How do I accept my mother's behavior?
March 20, 2012 1:03 PM Subscribe
My mother won't accept that she hurt me emotionally as a teenager. How can I learn to deal with this situation without losing respect and love?
I am an introvert. I always had friends, activities, and went to parties but still liked to keep to myself every now and then. For my mother this was not enough. She always wanted me to be with other people, "play outside" and so on.
When I was a teenager, this became really hurting. Every day, she would ask me how I would spent the day and with whom. When I said "nothing", she would ask me what persons X, Y and Z are doing and why I'm not joining them. When I declined invitations to parties, I could see her die inside. She would randomly come to my room and ask questions like "Are you still reading?", "Didn't you want to do X?" (which I didn't).
None of these questions were asked out of interest in me as a person. Eventually, these became the only things we "talked" about and I felt terrorized every single day. I told her many times how I felt, we had fights - to no avail. As a defense, I would make up stories why I am at home Saturday night etc. I could not be my true self.
It stopped when I left for college. Today - early twenties, totally over it - after randomly touching the subject I learned that my mother doesn't accept or understand that she hurt me back then - even after telling her very clearly.
Now, I totally accept that she thinks she is right in her opinion ("every book says so"). But it hurts that she won't even acknowledge the fact that she hurt me deeply in terrorizing me with her opinion.
My question is how can I maintain the respect and love for this person when it _feels_ to me that she still (!) doesn't accept my personality?
I'm not interested in therapy or medication (seriously, what is it with you guys in the US?). Also, discussing it with her won't help, learned that today again.
I am an introvert. I always had friends, activities, and went to parties but still liked to keep to myself every now and then. For my mother this was not enough. She always wanted me to be with other people, "play outside" and so on.
When I was a teenager, this became really hurting. Every day, she would ask me how I would spent the day and with whom. When I said "nothing", she would ask me what persons X, Y and Z are doing and why I'm not joining them. When I declined invitations to parties, I could see her die inside. She would randomly come to my room and ask questions like "Are you still reading?", "Didn't you want to do X?" (which I didn't).
None of these questions were asked out of interest in me as a person. Eventually, these became the only things we "talked" about and I felt terrorized every single day. I told her many times how I felt, we had fights - to no avail. As a defense, I would make up stories why I am at home Saturday night etc. I could not be my true self.
It stopped when I left for college. Today - early twenties, totally over it - after randomly touching the subject I learned that my mother doesn't accept or understand that she hurt me back then - even after telling her very clearly.
Now, I totally accept that she thinks she is right in her opinion ("every book says so"). But it hurts that she won't even acknowledge the fact that she hurt me deeply in terrorizing me with her opinion.
My question is how can I maintain the respect and love for this person when it _feels_ to me that she still (!) doesn't accept my personality?
I'm not interested in therapy or medication (seriously, what is it with you guys in the US?). Also, discussing it with her won't help, learned that today again.
Best answer: If you don't want therapy or medication and you can't discuss it with her, then you're just going to have to let it go.
There are ways to teach yourself to release yourself from an obligation to make sense of another person's mistreatment. It's a long path. Other than taking on this challenge, your only real choice is to mitigate the continued pain by cutting off contact, and it doesn't sound like that's what you're wanting to do.
Books that have been helpful to me include When Things Fall Apart and writings by Susan Forward. Particularly, it looks like Dr. Forward's Toxic Parents would be helpful to you.
posted by mibo at 1:10 PM on March 20, 2012 [9 favorites]
There are ways to teach yourself to release yourself from an obligation to make sense of another person's mistreatment. It's a long path. Other than taking on this challenge, your only real choice is to mitigate the continued pain by cutting off contact, and it doesn't sound like that's what you're wanting to do.
Books that have been helpful to me include When Things Fall Apart and writings by Susan Forward. Particularly, it looks like Dr. Forward's Toxic Parents would be helpful to you.
posted by mibo at 1:10 PM on March 20, 2012 [9 favorites]
If you were "totally over it", you would be able to accept that she thinks she is right but that she is not, and just live with that. That's what we do when you're over it -- you let it go and don't worry about who was right or who was wrong. Parents, like everyone else make tons of huge mistakes trying to do right, and, especially in instances when they were, not trying to hurt you but thought they were helping, you either have to suck it up and see them as flawed individual or keep treating them like they should somehow know better just because they gave birth. That's a huge part of growing up.
I'd consider why this is still bothering you so much. You think she's wrong. In fact, you're absolutely sure she's wrong. Why are you still fighting this fight then?
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:15 PM on March 20, 2012 [6 favorites]
I'd consider why this is still bothering you so much. You think she's wrong. In fact, you're absolutely sure she's wrong. Why are you still fighting this fight then?
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:15 PM on March 20, 2012 [6 favorites]
In some ways, parents have a tough time realizing that they hurt their kids emotionally. There's no "parenting 101", not really; you get dumped in head-first and you do the best you can. Sometimes, you need to tell yourself that you're doing the best thing you can for your kid, that you're trying to set them up in life, give them good life skills, all that jazz. Otherwise, you can be crippled with self-doubt - am I doing the right thing? etc.
It's likely that your mum can't confront this idea that she hurt you, because it would bring this whole "doing right by you" narrative crashing down around her ears. In essence, you're calling her parenting skills into question, and if she's a bit insecure, she might react defensively rather than with humility.
I'm not saying it's right, but anytime I've raised similar issues with my Mom, I've had a similar cognitive shut-down on her part. It's best just to let it go.
posted by LN at 1:17 PM on March 20, 2012 [4 favorites]
It's likely that your mum can't confront this idea that she hurt you, because it would bring this whole "doing right by you" narrative crashing down around her ears. In essence, you're calling her parenting skills into question, and if she's a bit insecure, she might react defensively rather than with humility.
I'm not saying it's right, but anytime I've raised similar issues with my Mom, I've had a similar cognitive shut-down on her part. It's best just to let it go.
posted by LN at 1:17 PM on March 20, 2012 [4 favorites]
Your mother is still (pretty much) the same person who did those things, she thinks those things were right and for your benefit. Why should a good person like herself who worked very hard to make her frustrating daughter a happier, better person "accept" that she hurt her daughter?
That's where she is. Accept it. Odds are very much against her changing.
You might also want to "accept" that you hurt her by not living up to your potential or being rebellious or whatever the hell she imagines were your reasons for acting introverted.
Try to avoid the topic for the rest of your life. That's the only hope.
In my experience, now that I am entirely an adult and actually married and my mother has grandchildren (not from me!) to ride, there's a 20/80 chance she will laugh at a joke about my childhood. That's an 80-percent chance she'll go terminator, with a 20-percent for a polite chuckle and possible payback later. Mentioning this to show that, yes, its hard to drop it. We just have to try.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 1:21 PM on March 20, 2012
That's where she is. Accept it. Odds are very much against her changing.
You might also want to "accept" that you hurt her by not living up to your potential or being rebellious or whatever the hell she imagines were your reasons for acting introverted.
Try to avoid the topic for the rest of your life. That's the only hope.
In my experience, now that I am entirely an adult and actually married and my mother has grandchildren (not from me!) to ride, there's a 20/80 chance she will laugh at a joke about my childhood. That's an 80-percent chance she'll go terminator, with a 20-percent for a polite chuckle and possible payback later. Mentioning this to show that, yes, its hard to drop it. We just have to try.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 1:21 PM on March 20, 2012
If you want her to acknowledge that she hurt you back then, perhaps it would help if you could acknowledge that you probably hurt her back then, as well. You misunderstood each other, perhaps. That is often the way with parents and children. A willingness to see our own part in difficulties goes a long way toward truly letting go of the conflict and achieving peace. Give it time. Good luck.
posted by Anitanola at 1:21 PM on March 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Anitanola at 1:21 PM on March 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
Is she continuing to try to force her opinion of introversion on you in overt or covert ways? You said that she stopped the campaign when you left for college but you feel like she still doesn't accept you personally. Or is your feeling of lack of acceptance due to her failure to acknowledge that her past actions hurt you?
