Is "too hungover" a valid excuse?
July 28, 2011 11:49 AM
A close friend keeps flaking on events because he's "too hungover". It's getting annoying.
No, he doesn't have a drinking problem - he just gets really nasty hangovers (apparently).
On three separate occasions I've had plans with a buddy of mine - usually a happy hour or plans to "go out" in the general sense (bar-hopping, clubbing, what have you).
On three separate occasions within the last few months, he has sent a last minute text to tell me "Sorry, went out with some coworkers last night and I'm just too hungover now." I'll send a text saying we don't have to drink, we can just grab dinner. "Sorry, I'm too nauseous to even eat". Okay, maybe we can just hang out. "Sorry, I think I'm just going to crash tonight."
This makes me really frustrated because it seems like he is preemptively blowing off our plans when he chooses to binge drink the night before with his coworkers. Yes, a hangover is technically the same as being sick, but it's a sickness that he willingly brought upon himself. It almost feels like he is choosing his coworkers over me, like he's thinking "Wait, am I going to be too hungover to hang out with Anonymous tomorrow? Eh fuck it, I'm having fun."
Are my feelings irrational? Is this extremely disrespectful behavior, or something I just need to chalk up as "it happens"? And is there any way to address this with him without looking like too controlling a friend?
Note: No, no one is an alcoholic in this scenario. I'll be pretty disappointed if this turns into a thread about the dangers of binge drinking/addiction/"your friend needs to go to AA"/etc...we are both typical post-college early-20's guys who go out and drink socially one or two nights a week. As a matter of fact, I drink heavier and more often than him, but it does not cause me to ruin my plans or have a negative effect on my life.
No, he doesn't have a drinking problem - he just gets really nasty hangovers (apparently).
On three separate occasions I've had plans with a buddy of mine - usually a happy hour or plans to "go out" in the general sense (bar-hopping, clubbing, what have you).
On three separate occasions within the last few months, he has sent a last minute text to tell me "Sorry, went out with some coworkers last night and I'm just too hungover now." I'll send a text saying we don't have to drink, we can just grab dinner. "Sorry, I'm too nauseous to even eat". Okay, maybe we can just hang out. "Sorry, I think I'm just going to crash tonight."
This makes me really frustrated because it seems like he is preemptively blowing off our plans when he chooses to binge drink the night before with his coworkers. Yes, a hangover is technically the same as being sick, but it's a sickness that he willingly brought upon himself. It almost feels like he is choosing his coworkers over me, like he's thinking "Wait, am I going to be too hungover to hang out with Anonymous tomorrow? Eh fuck it, I'm having fun."
Are my feelings irrational? Is this extremely disrespectful behavior, or something I just need to chalk up as "it happens"? And is there any way to address this with him without looking like too controlling a friend?
Note: No, no one is an alcoholic in this scenario. I'll be pretty disappointed if this turns into a thread about the dangers of binge drinking/addiction/"your friend needs to go to AA"/etc...we are both typical post-college early-20's guys who go out and drink socially one or two nights a week. As a matter of fact, I drink heavier and more often than him, but it does not cause me to ruin my plans or have a negative effect on my life.
I mean, regardless of whether or not he has a drinking problem, on three separate occasions he has willingly and knowingly chosen alcohol over you. You can be cool with this or not, but that's the situation: he would rather drink than hang out with you, because he knows that when he drinks he won't be able to hang out with you. You can choose to deal with that how you want, but that's the situation.
posted by brainmouse at 11:53 AM on July 28, 2011
posted by brainmouse at 11:53 AM on July 28, 2011
Disappointed you may be, but if he's binge drinking often enough to be consistently hungover, dude has a drinking problem. He also has a drinking problem if he's actively choosing to get drunk over hanging out with a friend. You aren't with him all the time. You don't know if he drinks more often, and more heavily, than you do.
Possible alternative: He's just not that into you (anymore).
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 11:53 AM on July 28, 2011
Possible alternative: He's just not that into you (anymore).
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 11:53 AM on July 28, 2011
Have you mentioned to him how annoying this is? Next time you make plans with him, you could bring it up, point-blank: "You've cancelled the last few times we've gone out because you were 'too hungover'. Is that going to happen again? Because it's super annoying." Of course, it's possible he doesn't give a damn, either, in which case, you're SOL, but at least you will have said something.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:53 AM on July 28, 2011
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:53 AM on July 28, 2011
These 3 separate occasions you talk about over the past few months -- are they the only plans you guys have had? Or have you hung out between these times? Because if these are the only plans you guys have had, it sounds to me like he is trying to get some space from you and for some reason doesn't want to or feels like he can't be direct about it.
posted by Ashley801 at 11:53 AM on July 28, 2011
posted by Ashley801 at 11:53 AM on July 28, 2011
Maybe he's not hungover at all, and is just trying to get out of doing stuff with you. If he says he's hungover, he doesn't have to be direct and potentially insulting.
posted by headspace at 11:54 AM on July 28, 2011
posted by headspace at 11:54 AM on July 28, 2011
Friend, your drinking is causing trouble in your life. If you want help, I'm here for you.
