What to do about a landlord who doesn't like my pets?
August 18, 2012 6:28 PM Subscribe
Our landlord doesn't like our pets and wants us to voluntarily end the lease and move out. We don't want to move out. What now?
From the beginning(ish) We viewed an apartment, loved it and right away said we would take it. During the viewing it came up that we have two dogs and the landlord was fine with that. He did not ask if we have other pets and we did not mention that we did. We signed a lease and moved in. Two days or so after moving in, the landlord drops by unannounced and says he needs to come in to shut off the water and fix a plumbing issue in the upstairs apartment. I was not home at the time, just my boyfriend. He felt put on the spot and decided to let the landlord in. At which point the landlord found out about our other animals. We have four cats, three rabbits and three rats. The landlord was not pleased.
At the time he said "well there is nothing I can do now" but he later texted my boyfriend to say he wanted us to move out. He said he was "hurt we lied" and he expects we are lying about other things too? I think he is over reacting. Our lease states
"If pets on the premises are dangerous, cause allergic reactions or cause problems for other tenants or the landlord, the landlord has the right to file a Notice of Termination."
The building has two apartments and another couple is moving in upstairs. They are not living there yet. The landlord stated one of the problems being that one of them has cat allergies. My boyfriend ran into them today and asked, and one of them is allergic to cats. However, it is not severe and they don't think us having cats is going to be a problem. The apartments have separate furnaces.
My boyfriend called a local free legal clinic and they advised him that evicting people for having pets is a long process. The landlord would have to prove that the pets are directly causing problems for the other tenants. The part of the lease wording that bothers me is the "cause problems for...the landlord" This appears to be the official wording for Ontario renters law. What does it mean exactly? The landlord is out of town until Tuesday, we told him that we would get back to him with our answer.
I love this apartment. It is the nicest place we've ever lived. I do not want to move! I was so excited to live here! We have moved constantly over the last couple years from shitty place to shitty place and I was looking forward to staying and making a home for more than a year.
So what do I do? I think we should email the landlord assuring him that we are not going to wreck the place, we have a right to have pets, and that he should chill. How do I word this?
We are located in Ontario. Thank you, people of metafilter.
From the beginning(ish) We viewed an apartment, loved it and right away said we would take it. During the viewing it came up that we have two dogs and the landlord was fine with that. He did not ask if we have other pets and we did not mention that we did. We signed a lease and moved in. Two days or so after moving in, the landlord drops by unannounced and says he needs to come in to shut off the water and fix a plumbing issue in the upstairs apartment. I was not home at the time, just my boyfriend. He felt put on the spot and decided to let the landlord in. At which point the landlord found out about our other animals. We have four cats, three rabbits and three rats. The landlord was not pleased.
At the time he said "well there is nothing I can do now" but he later texted my boyfriend to say he wanted us to move out. He said he was "hurt we lied" and he expects we are lying about other things too? I think he is over reacting. Our lease states
"If pets on the premises are dangerous, cause allergic reactions or cause problems for other tenants or the landlord, the landlord has the right to file a Notice of Termination."
The building has two apartments and another couple is moving in upstairs. They are not living there yet. The landlord stated one of the problems being that one of them has cat allergies. My boyfriend ran into them today and asked, and one of them is allergic to cats. However, it is not severe and they don't think us having cats is going to be a problem. The apartments have separate furnaces.
My boyfriend called a local free legal clinic and they advised him that evicting people for having pets is a long process. The landlord would have to prove that the pets are directly causing problems for the other tenants. The part of the lease wording that bothers me is the "cause problems for...the landlord" This appears to be the official wording for Ontario renters law. What does it mean exactly? The landlord is out of town until Tuesday, we told him that we would get back to him with our answer.
I love this apartment. It is the nicest place we've ever lived. I do not want to move! I was so excited to live here! We have moved constantly over the last couple years from shitty place to shitty place and I was looking forward to staying and making a home for more than a year.
So what do I do? I think we should email the landlord assuring him that we are not going to wreck the place, we have a right to have pets, and that he should chill. How do I word this?
We are located in Ontario. Thank you, people of metafilter.
