Why do Americans have such odd ideas about the British?

November 17, 2005 2:30 AM

Why do Americans have such odd ideas about the British?

I was watching an episode of Family Guy last night, where the local bar gets turned into a British pub. I was greatly amused by the strange stereotyping coupled with complete ignorance, when I realised that it wasn't just Family Guy. I see the same bizarre attitudes in say, The Simpsons, South Park and other programs. I run into it all the time online, too: no thead on Fark.com about Britain is complete without references to bad teeth, etc. I know I'm talking about comedy here, but they all seem to betray an underlying set of assumptions and attitudes that seem to have no basis whatsoever in reality. I'm also aware that British programs will stereotype Americans as well, but to nowhere near the same degree.

(If you're an American getting offended about this question, please don't be - obviously I'm not saying every American holds these strange views, and I'm talking to a more worldly crowd than average here)

posted by salmacis to society & culture (81 comments total)

Can you expand on the "bad teeth, etc." part? It might help if we knew what you were talking about.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 2:48 AM on November 17, 2005

Consider this. Comedic television does this to all "other" groups. Women, queers, latinos, african americans, etc. Without stereotypes I'm not sure there'd be sit-com television.
posted by FlamingBore at 2:48 AM on November 17, 2005

Actually, the Brits do have bad teeth compared to American social norms. Very few Brits over 35, regardless of their income and status, have had orthodontia. In America, there's a ridiculous amount of social pressure to have a huge, perfectly aligned, shiny-white grin, and orthodontia has been a social necessity for anyone who can afford it at least since the 70s.

I've met multi-millionaires in London who had teeth that would mark them as lower-class in America. Doesn't make a difference to me, but I notice it immediately because it clashes with my native culture.
posted by fuzz at 2:51 AM on November 17, 2005

Guardian N&Q on the whole teeth business. (Conversely, the 'over-rich, obnoxious dentist' is an American stereotype.)

On the wider issue, I think it's because popular elaborations of stereotypes tend to reinforce them in the public consciousness, precisely because they appeal what people think they already 'know' about a culture. (Imagine if Ireland were 3000 miles away from the UK, but you still had Oirish pubs and Father Ted.) Those preconceptions aren't offset, because even those Americans who do travel to the UK tend to visit the bits that actually cater to the stereotypes.

Something in the back of my head suggests that many stereotypes, including the 'bad teeth' one, date back to WW2 when GIs were stationed in the UK. If you imagine a 1940s Britain seen through foreign eyes, then caricatured by decades of storytelling, you get fairly close to how Americans imagine the country.

Also, I blame Richard bloody Curtis.
posted by holgate at 3:16 AM on November 17, 2005

The stereotypes in National Lampoon's European Vacation were pretty amusing. The telly with just static snow, or a boring BBC programme about cheese. Eric Idle's apologetic stance..."sorry" despite being mown down by the Griswolds. Going around the roundabout "Look kids, Big Ben, Parliament".

I think a lot of Americans might also be conditioned by the diet of British telly that made it our way before we came over. Benny Hill, Monty Python. Fawlty Towers. Keeping Up Appearances. Warm beer, steak and kidney pies.

Pray that Little Britain doesn't leave the same scars!
posted by sagwalla at 3:16 AM on November 17, 2005

In the US all stereotypes are intentionally insulting. Their intention is degradation. Be happy you're not French. I don't know the function of stereotypes in Britain, and I suspect that they were believed to be true in the US sometime in the past. For example, the Progressive movement of the early 20th century was driven partly by a real fear of the perpetually drunk, pope-loving Irish immigrant. If stereotypes are deployed in US comedy now, it is to be as insulting as possible. I'd refer you to this article discussing Sarah Silverman's new movie "Jesus is Magic." If you'd like to learn a bit about differences in American and British sensibilities, which traffics a bit in that more benign definition of stereotypes, I'd recommend Brit-Think, Ameri-think" by Jane Walmsley.
posted by putzface_dickman at 3:30 AM on November 17, 2005

Having lived in both U.S. and the UK for years, I can say without a doubt that uneven or ugly teeth are much more common in the UK. It is not just a stereotype, but that doesn't mean there aren't people with beautiful smiles in the UK, or ugly ones in the States.
posted by grouse at 3:40 AM on November 17, 2005

As a typical American I completely agree that we stereotype and perform comedy to kill. Our form of humor definitely cuts.
posted by Dean Keaton at 3:43 AM on November 17, 2005

Good question, short answer: Because those stereotypes are funny.

Anyway, the entire concept of the American sitcom (even the animated ones) is based on ridiculous stereotypes of American family life. It follows that any other topics would be stereotyped as well.

The Family Guy episode where they move to the south presents many stereotypes of the south, some much more offensive than the British episode.

