Don't want to send my kid sister to jail...
June 12, 2013 4:34 PM Subscribe
My sister told me about some pretty disturbing and illegal things that she is doing. She clearly needs some kind of help or intervention, but I have no idea how to go about doing that without putting her in jail. I feel totally lost and conflicted.
I just got back from a visit with my younger stepsister, who is 18 years old and has always been kind of a rebel. We don't see each other that often, a few times a year, and we text/facebook a couple times a month maybe - we live a fair distance from each other. I'm always worried about her because she had a really messed up childhood, and has been in trouble since forever.
But now things have gotten to an extreme level. I was with her for about 10 minutes when she started telling me everything that she was doing lately. She has a new boyfriend and hangs out with him and his friends all the time - they're part of ___(gang name? or some crew or something...)___. Some of them are always on probation/in jail, etc. She says they are the greatest guys she's ever met, that they are all about respect and are seriously the best friends. She said she has stopped hanging out with her old friends because these guys are just so good to her.
I think she is selling drugs and thinking she won't get caught because she's an innocent looking white girl. She said that the only other person who knows about it is our 13 year old sister (!) who is 'cool' and won't tell. Her boyfriend is also asking her to hold on to his pot plants. She said she just had to tell me because she had to tell someone in the family and our other older sister would just tell her mom. (I've always told my little sisters that they could tell me anything and I wouldn't tell on them, because our parents are really messed up. Now I don't know what to do).
I also think she may be involved in sex work - she said some things that hinted in that direction, or that she may be somehow profiting by helping to recruit other girls into it. If I felt like this was an autonomous choice that she was making I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it feels really shady, like she's being pimped/involved in pimping.
So it basically sounds like she's involved with this gang who is using her to sell drugs and do sex work/recruit girls. I don't know why she spilled all this to me in the short amount of time we were hanging out, but I'm guessing it's a cry for help? Even though she didn't seem that distressed about it, almost proud, telling me how much money she could make off drugs, etc. But that could just be a defense mechanism to help her deal with all this that is happening to her? I don't know how to help her if she's not distressed and wanting to do something about it.
I feel like now I have all this information and I don't know what to do with it. I can't tell our parents. She lives with her mom (who is not my mom) and her mom's boyfriend, who are possibly abusive and have their own mental health/addictions issues. She has no relationship with our dad. If I go to the police then she'll end up in jail - I feel like maybe a lot of people will suggest I go to the police but I feel like jail is just going to damage her further, not help her. At the same time, though, I'm worried for say, my 13 year old sister who lives in the same house her (where she is possibly selling drugs from). Her mom is also extra stressed lately from some heavy family stuff that's going on and everyone is worried that she's on the verge of another mental breakdown - I don't think she's in a place to capably handle this like an responsible adult.
I know this is all heavy. I'm kind of in shock and anxious about being an accomplice by knowing all this (also I am in school for a profession that has mandated reporting - does this apply to me while I'm in school? How much legal trouble could I get in for knowing this information and not saying anything about it? I'm in a professional program). I feel like she's just lost and it seems hopeless. She's also super skinny, says she only does drugs once in a while but she looks like she is wasting away. What do I do? Should I talk to a prof in my program? Call a social worker? Tell her mom and risk that her mom won't do anything but kick her out/scream/god knows what? Tell our older sister (who is 23) and let her handle it, knowing that the 18 year old will never trust me again, and putting a heavy burden on my sister?
I am seriously lost and kind of avoiding the situation, but it's weighing on me and I know I have to do something. I want to talk to her about it, but I'm scared to write anything in a text or facebook message, as that becomes evidence of me being an accomplice in all this. I could call her but we don't usually ever talk on the phone.
Thanks in advance for your thoughtful responses.
I just got back from a visit with my younger stepsister, who is 18 years old and has always been kind of a rebel. We don't see each other that often, a few times a year, and we text/facebook a couple times a month maybe - we live a fair distance from each other. I'm always worried about her because she had a really messed up childhood, and has been in trouble since forever.
But now things have gotten to an extreme level. I was with her for about 10 minutes when she started telling me everything that she was doing lately. She has a new boyfriend and hangs out with him and his friends all the time - they're part of ___(gang name? or some crew or something...)___. Some of them are always on probation/in jail, etc. She says they are the greatest guys she's ever met, that they are all about respect and are seriously the best friends. She said she has stopped hanging out with her old friends because these guys are just so good to her.
I think she is selling drugs and thinking she won't get caught because she's an innocent looking white girl. She said that the only other person who knows about it is our 13 year old sister (!) who is 'cool' and won't tell. Her boyfriend is also asking her to hold on to his pot plants. She said she just had to tell me because she had to tell someone in the family and our other older sister would just tell her mom. (I've always told my little sisters that they could tell me anything and I wouldn't tell on them, because our parents are really messed up. Now I don't know what to do).
I also think she may be involved in sex work - she said some things that hinted in that direction, or that she may be somehow profiting by helping to recruit other girls into it. If I felt like this was an autonomous choice that she was making I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it feels really shady, like she's being pimped/involved in pimping.
So it basically sounds like she's involved with this gang who is using her to sell drugs and do sex work/recruit girls. I don't know why she spilled all this to me in the short amount of time we were hanging out, but I'm guessing it's a cry for help? Even though she didn't seem that distressed about it, almost proud, telling me how much money she could make off drugs, etc. But that could just be a defense mechanism to help her deal with all this that is happening to her? I don't know how to help her if she's not distressed and wanting to do something about it.
I feel like now I have all this information and I don't know what to do with it. I can't tell our parents. She lives with her mom (who is not my mom) and her mom's boyfriend, who are possibly abusive and have their own mental health/addictions issues. She has no relationship with our dad. If I go to the police then she'll end up in jail - I feel like maybe a lot of people will suggest I go to the police but I feel like jail is just going to damage her further, not help her. At the same time, though, I'm worried for say, my 13 year old sister who lives in the same house her (where she is possibly selling drugs from). Her mom is also extra stressed lately from some heavy family stuff that's going on and everyone is worried that she's on the verge of another mental breakdown - I don't think she's in a place to capably handle this like an responsible adult.
I know this is all heavy. I'm kind of in shock and anxious about being an accomplice by knowing all this (also I am in school for a profession that has mandated reporting - does this apply to me while I'm in school? How much legal trouble could I get in for knowing this information and not saying anything about it? I'm in a professional program). I feel like she's just lost and it seems hopeless. She's also super skinny, says she only does drugs once in a while but she looks like she is wasting away. What do I do? Should I talk to a prof in my program? Call a social worker? Tell her mom and risk that her mom won't do anything but kick her out/scream/god knows what? Tell our older sister (who is 23) and let her handle it, knowing that the 18 year old will never trust me again, and putting a heavy burden on my sister?
I am seriously lost and kind of avoiding the situation, but it's weighing on me and I know I have to do something. I want to talk to her about it, but I'm scared to write anything in a text or facebook message, as that becomes evidence of me being an accomplice in all this. I could call her but we don't usually ever talk on the phone.
Thanks in advance for your thoughtful responses.
Can she come live with you? Can't your 13 year old sister come live with you too?
For sure talk to a trusted professor. This problem is above your pay grade.
Perhaps there's an upward bound program or some other behavioral thing she can get into.
I'm so sorry but shit just got real.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:45 PM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
For sure talk to a trusted professor. This problem is above your pay grade.
