How do I get what I want (hair edition)?
June 2, 2015 7:32 AM
Since moving to a new part of the country, I can't seem to get the haircut I want. How do I communicate exactly what I want, despite reluctance from my stylist? Snowfalkes ahead.
I have longish (past shoulder length) hair, very heavy, very thick, but fine in texture. It is not chemically altered in any way. It has a weird cowlick in the middle-back and is also weirdly kinky-curly in the back and wavy/straight in the front. This is annoying.
In the past, I've had lots of luck with a very layered and thinned out cut. Lots of long layers and then thinned with a razor. I can wash this cut and dry it in a bun and have nice waves for days. This is what I want. I shower at the gym, leave with wet hair and I have a toddler. I have no time to fix anything, not even a little bit.
Since moving to south Florida, I've seen three stylists, all of whom immediately suggested a keratin treatment and then refused to cut my hair the way I want. They all have done a straight shoulder-length cut, no layers and no thinning. The last one conceded and cut a few "face-framing" layers (translation: annoying pieces that have no purpose and won't stay in my ponytail). I've deferred to them because I assume there's something I don't know about the weather here or my hair in general or whatever, but the last cut was horrible (I feel terminally ugly every single day). It is poufy and frizzy and nothing lies (lays?) right and I hate it passionately.
How do I make sure I get the cut I want (which I always describe as I did above)? I've taken in pictures, I've communicated exactly (long layers throughout, thinned out with a razor, going to wear it wavy) what I want. Is this a culture thing (South Florida being different than the South and the Midwest, which is my background)? A weather thing? A lack of forcefulness on my part (I'm not good at being insistent)? Or is that cut really not a good cut for my type of hair?
TL;DR
My hair is heavy and curly/wavy. I want layers and thinned out hair. No one seems to be willing to do this. How do I make them do it, despite reluctance?
I have longish (past shoulder length) hair, very heavy, very thick, but fine in texture. It is not chemically altered in any way. It has a weird cowlick in the middle-back and is also weirdly kinky-curly in the back and wavy/straight in the front. This is annoying.
In the past, I've had lots of luck with a very layered and thinned out cut. Lots of long layers and then thinned with a razor. I can wash this cut and dry it in a bun and have nice waves for days. This is what I want. I shower at the gym, leave with wet hair and I have a toddler. I have no time to fix anything, not even a little bit.
Since moving to south Florida, I've seen three stylists, all of whom immediately suggested a keratin treatment and then refused to cut my hair the way I want. They all have done a straight shoulder-length cut, no layers and no thinning. The last one conceded and cut a few "face-framing" layers (translation: annoying pieces that have no purpose and won't stay in my ponytail). I've deferred to them because I assume there's something I don't know about the weather here or my hair in general or whatever, but the last cut was horrible (I feel terminally ugly every single day). It is poufy and frizzy and nothing lies (lays?) right and I hate it passionately.
How do I make sure I get the cut I want (which I always describe as I did above)? I've taken in pictures, I've communicated exactly (long layers throughout, thinned out with a razor, going to wear it wavy) what I want. Is this a culture thing (South Florida being different than the South and the Midwest, which is my background)? A weather thing? A lack of forcefulness on my part (I'm not good at being insistent)? Or is that cut really not a good cut for my type of hair?
TL;DR
My hair is heavy and curly/wavy. I want layers and thinned out hair. No one seems to be willing to do this. How do I make them do it, despite reluctance?
On Yelp, look for curly stylists or reviews by curly customers about good stylists. There's also a recommendation engine at naturallycurly.com though sometimes their info is many years out of date (which is why I've switched to Yelp to find them now).
You will probably not have luck with hardcore Deva- or Ouidad-trained stylists because they won't razor cut, but find those hairdressers that have curly/wavy customers who rave about them and go to them.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:39 AM on June 2, 2015
You will probably not have luck with hardcore Deva- or Ouidad-trained stylists because they won't razor cut, but find those hairdressers that have curly/wavy customers who rave about them and go to them.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:39 AM on June 2, 2015
Just by sitting in the chair, you effectively have squatters rights. Stylists finish what they do, then hand you a mirror for your approval - they are waiting for you to say "yes, that's fine", so don't say that, say "You didn't add layers around the sides and back" and "I need you to thin out the ends". Yes, I agree with other advice to keep trying new stylists until you find one who wants to do your style, but in the meantime, you do have the power to just sit there until they at least attempt to do what you ask for even if they aren't enthusiastic.
posted by aimedwander at 7:44 AM on June 2, 2015
posted by aimedwander at 7:44 AM on June 2, 2015
I might go back to the most recent stylist and say "I'm very unhappy with the cut you gave me last time, and I would like to try again. Please cut my hair the way I've always had it done, the way I asked for it last time." If they refuse then I don't really know what you can do other than just keep trying with new stylists. You need to be really insistent sometimes and it's super frustrating because it shouldn't have to be a stressful social conflict at all to have someone provide a specific paid service.
