Dirty Words During Sex.
April 4, 2007 4:52 PM   Subscribe

I've been in a committed, loving relationship for over two years now. And the sex is great. But the other day my girlfriend asked me to call her some very nasty names during sex. I did, and now I feel awful about it. She says she likes it though. Should I feel bad?

I love my girlfriend (soon to be wife) with all my heart. And during the two years we've been together I've been conscious to make sure she's been treated with the utmost respect. She deserves nothing less. But the other night, during sex, she asked me to call her a whore. It wasn't the first time she asked me to, either. In the past, I've declined, telling her it's not right for me to call her that. But for some reason, in the heat of that particular moment, I did.

But far from recoiling in horror, she loved it, and asked me to call her other things, such as "slut", "bitch" and so on. I did and she loved it even more. She was very, very excited. When it was all over she was extremely satisfied. And yeah, I felt good too. But also, I felt terrible.

I don't like calling her those things. She's none of those things. She's my soon-to-be wife and if she deserves to be called anything, it is something like 'princess'. So I feel really, really bad that I called her by those awful names. I have told her this. She said not to feel bad, because it excited her and she loved it.

The worst thing is, as much as I hated the fact that I did it, I sort of found it pretty hot too...

We talked it over and she says she knows I don't mean those things, and were I to say things like that to her outside of sex, she would hate me for it. But she thinks during the act, it's fine, fun and exciting. It makes some sense, but I can't reconcile my respect for her with what is such an otherwise ugly thing to say.

So my questions are as follows...

1. Should I be feeling as bad as I do?

2. Is this sort of thing 'normal' in the wider world? By that I mean, is it an 'accepted' thing to call your partner such names during sex if he or she likes it?

3) Should I keep doing it, or is it harmful to a relationship in the long run?
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (58 answers total) 33 users marked this as a favorite

1) No.
2) Yes.
3) Keep doing it.

Dirty talk is so common a kink that it's not even a kink anymore.
posted by mckenney at 4:54 PM on April 4, 2007 [14 favorites]

mckenney is spot on.

To be a little more detailed: you know she's not a whore. If you ever do any roleplaying--say, naughty cheerleader and lecherous coach--you know she's not a cheerleader. This is no different. The mistake you're making, I think, is thatyou think she'll believe you. She doesn't. Some part of her, of course, wants to believe she's a whore--it's taboo and forbidden and a huge turn-on. Don't worry about it.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:57 PM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]

Mckenney is right, but I would caution you to work through this until you're both comfortable with the norms that you establish.
posted by HuronBob at 5:00 PM on April 4, 2007

Friend, she may not even be thinking of you during any particular sex act, and in her fantasy of the moment, the guy she's thinking she's with would be speaking those lines. So that's one reason it might be exciting for her; a lot of women have some fairly strong subjugation elements in their fantasies. And you do want your wife to have a fulfilling fantasy life, right? 'Cause turn about is fair play, right?

Play along, and she might be serving you birthday cake in a french maid costume, or something, shortly...
posted by paulsc at 5:03 PM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]

sexuality == fantasy != rationality. If you were both actors in a play, you might have to say nasty things to each other, to entertain the audience. There's no difference here except the audience is you.
posted by thirteenkiller at 5:03 PM on April 4, 2007 [2 favorites]

Echoing Mckenny - this is completely within the bounds of what sounds like a fantastic, open and loving relationship. The key thing for you to remember is that as long as this roleplay is balanced by the kind of clear respect and love you have for your girlfriend, it's perfectly healthy. Because that's all it is - roleplay. Relax and enjoy the feeling of breaking taboos with the one you love.
posted by Happy Dave at 5:03 PM on April 4, 2007

Also, not indulging your partner in things you both enjoy, purely for the sake of propriety, is extremely harmful to a relationship in the long run.
posted by thirteenkiller at 5:05 PM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]

Oh, and one way to help make yourself feel a little more comfortable with it, is to phrase it as a question - 'Are you my ....?'
'Tell me'.
Then she does. Interactive innit? And can be easier to deal with if you're initially uncomfortable with coming right out and calling her names.
posted by Happy Dave at 5:07 PM on April 4, 2007 [10 favorites]

Is this sort of thing 'normal' in the wider world? By that I mean, is it an 'accepted' thing to call your partner such names during sex if he or she likes it?

