Plus Size Androgyny?
April 15, 2015 1:03 AM Subscribe
So, I'm a mid-30s genderfluid person who would like to start dressing in a more masculine to androgynous manner in a business casual workplace. Complicating factors? I've got an aggressively female body, short with hips and boobs that can't really be minimized, plus I am a fattie (US size 20/22) and slowly shrinking). So what the hell do I do with that?
I have tried some cursory searching. A lot of time that takes me to Tumblr, which tends to showcase fun looks that are also not exactly work appropriate for the socially conservative area of the US that I live in. I do have a very LGBT-friendly workplace, but at the same time it's an office. Back to the fashion - if it's not punk, it's dapper, and I feel like that look would either require binding (ow) or result in major shirt gapping (ew) and require a short haircut, when I am not a person with a face friendly to pixie cuts.
So. Any ideas? Blogs, resources, retailers, search terms? Bonus points for budget-friendly tips, though at this point I will take anything.
I have tried some cursory searching. A lot of time that takes me to Tumblr, which tends to showcase fun looks that are also not exactly work appropriate for the socially conservative area of the US that I live in. I do have a very LGBT-friendly workplace, but at the same time it's an office. Back to the fashion - if it's not punk, it's dapper, and I feel like that look would either require binding (ow) or result in major shirt gapping (ew) and require a short haircut, when I am not a person with a face friendly to pixie cuts.
So. Any ideas? Blogs, resources, retailers, search terms? Bonus points for budget-friendly tips, though at this point I will take anything.
Best answer: How would you feel about wearing clothing cut to fit an aggressively female shape, rather than gloss over it? It seems like you're trying to exactly NOT do that, but just to be clear - are you?
Do you have a very defined waist relative to your hips and boobs? It sounds like it, but again I need to clarify that too. If you have a narrow waist below big boobs the best shirt is fitted up to the bustline and loosening over the bust. Never wear anything with details that add bulk over the bust in any way.
As long as you stick to button-up shirts and dress pants with good leather dress shoes, in neutral colours, a more masculine/androgynous look should be 100% correct at the office and can be adjusted to any social situation.
I have a feeling though that, at least to begin with, you might be best off sticking to clothing that is moulded to fit your curves while being androgynous/masculine in every way but the cut. I think you might be fighting an uphill battle otherwise. Once you get a better idea of your preferences a tailor might be able to help you, but you probably don't want to spend that much upfront.
fashioninfographics is a tumblr blog that breaks down the principles of men's clothing in a way you will probably find helpful.
A rare and expensive, but essential, book on the subject is The Triumph Of Individual Style. Do everything you can to lay your hands on it.
posted by tel3path at 2:09 AM on April 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
Do you have a very defined waist relative to your hips and boobs? It sounds like it, but again I need to clarify that too. If you have a narrow waist below big boobs the best shirt is fitted up to the bustline and loosening over the bust. Never wear anything with details that add bulk over the bust in any way.
As long as you stick to button-up shirts and dress pants with good leather dress shoes, in neutral colours, a more masculine/androgynous look should be 100% correct at the office and can be adjusted to any social situation.
I have a feeling though that, at least to begin with, you might be best off sticking to clothing that is moulded to fit your curves while being androgynous/masculine in every way but the cut. I think you might be fighting an uphill battle otherwise. Once you get a better idea of your preferences a tailor might be able to help you, but you probably don't want to spend that much upfront.
fashioninfographics is a tumblr blog that breaks down the principles of men's clothing in a way you will probably find helpful.
A rare and expensive, but essential, book on the subject is The Triumph Of Individual Style. Do everything you can to lay your hands on it.
posted by tel3path at 2:09 AM on April 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Up until now I have been shopping in stores that cater to women - Lane Bryant mostly because I am lazy and have generally been unenthusiastic about clothes for about a decade. Tees and shapeless tops have been a large part of my wardrobe, but I want to change that because it just looks schlubby.