Perhaps there's an upward bound program or some other behavioral thing she can get into.
I'm so sorry but shit just got real.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:45 PM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I am really sorry to say this, but IME, this may be one of those times where you need to let your stepsister fall, and fall hard, in order to learn some really important life lessons. My cousin was doing the same stuff your stepsister is and no matter who tried to talk to him and who tried to intervene, he kept on dealing and doing some really dim witted dumb stuff. I surmised that the only thing that would restart his attitude would be a night in jail, and I was right. It may seem heartless to stop trying, and to a certain extent it sort of is, but it's also more pragmatic, and it may yield better results. I'm so sorry, and I hope things turn out okay for everyone involved.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 4:50 PM on June 12, 2013 [9 favorites]
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 4:50 PM on June 12, 2013 [9 favorites]
Please go discuss this with an impartial third party. Someone who doesn't have any say in your future career (dear god not a professor. I know they mean well, but this level of stuff is above their pay grade.)
Take a hot bath. Make a list of the pros and cons of all your options. Think about what you would hope someone might do for you if you found yourself in this kind of situation. Do some reading about how women end up where your sister is. Think long and hard about whether you can take her in before you offer that. Talk to professionals about what this means.
posted by bilabial at 4:56 PM on June 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Take a hot bath. Make a list of the pros and cons of all your options. Think about what you would hope someone might do for you if you found yourself in this kind of situation. Do some reading about how women end up where your sister is. Think long and hard about whether you can take her in before you offer that. Talk to professionals about what this means.
posted by bilabial at 4:56 PM on June 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Maybe she told you because she wants out, and doesn't see a way.
posted by four panels at 4:56 PM on June 12, 2013 [19 favorites]
posted by four panels at 4:56 PM on June 12, 2013 [19 favorites]
Don't report her. I would express your concern. "Wow sister, I love you and am worried for you. You deserve all the best in the world. I hate to see you engaging in shady stuff like this."
Someone needs to tell her that she's worthy,smart, and capable.
posted by Fairchild at 5:02 PM on June 12, 2013 [16 favorites]
Someone needs to tell her that she's worthy,smart, and capable.
posted by Fairchild at 5:02 PM on June 12, 2013 [16 favorites]
Wow.
I'm seeing a bunch of different paths here. Please take these in as earnest; they are not facetious answers.
Path 1:
Your sister is 18, legally an adult, and is acting like one. Butt out. But check in on your 13 year old sister.
Path 2:
Ask your sister why she told you this. What does she want you to do for her? Call the cops on the gang? Help her get out of the situation? Cheer her on?
Path 3:
Tell her parents, because sometimes we break promises for the right reasons. Or, similarly, tell your older sister.
Path 4:
You get involved. Can you find out what she really sees in these guys? Is it just the money? Is it really respect? Does she want to be in this situation next year? Can you have her shadow cops for a day? Or meet families whose lives have been ruined by gangs/drugs/prostitution? How can you scare her to a better path? What does she want to do with life? Can you get her out of this situation somehow? A long trip, moving, a job, school, the military, something?
This sucks. I don't know what I'd do if my nieces came to me like this. I wish you luck.
posted by Ms Vegetable at 5:05 PM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm seeing a bunch of different paths here. Please take these in as earnest; they are not facetious answers.
Path 1:
Your sister is 18, legally an adult, and is acting like one. Butt out. But check in on your 13 year old sister.
Path 2:
Ask your sister why she told you this. What does she want you to do for her? Call the cops on the gang? Help her get out of the situation? Cheer her on?
Path 3:
Tell her parents, because sometimes we break promises for the right reasons. Or, similarly, tell your older sister.
Path 4:
You get involved. Can you find out what she really sees in these guys? Is it just the money? Is it really respect? Does she want to be in this situation next year? Can you have her shadow cops for a day? Or meet families whose lives have been ruined by gangs/drugs/prostitution? How can you scare her to a better path? What does she want to do with life? Can you get her out of this situation somehow? A long trip, moving, a job, school, the military, something?
This sucks. I don't know what I'd do if my nieces came to me like this. I wish you luck.
posted by Ms Vegetable at 5:05 PM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yeah, it does sound as if she's testing the waters with you in what she's told you so far, and might have withheld the worst of it, until she has a better idea of the lengths she can trust you to.
Probably not helpful, but it sounds to me that her changing things will depend on her gaining genuine options and alternatives. Right now, it sounds like she doesn't have a hell of a lot of options in life other than what she's doing (and it's kind of abstract that the current path - which is perhaps the best option on the table right now - could maybe someday lead to fewer/worse range of options in the someday future.)
posted by anonymisc at 5:08 PM on June 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Probably not helpful, but it sounds to me that her changing things will depend on her gaining genuine options and alternatives. Right now, it sounds like she doesn't have a hell of a lot of options in life other than what she's doing (and it's kind of abstract that the current path - which is perhaps the best option on the table right now - could maybe someday lead to fewer/worse range of options in the someday future.)
posted by anonymisc at 5:08 PM on June 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
The purpose of a gang, the reason they exist, is as a replacement family for people whose family isn't really there for them. If your suspicions about the parents are correct, and with what she's said, it sounds like this is what draws her too. The gang is her new family.
There is a fair bit of study and articles online about what it takes to get someone out of a gang, or for someone to leave a gang. So, start by becoming more familiar with the problem - other people have been in your shoes, and written about it.
posted by anonymisc at 5:18 PM on June 12, 2013 [20 favorites]
There is a fair bit of study and articles online about what it takes to get someone out of a gang, or for someone to leave a gang. So, start by becoming more familiar with the problem - other people have been in your shoes, and written about it.
posted by anonymisc at 5:18 PM on June 12, 2013 [20 favorites]
I second the idea of communicating your concerns and depending on her response, figuring out what you can do.
I think what's missing in some of the answers already here (and what I'm reading in your question) is that there is a certain mindset/culture that prides itself on doing illegal stuff, getting over on society and making money doing nothing. Ever listen to most rap music? A lot of it is absurd looking from the outside, but it reflects a reality that people buy into and actually live. The life she's living right now may be attractive to her.
Before anybody jumps on me, I am trying to walk the fine line between overgeneralizing and conveying a reality that exists and that I witnessed first-hand growing up.
So, approach it as a cry for help, but don't be surprised if it isn't. In any event, let her know that you care about her and you'll be there for her if she needs you.
posted by cnc at 5:21 PM on June 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
I think what's missing in some of the answers already here (and what I'm reading in your question) is that there is a certain mindset/culture that prides itself on doing illegal stuff, getting over on society and making money doing nothing. Ever listen to most rap music? A lot of it is absurd looking from the outside, but it reflects a reality that people buy into and actually live. The life she's living right now may be attractive to her.
Before anybody jumps on me, I am trying to walk the fine line between overgeneralizing and conveying a reality that exists and that I witnessed first-hand growing up.
So, approach it as a cry for help, but don't be surprised if it isn't. In any event, let her know that you care about her and you'll be there for her if she needs you.
posted by cnc at 5:21 PM on June 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
She says that she's hanging out with this group and getting involved in their stuff because they are so good to her, and is living in a home with messed up parents that she can't trust. This is a girl that wants to belong, to have the support of her peers, to be loved. Telling on her is just going to push her further into that scenario. What she needs is to get out of the bad home situation, and to feel better about herself enough that she can see that joining a gang is not a good way to get the social comfort that human beings need.
