Public transit phone/picture-capable-device etiquette

March 27, 2015 11:16 AM

On public transit, do you feel threatened about people holding devices with cameras in such a way that they could potentially be taking pictures or recording? Do you feel pressure about how you hold your own camera-capable devices? This is more of a general question, but details about why I became curious are as follows.

I was taking the subway home yesterday. A huge majority of that time was spent reading an eBook, with some time spent browsing MetaFilter before going into a non-receptive tunnel. I had earbuds in, holding my smartphone in portrait in my hand, mostly vertical and facing towards the end of the train car. I was sitting in a seat such that this position meant that 80% of the train car could see what was on my screen, but the camera was consistently pointed at 4 or so seats at the end of the car, which were filled by 2 people. (My phone is in a case that does not obstruct the camera, it would be a hassle with this case to stick things on top of the camera eye, as I like to take pictures sometimes. I try to ask before taking pictures of people/pets.) My stance a majority of the time was with one leg crossed on top of the other leg's knee, upon which I rested my elbow. Other than that, it's likely I would rest my elbow on the back of my other arm's wrist, which would be folded across my chest. Most of my motions were sideways swipes, although there was some pointed jabbing because Kindle for iOS is terrible with footnotes and I was reading a Pratchett novel.

This was offensive to the person who was sitting at the end of the train car, who when leaving the car asked if I had heard of cell phone etiquette, and explained how the camera was continuously pointed at him. He and I had both been in the train for 35 minutes or so at that point. I thanked him for pointing that out. Other than that, my only interaction that subway ride was to confirm for another passenger that the train would go to a particular station.

posted by halifix to Society & Culture (28 answers total)

I usually have my smartphone pointed down at an angle when reading. It seems a little odd to keep it oriented 90° from the ground. But that's for ease of reading rather than some made-up "cell phone etiquette".

This is really that person's problem, not yours. They could have moved or asked you to orient your phone differently, but they didn't. I wouldn't change the way you hold your phone because someone might possibly silently take offense for 35 min.
posted by grouse at 11:25 AM on March 27, 2015 [5 favorites]

Doesn't bother me at all and I hold (and will continue to hold) my phone in the most comfortable way possible for me to do what it is I'm doing on it.

I probably would have rolled my eyes at that guy but your way of handling it was probably better to actually end the conversation.
posted by magnetsphere at 11:25 AM on March 27, 2015 [8 favorites]

Maybe I'm clueless, but I ride the subway daily, looking at my phone, and have never been aware of my camera position, or that of others'. But I think I naturally hold my phone flat. The only phone thing that bothers me is when people's music is too loud.

I think you handled it well, and I don't think you need to sweat it in the future.
posted by Kriesa at 11:28 AM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]

I think you're fine in both your use and in how you handled that. I can be (kind of over-) sensitive about shared-space etiquette and that wouldn't have bothered me.
posted by carrioncomfort at 11:32 AM on March 27, 2015

Best answer: I would have briefly turned my screen around and said "I'm reading, not recording. Sorry for the confusion."

Not worth a battle.
posted by oceanjesse at 11:32 AM on March 27, 2015 [12 favorites]

If you held your phone that way for an extended period of time, I would not be particularly concerned, but if you held it that way for short periods of time, I would assume you were filming and I would get up and move. I see it more as my issue than the person who may or may not be filming. Public transit, public place, expectations of privacy low.
posted by 724A at 11:32 AM on March 27, 2015 [3 favorites]

I don't think it's a big deal, and I can't really say whether you were doing this, but yeah, a phone held in such a way that it seems ambiguous whether you're being photographed/videoed can be uncomfortable.
posted by cmoj at 11:32 AM on March 27, 2015 [2 favorites]

Once in a blue moon, I'll see someone holding their phone and looking at it in a way that makes me think they could be taking a picture of me or someone with me (we know people go around taking pictures of each other without permission all the time these days), and it will make me a little uncomfortable. Just the camera pointing in my direction alone probably wouldn't make me think that, though.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:33 AM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]

I have been commuting via public transportation as long as phones have had cameras and I have never heard of "cell phone etiquette" that described how people should be holding their phones. I mean, if you're holding your phone as if it were a book your camera is going to be pointing at someone.

I have seen people taking pictures of other people with their phones (one creep was taking pictures of little kids) and I think it's usually somewhat obvious when someone is taking a picture vs. when they're just reading.

I wouldn't worry about it.
posted by bondcliff at 11:50 AM on March 27, 2015 [2 favorites]

Best answer: As a lady-type who rides transit and has had creeps take pictures of me before, I will 100% call people out on it, at the time and in the moment. I'm better than average at reading body cues and make pretty damn sure a picture has actually been taken before I say anything.

(And when I do it's "did you just take a picture of me?" [or "of her" if I see someone creeping on another woman/girl] And you can tell when someone has because they get cagey and aggro. So then I tell them to delete the fucking picture, and make sure I say it loud enough that everyone else on the train knows there's some creep taking pictures of women trying to get through their workday without getting creeped on.)

