Please help me move to Toronto in a hurry!

September 9, 2005 6:04 AM

I am being transferred from NYC to Toronto in late October and, as I really only know TO as a tourist, have a couple of questions as I figure out where I should be looking for an apartment.

1. Are there any neighbourhoods in which a lot of first-generation Irish immigrants live or congregate (similar to Woodside and Woodlawn in New York, if you know them)?

2. Is the Greektown neighbourhood a nice area to live?

3. If neither of the above are positive, where would you recommend I base myself, at least initially? I'm 28, female, professional, will be working near Yonge & St.Clair, have no car, am more pubs and parks than clubs and theatre, and will be living alone until my boyfriend joins me early next year. I did read some of the neighbourhood links in this post, but found a lot of it a bit overwhelming, so I am looking more for personal reactions than dry real estate descriptions.

4. Oh, and while I'm typing, are there any consumer websites that compare plans from the likes of banks, cellphone, internet and cable providers (I have a vague notion that Rogers provides all these but know nothing else)?

5. As I know exactly NOBODY in Toronto maybe we could get a meetup together when I move up there so I can develop my Canadian accent and find somebody to teach me to ice skate . . . .

Thanks so much for any advice you can offer. I'm a bit like a deer in the headlights in planning this move!

posted by jamesonandwater to Home & Garden (32 answers total)

1: Cabbagetown.

2: Only if you like food.

3: Yonge & Eglinton is a nice area, and fairly close by subway. Good pubs, last time I was there.

4: Canadian banks are horrible. All of them. It doesn't matter which, really. For internet, Rogers and Bell are the big two. You'll get amazing/shitty service depending on your area. Check DSLReports.com for whatever part of town you move into.

5: If I still lived in Toronto, I'd be there. :)
posted by Jairus at 6:12 AM on September 9, 2005

I know Toronto fairly well but have never lived there, so I will leave most of the neighbourhood suggestions up to T.O. residents, but I will weigh in with a few comments. My friends that live on the Danforth (Greektown) seem to really like it. My brother used to live in the "annex" (near Honest Ed's) when he was a student at U of T, and that was also fairly decent.

As far as consumer comparison websites go, cellphones.ca is an excellent resource.

For banking, I can't say enough good things about President's Choice Financial. I have been a happy PCF financial customer for 6 years or so. However, if you're not comfortable with mostly online and ATM transactions (there are no real PCF "branches", though they do have kiosks in Loblaws grocery stores), you might want to go with a more traditional bank.

For general smart shopping info, my favourite site is Red Flag Deals. I recommend searching the RFD forums for info on Toronto banking, phone, internet, etc. If you can't find the answer in the archive, post a question and the folks there will be more than happy to help you out.
posted by sanitycheck at 6:18 AM on September 9, 2005

1) Cabbagetown, but Toronto is so multicultural that it's sort of moot. Pick neighborhoods based on what you want to do and how much you want to spend.

2) eh, no opinion.

3) Pay attention to the mass transit map. You can live anywhere near a subway line and have a reasonable commute to Yonge and St. Clair. I personally recommend living downtown, which is the most exciting part of the city and the most no-car-friendly.

4) Canadian banks are horrible. However, there are several credit unions: Metro Credit Union, Citizen's Bank of Canada, President's Choice, maybe one more. Rogers and Bell are your main choices for telecom.

NOW is the equivalent of the Village Voice. Suggest you read each weekly issue, look for things you like to do, find out where those things happen, then live near there. :)
posted by jellicle at 6:32 AM on September 9, 2005

Hi. I've lived in Toronto for about 9 years now and know it pretty well... though it seems like I've been here forever.

Anyway:

1. Uh... no? My neighbourhood is full of Polish people. There are Indian, Chinese, Thai, Vietnamese neighbourhoods, Orthodox Jewish even, but no Irish to my knowledge. Go figure.

2. Greektown, sure. Toronto is sort of divided east-west along the Don Valley and people tend to stick to one side. Greektown is east. Downtown is west so you might want to go west, but I say that mainly 'cause I live out west.

3. I live near High Park. A great neighbourhood. The biggest park in town. Somewhat reminiscent of Central Park, well, maybe only in the sense that it's a big park. High Park is close to the east-west (Bloor-Daanforth) subway line, which makes it easy to get downtown and even parts somewhat north like Yonge & St Clair.