Anything you can do to help her get out of that home would be good, but also, is there any way you could help her by paying for her to get counseling? I bet she doesn't know herself why she is doing all this illegal activity, talking to a sympathetic person could really help. If you can't get a professional, can you set aside time to talk to her yourself, like, really talk, as a big sister and a friend? Because she really needs a friend right now.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 5:23 PM on June 12, 2013 [7 favorites]
Anything you can do to help her get out of that home would be good, but also, is there any way you could help her by paying for her to get counseling? I bet she doesn't know herself why she is doing all this illegal activity, talking to a sympathetic person could really help. If you can't get a professional, can you set aside time to talk to her yourself, like, really talk, as a big sister and a friend? Because she really needs a friend right now.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 5:23 PM on June 12, 2013 [7 favorites]
I'm sorry, I missed that your sister is 18, in which case child protective services would be appropriate for the 13-year-old, but not the 18-year-old.
That also means that your 18-year-old sister has aged out of most mandated reporting requirements, unless you have way more information about the girls she may be recruiting and that you know they're under 18. Again, check your state laws, but it sounds like you're freaking out about your reporting requirements, and I strongly suspect you don't have any mandate to report anything you currently know, or even anything that you might learn by continuing to support your 18-year-old sister.
It sounds like both you and she need support. Do you have a therapist, or does your training program get you access to one? I think getting some confidential help with all this would help you. I also suspect that having an adult your sister can confide in/rely on would be helpful for her in getting out of the hairy situations she's experiencing, so if you can get support for yourself and are willing to be her support person, after assuring yourself that doing so would not get you in legal trouble, that might be a good course of events.
posted by jaguar at 5:26 PM on June 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
That also means that your 18-year-old sister has aged out of most mandated reporting requirements, unless you have way more information about the girls she may be recruiting and that you know they're under 18. Again, check your state laws, but it sounds like you're freaking out about your reporting requirements, and I strongly suspect you don't have any mandate to report anything you currently know, or even anything that you might learn by continuing to support your 18-year-old sister.
It sounds like both you and she need support. Do you have a therapist, or does your training program get you access to one? I think getting some confidential help with all this would help you. I also suspect that having an adult your sister can confide in/rely on would be helpful for her in getting out of the hairy situations she's experiencing, so if you can get support for yourself and are willing to be her support person, after assuring yourself that doing so would not get you in legal trouble, that might be a good course of events.
posted by jaguar at 5:26 PM on June 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
I can appreciate you not wanting your sister to end up in jail, but given the seriousness of the activities she's involved in I think something stronger than "be there for her" is called on.
I think a good first step would be finding a social worker.
Maybe someone who specializes in domestic violence.
I would seriously consider calling Child Protective Services on behalf of the 13 year old. You'll have to think about what you're willing to do if they decide to remove her from the home.
posted by brookeb at 6:00 PM on June 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
I think a good first step would be finding a social worker.
Maybe someone who specializes in domestic violence.
I would seriously consider calling Child Protective Services on behalf of the 13 year old. You'll have to think about what you're willing to do if they decide to remove her from the home.
posted by brookeb at 6:00 PM on June 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
Hanging her freedom on being an "innocent looking white girl" is beyond foolish, but as everyone else says, she's 18 and a legal adult. Between holding her boyfriend's pot and the possible sex work, she's risking one hell of a lot, and she's the one who is going to pay. The problem is, she might not be the ONLY one to pay: a lot of localities have laws where a renter could be evicted for illegal activities, or the owner of a car or house could have that property seized for drug activity.
And about that holding her boyfriend's pot plants: I'll bet the sole reason he asked her to hold them is he wants to avoid legal liability..... what happens if the cops find them? Would the police be likely to believe her when she says 'why no, Officer, those aren't MY marijuana plants: I'm just holding onto them for someone else!", or would they just haul her in for possession?!? Sheesh.
I hate to have to say it, but there really doesn't sound like much you can do for her: she's chosen her path, and she's a legal adult. The best, and possibly the ONLY, thing you can do it try to save your 13-year-old youngest sister --- if there's any way at all, try, TRY to get her out of there, before the 18-year-old's boyfriend and his buddies decide to do something like pimp her out, too.
posted by easily confused at 6:09 PM on June 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
And about that holding her boyfriend's pot plants: I'll bet the sole reason he asked her to hold them is he wants to avoid legal liability..... what happens if the cops find them? Would the police be likely to believe her when she says 'why no, Officer, those aren't MY marijuana plants: I'm just holding onto them for someone else!", or would they just haul her in for possession?!? Sheesh.
I hate to have to say it, but there really doesn't sound like much you can do for her: she's chosen her path, and she's a legal adult. The best, and possibly the ONLY, thing you can do it try to save your 13-year-old youngest sister --- if there's any way at all, try, TRY to get her out of there, before the 18-year-old's boyfriend and his buddies decide to do something like pimp her out, too.
posted by easily confused at 6:09 PM on June 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
If she thinks being an innocent-looking white girl will keep her out of trouble, she should read up on what happened to Rachel Hoffman.
posted by Lexica at 6:29 PM on June 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Lexica at 6:29 PM on June 12, 2013 [4 favorites]
I don't know the ultimate answer, but I don't agree with the idea you should wash your hands of it all because she's 18. It's true that you can't control her, but not that you can't express concern and be there for her. An 18 year old today, no matter what they are dealing with, is still in so many ways a child.
At the least, I think you should talk to her, at a quiet time when you can look her in the eye, and let her know that you are really, really concerned about everything she told you, that you don't think it's really as good or safe as she feels it is right now, that some of the things she is doing have serious risks, that you want better things for her, that you believe in her, and that you are there for her. Make sure he has a number where she can reach you and knows she can call, if she gets into an unsafe situation. You can make rules about whether you'd bail her out or not, etc., but at least you will know where she is and what is going on, and she'll know if she's in trouble that she has at least one lifeline.
She might feel proud of herself right now that she's worked everything out so well, is so adult and is taking care of herself so ably. As she sees it. That may be why she told you so much - she wants you to admire her resourcefulness. But if I were you, I would want to lay down right now the principle that I do care about her and see some trouble in these scenarios. At the very least. The idea that she shares all of that, to no real reaction from you, just reinforces in her mind how cool it all must be.
The 13 year old? It sounds like she should get some attention too. It all sounds really super difficult. I guess maybe you are the "hero" in this family - you made it out, you're on your own. It's a tough position to be in. You might have to think about what you're willing to do to help your siblings. I have a feeling that sitting on the sidelines and watching more bad stuff happen will not feel good to you, though I'm very sympathetic about not wanting to be dragged into drama.
posted by Miko at 6:32 PM on June 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
At the least, I think you should talk to her, at a quiet time when you can look her in the eye, and let her know that you are really, really concerned about everything she told you, that you don't think it's really as good or safe as she feels it is right now, that some of the things she is doing have serious risks, that you want better things for her, that you believe in her, and that you are there for her. Make sure he has a number where she can reach you and knows she can call, if she gets into an unsafe situation. You can make rules about whether you'd bail her out or not, etc., but at least you will know where she is and what is going on, and she'll know if she's in trouble that she has at least one lifeline.
She might feel proud of herself right now that she's worked everything out so well, is so adult and is taking care of herself so ably. As she sees it. That may be why she told you so much - she wants you to admire her resourcefulness. But if I were you, I would want to lay down right now the principle that I do care about her and see some trouble in these scenarios. At the very least. The idea that she shares all of that, to no real reaction from you, just reinforces in her mind how cool it all must be.