If she has well and truly stopped, telling her that you felt hurt by her behavior back in the day is just about all you can do. You can't change the way she feels about it. At best you can accept that she has her opinion and you have yours. Do you accept yourself the way you are? If so, then her opinion won't count for much at all.
If she hasn't stopped, change the subject/leave the room when she brings up your social life. There was a great thread on the green recently about dealing with a family member who wouldn't leave someone else's weight alone. Different issue but similar tactics would be appropriate.
posted by Currer Belfry at 1:25 PM on March 20, 2012
If she has well and truly stopped, telling her that you felt hurt by her behavior back in the day is just about all you can do. You can't change the way she feels about it. At best you can accept that she has her opinion and you have yours. Do you accept yourself the way you are? If so, then her opinion won't count for much at all.
If she hasn't stopped, change the subject/leave the room when she brings up your social life. There was a great thread on the green recently about dealing with a family member who wouldn't leave someone else's weight alone. Different issue but similar tactics would be appropriate.
posted by Currer Belfry at 1:25 PM on March 20, 2012
Best answer: Wow, I can completely relate to this. In my experience, the only thing that helps is moving forward and creating more of the life you want to live, seperate and outside of your relationship with your mother. You have to find your happiness, without it being connected to this narrative of past pain.
Although the issue in contention was different, my dad was similarly singleminded in hounding me during my teens, and it caused me a lot of pain. Unfortunately, he has since refused to admit he did anything wrong. I find that infuriating. Somehow, deep inside there is some kind of desire for him to validate my feelings, and it's unhealthy. I know that when it comes down to it, nobody wants to hear about this issue; it comes off as extremely immature to still be complaining about my parents as an adult.
It's really only in my lowest moments that I care about this anymore, and when I can't stop thinking about that painful period, it's really only a signal that I need to work on something in my current life.
Listen, though: I completely relate to the pain you are feeling. It's not fair to be mistreated for illogical reasons while you are in the vulnerable position of being a teenager, and then to be pushed into the world only to nurse this wound without the dignity of your parent even admitting they may have been wrong. It's a pain that hurts all the more because as adults, we feel that we don't even have the right to be bothered by it; it's in long-gone childhood at this point, right?
So cut yourself some slack, but keep moving forward. Don't hang your hopes on your mother validating you, apologizing to you, or even admitting to what you're saying, because I promise you she never will.
posted by malapropist at 1:25 PM on March 20, 2012 [8 favorites]
Although the issue in contention was different, my dad was similarly singleminded in hounding me during my teens, and it caused me a lot of pain. Unfortunately, he has since refused to admit he did anything wrong. I find that infuriating. Somehow, deep inside there is some kind of desire for him to validate my feelings, and it's unhealthy. I know that when it comes down to it, nobody wants to hear about this issue; it comes off as extremely immature to still be complaining about my parents as an adult.
It's really only in my lowest moments that I care about this anymore, and when I can't stop thinking about that painful period, it's really only a signal that I need to work on something in my current life.
Listen, though: I completely relate to the pain you are feeling. It's not fair to be mistreated for illogical reasons while you are in the vulnerable position of being a teenager, and then to be pushed into the world only to nurse this wound without the dignity of your parent even admitting they may have been wrong. It's a pain that hurts all the more because as adults, we feel that we don't even have the right to be bothered by it; it's in long-gone childhood at this point, right?
So cut yourself some slack, but keep moving forward. Don't hang your hopes on your mother validating you, apologizing to you, or even admitting to what you're saying, because I promise you she never will.
posted by malapropist at 1:25 PM on March 20, 2012 [8 favorites]
Please understand: she will not change, you will not change. The best way to address this would be to frame it as a choice, not a personality issue (many extroverts genuinely don't understand what it's like to be an introvert). Next time she brings it up, say "thanks for the input Mum, but I've decided I want to do X instead of Y. I hope you'll respect my decision." If she still won't let it rest, gently remind her that you're a grown up now and she no longer has authority over what you do.
posted by fix at 1:25 PM on March 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by fix at 1:25 PM on March 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
I had a difficult relationship with my mother when I was a teenager. As an adult she did apologize for messing up and forcing me into situations that were very against my nature. She's also mentioned doing things differently, if she could. But since time machines don't exist, she won't have a "do-over."
Even though she's apologized, it didn't change the circumstance or the situations that I've had to deal with. I cannot say whether it matters or not that she acknowledged wrong-doing.
What I'm trying to say that even if your mom acknowledges her wrong-doing, doesn't mean that you'll be all fine and dandy with everything and that it'll change your relationship.
I made a similar here about letting go of past abuse. Here is the comment:
I had some difficulty with my parents (mostly my mom) while growing up. A lot of injustices, emotional and mental abuse . . .
I got through it, but as an adult faced a lot of resentment and anger mainly because she didn't see the affect of her abuse on my life.
I "confronted" her (confronted is too strong a word) about why I felt so angry and resentful. And know what? She apologized. And it didn't change anything. Her heartfelt apology, while sincere and genuine, didn't take my hurt away. Because really, does she really know, does she really comprehend my hurt? Of course not. But at the same time I knew she was sorry.
So, from then on I had to really work on myself not to get trapped in the circular thinking that would ensnare me. I just stopped thinking about all these injustices (easier said than done - but I made a concerted effort not to fall into thinking about it all).
And then I started practicing some genuine forgiveness. Again, easier said than done. My mom was no longer the way she was when raising me. And so how could I hold her to that standard anymore? And how could I carry around that anger and resentment when I was no longer being subjected to her past behavior? And how could I lash out at her when I knew she was now doing the best she could? I would be devastated if someone lashed out at me when I was doing the best I could with the abilities that I have. And I realized that's what she was doing. She's doing the best she can now. And perhaps she didn't know any better in the past, maybe she had so much stress and problems herself that she just couldn't handle things very well. I don't excuse her behavior, but I don't hold it over her head either.
It's all taken time and it's taken a lot of effort on my part to hold my tongue and not bring these same things up over and over again. I could cry and lament over the consequences of her behavior on my life, but that won't get us anywhere and would only make us both feel really bad. What's done is done. I don't want to relive it again and again.
Like I said it took time and a concerted effort. But now we have a really strong relationship and are best friends. I realized that she wasn't perfect, and had some very real struggles and shortcomings that were not her fault and I realize that she was doing the best she could even though much of the time her best really sucked.
posted by Sassyfras at 1:27 PM on March 20, 2012 [5 favorites]
Even though she's apologized, it didn't change the circumstance or the situations that I've had to deal with. I cannot say whether it matters or not that she acknowledged wrong-doing.
What I'm trying to say that even if your mom acknowledges her wrong-doing, doesn't mean that you'll be all fine and dandy with everything and that it'll change your relationship.
I made a similar here about letting go of past abuse. Here is the comment:
I had some difficulty with my parents (mostly my mom) while growing up. A lot of injustices, emotional and mental abuse . . .
I got through it, but as an adult faced a lot of resentment and anger mainly because she didn't see the affect of her abuse on my life.
I "confronted" her (confronted is too strong a word) about why I felt so angry and resentful. And know what? She apologized. And it didn't change anything. Her heartfelt apology, while sincere and genuine, didn't take my hurt away. Because really, does she really know, does she really comprehend my hurt? Of course not. But at the same time I knew she was sorry.
