Please don't sue me! Also, you're an asshole.
August 5, 2013 11:20 AM Subscribe
My wonderful, elderly German Shepherd bit someone today. The person approached my dog very fast - on a fucking bike - and, what it looked like to me, tried to pet/grab my dogs face. My dog growled and bit him. More after the jump.
I've seen this guy around before, and he has pat my dog on the butt while riding by. Not a fan, but a lot of sketchy guys in my neighborhood approach my dog, and there isn't a ton that I can do about it. Usually it's not a problem, and my dog and I have befriended some motorcycle mechanics, homeless dudes, and other wandering old men. Others, we avoid.
Today, this guy rode by, tried to pet my dog but this time on the face, and poor old dog was like WTF? and bit him.
It doesn't look like it was a major bite at all, but it did break the skin. The guy stopped, I talked to him, and he asked if the dog was up on his shots. I said that he was and yelled at him for being an idiot, and then went inside. (I think I said, "I'm sorry, man, but don't grab a dog's face while you're riding quickly on a bike." But I don't remember exactly).
And then I went inside and freaked out. If this guy approached my dog, in a dumbassy kind of way, and got bit, can he sue me?
I've seen this guy around before, and he has pat my dog on the butt while riding by. Not a fan, but a lot of sketchy guys in my neighborhood approach my dog, and there isn't a ton that I can do about it. Usually it's not a problem, and my dog and I have befriended some motorcycle mechanics, homeless dudes, and other wandering old men. Others, we avoid.
Today, this guy rode by, tried to pet my dog but this time on the face, and poor old dog was like WTF? and bit him.
It doesn't look like it was a major bite at all, but it did break the skin. The guy stopped, I talked to him, and he asked if the dog was up on his shots. I said that he was and yelled at him for being an idiot, and then went inside. (I think I said, "I'm sorry, man, but don't grab a dog's face while you're riding quickly on a bike." But I don't remember exactly).
And then I went inside and freaked out. If this guy approached my dog, in a dumbassy kind of way, and got bit, can he sue me?
This post was deleted for the following reason: poster's request -- cortex
Best answer: He can sue you if he wants to. Whether he reached out to grab your dog may or may not be a factor in whether a he wins, but no one's going to even determine if that actually happened until after you've been sued (should that actually happen). Also, yelling at the guy who your dog just bit is not helping your chances of not getting sued.
He almost certainly won't sue you. Normal people don't spend thousands of dollars and months of hassle to deal with a minor injury that will heal on its own in a few days.
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 11:24 AM on August 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
He almost certainly won't sue you. Normal people don't spend thousands of dollars and months of hassle to deal with a minor injury that will heal on its own in a few days.
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 11:24 AM on August 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
If this guy approached my dog, in a dumbassy kind of way, and got bit, can he sue me?
IANAL, but from everything I've heard from actual lawyers, anyone can sue anyone else, for anything they so desire. For example, there's absolutely nothing preventing me from suing you for having bad breath.
posted by deadmessenger at 11:25 AM on August 5, 2013
IANAL, but from everything I've heard from actual lawyers, anyone can sue anyone else, for anything they so desire. For example, there's absolutely nothing preventing me from suing you for having bad breath.
posted by deadmessenger at 11:25 AM on August 5, 2013
Best answer: Wait for him to make the next move on whether he's going to sue you -- which he probably won't, and if he does, talk to a lawyer immediately.
Next time you see him, subtly put yourself between him and the dog. Don't talk to him about it ever, even years from now. If he brings it up ("Whoa, I better ride on the other side of the street! Ha ha!"), ignore him. Don't even smile. If he engages you in any other way, be polite but a little standoffish, and maintain control of the dog.
Which, I note for the record, you have not provided any pictures of, which is a flagrant violation of the rules.
posted by Etrigan at 11:29 AM on August 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Next time you see him, subtly put yourself between him and the dog. Don't talk to him about it ever, even years from now. If he brings it up ("Whoa, I better ride on the other side of the street! Ha ha!"), ignore him. Don't even smile. If he engages you in any other way, be polite but a little standoffish, and maintain control of the dog.
Which, I note for the record, you have not provided any pictures of, which is a flagrant violation of the rules.
posted by Etrigan at 11:29 AM on August 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Ok, my heart rate is going down a bit, but I suppose my real question is:
Is there anything I can do to protect me and my dog down the road from this guy trying to sue us again?