The 13 year old? It sounds like she should get some attention too. It all sounds really super difficult. I guess maybe you are the "hero" in this family - you made it out, you're on your own. It's a tough position to be in. You might have to think about what you're willing to do to help your siblings. I have a feeling that sitting on the sidelines and watching more bad stuff happen will not feel good to you, though I'm very sympathetic about not wanting to be dragged into drama.
posted by Miko at 6:32 PM on June 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Can she come live with you?
OP, before you do this, consider the situation - you'd be bringing an unstable drug dealer/gang member into your house before the fact it is your sister. Having similar genetic material is no reason to do anything foolish that might have horrendous personal consequences for you without actually solving anything. Unless you're a trained professional, you will most likely not be able to help your family in any real way. More likely the outcome of well-intentioned but inept intervention would be that they wind up destroying your life, too.
I'd call someone with professional expertise at CPS- they should be able to give you some kind of guidance, but I'd strongly urge you to remember that you secure your own mask first.
posted by winna at 6:45 PM on June 12, 2013 [8 favorites]
OP, before you do this, consider the situation - you'd be bringing an unstable drug dealer/gang member into your house before the fact it is your sister. Having similar genetic material is no reason to do anything foolish that might have horrendous personal consequences for you without actually solving anything. Unless you're a trained professional, you will most likely not be able to help your family in any real way. More likely the outcome of well-intentioned but inept intervention would be that they wind up destroying your life, too.
I'd call someone with professional expertise at CPS- they should be able to give you some kind of guidance, but I'd strongly urge you to remember that you secure your own mask first.
posted by winna at 6:45 PM on June 12, 2013 [8 favorites]
I totally agree with that. Call someone who can help you structure the situation and protect yourself too.
posted by Miko at 6:51 PM on June 12, 2013
posted by Miko at 6:51 PM on June 12, 2013
as brookeb suggested i think talking to a social worker is a really good place to start. maybe also tell your older sister and the two of you can handle this together rather than putting it all on her. i absolutely don't think you can just let this go. her doing sex work, or possibly recruiting other girls, is really, really serious. the 13 year old is definitely in danger of being drawn into all this mess of drugs, gang life and sex work as well. chances are child protective services are going to have to get involved here for the welfare of the 13 year old.
posted by wildflower at 6:52 PM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by wildflower at 6:52 PM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'd be strongly wary of getting the police involved if i could avoid it. I don't know what i would do, but seeing as how she's 18 any sort of drug charges(or any manner of other things she may be doing) could fuck her over for life in the context of having a felony conviction on her record.
It's one thing to get "scared straight" and busted when you're underage and that shit just kinda goes away in the form of a juvenile/sealed record, but if she's 18 this could awful problems for a very long time, if not just forever.
I know a couple people whose lives were completely fucked up by this kind of thing.
I'd also add, how reliable of a narrator do you really think she is? i haven't seen anyone question that. I've known and met some people who were in to small time pot dealing or something and talked it up really big like they were hardcore gangbangers and "moving mad weight with their crew" and being real ass gangsters mayeng.
Are you sure she isn't just selling some dime bags with her boyfriend who has a couple plants in his closet? Not that she couldn't get busted by the cops and get in trouble in that kind of situation too, but seriously. Consider how plausible it is that it's just something like that Vs her being involved in serious gang activity.
Because having been that age, and living nextdoor to a bunch of kids like the guys she's describing at that time... They wished they were gangsters, but they really weren't. They were just some guys who pretended like they were and smoked weed every day while playing xbox and having the occasional trashy drama fight or screaming match with a junkie friend of a friend. The worst thing going on here might just be that she's hanging out with shitty people and getting caught up in their grandiose image of how "hardcore" they are, not actually doing anything that awful.
I really think you should hang out with her more, and maybe even meet these people before you decide what to do. Because i really think the story might be exaggerated here on her part. Especially since if you take it at face value it is just bragging and not a cry for help.
I really think we can't make a judgement one way or another hearing this second hand over the internet. You talked to her in meatspace(or at least over the phone, with actual words and intonation and shit where you can tell how someone really sounds) so you may know better... But that was really my first thought having known some "straight up g's" like this.
posted by emptythought at 6:54 PM on June 12, 2013 [16 favorites]
It's one thing to get "scared straight" and busted when you're underage and that shit just kinda goes away in the form of a juvenile/sealed record, but if she's 18 this could awful problems for a very long time, if not just forever.
I know a couple people whose lives were completely fucked up by this kind of thing.
I'd also add, how reliable of a narrator do you really think she is? i haven't seen anyone question that. I've known and met some people who were in to small time pot dealing or something and talked it up really big like they were hardcore gangbangers and "moving mad weight with their crew" and being real ass gangsters mayeng.
Are you sure she isn't just selling some dime bags with her boyfriend who has a couple plants in his closet? Not that she couldn't get busted by the cops and get in trouble in that kind of situation too, but seriously. Consider how plausible it is that it's just something like that Vs her being involved in serious gang activity.
Because having been that age, and living nextdoor to a bunch of kids like the guys she's describing at that time... They wished they were gangsters, but they really weren't. They were just some guys who pretended like they were and smoked weed every day while playing xbox and having the occasional trashy drama fight or screaming match with a junkie friend of a friend. The worst thing going on here might just be that she's hanging out with shitty people and getting caught up in their grandiose image of how "hardcore" they are, not actually doing anything that awful.
I really think you should hang out with her more, and maybe even meet these people before you decide what to do. Because i really think the story might be exaggerated here on her part. Especially since if you take it at face value it is just bragging and not a cry for help.
I really think we can't make a judgement one way or another hearing this second hand over the internet. You talked to her in meatspace(or at least over the phone, with actual words and intonation and shit where you can tell how someone really sounds) so you may know better... But that was really my first thought having known some "straight up g's" like this.
posted by emptythought at 6:54 PM on June 12, 2013 [16 favorites]
Oh, and i'd also say regardless of what you do avoid involving your parents if at all possible if they, as you say, suck. There's probably more than enough drama involved in this situation just with those people, and possibly even more if you involve yourself. Unless you can see an actual they could contribute something meaningful to the situation then fuck that. A lot of kids/people that age hang out with losers simply because they can relate to those people who also had shitty parents. And having known people with shitty parents, they're also a value-subtract not a value-add to any shitty situation.
The suggests above involving that are off point unless you have a specific strategy in mind or situation in which you think they could pull her away from something awful, knowing fully how they'll react because they're predictably shitty(like telling her she can't live at home anymore and has to go live with her grandma in another state or something, and you know she won't just start crashing with these shitty people). Anything else is just throwing gasoline on the drama fire or adding another crappy, unpredictable element to what may or may not be a crappy situation. Don't do it just because it's the "thing to do".
posted by emptythought at 6:59 PM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
The suggests above involving that are off point unless you have a specific strategy in mind or situation in which you think they could pull her away from something awful, knowing fully how they'll react because they're predictably shitty(like telling her she can't live at home anymore and has to go live with her grandma in another state or something, and you know she won't just start crashing with these shitty people). Anything else is just throwing gasoline on the drama fire or adding another crappy, unpredictable element to what may or may not be a crappy situation. Don't do it just because it's the "thing to do".
posted by emptythought at 6:59 PM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't know about your sister, but when *I* was 18, I didn't listen to anybody and especially didn't listen to anybody who disagreed with my "adult" choices.