And yes, defined waist - my figure is hourglass sliding toward pear shaped.
posted by daikaisho at 2:46 AM on April 15, 2015
And yes, defined waist - my figure is hourglass sliding toward pear shaped.
posted by daikaisho at 2:46 AM on April 15, 2015
Best answer: Your description of your shape and aesthetic makes me think of Hannah Gadsby, an Australian comedian who leans a bit towards the "dapper" kind of style. Pic 1, Pic 2, Pic 3, Pic 4. In terms of what you were saying about gapping etc., I think you can see that it's not as tidy-looking on a curvy woman as it would be on someone who was thinner, but I still think Hannah rocks it. What do you think about an outfit like this? A top with a bit of stretch in it might be more comfortable and less gappy/awkward than a traditional shirt. Would that be too casual for your workplace (or too feminine looking for you)?
posted by Cheese Monster at 4:37 AM on April 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Cheese Monster at 4:37 AM on April 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
I agree with tel3path. Well-tailored clothing styled like menswear but made to fit your body will give you a masculine but not schlubby look.
posted by metasarah at 4:39 AM on April 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by metasarah at 4:39 AM on April 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
Best answer: I could have written this question (and have started to write this question over the last couple of weeks, more than once), down to us being of a size (I'm 5' 3"ish, 220 pounds, pear shaped, big rack, big ass). It's really frustrating, because a lot of masculine coded clothes are not cut for female-coded and shaped bodies. Button down shirts that fit my hips are huge over my chest, pants that fit my hips look like M.C. Hammer pants on my legs...
As far as chest minimization goes, my wife just does the sports bra all the time thing, and it flattens for her rather than uni-boobing (she goes masculine all the time). When I'm feeling masculine, I'll do a non-underwire bra (this one has been fairly comfy) and that will do a decent job of flattening without binding, as do sports bras.
As far as hair goes... anyone can wear short hair, seriously! I'm a big person, and I look amazing with short hair. It's been completely buzzed off, high and tight, pixie-ish... right now, it's a mess, because I've agreed to grow it out for my sister's wedding (that is a whole other story), but I'm aiming for a men's undercut. (I can post pictures later in you want, when it's not 730 in the morning and I don't have papers I need to grade). I can almost guarantee that with shorter hair, you will feel 100% more masculine/genderqueer, depending on the day. It's just hair, it grows back, and there's nothing wrong with trying it, right? :)
Casual clothes are easy, and I'm lucky to have a casual workplace (I'm a professor in the social sciences, so most days they're lucky that any of us show up wearing clothes. ;) ) Days I'm feeling more masculine, I can do the guy's1 button down over a t-shirt with baggier women's jeans (something like this, and that will do the trick. Guy's polo shirts are a wonder too, and actually fit (I got "sirred" the other day wearing a guy's polo shirt and gray straight leg khakis. By one of my students who's had me in class for months! I was so pleased.2) Guy's long sleeved thermal tops and cargos or baggy jeans make me read 100% more masculine, too.
More genderqueer days, guys slightly dressier v-neck t-shirts (like so and women's dress slacks make a good combination, as does the button down and jeans route over a babydoll tshirts.
I wear a lot of Old Navy, Target, and thrift stores. Thrift stores are great, because if something doesn't work on you, you weren't out much. On the other hand, finding stuff that fits takes a lot of patience. Then again, that happens at normal retailers for me too.
But dress clothes. Sigh. Dress clothes. I have not cracked the dress clothes nut. My wife is straight shaped, not pear shaped, and wears men's dress slacks, button ups, and ties from Banana Republic and JCrew with abandon. I sigh and scowl and wear a lot of knit tops, elastic waist skirts, and empire waist dresses when we need to dress up. And that's great, the days I'm feeling fem. The days I'm not, it makes for a really cranky Joyce. So maybe we'll get lucky and someone else will have the solution to masculine coded dress clothes for the curvy among us. Until then, I will continue to have those mornings when I put on 8 different outfits, nothing feels right, and I finally just get dressed in *something* because I have to get to work.
1. When I say 'guy's', note that anyone can wear 'guy's' clothes, not just bio men. I just get tired of typing out "masculine coded" after awhile.
2. Of course, misgendering is an issue (my wife, who wears masculine clothes all the time, gets misgendered a lot and it makes her very cranky. But getting sirred is not necessarily misgendering me, so I'm pleased when it happens).
posted by joycehealy at 4:46 AM on April 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
As far as chest minimization goes, my wife just does the sports bra all the time thing, and it flattens for her rather than uni-boobing (she goes masculine all the time). When I'm feeling masculine, I'll do a non-underwire bra (this one has been fairly comfy) and that will do a decent job of flattening without binding, as do sports bras.
