Spraying/misting something in the walls = terrible idea?
June 27, 2013 8:39 AM Subscribe
Will spraying a mixture of peppermint oil & water inside my condo walls cause damage in any unanticipated ways?
Recently, soon-to-be-mralleycat and I purchased and moved into a condo in the NYC area. Yay! Hurrah! Homeownership at last! However, to my IMMENSE DISTRESS, our new home has turned out to host ... something rodent-y ... in its walls. Scratchy, skittering, mouse-y sounds emanate from random areas of the walls and ceiling at random times in the night. It's not all the time, and there's no constant ratty gnawing sound (*shudder* thanks, internet) so I'm pretty sure it's mice.
We've determined that we don't have a problem in the unit itself, and to keep it that way, we have/are vigilantly plugging & caulking to seal ABSOLUTELY EVERY ENTRANCE as well as making sure to keep our food in sealed containers, wash up & clean to make gaining entrance less enticing to rodents, etc. However, after talking to others in the complex it's become clear that there's a problem in the walls of building in general. It is a very large, very old (converted warehouse) building, and as with any condo, there is unfortunately no way to get rid of the issue entirely because we can't control our neighbors' walls, the common basement areas, etc., and to eliminate rodent issues you need a holistic building approach. I (reluctantly) accept that fact, but would like to try to deter the mice from nesting in our walls if at all possible.
Absent the option to KILL IT WITH FIRE*, I've read that a lot of folks have had good results with cottonballs soaked in pure peppermint oil as a deterrent, or spraying a mixture of the oil & water in affected areas, as the smell irritates mice. I'm thinking about mixing up a batch, removing the outlet covers (or unplugging a few holes, or even drilling holes & plugging them after), and misting the spray inside the walls. If it proves useful, I'd reapply every month or so. I don't think I'd need all that much since the smell is very strong and the spaces are enclosed, but ... I also don't want to be stupid and cause damage to our newest source of debt.
Mefites, are there drawbacks to this plan that I'm not thinking of? Your help and expertise is (as always!) appreciated!
*Note that I'm not against killing mice and will def do so if they are in the apartment, but I recognize that we can't eliminate the issue entirely because of the building connections, and I prefer not to use poison in the walls & smell rotting mouse carcass all the time. In the absence of a permanent solution I'm looking for a renewable deterrent.
Recently, soon-to-be-mralleycat and I purchased and moved into a condo in the NYC area. Yay! Hurrah! Homeownership at last! However, to my IMMENSE DISTRESS, our new home has turned out to host ... something rodent-y ... in its walls. Scratchy, skittering, mouse-y sounds emanate from random areas of the walls and ceiling at random times in the night. It's not all the time, and there's no constant ratty gnawing sound (*shudder* thanks, internet) so I'm pretty sure it's mice.
We've determined that we don't have a problem in the unit itself, and to keep it that way, we have/are vigilantly plugging & caulking to seal ABSOLUTELY EVERY ENTRANCE as well as making sure to keep our food in sealed containers, wash up & clean to make gaining entrance less enticing to rodents, etc. However, after talking to others in the complex it's become clear that there's a problem in the walls of building in general. It is a very large, very old (converted warehouse) building, and as with any condo, there is unfortunately no way to get rid of the issue entirely because we can't control our neighbors' walls, the common basement areas, etc., and to eliminate rodent issues you need a holistic building approach. I (reluctantly) accept that fact, but would like to try to deter the mice from nesting in our walls if at all possible.
Absent the option to KILL IT WITH FIRE*, I've read that a lot of folks have had good results with cottonballs soaked in pure peppermint oil as a deterrent, or spraying a mixture of the oil & water in affected areas, as the smell irritates mice. I'm thinking about mixing up a batch, removing the outlet covers (or unplugging a few holes, or even drilling holes & plugging them after), and misting the spray inside the walls. If it proves useful, I'd reapply every month or so. I don't think I'd need all that much since the smell is very strong and the spaces are enclosed, but ... I also don't want to be stupid and cause damage to our newest source of debt.
Mefites, are there drawbacks to this plan that I'm not thinking of? Your help and expertise is (as always!) appreciated!
*Note that I'm not against killing mice and will def do so if they are in the apartment, but I recognize that we can't eliminate the issue entirely because of the building connections, and I prefer not to use poison in the walls & smell rotting mouse carcass all the time. In the absence of a permanent solution I'm looking for a renewable deterrent.
Best answer: I can't imagine you'd be spraying enough moisture regularly for mold to become a concern. If the wall voids are already porous enough for rodentia, there's probably already a fair bit of moisture here and there.