I think your best course of action is to let her no you're concerned, leave it at that, and let her know you're there for her if the shit hits the fan.
posted by colin_l at 7:06 PM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think your best course of action is to let her no you're concerned, leave it at that, and let her know you're there for her if the shit hits the fan.
posted by colin_l at 7:06 PM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you tell the cops, you could be sending your sister to prison. I am not a lawyer, but do you really think that calling an agency with the power and inclination to put your kid sister in a cage for years will help her through her troubles? I seriously seriously doubt it. Anything but the cops. Please don't hurt your family like that.
posted by oceanjesse at 8:26 PM on June 12, 2013 [9 favorites]
posted by oceanjesse at 8:26 PM on June 12, 2013 [9 favorites]
Anon, I'm going to make this as concise and meaningful as I can without a hell of a lot of writing...
This gang affiliation stuff is essentially family replacement. The only reason gangs work is because they, just like any cult, offer feelings of belonging and understanding.
She obviously doesn't have a committed emotional support group...a family that understands...so she's reaching out and finding and making the best of what's available.
My reaction is to rally your sisters to engage with her, talk with her and be the family that she needs.
Call every fucking day. Talk about school and career goals and personal interests. Allow her to open up about her personal feelings and express herself.
You ARE the family she needs.
I've been on both sides of this fence and I'm thankful every single day that someone showed an honest interest, love and care for me before I got in too deep.
Good luck and don't give up!
posted by snsranch at 8:26 PM on June 12, 2013 [19 favorites]
This gang affiliation stuff is essentially family replacement. The only reason gangs work is because they, just like any cult, offer feelings of belonging and understanding.
She obviously doesn't have a committed emotional support group...a family that understands...so she's reaching out and finding and making the best of what's available.
My reaction is to rally your sisters to engage with her, talk with her and be the family that she needs.
Call every fucking day. Talk about school and career goals and personal interests. Allow her to open up about her personal feelings and express herself.
You ARE the family she needs.
I've been on both sides of this fence and I'm thankful every single day that someone showed an honest interest, love and care for me before I got in too deep.
Good luck and don't give up!
posted by snsranch at 8:26 PM on June 12, 2013 [19 favorites]
She says they are the greatest guys she's ever met, that they are all about respect and are seriously the best friends.
What's that phrase? The easiest lie to make someone believe is the lie they want to believe. She'll find out just what Prince Charmings they are when it's time to throw someone under the bus to avoid prison, or when they just feel like she is helpless and they stand to profit big time off her against her wishes.
But I feel like your sister wants to believe that there is someone with power who will always have her back. Someone with power who she can always trust, who will be watching out for her. Someone with the consistent ability to provide her with her material needs, or enable her to get them. And someone who wants her there, wants her around, or at the very least sees her as having some value/use and not a burdensome waste of space.
I don't know if there is any way to get your sister out of this. But my gut feeling is if anything would help, it would be:
-Making sure she really feels like she can trust you and your older sister;
-That you guys love her, actively want her around in your presence and don't see her as an unwanted burden;
-That you guys are ready, willing and able to take her in and take care of her and really want to do so;
-That you will be able to provide her with a home life where her material needs are met.
Not all of those things may be the case for you right now, especially if your older sister is only 23.
Even if you can't take care of her yourself, I think even if everything goes wrong, if she ends up in prison, just having that relationship where she knows you love her no matter what and don't judge her, that she can trust you no matter what, and you will always do your best to be there for her, could be very important afterwards.
Even if you can't do everything, you might be able to start by just telling her often that you love her and you want to help her with anything she might need help with, and ASK her often if there is anything that she needs. Even if she says a million times that she is fine, just keep saying and asking those things regularly. And if she tells you she needs something, do your very best to consistently get it to her.
posted by cairdeas at 8:37 PM on June 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
What's that phrase? The easiest lie to make someone believe is the lie they want to believe. She'll find out just what Prince Charmings they are when it's time to throw someone under the bus to avoid prison, or when they just feel like she is helpless and they stand to profit big time off her against her wishes.
But I feel like your sister wants to believe that there is someone with power who will always have her back. Someone with power who she can always trust, who will be watching out for her. Someone with the consistent ability to provide her with her material needs, or enable her to get them. And someone who wants her there, wants her around, or at the very least sees her as having some value/use and not a burdensome waste of space.
I don't know if there is any way to get your sister out of this. But my gut feeling is if anything would help, it would be:
-Making sure she really feels like she can trust you and your older sister;
-That you guys love her, actively want her around in your presence and don't see her as an unwanted burden;
-That you guys are ready, willing and able to take her in and take care of her and really want to do so;
-That you will be able to provide her with a home life where her material needs are met.
Not all of those things may be the case for you right now, especially if your older sister is only 23.
Even if you can't take care of her yourself, I think even if everything goes wrong, if she ends up in prison, just having that relationship where she knows you love her no matter what and don't judge her, that she can trust you no matter what, and you will always do your best to be there for her, could be very important afterwards.
Even if you can't do everything, you might be able to start by just telling her often that you love her and you want to help her with anything she might need help with, and ASK her often if there is anything that she needs. Even if she says a million times that she is fine, just keep saying and asking those things regularly. And if she tells you she needs something, do your very best to consistently get it to her.
posted by cairdeas at 8:37 PM on June 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
A lot of people make mistakes at this age. And for kids from certain situations, it might mistakenly appear that drug dealing is the best option available to them. It means being part of a group with round the clock togetherness, where everyone is valued and has a role, and making a profit.
In my opinion, these are your priorities in order:
1. Maintain her trust
2. Try to stop her from becoming a junkie
3. Try to keep her from exposing your younger sister to dangerous things
4. Try to get her to maximize her chances of staying out of jail
5. Help her navigate her way into a new career path and maybe a new set of friends
You don't mention gun violence; is that a risk?
Besides being a lifeline for her and expressing your love, faith, and encouragement, I'd want to say to her:
- Please minimize your risks of becoming a victim of violence.
- Keep your little sister safe.
- Stay in control; stay away from the addictive stuff.* (People really do become so addicted to drugs that they do nothing but try to earn money to get more drugs.)
- Be smart, know the law, and minimize your legal risks*
- There aren't really any 50 year old dealers. This is a short term plan.* Start developing your exit strategy.
* None of this is meant to endorse drugs or drug dealing, which damage lives and communities. But you have to meet her where she's at.
posted by salvia at 9:08 PM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
In my opinion, these are your priorities in order:
1. Maintain her trust
2. Try to stop her from becoming a junkie
3. Try to keep her from exposing your younger sister to dangerous things
4. Try to get her to maximize her chances of staying out of jail
5. Help her navigate her way into a new career path and maybe a new set of friends
You don't mention gun violence; is that a risk?
Besides being a lifeline for her and expressing your love, faith, and encouragement, I'd want to say to her:
- Please minimize your risks of becoming a victim of violence.
- Keep your little sister safe.
- Stay in control; stay away from the addictive stuff.* (People really do become so addicted to drugs that they do nothing but try to earn money to get more drugs.)
- Be smart, know the law, and minimize your legal risks*
- There aren't really any 50 year old dealers. This is a short term plan.* Start developing your exit strategy.
* None of this is meant to endorse drugs or drug dealing, which damage lives and communities. But you have to meet her where she's at.
posted by salvia at 9:08 PM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
She says they are the greatest guys she's ever met, that they are all about respect and are seriously the best friends. She said she has stopped hanging out with her old friends because these guys are just so good to her.