(Or even just coming by to hassle me? I think he works at the motorcycle shop down the street, and while some of those guys are cool, some are creepy as fuck and I want them to stay away).
Didn't really yell at the guy, but got pretty angry. Definitely did not offer to let him come in and wash out the wound because I felt a bit threatened. This was about twenty minutes ago.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 11:29 AM on August 5, 2013
Is there anything I can do to protect me and my dog down the road from this guy trying to sue us again?
(Or even just coming by to hassle me? I think he works at the motorcycle shop down the street, and while some of those guys are cool, some are creepy as fuck and I want them to stay away).
Didn't really yell at the guy, but got pretty angry. Definitely did not offer to let him come in and wash out the wound because I felt a bit threatened. This was about twenty minutes ago.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 11:29 AM on August 5, 2013
Response by poster: Which, I note for the record, you have not provided any pictures of, which is a flagrant violation of the rules.
There's a shitload of pictures in my previous dog questions if you want to dig, but I'm not sure that it's a good idea to post them here.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 11:30 AM on August 5, 2013
There's a shitload of pictures in my previous dog questions if you want to dig, but I'm not sure that it's a good idea to post them here.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 11:30 AM on August 5, 2013
You should probably check your local laws regarding their classification of "dangerous dogs"-- they're definitely not always fair to the dogs, and some areas take bites (multiple bites) very seriously. Given that, you should definitely keep your dog away from this dude in the future, even if it means annoyances like crossing the street.
Is there anything I can do to protect me and my dog down the road from this guy trying to sue us again?
Keeping your dog as far away from him as possible. Not engaging him at all. Training your dog around situations like bikers and fast-moving people. Worst case, muzzling him near them.
posted by jetlagaddict at 11:31 AM on August 5, 2013
Is there anything I can do to protect me and my dog down the road from this guy trying to sue us again?
Keeping your dog as far away from him as possible. Not engaging him at all. Training your dog around situations like bikers and fast-moving people. Worst case, muzzling him near them.
posted by jetlagaddict at 11:31 AM on August 5, 2013
Response by poster: Given that, you should definitely keep your dog away from this dude in the future, even if it means annoyances like crossing the street.
I will stop thread-sitting, and dear god, I really should've waited longer to post this, but this happened right outside my house. And the guy works down the block.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 11:33 AM on August 5, 2013
I will stop thread-sitting, and dear god, I really should've waited longer to post this, but this happened right outside my house. And the guy works down the block.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 11:33 AM on August 5, 2013
Best answer: For example, there's absolutely nothing preventing me from suing you for having bad breath.
While anyone can file a complaint, there are also protections against frivolous lawsuits. In federal court you can be sanctioned under Rule 11 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, and most if not all states have analogous rules in place.
In this case, what will prevent this guy from suing is probably that he won't have damages beyond possibly the fee for a doctor's visit, and the court costs and attorney fees would add up to more than that, combined with the uncertainty of winning.
Probably the best thing you can do to protect yourself now and if this happens in the future is to get the contact information of anyone nearby who saw what happened and would be willing to give a witness statement to the police or in court.
posted by payoto at 11:36 AM on August 5, 2013
While anyone can file a complaint, there are also protections against frivolous lawsuits. In federal court you can be sanctioned under Rule 11 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, and most if not all states have analogous rules in place.
In this case, what will prevent this guy from suing is probably that he won't have damages beyond possibly the fee for a doctor's visit, and the court costs and attorney fees would add up to more than that, combined with the uncertainty of winning.
Probably the best thing you can do to protect yourself now and if this happens in the future is to get the contact information of anyone nearby who saw what happened and would be willing to give a witness statement to the police or in court.
posted by payoto at 11:36 AM on August 5, 2013
Best answer: In addition to getting witness information, you could write down everything that happened while you remember it: where you were standing, what he was wearing, how fast he was going, who said what, what your dog did, how you were holding the leash, etc. Yes, you won't remember it perfectly, but you will remember a lot better than you will in a month or a year.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 11:41 AM on August 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 11:41 AM on August 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Best answer: You are in California? This is not legal advice, but Civil Code sections 3342 (dog bites generally, provocation by the victim may be a defense) and 3342.5 (applies after your dog has ever bitten someone) may be of interest to you. Honestly, you may find it worth talking to a lawyer to protect yourself and your dog, particularly if you think these guys are baiting you.
posted by payoto at 11:46 AM on August 5, 2013
posted by payoto at 11:46 AM on August 5, 2013
Response by poster: Okay, less freaked out now.