Other friend, wanna go out tonight - there's a good band at someplace.
posted by theora55 at 11:55 AM on July 28, 2011
Other friend, wanna go out tonight - there's a good band at someplace.
posted by theora55 at 11:55 AM on July 28, 2011
To me, it sounds like he doesn't have a problem with booze, he has a problem with being forthright. He doesn't want to drink OR eat OR hang out with you. He's just using a hangover as an easy excuse to not spend time with you. It's time to move on. Sorry.
posted by kate blank at 11:57 AM on July 28, 2011
posted by kate blank at 11:57 AM on July 28, 2011
Agreed with TheBones. The excuse behind a blowoff probably doesn't even matter (outside of legitimate crises or whatever). Either find other people to do stuff with, or just lay it on his doorstep and say 'whenever you're up for something, let me know', and leave it at that.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:57 AM on July 28, 2011
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:57 AM on July 28, 2011
It is disrespectful, and you're not being irrational. I've been in this situation before (as the hungover party), and even if I had to cancel some outing, I'd always be 100% willing to just hang out with my friend. So the fact that he's really completely blowing you off, not just your plans, but your company altogether, is a bad sign. He may be feeling less connected to you and more connected to these coworkers he's drinking with.
I guess if I were in your place, I'd put this friendship in a holding pattern for a while and move on. If it's a phase and at some point he wants to go back to being a friend to you, he can seek you out then, and if you distance yourself now, you won't feel too embittered to resume your friendship later.
posted by Pants McCracky at 11:59 AM on July 28, 2011
I guess if I were in your place, I'd put this friendship in a holding pattern for a while and move on. If it's a phase and at some point he wants to go back to being a friend to you, he can seek you out then, and if you distance yourself now, you won't feel too embittered to resume your friendship later.
posted by Pants McCracky at 11:59 AM on July 28, 2011
He might be allergic to whatever he's drinking if it makes him this sick... you could point that out to him. I have a mild beer allergy, my sister gets sick for days off beer. It's a real thing.
posted by lizbunny at 12:00 PM on July 28, 2011
posted by lizbunny at 12:00 PM on July 28, 2011
Any excuse someone gives you for not spending time together is a valid excuse, and it communicates exactly what they're trying to communicate to you - whether consciously or subconsciously: that you are a lower priority than whatever has preempted you.
Sorry. You sound like you're getting the message loud and clear from this friend, and you don't like it. I don't blame you. That hurts.
If a friend canceled on me numerous times like this (for whatever reason) I'd say, "Look, you're getting too hard to pin down, so you just let me know when you want to hang out." And then I would expect to never hear from them again. Because clearly that's what they're trying to express that they want/need. Maybe this would make them reevaluate that position, but I doubt it.
Note: Binge drinking IS a drinking problem; drinking that impairs your ability to maintain friendships IS a drinking problem. Alcoholism isn't measured in how much or how frequently you drink. Alcoholism is only measured in how drinking impairs your ability to function in the world. Is it your responsibility to point this out to your friend? Absolutely not. And you're certainly within your rights not to WANT to have a discussion of how to deal with friends with drinking problems - but the question you asked is exactly that.
posted by jph at 12:01 PM on July 28, 2011
Sorry. You sound like you're getting the message loud and clear from this friend, and you don't like it. I don't blame you. That hurts.
If a friend canceled on me numerous times like this (for whatever reason) I'd say, "Look, you're getting too hard to pin down, so you just let me know when you want to hang out." And then I would expect to never hear from them again. Because clearly that's what they're trying to express that they want/need. Maybe this would make them reevaluate that position, but I doubt it.
Note: Binge drinking IS a drinking problem; drinking that impairs your ability to maintain friendships IS a drinking problem. Alcoholism isn't measured in how much or how frequently you drink. Alcoholism is only measured in how drinking impairs your ability to function in the world. Is it your responsibility to point this out to your friend? Absolutely not. And you're certainly within your rights not to WANT to have a discussion of how to deal with friends with drinking problems - but the question you asked is exactly that.
posted by jph at 12:01 PM on July 28, 2011
Either he really wants to hang out with you, but he's got a drinking problem or he's just a jerk and is pretending to have a drinking problem as an excuse.
posted by empath at 12:04 PM on July 28, 2011
posted by empath at 12:04 PM on July 28, 2011
Well, either the hangover is an excuse, in which case shop bothering to invite him, or he's getting so fucked up that he regularly misses out on things he wants to do, in which case he *does* have a drinking problem.
posted by rodgerd at 12:04 PM on July 28, 2011
posted by rodgerd at 12:04 PM on July 28, 2011
I am somebody who gets terrible hangovers and also migraines triggered by sulfites in wine and beer. I'm in my late twenties now, and it's only recently that I've become able to predict ahead of time how much I can risk drinking if I want to be functional the next day. Previously, I was always, "Seriously, ONE glass of wine? ONE bottle of cider? There is NO reason why I can't drink that without getting a hangover!" And yet, surprisingly, I can't.