I think she is selling drugs and thinking she won't get caught because she's an innocent looking white girl.
I think she must have gotten the idea she won't get caught because she's an innocent looking white girl from the guys she's hanging out with. That's not something she can count on if some of them get caught.
That she's stopped hanging out with her old friends seems like a danger sign to me.
I'm not sure what you can do to help, other than to talk to her often.
posted by yohko at 9:08 PM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think she is selling drugs and thinking she won't get caught because she's an innocent looking white girl.
I think she must have gotten the idea she won't get caught because she's an innocent looking white girl from the guys she's hanging out with. That's not something she can count on if some of them get caught.
That she's stopped hanging out with her old friends seems like a danger sign to me.
I'm not sure what you can do to help, other than to talk to her often.
posted by yohko at 9:08 PM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Talk to her. Express your concerns. Plenty of women go to jail because they held drugs for a boyfriend. Sister, I'm just plain worried about you. I'm concerned about the possibility that you're selling pot and maybe other drugs, or holding drugs for BF. I would just hate for you to end up in jail; it happens.
Are you maybe trading sex for drugs or money? How do you feel about that? Have you thought about any plans for the future. I love you, I won't bust you to your Mom or the Police, but I don't feel good about where you seem to be right now. I'll be here if you need me.
And I have to tell you that I'm not comfortable with 13 yo Sister knowing about the drugs. How about if you confide in me, and not her?
Talk to 13 year old, ask if she's smoking pot, using any other drugs, getting hassled for sex.
Is there any place else they can live? Stay in close touch, keep the lines of communication and love open. A lot of people recover from wild and fucked up adolescence, but she may be taking some big risks.
posted by theora55 at 9:37 PM on June 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Are you maybe trading sex for drugs or money? How do you feel about that? Have you thought about any plans for the future. I love you, I won't bust you to your Mom or the Police, but I don't feel good about where you seem to be right now. I'll be here if you need me.
And I have to tell you that I'm not comfortable with 13 yo Sister knowing about the drugs. How about if you confide in me, and not her?
Talk to 13 year old, ask if she's smoking pot, using any other drugs, getting hassled for sex.
Is there any place else they can live? Stay in close touch, keep the lines of communication and love open. A lot of people recover from wild and fucked up adolescence, but she may be taking some big risks.
posted by theora55 at 9:37 PM on June 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Consider the possibility that if you report her to the police, you may be saving her rather than hurting her. She's still young and has the opportunity to move her life in a good direction. A few more years hanging out with drug dealers may leave her with more legal problems and more jail time, maybe with no hope of a decent future, maybe also with severe addiction, and maybe even dead. If you help end this terrible direction she's heading, she may not thank you now but she may thank you later.
posted by Dansaman at 10:13 PM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Dansaman at 10:13 PM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Absolutely do not report your own sister to the police and potentially send her to prison.
It is immoral to inflict this country's draconian drug laws on almost anyone, let alone a family member. Do you have any idea how many young people in this country dabble in pot selling and just grow out of it w/out acquiring a felony or spending time in some overcrowded and dangerous prison?
I understand you think it's wrong and a bad life choice to sell pot, but please consider that marijuana is now on a pretty solid march to decriminalization. 18 states have legalized marijuana in some form and/or decriminalized possession.
Imagine a future in which you've helped ruin your younger sister's life for actions society no longer even deems illegal.
posted by airing nerdy laundry at 11:01 PM on June 12, 2013 [6 favorites]
It is immoral to inflict this country's draconian drug laws on almost anyone, let alone a family member. Do you have any idea how many young people in this country dabble in pot selling and just grow out of it w/out acquiring a felony or spending time in some overcrowded and dangerous prison?
I understand you think it's wrong and a bad life choice to sell pot, but please consider that marijuana is now on a pretty solid march to decriminalization. 18 states have legalized marijuana in some form and/or decriminalized possession.
Imagine a future in which you've helped ruin your younger sister's life for actions society no longer even deems illegal.
posted by airing nerdy laundry at 11:01 PM on June 12, 2013 [6 favorites]
I'd try to set up a talk between her and a ex-con (ideally an ex-gang member or a ex drug-dealer), ex-cop who runs a youth club, or a current or ex-sex worker. Maybe set the stage by having them as a dinner guest at a restaurant or something away from the house and involving food. Maybe start by googling 'ex-gang *city name*' or talking to a local youth shelter for a contact.
She may listen to them because they've walked the walk and can trump any teen-style "what do you know?" dismissiveness.
I might try "10 years from now, what is your life going to be like?" as an approach to discussing this.
I would see if you or your older sister can take in the 13-year old.
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:38 PM on June 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
She may listen to them because they've walked the walk and can trump any teen-style "what do you know?" dismissiveness.
I might try "10 years from now, what is your life going to be like?" as an approach to discussing this.
I would see if you or your older sister can take in the 13-year old.
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:38 PM on June 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'd be strongly wary of getting the police involved if i could avoid it. I don't know what i would do, but seeing as how she's 18 any sort of drug charges(or any manner of other things she may be doing) could fuck her over for life in the context of having a felony conviction on her record.
It's one thing to get "scared straight" and busted when you're underage and that shit just kinda goes away in the form of a juvenile/sealed record, but if she's 18 this could awful problems for a very long time, if not just forever.
I know a couple people whose lives were completely fucked up by this kind of thing.
I'd also add, how reliable of a narrator do you really think she is? i haven't seen anyone question that. I've known and met some people who were in to small time pot dealing or something and talked it up really big like they were hardcore gangbangers and "moving mad weight with their crew" and being real ass gangsters mayeng.
Are you sure she isn't just selling some dime bags with her boyfriend who has a couple plants in his closet? Not that she couldn't get busted by the cops and get in trouble in that kind of situation too, but seriously. Consider how plausible it is that it's just something like that Vs her being involved in serious gang activity.
This put it way better than I could. She could just be talking big to her brother, to make herself seem cooler or more hardcore. Don't do anything until you get independent confirmation of these 'crimes' and you meet the 'gangsters'.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 11:57 PM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's one thing to get "scared straight" and busted when you're underage and that shit just kinda goes away in the form of a juvenile/sealed record, but if she's 18 this could awful problems for a very long time, if not just forever.
I know a couple people whose lives were completely fucked up by this kind of thing.
I'd also add, how reliable of a narrator do you really think she is? i haven't seen anyone question that. I've known and met some people who were in to small time pot dealing or something and talked it up really big like they were hardcore gangbangers and "moving mad weight with their crew" and being real ass gangsters mayeng.
Are you sure she isn't just selling some dime bags with her boyfriend who has a couple plants in his closet? Not that she couldn't get busted by the cops and get in trouble in that kind of situation too, but seriously. Consider how plausible it is that it's just something like that Vs her being involved in serious gang activity.
This put it way better than I could. She could just be talking big to her brother, to make herself seem cooler or more hardcore. Don't do anything until you get independent confirmation of these 'crimes' and you meet the 'gangsters'.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 11:57 PM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I went through a phase of hanging out with sketchy people, doing sketchy shit, and contemplating some things that could have had real legal consequences for me. Nothing specifically like what your sister is dealing with, but stuff in the same ballpark.