It is an accepted thing to do just about any damn thing that your partner likes during sex, if you're game. You're in the clear.
posted by cortex at 5:08 PM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]

Sometimes MeFi makes me feel so old and jaded.

Anything that turns your partner on and doesn't make you feel bad in the process is "normal." The problem at the moment is that you feel bad about it. You need to figure out that it is play-acting and become comfortable with that or stop doing it. You will have a lot more fun if you choose the former. The ability to be versatile will make you happier in the long run. You both know this isn't a reflection of your inner feelings (right?)
posted by Lame_username at 5:09 PM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]

Dirty talk is a turn-on because it's all about being transgressive -- naughty, base, taboo. That's why it gets her (and you, too, evidently!) hot. Simple as that. So talk dirty to her heart's content, then call her "princess" afterwards while you're cuddling in the afterglow of that extra-satisfying sex.
posted by scody at 5:12 PM on April 4, 2007 [2 favorites]

Wow -- I am stunned to say I agree with every comment so far.

Just think of it as acting. When you see an actor playing a character, you don't confuse the character's actions with what the actor is like in real life. Just think of yourself as pretending to be an actor, if that helps.

You can call her princess the rest of the time.
posted by yohko at 5:13 PM on April 4, 2007

Response by poster: Ditto mckenney. Calling each other dirty, horrible names is completely normal sex-play, and does not necessarily have anything to do with either partners feelings about themselves or each other.
posted by Anonymous at 5:14 PM on April 4, 2007

Ditto mckenney.

Loosen up dude. Knock the bottom out and give it to her hard and fast. Then you'll know later by the look on her face that you dont have to ask if it was good or not.
posted by jmnugent at 5:25 PM on April 4, 2007 [3 favorites]

1. You feel how you feel. Feelings also change. Maybe talk to her about your feelings. Supposedly women in general are interested in such things.
2. Yes, absolutely.
3. The common wisdom would be no.

I was right with you until you said you enjoyed it. I guess my transgressiveness or source of excitement is different and I would probably never get to such words, but the point is you guys are consenting adults. So explore together. And ask her what she's thinking about (later) FFS! Aren't you dying to know?
posted by Listener at 5:29 PM on April 4, 2007

if she deserves to be called anything, it is something like 'princess'.

Uh, yeah good luck finding someone who thinks that is hot. You guys found something that turns you both on -- why are you overthinking this? I suspect you're both really young, but you really don't have to worry if your partner asks you to do something, you do it, and you're both pleased. Trouble only arises when you're not communicating your requests to each other, or not fulfilling them.
posted by anildash at 5:35 PM on April 4, 2007 [2 favorites]

A lot of this kind of talk basically amounts to the following:

Q: You like sex? You are a person who likes the sex acts that we are currently engaged in?
A: Yes! I am! I like sex!
Q: You like sex! In fact, you are a person who likes sex as much as a prostitute likes sex!

So, I wouldn't assume that liking dirty words necessarily means that she only likes them because they're "degrading," or that she's super into submission (although she might be). She might just like sexy sex sex.
posted by lemuria at 5:43 PM on April 4, 2007 [690 favorites]

1. Should I be feeling as bad as I do?

There isn't should about such things. There's only is. You should try to figure out whether it's something that really honestly bothers you, or something that was just sort of surprising and shocking and that you felt like you shouldn't like... but like. It's okay if both of you like it.

But then again, there's nothing wrong with you if you come to the conclusion that it's not your cup of tea, any more than something is wrong with people who don't like broccoli. Preferences are given.