I talked to a lawyer - my dad, ha! - but I'm going to talk to someone who practices in CA as soon as I can.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 11:48 AM on August 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
I talked to a lawyer - my dad, ha! - but I'm going to talk to someone who practices in CA as soon as I can.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 11:48 AM on August 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
My dog doesn't chase people on bikes who don't approach him, and he was on leash.
Why was your dog close enough to be touched? Did the biker swerve toward your dog? Did your dog go towards the biker? Is the road/sidewalk too narrow for both a bike and a dog? I wonder if his intention was not to perform a high-speed face petting maneuver, but to attempt to get some space between himself and the dog.
I would strongly recommend keeping your dog out of reach of cyclists and pedestrians. Even if your dog isn't biting the cyclist, they certainly don't want a leash caught up in their spokes.
You can probably argue your way out of the first biting incident, as the injuries have been slight (so far, hopefully he doesn't get infected). A second recorded biting incident could result in the city putting your dog down.
posted by fermezporte at 11:51 AM on August 5, 2013
Why was your dog close enough to be touched? Did the biker swerve toward your dog? Did your dog go towards the biker? Is the road/sidewalk too narrow for both a bike and a dog? I wonder if his intention was not to perform a high-speed face petting maneuver, but to attempt to get some space between himself and the dog.
I would strongly recommend keeping your dog out of reach of cyclists and pedestrians. Even if your dog isn't biting the cyclist, they certainly don't want a leash caught up in their spokes.
You can probably argue your way out of the first biting incident, as the injuries have been slight (so far, hopefully he doesn't get infected). A second recorded biting incident could result in the city putting your dog down.
posted by fermezporte at 11:51 AM on August 5, 2013
He can; he probably won't. Were you actually at home, like the sidewalk right in front of your house? Your home owner's insurance might apply if you were. It can't hurt to call your agent and find out whether or not you'd be covered, just for your own peace of mind. Say you are trying to figure out if you need any policy changes or additional coverage--not that you are facing a suit (because, you know, you're not actually facing a suit).
Does your county/city have a dog bite/dangerous animal ordinance (one of those things that says X bites and the dog has to be euthanized)? Because as jetlagaddict says, you definitely don't want to run afoul of one of those. Perhaps ask your vet about them or call animal control about them. Generally, it needs to be an officially documented or reported dog bite incident to count against your dog, but the rules will be highly location-specific.
Can you move to a nose lead for the dog? They vary with how much they allow the dog to open his mouth and although it won't keep him from snapping when startled, it can prevent another bite incident. Definitely make note of anyone who is around if it happens again.
Unfortunately, you can't control assholes and any dog is going to react like that to someone who approaches one in such an excessively inappropriate manner. You may need to practice putting yourself between the dog and people like this guy when they approach (as suggested above). For you and your dog's comfort, can you change your route, or walk times, or go in and out of the back of your house instead of the front?
I used to have an asshole neighbor with a huge fat dog that tried to mount every dog it saw. This asshole neighbor actively encouraged it and I used to have to change my route if I saw him coming or--as noted above--put myself or trees or any number of things between my dog and this asshole because I could not stop it and this guy refused to control it. Eventually, my 6foot2 185 pound roommate walked the dog instead of me to protect me and my dog. Then, we moved. The end.
posted by crush-onastick at 11:51 AM on August 5, 2013
Does your county/city have a dog bite/dangerous animal ordinance (one of those things that says X bites and the dog has to be euthanized)? Because as jetlagaddict says, you definitely don't want to run afoul of one of those. Perhaps ask your vet about them or call animal control about them. Generally, it needs to be an officially documented or reported dog bite incident to count against your dog, but the rules will be highly location-specific.
Can you move to a nose lead for the dog? They vary with how much they allow the dog to open his mouth and although it won't keep him from snapping when startled, it can prevent another bite incident. Definitely make note of anyone who is around if it happens again.
Unfortunately, you can't control assholes and any dog is going to react like that to someone who approaches one in such an excessively inappropriate manner. You may need to practice putting yourself between the dog and people like this guy when they approach (as suggested above). For you and your dog's comfort, can you change your route, or walk times, or go in and out of the back of your house instead of the front?