Also, there are nice apartments in the Yonge & St Clair neighbourhood too. I lived one block south of there when I moved here years ago and it's very nice. The houses are incredibly expensive, but the apartments are no worse (cost-wise) than anywhere. Walking to work would be nice...

An there are plenty of nice pubs just about everywhere. Much nice than most of the bars in Manhattan in my limited experience. (excepting the fancy places)

4. Canada has 5 banks. They're all the same. Cable in Toronto comes from Rogers. There are 3 cell phone providers. Their coverage, downtown, is all roughly the same. Their prices are all pretty much the same. Canada, in total, has around the same number of people as the greater NYC area, so competition in these areas is a wee bit less than the US. You can get internet via cable or DSL (from Bell). Price is pretty much the same, service is pretty much the same (good speed, bad support).

5. Uh, sure. Post to MetaTalk?

Best of luck with your move!
posted by GuyZero at 6:43 AM on September 9, 2005

There's a good tram system there too.
posted by brujita at 6:47 AM on September 9, 2005

Given what you've said, I'd suggest you consider the Annex or "Liberty Village" (that's the less crackwhorey part of Parkdale) for places to live. Annex is a mix of students and yuppies. Liberty Village is a mix of crack whores and yuppies. They're both relatively close to downtown, with a mix of housing options and price ranges. Liberty Village is more clubby, while Annex is more pubby.

Toronto Mefites love meet-ups, post in the grey when you know you're going to be here or visiting, and we'll definitely meet.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:48 AM on September 9, 2005

1. I'll defer to your knowledge of T.O., Jairus, but... are you sure? I don't recall Toronto having an identifiable first-gen Irish community as most came two or three gens ago.

2. The Danforth is the big Greektown. Many bars, restos, etc. I've never heard it described as a good place to live.

3. I live on Roncesvalles Avenue, which is in the west end and very close to High Park. I like the neighbourhood; it's perhaps best defined by the very sizeable Polish population and the beautiful houses. But it's still affordable.

4. What Jairus said. Canada's financial and telecommunications megalopolies have bred a particular arrogance and incompetence on the part of those firms. I've found Scotia is marginally less evil than others. The less said about Bell the better.

5. Sure, although I can't offer ice-skating lessons.
posted by docgonzo at 7:00 AM on September 9, 2005

(that's the less crackwhorey part of Parkdale)

Yeah, fuck you too, jacquilynne. I'll make sure to avoid you and your bigotry at the next meetup.
posted by docgonzo at 7:01 AM on September 9, 2005

One additionally evil thing about Canadian banks is that you'll arrive with zero credit rating. PC Financial wouldn't touch us as new immigrants.

We found Toronto Neighbourhoods quite useful when we arrived. It could be better correlated with other references like TTC, though.

Welcome to Toronto, btw. There are a bunch of mefites here.
posted by scruss at 7:02 AM on September 9, 2005

Yay, Roncesvalles! What are the odds of two MeFites on Roncy?

Well, on second thought, pretty good I suppose, now that I think about it. I'm actually on Fermanagh, which although Irish in name, has no Irish people on it.

And, yes, ignore labels like "less crackwhorey". Toronto has bad neighbourhoods. Well, not bad, but different neighbourhoods have different, uh, "socio-economic resident profiles" and some are less desirable than others. Parkdale isn't the best neighbourhood in town, but it's better than many and for someone coming from NYC I'm sure it won't raise any eyebrows.

In a more useful comment, Toronto Life magazine publishes an annual analysis of Toronto neighbourhoods (it may be called a real estate guide). It has all kinds of state, like average income, renters vs owners, % with university degrees, all sorts of social stratification stuff. It's only in print though - at least I can't find it online. If you can come up for a weekend to househunt, try stopping by a library (saturdays only! closed sundays) and looking for it in the archives. Most libraries should have a copy.
posted by GuyZero at 7:22 AM on September 9, 2005

1 - Not that I know of...I would hardly say Cabbagetown, as that is a bit pricy for first-generation immigrants. It *used* to be where newly-arrived Irish settled, but that is a long time ago.
2 - I lived in close proximity to Greek town for 4 yrs and loved it. There is a great Irish pub, the Dora Keogh. Right next door is Allen's (same owners), a nice restaurant. Lots of Irish servers there. Greek town has tons of great restaurants, good butchers, cheese stores ...
3 - Greektown also gives you great access to parks, see here. You can cycle, blade, picnic, or take a short walk to Don Valley Brickworks which has been turned into a wetlands preserve, and has otters, turtles, tons of birds...

