Can I carefully and safely drug my dog?
December 20, 2011 3:11 AM
I've got another dog question. This time I need advice about what to do with her on New Year's Eve.
Obligatory pooch picture, since I haven't uploaded one in awhile.
Where I live, New Year's Eve is a HUGE DEAL. Outside of Carnaval, I would say that it is the biggest holiday of the year. How do we celebrate? Why, by setting of huge loud explosive fireworks!
Normally, this is cool as hell, but we have come to realize that puppy darling freaks out when people set off fireworks. She cowers and shakes and is generally miserable.
My question is this: Can I drug her? If so, what can I drug her with, and how much? I know you are not my vet, and god, I wish I could talk to mine, but she is already on vacation until the beginning of next year. I have a call in to the vet clinic, but I need backup info.
Further information: it's too late to get a thundershirt (I've already looked), and she ways about 34 kilos. I've seen that some people have given their dogs Benadryl successfully to chill them out, and that's really what I want. I want her to not freak out with the fireworks that will likely last hours on New Year's Eve. She will be with her peoples and her favorite doggy friend (who is deaf, nearly blind and oblivious to the festivities), and we have already started trying to play with her, practicing tricks when people light off fireworks right now. That has been marginally successful, but we know we can't play with her for hours on NYE.
Long story short: You are not my vet, and this is not veterinary advice, but can anyone provide anecdotes about successfully calming their pet "via chemistry" to get them through a tough period? I don't want to do it if I can't do it safely, but I also don't want pups to suffer with the terribly loud noises.
Thanks in advance
Obligatory pooch picture, since I haven't uploaded one in awhile.
Where I live, New Year's Eve is a HUGE DEAL. Outside of Carnaval, I would say that it is the biggest holiday of the year. How do we celebrate? Why, by setting of huge loud explosive fireworks!
Normally, this is cool as hell, but we have come to realize that puppy darling freaks out when people set off fireworks. She cowers and shakes and is generally miserable.
My question is this: Can I drug her? If so, what can I drug her with, and how much? I know you are not my vet, and god, I wish I could talk to mine, but she is already on vacation until the beginning of next year. I have a call in to the vet clinic, but I need backup info.
Further information: it's too late to get a thundershirt (I've already looked), and she ways about 34 kilos. I've seen that some people have given their dogs Benadryl successfully to chill them out, and that's really what I want. I want her to not freak out with the fireworks that will likely last hours on New Year's Eve. She will be with her peoples and her favorite doggy friend (who is deaf, nearly blind and oblivious to the festivities), and we have already started trying to play with her, practicing tricks when people light off fireworks right now. That has been marginally successful, but we know we can't play with her for hours on NYE.
Long story short: You are not my vet, and this is not veterinary advice, but can anyone provide anecdotes about successfully calming their pet "via chemistry" to get them through a tough period? I don't want to do it if I can't do it safely, but I also don't want pups to suffer with the terribly loud noises.
Thanks in advance
Here's a similar question I asked years ago: valium, benadryl & acepromazine were mentioned, but I can't personally vouch for any of them as I never ended up resorting to medication.
Besides the sound of the fireworks, the sight of them going off can also get a dog going, so closing your curtains/blinds/shutters may help - if only a little.
posted by misteraitch at 4:16 AM on December 20, 2011
Besides the sound of the fireworks, the sight of them going off can also get a dog going, so closing your curtains/blinds/shutters may help - if only a little.
posted by misteraitch at 4:16 AM on December 20, 2011
My vet recommended giving our dog benadryl when we had to put her in cargo to fly her to the UK. And as we weren't really there in cargo with her to see her reaction, I'm not sure how much it helped, but she was super excited and happy to see us when she came through the other side, so I don't think it got her mad at us or anything. Just make sure it's only benadryl, and not some combo cold&flu&allergy medicine, and also you're not regularly giving her any other medication at the moment, are you? If you are, then DEFINITELY talk to a vet before giving your dog anything else.
posted by Grither at 4:31 AM on December 20, 2011
posted by Grither at 4:31 AM on December 20, 2011
When we lived in a thunderstorm-prone area, our dog was prescribed alprazolam (Xanax) for her fear of them, and it worked a treat. She went from a whiny, shuddering mess to being able to lie calmly at our feet. I never saw any concerning side effects, but that doesn't mean there aren't any; I definitely wouldn't administer anything without consulting a vet first.