HOWEVER, as you may have noticed, South Florida is super humid, grotesquely moistly stickily humid, all the goddamn time. It's like living inside a jar of mosquito-filled jelly. It is possible that these hairdressers are looking at the fine texture of your hair and assuming that the cut you want would lead to severe frizzing in the damp weather. I know it can be awkward and embarrassing to have really simple requests denied, but maybe you could try asking why the next time a stylist refuses to give you the cut you want? Instead of being married to a specific cut which worked in the past, can you describe to them your ideal outcome from any haircut, and see if they have any suggestions on how to achieve that?
posted by poffin boffin at 7:57 AM on June 2, 2015
HOWEVER, as you may have noticed, South Florida is super humid, grotesquely moistly stickily humid, all the goddamn time. It's like living inside a jar of mosquito-filled jelly. It is possible that these hairdressers are looking at the fine texture of your hair and assuming that the cut you want would lead to severe frizzing in the damp weather. I know it can be awkward and embarrassing to have really simple requests denied, but maybe you could try asking why the next time a stylist refuses to give you the cut you want? Instead of being married to a specific cut which worked in the past, can you describe to them your ideal outcome from any haircut, and see if they have any suggestions on how to achieve that?
posted by poffin boffin at 7:57 AM on June 2, 2015
How insistent are you regarding getting your hair thinned out? Towards the end of the cut are you asking them to thin your hair out more? If they are stubbornly refusing then you need to find a new hairstylist. I had this experience once and I became that angry screeching woman in the hair salon. The stylist made a sour face and "thinned it out" with two or three snips. Yep--never going back there again.
Ideally, you should find a stylist who should know they need to thin your hair out based on the texture and volume of your hair. Otherwise you'll be insisting on having your hair thinned out every time you get a haircut and that is tiresome. If they don't have that intuition, it most likely means they're not a skilled hairstylist IMO.
If at all possible, look up reviews online before scheduling. Not sure how well used Yelp is in South Florida.
posted by joeyjoejoejr at 8:02 AM on June 2, 2015
Ideally, you should find a stylist who should know they need to thin your hair out based on the texture and volume of your hair. Otherwise you'll be insisting on having your hair thinned out every time you get a haircut and that is tiresome. If they don't have that intuition, it most likely means they're not a skilled hairstylist IMO.
If at all possible, look up reviews online before scheduling. Not sure how well used Yelp is in South Florida.
posted by joeyjoejoejr at 8:02 AM on June 2, 2015
In my experience (in NYC), there are some stylists who just will. not. use. a. razor (mostly lower end salons). Then there are others who won't not use a razor (Arrojo studio comes to mind). It seems to be a philosophical choice among stylists (maybe stylists here will disagree).
I'd seek out a salon that specially advertises, or Yelp reviews state, that it does razoring (or whatever it's called). When you call to book an appointment, ask specifically if the stylist is experienced with razoring/thinning/layering. If a stylist advertises that they've trained or worked with Nick Arrojo, they probably have razor experience.
Don't leave the chair until you're happy with your cut. If you get resistance, you can say something like "I know this might be unusual, but I've tried several other styles this past year and I want to give this a try as well" or ask them to explain their reasoning for why they think it's a bad idea.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:03 AM on June 2, 2015
I'd seek out a salon that specially advertises, or Yelp reviews state, that it does razoring (or whatever it's called). When you call to book an appointment, ask specifically if the stylist is experienced with razoring/thinning/layering. If a stylist advertises that they've trained or worked with Nick Arrojo, they probably have razor experience.
Don't leave the chair until you're happy with your cut. If you get resistance, you can say something like "I know this might be unusual, but I've tried several other styles this past year and I want to give this a try as well" or ask them to explain their reasoning for why they think it's a bad idea.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:03 AM on June 2, 2015
Do you have a photo of yourself in the hairstyle you want? Take it with you.
I'm a guy with short hair. I've always noticed, however, that stylists are much more responsive to a photo of what you want rather than highly-subjective descriptions of what you want.
posted by John Borrowman at 8:07 AM on June 2, 2015
I'm a guy with short hair. I've always noticed, however, that stylists are much more responsive to a photo of what you want rather than highly-subjective descriptions of what you want.
posted by John Borrowman at 8:07 AM on June 2, 2015
Seconding bringing a photo of yourself or someone else with that haircut.