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it in your case, obviously you weren't doing anything wrong. But as a person who specifically watches for this, here are tells:

-holding the phone at an awkward angle (90 degrees is not typically a comfortable angle to hold your phone/head at, so yeah, it's gonna stick out) directly at another person
-looking up repeatedly between the subject and the phone
-hiding the phone screen from view
-scrolling through things on the phone and then returning the phone to the awkward angle
-leaving your camera shutter volume on loud you goddamned amateurs

Don't do any of those things and no one is going to think you're taking photos of anyone.
posted by phunniemee at 12:12 PM on March 27, 2015 [19 favorites]

I will 100% call people out on it, at the time and in the moment.

I meant to add after this...someone who doesn't say anything until after a whole half hour and then does it from an "etiquette" argument is just rules policing you and can be ignored. People with legit beef should let you know it. Someone who thinks you're rude just wants to hear the sound of his own voice.
posted by phunniemee at 12:15 PM on March 27, 2015 [4 favorites]

Do you feel threatened about people holding devices with cameras in such a way that they could potentially be taking pictures or recording? Do you feel pressure about how you hold your own camera-capable devices? This is more of a general question, but details about why I became curious are as follows.

I don't feel threatened by it, but I think it would be rude for someone to record me or take my picture without asking permission.

I don't hold my phone / e-reader at an angle when looking at it that would allow me to photograph anything but my own knee, so that isn't a concern for me either.
posted by Julnyes at 12:16 PM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]

Yeah, I think the etiquette failure here is that someone thought you were recording him for 35 minutes and chose to stew over that rather than express his concerns immediately.
posted by adamrice at 12:17 PM on March 27, 2015 [3 favorites]

Came in to say what phunniemee said. It is as invasive as hell so I am a little hyper sensitive to it, and try to make it obvious that's not what I'm doing with my own phone.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 12:42 PM on March 27, 2015

Best answer: I don't think it was an etiquette violation to wait to tell you. I don't know where the folks saying it is ride public transport, but there are plenty of times in San Francisco where I've seen folks wait to say something (about whatever topic) until they're about to leave the bus. It's because they don't want to risk a) making things awkward and then having to sit with it for 35 minutes or b) angering you and then having to deal with your anger for 35 minutes, or have to get off the bus and wait however long to get home.

It's possible/likely that this person was just being weird, as people frequently are on public transport. Probably the best way to figure it out is to replicate your position for someone in person. But I can imagine positions that would both be innocuous in reality and make someone feel uncomfortably observed at the same time--when I use my phone, it's angled so the highest it would really film would be someone's knees. If this is not the case for you, it may make you a more pleasant transport user to find a different way to hold your phone.
posted by c'mon sea legs at 12:43 PM on March 27, 2015 [3 favorites]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I do think it's extremely rude to point a camera at someone without their permission. Whether or not you are recording is besides the point. Your phone is camera, when you have it out, you should be mindful of where you are pointing it.
posted by 256 at 12:59 PM on March 27, 2015 [3 favorites]

1) There's no established etiquette around making it clear that you're not recording anyone in a public place.
2) It is also uncomfortable if you think someone is taking a picture of you.
3) The common sense response to thinking someone might be recording you on the train is to move, rather than to continue sitting where the camera is pointing and then complain about it later.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 1:00 PM on March 27, 2015 [2 favorites]

It's not your problem — I hold my phone at a 90 degree angle, or close to it, most of the time when I'm on the train or whatever. It's what works for me and my neck, and if anybody has a problem with that, they can honestly go to hell because taking a picture on the train is honestly the last thing on my mind; seriously, what's there to take a picture of? I wouldn't waste your energy on trying to please everyone around you on public transportation... there's just no telling what's gonna set someone off and it's exhausting trying to police your behavior in order to preclude that possibility. As long as your intentions check out, and you're adhering to basic public-transit etiquette, such a reaction is totally unreasonable and on them — it's just not your problem. In my experience, I've never even had an issue with this, in that nobody's yet complained, so I might be a little biased here, but I think this is the right mindset to be taking.
posted by un petit cadeau at 1:03 PM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]

I ride the bus every work day and have done so for more than 10 years, and I feel like the angle at which I hold my phone and the direction in which I point it are my own business. I don't think people should photograph or videotape another without permission, that is a matter of transit etiquette, but that's not what you were doing.
posted by Area Man at 1:04 PM on March 27, 2015

I don't have a problem at all with taking photos of people in a public space, frankly. And I think the guy sounds totally unreasonable. If he didn't like the way you were holding your phone, it was his burden to get up and move, not yours to make sure you weren't maybe possibly perhaps pointing the phone in a way that didn't upset his sensitive self.
posted by holborne at 1:06 PM on March 27, 2015 [2 favorites]

I am sensitive to the idea of someone taking my picture in public, yes, so I would be very uncomfortable if I felt you were directing a camera at me. So if you don't want to creep out your fellow passengers, adjust your angle, or maybe put a post-it note over the camera, on top of/ on the outside of your case.