As far as hair goes... anyone can wear short hair, seriously! I'm a big person, and I look amazing with short hair. It's been completely buzzed off, high and tight, pixie-ish... right now, it's a mess, because I've agreed to grow it out for my sister's wedding (that is a whole other story), but I'm aiming for a men's undercut. (I can post pictures later in you want, when it's not 730 in the morning and I don't have papers I need to grade). I can almost guarantee that with shorter hair, you will feel 100% more masculine/genderqueer, depending on the day. It's just hair, it grows back, and there's nothing wrong with trying it, right? :)
Casual clothes are easy, and I'm lucky to have a casual workplace (I'm a professor in the social sciences, so most days they're lucky that any of us show up wearing clothes. ;) ) Days I'm feeling more masculine, I can do the guy's1 button down over a t-shirt with baggier women's jeans (something like this, and that will do the trick. Guy's polo shirts are a wonder too, and actually fit (I got "sirred" the other day wearing a guy's polo shirt and gray straight leg khakis. By one of my students who's had me in class for months! I was so pleased.2) Guy's long sleeved thermal tops and cargos or baggy jeans make me read 100% more masculine, too.
More genderqueer days, guys slightly dressier v-neck t-shirts (like so and women's dress slacks make a good combination, as does the button down and jeans route over a babydoll tshirts.
I wear a lot of Old Navy, Target, and thrift stores. Thrift stores are great, because if something doesn't work on you, you weren't out much. On the other hand, finding stuff that fits takes a lot of patience. Then again, that happens at normal retailers for me too.
But dress clothes. Sigh. Dress clothes. I have not cracked the dress clothes nut. My wife is straight shaped, not pear shaped, and wears men's dress slacks, button ups, and ties from Banana Republic and JCrew with abandon. I sigh and scowl and wear a lot of knit tops, elastic waist skirts, and empire waist dresses when we need to dress up. And that's great, the days I'm feeling fem. The days I'm not, it makes for a really cranky Joyce. So maybe we'll get lucky and someone else will have the solution to masculine coded dress clothes for the curvy among us. Until then, I will continue to have those mornings when I put on 8 different outfits, nothing feels right, and I finally just get dressed in *something* because I have to get to work.
1. When I say 'guy's', note that anyone can wear 'guy's' clothes, not just bio men. I just get tired of typing out "masculine coded" after awhile.
2. Of course, misgendering is an issue (my wife, who wears masculine clothes all the time, gets misgendered a lot and it makes her very cranky. But getting sirred is not necessarily misgendering me, so I'm pleased when it happens).
posted by joycehealy at 4:46 AM on April 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
(and on preview - it took awhile to type out that answer - maybe the answer is paying for tailoring. Ugh.)
posted by joycehealy at 4:48 AM on April 15, 2015
posted by joycehealy at 4:48 AM on April 15, 2015
Best answer: When I saw your ask this post from Anita Dolce Vita on "Curvy Androgyny" came to mind but I'm not sure if the content meets your description of workplace appropriate. However, it ended with a Put This On video with Street Etiquette about how thrift well.
posted by radiocontrolled at 5:35 AM on April 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by radiocontrolled at 5:35 AM on April 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
+1 for tailoring. A lot of clothing manufacturers rely on fabrics with a lot of stretch to fake it, but that risks the gapping and pulling you're talking about, especially on curvier shapes. Heavier natural fabrics like cotton will hang much better ( a teensy bit of stretch is ok, but not like 20%) - but it definitely means committing to tailoring.
For tops - hacking men's shirts (which often have less stretch and are made of nicer fabric) might be an idea, except that for shirts to look crisp, they've got to fit nicely at the shoulders and lay flat against the body (so - those would either wind up tight around the hips or loose at the shoulders). What about having shirts custom-made (previously)?
For bottoms, probably easiest/cheapest to just go with dress trousers from your usual stores.
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:19 AM on April 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
For tops - hacking men's shirts (which often have less stretch and are made of nicer fabric) might be an idea, except that for shirts to look crisp, they've got to fit nicely at the shoulders and lay flat against the body (so - those would either wind up tight around the hips or loose at the shoulders). What about having shirts custom-made (previously)?
For bottoms, probably easiest/cheapest to just go with dress trousers from your usual stores.