So, maybe your friend is being extremely inconsiderate, or maybe your friend is purposely blowing you off, but it's also a possibility that he keeps getting genuinely surprised by not being able to keep up with his drinking buddies. It takes a long time to figure out your tolerances if they're far outside the norm.
Whatever the reason, after 3 of the same kind of incident, I'd definitely raise it as an issue, at least.
posted by Jeanne at 12:06 PM on July 28, 2011
So, maybe your friend is being extremely inconsiderate, or maybe your friend is purposely blowing you off, but it's also a possibility that he keeps getting genuinely surprised by not being able to keep up with his drinking buddies. It takes a long time to figure out your tolerances if they're far outside the norm.
Whatever the reason, after 3 of the same kind of incident, I'd definitely raise it as an issue, at least.
posted by Jeanne at 12:06 PM on July 28, 2011
Just because you say he doesn't have a drinking problem, doesn't mean he's not a problem drinker with a drinking problem. He may not be an alcoholic, but he clearly is overdoing it far too much.
Bring it to his attention out of concern. Be prepared for him to attack you. But if you are his friend, you will say something.
You shouldn't rely on him any more to do things. If he can, that's fine, but don't let him be the linchpin to your plans.
posted by inturnaround at 12:11 PM on July 28, 2011
Bring it to his attention out of concern. Be prepared for him to attack you. But if you are his friend, you will say something.
You shouldn't rely on him any more to do things. If he can, that's fine, but don't let him be the linchpin to your plans.
posted by inturnaround at 12:11 PM on July 28, 2011
"Oh, that sucks, I was looking forward to hanging out tonight. Next text you guys go out give me a call. I'd love to meet your co-workers. Sounds like you always have a good time with them." - then the ball is in his court (as it should be since he keeps canceling)
If he doesn't make plans with you and continues to blow you off... chances are he is moving onto new friends and you should do the same.
If it were me, I would probably slowly stop inviting him out personally.
posted by LZel at 12:17 PM on July 28, 2011
If he doesn't make plans with you and continues to blow you off... chances are he is moving onto new friends and you should do the same.
If it were me, I would probably slowly stop inviting him out personally.
posted by LZel at 12:17 PM on July 28, 2011
and yes, it is extremely disrespectful behavior. You can be mad ;)
posted by LZel at 12:18 PM on July 28, 2011
posted by LZel at 12:18 PM on July 28, 2011
No, your feelings are not irrational.
FWIW I am your friend - I get bad hangovers, and I find that going for a 'quiet drink' with coworkers is the fastest track to overkill because, y'know, you just sit and drink... It's not necessarily a smokescreen for fading you out, but I doubt he's truly too hungover to see you. It's most likely that he's tired and being lazy.
My friends called me out on it. My best friend now refuses to make concrete plans unless I promise to be there! Guilt, framed in a jokey, friendly way actually works in this situation!
YOU: Hey, mate, wanna go down to [insert venue] for a drink on Saturday?
FRIEND: Yeah, sounds good? What time?
YOU: Well, I'm only gonna make plans if you damn well show up this time!
FRIEND: Sorry about that. I swear I'll make it up to you on Saturday!
PS. It doesn't sound like he has a drinking problem - he is every 20-something guy I know.
posted by dumdidumdum at 12:23 PM on July 28, 2011
FWIW I am your friend - I get bad hangovers, and I find that going for a 'quiet drink' with coworkers is the fastest track to overkill because, y'know, you just sit and drink... It's not necessarily a smokescreen for fading you out, but I doubt he's truly too hungover to see you. It's most likely that he's tired and being lazy.
My friends called me out on it. My best friend now refuses to make concrete plans unless I promise to be there! Guilt, framed in a jokey, friendly way actually works in this situation!
YOU: Hey, mate, wanna go down to [insert venue] for a drink on Saturday?
FRIEND: Yeah, sounds good? What time?
YOU: Well, I'm only gonna make plans if you damn well show up this time!
FRIEND: Sorry about that. I swear I'll make it up to you on Saturday!