Realize when you notice the british stereotypes there are American counterpoints in that episode...

-They are offended by a book that isn't a porno.
-"Peter: (to British Guys) We kicked your ass in World War II & we can do it again!"
--"Peter: “I saw we fight the British and drive them back to whichever country they came from” "
posted by furiousxgeorge at 3:46 AM on November 17, 2005

I think people have already provided better explanations than I can, particularly those relating to comedy and stereotypes, but I would also add that in general American’s are bound to come in contact with upper class Brits to the virtual exclusion of the rest of society. Whenever I get to Kensington or Chelsea I am always stunned by the fact (though I shouldn’t be) that the richest area of London seems to basically be an American enclave. Similarly, aside from some high flying professionals in fairly specific industries, most ‘regular’ Brits I know have only been to the States ‘to see the rat.’ If you look at the way American’s make fun of the Brits – it’s not that far removed from the way Brits make fun of their own aristocracy. For example, it seems to me that most impressionists use prosthetic teeth when they do members of the royal family.
posted by anglophiliated at 3:50 AM on November 17, 2005

The other stereotype is how bad English food is. I really don't see why. I'm fussy, and while I love American food, and much prefer the US restaurant experience, British food isn't that bad if you pay right.
posted by wackybrit at 4:08 AM on November 17, 2005

I'm not offended by Americans stereotyping us - it just doesn't seem particularly apt. The stereotype seems to be a combination of the 1970's and a mish mash of earlier historical periods.

For example, Chris Morris can do a spoof of CNN that was spot on (to my eyes), but if Friends go to London it's all upper class accents and so on.

I think the explanations might be 1) we get a lot of American Films and TV so even though we have stereotypes they're a bit more multilayered.

2) A lot of British comedy uses stereotypes etc because they're a comedy convention - the shy middle class guy etc. and maybe this filters through.

3) Brit Flick films made for the American market pander to those stereotypes ridiculously - 4 weddings etc.
posted by lunkfish at 4:17 AM on November 17, 2005

If I were English I'd be happy at the strange sterotypes us Americans seem to have picked up.
A whole lot nicer then the stereotypes one might pick up on if you actually spent some time in London.

On the other hand, I love the stereotypes of Americans that are prevalent in the UK. Yes I have no sense of humor, no I can't spell, yes my national sports are dumb. Oh I didn't know I couldn't use dollars here. Why yes I do live in South Ken. Gosh do you think we might be able to see the Queen when we visit the Palace?

And mass market food in the UK does suck. Of course in the great classist tradition of that country if you pay up, it pays off.
posted by JPD at 4:23 AM on November 17, 2005

It's funny because a lot of it is true (yes, really). A source of much of the stereotyping is a strange American TV instituition, Masterpiece Theatre which for thirty years has been pumping out middlebrow costume drama wrapped in cut-glass 'English' accents and revealing a fascination with 'Class'. 'Brideshead Revisited' is the most famous, endlessly repeated on American TV and IIRC was also parodied rather effectively in that episode of Family Guy. For the majority of Americans who don't get out of the country, this is as close to 'England' as they will get.
posted by grahamwell at 4:36 AM on November 17, 2005

British food isn't that bad if you pay right.

Some of the best meals I've ever had were in Britain. Of course they were also the most expensive meals I have ever had as well. Thankfully, someone else was paying.

In the U.S. you can get a lot of really good food inexpensively. I don't think this is true in the UK.
posted by grouse at 4:43 AM on November 17, 2005

JPD I think you'll find it's spelt stereotypes not sterotypes.
posted by lunkfish at 4:45 AM on November 17, 2005

which for thirty years has been pumping out middlebrow costume drama

Well, it's been repackaging British costume drama, although PBS stations like WGBH are now often co-producers w/ the BBC, to much amusement.

But you don't get 'bad teeth' and 'boiled food' from Jane Austen and Inspector Morse. I honestly think you get those stereotypes via the million or so Americans who were stationed in England between 1943 and 1945.
posted by holgate at 5:03 AM on November 17, 2005

It's not just Britain. Americans are quite often the most ill-informed people I meet when it comes to understanding and knowledge of other nations. There was a good survey on this which I recently read but can't find it now - can anybody help? Less than a fifth own a passport, for goodness' sake. You have FOX news. But then, we have tabloids.

Yes, it's a cliche but, yes, I've been asked if I know the Queen by Americans. Princess Diana too. There is a stunning lack of understanding about the NHS - people seem to think that it's Victorian doctors sawing off limbs. I actually had someone say "Oh, you have those?" in reference to anesthetics. People have said of an Italian colleague: "How can he be Italian? He's not... pretty enough"

I'm probably perpetuating another stereotype but these misconceptions seem to become more prevalent the further South and West that I travel in the States. Of course, stereotypes are not just limited to America; plenty of people I meet hold unreasonable (and, in many cases, plain wrong) misconceptions about other countries. Unless they're about the French. Everything you read about them is true.

