Is the buyer of my sofa scamming me or just crazy/rude?
March 4, 2015 3:44 PM Subscribe
I am selling a sofa on Craigslist. Someone claiming to be military has contacted me via email and wants to buy it but they are on assignment. This is where it gets weird and a little scammy and I am not sure what to do.
They emailed and said they would give the asking price. They say they are military and on assignment and, so, can't come to actually look at the couch or pick it up. They stated a cashier's check would be arriving via UPS. I am to cash it then contact them via email and they would arrange for pickup.
Well, I got an email this morning saying that the check should arrive today, which it has. They said that they are actually moving their entire household and that they have written a check for more than the amount of the couch to include the cost of their entire move. I am to cash the check, then have a cashier's check made out to a provided address to cover the moving costs. That company will come for my couch as well as the rest of her stuff.
The check is for my couch plus $2,070! This person absolutely does NOT know me in the least. She knows my name, email, and address. I only know her by name and email. The following two addresses are on the check:
Level One Investments, LLC
1451 W Red Creek Drive
Oro Valley, AZ 85737
(street view shows a residential area)
Bank of America
2080 W Ina Rd
Tucson, AZ 85704
(street view verifies it is a B of Am)
This is a cashier's check, so, I don't know how I would refund their money to get out of this. The address they want me to send MY cashier's check to is a person in a residential area, not a moving business. I'm doing all of this in San Diego, a large city with a huge military presence. WTF?
They emailed and said they would give the asking price. They say they are military and on assignment and, so, can't come to actually look at the couch or pick it up. They stated a cashier's check would be arriving via UPS. I am to cash it then contact them via email and they would arrange for pickup.
Well, I got an email this morning saying that the check should arrive today, which it has. They said that they are actually moving their entire household and that they have written a check for more than the amount of the couch to include the cost of their entire move. I am to cash the check, then have a cashier's check made out to a provided address to cover the moving costs. That company will come for my couch as well as the rest of her stuff.
The check is for my couch plus $2,070! This person absolutely does NOT know me in the least. She knows my name, email, and address. I only know her by name and email. The following two addresses are on the check:
Level One Investments, LLC
1451 W Red Creek Drive
Oro Valley, AZ 85737
(street view shows a residential area)
Bank of America
2080 W Ina Rd
Tucson, AZ 85704
(street view verifies it is a B of Am)
This is a cashier's check, so, I don't know how I would refund their money to get out of this. The address they want me to send MY cashier's check to is a person in a residential area, not a moving business. I'm doing all of this in San Diego, a large city with a huge military presence. WTF?
Total scam. Fake fake fake. Throw away the check, cease contact.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 3:45 PM on March 4, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 3:45 PM on March 4, 2015 [6 favorites]
Best answer: Scam. The check is fake - you will deposit it, and then be on the hook for the overage you send to them, and the bad check fees. Rip it up and sell your couch to someone local who will pay you in cash.
posted by rtha at 3:47 PM on March 4, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by rtha at 3:47 PM on March 4, 2015 [13 favorites]
A well known scam. Stay away from anyone who does anything weird, cash in hand only!
posted by SpaceWarp13 at 3:47 PM on March 4, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by SpaceWarp13 at 3:47 PM on March 4, 2015 [6 favorites]
This screams scam. There is no legitimate reason for someone to do business this way.
posted by zachlipton at 3:47 PM on March 4, 2015
posted by zachlipton at 3:47 PM on March 4, 2015
Response by poster: So, the scam is they are trying to pass a fake cashier's check?
posted by Foam Pants at 3:48 PM on March 4, 2015
posted by Foam Pants at 3:48 PM on March 4, 2015
n'thing that this sort of thing is always a scam. Always.
posted by seasparrow at 3:49 PM on March 4, 2015
posted by seasparrow at 3:49 PM on March 4, 2015
So, the scam is they are trying to pass a fake cashier's check?
Yes. A fake check for more than the selling price, asking you to refund the difference. They aren't trying to get a free couch.
posted by thelonius at 3:50 PM on March 4, 2015
Yes. A fake check for more than the selling price, asking you to refund the difference. They aren't trying to get a free couch.
posted by thelonius at 3:50 PM on March 4, 2015
Response by poster: Should I notify that Bank of America location listed on the check about this scam? I'm thinking it would be a waste of time.
posted by Foam Pants at 3:50 PM on March 4, 2015
posted by Foam Pants at 3:50 PM on March 4, 2015
The cheque will be stolen or a forgery. You will end up in the hole for it.
In the UK, this is also sometimes seen by the bank as participating in money laundering, and banks will usually tell a customer who's paid in a fake cheque that it's closing their account and no longer wants their business. This also results in a CIFAS notice (a fraud indicator) being placed against that customer so they can't open an account anywhere else.