PS. It doesn't sound like he has a drinking problem - he is every 20-something guy I know.
posted by dumdidumdum at 12:23 PM on July 28, 2011
nthng blow-off, FWIW. Leave the ball in his court and make friends who actually like you.
posted by AmandaA at 12:29 PM on July 28, 2011
posted by AmandaA at 12:29 PM on July 28, 2011
I have had this same thing happen - a friend that I used to be really close with started being unable to make it to nights with me and my friends because he was hungover from the night before. What happened was that we were close when we worked together, and had a circle of work friends that would make our plans at the end of the work day, and go straight from work to a bar. Now we work at different companies, and he's doing the same thing with his new work friends. Some people are just not good at planning ahead, and just go with the flow of the party that's around them. They haven't the slightest inkling about how that is going to catch up with them the next day. I still think he's an awesome fun guy, and I still will invite him to parties, but I don't get upset if he doesn't show up, he's just like that.
your friend may not be trying to get away from you, or even realize that he's done this to you 3 times in a row, he just might not be thinking at all. I certainly wouldn't make plans that depended on him being there to happen - make plans with a group of people, so if he shows up, yay, the more the merrier, and if he doesn't, you still will have fun with the other people.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:31 PM on July 28, 2011
your friend may not be trying to get away from you, or even realize that he's done this to you 3 times in a row, he just might not be thinking at all. I certainly wouldn't make plans that depended on him being there to happen - make plans with a group of people, so if he shows up, yay, the more the merrier, and if he doesn't, you still will have fun with the other people.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:31 PM on July 28, 2011
If he's had to cancel plans with you three times recently because he was hungover then he should be intelligent enough to string together a pattern. Drink too much the night before = won't want to follow through on plans with pal. I'm sure he has done the math and knows this. He thinks he can put you on the shelf and you will be there after he has lost interest in going out with his current click.* My answer? Nobody puts baby in the corner.
*OK, yeah, I've totally done this myself so I am making my choices his choices. It's easy to be this rude person so don't be too hard on him but let him know it's not cool. Vanessa, my bestie, I'm totally sorry for every time I drank too much at the Alaskan and couldn't go hiking!
posted by Foam Pants at 12:31 PM on July 28, 2011
*OK, yeah, I've totally done this myself so I am making my choices his choices. It's easy to be this rude person so don't be too hard on him but let him know it's not cool. Vanessa, my bestie, I'm totally sorry for every time I drank too much at the Alaskan and couldn't go hiking!
posted by Foam Pants at 12:31 PM on July 28, 2011
I have two friends who get these kind of debilitating hangovers. They really can't face going out (or moving in general) when they hit. One of them gets them most times she drinks, so she either doesn't drink or knows she's likely to be out of action the next day when she does. No problem. The other one only gets them sometimes when she drinks, maybe 25-30% of the time. And it's not always directly related to how much she drinks, so she can't reliably plan for how she'll be the next day. It's in the back of her mind but since she's likely to be fine she only abstains if something really important is coming up, like an exam or something. Personally I never get hangovers no matter how much or what I drink, except for the times every couple of years or so that I'm totally crippled and left in bed throwing up for hours. So I drink with abandon and just deal with it the very few times it bites me. Hangovers are tricksy beasts, caused by a combination of factors and not always predictable.
You said that you and your friend drink a couple of times per week but that he's blown you off three times in the last few months. Meaning lots of drinking without hangovers. So either he only drank really heavily those times or he just doesn't get hangovers every time he drinks. If it's the latter (and even the former, drinking more than you planned happens sometimes) it's entirely possible that he didn't know the hangover would come when he was drinking with his co-workers. Which also means it's unlikely that he would be thinking about his plans with you the next day - why would he when he expects to be fine? There's no reason to think he's pre-emptively blowing you off or doing it on purpose so feeling hurt about that part does seem irrational on your part. I definitely don't see any reason to think he's avoiding you in general like some people are suggesting.
You've turned it into this thing in your head where he's doing it on purpose, not caring about what happens to his plans with you, but there are so many other possibilities. I think you should talk to him about how you feel and find out what really is happening with him. Even if it is an accident or unexpected it still sucks to have your plans changed at the last minute so I do think you're owed an apology. Also maybe he needs to be more careful with the drinking. Lots of people find alcohol tolerance goes down and hangovers go up as you get older, maybe this is telling him he can't drink the same way he used to. But don't make it into some big thing about your relationship if you don't need to. A little sympathy from you for how bad he's feeling at the time might be helpful too (mixed in with the told you so is fine), those kind of hangovers are really awful and him staying home is a reasonable thing to do when one hits.
posted by shelleycat at 12:31 PM on July 28, 2011
You said that you and your friend drink a couple of times per week but that he's blown you off three times in the last few months. Meaning lots of drinking without hangovers. So either he only drank really heavily those times or he just doesn't get hangovers every time he drinks. If it's the latter (and even the former, drinking more than you planned happens sometimes) it's entirely possible that he didn't know the hangover would come when he was drinking with his co-workers. Which also means it's unlikely that he would be thinking about his plans with you the next day - why would he when he expects to be fine? There's no reason to think he's pre-emptively blowing you off or doing it on purpose so feeling hurt about that part does seem irrational on your part. I definitely don't see any reason to think he's avoiding you in general like some people are suggesting.