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's request -- restless_nomad
(Twelve assorted animals in an apartment IS kind of a lot, and honestly, you did kinda hide them from him.)
Does your lease specify anything about animals? Are there any limits as to how many, what kind, how big is permitted?
posted by easily confused at 6:34 PM on August 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Does your lease specify anything about animals? Are there any limits as to how many, what kind, how big is permitted?
posted by easily confused at 6:34 PM on August 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
I have a house that I rent out. that is a hell of a lot of animals in a house, much less an apartment. I'd be upset if a tenant had that many animals and only told me about the 2 dogs, especially if people elsewhere in the same building have allergies. Sorry, but I don't think you're in the right.
As for how to try to avoid being evicted, I'd be offering an additional deposit or something. That's the only thing I think would mollify me as a landlord.
posted by randomkeystrike at 6:36 PM on August 18, 2012
As for how to try to avoid being evicted, I'd be offering an additional deposit or something. That's the only thing I think would mollify me as a landlord.
posted by randomkeystrike at 6:36 PM on August 18, 2012
The landlord isn't overreacting. It was crappy for you and your boyfriend to hide the fact that you had ten (TEN!) more pets than you originally stated. Ten! I don't think it's unreasonable for a landlord to object to a tenant having twelve (TWELVE!) pets. Heck, I'm finding it hard to find a landlord who's ok with my sweet, tiny dog.
Your email should say, "We understand that our additional pets were a shock. We'd like to continue living in this space, and we're committed to keeping the home clean and in good condition."
posted by mochapickle at 6:36 PM on August 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
Your email should say, "We understand that our additional pets were a shock. We'd like to continue living in this space, and we're committed to keeping the home clean and in good condition."
posted by mochapickle at 6:36 PM on August 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
You need a lawyer qualified in your jurisdiction and you need to not listen to anyone else in this thread. You rented the property a long with the legal rights that accompany it. Find out what those rights are. If they include keeping the number of pets you have in the way you do, then it's your home and your business. I repeat, ignore this thread and get a lawyer.
posted by howfar at 6:39 PM on August 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by howfar at 6:39 PM on August 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Can a landlord evict a tenant for having a pet?
A tenant can be evicted for having a pet in their unit only if:
the pet is making too much noise, damaging the unit, or causing an allergic reaction, or
the animal or species is considered to be inherently dangerous.
Even if the tenancy agreement has a ‘no pets’ rule in it, the tenant cannot be evicted just for having a pet unless the Board decides in an order that the pet is causing a problem, or that the pet is inherently dangerous.
via ltb.gov.on.ca
Application based on animals
76. (1) If an application based on a notice of termination under section 64, 65 or 66 is grounded on the presence, control or behaviour of an animal in or about the residential complex, the Board shall not make an order terminating the tenancy and evicting the tenant without being satisfied that the tenant is keeping an animal and that,
(a) subject to subsection (2), the past behaviour of an animal of that species has substantially interfered with the reasonable enjoyment of the residential complex for all usual purposes by the landlord or other tenants;
(b) subject to subsection (3), the presence of an animal of that species has caused the landlord or another tenant to suffer a serious allergic reaction; or
(c) the presence of an animal of that species or breed is inherently dangerous to the safety of the landlord or the other tenants.
2006, c. 17, s. 76 (1).
via ontariotenants.ca
No guarantees that twelve pets (!) in an apartment aren't going to be viewed as "inherently dangerous" or some such by the Board just for being twelve pets. I don't think many people are going to side with the view that the landlord is "over-reacting." Yes, you do want a lawyer if you want to try to keep the apartment. It might be a better idea to call it a difficult lesson and change apartment-hunting practice; this was not a great way to treat another person (your landlord) no matter what the lease says. You will never have a good landlord-tenant relationship with this guy, and that will make your nice apartment much less nice.
posted by kmennie at 6:43 PM on August 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
A tenant can be evicted for having a pet in their unit only if:
the pet is making too much noise, damaging the unit, or causing an allergic reaction, or
the animal or species is considered to be inherently dangerous.