One thing that helped me was when friends and family from outside the situation just told me straight up that what I was doing was stupid, wrong, immoral, and the like. Real talk. "Wait, so, you're like convincing these girls to do sex work? That's fucked up." (To use an example from your sister's situation, obviously.)
This especially worked when it came from people who weren't otherwise overprotective of me or naive about the world. The time I told my sheltered high school friend that I had tried weed, and she went ballistic about how I was going to go to JAIL and this was going to RUIN MY LIFE? No effect. The time I told my mom about some scammy idea my boyfriend came up with, and I kind of realized it sounded sketchy coming out of my mouth, and then she took one look at me and said, "People go to prison for that," though? That got me thinking.
Spend more time with your sister. One on one, doing sister things. Let her continue to confide in you. Tell her the truth about how she comes off. Not in an alarmist "YOU HAVE A POT PLANT?! PRISON FOR LIFE!" way, but in a real way. Don't stage an intervention. Just tell her the truth. And keep telling her. Play to that kernel of doubt sitting in the back of her mind.
It may be helpful to find out the real life ramifications of the stuff she's telling you. Plenty of people are small time weed dealers and face no consequences. Sex work is dangerous and can lead to a lot of bad stuff, but it's unlikely that someone would go to actual prison for personally engaging in it. Is this crew an actual gang, or just a bad crowd? If you don't know the nuances of this stuff, I would err heavily on the non-alarmist side until you have direct evidence of stuff that is really bad news.
One thing she needs to know is that a lot of women end up in prison for being involved in crimes committed by boyfriends. You might want to put a pin in her casual marijuana use for the moment and concentrate on explaining what an "accessory" is and how people convicted of that go to prison all the time. For years. Ruining their lives.
posted by Sara C. at 12:06 AM on June 13, 2013 [5 favorites]
One thing that helped me was when friends and family from outside the situation just told me straight up that what I was doing was stupid, wrong, immoral, and the like. Real talk. "Wait, so, you're like convincing these girls to do sex work? That's fucked up." (To use an example from your sister's situation, obviously.)
This especially worked when it came from people who weren't otherwise overprotective of me or naive about the world. The time I told my sheltered high school friend that I had tried weed, and she went ballistic about how I was going to go to JAIL and this was going to RUIN MY LIFE? No effect. The time I told my mom about some scammy idea my boyfriend came up with, and I kind of realized it sounded sketchy coming out of my mouth, and then she took one look at me and said, "People go to prison for that," though? That got me thinking.
Spend more time with your sister. One on one, doing sister things. Let her continue to confide in you. Tell her the truth about how she comes off. Not in an alarmist "YOU HAVE A POT PLANT?! PRISON FOR LIFE!" way, but in a real way. Don't stage an intervention. Just tell her the truth. And keep telling her. Play to that kernel of doubt sitting in the back of her mind.
It may be helpful to find out the real life ramifications of the stuff she's telling you. Plenty of people are small time weed dealers and face no consequences. Sex work is dangerous and can lead to a lot of bad stuff, but it's unlikely that someone would go to actual prison for personally engaging in it. Is this crew an actual gang, or just a bad crowd? If you don't know the nuances of this stuff, I would err heavily on the non-alarmist side until you have direct evidence of stuff that is really bad news.
One thing she needs to know is that a lot of women end up in prison for being involved in crimes committed by boyfriends. You might want to put a pin in her casual marijuana use for the moment and concentrate on explaining what an "accessory" is and how people convicted of that go to prison all the time. For years. Ruining their lives.
posted by Sara C. at 12:06 AM on June 13, 2013 [5 favorites]
Sex work is dangerous and can lead to a lot of bad stuff, but it's unlikely that someone would go to actual prison for personally engaging in it.
Yes, but if she's recruiting other girls, she might be prosecuted as a pimp/procurer?
One thing she needs to know is that a lot of women end up in prison for being involved in crimes committed by boyfriends.
I wonder if it would be helpful if she talks to a criminal defense lawyer about this - they could provide the context and the seriousness that an older sibling might not.
And she's on track to need one eventually anyway.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:45 AM on June 13, 2013
Yes, but if she's recruiting other girls, she might be prosecuted as a pimp/procurer?
One thing she needs to know is that a lot of women end up in prison for being involved in crimes committed by boyfriends.
I wonder if it would be helpful if she talks to a criminal defense lawyer about this - they could provide the context and the seriousness that an older sibling might not.
And she's on track to need one eventually anyway.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:45 AM on June 13, 2013
There's lots of good options laid out by other people here so I won't repeat. Really you'll have to think about what will work the best and for you and her. You know her so will probably have an idea about which kind of approach will be the most suited for her.
I think the important first step is to find out more. What is exactly going on?
She may not open up straight away so be supportive and keep checking in, be there for her and make sure she knows it. Extract the information so you can make an informed decision: it could be worse than you think, it could be tamer than you think.
Talk to the 13 year old, too and make sure she's not in any immediate danger. She may even be a better source of information about what's going on. If you talk to her first you could be able to get a better idea of whether what your sister says to you is true or not. Staying calm, non-accusatory and supportive through all this would be beneficial of course.
I'd be really stressed out in a situation like this. If it's looking bad you should get yourself some support at the same time, or even before getting someone in to help her. That way you'll also have a support network and someone to help you see clearly through the fog of stress and worry.
posted by halcorp at 5:00 AM on June 13, 2013
I think the important first step is to find out more. What is exactly going on?
She may not open up straight away so be supportive and keep checking in, be there for her and make sure she knows it. Extract the information so you can make an informed decision: it could be worse than you think, it could be tamer than you think.
Talk to the 13 year old, too and make sure she's not in any immediate danger. She may even be a better source of information about what's going on. If you talk to her first you could be able to get a better idea of whether what your sister says to you is true or not. Staying calm, non-accusatory and supportive through all this would be beneficial of course.
I'd be really stressed out in a situation like this. If it's looking bad you should get yourself some support at the same time, or even before getting someone in to help her. That way you'll also have a support network and someone to help you see clearly through the fog of stress and worry.
posted by halcorp at 5:00 AM on June 13, 2013
I know this is going to sound weird, but maybe you should ask to see if you can 'party' with them for a night. Just to see what's going on. Don't be judge-y or anything while you're with them, but it should at least give you a better idea of what you're dealing with. It might not be as bad as you think, or it might be worse.
Despite what you might think about drug dealers or users, they aren't generally monsters, and the problems with that life style tend to be more subtle and long term, so can be really hard to see for an 18 year old.
posted by empath at 5:30 AM on June 13, 2013 [4 favorites]
Despite what you might think about drug dealers or users, they aren't generally monsters, and the problems with that life style tend to be more subtle and long term, so can be really hard to see for an 18 year old.
posted by empath at 5:30 AM on June 13, 2013 [4 favorites]
As far as her involvement in sex work goes, Children of the Night is an organization worth contacting.
posted by TedW at 5:32 AM on June 13, 2013
posted by TedW at 5:32 AM on June 13, 2013
Nthing what empath and others said about the reality of playing xbox while high vs. actual life of crime. Many drug dealers are businessmen, just not in the same business as you or me. The hype suggests something other than, well, massive drug operation.
I would be worried, but I would get more info before deciding what to do.
You might want to have a confab with some other relatives about the 13-year-old. Absent the 18-year-old's problems, leaving them out entirely, would the 13-year-old be better off elsewhere?
posted by skbw at 5:51 AM on June 13, 2013
I would be worried, but I would get more info before deciding what to do.