You've turned it into this thing in your head where he's doing it on purpose, not caring about what happens to his plans with you, but there are so many other possibilities. I think you should talk to him about how you feel and find out what really is happening with him. Even if it is an accident or unexpected it still sucks to have your plans changed at the last minute so I do think you're owed an apology. Also maybe he needs to be more careful with the drinking. Lots of people find alcohol tolerance goes down and hangovers go up as you get older, maybe this is telling him he can't drink the same way he used to. But don't make it into some big thing about your relationship if you don't need to. A little sympathy from you for how bad he's feeling at the time might be helpful too (mixed in with the told you so is fine), those kind of hangovers are really awful and him staying home is a reasonable thing to do when one hits.
posted by shelleycat at 12:31 PM on July 28, 2011
It's also possible that your friend is realizing that he has an alcohol problem, and is trying to avoid putting himself in situations where drinking is a central part of the activity. If you really do want him as a friend, try inviting him to an event that will not involve anybody drinking; if it's just the two of you, maybe you could create an opportunity to clear the air.
Or maybe the socializing with people from work is something he sees as sort of necessary to support his position at work, so he doesn't feel free to skip it. But he can't be going out every night, so he's trying to give you the most face-saving excuse he can come up with.
It's interesting that the question you ask is not "what's going on with my buddy, and how can I help him?" but "isn't my friend being annoying, frustrating and disrespectful?" Your focus is on how your friend's behavior affects you, not on trying to understand what's really going on with him. The people who are your friends have problems, priorities and preferences of their own, and these will sometimes be inconvenient for you. That's not disrespectful. Try hard to understand this from his point of view, and take it from there.
posted by Corvid at 12:31 PM on July 28, 2011
Or maybe the socializing with people from work is something he sees as sort of necessary to support his position at work, so he doesn't feel free to skip it. But he can't be going out every night, so he's trying to give you the most face-saving excuse he can come up with.
It's interesting that the question you ask is not "what's going on with my buddy, and how can I help him?" but "isn't my friend being annoying, frustrating and disrespectful?" Your focus is on how your friend's behavior affects you, not on trying to understand what's really going on with him. The people who are your friends have problems, priorities and preferences of their own, and these will sometimes be inconvenient for you. That's not disrespectful. Try hard to understand this from his point of view, and take it from there.
posted by Corvid at 12:31 PM on July 28, 2011
I suspect that the hangovers are fictional. People often make up excuses that they think are unassailable in order to get out of doing something they don't want to do: in these cases, I'm sorry to say, it's hanging out with you.
I've had a friend for 20+ years who has has been there for me when I needed him 100% of the time, and with whom I've spent many wonderful times. But he does have an annoying habit of "getting a migraine" whenever he would like to wiggle out of some social engagement or other, and this has sometimes included me. So, yanno, at some point I just had to decide whether or not to take the bad with the good, and I just decided that our friendship wouldn't include my relying upon him to come through on minor social appointments. And, as a result, we don't see as much of each other as we might if he weren't flighty this way. Other people might have decided to drop him altogether. Depends on the person, I guess.
So this is not to say that so-and-so is jerk or a bad friend or doesn't like you or that you should stop being his friend or even that he's not capable of being a good friend to you. But it does suggest that you should stop counting on him to go out for happy hour with you tomorrow just because he said he would. This likely will involve a paradigm change of how you view the friendship, and perhaps may lead you to treat your commitments to minor social engagements with him as lightly as he does those with you. If you can both be okay with that, there's no reason you can't be pretty good friends.
One thing I would not recommend is confronting your friend with any of this. Just do what you're going to do.
posted by slkinsey at 12:39 PM on July 28, 2011
I've had a friend for 20+ years who has has been there for me when I needed him 100% of the time, and with whom I've spent many wonderful times. But he does have an annoying habit of "getting a migraine" whenever he would like to wiggle out of some social engagement or other, and this has sometimes included me. So, yanno, at some point I just had to decide whether or not to take the bad with the good, and I just decided that our friendship wouldn't include my relying upon him to come through on minor social appointments. And, as a result, we don't see as much of each other as we might if he weren't flighty this way. Other people might have decided to drop him altogether. Depends on the person, I guess.
So this is not to say that so-and-so is jerk or a bad friend or doesn't like you or that you should stop being his friend or even that he's not capable of being a good friend to you. But it does suggest that you should stop counting on him to go out for happy hour with you tomorrow just because he said he would. This likely will involve a paradigm change of how you view the friendship, and perhaps may lead you to treat your commitments to minor social engagements with him as lightly as he does those with you. If you can both be okay with that, there's no reason you can't be pretty good friends.
One thing I would not recommend is confronting your friend with any of this. Just do what you're going to do.
posted by slkinsey at 12:39 PM on July 28, 2011
You seem to be making the classic mistake of thinking you have to drink a liter of whiskey every night in order to have a drinking problem. Can you have a drinking problem on a once-a-week social drinking schedule? Absolutely.