So, from then on I had to really work on myself not to get trapped in the circular thinking that would ensnare me. I just stopped thinking about all these injustices (easier said than done - but I made a concerted effort not to fall into thinking about it all).
And then I started practicing some genuine forgiveness. Again, easier said than done. My mom was no longer the way she was when raising me. And so how could I hold her to that standard anymore? And how could I carry around that anger and resentment when I was no longer being subjected to her past behavior? And how could I lash out at her when I knew she was now doing the best she could? I would be devastated if someone lashed out at me when I was doing the best I could with the abilities that I have. And I realized that's what she was doing. She's doing the best she can now. And perhaps she didn't know any better in the past, maybe she had so much stress and problems herself that she just couldn't handle things very well. I don't excuse her behavior, but I don't hold it over her head either.
It's all taken time and it's taken a lot of effort on my part to hold my tongue and not bring these same things up over and over again. I could cry and lament over the consequences of her behavior on my life, but that won't get us anywhere and would only make us both feel really bad. What's done is done. I don't want to relive it again and again.
Like I said it took time and a concerted effort. But now we have a really strong relationship and are best friends. I realized that she wasn't perfect, and had some very real struggles and shortcomings that were not her fault and I realize that she was doing the best she could even though much of the time her best really sucked.
posted by Sassyfras at 1:27 PM on March 20, 2012 [5 favorites]
"None of these questions were asked out of interest in me as a person."When I read this, I thought to myself, "what might have been her other motives for asking these questions?" I can only come up with 1. she was genuinely interested/entertained by the social circle of people a couple of decades younger than herself or 2. she felt that having an introverted child reflected poorly on her parenting skills. Or 3, maybe she really was asking out of interest in you as a person, but it didn't feel like it to you at the time (which is completely valid)
If 1 is true, it seems like she has a "living your life through your child" issue. Which I'm sure many a book has been written about. But basically she was acting immaturely. The issue has nothing to do with you, and everything to do with her and how she relates to those around her.
I can see 2 possibly being true, because I also grew up around people who were uncomfortable with introversion. If you think about it, being a "geek" now is kind of cool; it definitely wasn't that way 20 years ago. If she was seeking the approval of her peers, again, that issue has nothing to do with you.
My hunch is that 3 is closer to the truth. The "every book says so" comment makes me think she believed that she could parent you into being the type of person she thought you should be. Extroverts have always been the ones who are perceived as most likely to succeed academically, in the workplace and socially, and maybe she thought forcing you to go to parties and events would benefit you long term. Though I'm sure mefi generally agrees that introversion/extroversion qualities are both innate and natural, but I'm not sure this was/is always the case.
I am just throwing in my quick thoughts re: her motive because you mentioned that it was a source of your anguish, but as stated above: "release yourself from an obligation to make sense of another person's mistreatment". I would consider what you want to do if she is unable to ever acknowledge your pain, and make plans based on that. She may apologize later, but apologies don't magically erase the past. Focus on your healing, not her apology.
posted by halseyaa at 1:28 PM on March 20, 2012
my mother not only refuses to admit/accept how she hurt me (calling me a slut, reading my diary to my aunts, hitting me, supporting my abuser), but if we touch on a subject that she feels the tiniest bit guilty about, the next 10 minutes are me assuring her that she's a "great mother" and that i was "lucky to be her daughter."
the only fix i have found are stronger boundaries and less interaction between us.
posted by nadawi at 1:37 PM on March 20, 2012 [4 favorites]
the only fix i have found are stronger boundaries and less interaction between us.
posted by nadawi at 1:37 PM on March 20, 2012 [4 favorites]
Best answer: If your mother were to suddenly realize how wrong she was, and to suddenly appreciate the depth of pain that she caused you, how do you think that would make her feel? She would be mortified, heartbroken. For a parent to know that they have hurt their own child is one of the saddest, most excruciating things I can imagine. Would it really make you feel any better to know that she was hurting that badly? Spare her that if you can. It sounds like she acted out of love. She wanted the best for you. She made mistakes, and she was wrong about some things, in ways that caused you pain. Guess what? You're going to be wrong about some things in your life, too, and you're going to make some mistakes that will hurt people that you care about. We all do. If you can find a way to look behind the mistakes, and see the love that motivated her actions, you'll have a better chance to heal and forgive.
posted by Corvid at 1:42 PM on March 20, 2012 [27 favorites]
posted by Corvid at 1:42 PM on March 20, 2012 [27 favorites]
But it hurts that she won't even acknowledge the fact that she hurt me deeply in terrorizing me with her opinion.
The thing to move toward in your understanding is this: you don't have (and will not have) the mother you want. You do have the mother you have.
This is who she is. And that is absolutely painful. At the same time, there is no way to undo this -- to make her be someone she's not. You cannot make her bridge that gap between what you want and what she is -- and trying to do so sets yourself up for further pain and frustration.
Though it seems paradoxical, accepting her exactly as she is (which, incidentally, is NOT the same as condoning or approving of her behavior) may allow you to find a more neutral and even positive space to interact with her, because it will allow you to readjust your expectations of her that are more in keeping with the reality of who she is, rather than the desire for her to be who you want.
For example, if you can eventually stop expecting that she will ever acknowledge that she hurt you... it will actually hurt less when she (once again) doesn't acknowledge that she hurt you. When she acts in a particularly difficult way, you can simply observe it as "there's mom doing that thing again" rather than feeling it as "here's mom stabbing me in the back again." Eventually, this may all move you toward a place of compassion and empathy for your mom -- which you can feel for her, even if she may not be able to feel the same emotions for you in the same way.
If you have any interest in Buddhism, you may find some helpful insights and techniques in this audiobook. Good luck.
posted by scody at 1:46 PM on March 20, 2012 [4 favorites]
The thing to move toward in your understanding is this: you don't have (and will not have) the mother you want. You do have the mother you have.
This is who she is. And that is absolutely painful. At the same time, there is no way to undo this -- to make her be someone she's not. You cannot make her bridge that gap between what you want and what she is -- and trying to do so sets yourself up for further pain and frustration.
Though it seems paradoxical, accepting her exactly as she is (which, incidentally, is NOT the same as condoning or approving of her behavior) may allow you to find a more neutral and even positive space to interact with her, because it will allow you to readjust your expectations of her that are more in keeping with the reality of who she is, rather than the desire for her to be who you want.
For example, if you can eventually stop expecting that she will ever acknowledge that she hurt you... it will actually hurt less when she (once again) doesn't acknowledge that she hurt you. When she acts in a particularly difficult way, you can simply observe it as "there's mom doing that thing again" rather than feeling it as "here's mom stabbing me in the back again." Eventually, this may all move you toward a place of compassion and empathy for your mom -- which you can feel for her, even if she may not be able to feel the same emotions for you in the same way.
If you have any interest in Buddhism, you may find some helpful insights and techniques in this audiobook. Good luck.
posted by scody at 1:46 PM on March 20, 2012 [4 favorites]
A book called "Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts" might explain why your mother seems unable to accept that her behavior hurt you. Unfortunately, I don't think it would help your mother come around to your point of view, but maybe it will help you find a way to deal with the situation without a loss of respect and love.
posted by amarynth at 1:47 PM on March 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by amarynth at 1:47 PM on March 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
So, I understand this very well. I was that kid who had really great social skills, though at the time I didn't know it, and an extreme desire for plenty of space, time and activities to myself. I still do.