2. Is this sort of thing 'normal' in the wider world? By that I mean, is it an 'accepted' thing to call your partner such names during sex if he or she likes it?

Sure. OTOH, that doesn't mean you have to do it if you conclude that you really don't like it. Or at least, that you don't have to do it very often. As long as it's at least tolerable to you, you should be open to it when she clearly wants it, even if it's not your favorite thing.

3) Should I keep doing it, or is it harmful to a relationship in the long run?

The only reason it might become harmful is if you conclude that you really don't like it, and she insists on it.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:14 PM on April 4, 2007

Telling you? I'm telling everybody!

Don't feel bad about it. Sex is dirty, thank god.
posted by Divine_Wino at 6:24 PM on April 4, 2007

lemuria, that sounds like it's straight out of Dino Comics. Wall done.
posted by craven_morhead at 6:28 PM on April 4, 2007

She likes it. Call her a whore, and treat her like a whore. She wants that. Sex is about objectification. You aren't having sex with her because of her mind or her personality. Those may be reasons that you're marrying her, but they aren't the reason you want to put your boy part in her girl part, now are they? The keys are that: 1.) Objectification stays in the bedroom; and 2.) It happens a minority of the time, and only when you both want it hot and dirty. If what she wants is affection, emotional intimacy, etc., don't have sex: make love.
posted by textilephile at 6:45 PM on April 4, 2007

In this area, a little compromise works well; I think it might help you out.

I like to discuss mutual enjoyment in ways similar to lemuria's illustration. But I don't like to hear stuff that implies I'm not liked ("bitch") or that I'm useless for anything but sex ("cumdumpster"). It's not that I know I shouldn't like the latter category; it's just an immediate turn-off for me.

Might you both be happier with a similar compromise? She gets dirty talk, and you don't feel like you're demeaning her?
posted by booksandlibretti at 6:52 PM on April 4, 2007 [3 favorites]

I agree with Scody. Part of the reason she probably likes the dirty talk, and part of the reason you like it too, is the "I shouldn't be doing this!" factor. It's taboo, and breaking taboos is fun. It's as simple as that.
posted by christinetheslp at 6:56 PM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]

lemuria, that sounds like it's straight out of Dino Comics. Wall done.

Or Stewie from Family Guy. Good stuff!

And yes, keep calling her whatever she wants to be called in the bedroom. A princess in everyday life and a dirty girl in the bedroom is about as good as you can ask for!
posted by doofgod at 7:06 PM on April 4, 2007

Try it for a few more times. See how you feel about it then. I'd bet that if she keeps loving it, you will feel better about it.

I'm sure she's counting her lucky stars.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:24 PM on April 4, 2007

One thing that might make you feel better is for both of you to decide on a safe word - something that she or you can say to indicate that you're no longer comfortable with the dirty talk and would like it to stop. Even if you never use it, it might soothe your mind to know that, if she does suddenly feel demeaned, the talk can immediately stop without any confusion.
posted by sarahsynonymous at 7:52 PM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]

Did you think that perhaps, in the middle of coitus, of calling her "princess?"

I think your reluctance comes at conflict. You think that acting in the bedroom is equated with acting outside of the bedroom.

It's only harmful, if you believe that calling someone a name makes them the name. It's just words. But in the moment of the throws of orgasm, it helps her get over the edge. Bonus, you've found that it does something for you too (although you're reluctant to admit it.)

Don't sweat it. Enjoy it. If it makes you feel bad, paint her toenails later. But, christ, it's sex - if you really love her anything that helps her is good. There's no blood spilled, no animals harmed, just some articulation essaying forth from your mouth.
posted by filmgeek at 8:10 PM on April 4, 2007

You might try role playing -- being characters who would say such things might make it easier to say and feel okay about. Why not pretend to be the jerky football player to her cheerleader? (Or whatever...)
posted by Margalo Epps at 8:12 PM on April 4, 2007

Good grief, this thread is just embarrassing. I can not fathom how this could be enjoyable, or a "turn on," or anything otherwise pleasant. And I'm not convinced that this is "normal" or done by a majority of people.