Regularly being too hungover to eat dinner the next day sounds like a substantial issue to me, or at the very least bears investigating. And if your friend is, in fact, simply blowing you off, his attributing it to an alcohol problem is awfully curious.
posted by Nahum Tate at 12:47 PM on July 28, 2011
Regularly being too hungover to eat dinner the next day sounds like a substantial issue to me, or at the very least bears investigating. And if your friend is, in fact, simply blowing you off, his attributing it to an alcohol problem is awfully curious.
posted by Nahum Tate at 12:47 PM on July 28, 2011
Stop texting him and call him. When he answers, tell him to shut up about the hangover he got last night drinking too many appletinis, put his big boy pants on and get his ass out the door to have a proper drink. Every early 20's post college guy knows the only solution to a nasty hangover is to drink through it.
posted by IanMorr at 12:55 PM on July 28, 2011
posted by IanMorr at 12:55 PM on July 28, 2011
I think some of these answers are reading a bit too much into the situation. Going out drinking and, thus, these kinds of issues, are entirely common for people in their early 20s. I see no evidence that your friend has a serious drinking problem, or that he is deliberately avoiding you. That's not to say he doesn't, or isn't, but if what you say is true at face value there's little evidence to support either proposition.
Here's what I think is going on: I think he honestly does not realize how hungover he will get. This is a difficult thing to predict, as others have pointed out. It's also quite common for people who had never experienced hangovers before to start getting them in their 20s - it's possible that he has not adjusted yet.
This exact thing happened to me. All through college, and for a couple of years after, I could drink all I wanted and never get more than a mild headache the next day. I think I had been really hungover once, maybe twice, before my 24th birthday. Then, all of a sudden, I got three or four terrible, awful hangovers in the span of about six months. The last of these was on my 25th birthday, and it was then that I realized that my body was telling me to find something else to do on Friday night.
Don't get me wrong; I still drink. But I space it out and I seldom do shots. I get nice and toasty and leave it at that. I've learned that, at this point in my life, it's more important to me to be able to do things during the day than to get really drunk at night, and I can't do both.
It seems to me that there's a strong possibility that your friend needs to learn this lesson. He doesn't necessarily have a drinking problem, but it just may be time for him to start changing his habits. Trust me, it's OK if he does; I've been drunk plenty of times and, mostly, it's not that great.
posted by breakin' the law at 1:02 PM on July 28, 2011
Here's what I think is going on: I think he honestly does not realize how hungover he will get. This is a difficult thing to predict, as others have pointed out. It's also quite common for people who had never experienced hangovers before to start getting them in their 20s - it's possible that he has not adjusted yet.
This exact thing happened to me. All through college, and for a couple of years after, I could drink all I wanted and never get more than a mild headache the next day. I think I had been really hungover once, maybe twice, before my 24th birthday. Then, all of a sudden, I got three or four terrible, awful hangovers in the span of about six months. The last of these was on my 25th birthday, and it was then that I realized that my body was telling me to find something else to do on Friday night.
Don't get me wrong; I still drink. But I space it out and I seldom do shots. I get nice and toasty and leave it at that. I've learned that, at this point in my life, it's more important to me to be able to do things during the day than to get really drunk at night, and I can't do both.
It seems to me that there's a strong possibility that your friend needs to learn this lesson. He doesn't necessarily have a drinking problem, but it just may be time for him to start changing his habits. Trust me, it's OK if he does; I've been drunk plenty of times and, mostly, it's not that great.
posted by breakin' the law at 1:02 PM on July 28, 2011
This is probably not the case, but it's possible he's depressed; if I cancel plans or don't get in touch with people it's usually because either I feel sick or the idea of leaving the house seems overwhelming. If he's going out with his coworkers this doesn't seem likely and there's nothing in your question to indicate this but it might be worth thinking about.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 1:11 PM on July 28, 2011
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 1:11 PM on July 28, 2011
Next time you guys make plans (let him initiate them), tell him you hope he's not going to bail on you again because even a hangover isn't a good reason for leaving you hanging last minute. You can be nice about it but wtf, he can't keep doing it - yeah, those things happen, especially in early 20s, but it's annoying and disrespectful to you.
Really, it doesn't matter if he is or isn't hungover or what the situation is - you're letting him repeatedly bail last minute with no consequences. You should at least mention it. And then let him show he wants ot keep the friendship going - if he's making excuses or choosing not to hang out with you, then you'll know.
NB - if you guys hang out a lot and infrequently he bails like that, then get over it. My comments assume you guys are not super close and do not hang out often and that the times he bails are significant.
posted by mrs. taters at 1:47 PM on July 28, 2011
Really, it doesn't matter if he is or isn't hungover or what the situation is - you're letting him repeatedly bail last minute with no consequences. You should at least mention it. And then let him show he wants ot keep the friendship going - if he's making excuses or choosing not to hang out with you, then you'll know.
NB - if you guys hang out a lot and infrequently he bails like that, then get over it. My comments assume you guys are not super close and do not hang out often and that the times he bails are significant.
posted by mrs. taters at 1:47 PM on July 28, 2011
NB - if you guys hang out a lot and infrequently he bails like that, then get over it. My comments assume you guys are not super close and do not hang out often and that the times he bails are significant.