Just as a side note, I personally don't like acepromazine, as while it is sedating, it can make animals more on edge/irritable, and in rare instances, aggressive. My dog was on it once and while physically she was sedate, she still seemed mentally agitated. It made my cat a cranky, miserable beast.
posted by lovermont at 4:42 AM on December 20, 2011
Just as a side note, I personally don't like acepromazine, as while it is sedating, it can make animals more on edge/irritable, and in rare instances, aggressive. My dog was on it once and while physically she was sedate, she still seemed mentally agitated. It made my cat a cranky, miserable beast.
posted by lovermont at 4:42 AM on December 20, 2011
If you decide that you will administer Benadryl to the puppy, I suggest you use the baby Benadryl and not the adult one. Try a quarter teaspoon first. Looks like puppy is approximately 60lbs? I'm not sure. You can always give the puppy a little more, but start with a low dose first.
Good luck. Happy holidays!
posted by Yellow at 4:43 AM on December 20, 2011
Good luck. Happy holidays!
posted by Yellow at 4:43 AM on December 20, 2011
Is there a quiet place you can travel to with the puppy. (i.e. leave the area for New Years eve) and go someplace fun that is also quiet.
posted by blaisec at 5:28 AM on December 20, 2011
posted by blaisec at 5:28 AM on December 20, 2011
This sounds like a great question for your vet's office, and not random people on the internet. Not being snarky, just that when drugs are involved, better to get a trained opinion.
posted by canine epigram at 5:52 AM on December 20, 2011
posted by canine epigram at 5:52 AM on December 20, 2011
This is not veterinary advice, I am not a vet, and you should always ask your vet before giving anything to your pet.
The recommended dose of diphenhydramine for dogs you will find on the Internet is 1mg/lb. This is what the best vets I have ever worked with have always recommended. It seems like way too much, based on the human dosing, but that is because it is metabolized differently in dogs. Make sure it is straight diphenhydramine (Benadryl) and not one of the combination Cold/Flu/Sinus products that contain other drugs that can be dangerous to dogs.
That said, you really should get in to see a vet. Diphenhydramine does not always cause enough drowsiness to ward off a severe phobic-type reaction, and if a dog gets scared while slightly drowsy, they can hurt themselves by running around while dazed. The vet will willing give you something that is stronger and more effective, like acepromazine, diazepam or (best in my non-professional opinion) clomipramine.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:57 AM on December 20, 2011
The recommended dose of diphenhydramine for dogs you will find on the Internet is 1mg/lb. This is what the best vets I have ever worked with have always recommended. It seems like way too much, based on the human dosing, but that is because it is metabolized differently in dogs. Make sure it is straight diphenhydramine (Benadryl) and not one of the combination Cold/Flu/Sinus products that contain other drugs that can be dangerous to dogs.
That said, you really should get in to see a vet. Diphenhydramine does not always cause enough drowsiness to ward off a severe phobic-type reaction, and if a dog gets scared while slightly drowsy, they can hurt themselves by running around while dazed. The vet will willing give you something that is stronger and more effective, like acepromazine, diazepam or (best in my non-professional opinion) clomipramine.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:57 AM on December 20, 2011
Do you have an internal room? I mean one without windows or contact with outside walls? The sounds would be more muffled, and that would be the place to make up a doggy bed. This is what we did for one of Pusslikeso's predecessors - he had wonky kidneys, so sedatives were too much of a risk. It worked. Nthing wait for vet clinic advice. You need professional guidance here.
posted by likeso at 5:59 AM on December 20, 2011
posted by likeso at 5:59 AM on December 20, 2011
My sister is a Vet Tech, not a vet. I was having a rough time with my psychotic Beagle. She told me the dosage for Benadryl is 1mg per pound of weight. I don't know what the conversion to kg would be. I was lucky, my dog weighed 25 lbs and I had 25 mg pills!
posted by TooFewShoes at 6:01 AM on December 20, 2011
posted by TooFewShoes at 6:01 AM on December 20, 2011
Thanks all! My vet ended up prescribing something called "Acepran", which I guess is Acepromazine. She gave me the correct dosage for my dog's weight, and hopefully that will help her out.
Blaisec, you have NO IDEA how much I would like to avoid the noisiness of NYE, but I live in Brazil, so the night is pretty much noisy no matter where you are. We are a firework loving people.
I do plan on having her bed and favorite toys set up in a quiet(er) room in the back of the house where she can chill out. The vet said she should actually sleep. I'm not so sure I want her to sleep (for some reason, it bothers me knocking my pup out entirely, not sure why), I just want her to relax.
Anaelith, doggie earplugs would be awesome, but my girl would have them out in no time flat, and would probably eat them instead!