I don't know if banks in the US have the same kind of reporting rules as we do in the UK, but even where people act in all innocence in these scams, the consequences for them can be very serious indeed.
posted by essexjan at 3:53 PM on March 4, 2015
In the UK, this is also sometimes seen by the bank as participating in money laundering, and banks will usually tell a customer who's paid in a fake cheque that it's closing their account and no longer wants their business. This also results in a CIFAS notice (a fraud indicator) being placed against that customer so they can't open an account anywhere else.
I don't know if banks in the US have the same kind of reporting rules as we do in the UK, but even where people act in all innocence in these scams, the consequences for them can be very serious indeed.
posted by essexjan at 3:53 PM on March 4, 2015
Here's what appears in the email from Craigslist that you receive when you POST an ad:
WARNING!! *** WARNING!! *** WARNING!! *** WARNING!!
Please be wary of distant 'buyers' responding to your ad! Many sellers receive replies from scammers hoping to defraud them through schemes involving counterfeit cashier's checks and/or wire transfers. These checks will clear the bank, but the person cashing the check will be held responsible when the fraud is discovered. More info on scams can be found at this web address:
http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams
Thanks for using craigslist!
posted by peep at 3:55 PM on March 4, 2015 [9 favorites]
WARNING!! *** WARNING!! *** WARNING!! *** WARNING!!
Please be wary of distant 'buyers' responding to your ad! Many sellers receive replies from scammers hoping to defraud them through schemes involving counterfeit cashier's checks and/or wire transfers. These checks will clear the bank, but the person cashing the check will be held responsible when the fraud is discovered. More info on scams can be found at this web address:
http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams
Thanks for using craigslist!
posted by peep at 3:55 PM on March 4, 2015 [9 favorites]
this is also common in roommate listings, by the way - fyi to anyone in future who finds this thread by searching for 'cashier's check'
posted by thelonius at 3:57 PM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by thelonius at 3:57 PM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Yes, thanks, peep, for grinding in the fact that I should have known better.
posted by Foam Pants at 3:57 PM on March 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Foam Pants at 3:57 PM on March 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
Phone the bank, they will tell you what they would like you to do with the cheque and addresses. Do whatever they tell you to do. Do not deposit the cheque. Do not contact the scammer again.
The reason people do this scam so often is that lots and lots of people fall for it -- don't feel bad. And no one reads warnings on posting sites, they're like EULAs. You saw that it was weird, you verified, that was the right move.
posted by jeather at 4:02 PM on March 4, 2015 [13 favorites]
The reason people do this scam so often is that lots and lots of people fall for it -- don't feel bad. And no one reads warnings on posting sites, they're like EULAs. You saw that it was weird, you verified, that was the right move.
posted by jeather at 4:02 PM on March 4, 2015 [13 favorites]
It's a verywell-known scam --- I'd suggest calling the police non-emergency number and tell them about it.
Say you were to deposit it, then you send this person the extra $2k-plus. When the bank comes back to say it bounced, they'll take that $2070 back out of YOUR account, and the scammer is long, LONG gone. And there you are: you've lost your money.
Sell your couch to somebody who'll come to pick it up, and who'll pay with cash or a cashier's check, NOT a personal check.
posted by easily confused at 4:38 PM on March 4, 2015
Say you were to deposit it, then you send this person the extra $2k-plus. When the bank comes back to say it bounced, they'll take that $2070 back out of YOUR account, and the scammer is long, LONG gone. And there you are: you've lost your money.
Sell your couch to somebody who'll come to pick it up, and who'll pay with cash or a cashier's check, NOT a personal check.
posted by easily confused at 4:38 PM on March 4, 2015
Sell your couch to somebody who'll come to pick it up, and who'll pay with cash or a cashier's check, NOT a personal check.
This scam is usually done with a cashier's check (as it was in this case). Don't accept anything but cash.
posted by brainmouse at 4:41 PM on March 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
This scam is usually done with a cashier's check (as it was in this case). Don't accept anything but cash.
posted by brainmouse at 4:41 PM on March 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
If you have to write a check when you are the one selling, it's a scam.
Scammy, scammy, scam.
Hope you find a cash buyer soon!
posted by ablazingsaddle at 4:58 PM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Scammy, scammy, scam.
Hope you find a cash buyer soon!
posted by ablazingsaddle at 4:58 PM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Aside from what everyone else has said, it doesn't make any sense at all for anyone to pay $2070 (plus whatever you're asking for the couch) to have a secondhand couch moved when they could buy a brand new couch for less than that. Total scam.
posted by orange swan at 5:06 PM on March 4, 2015
posted by orange swan at 5:06 PM on March 4, 2015
Yes, thanks, peep, for grinding in the fact that I should have known better.
Absolutely don't feel bad about this, FoamPants. You caught the scam before you lost anything, and that's a huge win. One of the most brilliant, accomplished people I've ever met fell hard for a scam like this in a moment of weakness because he needed the money. Ended up losing 3K and a laptop. It can happen to anyone.