And for years I felt nothing but crippling shame and anxiety that I was the busted one, while the rest of society, which would let me know fairly often, was full of people who just couldn't get enough of each other. Why would I ever want a day entirely to myself? What sort of horrible misanthrope was I? Even though I liked people, it still wasn't natural or healthy.
Except it was. And it is.
I've met few extroverts (though we're not all one or the other) who can actually understand the needs of a person who leans pretty heavily toward introversion. The best typical response is kind of bemused toleration and the worst is what your mother did to you. Similar people surely fucked me up for years until I could escape them and realize I wasn't terrible for enjoying reading a book all day after a family event.
I don't think she'll ever admit it, and I'm really sorry, but the point of my rambling above is to say it's not because you did anything wrong. SHE DID NOT UNDERSTAND. And seriously, she probably never will. That's what you have to make peace with.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 1:54 PM on March 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
And for years I felt nothing but crippling shame and anxiety that I was the busted one, while the rest of society, which would let me know fairly often, was full of people who just couldn't get enough of each other. Why would I ever want a day entirely to myself? What sort of horrible misanthrope was I? Even though I liked people, it still wasn't natural or healthy.
Except it was. And it is.
I've met few extroverts (though we're not all one or the other) who can actually understand the needs of a person who leans pretty heavily toward introversion. The best typical response is kind of bemused toleration and the worst is what your mother did to you. Similar people surely fucked me up for years until I could escape them and realize I wasn't terrible for enjoying reading a book all day after a family event.
I don't think she'll ever admit it, and I'm really sorry, but the point of my rambling above is to say it's not because you did anything wrong. SHE DID NOT UNDERSTAND. And seriously, she probably never will. That's what you have to make peace with.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 1:54 PM on March 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Just move on. It's all in the past. Focus on how your mom interacts with you now.
posted by KokuRyu at 1:54 PM on March 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by KokuRyu at 1:54 PM on March 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
My question is how can I maintain the respect and love for this person when it _feels_ to me that she still (!) doesn't accept my personality?
First, parents don't know what they're doing when they raise kids. How would they?
Next, I totally understand how your mother's behavior was hurtful to you, but, honestly, it's really hard for someone to understand that. "She just wanted you to socialize more" sounds kind of harmless. Yes, you were hurt by it, but someone can easily justify to themselves why this was harmless and why you are taking it to hard.
People, particularly parents, make the best decisions they could with the tools they had at hand. And sometimes, that turned out not to be good enough, or even to be totally wrong. But she was reading off an internal script for herself that said, "This is how you be a good parent and do what's best for my daughter." Everyone tells you not to hit or physically abuse or scream at your children. No one tells you, "don't keep encouraging a child to do something that is not a good fit with his or her personality and temperament."
"Why can't this person acknowledge that he/she is wrong?" is an AskMe that doesn't get a good answer, and that's pretty much what you're asking. Heck, it is considered an acceptable thing here to advise people that they should not tell other people they are wrong. That may well apply in this case.
posted by deanc at 1:56 PM on March 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
First, parents don't know what they're doing when they raise kids. How would they?
Next, I totally understand how your mother's behavior was hurtful to you, but, honestly, it's really hard for someone to understand that. "She just wanted you to socialize more" sounds kind of harmless. Yes, you were hurt by it, but someone can easily justify to themselves why this was harmless and why you are taking it to hard.
People, particularly parents, make the best decisions they could with the tools they had at hand. And sometimes, that turned out not to be good enough, or even to be totally wrong. But she was reading off an internal script for herself that said, "This is how you be a good parent and do what's best for my daughter." Everyone tells you not to hit or physically abuse or scream at your children. No one tells you, "don't keep encouraging a child to do something that is not a good fit with his or her personality and temperament."
"Why can't this person acknowledge that he/she is wrong?" is an AskMe that doesn't get a good answer, and that's pretty much what you're asking. Heck, it is considered an acceptable thing here to advise people that they should not tell other people they are wrong. That may well apply in this case.
posted by deanc at 1:56 PM on March 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
I honestly think about the Breakfast Club in these cases. Where Ally Sheedy says "my home life is seriously unsatisfactory" and the other guy (Emilio Estevez?) says "if it wasn't, then none of us would ever move out".
For the most part, most of us can write lists of things our parents did that hurt us or were unsatisfactory and diminished us as people etc when we were (particularly sensitive) teenagers. And that is why so many of us in the US DO go to therapy, to talk about it. And to try to get over it.
I spoke to my parents about things in the past and basically they said 'we did the best we could at the time' and I think that's true.
Right and it looks like someone above is saying that you are saying that she didn't fully grasp the nuances of your personality as a person and not as a child, and maybe you are doing the same thing- seeing her through the lens as an imperfect mother, rather than a woman with her own concerns and views on the world.
Good luck. It gets better and really, this sort of thing is why therapy is invented. You want to talk about it and get over it but not with her.
posted by bquarters at 1:56 PM on March 20, 2012
For the most part, most of us can write lists of things our parents did that hurt us or were unsatisfactory and diminished us as people etc when we were (particularly sensitive) teenagers. And that is why so many of us in the US DO go to therapy, to talk about it. And to try to get over it.
I spoke to my parents about things in the past and basically they said 'we did the best we could at the time' and I think that's true.
Right and it looks like someone above is saying that you are saying that she didn't fully grasp the nuances of your personality as a person and not as a child, and maybe you are doing the same thing- seeing her through the lens as an imperfect mother, rather than a woman with her own concerns and views on the world.
Good luck. It gets better and really, this sort of thing is why therapy is invented. You want to talk about it and get over it but not with her.
posted by bquarters at 1:56 PM on March 20, 2012
The thing to move toward in your understanding is this: you don't have (and will not have) the mother you want. You do have the mother you have.
This a million times. What you want is for things to have been different. They can't. She probably had several reasons for what she did, but it doesn't matter because none of those reasons are ever going to justify her behavior to you.
I wish so many things had been different about my mother. I wish she hadn't been verbally abusive, prone to frightening and unpredictable mood swings; deeply unhappy in our family situation. But those were all things I had no control over. I still have no way to influence those things, nor is it my responsibility to do so. She did the best she could with the flaws she had, but I still have very good reasons for keeping her at a distance.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:57 PM on March 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
This a million times. What you want is for things to have been different. They can't. She probably had several reasons for what she did, but it doesn't matter because none of those reasons are ever going to justify her behavior to you.
I wish so many things had been different about my mother. I wish she hadn't been verbally abusive, prone to frightening and unpredictable mood swings; deeply unhappy in our family situation. But those were all things I had no control over. I still have no way to influence those things, nor is it my responsibility to do so. She did the best she could with the flaws she had, but I still have very good reasons for keeping her at a distance.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:57 PM on March 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm thirty-eight years old and my mother *just* over the Christmas holidays realized she'd made some mistakes, and only barely.
But, thanks to time (and yeah, a few stints in therapy, because what's up with us guys in the US is that some of us are blissfully throwing off the stigma of such things and using the tools we've got to figure out how to get by), I'm much more at peace with her role in my life.
posted by padraigin at 2:01 PM on March 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
But, thanks to time (and yeah, a few stints in therapy, because what's up with us guys in the US is that some of us are blissfully throwing off the stigma of such things and using the tools we've got to figure out how to get by), I'm much more at peace with her role in my life.
posted by padraigin at 2:01 PM on March 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
I think Corvid has this; you can't change the past anyhow.
The only thing you can do is keep this perspective in mind when you interact with teenagers-- your own or relatives or friends. Of course, all this means is you won't make *the same* mistake-- instead you'll make a whole host of other mistakes.