Anywway, there are *tons* of nice neighbourhoods in Toronto. Maybe if you gave us more of a feel for what you like, we could help more. Do you like hustle-and-bustle, food, urban grit, peace and quiet, proximity to water, proximity to highway...
posted by SNACKeR at 7:23 AM on September 9, 2005

Here's a site for comparing cellular networks/rates. Unfortunately, with only three major carriers available, there's just not enough competition for prices to be attractive.

Here's a financial services calculator that you can use to compare service charges among the banks (and a credit union or two). For better interest rates on you savings, check out either ING Direct or ICICI Bank Canada. Metro Credit Union and CS CO-OP, both listed on that calculator link above, have merged to form Alterna Savings.
posted by bachelor#3 at 7:25 AM on September 9, 2005

"Greektown" is on the Danforth. The area south of the Danforth, known as Riverdale, is about the greatest place to live in Toronto - nice houses, liberal population, easy access to Greektown, Little India and a sort of mini-Vietnam/China Town. Plus Danforth is on the subway line. It's not cheap (better than the Annex) but it's worth it.

There is the weird bias held by some living west of Younge, north of St. Clair that no life exists to the East. They're wrong.
posted by theinsectsarewaiting at 8:05 AM on September 9, 2005

An ex-Torontonian of eight years' experience (and a lifetime of vacations, family visits, etc.) weighing in . . .

1. There's no single Irish neighbourhood in the city, in part because T.O. has always been much more Scottish than Irish in character. Cabbagetown may have been an Irish enclave circa 1900, but it's now a polyglot mix of yuppie residents, South Asian businesses, several very good pubs, rundown coffee shops, and homeless shelters.

2. Greektown's a great place to live - the area south of Danforth, which goes by the name of Riverdale, is particularly trendy. Several nice parks, served by the subway and several streetcar lines. Commute to Yonge & St. Clair would be 20 min. at most. Permanent residents are more yuppie than Greek these days, but the Danforth strip still has dozens of great Greek restaurants, butchers, etc., not to mention good greengrocers, sushi joints, a couple of brasseries, etc. Go a few subway stops further east, and halal butchers and Pakistani restaurants proliferate. A few blocks south of the Danforth strip is Gerrard St. (my old stomping grounds), which sports a small Chinatown, and a few blocks south of that is Queen St. East, which is sprouting hip new pubs and eateries at a fantastic rate of speed. (Queen East may well be the new Queen West, as it were.)

3. Where else? The Ossington St. neighbourhood between Bloor and Dundas has tons of great rental spaces, cheaper than the Annex and a shorter commute than High Park, close to College St.'s dozens of trendy pubs, clubs and eateries. Yonge and Eglinton area has lots of big apt buildings and all modcons, plus bars packed to the gunnels with twentysomething newcomers. It's often referred to, with mild derision, as Yonge & Eligible. A bit milquetoast compared to Cabbagetown, but totally serviceable. The St. Clair strip west of Bathurst (which eventually becomes Via Italia, which is much more Italian these days than hyper-trendy, sushi-barred Little Italy on College) is increasingly pleasant, cheap rent, and a short streetcar ride to your place of business.

4. & 5. Not really my forte(s). But yes, all the major Cdn banks are identical, and none are particularly good to small clients.
posted by gompa at 8:16 AM on September 9, 2005

and find somebody to teach me to ice skate . . . .

First step: it's just skating, not ice skating. Just as ice hockey is simply hockey. In fact, since just about everything we do up here is done on ice, you should learn to drop the "ice" from most things. Even ice basketball, ice dancing, and ice taking-out-the-garbage.
posted by Robot Johnny at 8:21 AM on September 9, 2005

The articles section on redflagdeals is overlooked, but very useful. In particular the Canadian 'High' Interest Savings Accounts pt1 and pt2, and Canadian No-fee Credit Card Rewards Programs pt1 and pt2 - in each case pt2 is where the real meat is.