You could also try finding a stylist who trained at Bumble and bumble--all the stylists I've ever had who went through their training program basically used nothing but a razor ever. I think their website has a listing of where their affiliated salons are.
posted by The Elusive Architeuthis at 8:10 AM on June 2, 2015
You could also try finding a stylist who trained at Bumble and bumble--all the stylists I've ever had who went through their training program basically used nothing but a razor ever. I think their website has a listing of where their affiliated salons are.
posted by The Elusive Architeuthis at 8:10 AM on June 2, 2015
Is this a culture thing (South Florida being different than the South and the Midwest, which is my background)?
Maybe. I don't know if this is a wacky suggestion or not, but maybe look amongst the snowbirds for a stylist?
(This came to mind because of something totally anecdotal -- on a recent vacation I was chatting with a fantastic, sharp lady in her late 70s who had relocated from Atlanta to somewhere in Florida. She had had a long career as a hairdresser and was oohing over my haircut, laughingly noting she does do an awful lot of "old lady hair" since moving. I'm not suggesting that you track down this mysterious stranger who doesn't even live in Miami, just saying that there may be some solid old-school hairdressers who seriously know their cuts, but wouldn't be working any place trendy.)
posted by desuetude at 8:11 AM on June 2, 2015
Maybe. I don't know if this is a wacky suggestion or not, but maybe look amongst the snowbirds for a stylist?
(This came to mind because of something totally anecdotal -- on a recent vacation I was chatting with a fantastic, sharp lady in her late 70s who had relocated from Atlanta to somewhere in Florida. She had had a long career as a hairdresser and was oohing over my haircut, laughingly noting she does do an awful lot of "old lady hair" since moving. I'm not suggesting that you track down this mysterious stranger who doesn't even live in Miami, just saying that there may be some solid old-school hairdressers who seriously know their cuts, but wouldn't be working any place trendy.)
posted by desuetude at 8:11 AM on June 2, 2015
Is this salon anywhere near you? Here are some other Florida listings. I'd start there and then cross-check with Yelp reviews. (That's how I found my current stylist.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:21 AM on June 2, 2015
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:21 AM on June 2, 2015
I learned the way to find someone who can cut my hair was to ask who the best hairdresser for curly ethnic hair in the area was and then I went there and said no one believes me until they cut it wrong a few times because when it's cut well it's not apparent, but my hair is super willing to frizz and 'fro and I'd like it to stay more in the contained, thinned curls realm. And boom, hair whisperer.
posted by vegartanipla at 9:29 AM on June 2, 2015
posted by vegartanipla at 9:29 AM on June 2, 2015
OP has said they are already taking in photos of what they want, and it's not helping.
I have found that salons that are more punk/edgy/hipstery in clientele tend to be MUCH better at haircuts involving razoring techniques. I would scour Yelp (or equivalent) for salons that have people of that demographic as clients. Is there a neighborhood in your area where you might find such shops?
posted by joan_holloway at 9:32 AM on June 2, 2015
I have found that salons that are more punk/edgy/hipstery in clientele tend to be MUCH better at haircuts involving razoring techniques. I would scour Yelp (or equivalent) for salons that have people of that demographic as clients. Is there a neighborhood in your area where you might find such shops?
posted by joan_holloway at 9:32 AM on June 2, 2015
Our hair texture is pretty similar. I've stopped going to salons for reasons like you mention. I can't speak to razor thinning, but adding layers is really easy. I use the method detailed in this tutorial. This site has other DIY layering techniques.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:37 AM on June 2, 2015
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:37 AM on June 2, 2015
N-thing, more expensive or edgy salons and searching yelp for people who specialize in curly hair. I would not recommend sitting in a chair until the stylist does what you want--my less charitable interpretation of these stylists' refusal to do what you want is that they have no idea how to do that and know they'll butcher your hair completely if they try.
posted by purple_bird at 9:39 AM on June 2, 2015
posted by purple_bird at 9:39 AM on June 2, 2015
You might also have luck searching for salons that carry or have trained stylists on specific curly hair products, like this one: http://www.devacurl.com/salon-stylist-search.html
posted by purple_bird at 9:44 AM on June 2, 2015
posted by purple_bird at 9:44 AM on June 2, 2015
Ya know if someone wouldn't cut my hair the way I asked after I clearly described what I wanted, I would never try to force them to do it. This could end badly. If they can't see the reason to apply a certain cut to your hair, this could indicate that they don't know how to do it properly. I would not push it. Do not go back to someone who messed up your hair. If they couldn't get it right the first time, there is no reason to expect they would get it right the second.
posted by RoadScholar at 10:01 AM on June 2, 2015
posted by RoadScholar at 10:01 AM on June 2, 2015
I always look for an Aveda salon. I like the training that their people have to have to work. If your stylist is uncomfortable giving you the cut that you want then don't force him or her. Go to a different stylist. The last thing that you want is for someone to be doing it for the first time on your head. Look for an older stylist and ask for the Rachel. I have your hair and the cut you want (except for the razor part) and I always just joke that I want an '80s cut. You are right to avoid those fringe pieces around your face- they don't work in humid weather. I'm in Louisiana, btw.