I do think my own over-restrictive mother made some mistakes, which hurt me; last time I was home she even mentioned questioning some of her decisions and being terribly worried that she was doing the wrong thing. She thinks my sister and I turned out well, so she thinks she did the right thing. What good does it do to tell her otherwise? Although I do wish she wouldn't ask for approval regarding choices she made it the past that took me a decade to get over.
(Note: I am somewhat concerned that this issue will come up again if I ever have children; you might have the same issue, but that is a future problem, not a current problem.)
posted by nat at 2:02 PM on March 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
The only thing you can do is keep this perspective in mind when you interact with teenagers-- your own or relatives or friends. Of course, all this means is you won't make *the same* mistake-- instead you'll make a whole host of other mistakes.
I do think my own over-restrictive mother made some mistakes, which hurt me; last time I was home she even mentioned questioning some of her decisions and being terribly worried that she was doing the wrong thing. She thinks my sister and I turned out well, so she thinks she did the right thing. What good does it do to tell her otherwise? Although I do wish she wouldn't ask for approval regarding choices she made it the past that took me a decade to get over.
(Note: I am somewhat concerned that this issue will come up again if I ever have children; you might have the same issue, but that is a future problem, not a current problem.)
posted by nat at 2:02 PM on March 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Alice Miller's book The Drama of the Gifted Child may be resonant for you.
And as for myself, I do therapy and medication so that I won't kill myself. Thanks for asking.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:03 PM on March 20, 2012 [7 favorites]
And as for myself, I do therapy and medication so that I won't kill myself. Thanks for asking.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:03 PM on March 20, 2012 [7 favorites]
Just realized, seeing my comment in my Recent Activity, that I left out one thing from my (harsher than I meant to sound) diatribe -- I answered your question because I had the exact same thing happen to me as a kid -- parents being much more worried about my social life than I was -- and it screwed me up something awful for a while. So when I say that the best way to deal with it is to forgive and move on, I'm speaking from a bit of experience.
Good luck!
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:10 PM on March 20, 2012
I did find therapy helpful for this. Sorry, but it's a good recommendation. What finally made my Child of Divorce issues click for me was this one conversation I had with him where I tried to talk to him about my feelings and I could actually see his eyes glaze over. I finally realized that it really wasn't about me, he just isn't built that way. It's not that he could give it to other people but not to me. It's not that he doesn't care or doesn't love in his own way. He just is built the way he is built and nothing I could say or do would change him. I think that for many years I had carried around the secret belief that he was capable of more and somehow not choosing to give it to me. Realizing that he wasn't was very freeing. He did the best he could within his limitations as a person, just as your parents probably did. The fact that their limitations meant they fell short for you isn't actually about you; it's about your mother.
posted by JoannaC at 2:14 PM on March 20, 2012
posted by JoannaC at 2:14 PM on March 20, 2012
My mom was the kind of person who, when startled with information on something of which she did not approve, was a very thoughtlessly cruel person. Vicious, even. Over the years, she said many things to me that, had anyone else said them, I would have ended our relationship immediately and possibly slapped them.
Til the day she died, she denied having said a single one of those (very well remembered by me, because I am a champion grudge-holder) things to me, swearing up and down and left and right that I'd misinterpreted her or was making it up for attention or had been high at the time or a thousand other excuses. Eventually I realized that she would never admit having done so, and I mostly hope she just legitimately blanked out the memory of doing so, due to deep regrets in retrospect. (or, idk, because she just didn't want to admit it and have to feel bad, whatevs.) I didn't stop loving her, because at the end of the day, the good things she'd always done for me outweighed the bad, but I don't think I ever really respected her again.
tl;dr you don't have to love and respect someone who has hurt you consistently, even if they are a family member. It helps if you can let go of resentment not for them, but for yourself and your own personal growth. It sucks beyond belief when someone you love hurts you and refuses to even accept the possibility that they've done so, but at the end of the day, you need to focus on yourself and your own self-worth and self-respect and not drag a confession or an apology out of someone who can't even acknowledge a wrongdoing.
posted by elizardbits at 2:20 PM on March 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
Til the day she died, she denied having said a single one of those (very well remembered by me, because I am a champion grudge-holder) things to me, swearing up and down and left and right that I'd misinterpreted her or was making it up for attention or had been high at the time or a thousand other excuses. Eventually I realized that she would never admit having done so, and I mostly hope she just legitimately blanked out the memory of doing so, due to deep regrets in retrospect. (or, idk, because she just didn't want to admit it and have to feel bad, whatevs.) I didn't stop loving her, because at the end of the day, the good things she'd always done for me outweighed the bad, but I don't think I ever really respected her again.
tl;dr you don't have to love and respect someone who has hurt you consistently, even if they are a family member. It helps if you can let go of resentment not for them, but for yourself and your own personal growth. It sucks beyond belief when someone you love hurts you and refuses to even accept the possibility that they've done so, but at the end of the day, you need to focus on yourself and your own self-worth and self-respect and not drag a confession or an apology out of someone who can't even acknowledge a wrongdoing.
posted by elizardbits at 2:20 PM on March 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
Parents are usually trying to do the right thing by their kids. Your mom did not wake up each day and think, "I think I'll pressure arhammer to socialize more because I dislike her and want to make her miserable."
Terrorizing is a strong word. It sounds like your mom wanted you to be happy. She may have gone about it in the wrong way but she still wanted the best for you. If you are really "over it" you have to cut her some slack. As parents, we don't have all the answers and it is impossible to do the right thing all of the time.
Instead of focusing on the bad, why not focus on what she did well? How she loved you and still does. The good times. I think it does no good whatsoever to preoccupy yourself with the fact that she will not acknowledge the pain she caused you. If you can't let it go, there is a chance you will become angrier. This can be destructive and cause big problems in your life and relationship with your mom.
There is a suggestion to read Toxic Parents. I have read Toxic Parents and I wouldn't recommend it in your case. If this is the biggest beef with your mom, your mom is absolutely not toxic. We all have pain and I am not trying to discount your pain but if this is your biggest complaint, you are one fortunate woman. In the first part of Toxic Parents it explains the different varieties of the toxic parent: the emotional abuser, the physical abuser, the controller, the sexual abuser, etc. In the second half the describes what you can do about your relationship with a toxic parent and recommends writing a letter describing how the toxic parent hurt you. You have already talked to your mom about your hurts. She refuses to acknowledge that she hurt you. She is probably very resistant because in her mind she was behaving in love. In my case the book Toxic Parents only solidified, in my mind, that my parents were "toxic". It enabled to keep blaming them and hating them. My parents are not toxic. They had their problems, and didn't always do the right thing, but in no way did they intend to hurt me. I hope you can accept that your mom was not trying to intentionally hurt you. You aired your grievances. She didn't respond in a way that satisfied you. You can't do anything about that.
I think it would be helpful to try understand why you are stuck on this and cannot let it go. Are you hungry for love or approval? Do you feel like she didn't love you at this time? Do you think she didn't accept you and therefore you cannot accept yourself? You have all of the tools to give yourself what you need. Your mom can't do it for you now. Your mom does not need your praise on her parenting skills, and she does not need you to tell her how she did it wrong. I have learned the hard way that it doesn't do any good as an adult to have your parents fill your cup. Our childhood pain is something that we must deal with on our own -- or with the help of a therapist. You deal with it (and heal) by accepting what is and accepting people for who they are, loving yourself, loving others, accepting what is, having fun (every day!), nurturing relationships, creating, being present, and by displaying gratitude.
