relationships
June 12, 2005 8:43 AM
So have you been in a relationship that was just "ok" or somewhat unsatisfying, or even typefied by ongoing low-level bickering, and then improved it somehow so that it was actually really good?
Was counseling helpful? Did you change your attitude? Win the lottery? Go through some self-transformation that improved things? Read John Gottman? I'm primarily interested in hearing from folks in long-term relationships, unless you think it's relevant.
-->I am not researching an article, just looking for a systematic way to improve my marriage. Or my attitude.
Was counseling helpful? Did you change your attitude? Win the lottery? Go through some self-transformation that improved things? Read John Gottman? I'm primarily interested in hearing from folks in long-term relationships, unless you think it's relevant.
-->I am not researching an article, just looking for a systematic way to improve my marriage. Or my attitude.
we went through a pretty bad patch, largely caused by fixed, identifiable causes. simply hanging on in there, fixing what we could, and waiting for time to heal the rest, worked. but it took a long time and wasn't that pleasant.
not sure that helps particularly, and no way will be i be more specific.
however, i think one of quatermass's points was also relevant in a more general way - i don't think it was particularly instrumental in getting us through the bad times, but it has made our relationship a lot better over the longer term. and that has been each accepting the other as they are. i no longer try to change pauli to be like me, and she no longer expects me to behave like her. at least, that's the theory ;o)
and (of course?) the way you do any of this is through talking. it doesn't have to be enjoyable - when things are bad it can be very uncomfortable indeed - but you have to keep talking. you both have to recognise that, and you both have to be able to say to the other "look, you ****, you're not talking", and there has to be the unwritten law that that is the biggest criticism of all, and that if you're not talking, and that criticism comes out, you have to start. at least, that was our basic tool. the only one in the box at times.
i guess for others, that's what counselling does.
finally, at least in our case, it really did get better. best thing in my life - our lives. so good luck.
posted by andrew cooke at 9:35 AM on June 12, 2005
not sure that helps particularly, and no way will be i be more specific.
however, i think one of quatermass's points was also relevant in a more general way - i don't think it was particularly instrumental in getting us through the bad times, but it has made our relationship a lot better over the longer term. and that has been each accepting the other as they are. i no longer try to change pauli to be like me, and she no longer expects me to behave like her. at least, that's the theory ;o)
and (of course?) the way you do any of this is through talking. it doesn't have to be enjoyable - when things are bad it can be very uncomfortable indeed - but you have to keep talking. you both have to recognise that, and you both have to be able to say to the other "look, you ****, you're not talking", and there has to be the unwritten law that that is the biggest criticism of all, and that if you're not talking, and that criticism comes out, you have to start. at least, that was our basic tool. the only one in the box at times.
i guess for others, that's what counselling does.
finally, at least in our case, it really did get better. best thing in my life - our lives. so good luck.
posted by andrew cooke at 9:35 AM on June 12, 2005
you know, reading your question again, i'm not sure i'm helping. our problems were more emotionally violent. there's always been "something there", it's just that at times it was more hate/anger rather than love/respect. while your problem sounds more like indifference. sorry.
posted by andrew cooke at 9:45 AM on June 12, 2005
posted by andrew cooke at 9:45 AM on June 12, 2005
Quartermass writes "Though that sounds simple, it made all the difference for me. And because I couldn't fix her, or change her, I put a lot of effort into fixing myself to be easier to be married to. I.e., I started working out a lot, dressing nicer, going out of my way to improve myself. I also put more thought into her - what she liked, who she was, why I fell in love with her, and in less than a month, things have improved to better than they ever have been in our entire relationship. Things are amazing. "
I think this is a key paragraph. Too often the issue is framed (although not explicitly in your question) as "What can I do to change the other person so that I like being with them more?"; and the answer is of course, nothing. What you can do is do something different in yourself, make changes that you think would improve things, and in concert with conversations with your partner, hope that they take a similar line and things in general improve.