If you see someone with a great cut, ask them where they go. Seriously. Approaching strangers with great hair could be your saving grace.
posted by myselfasme at 10:05 AM on June 2, 2015
If you see someone with a great cut, ask them where they go. Seriously. Approaching strangers with great hair could be your saving grace.
posted by myselfasme at 10:05 AM on June 2, 2015
Call your old stylist in your old city and tell them about the problem, and ask them to describe in specific hair stylist lingo what you want. (Maybe you already did that? Can't tell.) Write it down.
Go to new stylist at nice salon for a "consultation" before your cut and forcefully tell them about the problem. Do not defer to their judgment. Don't let them cut it unless they agree to try to replicate the cut you want.
Repeat until someone agrees.
posted by amaire at 12:16 PM on June 2, 2015
Go to new stylist at nice salon for a "consultation" before your cut and forcefully tell them about the problem. Do not defer to their judgment. Don't let them cut it unless they agree to try to replicate the cut you want.
Repeat until someone agrees.
posted by amaire at 12:16 PM on June 2, 2015
For what it's worth I think I have similar hair and it took me forever to figure out how to get the cut I want. Don't second-guess yourself - stylists aren't geniuses and they don't know more about your hair than you do, especially if it's not incredibly flat and straight. I have never had anyone refuse to thin, but they always would refuse to go far enough.
These are my tips:
Keep shopping around, and concentrate on more expensive and high-end places and senior stylists.
Act confident that you know what you want - they're afraid of making you unhappy overall, so they're not going to do something they think will make you unhappy. You have to convince them it's not going to make you unhappy, and to do that you have to sound happy, upbeat and utterly convinced that you're right. Like a happy truck full of rainbows.
Basically what I had to do was find a stylist who seemed to get it, then go back several times until she felt comfortable enough to do as much thinning as I wanted.
posted by bleep at 1:39 PM on June 2, 2015
These are my tips:
Keep shopping around, and concentrate on more expensive and high-end places and senior stylists.
Act confident that you know what you want - they're afraid of making you unhappy overall, so they're not going to do something they think will make you unhappy. You have to convince them it's not going to make you unhappy, and to do that you have to sound happy, upbeat and utterly convinced that you're right. Like a happy truck full of rainbows.
Basically what I had to do was find a stylist who seemed to get it, then go back several times until she felt comfortable enough to do as much thinning as I wanted.
posted by bleep at 1:39 PM on June 2, 2015
Definitely try the most hipster-y salon you can find- I finally did that in my town after going through a few Aveda places and random stylists at other salons and got the best haircut I've had since I lived in my last city.
I also read Yelp reviews and made sure to get an appointment with a stylist who had been at the salon for a while- a salon with great reviews may hire a lackluster new stylist and you can get caught in the training period, or the time before they leave because they're not great.
posted by MadamM at 2:05 PM on June 2, 2015
I also read Yelp reviews and made sure to get an appointment with a stylist who had been at the salon for a while- a salon with great reviews may hire a lackluster new stylist and you can get caught in the training period, or the time before they leave because they're not great.
posted by MadamM at 2:05 PM on June 2, 2015
I moved in the last year and finding a new hair stylist was tough. I have thick, wavy, frizzy grey hair. It has to be thinned or I become bozo. I went to a recommended hipster hair salon with a description of what I wanted and came out with a bob.. I tried to like it but it was just wrong, very wrong.
So I started looking for women with hair like mine that looked well cut. That is how I found my new stylist.
posted by cairnoflore at 4:14 PM on June 2, 2015
So I started looking for women with hair like mine that looked well cut. That is how I found my new stylist.
posted by cairnoflore at 4:14 PM on June 2, 2015
All good salons will do consultations (sometimes for free) before your cut. Go in, explain in detail what you want, and point-blank ask the stylist is he/she is wiling to cut your hair like that. If they seem to balk or hesitate AT ALL from saying "yes, of course", or feed you some line about how they know how to cut hair and don't like to do cuts like that, then leave and go find another salon to get a consultation from until you find one who gets it.
You may not be a hairdresser, but you've lived with your hair longer than anyone, and you have every right to get the cut you want. Once you find the stylist who cooperates, stick to them like glue! They are rare gems.
posted by ananci at 8:55 PM on June 2, 2015
You may not be a hairdresser, but you've lived with your hair longer than anyone, and you have every right to get the cut you want. Once you find the stylist who cooperates, stick to them like glue! They are rare gems.
posted by ananci at 8:55 PM on June 2, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by easter queen at 7:38 AM on June 2, 2015