Notice the good and ignore the bad. Forgive and realize that your mother had your best interests at heart. You'll be much happier and will be able to love your mom, and most importantly yourself.
posted by Fairchild at 2:20 PM on March 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
Terrorizing is a strong word. It sounds like your mom wanted you to be happy. She may have gone about it in the wrong way but she still wanted the best for you. If you are really "over it" you have to cut her some slack. As parents, we don't have all the answers and it is impossible to do the right thing all of the time.
Instead of focusing on the bad, why not focus on what she did well? How she loved you and still does. The good times. I think it does no good whatsoever to preoccupy yourself with the fact that she will not acknowledge the pain she caused you. If you can't let it go, there is a chance you will become angrier. This can be destructive and cause big problems in your life and relationship with your mom.
There is a suggestion to read Toxic Parents. I have read Toxic Parents and I wouldn't recommend it in your case. If this is the biggest beef with your mom, your mom is absolutely not toxic. We all have pain and I am not trying to discount your pain but if this is your biggest complaint, you are one fortunate woman. In the first part of Toxic Parents it explains the different varieties of the toxic parent: the emotional abuser, the physical abuser, the controller, the sexual abuser, etc. In the second half the describes what you can do about your relationship with a toxic parent and recommends writing a letter describing how the toxic parent hurt you. You have already talked to your mom about your hurts. She refuses to acknowledge that she hurt you. She is probably very resistant because in her mind she was behaving in love. In my case the book Toxic Parents only solidified, in my mind, that my parents were "toxic". It enabled to keep blaming them and hating them. My parents are not toxic. They had their problems, and didn't always do the right thing, but in no way did they intend to hurt me. I hope you can accept that your mom was not trying to intentionally hurt you. You aired your grievances. She didn't respond in a way that satisfied you. You can't do anything about that.
I think it would be helpful to try understand why you are stuck on this and cannot let it go. Are you hungry for love or approval? Do you feel like she didn't love you at this time? Do you think she didn't accept you and therefore you cannot accept yourself? You have all of the tools to give yourself what you need. Your mom can't do it for you now. Your mom does not need your praise on her parenting skills, and she does not need you to tell her how she did it wrong. I have learned the hard way that it doesn't do any good as an adult to have your parents fill your cup. Our childhood pain is something that we must deal with on our own -- or with the help of a therapist. You deal with it (and heal) by accepting what is and accepting people for who they are, loving yourself, loving others, accepting what is, having fun (every day!), nurturing relationships, creating, being present, and by displaying gratitude.
Notice the good and ignore the bad. Forgive and realize that your mother had your best interests at heart. You'll be much happier and will be able to love your mom, and most importantly yourself.
posted by Fairchild at 2:20 PM on March 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
I have similar issues with my mother and I have not yet seen a therapist but I plan to. I have tried to accept things for what they are, and it seems that you are trying to do that as well but it is difficult. This is the type of thing, I think, that therapy was made for.
Otherwise you are simply going to have to let it go - which is easier said than done. Especially if your mother, like mine, is the type who can *never* admit that she did anything wrong. You're not dealing with someone who is behaving rationally and logically, and that is difficult to process when it is someone close to you.
posted by fromageball at 2:21 PM on March 20, 2012
Otherwise you are simply going to have to let it go - which is easier said than done. Especially if your mother, like mine, is the type who can *never* admit that she did anything wrong. You're not dealing with someone who is behaving rationally and logically, and that is difficult to process when it is someone close to you.
posted by fromageball at 2:21 PM on March 20, 2012
One thing you might also have to accept is that she very well may never admit that she did anything to hurt you. In her mind she could have thought she was only helping you.
posted by fromageball at 2:28 PM on March 20, 2012
posted by fromageball at 2:28 PM on March 20, 2012
Apologies for multiple typos. Do not proofread.
In a nutshell: Do not rely on your mom to fix the past. Even if she did apologize, it probably won't make you feel better. Like Sassyfras above, I had a parent apologize and it didn't make me feel better. It actually made me feel immature for not dealing with it in a more constructive way and I feel terrible for hurting them and "listing my grievances". Unfortunately I was holding onto a lot of pain that could have been let go a long time ago but I didn't know how and this is why a therapist is helpful. You can have all of the knowledge and self-awareness in the world but knowledge isn't going to help you get better.
posted by Fairchild at 2:33 PM on March 20, 2012
In a nutshell: Do not rely on your mom to fix the past. Even if she did apologize, it probably won't make you feel better. Like Sassyfras above, I had a parent apologize and it didn't make me feel better. It actually made me feel immature for not dealing with it in a more constructive way and I feel terrible for hurting them and "listing my grievances". Unfortunately I was holding onto a lot of pain that could have been let go a long time ago but I didn't know how and this is why a therapist is helpful. You can have all of the knowledge and self-awareness in the world but knowledge isn't going to help you get better.
posted by Fairchild at 2:33 PM on March 20, 2012
Response by poster: First of all, I am so, so sorry if my comment about therapy and medication offended you. It was meant as a joke, albeit a very stupid one. Compared to Americans, people in Europe seem to have a different take on medication which is often a source of stupid jokes (even high-quality media take on). I by no means wanted do question anyone in therapy or the value she gets out of it.
I am really sorry. Please accept my apologies.
posted by arhammer at 2:39 PM on March 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
I am really sorry. Please accept my apologies.
posted by arhammer at 2:39 PM on March 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Best answer: The reason why this bothers you so much doesn't seem to be that disagreeing about the appropriate level of social interaction is so terrible. It seems to be that it was controlling, that your mother was trying to operate you like a puppet or exoskeleton rather than treating you like her child. That's the only attitude that could explain the combination of her behaving like that and your being so hurt by it. Otherwise, her nagging would just have gone in one ear and out the other, the way it's supposed to with teens.
If she still has this attitude and if it's pervasive in how she relates to you, then I fully understand why this is still a problem. In fact, my guess is that this is important to you because, if you get the right answer, that will be the litmus test for whether she still has this attitude to you or not. That may be why you can't just let this go.
The book "Controlling People" by Patricia Evans is really the only exposition of this kind of thing, and I think you'll find it informative.
BTW, the idea that you should accept that "you hurt her" by being an introvert is completely ridiculous, as well as objectionable. Your being an introvert could only "hurt her" if she were entitled to full control over your actions and temperament, and in case it isn't apparent from what I've already written: she isn't.
posted by tel3path at 2:41 PM on March 20, 2012 [4 favorites]
If she still has this attitude and if it's pervasive in how she relates to you, then I fully understand why this is still a problem. In fact, my guess is that this is important to you because, if you get the right answer, that will be the litmus test for whether she still has this attitude to you or not. That may be why you can't just let this go.
The book "Controlling People" by Patricia Evans is really the only exposition of this kind of thing, and I think you'll find it informative.
BTW, the idea that you should accept that "you hurt her" by being an introvert is completely ridiculous, as well as objectionable. Your being an introvert could only "hurt her" if she were entitled to full control over your actions and temperament, and in case it isn't apparent from what I've already written: she isn't.
posted by tel3path at 2:41 PM on March 20, 2012 [4 favorites]
In time, your mother may come to realise her mistakes, and be very bothered by them. Mine has (I was tormented over something different, but I still think this applies), and now she won't STOP apologising. Over and over again, she keeps dredging up painful memories to apologise for them, and frankly, I wish she'd just stop. It hasn't made me feel any better, it hasn't made me feel less bitter, and even though, for years, I wished she'd just acknowledge the extensive emotional damage she and my father inflicted upon me, now it just feels like further emotional manipulation and violation of the boundaries I've worked very hard to establish with her as an adult.