If you're spraying near outlets and switches, be careful to avoid getting moisture near any exposed wiring terminals.
The trouble with long-term infestations (at least with the roof rats I had to fight in the past) is that even if you manage to get rid of them all, the smell of their urine throughout the area is something of a neon sign attracting future residents (HEY - RAT FRIENDLY PLACE HERE). It can be a colossal pain in the ass to mitigate in a standard home. You don't, by chance, have a cat, do you? The smell of cat around may do some good in warding them away as well.
posted by jquinby at 8:46 AM on June 27, 2013
If you're spraying near outlets and switches, be careful to avoid getting moisture near any exposed wiring terminals.
The trouble with long-term infestations (at least with the roof rats I had to fight in the past) is that even if you manage to get rid of them all, the smell of their urine throughout the area is something of a neon sign attracting future residents (HEY - RAT FRIENDLY PLACE HERE). It can be a colossal pain in the ass to mitigate in a standard home. You don't, by chance, have a cat, do you? The smell of cat around may do some good in warding them away as well.
posted by jquinby at 8:46 AM on June 27, 2013
My two concerns were moisture = mold and water on electrical = Bad.
I too am thinking, kitties. Nice, hunters, who will be more than happy to emit a fragrance that says to rodents, "don't even think about it."
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:50 AM on June 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
I too am thinking, kitties. Nice, hunters, who will be more than happy to emit a fragrance that says to rodents, "don't even think about it."
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:50 AM on June 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
Seconding a cat. I actually "rented out" my cat to a pair of friends who'd just discovered they had mice and called an exterminator who couldn't come for a couple days - when the exterminator got there, he said "why'd you bother calling me if you have a cat?" He said that even if the cat doesn't catch mice, the mere smell of 'whoa shit there's a cat here" is often a good deterrent for mice.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:55 AM on June 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:55 AM on June 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Not to threadsit -- but unfortunately (despite the screen name), mralleycat is allergic and a cat is a no-go. But otherwise, keep the advice and thoughts coming ... thanks!
posted by alleycat01 at 8:56 AM on June 27, 2013
posted by alleycat01 at 8:56 AM on June 27, 2013
Best answer: This doesn't seem like it's going to accomplish what you want. If you don't spray enough to cause mold, you won't be keeping the mice away (and I kind of question whether water and oil would actually accomplish this??), and if you spray enough to discourage mice, you are indeed inviting mold. (Or the potential for being accused of inviting mold if something else independently causes mold.)
Moreover, you're going outside your walls. You probably do not own the space outside your walls. You do not want to cause damage (such as electrical damage or staining to walls/ceilings in others' units) that is costly to fix.
It is a very large, very old (converted warehouse) building, and as with any condo, there is unfortunately no way to get rid of the issue entirely because we can't control our neighbors' walls, the common basement areas, etc., and to eliminate rodent issues you need a holistic building approach
I think the best option here, given that a cat isn't an option, would be going to the condominium or co-op board about a holistic building pest control plan. Rodents are not unavoidable. Try to get a few other tenants on your side before you talk to whoever is in control of the board. Rodent control is a building-level problem, and as such should be handled by the building management.
posted by pie ninja at 8:58 AM on June 27, 2013 [8 favorites]
Moreover, you're going outside your walls. You probably do not own the space outside your walls. You do not want to cause damage (such as electrical damage or staining to walls/ceilings in others' units) that is costly to fix.
It is a very large, very old (converted warehouse) building, and as with any condo, there is unfortunately no way to get rid of the issue entirely because we can't control our neighbors' walls, the common basement areas, etc., and to eliminate rodent issues you need a holistic building approach
I think the best option here, given that a cat isn't an option, would be going to the condominium or co-op board about a holistic building pest control plan. Rodents are not unavoidable. Try to get a few other tenants on your side before you talk to whoever is in control of the board. Rodent control is a building-level problem, and as such should be handled by the building management.
posted by pie ninja at 8:58 AM on June 27, 2013 [8 favorites]
Instead of spraying, why don't you go with the soaked cotton ball method? Soak the ball, put in it a little mesh fabric bag (like have for potpourri) tie it with a string that you can use later to pull it out and replace with fresh cotton balls.
posted by greta simone at 8:58 AM on June 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by greta simone at 8:58 AM on June 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
You're fucked.
How / why should you ever settle living in such a place? The problem needs to be cured at the source - which you have no control over.
The good news: you may be able to get out of this place through your lawyer (if recent enough and you've documented this discovery). This is a material change to your understanding of your purchase.
posted by Kruger5 at 9:02 AM on June 27, 2013
How / why should you ever settle living in such a place? The problem needs to be cured at the source - which you have no control over.
