How are so many crazy people able to get significant others?
July 19, 2011 10:34 PM Subscribe
How are so many crazy people able to get significant others?
[intentionally provocative] I mean, how is it that so many people with mental issues are to have boy friends, girl friends, husbands, wives, etc.?
The conventional wisdom is that being depressed, having anxiety, etc. is unattractive, and the conventional advice to people who have these things and who want a relationship is that they have to get over their issues first. But if you have lurked around AskMeFi you might have noticed there are a lot of "my boy friend is depressed, what can I do for him?" questions. With some people, it's clear that they knew what they were getting into from the start, that there were chronically troubled people.
So why did they get involved with them in the first place? Why did they bother to stick around? Is this an incredibly rare phenomena, or is the conventional wisdom "you need to love yourself before you can love anyone else" wrong?
The conventional wisdom is that being depressed, having anxiety, etc. is unattractive, and the conventional advice to people who have these things and who want a relationship is that they have to get over their issues first. But if you have lurked around AskMeFi you might have noticed there are a lot of "my boy friend is depressed, what can I do for him?" questions. With some people, it's clear that they knew what they were getting into from the start, that there were chronically troubled people.
So why did they get involved with them in the first place? Why did they bother to stick around? Is this an incredibly rare phenomena, or is the conventional wisdom "you need to love yourself before you can love anyone else" wrong?
This post was deleted for the following reason: I don't think being intentionally provocative is the best route to getting a question answered. -- vacapinta
So why did they get involved with them in the first place?
Because they didn't have mental problems then, or they weren't apparent?
Why did they bother to stick around?
Because you don't dump the people you love when they are in trouble?
posted by Dr Dracator at 10:39 PM on July 19, 2011
Because they didn't have mental problems then, or they weren't apparent?
Why did they bother to stick around?
Because you don't dump the people you love when they are in trouble?
posted by Dr Dracator at 10:39 PM on July 19, 2011
I think your idea of mental illness might be based on a lot of really negative, psychonormative stereotypes.
posted by illenion at 10:40 PM on July 19, 2011 [21 favorites]
posted by illenion at 10:40 PM on July 19, 2011 [21 favorites]
Lots of men are shallow and go for looks while overlooking personality defects.
posted by banished at 10:41 PM on July 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by banished at 10:41 PM on July 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
At the risk of being brash a lot of the time people with "mental disorders" are attractive. Perhaps an inordinate amount of them......
posted by lattiboy at 10:42 PM on July 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by lattiboy at 10:42 PM on July 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
People with mental health issues can also be loveable. Even more remarkable to me is that people who are just ordinary jerks find partners.
posted by rtha at 10:42 PM on July 19, 2011 [19 favorites]
posted by rtha at 10:42 PM on July 19, 2011 [19 favorites]
It is the money silly.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:45 PM on July 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:45 PM on July 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
They get involved with them for the same reason people get involved with anyone with a chronic illness of any kind. Having diabetes, depression, Crohn's, MS, etc., is not the defining characteristic of a person's being and is in no way the sum total of what a person brings to a relationship.
I mean, how do people who think it's appropriate to post intentionally provacative questions to Ask Metafilter get significant others? It's generally considered unattractive.
posted by jesourie at 10:46 PM on July 19, 2011 [6 favorites]
I mean, how do people who think it's appropriate to post intentionally provacative questions to Ask Metafilter get significant others? It's generally considered unattractive.
posted by jesourie at 10:46 PM on July 19, 2011 [6 favorites]
Lots of men are shallow and go for looks while overlooking personality defects.
posted by banished
You mean personality defects like shallowness?
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 10:50 PM on July 19, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by banished
You mean personality defects like shallowness?
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 10:50 PM on July 19, 2011 [3 favorites]
I seriously think it's that the other partner also has issues. For instance, low self esteem > thinking they can't do better. Or they're not attractive and literally can't do better.
posted by Patbon at 10:51 PM on July 19, 2011
posted by Patbon at 10:51 PM on July 19, 2011
I don't think people with mental issues are some weird kind of "other" -- anxiety/depression is more common than you think, and us weirdos who have it deserve love, too.
posted by sweetkid at 10:56 PM on July 19, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by sweetkid at 10:56 PM on July 19, 2011 [4 favorites]
Sometimes it's the partner not being able to deal with the person's personal difficulties. "Maybe it's my fault," 'Maybe I can change him/her," "Maybe it's just a phase."