Just saying, it's possible that getting the apology you want, in the end, may not be as much of a relief or validation as you think right now.
posted by skybluepink at 2:49 PM on March 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Just saying, it's possible that getting the apology you want, in the end, may not be as much of a relief or validation as you think right now.
posted by skybluepink at 2:49 PM on March 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
There is this saying (at least I think it is!) that I (think!) I've heard a lot over the years and its seared into my mind and perfect for this type of thing.
They/he/she "did the best they knew how."
There is a lot of acceptance in that statement, that they were doing the best they could but that it was a different time. That phrase comes to mind almost every time I think of how emotionally starved and isolated my childhood was... My dad was a PTSD WW2 baby raising a rebellious orange county preteen in the 90's. It flat out sucked, but he was doing the best he knew how.
posted by misspony at 3:01 PM on March 20, 2012
They/he/she "did the best they knew how."
There is a lot of acceptance in that statement, that they were doing the best they could but that it was a different time. That phrase comes to mind almost every time I think of how emotionally starved and isolated my childhood was... My dad was a PTSD WW2 baby raising a rebellious orange county preteen in the 90's. It flat out sucked, but he was doing the best he knew how.
posted by misspony at 3:01 PM on March 20, 2012
Best answer: You really can't underestimate the weight of parental guilt. Some people can never accept it, because it is complex. It's not just about not seeing you as a separate person, it has to do with their own sense of self in a variety of ways.
If it ever comes to the point where you two can discuss this as two adults, that is a different story, but your growing up and apart from her are issues she has to deal with on her own, as much as you have to deal with your separating your adult self and who you strive to be from elements of your past.
Few are the people who are able to deal with direct confrontation on an issue that they may not even be able to acknowledge as an issue. While you say you are "over it," you still want her to acknowledge your feelings.
This is a process and there is no simple remedy. If you would like to discuss it further and in depth, you can mail, but the question is really about what you want and why.
I'm not sure you can blankly say she doesn't accept your personality. I think she has her own developmental time table that may not coincide with yours, and it depends on how you deal with that.
posted by provoliminal at 3:02 PM on March 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
If it ever comes to the point where you two can discuss this as two adults, that is a different story, but your growing up and apart from her are issues she has to deal with on her own, as much as you have to deal with your separating your adult self and who you strive to be from elements of your past.
Few are the people who are able to deal with direct confrontation on an issue that they may not even be able to acknowledge as an issue. While you say you are "over it," you still want her to acknowledge your feelings.
This is a process and there is no simple remedy. If you would like to discuss it further and in depth, you can mail, but the question is really about what you want and why.
I'm not sure you can blankly say she doesn't accept your personality. I think she has her own developmental time table that may not coincide with yours, and it depends on how you deal with that.
posted by provoliminal at 3:02 PM on March 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
My grandmother (a narcissist) did a similarish sort of thing to her kids. The kids took two paths: let it go and don't expect anything different from her or seethe in resentment until she, eventually, died. Guess which of her kids are much happier than the others?
Seriously, it sucks, and it's miserable, and she hurt you, and she is not likely to acknowledge it ever -- and even if she does, one day, you will *still* have to let it go after that. You might as well start it now so you can live more freely.
posted by jeather at 3:52 PM on March 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Seriously, it sucks, and it's miserable, and she hurt you, and she is not likely to acknowledge it ever -- and even if she does, one day, you will *still* have to let it go after that. You might as well start it now so you can live more freely.
posted by jeather at 3:52 PM on March 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
We have no idea why your mother wanted you to leave the house on weekend nights, be more social, or only talked to you about your socializing. We just know that you did not and that for you this turned out to be a core personality trait. (I can think of a million reasons - "trying to be a good mother" or "trying to give you the opportunities she did not get" or "trying to connect with her daughter but being a rather short sighted person focused on something her daughter was not the slightest bit interested in but arguing equals talking" or in the case of my parents who loved their introverted child but wanted to have adult time even when their youngest was a teenager "trying to get you out of the house or have you make concrete plans outside the house so they could plan and do adult things.") If you want some insight, maybe ask her about her own teenage years or maybe about the challenges of your teenage years.
But if you do not want to such searching, it does not matter. You are older now and want to change the relationship with your mother. So, change it. Take some of the great advice above. And, start with forgiving her - your flawed and loving mother - because most likely (if this was truly the worst of your childhood and, yes, your experiences were real and hard) there is some moment or series of exchanges that the two of you encountered together you have forgotten or never even noticed that hangs over her head, that makes her feel so guilty and that keeps her up at night. So, when offhand you mention how hurt you were - of course she is going to dismiss it - she is focused on some other pivotal event(s).
And if I were to play devils advocate - I would argue that you are now being just as unaccepting of her personality traits or situation as she was of yours back then. And isn't it annoying when people flaunt a personality trait you have yourself.
posted by mutt.cyberspace at 4:57 PM on March 20, 2012
But if you do not want to such searching, it does not matter. You are older now and want to change the relationship with your mother. So, change it. Take some of the great advice above. And, start with forgiving her - your flawed and loving mother - because most likely (if this was truly the worst of your childhood and, yes, your experiences were real and hard) there is some moment or series of exchanges that the two of you encountered together you have forgotten or never even noticed that hangs over her head, that makes her feel so guilty and that keeps her up at night. So, when offhand you mention how hurt you were - of course she is going to dismiss it - she is focused on some other pivotal event(s).
And if I were to play devils advocate - I would argue that you are now being just as unaccepting of her personality traits or situation as she was of yours back then. And isn't it annoying when people flaunt a personality trait you have yourself.
posted by mutt.cyberspace at 4:57 PM on March 20, 2012
Response by poster: Wow, I am new to MetaFilter and must say I am overwhelmed by the amount of insightful answers. I keep rereading them. Thank you so much for taking your time.
Some followup:
Actually, I'm male. And yes, I do feel somewhat immature bringing this up as an adult and at the same time claiming to be over it.
I wanted to make clear that the issue is not who is right or wrong, not back then, not today. The issue back then was, as tel3path says, that my mother tried to control me (at least that's what I felt), that's why these harmless-seeming questions hurt so much. I never _felt_ accepted for who I am.
Today the issue was that she wouldn't accept hurting me. Now, I am honestly not interested in an apology. I'm not interested in admitting mistakes (be it her or me). It would never occur to me to accuse my mother of anything. Just because I don't care anymore. But to learn that a _fact_ (my very existing pain back then) is being denied hurts from a very different perspective than the original issue from years ago.
For all these years, I thought the thing was agreed-upon (not who hurt whom, just that there was hurt), we all moved on and accept each other. Now after today I can't help but ask myself who this person really is? Has she hidden her not accepting me as a person inside all these years? Or am I asking too many questions?
That was just to clear up the issue.
Now, what I have learned from your answers so far. After I get enough sleep, I will reread every comment and learn more from them.
I don't have to figure out other people's irrational behavior, which is very important advice to distance myself from the topic while still maintaing a healthy relationship. (As a person who asks lot of question, I am sure this advice will be valuable for my whole life).
I should focus on myself and my future, which I will.
We may have misunderstood each other. My mother might have just wanted "the best for me", but not realized that I have a different take on "the best".
I might have misperceived the issue of her controlling me. That's why she might have not understood why I was so "sensitive". Or she might have not realized that she, in fact, did control me or at least gave me the very strong feeling of it.
I shouldn't focus on resolving the issue or waiting for an apology, which I haven't to begin with.
Parenting is very hard, everyone makes mistakes with or without realizing.
I don't have to insist on my pain, which might make things even worse.
Your answers helped me very much. Rethinking this whole thing in my head, I would never come up with these different takes and insights myself.