Tea, anyone?
posted by blag at 5:17 AM on November 17, 2005

You also have to realize that a lot of what Family Guy, The Simpsons, and South Park do is take some small stereotype and blow it up to gigantic proportions. The joke isn't that British people have bad teeth, the joke is the stereotype that British people have bad teeth, if that makes any sense. It's a joke about the other joke, not (just) about its nominal topic. The Simpsons in particular does this to lots of ethnic or social stereotypes.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:20 AM on November 17, 2005

Hey Lunkfish thanks for correcting me. You guys are the best. If you'd like to edit this response and get back to me that would be great.

Blag - you are proving my point on idiotic English stereotypes of Americans.

I would be willing to wager that if you asked a group of brits about some unique American institution you would find that the depth of knowledge would be roughly equivalent to what you have seen re: the NHS. I have had experiences similar to yours when it comes to discussing our electoral system or the interactions between the states and the federal government

And the Passport argument is comparing Apples and Oranges. I would be interested in seeing the data that shows what % of UK residents use those passports to travel to destinations more then five hours by air. And for people over the age of 25. That would seem to correct for the prevalence of the "Gap Year", a tradition we lamentably lack in the US. The really cynical part of me says you should correct for Oz and NZ as well. I'd hardly catagorize those places as truly different cultures from the UK or the US.

But hey don't kid yourself - every nation has a % of the population that revels in its ignorance. It just strikes me that the average European overestimates this number for Americans, and the average American underestimates it for Europeans.

As you can tell after a few years in London I detest the ill-informed stereotypes of Americans that are prevalent here.
posted by JPD at 5:40 AM on November 17, 2005

Realize when you notice the british stereotypes there are American counterpoints in that episode...

-They are offended by a book that isn't a porno.
-"Peter: (to British Guys) We kicked your ass in World War II & we can do it again!"
--"Peter: “I saw we fight the British and drive them back to whichever country they came from” "

Yes, that's another thing I picked up on at the time - part of the whole weird British thing is an intellectual and cultural anti-snobbishness as if Americans aren't quite sure whether to look down on us or look up to us.

interesting points being made here, keep them coming!
posted by salmacis at 5:48 AM on November 17, 2005

There's a lot of emphasis on negative stereotypes here, but every time I visit the U.S. (Suburban California) I'm terribly flattered by the positive ones. I can't say exactly what they are and they don't make good jokes, but it's fun to be 'English' in the U.S.A. People just seem disposed to like you.
posted by grahamwell at 5:51 AM on November 17, 2005

bad teeth is true. i (37 yo brit) have much "worse" teeth than any non-english person i know of my generation. the teeth are fine - strong, healthy (apart fro one filling and one completely dead due to a bike accident) - but they look crooked, miscoloured and generally jaggedy.

it's the american (and chilean, and...) obsession with cosmetic surgey. everyone (who can afford it) has their teeth "fixed" (made to look pretty). maybe it also happens in the uk these days?

but in general, americans do seem to think the english are their superiors, as others have observed, for some strange reason. an american friend was so happy when i ate food in a certain way (can't remember what i did!) - the fact that an englishman did something "bad" he had been criticised for made him feel it wasn't so bad after all...

(on food - i think american and uk food is comparable and, at low prices, equally bad. although cheap american food is greasy in a homogenized, processed way - that strange yellow cheese - while cheap uk food is (was) greasy in a more "homely" manner ;o).
posted by andrew cooke at 5:59 AM on November 17, 2005

Less than a fifth own a passport, for goodness' sake.

According to whom? The Economist states that 34 percent of Americans over 18 have passports. But amongst Canadians, only a little more—41 percent—have a passport. For goodness' sake! Surely we would be hearing about those ill-informed Canadians as well, if Canada-bashing (a sport that, like American football, is still sadly only popular in the States) were as popular in Europe as U.S.-bashing. But there's a reason that fewer Candians than Europeans have passports, and it's the same as the reason that fewer Americans do. We generally don't need them to go anywhere interesting that we can afford.

I just booked a journey on Ryanair between the UK and Germany. The one-way fare was €0.99, and after taxes the price was €19.07. A Briton would need a passport to take this inexpensive 90-minute journey. I can't even fly between two cities in Texas for that price. But without a passport I could go anywhere in the U.S., which is more than twice the size of the EU, which is as far as most Europeans have used their passports to go anywhere recently. Also without a passport, I could go to Canada, Mexico, several Carribean nations, and far-flung American locales like Alaska and Guam.