The good news: you may be able to get out of this place through your lawyer (if recent enough and you've documented this discovery). This is a material change to your understanding of your purchase.
posted by Kruger5 at 9:02 AM on June 27, 2013
Best answer: I would not feel particularly good about putting oil-soaked cotton balls near electrical wiring in an old-ish building. I imagine any accidental fire situations in or around your apartment, even if they did not directly result from these actions, might be an insurance headache for you.
posted by elizardbits at 9:03 AM on June 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 9:03 AM on June 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
Your neighbors don't want to live in a rodent infested building either. Contact a local exterminator and get a quote. Post fliers by the door with the quote and the cost breakdown if everyone pays an equal share. Include your phone number on the flier. Do not collect the money for this. Get the exterminator to agree to taking all the separate payments. If you get 3/4 of the building, send notices the the other 1/4 of the date of treatment and explain to them that unless they pay, all the rodents will be fleeing to their apartments.
posted by myselfasme at 9:04 AM on June 27, 2013
posted by myselfasme at 9:04 AM on June 27, 2013
Best answer: YMMV, but I put peppermint oil-soaked cotton balls all around my kitchen when I saw mice there this past fall. It had absolutely no effect at all. I saw a mouse (or multiple mice, who knows) walk back and forth past one of the cotton balls multiple times as if it wasn't there. A complete waste of time and an overwhelming scent to boot. It would be a shame for you to waste your time doing this if it has no effect.
posted by amro at 9:10 AM on June 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by amro at 9:10 AM on June 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
...folks have had good results with cottonballs soaked in pure peppermint oil as a deterrent...
You might want to double-check that theory -- I think you might have it the wrong way around. My mice problems have been largely due to being attracted to peppermint. Chewing holes through my clothes to get to a forgotten roll in my pocket attracted.
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:12 AM on June 27, 2013
You might want to double-check that theory -- I think you might have it the wrong way around. My mice problems have been largely due to being attracted to peppermint. Chewing holes through my clothes to get to a forgotten roll in my pocket attracted.
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:12 AM on June 27, 2013
Instead of using peppermint oil, maybe you could borrow some, uh, cat scent (I'll leave the method of collecting the scent up to you) and use that, in the same way that people use predator scents in their gardens to deter rabbits and deer?
posted by fight or flight at 9:15 AM on June 27, 2013
posted by fight or flight at 9:15 AM on June 27, 2013
You should petition the homeowner's association to hire an exterminator, or you'll be living with this problem for as long as you own the place. You are literally spraying perfume on a skunk and telling yourself, "nah, this is fine".
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 9:17 AM on June 27, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 9:17 AM on June 27, 2013 [4 favorites]
Do not collect the money for this. Get the exterminator to agree to taking all the separate payments.
The condo association should be paying the exterminator either out of the association dues or through a special assessment. That's what the association does.
posted by hoyland at 9:30 AM on June 27, 2013 [6 favorites]
The condo association should be paying the exterminator either out of the association dues or through a special assessment. That's what the association does.
posted by hoyland at 9:30 AM on June 27, 2013 [6 favorites]
Best answer: I used this method when I had a mouse in my wall. Peppermint oil mixed with water. It would definitely make the mouse go away, but he'd come back after a few days. Eventually I went all medieval on him and sprayed a whole bunch in the wall and around the pipes and stuff under the sink. But...I think that poisoned him because he died in the wall and having a rotting mouse in your wall is not a great solution either.
It won't do any harm. You could try it. But keep your expectations for its efficacy kind of low.
posted by Lutoslawski at 9:48 AM on June 27, 2013
It won't do any harm. You could try it. But keep your expectations for its efficacy kind of low.
posted by Lutoslawski at 9:48 AM on June 27, 2013
>having a rotting mouse in your wall is not a great solution either
I have experience with this and can confirm the smell will linger two weeks to a month. It is nasty.
posted by Dragonness at 10:11 AM on June 27, 2013
I have experience with this and can confirm the smell will linger two weeks to a month. It is nasty.
posted by Dragonness at 10:11 AM on June 27, 2013
So that's why my boyfriend's mother put peppermint oil everywhere. I don't think it ever had an effect on her mice, but it was pretty piercing, and not pleasant to be around, at least in the quantity she tried. Some mice might be more sensitive to it than others, I guess.
posted by Akhu at 11:06 AM on June 27, 2013
posted by Akhu at 11:06 AM on June 27, 2013
Response by poster: Thanks. I'm marking as best answers those that directly answer my question. (The condo association/exterminators are already involved but that is a whole separate issue. It seems like this has been an ongoing battle for multiple years and I don't have a lot of faith in being resolved soon.) Other comments that have bearing on the question asked are also appreciated.