But yeah: Scam scam scam. A buyer not being able to pick it up in person because of #reasons is a good pattern to remember.
posted by mochapickle at 5:16 PM on March 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
Absolutely don't feel bad about this, FoamPants. You caught the scam before you lost anything, and that's a huge win. One of the most brilliant, accomplished people I've ever met fell hard for a scam like this in a moment of weakness because he needed the money. Ended up losing 3K and a laptop. It can happen to anyone.
But yeah: Scam scam scam. A buyer not being able to pick it up in person because of #reasons is a good pattern to remember.
posted by mochapickle at 5:16 PM on March 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
I had an offer on my farm a couple weeks ago from someone who claimed to be US military about to retire and quarantined in Liberia. I think this is a thing now.
It was very interesting how they tried so hard to reassure me while also punching all of my sympathy buttons rather expertly. The only reason I even responded to them was because they are active participants on another forum and have been for years. I read all of their posts to the forum in one night and it was pretty clear they were not all written by the same person.
Scam.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 7:21 PM on March 4, 2015
It was very interesting how they tried so hard to reassure me while also punching all of my sympathy buttons rather expertly. The only reason I even responded to them was because they are active participants on another forum and have been for years. I read all of their posts to the forum in one night and it was pretty clear they were not all written by the same person.
Scam.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 7:21 PM on March 4, 2015
Should I notify that Bank of America location listed on the check about this scam? I'm thinking it would be a waste of time.
Yes, please notify the bank. Industry groups, clearinghouses and law enforcement agencies track this information and circulate it. I see warning bulletins for counterfeit cashier's checks all the time at my work. Each bit of information that can be used to identify a pattern will help to shut down the scam.
posted by ogooglebar at 7:51 PM on March 4, 2015
Yes, please notify the bank. Industry groups, clearinghouses and law enforcement agencies track this information and circulate it. I see warning bulletins for counterfeit cashier's checks all the time at my work. Each bit of information that can be used to identify a pattern will help to shut down the scam.
posted by ogooglebar at 7:51 PM on March 4, 2015
This case is to this former retail banker an obvious scam. If it was less obvious you could look up a contact number for the bank on the internet using the routing number (and how you find the number is important) and ask them to verify that they issued the check.
You could just drop it off at the closest branch or just call the phone bank and ask them what to do. I'd probably just drop it at the branch whenever it's convenient for you and make them figure out what to do.
When I worked in a branch (not BoA) we just shredded these if no one actually took a loss but I wouldn't be surprised if there is some proper department that collects them or something.
posted by VTX at 8:07 PM on March 4, 2015
You could just drop it off at the closest branch or just call the phone bank and ask them what to do. I'd probably just drop it at the branch whenever it's convenient for you and make them figure out what to do.
When I worked in a branch (not BoA) we just shredded these if no one actually took a loss but I wouldn't be surprised if there is some proper department that collects them or something.
posted by VTX at 8:07 PM on March 4, 2015
Craigslist is fantastic, but in no circumstances would I ever sell anything on CL that costs less than $2,000 through anything other than an in-person, cash transaction. As others have said, scam scam scam.
posted by craven_morhead at 7:25 AM on March 5, 2015
posted by craven_morhead at 7:25 AM on March 5, 2015
That is absolutely not what I was doing. I'm sorry you read it that way. I see this question all the time. I thought it would be informative to others.
posted by peep at 8:15 AM on March 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by peep at 8:15 AM on March 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
FWIW, if you did deposit the check, it might actually clear. And then a week a month later the bank will come to you and say "this was a fraudulent check" and take the money back out of your account.
My sister-in-law got caught up in a similar scam, she was "hired" for a summer Au Pair position with a family that was relocating internationally and wanted her to start working for them by running a bunch of errands that seemed totally plausible. She was supposed to cash the check and then pay the deposit on their apartment and ... I forget what else. But the check had cleared. She *had* the money in her account.
Her father finally got involved and made some phone calls. The bank said that at least in this case the checks had been written against a stolen account number, so it was going to take a while for the fraud to be detected. But she would definitely have been on the hook for the money.
posted by amandabee at 6:49 AM on March 9, 2015
My sister-in-law got caught up in a similar scam, she was "hired" for a summer Au Pair position with a family that was relocating internationally and wanted her to start working for them by running a bunch of errands that seemed totally plausible. She was supposed to cash the check and then pay the deposit on their apartment and ... I forget what else. But the check had cleared. She *had* the money in her account.
Her father finally got involved and made some phone calls. The bank said that at least in this case the checks had been written against a stolen account number, so it was going to take a while for the fraud to be detected. But she would definitely have been on the hook for the money.
posted by amandabee at 6:49 AM on March 9, 2015
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