For an American, going somewhere that requires a passport requires not only more money and time than for a European, but they have less time to start with. Since Americans get much less paid vacation from their employees, it will be harder for them to dump a big chunk of it in an overseas holiday.
posted by grouse at 6:05 AM on November 17, 2005

an american friend was so happy when i ate food in a certain way

Maybe you cut something and ate it without putting your fork in your right hand first. I tried this as a child and my mom told me it was strange. Now I'm the only person around who does it. Fish out of water, I guess.
posted by grouse at 6:07 AM on November 17, 2005

Maybe you cut something and ate it without putting your fork in your right hand first

Er...what? Why would you be putting your fork in your right hand?
posted by salmacis at 6:11 AM on November 17, 2005

No thread mentioning Brits and their teeth would be complete without a reference to John Lydon.

Actually, I disagree that all American stereotypes are negative. For example, Jews are assumed to be highly educated (doctors, lawyers) and good businessmen. Southerners are assumed to be more polite to strangers. Asians are assumed to be good at math and value education in general. The list goes on, but you get the picture.
posted by TedW at 6:21 AM on November 17, 2005

Maybe you cut something and ate it without putting your fork in your right hand first.

ah, yes, it was somehow related to this. i eat left-handed, which meant i was doing something that involved which hand was doing what.
posted by andrew cooke at 6:24 AM on November 17, 2005

but if Friends go to London it's all upper class accents and so on.

I'd venture a guess that the majority of Americans don't know about the variety of British accents outside of "British" and maybe "Cockney".

Er...what? Why would you be putting your fork in your right hand?

The other way to eat with a knife and fork is to hold the fork in the left hand while steadying the meat being cut, and then to move the fork to the right hand to eat what's on it.
posted by mendel at 6:26 AM on November 17, 2005

It's the southern US shuffle: with knife and fork in right and left hands respectively, one cuts one's food. One then puts down one's knife (on the plate), shuffles the fork from left to right, spears the food and eats it. the fork is then transferred back to the left hand and the right picks the knife back up in preparation for the next bite.

This is considered to be the elegant way to eat one's food. Eating with the fork in one's left hand is considered the height of barbarity.

It looks as bizarre as it sounds if you're not used to it. Also, practitioners take about three times as long to finish a meal.

Also concerning the specific tv programme in question, ROU_Xeno is right: the cartoons are actually making fun of Americans themselves for holding the sterotypical views. It's humour at their own expense.
posted by bonehead at 6:36 AM on November 17, 2005

For example, Chris Morris can do a spoof of CNN that was spot on (to my eyes)

This has more to do with Morris and Iannucci being geniuses than nationality.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 6:50 AM on November 17, 2005

I don't know what part of the "southern US" you may be speaking of, bonehead, but I can assure you that in polite southern company people do not "shuffle" unless they want to look like classless Yankees.

I think mendel hit the nail on the head with the "British" accent issue. Americans have no idea there are differences in regional accents in Britain, hell, most Americans can't tell an Aussie from a Brit, how do you expect them to spot a gargrave?
posted by Pollomacho at 7:06 AM on November 17, 2005

What ROU_Xenphobe said. In shows like Family Guy and The Simpsons the joke is the stereotype. Like Italian cooks who flip pizza dough and say "Mamma mia", Germans with Lederhosen, etc. They're making fun of these ridiculous images.
posted by gubo at 7:25 AM on November 17, 2005

I think every country has silly stereotypes on their TV shows. As an American who has watched a lot of BBC shows, I find the protrayal of Americans to be hilariously awful. They all act like cowboys, have no intelligence or manners, and speak with ridiculously fake sounding (at least to an American ear) American accidents. Kinda like George W, only this stereotype seems to predate his term of office.
posted by unreason at 7:26 AM on November 17, 2005

The one I don't get is "British Reserve". From my experience, the average Brit is more open about sex and less prone to euphemism and less sophomoric about it than the average Yank.
posted by bendybendy at 7:36 AM on November 17, 2005

Why do the British have such odd ideas about the "garlic-loving, snail-eating, skirt-chasing, shoulder-shrugging" French?
posted by kirkaracha at 7:45 AM on November 17, 2005

A source of much of the stereotyping is a strange American TV instituition, Masterpiece Theatre which for thirty years has been pumping out middlebrow costume drama wrapped in cut-glass 'English' accents and revealing a fascination with 'Class'. 'Brideshead Revisited' is the most famous, endlessly repeated on American TV

'Brideshead Revisited' was actually a British (not American) production. It was produced by Granada Television and originally shown on ITV in October 1981. It is true that the series has been rebroadcast on American public television for years.