For Toronto, the vacancy rate has been high in the last couple of years, so finding an acceptable place won't be too hard. I expect the advice is the same as anywhere else, the deal you get is all in the legwork. There are lots of sites with listings of rental units in Toronto, but none of them are particularly wonderful. U of T's housing service is pretty useful, but you need to be able to get access to it.

I wouldn't go near the Annex... Well what I mean to say is, I would go near the Annex, but not in the Annex. The real estate agents call my neighborhood Palmerston and/or the South Annex, the rent can be 10-20% less and it is just as 'safe', although less snooty (I happen to like that it is less snooty, but to each his own I suppose). In both cases you are looking for apartments in houses unless you want to pay ridiculous rates.

I think the best deals in rent downtown are in and around The (Gay) Village (my circle is a bit larger than the actual Village I guess...). The further east or south you go the worse the neighborhood, but last year I saw a huge (800+ sq.ft) and beautiful 1 bedroom on Isabella for ~$1000/month and a reasonably sized (~500 sq.ft) bachelor on Carleton for ~$650/month, although the park, Allen Gardens, might be a bit dodgy - both of those were apartments in buildings.

As for north of Bloor... I'm sure there are some nice places up there too...
posted by Chuckles at 8:50 AM on September 9, 2005

scruss writes "One additionally evil thing about Canadian banks is that you'll arrive with zero credit rating."

Um, isn't that true for most/all countries? I had zero credit when arriving in the US from Canada too. I just figured it was a "new credit system" thing, not a "evil Canadian bank" thing.

Robot Johnny writes "In fact, since just about everything we do up here is done on ice, you should learn to drop the 'ice' from most things."

Except iced tea. Tea in Canada is the hot kind, whereas in much of the States, tea denotes the cold kind. If you want cold tea, you have to ask for iced tea.

As for banks, yeah, they're pretty much all the same. Royal Bank, CIBC, HSBC, etc. Credit unions seem to be more popular in Canada than the US. Be prepared to feel a little out of place - it will be a little deceiving because it's the same language, many of the same brands, we drive on the same side, deal with many of the same issues, etc. But you will get many bonus points from Canadians if you take the time to listen, observe, and pay attention to the differences. The differences may be subtle, but that makes it even harder to pick up right away or put your finger on how to identify exactly what's a bit new. It's not like you're going to step on any toes in some big faux pas, but you definitely will get on our good side if you take the time to understand our side of things. Don't continually complain about the lack of (some) choices. Don't constantly complain about the taxes (well, a little is okay!). Ask questions, try to see our side of things, don't automatically assume it will be the same as home. I've always had lots of American friends (in Vancouver, but still), and the ones who had the best time were the ones who were open, curious, laid back, and expecting things to not be the same. They were the ones that ended up appreciating (mostly) the higher taxes, the more neighbourly approach, the less reactionary politics, the calmer but slower approach. Toronto is even more like the US (in my experience) or at least more "big city" than the west, but you'll still do well for yourself to go into everything with an open mind. Obviously you do have an open mind, as you are allowing yourself to follow this job to a new city and new country, but I thought that the point could still be gently made.
posted by fionab at 9:34 AM on September 9, 2005

I can say from experience Yonge and Davisville is pretty decent. Pretty quiet and very safe. It would probably be a 15 minute walk to work for you if you work near Yonge and St. Clair. There's a lot of apartment buildings in that area too, although I can't speak to their quality. And you're only a 10 minute walk from Yonge and Eglinton, where there's lots of pubs. Also a few parks in the area. A massively huge cemetary is right next door, and is full of pathways and trees and is great for bike rides and jogs, as long as you don't dwell on all the dead people. Essentially, you've got everything you need within a few blocks of Davisville. And Greenwin Property Mangement owns most of the rentals in that area, if you look into it. Good luck!
posted by Idiot Mittens at 9:36 AM on September 9, 2005

I'm a native Torontonian, and lived at Yonge & Davisville for many many years, it's safe, cool and very convenient. Look at the O'Shanter buildings on Lascelles Blvd. - you want "Brentwood Towers" (just west of Yonge, I lived in different apartments in these buildings for years), they're older buildings, but nicely laid out, great balconies, reasonable rents (especially now, with the glut of rentals available), short walk from the subway, and ten minutes' walk to Yonge & St. Clair. I'd avoid the Greenwin buildings (which are east of Yonge), they're a bit scary in my experience. I don't know of any really solid Irish neighbourhoods, but there are plenty of Irish pubs around (try Fionn McCool's on the Esplanade). Greektown is nice, I wouldn't want to live there again (too noisy, too busy), but there are some great restaurants.
posted by biscotti at 9:51 AM on September 9, 2005

Wow, thanks for all the thoughtful and helpful responses everybody. I am sitting with my handy "Where Toronto Maps" pamphlet next to me to scribble your comments on. The links are especially appreciated too.

