Disallowing non-US Paypal account from bidding on my eBay auctions?
September 20, 2013 9:15 PM Subscribe
Am I being a dick for not allowing bidders with non-US Paypal accounts from bidding and paying for my eBay auctions?
I just started selling my crap on eBay, and am overly paranoid about getting ripped off by bidders who win my "US bidders only" auctions.
I state clearly in my auctions that I don't ship to international addresses (this is mostly for convenience reasons, but I also assume this hard-line stance makes me less susceptible to reverse bait and switch scams).
But lately, I have also started saying that I don't accept payments from non-US Paypal accounts, which is sometimes a pain in the ass, because even though I block bidders with international shipping addresses, eBay still allows bidders who may have a US shipping address, but a non-US Paypal account from bidding on (and often winning) my auctions. It's annoying to have to cancel the transaction and relist the auction, or wait for losing bidders to accept my Second Chance Offers.
To be honest, I don't have a good reason (based on known eBay/Paypal policies) to have this non-US Paypal account policy, other than my possibly incorrect assumption that blocking non-US Paypal payments protects me further from possible fraudulent bidders.
Am I being overly paranoid?
I just started selling my crap on eBay, and am overly paranoid about getting ripped off by bidders who win my "US bidders only" auctions.
I state clearly in my auctions that I don't ship to international addresses (this is mostly for convenience reasons, but I also assume this hard-line stance makes me less susceptible to reverse bait and switch scams).
But lately, I have also started saying that I don't accept payments from non-US Paypal accounts, which is sometimes a pain in the ass, because even though I block bidders with international shipping addresses, eBay still allows bidders who may have a US shipping address, but a non-US Paypal account from bidding on (and often winning) my auctions. It's annoying to have to cancel the transaction and relist the auction, or wait for losing bidders to accept my Second Chance Offers.
To be honest, I don't have a good reason (based on known eBay/Paypal policies) to have this non-US Paypal account policy, other than my possibly incorrect assumption that blocking non-US Paypal payments protects me further from possible fraudulent bidders.
Am I being overly paranoid?
I canceled an auction a few years ago because I was going to have to spend $100 to ship a $200 item to Brazil. It is not paranoid to avoid similar complications and potential mishaps.
posted by oceanjesse at 9:24 PM on September 20, 2013
posted by oceanjesse at 9:24 PM on September 20, 2013
Yeah, back when I sold a buncha stuff on eBay, I kept it US only. Not worth the hassle of shipping overseas. It's your stuff, you get to decide how to sell it.
posted by gnutron at 9:30 PM on September 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by gnutron at 9:30 PM on September 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't think you are doing anything wrong, but it annoys me as a Canadian. But you can set your policies as you see fit, per PayPal terms.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 9:47 PM on September 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 9:47 PM on September 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
As a Canadian I find this super frustrating and kind of dickish.
posted by Jairus at 10:28 PM on September 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Jairus at 10:28 PM on September 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'm an Australian with an Australian PayPal account, and I buy things from US sellers (eBay and retail) and send them to a shipping consolidator in the US, who bundles them into a bigger package and sends them to me. I do this because a lot of books, media and clothes have better choice and are cheaper this way, even allowing for postage. You have every right to choose not to do business with me, but I'd really appreciate it if you put "US PayPal Accounts Only" prominently in your terms and conditions - it's really annoying to win an auction and then find out you won't take my money, or to have you cancel my payment later because you won't ship to a consolidator. I'm not sure whether the volume of business you exclude (from people like me, expats living in the US, etc.) is more valuable than avoiding a perceived extra risk of being scammed - up to you to decide. But yes, like the commenters above, I find it pretty annoying.
posted by Cheese Monster at 10:49 PM on September 20, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by Cheese Monster at 10:49 PM on September 20, 2013 [5 favorites]
I frequently sell on eBay and I always specify in my auctions that I only ship to the U.S. and Canada. Too much of a PITA beyond there, so unless it is a very special time I'm selling for a rather high value, I won't change it.
posted by arnicae at 12:42 AM on September 21, 2013
posted by arnicae at 12:42 AM on September 21, 2013
The main thing I dislike about shipping internationally is having to deal with the customs forms and figure out whether there's some restriction or duty, in the country I'm shipping to, on the type of item I'm shipping. For inexpensive items it's just not worth the time it takes to mess with the red tape. I also think it depends on what you're selling. For whatever reason, consumer electronics seem to be popular scam targets.