Even if the tenancy agreement has a ‘no pets’ rule in it, the tenant cannot be evicted just for having a pet unless the Board decides in an order that the pet is causing a problem, or that the pet is inherently dangerous.
via ltb.gov.on.ca
Application based on animals
76. (1) If an application based on a notice of termination under section 64, 65 or 66 is grounded on the presence, control or behaviour of an animal in or about the residential complex, the Board shall not make an order terminating the tenancy and evicting the tenant without being satisfied that the tenant is keeping an animal and that,
(a) subject to subsection (2), the past behaviour of an animal of that species has substantially interfered with the reasonable enjoyment of the residential complex for all usual purposes by the landlord or other tenants;
(b) subject to subsection (3), the presence of an animal of that species has caused the landlord or another tenant to suffer a serious allergic reaction; or
(c) the presence of an animal of that species or breed is inherently dangerous to the safety of the landlord or the other tenants.
2006, c. 17, s. 76 (1).
via ontariotenants.ca
No guarantees that twelve pets (!) in an apartment aren't going to be viewed as "inherently dangerous" or some such by the Board just for being twelve pets. I don't think many people are going to side with the view that the landlord is "over-reacting." Yes, you do want a lawyer if you want to try to keep the apartment. It might be a better idea to call it a difficult lesson and change apartment-hunting practice; this was not a great way to treat another person (your landlord) no matter what the lease says. You will never have a good landlord-tenant relationship with this guy, and that will make your nice apartment much less nice.
posted by kmennie at 6:43 PM on August 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
I really think that you should move. You obviously didn't tell the landlord that you had a collection of animals because you knew it would probably cause an issue, because only two dogs "came up" during the process. There's no real issue with pets in the lease, sure....but there's pets and then there's PETS. You have PETS. It doesn't say anything about yaks either, or ducks, but what do you think the reaction might be? Those could technically fit the criteria.
I'm not necessarily saying you're not immaculate, but I have never been in an apartment with that many animals that didn't have issues, no matter how clean the owners were.
As far as ignoring this thread, seriously? A contract is made in good faith, and you did not act in good faith. IANAL, but I'd just feel so badly about it.
posted by nevercalm at 6:45 PM on August 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm not necessarily saying you're not immaculate, but I have never been in an apartment with that many animals that didn't have issues, no matter how clean the owners were.
As far as ignoring this thread, seriously? A contract is made in good faith, and you did not act in good faith. IANAL, but I'd just feel so badly about it.
posted by nevercalm at 6:45 PM on August 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
How big is this apartment? Here is Ontario tenant law about pets, but please investigate whether or not there are other laws. I know that here, if someone is found with an excessive number of pets then the authorities (Humane Society and others) remove the pets from the premises and presumably there are other issues. I don't know how they determine how many pets are too many, but you've reached a number that warrants finding out.
posted by Houstonian at 6:45 PM on August 18, 2012
posted by Houstonian at 6:45 PM on August 18, 2012
"If pets on the premises are dangerous, cause allergic reactions or cause problems for ... the landlord, the landlord has the right to file a Notice of Termination."
Speaking with a lawyer would be the most prudent thing to do here.
However, IMO you (as a couple) behaved in a pretty shitty way here, and the fact that you love the apartment doesn't trump your moral obligations to others. Wanting something does not justify behaving badly to others; having a legal right does not necessarily justify exercising it.
So what do I do? I think we should email the landlord assuring him that we are not going to wreck the place, we have a right to have pets, and that he should chill. How do I word this?
You should not do this.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 6:47 PM on August 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Speaking with a lawyer would be the most prudent thing to do here.
However, IMO you (as a couple) behaved in a pretty shitty way here, and the fact that you love the apartment doesn't trump your moral obligations to others. Wanting something does not justify behaving badly to others; having a legal right does not necessarily justify exercising it.
So what do I do? I think we should email the landlord assuring him that we are not going to wreck the place, we have a right to have pets, and that he should chill. How do I word this?
You should not do this.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 6:47 PM on August 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
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posted by ablazingsaddle at 6:33 PM on August 18, 2012 [1 favorite]