Talk to me about neighborhoods in Philadelphia
July 2, 2015 8:03 AM Subscribe
I'm an east coaster who has been living in Minneapolis for five years. I'm thinking of moving to Philadelphia in a year or more. I haven't actually spent any time there in about ten years (when I did much hanging out with punks in collective houses in West Philly), so, talk to me about neighborhoods in philly?
Things I like: density, walkability, but room for gardening. Bikes bikes bikes! Nearby commerce, restaurants and cafes in walking distance, grocery coops, small bookstores, farmer's markets, parks, transit convenience, established communities, neighbors of many ages and backgrounds.
Demographically, me and sweetheart are a well-educated working-class couple in our early 30s. When we were younger we were hipsters in the way that most young people who live in cities are hipsters (you know what I'm getting at, right? "Other people are hipsters!" said everybody ever). Maybe we still are. Who knows.
Basically, we're looking for the neighborhoods that have a lot of great stuff but without the breathless pace of gentrification and its accompanying woes.
Chime in with your thoughts? Thanks!
Things I like: density, walkability, but room for gardening. Bikes bikes bikes! Nearby commerce, restaurants and cafes in walking distance, grocery coops, small bookstores, farmer's markets, parks, transit convenience, established communities, neighbors of many ages and backgrounds.
Demographically, me and sweetheart are a well-educated working-class couple in our early 30s. When we were younger we were hipsters in the way that most young people who live in cities are hipsters (you know what I'm getting at, right? "Other people are hipsters!" said everybody ever). Maybe we still are. Who knows.
Basically, we're looking for the neighborhoods that have a lot of great stuff but without the breathless pace of gentrification and its accompanying woes.
Chime in with your thoughts? Thanks!
Best answer: I go to acupuncture in South Philly, and 12th/11th/10th street south of South street is where I would want to live if it weren't for the fact my partner needs to keep his kid in a fancy public school slightly north of Philly. It reminds me of Park Slope before Park Slope became horribly gentrified. There's all sorts of cool restaurants/cafes.
Lots of bike lanes in South Philly too.
I've heard good things about the areas around the Art Museum and Mayununk.
University City bothers me to the extent that gentrification is breathless. Others may disagree.
posted by angrycat at 8:23 AM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Lots of bike lanes in South Philly too.
I've heard good things about the areas around the Art Museum and Mayununk.
University City bothers me to the extent that gentrification is breathless. Others may disagree.
posted by angrycat at 8:23 AM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: thanks! keep it coming. i think one of the things that would be helpful to me is to just hear a bunch of people talk about their perceptions of different neighborhoods. also, what you like about yours. and anything and everything you think might be related.
basically doing some wide-net data gathering, here.
posted by entropone at 8:27 AM on July 2, 2015
basically doing some wide-net data gathering, here.
posted by entropone at 8:27 AM on July 2, 2015
Best answer: My wife and I sound basically like you (mid-30s ex-/maybe still are? hipsters) and we live in the Fishtown neighborhood, which has changed a lot in the 8+ years we've been here but which we still really like. It has decent walkability (very accessible to public transit) though we're lacking in retail that's not just bars/restaurants. It is definitely gentrifying a lot, which gets annoying but which is also helping to bring in that retail element that's lacking, so I deal with it (and know which bars to avoid on Friday/Saturday nights).
If you're looking to get more on the rising tide of things vs. a neighborhood like Fishtown, I'd recommend South Kensington, which is basically where Fishtown was 5 years ago - lots of new developments popping up and infill housing. The key with Kensington is that it is a BIG area and the parts closest to Fishtown/Northern Liberties are the ones that are really changing.
As kalimac says, though, Philly is gentrifying pretty rapidly across a wide swath of the city - places that even 9 years ago when I moved here I would not have walked at night are now having $450k homes built.
posted by zempf at 8:27 AM on July 2, 2015
If you're looking to get more on the rising tide of things vs. a neighborhood like Fishtown, I'd recommend South Kensington, which is basically where Fishtown was 5 years ago - lots of new developments popping up and infill housing. The key with Kensington is that it is a BIG area and the parts closest to Fishtown/Northern Liberties are the ones that are really changing.
As kalimac says, though, Philly is gentrifying pretty rapidly across a wide swath of the city - places that even 9 years ago when I moved here I would not have walked at night are now having $450k homes built.
posted by zempf at 8:27 AM on July 2, 2015
Best answer: We're in Fishtown now, and it's dense, walkable, full of cafes, and reasonably bike friendly. It's breathlessly gentrifying, though, and getting a side lot/vacant space to garden in may be difficult on a working class budget.