For instance:
Sex is about objectification. You aren't having sex with her because of her mind or her personality. Those may be reasons that you're marrying her, but they aren't the reason you want to put your boy part in her girl part
Uh...excuse me? People SHOULD be having sex with someone they love BECAUSE of their mind and their personality. People have sex with whores and prostitutes for the "objectification" stuff.

Sorry, but I'm gonna give you the opposite advice. If she wants to be called whore and other such names, then you're probably right to feel uncomfortable and awkward about it. That's your inner conscience telling you that something ain't quite right with the situation.

Am I telling you not to do it, or to call off the wedding? No. But rather than taking the advice of the rest of the folks here and simply running with it, you might want to consider what factors are at play here -- with her emotions, her self-image, her ego -- and yours, too.
posted by davidmsc at 8:23 PM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]

My advice? Start reading Savage Love, and enjoy your healthy sex life.
posted by chrisamiller at 8:30 PM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]

My advice? Watch that sequence toward the end of Sideways a few times, and enjoy your healthy sex life.
posted by staggernation at 8:40 PM on April 4, 2007

In this case, "treating her with utmost respect" means trusting her when she says she likes something ultimately harmless and not treating her like she's deviant for it. Likewise, if it really intensely bothers you, it would not be respectful of her to require it of you.

1. No, you shouldn't feel bad for respecting her wishes and striving to turn her on.
2. Yes, this is fairly common. Is it accepted? Dude, this is your bedroom. If you and your girl accept it, that's all that matters.
3. More harmful would be to recoil in horror. It's not harmful to accommodate her and try to get comfortable with her preferences, as you're doing here. In fact, it's downright healthy.

She knows you're crazy about her. She trusts you enough to ask for this. Trust her back.
posted by heatherann at 8:45 PM on April 4, 2007 [4 favorites]

I can not fathom how this could be enjoyable, or a "turn on," or anything otherwise pleasant. And I'm not convinced that this is "normal" or done by a majority of people.

Then you don't really have any business telling OP and his SO not to do it, do you? If you don't find it enjoyable, and your mate doesn't find it enjoyable, then you shouldn't be doing it. But his does, and so does he apparently, so let him live. Lots of people have ego issues, fantasies about dominance, rape, etcetera. That doesn't make them bad people, doesn't mean they have fucked up psyches, and doesn't mean you can't marry them.
posted by jckll at 9:01 PM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]

davidmsc, just because you can't fathom how it could be enjoyable and don't think it's normal, doesn't mean it's not enjoyable and normal for other people.

While I certainly don't agree that sex is about objectification (though it's mainly a quibble with such a course term), I'd point out that yours is literally the only "other opinion" saying "No! Don't do it!" So maybe it's not so unusual as you think?
posted by me3dia at 9:29 PM on April 4, 2007

But by the same token, just because perfectly good, normal people like it doesn't mean that all perfectly good, normal people do.

If it makes him feel terrible, then it does, and he shouldn't be expected to do it. Or at the very least, not very often.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:44 PM on April 4, 2007 [3 favorites]

learn to distinguish between play and reality. just because she wants you to think of her in a certain way in that situation doesn't mean that she actually considers herself that, it means she fantasizes about a certain situation. you are different when aroused, too (some say the difference is about 80 SAT points but that's another matter).

talk to her, let her tell you what's going on in her head. and then start enjoying yourself. stop worrying. you have a great girlfriend, go explore with her.
posted by krautland at 10:35 PM on April 4, 2007

exciting because transgressive as someone wrote. if you keep saying it, it will cease to feel transgressive to her, it will be rote and boring. so where do you go from there? my advice is, yes, do what she wants and allow yourself to enjoy it; but don't lose sight of the love you have for each other.
posted by londongeezer at 10:49 PM on April 4, 2007

Mod note: some RAR RARR back-and-forth trimmed; take it to email if you can't brook one another's opinions
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:05 PM on April 4, 2007

She wouldn't ask you to do it if you were supposed to feel bad for it.
posted by sunshinesky at 12:46 AM on April 5, 2007

I should have thought of this before: Even if you decide you aren't comfortable calling her names, you still have many other options for discussion that she may enjoy.