Thanks again for all of your help. The green and all those on it are awesome.
posted by msali at 6:26 AM on December 20, 2011
Blaisec, you have NO IDEA how much I would like to avoid the noisiness of NYE, but I live in Brazil, so the night is pretty much noisy no matter where you are. We are a firework loving people.
I do plan on having her bed and favorite toys set up in a quiet(er) room in the back of the house where she can chill out. The vet said she should actually sleep. I'm not so sure I want her to sleep (for some reason, it bothers me knocking my pup out entirely, not sure why), I just want her to relax.
Anaelith, doggie earplugs would be awesome, but my girl would have them out in no time flat, and would probably eat them instead!
Thanks again for all of your help. The green and all those on it are awesome.
posted by msali at 6:26 AM on December 20, 2011
Acepromazine is really not the best option - it is sedating without being anti-anxiety in any way, and this can actually make the dog panic and be worse next time - using acepromazine for this type of thing is very outdated because it simply does not work as you need it to work. Xanax is a much, much better choice, because it DOES have an anti-anxiety effect. And Benadryl really does not sedate dogs as a general rule, and it is also not an anti-anxiety drug.
You could also consider a Thundershirt, they work very well for many dogs.
posted by biscotti at 7:36 AM on December 20, 2011
You could also consider a Thundershirt, they work very well for many dogs.
posted by biscotti at 7:36 AM on December 20, 2011
Hey Biscotti, I guess you missed the part where I said I couldn't get a Thundershirt :)
I am in Brazil and Acepromazine was what the doctor ordered. When I mentioned xanax, she was completely befuddled. Evidently, xanax is not SOC for dogs here yet. Do you think I should just avoid giving her the Acepromazine altogether? I would rather risk her freaking out than giving her something that will make her feel worse. I could get my hands on Loratadina (what we call generic benadryl here), but that doesn't sound like such a hot idea either. I know you are not my vet and this is not veterinary advice. Just your humble opinion is requested!
posted by msali at 7:42 AM on December 20, 2011
I am in Brazil and Acepromazine was what the doctor ordered. When I mentioned xanax, she was completely befuddled. Evidently, xanax is not SOC for dogs here yet. Do you think I should just avoid giving her the Acepromazine altogether? I would rather risk her freaking out than giving her something that will make her feel worse. I could get my hands on Loratadina (what we call generic benadryl here), but that doesn't sound like such a hot idea either. I know you are not my vet and this is not veterinary advice. Just your humble opinion is requested!
posted by msali at 7:42 AM on December 20, 2011
If Loratadina is loratadine, it's not the same as Benadryl and won't help. It's an allergy medication but doesn't have any sedating effects.
You can make your own Thundershirt out of a stretchy bandage (an ACE bandage or Tensor bandage, like you'd use for a sprained ankle). (sorry, I did miss that part).
You can try the acepromazine, but I would suggest you read the Karen Overall article I posted, and maybe ask your vet to look it over and see if s/he can suggest anything else.
posted by biscotti at 8:14 AM on December 20, 2011
You can make your own Thundershirt out of a stretchy bandage (an ACE bandage or Tensor bandage, like you'd use for a sprained ankle). (sorry, I did miss that part).
You can try the acepromazine, but I would suggest you read the Karen Overall article I posted, and maybe ask your vet to look it over and see if s/he can suggest anything else.
posted by biscotti at 8:14 AM on December 20, 2011
Thanks, biscotti. I did read the article you posted, and it basically convinced me that I don't want to give my dog the acepromazine, ever. My vet can't read the article because she doesn't speak English. Plus, my normal vet is already on vacation, so I am dealing with whatever floating vet happens to be at the office when I call/show up. I think I am going to try to make my own Thundershirt! That's an awesome idea! Thanks!
posted by msali at 8:19 AM on December 20, 2011
posted by msali at 8:19 AM on December 20, 2011
It's a good idea to condition your dog to the Thundershirt/Thundershirt substitute ahead of time so she doesn't associate it with the Bad Thing by virtue of only ever seeing it just before a storm or fireworks. Starting today, you could put it on her and then give her a nice bone or peanut butter Kong, some type of calming, soothing activity. Then take it off when she's done, and repeat every day.
posted by HotToddy at 8:33 AM on December 20, 2011
posted by HotToddy at 8:33 AM on December 20, 2011
When I mentioned xanax, she was completely befuddled
Xanax is a brand name of alprazolam, and it may not be the same in other countries/languages. This list (that I got from a not entirely reliable looking website, but take it for what it's worth) suggests it may be called Frontal in Brazil.