During the first stages of attraction, those difficulties usually aren't apparent until later, and by then, the partner probably tries to talk his or herself into thinking that it's something less than it really is. They're too in love with the person's more positive aspects, and force themselves to see past or put up with the negative ones.
posted by TheSecretDecoderRing at 10:59 PM on July 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
During the first stages of attraction, those difficulties usually aren't apparent until later, and by then, the partner probably tries to talk his or herself into thinking that it's something less than it really is. They're too in love with the person's more positive aspects, and force themselves to see past or put up with the negative ones.
posted by TheSecretDecoderRing at 10:59 PM on July 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
I was going to date this chick but then I found out she had diabetes so I told her to give me a call when she had gotten over it,
posted by silby at 11:08 PM on July 19, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by silby at 11:08 PM on July 19, 2011 [3 favorites]
The conventional wisdom is that being depressed, having anxiety, etc. is unattractive, and the conventional advice to people who have these things and who want a relationship is that they have to get over their issues first.
Well, I couldn't tell you about depression, but I've had anxiety on and off since the age of 10, when it was extremely severe and lasted several years. Since my teens I've had periods of years where it's been at a 0, and periods of weeks or months where it's been a 7 or 8.
And it's a problem for some people and not at all a problem for others. There have been some people who didn't care, some people who found it logistically difficult or annoying. I'm sure there are some people who would find it to be flatly unattractive. But I had one boyfriend who I met when I was in the peak of the longest, worst period I've had in adulthood, and for some reason it was just... actually almost a positive even though that's bizarre to say. There are some guys who just find vulnerability really endearing (of course, a lot of creeps do too so you have to watch out for that). But my boyfriend at the time just... I could tell that he almost felt fulfilled in a way by taking care of me, by making me feel safe, protecting me, being there to lean on so I could do the things I had to do. That's a quality that I think of as more common in females, but he just happened to have it. We broke up for other reasons, but my anxiety at that time wasn't *at all* one of them.
posted by Ashley801 at 11:11 PM on July 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
Well, I couldn't tell you about depression, but I've had anxiety on and off since the age of 10, when it was extremely severe and lasted several years. Since my teens I've had periods of years where it's been at a 0, and periods of weeks or months where it's been a 7 or 8.
And it's a problem for some people and not at all a problem for others. There have been some people who didn't care, some people who found it logistically difficult or annoying. I'm sure there are some people who would find it to be flatly unattractive. But I had one boyfriend who I met when I was in the peak of the longest, worst period I've had in adulthood, and for some reason it was just... actually almost a positive even though that's bizarre to say. There are some guys who just find vulnerability really endearing (of course, a lot of creeps do too so you have to watch out for that). But my boyfriend at the time just... I could tell that he almost felt fulfilled in a way by taking care of me, by making me feel safe, protecting me, being there to lean on so I could do the things I had to do. That's a quality that I think of as more common in females, but he just happened to have it. We broke up for other reasons, but my anxiety at that time wasn't *at all* one of them.
posted by Ashley801 at 11:11 PM on July 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
I do not think you know what these words mean and how mind bogglingly offensive it is to refer to people with mental health problems as 'chronically troubled'.
I have severe depression, which comes in cycles and episodes. This does not scupper my identity, or challenge my ability to mark meaningful connections to others. I am an artist, an academic, a wife, a daughter, a sister, a best friend, a trusted advisor, a supporter of students, a writer and a human being. Please do not talk about my condition as chronically troubled, I do not view it any differently than my need to wear glasses. I love and am loved, just as we all are and can be.
posted by Augenblick at 11:17 PM on July 19, 2011 [8 favorites]
I have severe depression, which comes in cycles and episodes. This does not scupper my identity, or challenge my ability to mark meaningful connections to others. I am an artist, an academic, a wife, a daughter, a sister, a best friend, a trusted advisor, a supporter of students, a writer and a human being. Please do not talk about my condition as chronically troubled, I do not view it any differently than my need to wear glasses. I love and am loved, just as we all are and can be.
posted by Augenblick at 11:17 PM on July 19, 2011 [8 favorites]
I don't think this a wholly illegitimate question, but I'd draw a distinction between people who are going through rough patches, or who suffer from anxiety/depression/etc but are still basically good people, and people who are crazy in ways that are really destructive to those around them.