Chuckles: Thanks for the diagrams!

SNACKer: That parks map is fantastic.

fionab: I'm Irish, not American so hot tea and high taxes are nowt new to me. But point taken, I hope I'm not someone who thinks Canada is a suburb of America.

You guys are the best, I'll get the first round when I post that meetup idea . . . .
posted by jamesonandwater at 10:02 AM on September 9, 2005

Yeah, fuck you too, jacquilynne. I'll make sure to avoid you and your bigotry at the next meetup.

Yes, because I'm the first person ever to refer to it as Crackdale. I'm not even sure what I'm supposedly bigoted against. Crack whores? Are they a protected class now?

On a more serious note, for Jameson&, what I meant about Liberty Village v. Parkdale is that Parkdale is an area of town that's run down and low income, and is known for having crime and drug problems. It's gradually yuppifying as people move in and renovate, and the yuppy parts, while annoyingly filled with yuppies, have somewhat lower crime rates. Liberty Village is at the Eastern edge and is kind of a trendy 'new media' area. It apparently still has a bit of a property crime problem - both people I know in the area have been broken into recently. But then, so have I, and I live in what's considered a 'safe' area of town, so it's all kind of a crapshoot. I just didn't want to direct you towards a neighbourhood without making clear that it does have a not so great reputation in terms of safety. As a single female who will be living alone, that might be of concern to you.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:56 AM on September 9, 2005

Yay, Roncesvalles! What are the odds of two MeFites on Roncy?


Three. I live right by the Taps!
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 11:08 AM on September 9, 2005

Well, I just moved from there! (To Old Mill. much nicer place!)

I've never lived in Greektown, but I've got friends out there who enjoy it.

Cabbagetown is gorgeous if you can find a place there. A friend lived there and she loved it! I've also got friends and Younge and Davisville and Younge and Eglinton, the places aren't bad, but lack character.

I've never been to a Toronto meetup, but I know I've seen plenty in the grey.

Enjoy the city, and good luck!
posted by defcom1 at 1:03 PM on September 9, 2005

I've lived in Toronto for 37 years and lived all over. If you work at Yonge and St. Clair there is no reason why you couldn't live within walking distance. It meets your criteria (nice, safe, pubs, no clubs, near transit).

I presently live at Bathurst/Spadina and St. Clair (near Casa Loma) and have for 12 years (about a 20 min walk west of Yonge or 6 min streetcar ride). I'm moving Oct/Nov however, probably to High Park/Roncesvalles area.

There aren't that many unsafe neighborhoods in midtown (St. Clair and Yonge) in my opinion but if you want to be close to work you could go as far north as Eglinton, as far West as Spadina or Bathurst, as far south as Bloor, and East to Mt. Pleasant or Bayview. Yonge and Eg is the best of those in my opinion, but it's a bit pricey/snooty (I worked there for 5 years). Those areas nice but that's it. No character, as defcom1 says.

I'm not a fan of Greektown except for the food or Cabbagetown really at all (lived in both, though not in years).

I also would recommend the Annex, which others have suggested. Nice shops, pubs, people your age, right on the transit line. Say... between Dupont and College and Spadina and Bathurst.

You can view apartments with this dreadful website. We also have a Craigslist.
posted by dobbs at 1:14 PM on September 9, 2005

4) Canadian banks are horrible. However, there are several credit unions: Metro Credit Union, Citizen's Bank of Canada, President's Choice, maybe one more. Rogers and Bell are your main choices for telecom.

jellicle - FYI: CB and PCF are most certainly NOT credit unions, a CU is not-for-profite, by law, PCF is not doing it as charity.

I agree though, the banks are horrid, find a credit union that treats you like a human and stay loyal!
posted by Cosine at 2:53 PM on September 9, 2005

oops.. profit
posted by Cosine at 2:53 PM on September 9, 2005

Cosine, Citizens Bank is part of VanCity Credit Union, so they're kind of a CU. Their online stuff is teh roxx0r.