East Kensington and Port Richmond are probably cheaper, with East Kensington gentrifying faster than Port Richmond because of its proximity to NoLibs/the Market-El line, which allows for an easy commute into Center City.
(I'd actually say Fishtown is one of the few areas in the city where gentrification actually means more non-white people living in an area, rather than fewer. Traditionally, Fishtown is a working class white enclave with a history of racial tension/violence against the black and Puerto Rican communities nearby. My boss is a Latino man in 40's who remembers that getting off at the Berks subway stop back in the day meant throwing down his bookbag and running unless he wanted to get the shit kicked out of him by white boys.
These days, Mr. Machine and I are a mixed race couple on a block with a black family, an East Asian family, another mixed race couple, and a household with a Latino member. Everybody gets Indian food at the restaurant by the subway station, then has dessert at the ice cream/baklava stand across the street run by a Middle Eastern family.)
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:56 AM on July 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
East Kensington and Port Richmond are probably cheaper, with East Kensington gentrifying faster than Port Richmond because of its proximity to NoLibs/the Market-El line, which allows for an easy commute into Center City.
(I'd actually say Fishtown is one of the few areas in the city where gentrification actually means more non-white people living in an area, rather than fewer. Traditionally, Fishtown is a working class white enclave with a history of racial tension/violence against the black and Puerto Rican communities nearby. My boss is a Latino man in 40's who remembers that getting off at the Berks subway stop back in the day meant throwing down his bookbag and running unless he wanted to get the shit kicked out of him by white boys.
These days, Mr. Machine and I are a mixed race couple on a block with a black family, an East Asian family, another mixed race couple, and a household with a Latino member. Everybody gets Indian food at the restaurant by the subway station, then has dessert at the ice cream/baklava stand across the street run by a Middle Eastern family.)
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:56 AM on July 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I'll pitch near-South Philly (not really Center City, not really South Philly). Graduate Hospital (Broad to Grays Ferry, South to Washington) was this neighborhood 5 years ago. Now it's gone south of Washington into Point Breeze. I live in the Grays Ferry neighborhood (west of 25th, south of Washington) and think it's great, but there's not much around in the way of businesses or restaurants. For anything like what you're talking about, I have to go up to Grad Hosp or above South Street to get most places. Still totally walkable, even more bikeable, and with big multi-use complexes going up at places like 24th and Washington, only going to become more so. Washington west of Broad is a contractor supply enclave, but I wouldn't be surprised if that changes over the next 5-10 years.
Of course, I work at Penn, so being 10 minutes away on a bike is a huge plus. If not, I'd investigate West Moyamensing, West Passyunk/Girard Estates, East Passyunk, Fishtown, or Kensington. EP and Fishtown in particular are attracting the kinds of businesses you're talking about very rapidly.
posted by supercres at 9:02 AM on July 2, 2015
Of course, I work at Penn, so being 10 minutes away on a bike is a huge plus. If not, I'd investigate West Moyamensing, West Passyunk/Girard Estates, East Passyunk, Fishtown, or Kensington. EP and Fishtown in particular are attracting the kinds of businesses you're talking about very rapidly.
posted by supercres at 9:02 AM on July 2, 2015
Best answer: East Falls, while we are not SUPER dense, we are a 5 mile bike ride along Kelly Drive to downtown, SUPER close (1 mile walk) to Forbidden Drive and bike paths, hiking, horseback riding and dog beaches. You're ON the valley forge bike path that you can take from Center City all the way down to Valley Forge. We have a yard that our dog runs around in, trees, and cool old buildings. We're close to Manayunk with bars and restaurants if you want local flair (plus Falls Tap Room has a great beer selection).
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 9:22 AM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 9:22 AM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: For grocery coops, independent shops, and artisanal feel - Chestnut Hill is a short drive from East Falls - or you could look at the Chestnut Hill area.
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 9:26 AM on July 2, 2015
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 9:26 AM on July 2, 2015
Best answer: We live in Fairmount (lower, close to Fairmount Ave and the museums). We have density and walkability, but room for gardening may vary. Many bikes (and the bike share seems to have really taken off). Commerce, restaurants and cafes, check. No co-op, but a small grocery store and Whole Foods a half-mile away, a few bookstores (or one?), farmer's market and parks right at our feet.