The former...hey, we've all got problems. The latter...I honestly think there is something to the idea that sociopaths and narcissists can be very charming at first.
posted by breakin' the law at 11:18 PM on July 19, 2011 [3 favorites]
The former...hey, we've all got problems. The latter...I honestly think there is something to the idea that sociopaths and narcissists can be very charming at first.
posted by breakin' the law at 11:18 PM on July 19, 2011 [3 favorites]
Sometimes relationships are maintained on the quality of the sex alone. In my experience, "crazy people" make for poor communicators and excellent lovers.
posted by troll at 11:34 PM on July 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by troll at 11:34 PM on July 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
People with disorders behave in unexpected ways. Often this is spontaneous and by proxy attractive.
You know it's a self defeating question though.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 11:40 PM on July 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
You know it's a self defeating question though.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 11:40 PM on July 19, 2011 [2 favorites]
For me it was a combination of the positive and negative answers. There is a mentally ill person I cared for very deeply because the illness was simply part of her - it didn't define her. She was lovely, caring, gentle, etc and she fought hard against the illness.
There was another girl I dated who had very intrusive issues, but she was also very attractive. There's an Onion article about girls like that, but linking it would lower the tone.
These were serious issues, though. I don't consider depression and anxiety on that level. Everybody has issues. If you've got them under control or know how to deal with them it shouldn't impact negatively.
Or, to put it another way: Stephen Fry has bipolar disorder. Do you think he has a problem attracting men?
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 11:43 PM on July 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
There was another girl I dated who had very intrusive issues, but she was also very attractive. There's an Onion article about girls like that, but linking it would lower the tone.
These were serious issues, though. I don't consider depression and anxiety on that level. Everybody has issues. If you've got them under control or know how to deal with them it shouldn't impact negatively.
Or, to put it another way: Stephen Fry has bipolar disorder. Do you think he has a problem attracting men?
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 11:43 PM on July 19, 2011 [1 favorite]
I am much more surprised that boring people find life partners. Okay, so this one hypothetical lady is periodically depressed or whatever. She also knows a lot of things about seals! And she has a bizarre hobby where she categorizes local bacteria! Then there's this other hypothetical lady who's very mentally steady and whose main life interest is watching The Bachelor and showing you her new cat calendar.
Everybody deserves love - everybody - but of the two hypothetical ladies, I am much more amazed that the second person found a longterm relationship. Of course this reflects my own bias toward boring being The Worst. Perhaps your personal bias has to do with craziness. I don't think that's necessarily so terrible, but I guess I think that different people are going to have different priorities in terms of what kind of flaws are acceptable and which are immediate dealbreakers.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 11:43 PM on July 19, 2011 [3 favorites]
Everybody deserves love - everybody - but of the two hypothetical ladies, I am much more amazed that the second person found a longterm relationship. Of course this reflects my own bias toward boring being The Worst. Perhaps your personal bias has to do with craziness. I don't think that's necessarily so terrible, but I guess I think that different people are going to have different priorities in terms of what kind of flaws are acceptable and which are immediate dealbreakers.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 11:43 PM on July 19, 2011 [3 favorites]
This question is fucking CRAZY! Luckily, it's 2:43 am eastern time...so this thread will enjoy some love until moderators wake up and realize there's some CRAZY going on. Then we'll see if the moderators want to stick around with the crazy for the sex or cut their losses and just DTMFCRAZYA.
posted by spicynuts at 11:44 PM on July 19, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by spicynuts at 11:44 PM on July 19, 2011 [5 favorites]
the conventional advice to people who have these things and who want a relationship is that they have to get over their issues first
If by "get over" you mean "acknowledge constructively" than sure, that is conventional advice.
But usually "get over" means "stop having," which isn't a very relationshipy convention to hold.
posted by desuetude at 12:05 AM on July 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
If by "get over" you mean "acknowledge constructively" than sure, that is conventional advice.
But usually "get over" means "stop having," which isn't a very relationshipy convention to hold.
posted by desuetude at 12:05 AM on July 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
The conventional wisdom is that being depressed, having anxiety, etc. is unattractive, and the conventional advice to people who have these things and who want a relationship is that they have to get over their issues first.