I used to have an asshole neighbor with a huge fat dog that tried to mount every dog it saw. This asshole neighbor actively encouraged it and I used to have to change my route if I saw him coming or--as noted above--put myself or trees or any number of things between my dog and this asshole because I could not stop it and this guy refused to control it. Eventually, my 6foot2 185 pound roommate walked the dog instead of me to protect me and my dog. Then, we moved. The end.
posted by crush-onastick at 11:51 AM on August 5, 2013
Response by poster: Is the road/sidewalk too narrow for both a bike and a dog?
Yes. Very, very narrow. The guy also admitted that he was trying to pet my dog because he had pet him before.
Also, I don't want this to turn into a bike vs. dog thread - I love bikes! and my dog! - but bikes in LA do not have the right of way on the sidewalk, and I know this because I ride a bike in Los Angeles. My dog is on a short leash, the sidewalk is narrow, and he would not have done anything if the guy hadn't pet/grabbed his head.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 11:55 AM on August 5, 2013
Yes. Very, very narrow. The guy also admitted that he was trying to pet my dog because he had pet him before.
Also, I don't want this to turn into a bike vs. dog thread - I love bikes! and my dog! - but bikes in LA do not have the right of way on the sidewalk, and I know this because I ride a bike in Los Angeles. My dog is on a short leash, the sidewalk is narrow, and he would not have done anything if the guy hadn't pet/grabbed his head.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 11:55 AM on August 5, 2013
Not a lawyer, but for what it's worth, I had a super-duper little magical terrier in Los Angeles. He was made of stardust, and was generally a saint. Unless there were unguarded tacos around, but I digress.
Point being that this fellow would not harm anyone – even when provoked usually. But there was an exception. Similar story. Aggressive local guy, troublesome in general around the neighbourhood. We rarely tied the dog up – he was a free spirit (I know, I know...). But in one instance whilst a car was being washed, he was on a long lead when the troublemaker had a go at him. The lead was a bit caught on a branch, so the canine was restricted for a moment, when the fellow lunged a bit more forward, laughing. The terrier barked as the branch snapped and he went straight into the guy's face. He was startled and blocked with his hand. For his idiocy, he received a nice deep bite on the hand, with a nice blob of blood on top. He was very confused, and started shouting the same noise about lawsuits as he walked away.
We called the police and asked what was going to happen. What they told us was imminently helpful. If someone is pestering a dog in such a manner, chances are they may well also pester people. If he did decide to file a lawsuit, and had any criminal record for nuisance or disturbance, and it was the dog's first bite, he would be a fool. For he would only be entitled to doctor's bills and lost wages, if he could prove that the dog attacked him without provocation. Which for anyone with a past of disturbing the peace may be quite difficult.
Your experience will be your own, but we were terrified that they were going to take our dog away and slap us with a huge fine for endangering someone. But nothing ever happened. The guy didn't come by after that really. And the dog never bit anyone else.
posted by nickrussell at 12:01 PM on August 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Point being that this fellow would not harm anyone – even when provoked usually. But there was an exception. Similar story. Aggressive local guy, troublesome in general around the neighbourhood. We rarely tied the dog up – he was a free spirit (I know, I know...). But in one instance whilst a car was being washed, he was on a long lead when the troublemaker had a go at him. The lead was a bit caught on a branch, so the canine was restricted for a moment, when the fellow lunged a bit more forward, laughing. The terrier barked as the branch snapped and he went straight into the guy's face. He was startled and blocked with his hand. For his idiocy, he received a nice deep bite on the hand, with a nice blob of blood on top. He was very confused, and started shouting the same noise about lawsuits as he walked away.
We called the police and asked what was going to happen. What they told us was imminently helpful. If someone is pestering a dog in such a manner, chances are they may well also pester people. If he did decide to file a lawsuit, and had any criminal record for nuisance or disturbance, and it was the dog's first bite, he would be a fool. For he would only be entitled to doctor's bills and lost wages, if he could prove that the dog attacked him without provocation. Which for anyone with a past of disturbing the peace may be quite difficult.
Your experience will be your own, but we were terrified that they were going to take our dog away and slap us with a huge fine for endangering someone. But nothing ever happened. The guy didn't come by after that really. And the dog never bit anyone else.
posted by nickrussell at 12:01 PM on August 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
In the sense that he can go into court and file a complaint, yes.
If you're asking if he can WIN that suit, that's something that you ought to direct to a qualified attorney in your jurisdiction.
posted by toomuchpete at 11:23 AM on August 5, 2013