Car handbrake - first gear too?
April 12, 2012 12:14 AM Subscribe
Is it necessary these days for a car parked on a hill to be put in first gear, as well as engaging the hand brake?
Necessary? Probably not. Smart? Definitely. Also, what the Real Dan said.
posted by dg at 1:13 AM on April 12, 2012
posted by dg at 1:13 AM on April 12, 2012
Best answer: On a modern expensive car, I've had a handbrake cable snap.
There is a still a mechanical linkage between the handbrake-lever and the brakes, and whatever form that system takes, it can still fail. If it fails, you REALLY want the car to be in gear.
Some cars also have ascension brakes, meaning they mechanically grip harder if the car rolls backwards - but the same mechanism means they relax the grip if the car rolls forward. So you can safely park very steeply uphill, but are not as secure as you think when facing downhill - a bump forward can ease the brakes and get the car moving. This is great for hill starts - you WANT the brakes to ease as you start moving forward - and great for parking uphill, but... gotta be careful with downhill!
In the case of my cable snapping, it snapped near a brake, not at the lever, so one wheel had no brake at all, and the slack introduced to the cable meant the other wheel had reduced braking but still somewhat worked. Not enough to hold the car on hills though. Then the dealership, in the name of fixing it, removed all cables then returned the car while taking two weeks to get a replacement part. So for two weeks I was driving in one of the hilliest cities in the country, with no handbrake and lots of hill starts. Fun times.
It snapped as I engaged it. I knew the car well enough to notice that the resistance in the lever had changed, but I wouldn't be sure that everyone would notice.
posted by -harlequin- at 1:19 AM on April 12, 2012
There is a still a mechanical linkage between the handbrake-lever and the brakes, and whatever form that system takes, it can still fail. If it fails, you REALLY want the car to be in gear.
Some cars also have ascension brakes, meaning they mechanically grip harder if the car rolls backwards - but the same mechanism means they relax the grip if the car rolls forward. So you can safely park very steeply uphill, but are not as secure as you think when facing downhill - a bump forward can ease the brakes and get the car moving. This is great for hill starts - you WANT the brakes to ease as you start moving forward - and great for parking uphill, but... gotta be careful with downhill!
In the case of my cable snapping, it snapped near a brake, not at the lever, so one wheel had no brake at all, and the slack introduced to the cable meant the other wheel had reduced braking but still somewhat worked. Not enough to hold the car on hills though. Then the dealership, in the name of fixing it, removed all cables then returned the car while taking two weeks to get a replacement part. So for two weeks I was driving in one of the hilliest cities in the country, with no handbrake and lots of hill starts. Fun times.
It snapped as I engaged it. I knew the car well enough to notice that the resistance in the lever had changed, but I wouldn't be sure that everyone would notice.
posted by -harlequin- at 1:19 AM on April 12, 2012
I generally choose reverse as it is an even lower gear than first thus with more holding power. I have heard others choose reverse or first depending on which way the car is facing, on the theory that if the car ends up rolling anyway the engine will be turning in the proper direction, but the extreme unlikeliness of such a scenario makes the distinction unimportant in my mind.
posted by TedW at 5:37 AM on April 12, 2012
posted by TedW at 5:37 AM on April 12, 2012
I have a 2008 manual civic and used to park outside of my house on a not-very-steep slope, and twice my wonderful neighbor came knocking to let me know that my car was rolling down the street. I've since been much better about putting it in first gear or reverse.
posted by fromageball at 5:43 AM on April 12, 2012
posted by fromageball at 5:43 AM on April 12, 2012
I've wondered this too! Now if anyone has any tips for remembering to take the (manual) transmission OUT of gear before starting, so as not to leap forwards and terrify myself, I'd love to hear it!
posted by cilantro at 5:44 AM on April 12, 2012
posted by cilantro at 5:44 AM on April 12, 2012
This issue has also been addressed several times on Car Talk
posted by TedW at 5:49 AM on April 12, 2012
posted by TedW at 5:49 AM on April 12, 2012
cilantro writes "I've wondered this too! Now if anyone has any tips for remembering to take the (manual) transmission OUT of gear before starting, so as not to leap forwards and terrify myself, I'd love to hear it!"