You might want to have a confab with some other relatives about the 13-year-old. Absent the 18-year-old's problems, leaving them out entirely, would the 13-year-old be better off elsewhere?
posted by skbw at 5:51 AM on June 13, 2013
I don't know why she spilled all this to me in the short amount of time we were hanging out, but I'm guessing it's a cry for help? Even though she didn't seem that distressed about it, almost proud, telling me how much money she could make off drugs, etc.
Teenagers (or in general, people in transitional stages) sometimes "cry for help" by testing boundaries and trying to shock people, and sometimes exaggerate or completely fabricate stories when they are abused or ignored and starving for attention. So I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that things are as bad as she says.
I would try to get help from a stable, reliable adult like that professor if it's possible. Your sister may go through a rough phase, but you want to make sure at least that she has some safety nets to turn to if she decides she wants to. Let her know what other options exist. Does she want to go to college? Does she have any ideas about skills or talents she has or would like to develop? Has she ever had any kind of job? If she has some sense of what else is possible this group may stop seeming so desirable.
posted by mdn at 7:16 AM on June 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Teenagers (or in general, people in transitional stages) sometimes "cry for help" by testing boundaries and trying to shock people, and sometimes exaggerate or completely fabricate stories when they are abused or ignored and starving for attention. So I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that things are as bad as she says.
I would try to get help from a stable, reliable adult like that professor if it's possible. Your sister may go through a rough phase, but you want to make sure at least that she has some safety nets to turn to if she decides she wants to. Let her know what other options exist. Does she want to go to college? Does she have any ideas about skills or talents she has or would like to develop? Has she ever had any kind of job? If she has some sense of what else is possible this group may stop seeming so desirable.
posted by mdn at 7:16 AM on June 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Sex work is dangerous and can lead to a lot of bad stuff, but it's unlikely that someone would go to actual prison for personally engaging in it.
Um wrong. If an adult (an 18-year-old qualifies) is recruiting juveniles for sex work, it can get classified as Sex traffiking, and that's a mess NO ONE will climb out of.
After giving it thought, I would tell your sister, "I'm worried about you, being in a gang, dealing with drugs and promoting prostitution are all very serious things. None of it is okay. I get that our family is a mess and these folks are welcoming you. I want to be there for you as a family member. I don't want you to hit bottom, being an addict, being incarcerated, being raped, in order for you to see that this life is not nice and leads no where. I'll ask you this, 'how old is the oldest female in your group?' Probably not very old. That's because they're either in jail or dead. I'm not going to rat you out or report you, and I'll be here for you. If you want to get out, I'll help."
That's all I've got because this is a hard one.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:12 AM on June 13, 2013
Um wrong. If an adult (an 18-year-old qualifies) is recruiting juveniles for sex work, it can get classified as Sex traffiking, and that's a mess NO ONE will climb out of.
After giving it thought, I would tell your sister, "I'm worried about you, being in a gang, dealing with drugs and promoting prostitution are all very serious things. None of it is okay. I get that our family is a mess and these folks are welcoming you. I want to be there for you as a family member. I don't want you to hit bottom, being an addict, being incarcerated, being raped, in order for you to see that this life is not nice and leads no where. I'll ask you this, 'how old is the oldest female in your group?' Probably not very old. That's because they're either in jail or dead. I'm not going to rat you out or report you, and I'll be here for you. If you want to get out, I'll help."
That's all I've got because this is a hard one.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:12 AM on June 13, 2013
Let her know that after seeing her, you realize you miss her a lot and you'd like her to come for a visit, say a week, on your dime. Don't let her bring her boyfriend, say its a sister thing. Then spend a week with her, just being together and having fun, and let her bond with you and (if she wants) talk to you. That's a good first step to her feeling comfortable sling for help if she needs it, plus she will have a week away from the influence of these folks. It might give her a bit if perspective, especially to have you bring as nice to her as her boyfriend and friends (but likely for more positive reasons.)
posted by davejay at 9:31 AM on June 13, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by davejay at 9:31 AM on June 13, 2013 [4 favorites]
If an adult (an 18-year-old qualifies) is recruiting juveniles for sex work, it can get classified as Sex traffiking, and that's a mess NO ONE will climb out of.
as ruthless bunny said: if she is recruiting other underage girls to prostitute then she is a sex trafficker. this is a REALLY SERIOUS THING that involves major jail time. that site children of the night looks good and prostitution research & education has tons of info. here is one of the ways young women/girls get drawn into prostitution and it sounds like it could be something happening with your sister:
as ruthless bunny said: if she is recruiting other underage girls to prostitute then she is a sex trafficker. this is a REALLY SERIOUS THING that involves major jail time. that site children of the night looks good and prostitution research & education has tons of info. here is one of the ways young women/girls get drawn into prostitution and it sounds like it could be something happening with your sister:
The domestic violence transition targets young people coming out of abusive homes who are emotionally needy, and have no real idea of what a normal love relationship looks like. They become involved with a "boyfriend" who initially treats them better than they have ever experienced before. The boyfriend gradually becomes extremely controlling, and eventually violent. He introduces commercial sex in terms of his pressing need for money, and "If you love me, you will do this." He quickly transitions from "just this once" into "You are just a whore, my whore!" and requiring daily prostitution. He continues controlling the victim with alternating emotional manipulation and explosive violence, while living on her earnings, for as long as she lasts. (from how prostitution works)posted by wildflower at 2:35 PM on June 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
Psssst, my comment about sex work was regarding if OP's sister herself was engaging in sex work, not something like trafficking in underage girls, which we just don't know if that's what's happening here at all.
And, again, my comment came from the standpoint of "make sure you know what's really going on and be able to base your comments on known truth and not hysteria". Obviously if the reality is that OP's sister is pimping underage girls, that is probably the worst case scenario in all of this and yes, the police should be involved immediately and OP's status as a mandatory reporter probably comes into it. But there's a lot of space between "maybe engaged in sex work or convinced other girls to do it" and "is a child sex trafficker". And pretending that there isn't probably won't help OP's sister look at her situation rationally.
posted by Sara C. at 3:01 PM on June 13, 2013
And, again, my comment came from the standpoint of "make sure you know what's really going on and be able to base your comments on known truth and not hysteria". Obviously if the reality is that OP's sister is pimping underage girls, that is probably the worst case scenario in all of this and yes, the police should be involved immediately and OP's status as a mandatory reporter probably comes into it. But there's a lot of space between "maybe engaged in sex work or convinced other girls to do it" and "is a child sex trafficker". And pretending that there isn't probably won't help OP's sister look at her situation rationally.
posted by Sara C. at 3:01 PM on June 13, 2013
On a small side note: if you live in the U.S., try to avoid involving the cops for now. If she's convicted of a drug related crime, it's a felony. It will also prevent her from ever getting student loans, if she does get cleaned up and decides to go to school.
(Insert long off-topic rant about the stupidity of that law).
posted by RogueTech at 8:09 PM on June 13, 2013 [4 favorites]
(Insert long off-topic rant about the stupidity of that law).
posted by RogueTech at 8:09 PM on June 13, 2013 [4 favorites]
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What stood out most to me in your post was your mention that your sister may be being abused by her parents. That is probably the biggest crisis issue here, and I think calling your area's child protective services about the abuse might be a good first step at getting everyone in the family the help they obviously need.
Another option might be to contact the counselors at her school, unless they're totally useless.
posted by jaguar at 4:42 PM on June 12, 2013 [1 favorite]