(scruss is probably the only mefite in Scarborough.)
posted by scruss at 6:29 PM on September 10, 2005

Thanks for the last few responses lads, dobbs that website is indeed horrific . . . but useful.

Aww, scruss, hook your neighbours up with the site!
posted by jamesonandwater at 6:53 PM on September 10, 2005

If you want to keep your commute down, north of Bloor is probably the best idea. Otherwise, you'll be having to go on two subway lines, and through the insanity that is Yonge and Bloor Station at rush hour (where the two major lines cross). That is not fun.

I would especially not recommend going for somewhere like Parkdale or High Park. I really like Parkdale, but the commute from there would be terrible - 1/2 on streetcar or bus, then 1/2 hour on subway, maybe more. Not worth it. Same goes for the beaches in the east end (which are over-priced anyways).

If you can get a TTC (Toronto Transit Commission) map, definitely use it when looking at apartment locations. If you are going from the Bloor line to St Clair and Yonge, your commute could be 45 minutes or more (it's about 15 from Bloor to St Clair). That's compared to a 5 minute subway ride from Eglinton or 10 minute streetcar from St Clair West.

You might also save money by avoiding the premium people pay for being near Bloor, considering that you don't need to be. A lot of people live downtown to be closer to work, but since you'll be working uptown, it might be nice to be up there - all along Yonge (and in the backstreets) from St. Claire up to Lawrence is really nice, with restaurants, etc, clustered at St. Clair and Eglinton. St. Clair West (such as near Bathurst) is a very beautiful area - my friend found a really nice two bedroom for not that much off Bathurst just north of St. Clair. The St. Clair streetcar runs right along to Yonge, quite often.

My mother worked for several years at St. Clair and Yonge, and my friend lived there. It is very posh, but nice, with pubs. If you have the money, some of the nicest condominiums in the city are there (but they cost - the friend who was there lived with her father who was a bank VP). There are more pubs and restaurants near Eglinton (only two subway stops, but a stiff walk). My friend also lived there for a while - her mother rented a very nice small house just north of Eglinton - there are many restaurants and pubs, and treelined streets, and its decidedly less expensive than St. Clair and Yonge. I believe there is a large park near Lawrence and Yonge (another stop up from Eglinton), but I might be wrong.

Canadian pubs might be quite different - I have never been to Ireland, but in my experience, British pubs are quieter and more neighbourhoody. Canadian pubs are larger, more commercial and probably louder - more bar-like, as much as they try to be pubby.

I grew up in Toronto, and have friends from all over the city - and I'm afraid that I don't think there are any Irish areas, or even British, though Brits are the largest immigrant group. They just assimilate right away. Most Irish activities in town will be Irish heritage - also, until recently, Toronto was a very Orange city. But now, it's just a multicultural city - over 50% are non-white. This means the food is much better than it would be otherwise. (I show my bias, but I love spice.)
posted by jb at 2:35 AM on September 11, 2005

Oh - Greenwin is terrible. Or, maybe they are only terrible to poor people. I didn't think anyone could be worse than the Metro Toronto Housing Authority, but after they privatised my building, I learned even lower expectations.
posted by jb at 2:37 AM on September 11, 2005

jb, thanks for connecting the subway map to commute times for me. Your advice makes a lot of sense, and at least initially it would be awfully nice to be close to work while scoping out the rest of the city.
posted by jamesonandwater at 9:59 AM on September 11, 2005

jamesonandwater - My times are estimates, and I wasn't too sure how to connect up walking time and waiting time. If I were going, for instance, from Yonge&Bloor to my mother's old work just south of Yonge&St Clair, I think I would give myself 1/2 hour, but that would be also to include walking and waiting. The actual subway (from getting on train to getting off) would be more like 5 to 10 minutes. But the TTC information lines may be able to give you more accurate times for different times of day.

There are also 24 hour buses in Toronto - they are very safe (I'm a 28 year old woman, and I ride them often). There is a line along Yonge, and also one along Bloor, and Eglinton - there are several others, but I can't remember exactly which. (There is Islington, but that is way out in the west end of the city, where I grew up.)

TTC webpage.

I actually miss the TTC - I spent so much time on it in high school and university I am homesick for it : )
posted by jb at 10:35 AM on September 11, 2005