Generic possibilities, off the top of my head --
-Description of current activities
-Statement of your feelings/opinions
-Appraisal of your partner and/or her actions
-Hypothesis about your partner's feelings/opinions
-Rhetorical question or genuine inquiry about same
-Proposal of (possibly hypothetical) future activity

With those, you could construct the filthiest dialogue found in porn. But they also account for the opposite end of the scale -- "You are so beautiful, honey . . . does this feel good?" It would be easy to start on that end of the spectrum and slowly edge farther until you and she agree on a happy medium.
posted by booksandlibretti at 1:24 AM on April 5, 2007 [4 favorites]

I'm kinky and I engage in this particular type of play from both ends.

No, you shouldn't feel bad for doing it.

Yes, lots of people enjoy it. They enjoy it because it gives them a woody (or the female equivelant), not because they harbor resentment or don't respect their partner.

Yes, you should stop or at least slow down until you're more comfortable with it. You may have to come up with a way to ease into it.

I'm a pervert. If I'm talking to a potential top or bottom on IM, I'll rattle off a list of sexual preferences that would make your grandmother call the police. I go to parties specifically to be with other perverts and do kinky stuff. But, still, I have great difficulty doing certain things that are really no big deal at all. For example, I don't like to take my shirt off in front of other people. If we stop and look at the reasons why I feel this way, do we discover insecurities and other such silliness that ought to be overcome? Sure. Absolutely. But that doesn't mean I should ignore the feeling. Quite the contrary, really; if it's a touchy issue, all the more reason to pay attention to those feelings.

The point is simply that everyone has their limits and those limits have to be respected; by other people, of course, but also by you. I've been tempted to violate my own limits. And every time I've done so, I've regretted it.

And no, it doesn't make any difference that you have mixed feelings about the limit in question. There are a number of activities about which I have mixed feelings, but for various (very sensible) reasons, they're on my list of limits. If it's on the list, then it's on the list, damnit. A limit is a limit, regardless of how it got to be that way. You just don't violate limits. It's one of the most important rules in BDSM play and I'll bet swingers and other kinky folks would say the same thing. When limits aren't respected, people can get hurt (usually emotionally rather than physically, though the latter can certainly happen), and then they withdraw and stop playing. If everyone did that, soon there'd be no one to play with. So it's really just an issue of self preservation for the pervert species

Now, it could be that at some point in the future you will be able to take this activity off your list of limits. If so, good for you. Until then, I advise a very slow process of acclimation. Doing things that make you uncomfortable will lead to you doing nothing. And that'd be a shame.
posted by Clay201 at 2:03 AM on April 5, 2007 [8 favorites]

I'm with booksandlibretti here. I totally enjoy explicit raunchy dirty talk but I've never liked demeaning names used during sex (slut, whore, bitch). I would be very uncomfortable were I asked to use them and it would bother me if someone used them to me. I think of them as "porn cues": they excite people because of their taboo nature (calling a "good girl" a nasty ho!) and they excite people because they've seen similar behavior in porn.

Yes, it's common that people use and enjoy such name-calling. No, it's not useless to examine the social contexts in which we are trained to see if we find it healthy to perpetuate certain ideas. (I mean, myself, I'd be questioning a guy that calls me "princess" or who thinks he should "treat (me) like a princess" as much as one that wants to use "slut" or "whore" during sex - simply because I don't think it's a good thing as a woman to be framed either way. So this isn't about prudery.)