I've been selling on eBay occasionally for almost 14 years now, even back before eBay owned PayPal, when some buyers paid by check of money order and the current buyer and seller protection systems didn't exist. I have shipped a few items to Canada and overseas, and never been successfully ripped off, domestically or internationally. I always use the bid restrictions to fend off buyers with recent unpaid item strikes, and for scam-prone items (e.g. a laptop) I look over the buyer's feedback history to get a sense of their reliability before I print a shipping label. I cancelled one sale that was an obvious scam (international address when I'd specifically said I wouldn't ship internationally, and a buyer with no feedback whose account had been created the same day), but that's it.
posted by jon1270 at 12:56 AM on September 21, 2013
I've been selling on eBay occasionally for almost 14 years now, even back before eBay owned PayPal, when some buyers paid by check of money order and the current buyer and seller protection systems didn't exist. I have shipped a few items to Canada and overseas, and never been successfully ripped off, domestically or internationally. I always use the bid restrictions to fend off buyers with recent unpaid item strikes, and for scam-prone items (e.g. a laptop) I look over the buyer's feedback history to get a sense of their reliability before I print a shipping label. I cancelled one sale that was an obvious scam (international address when I'd specifically said I wouldn't ship internationally, and a buyer with no feedback whose account had been created the same day), but that's it.
posted by jon1270 at 12:56 AM on September 21, 2013
As long as you make this explicitly clear to someone, I don't see the issue. Nobody has a right to buy from someone just because the other person is selling something.
posted by Solomon at 3:23 AM on September 21, 2013
posted by Solomon at 3:23 AM on September 21, 2013
Best answer: You say you don't ship to international addresses because of the convenience factor, but it sounds like your extension of that policy to not transact with buyers who have a US address but international PayPal account is an *in*convenience factor.
Is there a reason why you think a foreign PayPal account is more likely to be able to scam you?
Let's assume that your domestic address/foreign Paypal buyers are going through a shipping consolidator to have a wider selection and to save a little money on shipping. Are these going to be the concerns of a scammer? No--what would be the incentive of a foreign scammer to deal with a shipping consolidator?
(1) It seems that it would be easy enough to only target sellers who already offer foreign shipping, and within their targeted class of merchandise it's not like they have narrow needs for specific items that would necessitate expanding the pool to include US-only shippers.
(2) Furthermore, their goal is to get all their payment refunded, and if they go through a consolidator they are likely to only get the ebay portion of their purchase outlay refunded; whatever they pay to the consolidator will be lost (I imagine it's a lot easier to get a refund on ebay for "my item never arrived" or "it was the wrong thing" than it is to get a refund from a shipping consolidator).
The above would lead me to believe (though it certainly doesn't prove) that a foreign buyer using a foreign paypal account and a US address is unlikely to be a scammer.
(a lot of the answers above seem to think you're talking about the shipping issue, not the paypal issue)
posted by drlith at 4:42 AM on September 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
Is there a reason why you think a foreign PayPal account is more likely to be able to scam you?
Let's assume that your domestic address/foreign Paypal buyers are going through a shipping consolidator to have a wider selection and to save a little money on shipping. Are these going to be the concerns of a scammer? No--what would be the incentive of a foreign scammer to deal with a shipping consolidator?
(1) It seems that it would be easy enough to only target sellers who already offer foreign shipping, and within their targeted class of merchandise it's not like they have narrow needs for specific items that would necessitate expanding the pool to include US-only shippers.
(2) Furthermore, their goal is to get all their payment refunded, and if they go through a consolidator they are likely to only get the ebay portion of their purchase outlay refunded; whatever they pay to the consolidator will be lost (I imagine it's a lot easier to get a refund on ebay for "my item never arrived" or "it was the wrong thing" than it is to get a refund from a shipping consolidator).
The above would lead me to believe (though it certainly doesn't prove) that a foreign buyer using a foreign paypal account and a US address is unlikely to be a scammer.
(a lot of the answers above seem to think you're talking about the shipping issue, not the paypal issue)
posted by drlith at 4:42 AM on September 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
You're probably getting less money for your items if you restrict the number of bidders... so, basically, you're imposing a cash penalty on yourself. But if you're satisfied with the amount of money you're getting for your stuff, then carry on. Nobody is making you sell to anybody.
As a Canadian who uses a brother-in-law as a US mail drop for the convenience of US sellers, it would annoy me greatly if you didn't spell out your policy clearly in the auction. I don't want to waste my time bidding up the price of your item for you and then discover you won't let me have it.
posted by Mary Ellen Carter at 5:04 AM on September 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
As a Canadian who uses a brother-in-law as a US mail drop for the convenience of US sellers, it would annoy me greatly if you didn't spell out your policy clearly in the auction. I don't want to waste my time bidding up the price of your item for you and then discover you won't let me have it.
posted by Mary Ellen Carter at 5:04 AM on September 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Am I being overly paranoid?