It's pretty easy to add a clutch interlock to the starting circuit making it impossible to start the car without the clutch being depressed.
posted by Mitheral at 5:54 AM on April 12, 2012
It's pretty easy to add a clutch interlock to the starting circuit making it impossible to start the car without the clutch being depressed.
posted by Mitheral at 5:54 AM on April 12, 2012
I generally choose reverse as it is an even lower gear than first thus with more holding power. I have heard others choose reverse or first depending on which way the car is facing, on the theory that if the car ends up rolling anyway the engine will be turning in the proper direction, but the extreme unlikeliness of such a scenario makes the distinction unimportant in my mind.
That depends on the car. A lot of newer transmissions have a really short first gear these days.
But I agree, the best way is the old school way: turn the wheel away toward the curb and let the car roll back onto it so there is no stress on the brakes or engine while it is parked.
posted by gjc at 6:45 AM on April 12, 2012
That depends on the car. A lot of newer transmissions have a really short first gear these days.
But I agree, the best way is the old school way: turn the wheel away toward the curb and let the car roll back onto it so there is no stress on the brakes or engine while it is parked.
posted by gjc at 6:45 AM on April 12, 2012
All the Saab manual transmission cars I've driven have required the car to be in reverse before the key will come out of the ignition. Some will assert that this is just to to keep Saabs weird, but I think it's to prevent cars from rolling away like fromageball describes. They also come stock from the factory with a clutch interlock like Mitheral describes, so you don't have to worry about starting in gear. IMO, it's a thoughtful pair of features.
Of course, it means that when you lend your car to your mom, she's gonna leave the keys in it while she's shopping, unless you remember to explain.
N.B. that clutch interlock and its cousin, the automatic transmission's neutral safety switch, can disable a car if they fail because the car can't start unless these switches are operable. Something to add to your mental troubleshooting checklist if your car has these features.
posted by richyoung at 7:42 AM on April 12, 2012
Of course, it means that when you lend your car to your mom, she's gonna leave the keys in it while she's shopping, unless you remember to explain.
N.B. that clutch interlock and its cousin, the automatic transmission's neutral safety switch, can disable a car if they fail because the car can't start unless these switches are operable. Something to add to your mental troubleshooting checklist if your car has these features.
posted by richyoung at 7:42 AM on April 12, 2012
Would you not select the highest gear rather than the lowest? I speak from experience of trying to push start a vehicle in low gear. If you use high gear it will stop dead when you engage the clutch instead of keep rolling & turn over the engine.
posted by canoehead at 8:08 AM on April 12, 2012
posted by canoehead at 8:08 AM on April 12, 2012
What, nobody puts a brick on the downhill side of one of the tires anymore?
We had a very steep driveway when I was a kid, and even with the car in first and with the parking brake engaged, the car still ended up in the street a couple times before my mom started keeping a brick next to the driveway to throw behind the front tire when she got out of the car. Triple roll protection FTW!
posted by rabbitrabbit at 8:33 AM on April 12, 2012
We had a very steep driveway when I was a kid, and even with the car in first and with the parking brake engaged, the car still ended up in the street a couple times before my mom started keeping a brick next to the driveway to throw behind the front tire when she got out of the car. Triple roll protection FTW!
posted by rabbitrabbit at 8:33 AM on April 12, 2012
Of course if we'd had a curb that would have worked too. I guess the brick is like a little portable piece of curb.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 8:33 AM on April 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by rabbitrabbit at 8:33 AM on April 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't think it's required, but it's a good idea.
In general, the ONLY time I park my car in gear is if I'm parking on a hill.
If the car is pointed downhill, I park in reverse with the parking brake.
If the car is pointed uphill, I park in first (or sometimes second, which I've been told is a "stronger" gear) with the parking brake. Basically I want a gear going opposite to the direction the car would roll if the brake fails. Also, though I don't always do this, you are supposed to turn your wheels in toward the curb (if there is a raised curb)... this will make sure some tire hits the curb if your car starts rolling, and that might stop the car.