The television mini-series was the first of a line of British " 'white flannel' dramas, both on television and on the big screen, represent[ing] a yearning for an England that was no more, or never was." Others that followed include Chariots of Fire (1981), A Jewel in the Crown (1982), A Passage to India (1984), A Room with a View (1986).
posted by ericb at 7:47 AM on November 17, 2005

Er...what? Why would you be putting your fork in your right hand?

I can't confirm this, but more than one person has told me that this American custom (cut with fork in left and knife in right, set knife down, switch fork to right) evolved as a protest against British rule, way back in the day. Anyone else heard this?

Also, ROU_Xenophobe is right on. The jokes about stereotypes in The Simpsons and The Family Guy, etc. are more meta than you're giving them credit for. The joke is about the joke about the stereotype. The infamous Simpsons episode where they travel to Brazil being a prime example.

American ideas about the British are bound up with the American Revolution. Yanks' perceptions and misperceptions of the Brits go back a long way, but have been influenced a lot recently by the spate of British upper-class rom-com over the past dozen years or so.
posted by nyterrant at 7:54 AM on November 17, 2005

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Austin Powers. I never heard the joke about bad british teeth until Austin Powers came out and then it seemed to be everywhere, along with many other attempts to emulate various elements of the film. I think the "bad british teeth" thing is just a comedy meme that's more popular than other comedy memes.
posted by GuyZero at 7:57 AM on November 17, 2005

Born in the South, was told to switch the fork back to the right hand before eating cut pieces. When my family went to Britain on vacation, I was informed that Europeans simply don't do it. There was no judgement over the fact, it was just, a cultural difference.
posted by Atreides at 7:58 AM on November 17, 2005

Along with the bad British stereotypes, there are some good ones as well, namely our obsession with "the accent." I have a British co-worker who claims, quite seriously, that no matter what nonsense she says, people here think she's smart because of her accent. Also, look at the movie Love, Actually, where the homely London bloke Colin goes to America to find a girl to sleep with him, and immediately beds 3 gorgeous hotties simultaneously. An exageration, but not by much: I found myself thinking, "Hey, I'd hit it!"

20 years of British rom-coms, and American women have been conditioned to get wet at the first sound of a poncy accent, even from a guy with freckles and bad teeth. We won the revolution, but you won the war, my friends.
posted by junkbox at 8:05 AM on November 17, 2005

more than one person has told me that this American custom (cut with fork in left and knife in right, set knife down, switch fork to right) evolved as a protest against British rule, way back in the day. Anyone else heard this?

No, but it sounds like a typical urban legend. The Wikipedia article on fork etiquette has some other ideas, which I am also skeptical about.
posted by grouse at 8:23 AM on November 17, 2005

ROU_X is correct, the stereotypes were the joke. In fact, I'd wager that this is almost universally true. Not entirely, but almost.

...and I'm still confused by the fork/knife thing. I'm pretty sure they think I'm a barbarian in both the South and Europe, but I've always been a sort of "ah, screw 'em" sort of person when it comes to utensil etiquette.
posted by aramaic at 8:26 AM on November 17, 2005

My favorite conflict of stereotypes: American infomercials for shitty consumer products (as opposed to ones for investment opportunities for idiots) invariably has some Brit presenting the product to an American who is just learning about it.

The odd thing is that the Brit always has a northern accent. Does anybody remember the woman from Lancashire who was pushing the Spacebags? Or "Mick" who is currently pushing the Magic Bullet food processor? His accent is less distinct, but he's definitely northern.

There was a guy who sold some magic defrosting plate and had a westcountry accent. Seriously. And presumably he was hired because his accent sounded sophisiticated and knowledgeable to americans.
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:38 AM on November 17, 2005

grouse:

Also without a passport, I could go to Canada, Mexico, several Carribean nations

Actually that's not at all true. And funnily enough you just so happen to be reinforcing another stereotype: "Americans are so dumb/arrogant they think they don't need passports to go to Canada/Mexico/etc".

My wife used to be a travel agent and constantly had to deal with Americans trying to visit Canada/Mexico without passports. Mexico, I believe, allows alternative forms of documentation, such as birth certificates and naturalisation documents but since when is it more convenient to carry those around?
posted by schwa at 8:51 AM on November 17, 2005

Why? Because as blag implies and grouse verifies, Americans don't travel abroad much. Check the great percentage of responses here -- it's not direct experience -- instead, what they see on TV.

I was also made aware of the teeth thing by Austin Powers (the film's advertising, actually -- I avoid that sort of movie). Prior to, I thought it was only the Japanese foisted with that stereotype (cf. wartime propaganda).
posted by Rash at 8:56 AM on November 17, 2005

Mexico, I believe, allows alternative forms of documentation, such as birth certificates and naturalisation documents

Canada does too (at least at the Ambassador Bridge between Detroit and Windsor).
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 9:00 AM on November 17, 2005

In the US all stereotypes are intentionally insulting. Their intention is degradation.