Based on the OP's comments, I had assumed they were close friends and hung out pretty often. If that's not the case, it does change the issue.
posted by breakin' the law at 1:56 PM on July 28, 2011
Based on the OP's comments, I had assumed they were close friends and hung out pretty often. If that's not the case, it does change the issue.
posted by breakin' the law at 1:56 PM on July 28, 2011
He's trying to get rid of you, and he's trying to make sure you feel insulted in the process.
If he wanted to get rid of you but not insult you, he would stop making plans with you.
Failing that, he would at least make an excuse that doesn't make it clear you are a lower priority than other pedestrian activities that he could do any time. Pretend his grandmother... er, his step-grandmother... well they're not related but he was really close to her growing up... popped her socks yesterday, that kind of thing.
If by some chance he is not trying to get rid of you and is genuinely getting hangovers, he still deserves to pay the cost of making you feel blown off.
posted by tel3path at 2:06 PM on July 28, 2011
If he wanted to get rid of you but not insult you, he would stop making plans with you.
Failing that, he would at least make an excuse that doesn't make it clear you are a lower priority than other pedestrian activities that he could do any time. Pretend his grandmother... er, his step-grandmother... well they're not related but he was really close to her growing up... popped her socks yesterday, that kind of thing.
If by some chance he is not trying to get rid of you and is genuinely getting hangovers, he still deserves to pay the cost of making you feel blown off.
posted by tel3path at 2:06 PM on July 28, 2011
Give him another chance. It's only been three times. Good friends give each other some slack. Depending on how close you are, no need to overanalyze this yet.
posted by SurrenderMonkey at 3:01 PM on July 28, 2011
posted by SurrenderMonkey at 3:01 PM on July 28, 2011
If these are the only three times in the last however long it's been, and the same thing has happened each time, he's either lying to you, deliberately choosing to get wasted enough that he'll be too hungover to hang with you, or an alcoholic. Fuck him, I say.
But if you guys hang out fairly often and this is just three times you've loosely made plans and he's bailed, I would just forgive and deal with it/get over it. Especially since these are apparently his coworkers, and for professional reasons a lot of people find it important to fit in/be liked at work.
posted by J. Wilson at 5:11 PM on July 28, 2011
But if you guys hang out fairly often and this is just three times you've loosely made plans and he's bailed, I would just forgive and deal with it/get over it. Especially since these are apparently his coworkers, and for professional reasons a lot of people find it important to fit in/be liked at work.
posted by J. Wilson at 5:11 PM on July 28, 2011
Are you the one who makes the plans and invites him, or does he call you and invite you to stuff? I'm guessing it's the former- you're the one making the plans and if that's the case it sounds like he's blowing you off and using the hangover as an excuse. If not, maybe he's just a flake.
Stop inviting him to do stuff- if he contacts you and wants to get together, say yes but add a "hey, you better not bail like you did the last couple of times!"
posted by emd3737 at 6:38 PM on July 28, 2011
Stop inviting him to do stuff- if he contacts you and wants to get together, say yes but add a "hey, you better not bail like you did the last couple of times!"
posted by emd3737 at 6:38 PM on July 28, 2011
I'm surprised more people didn't mention what Mrs. Pterodactyl said: that possibly he's depressed or has some anxiety. I admit I've made the same excuse to people before when I felt too overwhelmed or tired to go out. Even to people that I like, and consider friends, and like spending time with. Especially if I've been socializing a lot lately. That's why the hangover is an easy excuse- if I was out the night before, then it's easier to just say "I'm hung over" than to say "spending all day yesterday socializing was really draining and I think I need to stay home tonight to recharge." Frankly, it's embarrassing for me to admit that.
To be fair, this is generally more of something I do when it's a big group- I'm more likely to flake because the idea of hanging out with a big group can be a little intimidating at times, and also because I know the more of them there are, the less likely it is that they will really miss me anyway. I try harder to keep plans when it's just me one-on-one with someone else. But luckily I have really understanding friends so on the occasions when I do have to bail, they don't give me a hard time about it. Now that I think of it, it's actually sort of an unspoken thing- I have never come right out and said that I can't make it to things for the aforementioned anxiety-type reasons. I just make a lame excuse and they are kind enough to simply accept it- they know me well enough that I am sure they know the real reason behind my occasional last-minute flakes. (unfortunately, they usually really are last minute, because i truly am planning to go- up until like an hour or two before i'm supposed to be there, and suddenly i start to feel uncomfortable and panicky.) anyway, i'm not saying this is necessarily the case with your friend, but it doesn't hurt to consider it. i am eternally grateful to my friends for being cool and understanding with me about this sort of thing, and love them for it more than they could possibly know- so i disagree with some of the posters here who are saying just because he cancels on you occasionally, it means he doesn't like you. (i mean, that may be the case. but i just wanted to point out that it may not be, necessarily.)