I will also absolutely say that the bedroom door is not some kind of vacuum lock and issues of how you play with each other sexually can indeed spill over into your everyday life. It is useful to question and examine why you or she likes this or that or how comfortable you really are with that or the other. "If it feels good, do it, and who cares why" is short-sighted, IMO.

Anyway, in the end, if you're okay with it and she's okay with it, what you do privately with each other is ultimately your choice and your business. But if you're honestly uncomfortable with the name-calling, there are plenty of other ways to enjoy dirty talk (listed above by b&l) - so a compromise is easily possible.
posted by Melinika at 4:42 AM on April 5, 2007 [4 favorites]

It's roleplaying. The fact that they're such taboo labels is what's so hot for her.

If she has outright told you it's ok to do it during sex, (not to mention she gets off on it) and that it doesn't maker her feel bad, you should keep on doing it. You said you even kind of enjoy it yourself.

Personally if my gfs in the past didn't have a problem with it, it was fine. What's important is how you treat her OUTSIDE of sex....
posted by PetiePal at 6:56 AM on April 5, 2007

I suspect that the OP will get used to this pretty quickly and come to really love it - he's just experiencing a bit of initial anxiety. The only thing I really have to add is that, if you keep up with this, one day down the line you are bound to go a little too far and call her something that she finds doesn't turn her on at all. It may be cunt. It may be something else. My suggestion to you, OP, is to ask your fiancee if there are any words she is particularly against, so that you don't ruin the moment (evening...week...) by using a word/term she completely abhors.
posted by infinityjinx at 7:09 AM on April 5, 2007

It's been said above that one of the reasons that your gf may like this is because it's transgressive, and contrary to the way you usually interact. I'd agree with that, and not to theorize too much, I'd say that that's the reason that this could actually be good for your relationship.

One way to think about it is that those words and phrases test the rest of your relationship, test the respect that you obviously hold for her, allow her to be loved at the same time that she is being used. Not that all of that is conscious, but the feeling that someone can playact scorn without losing their genuine love and respect for you is not dissimilar to the idea that someone can be really mad with you (or you with them) and their love can withstand it: both feelings ultimately strengthen confidence in the relationship. Just as a toddler saying to their parent "I hate you," to which the parent responds with even tempered forbearance, strengthens the toddler's sense that it's ok to rely on this person.

But if you look at it like that it makes it more important than otherwise to be able to feel decent about the name-calling, and above all, to not allow play scorn to develop into real scorn.

I'm going to be honest and suggest that this is something that could end badly. The danger is that you, anon, will begin to have some contempt for your gf precisely because she enjoys this thing which you find to be a bit disturbing. If you can resolve your feelings about it, then I think it is normal and good and fun. If you can't, and you only want to do it to please her, you should ask yourself whether or not you're likely to think less of your gf because she enjoys this. If so, it might be a bad idea to engage in this kind of play.

On the other hand, if your fear is simply that in reality you did like it, then let go of your guilt and have a good time.
posted by OmieWise at 7:34 AM on April 5, 2007 [1 favorite]

Talk dirty to your girlfriend.

It's perfectly normal and healthy for her to crave dominant sex.

Personally, I tend more toward the sub spectrum. However, the last girlfriend I had wanted me to dominate her from time to time. I'll admit that I didn't really enjoy it at first, but once I got into it, it was actually kinda fun. She would also dominate me when I wanted it, and the whole thing worked out really well.
posted by kenoshakid at 8:05 AM on April 5, 2007

With so much conflicting information out there about how men are supposed to act in relationships, I'm not surprised that you feel a little wary about spouting off these kinds of epithets toward this woman you love. I'm sure that outside the bedroom, you're a wonderful boyfriend in every sense - just the kind of guy women say they want to marry.