Yes. PayPal is paranoid enough without you adding to the mix. There is no way anyone can scam you with an international PayPal address that they can't scam you with a U.S. PayPal address.
posted by Etrigan at 5:31 AM on September 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yes. PayPal is paranoid enough without you adding to the mix. There is no way anyone can scam you with an international PayPal address that they can't scam you with a U.S. PayPal address.
posted by Etrigan at 5:31 AM on September 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
The only caution I have about taking non-US Paypal accounts, and specifically those where the buyer is shipping to a US address, is that if you ship an item to an address other than the address associated with the account (the verified address), you lose a lot of the protections Paypal provides if the item gets lost in the mail. That's what I'd worry about. But the solution to that is to make clear that you ship only to verified addresses, not to bar non-US Paypal accounts.
posted by decathecting at 5:36 AM on September 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by decathecting at 5:36 AM on September 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm in Mexico and I buy a lot of stuff online, mainly from Amazon or clothing stores. I have everything sent to a US address so there is no pain-in-the-ass factor on the shipping end. Websites who don't permit international credit cards or Paypal, just-because, are a big PITA to me. If I've already been "vetted" by Visa, mastercard, Amex or Paypal, simply denying my payment because it's non- US seems unnecesarily dickish.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 8:38 AM on September 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by CrazyLemonade at 8:38 AM on September 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: A number of commenters appear to be missing the distinction between whether you're willing to ship internationally and whether you're willing to accept a non-US form of payment to ship to a US address (the latter being what this question is about, as far as I can see).
posted by Cheese Monster at 4:27 PM on September 21, 2013
posted by Cheese Monster at 4:27 PM on September 21, 2013
Another Canadian (with a US shipping address) greatly irritated by this. If you are going to stick with it spell it out in the listing because I am tired of "watching" listings, going off to snipe, and finding myself blocked.
in re.
I was going to have to spend $100 to ship a $200 item to Brazil
...sometimes, we non-USAians just want the thing, and are cool with the idea that a third of its price will be shipping. Do know that you are losing money by avoiding non-US purchases. I have been selling on eBay since 1998 and have had all sorts of people really happy to fork out to get a whatever-brand XYZ into Australia or Austria despite big shipping costs. Different things cost different amounts of money in different countries. I just spent $25 to get two bottles of OTC medication sent to me in Canada because even with the shipping rip-off, it was still way cheaper to buy it from the US. Anyway, I add that on mostly so you understand part of why people not living in the US would be eager to pay you from non-US PayPal accounts -- there are lots of non-swindle situations where it occurs.
posted by kmennie at 6:48 PM on September 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
in re.
I was going to have to spend $100 to ship a $200 item to Brazil
...sometimes, we non-USAians just want the thing, and are cool with the idea that a third of its price will be shipping. Do know that you are losing money by avoiding non-US purchases. I have been selling on eBay since 1998 and have had all sorts of people really happy to fork out to get a whatever-brand XYZ into Australia or Austria despite big shipping costs. Different things cost different amounts of money in different countries. I just spent $25 to get two bottles of OTC medication sent to me in Canada because even with the shipping rip-off, it was still way cheaper to buy it from the US. Anyway, I add that on mostly so you understand part of why people not living in the US would be eager to pay you from non-US PayPal accounts -- there are lots of non-swindle situations where it occurs.
posted by kmennie at 6:48 PM on September 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
I've bought and sold many things on ebay for 15 years and have 100% feedback, and I live in Australia.
Because of stupid business decisions, foreigners sometimes have no option but to buy stuff via ebay (e.g. consumer electronics that is never released internationally) and are consequently prepared to pay more than domestic purchasers and pay high shipping charges.
I suggest you would have no hassle or downside to accepting any paypal country, but only shipping to registered addresses in the US.
If you want to eliminate some fraud, use the bidder controls to prevent those with poor/low feedback bidding.
posted by bystander at 9:31 PM on September 22, 2013
Because of stupid business decisions, foreigners sometimes have no option but to buy stuff via ebay (e.g. consumer electronics that is never released internationally) and are consequently prepared to pay more than domestic purchasers and pay high shipping charges.
I suggest you would have no hassle or downside to accepting any paypal country, but only shipping to registered addresses in the US.
If you want to eliminate some fraud, use the bidder controls to prevent those with poor/low feedback bidding.
posted by bystander at 9:31 PM on September 22, 2013
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by oceanjesse at 9:23 PM on September 20, 2013 [4 favorites]