It's a very established neighborhood, with a lot of older folks but a lot of young couples and families. We are a lawyer and an accountant with a toddler and two dogs and our neighbor on one side is a middle-aged single woman (with an awesome Great Dane) and on the other side a guy who has lived there since 1972, lived there with his wife and child for a while, ran an opera company for 25+ years, then retired and now lives there with his artist husband. Around the corner is several similar house-by-house arrangements, with young kids, couples and older folks. Mostly white, though.
We both work in center city and walk to work and have only one car. However, if you do have to drive to work (or anywhere on a regular basis), parking can be a bitch. During the warm months and even some cold days, there is SOMETHING going on on the weekend at the Art Museum or around there (5Ks, crew races, Made In America, etc. etc.) and the influx of cars can be pretty awful (we don't move our car on summer/spring weekend mornings). So, if that doesn't work for you, get a parking spot!
posted by Pax at 10:17 AM on July 2, 2015
It's a very established neighborhood, with a lot of older folks but a lot of young couples and families. We are a lawyer and an accountant with a toddler and two dogs and our neighbor on one side is a middle-aged single woman (with an awesome Great Dane) and on the other side a guy who has lived there since 1972, lived there with his wife and child for a while, ran an opera company for 25+ years, then retired and now lives there with his artist husband. Around the corner is several similar house-by-house arrangements, with young kids, couples and older folks. Mostly white, though.
We both work in center city and walk to work and have only one car. However, if you do have to drive to work (or anywhere on a regular basis), parking can be a bitch. During the warm months and even some cold days, there is SOMETHING going on on the weekend at the Art Museum or around there (5Ks, crew races, Made In America, etc. etc.) and the influx of cars can be pretty awful (we don't move our car on summer/spring weekend mornings). So, if that doesn't work for you, get a parking spot!
posted by Pax at 10:17 AM on July 2, 2015
Best answer: You said you were in West Philly ten years ago--I don't know how different it is now than how it was then, but I live there now, in the Spruce Hill area, and recommend it highly, especially based on your criteria. It's got pretty much everything you're looking for. It's super walkable and bikeable (I bike to work in CC almost every day), and fairly diverse in terms of demographics and age groups; students, young couples with kids, a few older folks, middle-class, working-class, and a notable West African population. Transit is great--the area is pretty well-served by trolley, bus, and the el. There's a bunch of great bookstores within walking/biking distance (Bindlestiff Books, A House of Our Own, The Last Word, and Penn Book Center). Clark Park is great, and there's a farmers market there every Thursday evening and Saturday morning where you can get good stuff.
The thing I like best about the area is that it feels a bit roomier than the rest of the city--not quite the suburbs, but I'm from a small town and still feel like I can breathe here. It helps that there are a lot of trees, and that so many of the houses here are so gorgeous.
posted by zchyrs at 11:32 AM on July 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
The thing I like best about the area is that it feels a bit roomier than the rest of the city--not quite the suburbs, but I'm from a small town and still feel like I can breathe here. It helps that there are a lot of trees, and that so many of the houses here are so gorgeous.
posted by zchyrs at 11:32 AM on July 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
Best answer: West Phila around 40-00 thru 52-00 blocks of Baltimore Ave. Diverse, farm market coop-y, hipster, family oriented, but in an alterna-family kind of way (LGBQT couples with kids), bikes around, houses with some groundspace for a small garden, and places to eat.
posted by WeekendJen at 2:40 PM on July 2, 2015
posted by WeekendJen at 2:40 PM on July 2, 2015
Best answer: I've been in Philly for about three years now and bounced around between a bunch of different neighborhoods. Nthing that gentrification is pretty much everywhere. Here's how I would assess the pros and cons of the main places I've been.
West Philly, just south of Baltimore Ave.
Pros: Beautiful tree lined streets that are wide enough that biking is a dream. Clark Park, with its year-round farmer's market, Shakespeare in the Park during summers, and million little festivals throughout the year. (I remember the weekend I stumbled across the pagan festival and was so pleased that I live in a city that can support such a thing.) Neat neighborhood activist history, with various leftover bits from older groups (the food co-op there was originally started by a radical Quaker collective network!) and some great current efforts as well. So much good food. Big beautiful old Victorian houses. Good mix of young people and older families, very much a small town within a big city vibe.
Cons: Those big beautiful old Victorian houses might be rotting inside and owned by slumlords; vet your potential housing closely. More than anywhere else I've lived, has a distinctive neighborhood vibe that's hard to describe...hippieish, maybe? I liked it a lot, but I've known people who moved out because they weren't feeling it. Friends from other parts of the city may not want to come to you, and you may find yourself drawn into a West Philly bubble and never leaving except for work.