But are those qualities what women want in the bedroom? Not usually. Having nurturing, respectful sex is nice every once in a while, but I'm sure everyone would agree that it would get a little old after a while. If sex is at all something that she enjoys (and it sounds like it is) then she's going to do something about it to make it enjoyable. You should at least be encouraged that she's acting out her fantasies with you and not somebody else who really thinks she's a whore.

Your soon-to-be wife has just opened up a very interesting door for you. I'd advise you to walk through it, but leave your personae behind. She's given you permission to be whoever you want to be in bed, and I'm willing to bet that she'd be more than happy to indulge in a few of your fantasies as well.
posted by tjvis at 8:09 AM on April 5, 2007

I sort of found it pretty hot too...Is this sort of thing 'normal' in the wider world?

The real issue here isn't the question of whether this behavior is extremely common - it is - it's that you are an adult who is about to get married, and you haven't come to terms with your own sexuality, or your girlfriend's.

You have the right to take a 1950s sitcom view of relationships if you like, but given that you're a young man in the 21st century, you may want to look around just a teeny tiny little bit. You'll be shocked (shocked) to find a ton of popular mainstream movies, books, TV shows, and magazines that deal frequently and casually with the subject of this question. You don't have to take your cues from them by any means, but...have you really never read or seen any of them? Have you really never discussed this subject with friends?

Maybe you should spend a little bit more time getting to know yourself and what you want before you decide you're sure about who is the best person to give it to you for the rest of your life.
posted by bingo at 8:34 AM on April 5, 2007

Nthing booksandlibretti on this one. You don't want to call her names you find degrading? That's fine - you should both be into it and if you have a strong adverse reaction then that diminishes your enjoyment. You kinda enjoyed it too, but you seem so reluctant to examine this aspect of yourself and are just pre-judging it as bad that I don't feel confident you are discerning between finding it hot because of the names or because of the talking or because of the playacting or just because your girlfriend thought it was hot. You should try to figure that out.

But that aside, there's a whole realm of dirty talk out there and you can probably find something you both like. Descriptions (I'm fucking you so hard) and questions (you like that big hard cock [hey, why not flatter yourself while you're at it?]) may make you feel silly but I presume they don't cross your insult boundary.

If she really likes the taboo words like 'whore' and 'slut' and you really don't then maybe you can find some way to use them that you can live with. Everyone thinks you're so sweet but here in our bedroom you're MY slut? *shrug* If you're getting ready to marry this woman then I assume you've learned by now that relationships are about compromise, what you do during the horizontal mambo is just as important to negotiate as how you deal with the laundry.
posted by phearlez at 8:58 AM on April 5, 2007

I refuse to believe this is a real question.

However, on the chance it is, the very first comment nailed it.

1) No
2) Yes
3) Keep doing it
posted by Ynoxas at 9:02 AM on April 5, 2007

Having this conversation with someone who feels much like your partner, she made the following points:

If what you're asked to say doesn't express your actual feelings, how about just letting it express that you want to make her happy?

Why do people who express their discomfort with some of these scenarios still become noticably more excited physically when performing them?
posted by StickyCarpet at 2:12 PM on April 5, 2007

Madonna whore complex, anyone?

“Usually discussions of this complex revolves around the dichotomy of how some men can view women as two distinct and separate personas, that of saint and sinner, or of mother and whore. The complex can also center around the distinction between sacred love and profane love.”

Lemuria and Books&Libretti are smart and funny and lay out some useful principles of Sex-Positivity 101. Go to town!

But, um, has Feminism 101 been completely erased from the public consciousness? Or have all the commenters independently decided that a feminist analysis would either be unhelpful, or was so obvious as to not be worth mentioning?

(No, I’m not trying to oppose sex-positivity and feminism. I’m saying they are slightly different and they probably both have something to bring to this table.)
posted by kika at 2:46 PM on April 5, 2007 [1 favorite]

Hey, davidmsc isn't the only one. It would be disturbing to me, and I would discuss it with my partner if he wanted something like that. But I doubt this will ever happen and if I wanted role playing it's probably not going to be so stereotypic. There is no absolute right and wrong. It's what's right for you, even though as you can see the current trend is to think that particular behaviour is no big deal.
posted by Listener at 3:37 PM on April 5, 2007

1. thanks for the backup, Listener.