posted by GastrocNemesis at 10:46 PM on July 28, 2011
To be fair, this is generally more of something I do when it's a big group- I'm more likely to flake because the idea of hanging out with a big group can be a little intimidating at times, and also because I know the more of them there are, the less likely it is that they will really miss me anyway. I try harder to keep plans when it's just me one-on-one with someone else. But luckily I have really understanding friends so on the occasions when I do have to bail, they don't give me a hard time about it. Now that I think of it, it's actually sort of an unspoken thing- I have never come right out and said that I can't make it to things for the aforementioned anxiety-type reasons. I just make a lame excuse and they are kind enough to simply accept it- they know me well enough that I am sure they know the real reason behind my occasional last-minute flakes. (unfortunately, they usually really are last minute, because i truly am planning to go- up until like an hour or two before i'm supposed to be there, and suddenly i start to feel uncomfortable and panicky.) anyway, i'm not saying this is necessarily the case with your friend, but it doesn't hurt to consider it. i am eternally grateful to my friends for being cool and understanding with me about this sort of thing, and love them for it more than they could possibly know- so i disagree with some of the posters here who are saying just because he cancels on you occasionally, it means he doesn't like you. (i mean, that may be the case. but i just wanted to point out that it may not be, necessarily.)
posted by GastrocNemesis at 10:46 PM on July 28, 2011
I have a (female) friend who's always hungover when I want to hang out casually, but when I've got free tickets for things she's fine.
Thanks for clarifying things.
That said, sometimes stuff comes up. If there's a friend who I see a bunch of times and I've had a huge week then yeah, I will be too hungover. For real. I used the 'hangover' excuse to avoid seeing my family last weekend, but I really was a bit hungover and didn't want to get too far from home.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 12:36 AM on July 29, 2011
Thanks for clarifying things.
That said, sometimes stuff comes up. If there's a friend who I see a bunch of times and I've had a huge week then yeah, I will be too hungover. For real. I used the 'hangover' excuse to avoid seeing my family last weekend, but I really was a bit hungover and didn't want to get too far from home.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 12:36 AM on July 29, 2011
If he's blown you off three times in a row, he could have all sorts of underlying reasons for it, but his outward behaviour says he's trying to friend-dump you.
If an alcoholic always yells at me and says mean things in the mornings, because he hasn't had a drink during the hours he was asleep, it doesn't mean the person he is underneath doesn't like me, but that sure is what his outward behaviour is showing me.
I spent most of my life being trained not to take offence when people insult me, and to interpret hostile behaviour as though it were friendly because we all have our own struggles, right? Turns out that my struggle in life has been learning to take hostile behaviour at face value and trust that people who didn't mean to be hostile will eventually make that clear - with their outward behaviour - if I let them take the natural consequences of communicating hostility. In this case, the natural consequences would be that I assume he wants to end the friendship and I stop contacting him. If he surpassed my expectations, and contacted me and said "hey want to hang out tonight" I'd say, "no thanks, I'd like to in theory but we both know you're going to get hung over and blow me off at the last minute." Then he can either yell at you and tell you you're lying and selfish and un-understanding; or he can say "dude I'm really sorry, I didn't realize it bothered you so much, I'll try to make sure that never happens again."
posted by tel3path at 2:01 AM on July 29, 2011
If an alcoholic always yells at me and says mean things in the mornings, because he hasn't had a drink during the hours he was asleep, it doesn't mean the person he is underneath doesn't like me, but that sure is what his outward behaviour is showing me.
I spent most of my life being trained not to take offence when people insult me, and to interpret hostile behaviour as though it were friendly because we all have our own struggles, right? Turns out that my struggle in life has been learning to take hostile behaviour at face value and trust that people who didn't mean to be hostile will eventually make that clear - with their outward behaviour - if I let them take the natural consequences of communicating hostility. In this case, the natural consequences would be that I assume he wants to end the friendship and I stop contacting him. If he surpassed my expectations, and contacted me and said "hey want to hang out tonight" I'd say, "no thanks, I'd like to in theory but we both know you're going to get hung over and blow me off at the last minute." Then he can either yell at you and tell you you're lying and selfish and un-understanding; or he can say "dude I'm really sorry, I didn't realize it bothered you so much, I'll try to make sure that never happens again."
posted by tel3path at 2:01 AM on July 29, 2011
I don't think three times over a few months is that many if you've hung out between his hangovers. If these are the only plans you've made, then yeah, he's not that into you. Otherwise, give him a break.
posted by JLovebomb at 9:48 AM on July 29, 2011
posted by JLovebomb at 9:48 AM on July 29, 2011
If he's not telling you till the last minute, then of course it's an excuse; he would know all day that he had a hangover.
posted by tomboko at 5:37 PM on July 29, 2011
posted by tomboko at 5:37 PM on July 29, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by TheBones at 11:52 AM on July 28, 2011