(And just a note to Capt Renault--the efficacy of peppermint oil may be in question (as is evidenced by the anecdotes here!) but the mouse was probably going after the sugar in your forgotten roll, not the peppermint. That's what you're supposed to use pure oil instead of extract ... or so the internet tells me. Shrug.)
posted by alleycat01 at 11:08 AM on June 27, 2013
(And just a note to Capt Renault--the efficacy of peppermint oil may be in question (as is evidenced by the anecdotes here!) but the mouse was probably going after the sugar in your forgotten roll, not the peppermint. That's what you're supposed to use pure oil instead of extract ... or so the internet tells me. Shrug.)
posted by alleycat01 at 11:08 AM on June 27, 2013
as with any condo, there is unfortunately no way to get rid of the issue entirely because we can't control our neighbors' walls, the common basement areas, etc., and to eliminate rodent issues you need a holistic building approach.
Maybe condos are different in this regard from co-ops, but for years I lived in a co-op building that included an exterminator as part of the maintenance costs. A guy came around one Saturday a month, from door to door asking if people wanted their apartment sprayed. I can only assume he also worked holistically throughout the building.
I won't claim the place was neat as a pin, but I definitely never had problems there like what you're talking about, nor did I ever see a roach or a mouse in my unit or in any common space.
You should definitely approach the board or the condo association, building management, or whichever group represents the owners as a collective and ask for this to be addressed as an ongoing thing. This is the sort of thing you're paying a maintenance fee for.
posted by Sara C. at 11:11 AM on June 27, 2013
Maybe condos are different in this regard from co-ops, but for years I lived in a co-op building that included an exterminator as part of the maintenance costs. A guy came around one Saturday a month, from door to door asking if people wanted their apartment sprayed. I can only assume he also worked holistically throughout the building.
I won't claim the place was neat as a pin, but I definitely never had problems there like what you're talking about, nor did I ever see a roach or a mouse in my unit or in any common space.
You should definitely approach the board or the condo association, building management, or whichever group represents the owners as a collective and ask for this to be addressed as an ongoing thing. This is the sort of thing you're paying a maintenance fee for.
posted by Sara C. at 11:11 AM on June 27, 2013
this does not answer your questions, but i wanted to offer another potential alternative. i had a similar prob in my condo, which is also an old converted warehouse. we bought (from our local hardware store) a plug-in device that emits high frequency sound waves that humans can't hear (hopefully). we left that plugged in for a number of months, and our problem was solved. presumably the rodents went elsewhere. after maybe a year, we unplugged it.
posted by smokyjoe at 11:30 AM on June 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by smokyjoe at 11:30 AM on June 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
So, uh, I have to share a conversation I had with our exterminator, a few years ago in our previous house. He said that mice are too small to be audible through walls. They just don't weigh enough to be heard, he said. If you are hearing scratching or movement, according to our exterminator, you either have squirrels or rats.
Sadly, in our case, he was right.
posted by ambrosia at 11:57 AM on June 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Sadly, in our case, he was right.
posted by ambrosia at 11:57 AM on June 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Heck, if I was going to be putting something in the walls to repel mice/rodents, it'd be a few teaspoons of used kitty litter.
posted by lemniskate at 12:12 PM on June 27, 2013
posted by lemniskate at 12:12 PM on June 27, 2013
You know, if it was that simple to get rid of mice, nobody would have them.
I've also tried the plug in sound wave device on mice. Nothing worked but special poison, from the eradicator who knew what he was doing (store-bought poison was useless.)
I have heard of hippies who politely ask the mice to go away, but they lived in the countryside and the mice had somewhere to go away to.
posted by glasseyes at 5:19 PM on June 27, 2013
I've also tried the plug in sound wave device on mice. Nothing worked but special poison, from the eradicator who knew what he was doing (store-bought poison was useless.)
I have heard of hippies who politely ask the mice to go away, but they lived in the countryside and the mice had somewhere to go away to.
posted by glasseyes at 5:19 PM on June 27, 2013
In case you are worried about damage to wires from using the electrical plates, you may be able to expose the space behind the wall if you pry the baseboard off the wall. Many walls don't go all the way to the floor. Insert your stuff, and tack the baseboard back on with some finishing nails. We did that with borax when we had a bug problem.
posted by CathyG at 12:53 PM on June 29, 2013
posted by CathyG at 12:53 PM on June 29, 2013
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My only concern about you spraying water inside the wall is that it may not dry easily, creating a damp environment for molds to grow. And that's not that great either.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:43 AM on June 27, 2013 [3 favorites]