This is a separate issue. For people (okay, me circa a few years ago) there's the idea that being in a relationship will magically fix everything that's wrong with them. Those people sometimes need to be told that, nope, you fix yourself a bit first and then you can get in a relationship. But while you're working on yourself people might still dig you.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 12:06 AM on July 20, 2011 [1 favorite]
Data point: I'm bipolar. I also have anxiety issues. By anyone's definition, this is probably pretty crazy.
But I'm happily married. I have an awesome kid who's normal and well-adjusted. I'm reasonably intelligent, I'm occasionally funny. I'm a shitty housekeeper, but I'm a good cook. I manage the finances in our household, and while I can't say that every bill gets paid on time, they all get there eventually--we've never had our power cut or anything like that. I knit. I don't exercise because I'm lazy and find it anxiety-inducing. I can carry a hundred-plus pounds of stuff around if I have to. Sometimes I struggle to get out of bed in the morning. I have a decent sex life, though I have to work at it. Sometimes I can only sleep for an hour or two a night. I can plan shit like you wouldn't believe, and have no problem pulling off a party for thirty people on an hour's notice.
Which is to say that I'm crazy and depressed and, to use your words, "chronically troubled", but I'm also a human being with feelings and interests and a personality, and some people find my company enjoyable despite my crazy. It doesn't sound like you would be one of them, but judging from this question, I wouldn't be all that keen on you, either.
According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, in 2009, 20% of Americans had some sort of mental illness; 5% of Americans had a serious mental illness that caused "serious functional impairment". This is a huge minority of the population--for comparison, that's 1.5x as many mentally ill people as there are African-American people (12.6% in the 2010 census); probably more than twice as many mentally ill people as there are gay people; approximately as many mentally ill people as there are non-Christian people. (All percentages are of the American population.)
The vast majority of those people lead pretty normal lives--so normal, in many cases, that you're probably totally unaware that they're mentally ill. It's harder for them than it is for a neurotypical person, but that doesn't mean that their lives are unmitigated misery and awfulness. My life's pretty awesome. I work really, really hard at keeping it that way--at keeping myself stable and controlling the craziest parts of the crazy, at balancing meds and lifestyle, at communicating things in a functional and constructive manner. And sometimes I fail at all of that and freak out and am convinced that my life is awful and I'm a failure as a human being--but eventually, with help, I find my way back to Hey, this is pretty great. Because crazy or no, I figure that this is all we get, so I may as well enjoy it as best I can.
posted by MeghanC at 12:08 AM on July 20, 2011 [6 favorites]
But I'm happily married. I have an awesome kid who's normal and well-adjusted. I'm reasonably intelligent, I'm occasionally funny. I'm a shitty housekeeper, but I'm a good cook. I manage the finances in our household, and while I can't say that every bill gets paid on time, they all get there eventually--we've never had our power cut or anything like that. I knit. I don't exercise because I'm lazy and find it anxiety-inducing. I can carry a hundred-plus pounds of stuff around if I have to. Sometimes I struggle to get out of bed in the morning. I have a decent sex life, though I have to work at it. Sometimes I can only sleep for an hour or two a night. I can plan shit like you wouldn't believe, and have no problem pulling off a party for thirty people on an hour's notice.
Which is to say that I'm crazy and depressed and, to use your words, "chronically troubled", but I'm also a human being with feelings and interests and a personality, and some people find my company enjoyable despite my crazy. It doesn't sound like you would be one of them, but judging from this question, I wouldn't be all that keen on you, either.
According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, in 2009, 20% of Americans had some sort of mental illness; 5% of Americans had a serious mental illness that caused "serious functional impairment". This is a huge minority of the population--for comparison, that's 1.5x as many mentally ill people as there are African-American people (12.6% in the 2010 census); probably more than twice as many mentally ill people as there are gay people; approximately as many mentally ill people as there are non-Christian people. (All percentages are of the American population.)
The vast majority of those people lead pretty normal lives--so normal, in many cases, that you're probably totally unaware that they're mentally ill. It's harder for them than it is for a neurotypical person, but that doesn't mean that their lives are unmitigated misery and awfulness. My life's pretty awesome. I work really, really hard at keeping it that way--at keeping myself stable and controlling the craziest parts of the crazy, at balancing meds and lifestyle, at communicating things in a functional and constructive manner. And sometimes I fail at all of that and freak out and am convinced that my life is awful and I'm a failure as a human being--but eventually, with help, I find my way back to Hey, this is pretty great. Because crazy or no, I figure that this is all we get, so I may as well enjoy it as best I can.
posted by MeghanC at 12:08 AM on July 20, 2011 [6 favorites]
You are mixing up two entirely different things in your question.