Francisville-ish (technically I was slightly west of Francisville; no one can actually tell me quite what my neighborhood was called, but Francisville is close enough.)
Pros: Great subway access. One of my favorite little not-quite-dive bars ever. Super cheap rent. Easy access to the art museum, Schuylkill River trail, and Fairmount Park by bike. Little gardens popping up in lots of places.
Cons: Limited shopping and restaurant options in the neighborhood itself. (More choices available in Fairmount, Brewerytown, Center City, and Northern Liberties, all of which are easily accessible by at least one of foot, bike, or public transit.) Less greenery, unless you're closer to the western edge. Grocery options are Whole Foods and a store that caters heavily to Temple students and jacks up their prices accordingly. Decent possibility of noisy Temple students as neighbors.
South Philly, southeast edge of what you could either call Newbold or Point Breeze(my current home)
Pros: Most racially diverse neighborhood I've lived in so far. Amazing, cheap food from all different regions of the world. (Ever had Indonesian food? I hadn't until I moved here, now the Indonesian carry-out is one of my go to places to take visitors.) The most quintessentially "urban" neighborhood I've lived in--something about the dense rowhouses and people sitting out on their stoops on summer nights. Downhill bike ride home from anywhere in the city. Feels the most walkable of all the areas I've lived in. Easy subway access.
Cons: Ridiculous, soap-opera contentious gentrification issues; I can't even begin to summarize the antics of Ori Feibush vs the Point Breeze Organizing Committee. Main business strip on Passyunk Ave is so twee as to almost be a hipster parody of itself. (There is a bakery for dogs, if that gives you any indication. That said, there's also good coffee and a very well-stocked hardware store.) Grittier looking and more treeless than other places, though that has its own charm. Roads are narrow enough that biking can be a pain in the ass until you hit Center City, 1.5-2 miles to the north.
I very much like the physical space of my current apartment and don't want to move now for logistical reasons, but if my landlady were to come up to me and say I needed to leave in a month, I'd probably go back to West Philly.
Good luck finding a place, and feel free to memail me with questions!
posted by ActionPopulated at 3:53 PM on July 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
West Philly, just south of Baltimore Ave.
Pros: Beautiful tree lined streets that are wide enough that biking is a dream. Clark Park, with its year-round farmer's market, Shakespeare in the Park during summers, and million little festivals throughout the year. (I remember the weekend I stumbled across the pagan festival and was so pleased that I live in a city that can support such a thing.) Neat neighborhood activist history, with various leftover bits from older groups (the food co-op there was originally started by a radical Quaker collective network!) and some great current efforts as well. So much good food. Big beautiful old Victorian houses. Good mix of young people and older families, very much a small town within a big city vibe.
Cons: Those big beautiful old Victorian houses might be rotting inside and owned by slumlords; vet your potential housing closely. More than anywhere else I've lived, has a distinctive neighborhood vibe that's hard to describe...hippieish, maybe? I liked it a lot, but I've known people who moved out because they weren't feeling it. Friends from other parts of the city may not want to come to you, and you may find yourself drawn into a West Philly bubble and never leaving except for work.
Francisville-ish (technically I was slightly west of Francisville; no one can actually tell me quite what my neighborhood was called, but Francisville is close enough.)
Pros: Great subway access. One of my favorite little not-quite-dive bars ever. Super cheap rent. Easy access to the art museum, Schuylkill River trail, and Fairmount Park by bike. Little gardens popping up in lots of places.
Cons: Limited shopping and restaurant options in the neighborhood itself. (More choices available in Fairmount, Brewerytown, Center City, and Northern Liberties, all of which are easily accessible by at least one of foot, bike, or public transit.) Less greenery, unless you're closer to the western edge. Grocery options are Whole Foods and a store that caters heavily to Temple students and jacks up their prices accordingly. Decent possibility of noisy Temple students as neighbors.
South Philly, southeast edge of what you could either call Newbold or Point Breeze(my current home)
Pros: Most racially diverse neighborhood I've lived in so far. Amazing, cheap food from all different regions of the world. (Ever had Indonesian food? I hadn't until I moved here, now the Indonesian carry-out is one of my go to places to take visitors.) The most quintessentially "urban" neighborhood I've lived in--something about the dense rowhouses and people sitting out on their stoops on summer nights. Downhill bike ride home from anywhere in the city. Feels the most walkable of all the areas I've lived in. Easy subway access.