I also think that when you decide to make a change, it's important to change enough. What I mean is that you have to determine the goal (improved marriage) and then work toward that goal. What steps you take are determined by the goal, not by a sense of limits that you impose yourself. If the goal is to improve your marriage then keep working until it is improved instead of deciding it would be better if you did X, doing X, and then stopping because you consider your job done.
Counseling can help, but I can tell you from experience that you need to decide before you go if you're going to help with breaking up, or going to help with staying together. Either one is ok, but it's the first assessment that couples counselors usually make, and you should know the answer yourself (preferably both of you) before you go so that you won't be surprised by the direction that treatment takes.
posted by OmieWise at 10:43 AM on June 12, 2005
I think this is a key paragraph. Too often the issue is framed (although not explicitly in your question) as "What can I do to change the other person so that I like being with them more?"; and the answer is of course, nothing. What you can do is do something different in yourself, make changes that you think would improve things, and in concert with conversations with your partner, hope that they take a similar line and things in general improve.
I also think that when you decide to make a change, it's important to change enough. What I mean is that you have to determine the goal (improved marriage) and then work toward that goal. What steps you take are determined by the goal, not by a sense of limits that you impose yourself. If the goal is to improve your marriage then keep working until it is improved instead of deciding it would be better if you did X, doing X, and then stopping because you consider your job done.
Counseling can help, but I can tell you from experience that you need to decide before you go if you're going to help with breaking up, or going to help with staying together. Either one is ok, but it's the first assessment that couples counselors usually make, and you should know the answer yourself (preferably both of you) before you go so that you won't be surprised by the direction that treatment takes.
posted by OmieWise at 10:43 AM on June 12, 2005
So have you been in a relationship that was just "ok" or somewhat unsatisfying, or even typefied by ongoing low-level bickering, and then improved it somehow so that it was actually really good?
how did you get into the relationship? was there ever a time that something felt special, or did things just kind of end up lasting 'cause neither of you ever broke it off? In my experience, things often don't get much clearer with distance - that is, if you have mixed feelings about a relationship, you are likely to have mixed feelings if you end it, and you are likely to continue having mixed feelings if you stick with it.
That means that you have to work out what's important to you: what you want out of a marriage, what being married means to you, what this particular person means to you, how you feel about other parts of your life at the moment, etc...
Behavior can change, but if there's a fundamental level of doubt in the way you feel about the person, then you will really have to make a strong choice that it is definitely worth it, that you want this, if you're going to be successful in changing things.
posted by mdn at 3:58 PM on June 12, 2005
how did you get into the relationship? was there ever a time that something felt special, or did things just kind of end up lasting 'cause neither of you ever broke it off? In my experience, things often don't get much clearer with distance - that is, if you have mixed feelings about a relationship, you are likely to have mixed feelings if you end it, and you are likely to continue having mixed feelings if you stick with it.
That means that you have to work out what's important to you: what you want out of a marriage, what being married means to you, what this particular person means to you, how you feel about other parts of your life at the moment, etc...
Behavior can change, but if there's a fundamental level of doubt in the way you feel about the person, then you will really have to make a strong choice that it is definitely worth it, that you want this, if you're going to be successful in changing things.
posted by mdn at 3:58 PM on June 12, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
Up to that point, one of us would be trying to make things work, with the other kind of not, and at times, it felt more like living with a roommate. I really had to sit down and figure out if our marriage was worth it, what my life would be like without her etc, and at the end of the day realized how much better life was with her.
Though that sounds simple, it made all the difference for me. And because I couldn't fix her, or change her, I put a lot of effort into fixing myself to be easier to be married to. I.e., I started working out a lot, dressing nicer, going out of my way to improve myself. I also put more thought into her - what she liked, who she was, why I fell in love with her, and in less than a month, things have improved to better than they ever have been in our entire relationship. Things are amazing.
My system:
1) Decide if marriage is worth it
2) If it is, put a lot of work into improving how you look, dress, smell, think etc.
3) Start focusing on the good things your wife has to offer
4) Talk to your wife. Lots. Take her to coffee, or dinner. Get to know her again.
posted by Quartermass at 9:23 AM on June 12, 2005