(And excuse my English, I'm not a native speaker and in need of some sleep right now.)
posted by arhammer at 4:59 PM on March 20, 2012
Some followup:
Actually, I'm male. And yes, I do feel somewhat immature bringing this up as an adult and at the same time claiming to be over it.
I wanted to make clear that the issue is not who is right or wrong, not back then, not today. The issue back then was, as tel3path says, that my mother tried to control me (at least that's what I felt), that's why these harmless-seeming questions hurt so much. I never _felt_ accepted for who I am.
Today the issue was that she wouldn't accept hurting me. Now, I am honestly not interested in an apology. I'm not interested in admitting mistakes (be it her or me). It would never occur to me to accuse my mother of anything. Just because I don't care anymore. But to learn that a _fact_ (my very existing pain back then) is being denied hurts from a very different perspective than the original issue from years ago.
For all these years, I thought the thing was agreed-upon (not who hurt whom, just that there was hurt), we all moved on and accept each other. Now after today I can't help but ask myself who this person really is? Has she hidden her not accepting me as a person inside all these years? Or am I asking too many questions?
That was just to clear up the issue.
Now, what I have learned from your answers so far. After I get enough sleep, I will reread every comment and learn more from them.
I don't have to figure out other people's irrational behavior, which is very important advice to distance myself from the topic while still maintaing a healthy relationship. (As a person who asks lot of question, I am sure this advice will be valuable for my whole life).
I should focus on myself and my future, which I will.
We may have misunderstood each other. My mother might have just wanted "the best for me", but not realized that I have a different take on "the best".
I might have misperceived the issue of her controlling me. That's why she might have not understood why I was so "sensitive". Or she might have not realized that she, in fact, did control me or at least gave me the very strong feeling of it.
I shouldn't focus on resolving the issue or waiting for an apology, which I haven't to begin with.
Parenting is very hard, everyone makes mistakes with or without realizing.
I don't have to insist on my pain, which might make things even worse.
Your answers helped me very much. Rethinking this whole thing in my head, I would never come up with these different takes and insights myself.
(And excuse my English, I'm not a native speaker and in need of some sleep right now.)
posted by arhammer at 4:59 PM on March 20, 2012
1. Have children and wait a few years. Having a family of my own has done so much more than therapy or cutting my parents off ever did to help me just let it all go.
Or:
2. Instead of telling your mom what your experience was like, ask her some questions about what her experience was like, raising you. (you can share later)
"Mom, what was it like being a single mother?" (I'm making an assumption here, because if your dad or a second mom was at home, s/he has some responsibility for what you're feeling now.)
"What was your biggest worry? What's the funniest/most surprising thing I ever did? When were you most proud of me? What was the low point? Did you ever expect me to grow up and become ------? What kind of job did you have when you found out you were pregnant?"
You might get an opportunity to compare and contrast. "Really? I remember that day. You know, the kids at school were so unpleasant that I just wanted to be home and feel safe. They were always trying to get me to go out drinking."
At minimum, asking your mom about her life will probably improve your relationship and redirect your focus -- even if it's just for a little bit.
posted by vitabellosi at 5:09 PM on March 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
Or:
2. Instead of telling your mom what your experience was like, ask her some questions about what her experience was like, raising you. (you can share later)
"Mom, what was it like being a single mother?" (I'm making an assumption here, because if your dad or a second mom was at home, s/he has some responsibility for what you're feeling now.)
"What was your biggest worry? What's the funniest/most surprising thing I ever did? When were you most proud of me? What was the low point? Did you ever expect me to grow up and become ------? What kind of job did you have when you found out you were pregnant?"
You might get an opportunity to compare and contrast. "Really? I remember that day. You know, the kids at school were so unpleasant that I just wanted to be home and feel safe. They were always trying to get me to go out drinking."
At minimum, asking your mom about her life will probably improve your relationship and redirect your focus -- even if it's just for a little bit.
posted by vitabellosi at 5:09 PM on March 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
At a particularly difficult time of your life (adolescence), your Mother tried to push you to do things and live the way that worked for her, and that she thought would be good for you. It made you feel terrible.
What did your family do right? Have you appreciated those things?
My Mother was probably bipolar, certainly an alcoholic, and caused some real harm, not intentionally. She paid little attention to what I needed as an adolescent, and was careless as a parent, to the extent that I am, in several ways, luck to be alive, not in jail, etc. Esp. when drinking, she could be really mean. Part of the difficulty was the not knowing if she'd be a fun, lively person, with a wicked sense of humor and fun, or miserable and vicious, and resentful of everyone. She was manipulative, and re-arranged her view of reality to suit her needs. It's really sad that she grew up in a world with no anti-depressants, and Prozac and its offspring were available only late in her life.
What did she do right? She made sure there was a nutritious meal every evening for a family of 6 kids, and 2 adults. She was financially generous when I asked to borrow money, and appreciative of the fact that I paid it back. My parents sent us all to school; I had no college debt. She could be a good listener when she was on an even keel. She wanted things to be better, and sometimes listened when her kids told her what they needed. I'm really a different person from her, but I clearly have many of her values.
I think you will be happier if you give it some context, balance your view of your Mom with her as a whole person.
posted by theora55 at 5:40 PM on March 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
What did your family do right? Have you appreciated those things?
My Mother was probably bipolar, certainly an alcoholic, and caused some real harm, not intentionally. She paid little attention to what I needed as an adolescent, and was careless as a parent, to the extent that I am, in several ways, luck to be alive, not in jail, etc. Esp. when drinking, she could be really mean. Part of the difficulty was the not knowing if she'd be a fun, lively person, with a wicked sense of humor and fun, or miserable and vicious, and resentful of everyone. She was manipulative, and re-arranged her view of reality to suit her needs. It's really sad that she grew up in a world with no anti-depressants, and Prozac and its offspring were available only late in her life.
What did she do right? She made sure there was a nutritious meal every evening for a family of 6 kids, and 2 adults. She was financially generous when I asked to borrow money, and appreciative of the fact that I paid it back. My parents sent us all to school; I had no college debt. She could be a good listener when she was on an even keel. She wanted things to be better, and sometimes listened when her kids told her what they needed. I'm really a different person from her, but I clearly have many of her values.
I think you will be happier if you give it some context, balance your view of your Mom with her as a whole person.
posted by theora55 at 5:40 PM on March 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
On another note, I would never have known that you're not a native English speaker. Your writing far exceeds that of the majority of native speakers on the Internet. I think the time for excusing your English is past, my friend. ;)
posted by SixteenTons at 5:43 PM on March 20, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by SixteenTons at 5:43 PM on March 20, 2012 [5 favorites]
Why do you state as a condition for your question that you need to continue loving and respecting your mother?
Sounds to me like she has a huge blind spot, total lack of imagination regarding personality types other than her own, and is not willing to accept her daughter for who she is.
You can still love people given their failings, of course, but the respect meter might fall a bit. Who cares. Part of becoming an adult is realizing that your parents are just as screwed up as anybody else, often more so.
That doesn't mean you still can't love her for who SHE is, and feel gratitude for everything positive she did for you.
posted by zachawry at 5:47 PM on March 20, 2012
Sounds to me like she has a huge blind spot, total lack of imagination regarding personality types other than her own, and is not willing to accept her daughter for who she is.
You can still love people given their failings, of course, but the respect meter might fall a bit. Who cares. Part of becoming an adult is realizing that your parents are just as screwed up as anybody else, often more so.
That doesn't mean you still can't love her for who SHE is, and feel gratitude for everything positive she did for you.
posted by zachawry at 5:47 PM on March 20, 2012
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Can't really comment unless you clarify.
posted by BostonTerrier at 1:09 PM on March 20, 2012