Cons: Ridiculous, soap-opera contentious gentrification issues; I can't even begin to summarize the antics of Ori Feibush vs the Point Breeze Organizing Committee. Main business strip on Passyunk Ave is so twee as to almost be a hipster parody of itself. (There is a bakery for dogs, if that gives you any indication. That said, there's also good coffee and a very well-stocked hardware store.) Grittier looking and more treeless than other places, though that has its own charm. Roads are narrow enough that biking can be a pain in the ass until you hit Center City, 1.5-2 miles to the north.
I very much like the physical space of my current apartment and don't want to move now for logistical reasons, but if my landlady were to come up to me and say I needed to leave in a month, I'd probably go back to West Philly.
Good luck finding a place, and feel free to memail me with questions!
posted by ActionPopulated at 3:53 PM on July 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
Best answer: I also lived probably where ActionPopulated lived and still own a condo there - not quite Fairmount, not quite Francisville, not quite Spring Garden. Pluses being diversity, closer to subway, better parking, Osteria, Kellianne's and Alla Spina (which I personally don't like, being a vegetarian). Minuses being crack availability, not as much green space and trees, and a more transient population.
posted by Pax at 4:20 PM on July 2, 2015
posted by Pax at 4:20 PM on July 2, 2015
I don't know the neighborhoods but my daughter lived on South Farragut St and Pine St for a few years. That's on the west edge of the area dominated by Penn. She did not have a car, and did use a bicycle as well as public transportation. Since the area is close enough to the University to be of interest to undergraduates and grad students, there is a fair amount of turnover, and it shouldn't be too hard to find something that's available now through the beginning of the next semester.
I wouldn't go any farther west though.
posted by SemiSalt at 5:14 PM on July 2, 2015
I wouldn't go any farther west though.
posted by SemiSalt at 5:14 PM on July 2, 2015
Best answer: Disclaimer: I know nothing about West Philly, so I'm leaving the entire area out.
You should look at the following areas:
1. Anything south of Washington. East of Broad is more expensive, but has less crime. Prices decrease the farther you get away from the Broad St line. Pennsport and Gray's Ferry
2. Manayunk / Roxborough: Cheap, not much crime, lots of space for your money. More bars/restaurants/etc the closer you get to Main St (and the rail line). Bonus: Lot of bike trails and parks. Fairly far from Center City, though.
3. Art Museum / Fairmount: Kind of pricey, but fits most of your criteria. Very close to center city and Penn / Drexel if you happen to work at either.
4. Fishtown / Northern Liberties: Stereotypically where the Philly "Hipsters" tend to live. Priced accordingly. Lots, LOTS, of bikes - which is good b/c public transit is "meh".
posted by NYC-BB at 9:52 AM on July 3, 2015
You should look at the following areas:
1. Anything south of Washington. East of Broad is more expensive, but has less crime. Prices decrease the farther you get away from the Broad St line. Pennsport and Gray's Ferry
2. Manayunk / Roxborough: Cheap, not much crime, lots of space for your money. More bars/restaurants/etc the closer you get to Main St (and the rail line). Bonus: Lot of bike trails and parks. Fairly far from Center City, though.
3. Art Museum / Fairmount: Kind of pricey, but fits most of your criteria. Very close to center city and Penn / Drexel if you happen to work at either.
4. Fishtown / Northern Liberties: Stereotypically where the Philly "Hipsters" tend to live. Priced accordingly. Lots, LOTS, of bikes - which is good b/c public transit is "meh".
posted by NYC-BB at 9:52 AM on July 3, 2015
Best answer: Looks like you've gotten a lot of great advice, but just wanted to chime in and say that I think West Philly still fits all your interests perfectly! In fact, I really can't imagine anyplace I've been that checks off all your boxes better. Live near Baltimore and you won't go wrong--up by Clark Park is a little fancier these days, but has the best farmers' market and transit access; down by 50th Street you can hang out at Satellite Cafe and stop by the bike shop next door.
posted by ferret branca at 7:54 PM on July 3, 2015
posted by ferret branca at 7:54 PM on July 3, 2015
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You might also like Olde Kensington/East Kensington, which is trying to stay balanced and not become the next NoLibs in a bad way. It's suddenly really blossoming and promises to be someplace really special. Fishtown is also awesome in a lot of ways, but, again, gentrification and starting to become exclusively young white hipsterville.
posted by kalimac at 8:22 AM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]