Don't be an ass. All countries/peoples have stereotypes of others, and their "intent" is the same everywhere: some mix of humor, putdown, and self-affirmation. The interesting thing about American stereotypes of Britain, as has been noted above, is that they're so positive, by and large: Americans still feel, on some level, inferior. The level of royalty-worship in the US also amazes me, considering we fought a war to get away from the British monarchy.

And yeah, Brits do have bad teeth by comparison. Poor example.
posted by languagehat at 9:01 AM on November 17, 2005

grouse:

Also without a passport, I could go to Canada, Mexico, several Carribean nations

Actually that's not at all true.

Actually, by the information in your very post that is exactly true. I know I've been to both countries without my passport. Dumb American.
posted by Falconetti at 9:05 AM on November 17, 2005

Also without a passport, I could go to Canada, Mexico, several Carribean nations

Actually that's not at all true.

Considering the number of times I have visited Mexico without a passport, this is a funny thing to assert. I guess the border guards both ways were just sleeping on the job each time, eh?

And funnily enough you just so happen to be reinforcing another stereotype: "Americans are so dumb/arrogant they think they don't need passports to go to Canada/Mexico/etc".

Here are U.S. State Department consular information sheets verifying that you do not need a passport to go to Mexico or Canada, although it is "recommended." Guess the U.S. State Department is dumb and arrogant too, and perpetuates dumbness and arrogance amongst Americans!

Thanks for demonstrating once again how unwarranted American-bashing can be! Hope you enjoyed calling us dumb and arrogant; too bad it didn't work out; better luck next time!
posted by grouse at 9:11 AM on November 17, 2005

I can't think about this without thinking of the Double Deckers. A perfect example of a joint Anglo/American TV production which carefully exploited stereotypes, in both directions, to win affection (and childhood ratings). TV and movies have long been careful to feed the preconceptions, just as everywhere in Paris has a view of the Eiffel Tower, every London house is a gabled Victorian pile swirling in fog. It works, these films sell. Even now there's more than a trace of the Double Deckers in our current favourite Limey Runt.
posted by grahamwell at 9:12 AM on November 17, 2005

it just doesn't seem particularly apt.

Um, it's American.
posted by dobbs at 9:39 AM on November 17, 2005

Actually that's not at all true. And funnily enough you just so happen to be reinforcing another stereotype: "Americans are so dumb/arrogant they think they don't need passports to go to Canada/Mexico/etc"

I have successfully traveled from the US to the Bahamas, Jamaica, the Cayman Islands, Mexico, and Canada with nothing other than a birth certificate and driver's license. Canada three to five times a year for the last several years.

The advantage of a b/c is that I already have one around, so it's effectively free, and even if I lost it I could get a new one overnighted for like $25, which is cheaper than a passport.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:25 AM on November 17, 2005

Well, I mean, I had clothes and stuff too. I wasn't just this nekkid barefoot dude hopefully holding up his b/c and d/l at the border.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:26 AM on November 17, 2005

Oh, I think it cuts both ways. I've lived in Britain a couple of times -- most recently in the early '90s -- and I was amused by the fact that so many people seemed pretty sincerely convinced that Dallas and Dynasty represented the typical American lifestyle.

Also, since I grew up in Colorado and Wyoming, I used to love telling people I rode a horse to school with a shotgun strapped to my back in case I got ambushed by Indians. I lost count of the number of people who believed me (till I cracked a smile, of course).
posted by scody at 10:46 AM on November 17, 2005

I heard reports that they're going to start requiring passports for going between the US and Canada but last time I went to Windsor (through the tunnel) it was not required (though a birth certificate was) and before that when I went through Port Huron as part of a busload of high school students & a few teachers they came on and said "All of you American citizens?" "Yeah" and the usual where you're going, how long, etc. and that was it. No IDs at all. One year one of the people going with was not an American (or Canadian) citizen and had to show papers.

As for stereotypes -- what you see on Family Guy, The Simpsons, or even Fark are not stereotypes anyone really believes, they're stereotypes of stereotypes. I mean, one of my favorite ethnic stereotypes on The Simpsons was when a busload of Italian tourists when past their place and it turned into a spoof on Mario Brothers. It's not something to be taken seriously.