2. the madonna/whore dichotomy is interesting -- and I believe that such a dichotomy is arguably not the ideal mindset for experiencing sex. Healthy. true love - expressed via sex without the "whore" words and connotations - should be a positive, healthy, uplifting experience; incorporating "dirty" words and "filthy" talk would seem to diminish the romantic nature of sex and love.
posted by davidmsc at 4:31 PM on April 5, 2007

incorporating "dirty" words and "filthy" talk would seem to diminish the romantic nature of sex and love.

Sex is not inherently and exclusively romantic by nature, and love is not limited to mere romance. Both sex and love are far more complex (wonderfully so, I might add).

This is not to say that sex, love, and romance cannot or do not intersect -- of course they can, and at times quite spectacularly! It is, however, to dispute what appears to be your underlying assumption that all three are necessary components of each other in order to be healthy, and that anything deviating from idealized "romantic" sex (whatever that may be) is somehow unhealthy or impure.

I assure you, plenty of us are quite capable of having deeply happy, healthy, satisfying, and loving sexual relationships in a whole host of ways, incorporating a whole host of preferences, positions, and practices, even if you can't personally conceive of such a thing.
posted by scody at 6:58 PM on April 5, 2007 [3 favorites]

posted by davidmsc at 12:33 AM on April 6, 2007

Incorporating "dirty" words and "filthy" talk would seem to diminish the romantic nature of sex and love.

Yes, I can see now why you think of Dick Cheney as "principled": you're living in Bizzarro World. There could not possibly be a single thing more romantic in this entire weary world than the look on your beloved's face after the both of you really let go. (Hint, hint: the more repressed you are, odds are the better you know this, however subconsciously. There's a reason "Victoria's Secret" was originally called that.)

To the OP: I used to have a hard time with this, too, albeit coming from a different direction. As a junior leftie woodchuck, I had such a naive view of what constituted "respect" that, e.g., I couldn't utter the word "cunt" until I was in my twenties. My loss. And I was all about "her pleasure," too. All "sensitive." Eugh.

You know what? It turns out, at least in my case, that this was all fairly egotistical posturing, designed to shore up my sense of pride, assert my feminist bona fides. The moment I let go of this posturing, though, and started to listen to what I wanted, I also became much more genuinely able to participate in and respond to somebody else's pleasure.

And it turns out that, at least some percentage of the time, what women genuinely want - for that moment, with you, under this specific set of circumstances - is for you to do whatever you want to them, and generally to act in ways you'd never countenance otherwise. Frabjous day! Calloo callay! You get to act out your desires, and she does too. Is everything not for the best, in this best of all possible worlds?

This is why I'm sorta saddened by your language about being "conscious to make sure [your fiancée]'s been treated with the utmost respect." It's patronizing, infantilizing even. As others have pointed out, it sounds like you have a bad case of M/W.

I don't doubt your love for her, but with all due respect you might want to try thinking of her as an autonomous, fully-operational adult human being with a full complement of the ordinary needs, requirements and desires. From time to time, this might include the desire to be degraded, dominated, whatever. Once you've wrapped your head around that, there's no limit to how good the sex will get.
posted by adamgreenfield at 7:04 AM on April 9, 2007 [7 favorites]

Why do people who express their discomfort with some of these scenarios still become noticably more excited physically when performing them?

If you reluctantly do or say A at your partner's request, and your partner responds by getting very obviously excited, and you then get very excited right back, you probably are responding to your partner's excitement and your pleasure at having been the source of that excitement, and not necessarily responding positively to the notion that your partner is a naughty, naughty girl who needs a good spanking to teach her a lesson.
posted by pracowity at 5:19 AM on April 12, 2007 [4 favorites]

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