If I'm parking on a flat surface, I'll use the parking brake only and leave it in neutral. It irritates the hell out of me if I take my car to a mechanic or to get the oil changed or something and they park it in gear on a flat surface. That usually leads to me stalling (unless I look at the gear shift, which I have to make a conscious effort to do) as I generally start my car and immediately release the clutch while I do some things to get settled before driving off. Parking in gear on a flat surface is unnecessary.
posted by tckma at 8:49 AM on April 12, 2012
In general, the ONLY time I park my car in gear is if I'm parking on a hill.
If the car is pointed downhill, I park in reverse with the parking brake.
If the car is pointed uphill, I park in first (or sometimes second, which I've been told is a "stronger" gear) with the parking brake. Basically I want a gear going opposite to the direction the car would roll if the brake fails. Also, though I don't always do this, you are supposed to turn your wheels in toward the curb (if there is a raised curb)... this will make sure some tire hits the curb if your car starts rolling, and that might stop the car.
If I'm parking on a flat surface, I'll use the parking brake only and leave it in neutral. It irritates the hell out of me if I take my car to a mechanic or to get the oil changed or something and they park it in gear on a flat surface. That usually leads to me stalling (unless I look at the gear shift, which I have to make a conscious effort to do) as I generally start my car and immediately release the clutch while I do some things to get settled before driving off. Parking in gear on a flat surface is unnecessary.
posted by tckma at 8:49 AM on April 12, 2012
Now if anyone has any tips for remembering to take the (manual) transmission OUT of gear before starting, so as not to leap forwards and terrify myself,
Every stick shift car I have ever driven requires you to hold the clutch pedal in while you turn the key, or else it won't start. If you're also holding the brake pedal in, you won't jerk forward unexpectedly.
posted by tckma at 8:51 AM on April 12, 2012
Every stick shift car I have ever driven requires you to hold the clutch pedal in while you turn the key, or else it won't start. If you're also holding the brake pedal in, you won't jerk forward unexpectedly.
posted by tckma at 8:51 AM on April 12, 2012
Back in the day, my '81 Subaru did not have a clutch interlock, and it actually saved my butt once. Clutch cable broke while driving, car stuck in first gear. Used the starter motor (bad, I know, but limited options) to get it out of the road and onto the shoulder.
Whether it's a manual or an automatic, I always use the curb tricks and parking brake to take as much stress off the transmission as possible. Drives me NUTS when I ride with a friend, get in the car they parked on a hill and WHUNK! as they wrestle the poor thing out of Park.
posted by xedrik at 10:11 AM on April 12, 2012
Whether it's a manual or an automatic, I always use the curb tricks and parking brake to take as much stress off the transmission as possible. Drives me NUTS when I ride with a friend, get in the car they parked on a hill and WHUNK! as they wrestle the poor thing out of Park.
posted by xedrik at 10:11 AM on April 12, 2012
I had official lessons as a teenager when I learned to drive my automatic car. Later on, I got a standard vehicle, and learned to drive in an informal way - a friend showed me how. What this friend and I never talked about was parking. For years, I have been parking in neutral and then pulling up the parking brake, not realizing it should be in gear... which I only recently found out because my parking cable has seized from all of those years of parking incorrectly.
posted by analog at 4:24 PM on April 12, 2012
posted by analog at 4:24 PM on April 12, 2012
Would you not select the highest gear rather than the lowest? I speak from experience of trying to push start a vehicle in low gear. If you use high gear it will stop dead when you engage the clutch instead of keep rolling & turn over the engine.
It shouldn't work that way. The mechanical advantage works backwards when you are spinning a set of gears the other way.
Made up numbers for sake of simplicity: first gear might be a 4:1 ratio, where the engine turns 4 times to spin the tires once. Second would be 3:1, third would be 2:1 and first would be 1:1. When you are pushing a dead engine, the ratios get reversed to 1:1, 1:2, 1:3 and 1:4 for 4th, 3rd, 2nd and 1st.