Although the German guy who would. not. shut up about all the things Americans got wrong was pretty good....
posted by dagnyscott at 11:46 AM on November 17, 2005

My favorite is the "Team Homer" episode where one of the bowling teams is the Stereotypes (Willie, Cletus, Captain McAllister, Luigi). When Apu says bitterly "They begged me to join their team," it's one of the great moments of television comedy.
posted by languagehat at 11:56 AM on November 17, 2005

You can get a new Birth Certificate sent to you overnight for $25? No wonder identity theft is so common. Seriously, how does that work?
posted by AmbroseChapel at 12:03 PM on November 17, 2005

I was amused by the fact that so many people seemed pretty sincerely convinced that Dallas and Dynasty represented the typical American lifestyle.

Pfft. I take it you were hanging out with people who were subnormal, high, or both?

I have to take issue with the idea expressed above that American stereotypes are wholly denigrating; quite the opposite.

I have bad teeth, a fairly posh RP-ish, albeit recognisably Northern, accent, a tendecy to stutter and much more of a tendency to be foul-mouthed, am rather camp, and can confirm that Americans bloody love it when you conform to these particular stereotypes. To the extent that I got tables in restaurants before folk who had been waiting, the odd free coffee, people being bizarrely nice to me etc., all just for talking in my charming 'British' accent. This was not long after Four Weddings And A Funeral came out, so I suspect I owe Hugh Grant a thank you.

The one (posh) American stereotype I found to be true, and profoundly disturbing, was that everyone seemed to be in therapy and perfectly happy to talk about intensely personal aspects of that therapy - please don't do that in front of the British, it makes us want to run away. Especially if you've just made us a cup of undrinkable slops when we were expecting tea.
posted by jack_mo at 12:09 PM on November 17, 2005

Ambrose: Hah. I ordered a new birth certificate a few weeks ago, and it cost me £7. All I needed to do was to send a letter with information such as my DOB, parents name, etc. I can't believe a birth certificate can ever be a good proof of identity.

languagehat: No, for me what is interesting about the American stereotype of the British is not that it's mainly positive (although elements of it probably are). What was interesting to me, and the reason why I asked the question, is why is it so wrong?
posted by salmacis at 12:10 PM on November 17, 2005

"Yes, it's a cliche but, yes, I've been asked if I know the Queen by Americans. Princess Diana too."

Because we're FUCKING WITH YOU. Jeez, you Brits.
posted by klangklangston at 12:16 PM on November 17, 2005

Mexico, I believe, allows alternative forms of documentation, such as birth certificates and naturalisation documents but since when is it more convenient to carry those around?

1) most Americans have a birth certificate; 2) most Americans don't have a passport. It's far more convenient to carry something you have than something you don't. Why go to the expense and hassle of obtaining a passport if you don't need to?
posted by kindall at 12:19 PM on November 17, 2005

Pfft. I take it you were hanging out with people who were subnormal, high, or both?

Subnormal? Well, I dunno -- this was at University of East Anglia, so you tell me. ;) As for high: well, it was university...
posted by scody at 12:39 PM on November 17, 2005

Don't be an ass.

He can't help it, he's British. You know how stuffy they are.

Actually, stereotypes of the English depend upon where you picked them up. If you get them from romantic comedies, you're likely to see them as prissy nancy-boys with posh accents. If you get them from rock and roll, you'll see them as foul-mouth drunken yobbos. If you get them from sports, you'll see them as insane soccer hooligans. There's a stereotype for every taste.
posted by jonmc at 12:42 PM on November 17, 2005

Also, for some reason, in NYC West Village there's an area featuring several Brit themed stores and restaurants. The staff dosen't sound like Hugh Grant or the Royal Family, more like The Young Ones. They do all have pretty bad teeth, but then again mine areen't so great either.
posted by jonmc at 12:44 PM on November 17, 2005

Aha—I knew you were a Brit!
posted by languagehat at 12:45 PM on November 17, 2005

Various bits: I've crossed the US/Canada border oodles of times with only a drivers license.
I was born in England, but raised in Canada. When I tell people (especially girls) that I'm british they immediately ask me to do the accent, followed by a remark about how sexy they find british accents. I'm unfortunately not the in a position to take advantage of that, but it is the truth nonetheless.
As for the teeth thing, I won't say anything except, oh man, don't go to france, I can't even describe the dental horrors I've seen there. <shudder/>
posted by blue_beetle at 12:46 PM on November 17, 2005

Aha—I knew you were a Brit!

I'm an Irishman. Them's fightin' words.
posted by jonmc at 12:48 PM on November 17, 2005

You can get a new Birth Certificate sent to you overnight for $25? No wonder identity theft is so common. Seriously, how does that work?

I phone the relevant government agency, say that I want a birth certificate for me, born on this day in this location to my mother's name and my father's name. Then they print and send it.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:56 PM on November 17, 2005

This was not long after Four Weddings And A Funeral came out, so I suspect I owe Hugh Grant a thank you...