However, if I were that creeped out by it, I sure as well would have moved within the first couple of minutes, and I would have moved behind you. So I think some of the responsibility falls on your fellow passenger here.

So... don't worry too much about it, but do be aware of the angle of your camera.
posted by vignettist at 1:27 PM on March 27, 2015 [2 favorites]

Best answer: This was offensive to the person who was sitting at the end of the train car, who when leaving the car asked if I had heard of cell phone etiquette, and explained how the camera was continuously pointed at him.

I rode public transit daily up until a few years ago, and this never, ever occurred to me, but it's a decent enough point. People have different comfort levels and if someone said this to me, I'd file it away as a lesson in making your fellow transit passengers feel comfortable and safe.
posted by futureisunwritten at 2:50 PM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]

Best answer: I know a lot of people who have some level of concern/paranoia about being photographed in public. I am not one of those people but I know enough people who care about this sort of thing (as well as a few who REALLY care) that I usually try to make a minor effort to not look like I am recording people if I am pointing the camera part of my phone at them in public. I think that person was rude to you but I would assume some low level anxiety on his part and just have a low key response along the lines of what oceanjesse says. You feel that you did nothing wrong and I think this is accurate. I also think there are ways to be more mindful of people who might have these concerns (as some people here have said they do) and change your reading style a bit in the future to be accommodating if you pride yourself on being exceptionally considerate in shared public spaces.
posted by jessamyn at 4:10 PM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]

I've definitely been photographed/recorded by creeps on the subway, but in my experience it was always clear they were doing something weird (i.e. also staring at me, and clearly pointing a phone in my direction). From your description, I wouldn't have been bothered me what you did. I think it's polite to be aware of where you're pointing your phone, though, and if there might be some uncertainty about what you're doing, maybe angle your device in a slightly different direction. I'd say this applies more on a train car that's more empty than one that's full.
posted by three_red_balloons at 4:59 PM on March 27, 2015

I will sometimes turn my phone upside down so that the camera lens is hidden behind my hand while I read. It causes me no inconvenience to do so.
posted by harrietthespy at 8:23 PM on March 27, 2015 [4 favorites]

I actually have a hard time imagining how you could comfortably hold your screen at a 90 degree angle and read it for 35 straight minutes. In order to read a screen at a 90 degree angle it has to be virtually in front of your face, and to hold it up like that would mean having your arms up. I'm not normally super self-conscious but if someone was awkwardly holding their phone in such a way that it was conspicuously pointed at me for over half an hour, I'd get pretty damned nervous about what they were doing and why, too.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:39 AM on March 28, 2015

Harrietthespy, that is a really smart tip and I'll be using it. I always have my phone at a camera-ish angle more in front of me, because it feels really unhealthy for the neck to stay craned down at something below it. So it's ideal to flip it; that way, people who are concerned enough to be examining the phone will see it couldn't be taking pics.
posted by kalapierson at 10:15 AM on March 28, 2015

I do think there's such a thing as phone etiquette regarding camera phones and I am sensitive to having them pointed directly at me in public. Camera phones are no different than video cameras. Would it be okay to point a video camera directly at someone even if you were just using it to watch a movie? Would they be justified in feeling a tad uncomfortable? Of course they would.

As a woman it's perhaps more of a sensitivity because creeps, especially on public transport. I myself am conscious of trying not to look like I might be recording someone and if the person who happens to be in front of my video camera (because that is what it is) is acting uncomfortable, I'll angle it down. Once I was sitting at a large farm table in a cafe and the person catty corner to me had his camera phone pointed directly at me, just holding it there. He was maybe two feet away? That made me uncomfortable so I pointed my phone, which I was reading a book on, directly at him and of course he became uncomfortable. Ironically, I'm sure if he had posted here he would've said the same as some of the above commenters: "Damn if I'm gonna let some over sensitive XYZ tell me where I can and cannot point my phone."

Let me repeat: it isn't just a phone. It isn't even just a camera. Those words belie what it really is, which is a powerful video recording device.

We now live in a country where at least half the people are carrying around video record devices. I think it's strange the idea that courtesy is not expected. Imagine we were all carrying around large video cameras instead and got offended if someone said, Er would you mind not pointing your video camera directly at me?

But let's use another example entirely because there's more to this than just video cameras. Say you're staring into space but in front of you is a woman who is growing uncomfortable. Now if you knew that for all intents and purposes it looked like you were staring at her chest you'd probably feel slightly embarrassed and stare off into space somewhere else precisely because where we direct our attention matters. Because we don't live in silos, we live in communities.
posted by lillian.elmtree at 11:47 AM on March 28, 2015 [2 favorites]