When push starting a car, what you do is get the car rolling, let up the clutch to spin the engine and then let the clutch out again to let the engine spin on its own. If you keep the clutch in, the engine won't have enough torque to stay running in the higher gear. On the other hand, if you try to start it in a lower gear, you might not have enough torque to spin the engine at all because it will be dragging against you at that higher gear ratio. The smaller the engine, the less this effect will be. With a large engine, using anything but a higher gear will stop the car dead because there isn't enough energy in the system to overcome all that compression. So basically, you keep trying until you get a gear that works right.
posted by gjc at 6:19 PM on April 12, 2012
It shouldn't work that way. The mechanical advantage works backwards when you are spinning a set of gears the other way.
Made up numbers for sake of simplicity: first gear might be a 4:1 ratio, where the engine turns 4 times to spin the tires once. Second would be 3:1, third would be 2:1 and first would be 1:1. When you are pushing a dead engine, the ratios get reversed to 1:1, 1:2, 1:3 and 1:4 for 4th, 3rd, 2nd and 1st.
When push starting a car, what you do is get the car rolling, let up the clutch to spin the engine and then let the clutch out again to let the engine spin on its own. If you keep the clutch in, the engine won't have enough torque to stay running in the higher gear. On the other hand, if you try to start it in a lower gear, you might not have enough torque to spin the engine at all because it will be dragging against you at that higher gear ratio. The smaller the engine, the less this effect will be. With a large engine, using anything but a higher gear will stop the car dead because there isn't enough energy in the system to overcome all that compression. So basically, you keep trying until you get a gear that works right.
posted by gjc at 6:19 PM on April 12, 2012
cilantro: "I've wondered this too! Now if anyone has any tips for remembering to take the (manual) transmission OUT of gear before starting, so as not to leap forwards and terrify myself, I'd love to hear it!"
I have got myself into the habit of always pushing the clutch pedal in before starting a manual car, whether it's in gear or not. Except my own car, which as a power-assisted clutch that is almost impossible to depress when the engine is off. I invariably push my foot on the clutch, which makes me realise I can't depress it so I take it out of gear instead.
richyoung: "Of course, it means that when you lend your car to your mom, she's gonna leave the keys in it while she's shopping, unless you remember to explain."
Heh, my work car has an electronic handbrake that is operated by a button on the dash. I've had several people call me asking how to get the handbrake off. It doesn't help their mood that they have to take the lift back up the three floors out of the car park to get mobile phone coverage ;-)
posted by dg at 7:23 PM on April 12, 2012
I have got myself into the habit of always pushing the clutch pedal in before starting a manual car, whether it's in gear or not. Except my own car, which as a power-assisted clutch that is almost impossible to depress when the engine is off. I invariably push my foot on the clutch, which makes me realise I can't depress it so I take it out of gear instead.
richyoung: "Of course, it means that when you lend your car to your mom, she's gonna leave the keys in it while she's shopping, unless you remember to explain."
Heh, my work car has an electronic handbrake that is operated by a button on the dash. I've had several people call me asking how to get the handbrake off. It doesn't help their mood that they have to take the lift back up the three floors out of the car park to get mobile phone coverage ;-)
posted by dg at 7:23 PM on April 12, 2012
rabbitrabbit writes "What, nobody puts a brick on the downhill side of one of the tires anymore?"
I work at a heavy industrial site. All our vehicles from little Transit Connects up to massive end dumps are equipped with wheel chocks (IE: fancy shaped bricks) and we are required to use them any time a vehicle is stopped. Even on completely flat ground or when parked in a hole such that every direction is up.
posted by Mitheral at 5:03 PM on April 15, 2012
I work at a heavy industrial site. All our vehicles from little Transit Connects up to massive end dumps are equipped with wheel chocks (IE: fancy shaped bricks) and we are required to use them any time a vehicle is stopped. Even on completely flat ground or when parked in a hole such that every direction is up.
posted by Mitheral at 5:03 PM on April 15, 2012
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The order of operation makes a difference in the strain seen by the parking pawl.
Don't forget the proper set of the steering wheel, depending on whether you
have a curb or not, and if you are pointing uphill or downhill.
posted by the Real Dan at 12:47 AM on April 12, 2012 [4 favorites]