...if it weren't for the exorbitant prices now charged Englishmen by the "ladies" on the Sunset Strip.
posted by Pollomacho at 1:05 PM on November 17, 2005

It's worth clarifying the US/Can boarder passage thing a bit. I fly south fairly often and most airlines won't let you enter the plane without a valid passport. On the other hand, I can drive down to Watertown with only my driver's licence as ID most of the time. ID is often not even checked returning to Canada ("Yer from Ottawa? Welcome home!").
posted by bonehead at 1:18 PM on November 17, 2005

Re: accents. I think it's fair to say that the average American doesn't have any serious feel for the various regional British accents-I certainly don't, and I've visited the UK/Ireland several times, and watched any amount of British TV. That's not to say they can't distinguish between them, just that they can't name them or recognize what geographic or socioeconomic significance they have.

In fairness, though, I doubt the British have any feel for American accents, either (beyond, perhaps "Southern/Texan" and "everything else"). A native of Pittsburgh and a native of Philadelphia sound significantly different, but I doubt many people in the UK could tell which is which, or what that might imply about the speaker.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:20 PM on November 17, 2005

I doubt the British have any feel for American accents, either (beyond, perhaps "Southern/Texan" and "everything else").

Yeah, I've noticed that when British comedians do an "American Accent," they tend to do a "dumb California dude," one most often. Not sure why.
posted by jonmc at 1:29 PM on November 17, 2005

Yeah, I've noticed that when British comedians do an "American Accent," they tend to do a "dumb California dude," one most often. Not sure why.

Yeah. That, The Southerner, or an over-deliberate, pronounce-every-letter accent that sounds vaguely midwestern or canadian if it sounds american at all.
posted by Mayor Curley at 2:50 PM on November 17, 2005

On the food front: Yes, (some or many) Americans switch the fork from hand to hand when eating meat. Maybe not in the South--I've never been--but in California and New York, everyone I've known does. We do not, however, use our forks to eat pizza. Also, what you think of as "American" food is not necessarily what all Americans eat at home: many people still eat the Americanized version of food from wherever their ancestors emigrated. That is, I grew up eating Americanized Italian food; some of my friends had Indian food, etc. Compared to that, boiled veggies and meat is kinda gross (and when I visit the UK, the veggies are still most often boiled).

As for reserve, it seems that the Brits I've met are not as outwardly, hand-graspingly friendly as Americans. So it appears as reserve.

But yeah, the accent is hot for no discernible reason and the shows were making fun of Americans. And you may not want to greet Americans travelling abroad with your worst American stereotypes, because if we're out there and not on a tour, chances are we find it annoying that our countryfolk can be poorly informed too.
posted by dame at 4:02 PM on November 17, 2005

dame: boiled veggies and meat is kinda gross

Well this brit agrees with you, if by that you mean "boiled veggies and boiled meat is kinda gross". When I was growing up, my irish mum would boil bacon (and virtually everything else!), but outside of pre-war films, no-one (I think that I mean no-one) boils meat here anymore.
Course, you may just have meant "meat, and boiled veggies is kinda gross". In which case, ignore my contribution. I couldn't bear the idea that any yanks were gonna get the wrong impression about british cuisine (and that's not a phrase I grew up hearing, lemme tell ya.)
posted by dash_slot- at 4:21 PM on November 17, 2005

I sound British, but don't look British, being British-Chinese.

When I spent a year in Louisiana on an academic exchange, I got myself a slot on KLSU 91.1FM. Those were the days. Cute American ladies on the phone (the accent admiration works both ways), asking me to go to a bar. I'd get there, and see said woman walking in looking for Hugh Grant. (He was *the* Brit to emulate in those days). Then they'd get a Chinese guy instead. Still had fun times.

Doesn't quite work so well these days. Must be Bush's anti-international isolationist policies. ;)
posted by badlydubbedboy at 5:27 PM on November 17, 2005

Well, dash_slot-, I would say that the way it was is clear since no one in her right mind boils meat, but apparently I was wrong. So it should be "meat and boiled veggies" sans comma. Because that's just overkill.
posted by dame at 7:05 PM on November 17, 2005

It is my favorite thing in the world to hear a Brit (Or Aussie, or NZlander) do an American accent. I could listen to that for hours. I don't know why.

Someone do one now...
posted by Jesse H Christ at 8:17 PM on November 20, 2005

And yes, all of the above accents make me turn to jello inside. Hot.
posted by Jesse H Christ at 8:18 PM on November 20, 2005

Not to derail too much, but one of my favorite things to ask someone from the UK to do is to speak with an American accent. They invariably sound like a cowboy or a gameshow host. So what's up with that?
posted by piratebowling at 7:31 AM on March 16, 2006