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:19 AM on April 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Layering more shirts on top (tank top, undershirt, button-down, sweater/vest) can give you a more uniform chest, but is way more practical in colder weather. There are some less restrictive binders that allow breathing and movement more easily, though the downside is you don't usually get a completely 'flat' chest. Couple of suggestions: Underwork's F2M Binders MagiCotton (I wear these when I don't want to be too squished; still leaves a bit of a chest; sizing goes up to 3XL) and GC2b (recommended by a friend, haven't tried them).
I buy a fair amount of my clothing from the Old Navy men's section. Finding pants that fit is pretty easy (though sometimes I end up needing to hem--I'm not tall); the shirts I always have to try on. Make sure you try them on with whatever you end up using to minimize (bra/sports bra, layers, binder, etc) so you can be more certain of the fit. The clothes aren't the best quality, but they look decent enough for office wear. Also, they're cheap enough that when I change shape, replacing them doesn't hurt my wallet.
If you end up having trouble finding shirts that fit right, try Saint Harridan's. The shirts run $120-140 each, but the quality and fitting is superior to off the rack clothing.
A pair of basic slacks with a button-down shirt and a belt (ties the look together--match to your shoes) is a little dressier office-wear. I used that look a lot when I first started at my job because I read incredibly young and wanted to be taken more seriously. A slightly more casual look could be khakis with a polo shirt. Even if you don't bind or minimize your chest, those looks are still fairly neutral.
posted by carrioncomfort at 6:49 AM on April 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
I buy a fair amount of my clothing from the Old Navy men's section. Finding pants that fit is pretty easy (though sometimes I end up needing to hem--I'm not tall); the shirts I always have to try on. Make sure you try them on with whatever you end up using to minimize (bra/sports bra, layers, binder, etc) so you can be more certain of the fit. The clothes aren't the best quality, but they look decent enough for office wear. Also, they're cheap enough that when I change shape, replacing them doesn't hurt my wallet.
If you end up having trouble finding shirts that fit right, try Saint Harridan's. The shirts run $120-140 each, but the quality and fitting is superior to off the rack clothing.
A pair of basic slacks with a button-down shirt and a belt (ties the look together--match to your shoes) is a little dressier office-wear. I used that look a lot when I first started at my job because I read incredibly young and wanted to be taken more seriously. A slightly more casual look could be khakis with a polo shirt. Even if you don't bind or minimize your chest, those looks are still fairly neutral.
posted by carrioncomfort at 6:49 AM on April 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I've had a fair amount of personal experience with this dilemma too - and while tailoring is a great suggestion, it may not always be affordable? So personally, I mostly wear "women's" button-down shirts, usually with fairly constricting sports bras from companies like title nine to prevent gapping. (That particular company isn't cheap, but mine have lasted a long time, so I've gotten a lot of value out of them. And I find them really comfortable, unlike binding!) Vests are also very helpful, for balancing out how my figure looks (if I'm feeling a little dysphoric about my curves) and sometimes for balancing out gaps ... plus, they just make me feel really dapper. (I've had a lot of trouble finding vests I'm happy with, mostly at thrift stores, but it's been really worth it.)
I also really recommend thinking about accessories, which can add a masculine flair without being such a full-body struggle. Ties of all kinds, nice tie clips/pins and cufflinks (although finding shirts that will work with these can be tricky), hats, collar chains and brooches, a pocket watch, etc. I've recently discovered a nice selection of cotton ascots on etsy in a variety of appealing patterns, which don't feel too over-the-top or costume-y. (Etsy is generally my favorite place to go looking for accessories these days, although they're certainly not always cheap.)
There are certainly plenty of short hairstyles that aren't pixie cuts, although I also think long hair, especially pulled back, can fit well (and look really awesome) with masculine clothing styles. (The person who runs the idreamofdapper blog on tumblr often pulls this off really well, although I think it can be done in a less fancy and involved way!)
posted by thepigeonsknow at 6:50 AM on April 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
I also really recommend thinking about accessories, which can add a masculine flair without being such a full-body struggle. Ties of all kinds, nice tie clips/pins and cufflinks (although finding shirts that will work with these can be tricky), hats, collar chains and brooches, a pocket watch, etc. I've recently discovered a nice selection of cotton ascots on etsy in a variety of appealing patterns, which don't feel too over-the-top or costume-y. (Etsy is generally my favorite place to go looking for accessories these days, although they're certainly not always cheap.)