Xanax is a brand name of alprazolam, and it may not be the same in other countries/languages. This list (that I got from a not entirely reliable looking website, but take it for what it's worth) suggests it may be called Frontal in Brazil.
Alprazolam Xanax, Xanor, Kalma, Tafil, Alprox, Frontal(Brazil)posted by Rock Steady at 8:49 AM on December 20, 2011
Thanks Rock Steady. Thank my lucky stars, my vet (who is on vacation), got my message and called me! She is awesome. She prescribed a natural phytotherapeutic calming product, that comes in both drops and doggy biscuits (can't find a website in English, or I'd show you). You dose 1 ml/3 kilos, and it should take 30-45 minutes to kick in. If she starts to get wiggy, you give her a doggy biscuit.
Evidently, the alprazolam, zanax, frontal movement is not very well established (she actually discussed it with me at great length!), and the Brazilian veterinary establishment apparently hasn't reached a consensus on the safety of that treatment, hence, this natural product.
We are going to test drive it on Christmas day, when fireworks are also shot off, but not so much, and get our dosage right. If all goes well, our girl will be Ms. Chill, but not Ms. Drugged Off Her Ass Passed Out, which is what we want. Thank you everyone for helping! I will let you know how it goes.
posted by msali at 10:06 AM on December 20, 2011
Evidently, the alprazolam, zanax, frontal movement is not very well established (she actually discussed it with me at great length!), and the Brazilian veterinary establishment apparently hasn't reached a consensus on the safety of that treatment, hence, this natural product.
We are going to test drive it on Christmas day, when fireworks are also shot off, but not so much, and get our dosage right. If all goes well, our girl will be Ms. Chill, but not Ms. Drugged Off Her Ass Passed Out, which is what we want. Thank you everyone for helping! I will let you know how it goes.
posted by msali at 10:06 AM on December 20, 2011
Oh, and just as a little by the by: Acepromazine is apparently a Very Bad Thing. My vet said that she cannot believe that this crap gets sold at reputable pet shops, because you can really harm your dog both mentally and physically with this shit. Not even VETS like to use it, and it shouldn't be in the hands of lay people like me. Word to the wise, if someone offers your dog acepromazine to chill out, JUST SAY NO!
posted by msali at 10:14 AM on December 20, 2011
posted by msali at 10:14 AM on December 20, 2011
I'm a vet, but not your vet so this isn't medical advice.
If you want another layer of protection, try a white noise machine (or app for your phone) in the room where your adorable pup will be resting. Let us know how she does.
posted by Nickel Pickle at 2:05 PM on December 20, 2011
If you want another layer of protection, try a white noise machine (or app for your phone) in the room where your adorable pup will be resting. Let us know how she does.
posted by Nickel Pickle at 2:05 PM on December 20, 2011
The last time my family got together before my mom died was in Brazil for New Years. You aren't kidding with the fireworks! Awesome (glad my dog wasn't there).
If the meds aren't mellowing her out enough, or you want to add a distraction to help even further, what I found worked with my noise phobic dog was giving her a tiny treat after every firework. I seriously gave her a 1/4" of a pepperoni slice every thirty seconds to a minute and a half. So small that I would only go through about 5 slices in the entire night or a single chicken breast, etc. Steak is great for this. They don't care about the size, but they get focused. Just feed her constantly. Been doing this for a few years, and her anxiety has almost gone away.
posted by Vaike at 5:46 PM on December 20, 2011
If the meds aren't mellowing her out enough, or you want to add a distraction to help even further, what I found worked with my noise phobic dog was giving her a tiny treat after every firework. I seriously gave her a 1/4" of a pepperoni slice every thirty seconds to a minute and a half. So small that I would only go through about 5 slices in the entire night or a single chicken breast, etc. Steak is great for this. They don't care about the size, but they get focused. Just feed her constantly. Been doing this for a few years, and her anxiety has almost gone away.
posted by Vaike at 5:46 PM on December 20, 2011
I also use a white noise machine for my little guy since he's small enough that medicating is difficult. If it's a super loud night i also turn on the tv or a radio. Then if he gets tense at an outside noise I say "it's just the radio" and that seems to help him a lot.
Your dog is so beautiful. I hope you both make it through with minimal stress.
posted by tinamonster at 11:02 PM on December 20, 2011
Your dog is so beautiful. I hope you both make it through with minimal stress.
posted by tinamonster at 11:02 PM on December 20, 2011
The drugs work! Fireworks are already going off here like crazy, and my dog is "nem aí" (translation: she could give a shit). Happy New Year!
posted by msali at 8:25 AM on December 31, 2011
posted by msali at 8:25 AM on December 31, 2011
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