Look, when someone says their ex was "Crazy", or their girlfriend is "crazy", they don't mean the person is depressed or has anxiety issues.
"Crazy" in a positive tone, referring to someone the speaker is in a relationship with = the person is "wild and crazy", life of the party, possibly gets drunk and does exciting and unpredictable things, and the speaker would like you to know that they are having lots of awesome wild OMFG sex without being quite that explicit about it.
"I broke up with my ex because he/she was crazy" = the person did too many unpredictable things, too often, and it wasn't worth it to me to (pick one or more) get arrested/replace my breakable possessions/have so many weird arguments/get punched in the face/etc to stay in the relationship.
"My ex IS crazy" = ex is stalking me, called the police a few times, having them show up at my house in the middle of the night drunk scares me, and I'm considering getting a restraining order. I wish I hadn't had post-breakup OMFG sex with that person. I'm not dating anyone because I'm afraid my ex will hurt them or vandalize my house or car if they find out.
People get involved with crazy people because they are very exciting, and often they break up with crazy people because they are very exciting. In the context of dating, "Crazy" is not generally meant to refer to any specific diagnosed mental illness (at least as I hear the term used in my little corner of the world). It's generally used to mean something like "wild" or "scary" or "exciting" or "I had to call the police".
Anxiety or depression have nothing whatsoever to do with crazy. I don't recall ever seeing a single question where someone asking for help with an SO's anxiety or depression called them crazy.
Some people don't like your question, because it is insulting and stigmatizing to call a person with anxiety or depression "crazy".
Why do people get involved with the sort of person who might suddenly do some sort of unpredictable "crazy" thing? Pathological fear of boredom. The unpredictability of not being able to have any sort of expectation as to whether your SO will greet you at the door with a wild sex act, or greet you at the door screaming in your face about something you supposedly did seems to really appeal to some people (mostly men, or so it seems to me -- YMMV).
Why do people get involved with someone dealing with anxiety or depression? They probably like to deal with nice sane people with ordinary problems.
posted by yohko at 12:34 AM on July 20, 2011 [4 favorites]
Look, when someone says their ex was "Crazy", or their girlfriend is "crazy", they don't mean the person is depressed or has anxiety issues.
"Crazy" in a positive tone, referring to someone the speaker is in a relationship with = the person is "wild and crazy", life of the party, possibly gets drunk and does exciting and unpredictable things, and the speaker would like you to know that they are having lots of awesome wild OMFG sex without being quite that explicit about it.
"I broke up with my ex because he/she was crazy" = the person did too many unpredictable things, too often, and it wasn't worth it to me to (pick one or more) get arrested/replace my breakable possessions/have so many weird arguments/get punched in the face/etc to stay in the relationship.
"My ex IS crazy" = ex is stalking me, called the police a few times, having them show up at my house in the middle of the night drunk scares me, and I'm considering getting a restraining order. I wish I hadn't had post-breakup OMFG sex with that person. I'm not dating anyone because I'm afraid my ex will hurt them or vandalize my house or car if they find out.
People get involved with crazy people because they are very exciting, and often they break up with crazy people because they are very exciting. In the context of dating, "Crazy" is not generally meant to refer to any specific diagnosed mental illness (at least as I hear the term used in my little corner of the world). It's generally used to mean something like "wild" or "scary" or "exciting" or "I had to call the police".
Anxiety or depression have nothing whatsoever to do with crazy. I don't recall ever seeing a single question where someone asking for help with an SO's anxiety or depression called them crazy.
Some people don't like your question, because it is insulting and stigmatizing to call a person with anxiety or depression "crazy".
Why do people get involved with the sort of person who might suddenly do some sort of unpredictable "crazy" thing? Pathological fear of boredom. The unpredictability of not being able to have any sort of expectation as to whether your SO will greet you at the door with a wild sex act, or greet you at the door screaming in your face about something you supposedly did seems to really appeal to some people (mostly men, or so it seems to me -- YMMV).
Why do people get involved with someone dealing with anxiety or depression? They probably like to deal with nice sane people with ordinary problems.
posted by yohko at 12:34 AM on July 20, 2011 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by BozoBurgerBonanza at 10:38 PM on July 19, 2011 [18 favorites]