There are certainly plenty of short hairstyles that aren't pixie cuts, although I also think long hair, especially pulled back, can fit well (and look really awesome) with masculine clothing styles. (The person who runs the idreamofdapper blog on tumblr often pulls this off really well, although I think it can be done in a less fancy and involved way!)
posted by thepigeonsknow at 6:50 AM on April 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I love love love short hair on a bigger lady, a well-fitted button-down with a sweater vest over, and a bowtie. Dapper. Handsome. Sexy.
posted by fiercecupcake at 7:01 AM on April 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by fiercecupcake at 7:01 AM on April 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
Everyone in this thread is awesome. :)
Something I can't believe I forgot this morning - sometimes dressing from the inside out will help you feel better, even if you're not outwardly presenting as more queer. Boxer briefs fit curvy people and are hella comfy (I just get Old Navy Fruit of the Loom, they're super comfy and last forever). Boxer briefs and skirts are quite possibly the most comfortable things to wear ever.
posted by joycehealy at 7:33 AM on April 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
Something I can't believe I forgot this morning - sometimes dressing from the inside out will help you feel better, even if you're not outwardly presenting as more queer. Boxer briefs fit curvy people and are hella comfy (I just get Old Navy Fruit of the Loom, they're super comfy and last forever). Boxer briefs and skirts are quite possibly the most comfortable things to wear ever.
posted by joycehealy at 7:33 AM on April 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Wow! I did not expect as many answers as I have received so far - y'all are awesome! I'm actually excited to go out and start shopping now.
One more question that I forgot to ask... What about makeup? Do you find that there's still an expectation for female bodied individuals to wear it in a business setting even when presenting as masculine?
posted by daikaisho at 7:47 AM on April 15, 2015
One more question that I forgot to ask... What about makeup? Do you find that there's still an expectation for female bodied individuals to wear it in a business setting even when presenting as masculine?
posted by daikaisho at 7:47 AM on April 15, 2015
Best answer: I have a friend who is genderqueer and she has your body type. She wears mostly men's clothing, which ends up looking kind of shapeless on her if you're aiming for a feminine-coded aesthetic, but it reads as far more masculine-coded as it hides/covers her curves. Her staples are straight-leg jeans and cotton pants with no pleats (they sit lower at her hips rather than at her waist) , men's vests and sweater vests, men's button down shirts (both long and short sleeved) that aren't tailored, workshirts, t-shirts, men's sweaters. Her jackets/coats are all men's as well. Shoes tend to be boot style leaning toward Doc Marten's and the like. She wears a messenger bag or backpack. Her eyeglasses have heavy, dark frames and she shaves her head or has a very, very closely cropped hairstyle. On dressier occasions, she sticks with men's wear and sports bow ties and suspenders. She doesn't wear bright colors - mostly browns, dark blues, olive greens, maroons, grays, and blacks.
I'm pretty sure she wears sports bras and men's boxer briefs.
She doesn't wear obvious makeup, but she has very dark hair and her features stand out well without makeup. If you like some makeup, I don't think you should hesitate to put on neutral-colored makeup like foundation and mascara/eyeliner/brow pencil, and lip balm. I'd probably steer clear of eyeshadow, pink blush (though a matte bronzer to contour your face would be fine), and lipstick.
posted by quince at 11:35 AM on April 15, 2015
I'm pretty sure she wears sports bras and men's boxer briefs.
She doesn't wear obvious makeup, but she has very dark hair and her features stand out well without makeup. If you like some makeup, I don't think you should hesitate to put on neutral-colored makeup like foundation and mascara/eyeliner/brow pencil, and lip balm. I'd probably steer clear of eyeshadow, pink blush (though a matte bronzer to contour your face would be fine), and lipstick.
posted by quince at 11:35 AM on April 15, 2015
Best answer: >What about makeup? Do you find that there's still an expectation for female bodied individuals to wear it in a business setting even when presenting as masculine?
I'm in an academic setting where the rules are strange, but for what it's worth I almost never wear makeup. On the other hand, the more masculine I dress, the more I feel like small concessions to femininity make people around me more comfortable. (A while back I realized that earrings alone seem to cross some line that make people more comfortable, even when that is literally the only female-coded thing I've got going on. I don't know anything about your preferences but it means that people don't do a double take when I mention my husband, for example.) If you like makeup, mixing and matching is fine and dandy unless you're specifically trying to pass.
On the general topic of fashion inspiration, I was just listening to some comedy by Susan Calman, who has a curvy body and an awesome wardrobe. (How great is this, zomg.) I think a plain unisex V-neck sweater or vest would give you plenty of stretch (I had a similar thread yesterday and am probably going to buy a stack of these to wear with a button-down underneath, and the large sizes look like they may fit you with a bit of tailoring at the waist.)
posted by tchemgrrl at 12:53 PM on April 15, 2015
I'm in an academic setting where the rules are strange, but for what it's worth I almost never wear makeup. On the other hand, the more masculine I dress, the more I feel like small concessions to femininity make people around me more comfortable. (A while back I realized that earrings alone seem to cross some line that make people more comfortable, even when that is literally the only female-coded thing I've got going on. I don't know anything about your preferences but it means that people don't do a double take when I mention my husband, for example.) If you like makeup, mixing and matching is fine and dandy unless you're specifically trying to pass.
On the general topic of fashion inspiration, I was just listening to some comedy by Susan Calman, who has a curvy body and an awesome wardrobe. (How great is this, zomg.) I think a plain unisex V-neck sweater or vest would give you plenty of stretch (I had a similar thread yesterday and am probably going to buy a stack of these to wear with a button-down underneath, and the large sizes look like they may fit you with a bit of tailoring at the waist.)
posted by tchemgrrl at 12:53 PM on April 15, 2015
Best answer: I think it is extremely informative to get a copy of Trinny and Susannah's "What Not To Wear, Vol. 1".
This book breaks down a body feature by feature, and explains exactly what suits which feature, and why. For example, high necklines are not good on big boobs because they create a large uninterrupted expanse of fabric, whereas a v-neck divides up the space in the chest area and makes the overall bust area look smaller.
In order to avoid exaggerating your shortness, you would apply the opposite principle: try to wear one colour from head to toe, so you have a long unbroken line for the full length of your body.
Sometimes the do's and don'ts for one feature that you have, will contradict the do's and dont's for another. Just cross out all the don'ts, and whatever's left is whatever will look the best on you.
"The Triumph of Individual Style" will tell you that the fleshy areas of your body should be clothed with fluid-type fabrics like chiffon, or if you use more taut fabrics like denim or cotton twill etc, that the cut of the garments should follow the line of your curves. I think things like chiffon are definitely coded feminine, so you will probably want to go the "taut fabrics in garments cut to hug curves" route.
I think that if you take otherwise androgynous styles in cuts that follow your curves, you will be off to a good start and you won't be doing the very difficult task of fighting against your actual appearance, even though your actual appearance is more feminine than you'd like.
As time goes on and you get good at it, you may then want to steer towards the appearance of a straighter, less overtly feminine line; it's just that that's the Advanced Students course if you see what I mean.
And as for your question about makeup: no, unless you are working in the display professions there is no business etiquette requirement to wear it at all. If you do wear it, business etiquette would dictate that you go for the neutral "no makeup" look.
posted by tel3path at 1:19 PM on April 15, 2015
This book breaks down a body feature by feature, and explains exactly what suits which feature, and why. For example, high necklines are not good on big boobs because they create a large uninterrupted expanse of fabric, whereas a v-neck divides up the space in the chest area and makes the overall bust area look smaller.
In order to avoid exaggerating your shortness, you would apply the opposite principle: try to wear one colour from head to toe, so you have a long unbroken line for the full length of your body.
Sometimes the do's and don'ts for one feature that you have, will contradict the do's and dont's for another. Just cross out all the don'ts, and whatever's left is whatever will look the best on you.
"The Triumph of Individual Style" will tell you that the fleshy areas of your body should be clothed with fluid-type fabrics like chiffon, or if you use more taut fabrics like denim or cotton twill etc, that the cut of the garments should follow the line of your curves. I think things like chiffon are definitely coded feminine, so you will probably want to go the "taut fabrics in garments cut to hug curves" route.
I think that if you take otherwise androgynous styles in cuts that follow your curves, you will be off to a good start and you won't be doing the very difficult task of fighting against your actual appearance, even though your actual appearance is more feminine than you'd like.
As time goes on and you get good at it, you may then want to steer towards the appearance of a straighter, less overtly feminine line; it's just that that's the Advanced Students course if you see what I mean.
And as for your question about makeup: no, unless you are working in the display professions there is no business etiquette requirement to wear it at all. If you do wear it, business etiquette would dictate that you go for the neutral "no makeup" look.
posted by tel3path at 1:19 PM on April 15, 2015
I'm an academic, so your mileage may vary, but masculine presenting women here don't wear makeup (and many women don't at all), even ones in higher administrative roles. (There are also precious few masculine presenting women here, but that's another thread...
posted by joycehealy at 2:01 PM on April 15, 2015
posted by joycehealy at 2:01 PM on April 15, 2015
Best answer: For hair, I don't think weight or face shape precludes a short cut. I have had short hair while quite hefty. I did well with asymmetric cuts and I could go really short on the back and sides as long as I had a little more in the bangs area to soften it a bit. That specific cut may not work for you, but I don't think you should rule out a short cut.
One of the things I have enjoyed about having very short hair is the minimal upkeep. When I had a Fortune 500 job, I washing it in the morning and got dressed and went to work. I didn't blow dry it or use product, etc. YMMV -- my hair is curly and doesn't need product when it's short enough. (I am a point where I would like longer hair again, but I definitely have enjoyed the carefree lifestyle aspect of short hair. That part has been really awesome.)
I also did not wear makeup. I think if you have a flattering haircut and flattering clothing shapes, makeup matters a lot less.
When I was really heavy (and busty), I found it helpful to wear knits and things with some give. So I bought a lot of things that were some percentage of a stretchy fabric. I also did the sports bra thing. I found them comfortable and affordable and those were my primary criteria for doing that. Again, I was working at a Fortune 500 job, but not customer facing. It was business casual most of the time.
posted by Michele in California at 4:24 PM on April 15, 2015
One of the things I have enjoyed about having very short hair is the minimal upkeep. When I had a Fortune 500 job, I washing it in the morning and got dressed and went to work. I didn't blow dry it or use product, etc. YMMV -- my hair is curly and doesn't need product when it's short enough. (I am a point where I would like longer hair again, but I definitely have enjoyed the carefree lifestyle aspect of short hair. That part has been really awesome.)
I also did not wear makeup. I think if you have a flattering haircut and flattering clothing shapes, makeup matters a lot less.
When I was really heavy (and busty), I found it helpful to wear knits and things with some give. So I bought a lot of things that were some percentage of a stretchy fabric. I also did the sports bra thing. I found them comfortable and affordable and those were my primary criteria for doing that. Again, I was working at a Fortune 500 job, but not customer facing. It was business casual most of the time.
posted by Michele in California at 4:24 PM on April 15, 2015
Best answer: Pixie cuts are not androgynous. Pixie cuts are feminine. Here's some advice geared specifically towards passing as male, but you may find some of it useful, especially the section on haircuts.
Hair is super important to gender presentation. Yes, there are guys with long hair and women with short hair blah blah blah. But for me, the type of cut - even if it's the same length - is the difference between "here's your coffee, sir" and a guy rushing to hold a door open for me. I literally just parted it on the other side today and people react differently than they did yesterday because of the way it's cut.
I agree with tchemgrrl that earrings alone (they can be just studs) make people more comfortable even if everything else codes as masculine. I think makeup is totally optional these days in almost all professions, but you should do what makes you feel comfortable.
posted by desjardins at 9:10 AM on April 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
Hair is super important to gender presentation. Yes, there are guys with long hair and women with short hair blah blah blah. But for me, the type of cut - even if it's the same length - is the difference between "here's your coffee, sir" and a guy rushing to hold a door open for me. I literally just parted it on the other side today and people react differently than they did yesterday because of the way it's cut.
I agree with tchemgrrl that earrings alone (they can be just studs) make people more comfortable even if everything else codes as masculine. I think makeup is totally optional these days in almost all professions, but you should do what makes you feel comfortable.
posted by desjardins at 9:10 AM on April 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
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It would even let you wear a tie tucked into it, instead of having it crest your boob overhang and hang there all awkwardly swinging, or you could do a bowtie. Both are nicely masculine themed accessories.
posted by foxfirefey at 1:38 AM on April 15, 2015 [1 favorite]