Loose Canon
June 28, 2011 9:35 PM Subscribe
I think it's officially time for a new Canon SLR body, but I don't want to pay for what I do not need/want.
So, Canon SLR body. No debate on changing brands.
I've owned a Canon Digital Rebels [300D] since it came out in 2003. I'm finally ready/wanting to buy a newer model, because I want:
-much faster rapid succession shots. Or even faster single shots [lots of lag]
-to be rid of some of the wonkiness that exists in low light places.
I DO NOT particularly need:
-3425 megapixels, but that's likely not an option.
-video capability
-45 focus points
[My film camera is a ancient minolta body that probably weighs 20lbs and only has a light meter.] I don't expect to be able to keep the new camera forever, but I also don't want to purchase a camera I grow out of too quickly. AKA, maybe I WILL want all those features I said I don't care about?
Assume my max price-wise is the 7D [$1500].
tl;dr:
1. Which Canon digital SLR should I buy? Why?
2. What do you think is my sweetspot between price and awesome cool functions that might be worth it?
3. Do you know where to get the best buy (beyond B&H, Amazon, other totally usual suspects)?
When taking photographs, I mostly shoot things that don't move, although I also want to use it at social gathering, inside, etc, where the ambient lighting bites. [Yes, I have an external flash an bouncer, etc, etc]
So, Canon SLR body. No debate on changing brands.
I've owned a Canon Digital Rebels [300D] since it came out in 2003. I'm finally ready/wanting to buy a newer model, because I want:
-much faster rapid succession shots. Or even faster single shots [lots of lag]
-to be rid of some of the wonkiness that exists in low light places.
I DO NOT particularly need:
-3425 megapixels, but that's likely not an option.
-video capability
-45 focus points
[My film camera is a ancient minolta body that probably weighs 20lbs and only has a light meter.] I don't expect to be able to keep the new camera forever, but I also don't want to purchase a camera I grow out of too quickly. AKA, maybe I WILL want all those features I said I don't care about?
Assume my max price-wise is the 7D [$1500].
tl;dr:
1. Which Canon digital SLR should I buy? Why?
2. What do you think is my sweetspot between price and awesome cool functions that might be worth it?
3. Do you know where to get the best buy (beyond B&H, Amazon, other totally usual suspects)?
When taking photographs, I mostly shoot things that don't move, although I also want to use it at social gathering, inside, etc, where the ambient lighting bites. [Yes, I have an external flash an bouncer, etc, etc]
Seconding the possibility of a used 5d.
One big factor that differentiates the SLRs is the size and type of the sensor. A bigger CMOS sensor produces less noise in low light, and more usable shots at high ISO. If you want to shoot low light stuff (be it things like clubs or gritty city night scenes, or landscapes), you'll appreciate that. Aside from the 1-series cameras, which I don't follow bc I can't afford them, the 5d and the 5dII still have the best sensor, better than the 7d noise-wise. Or maybe about the same. The 5dII is bestest and I wish I had bought one when they came out!
Also, as j03 mentions, do you want a full frame sensor (your 15mm lense is actually a 15) or do you want a sensor that's smaller, so it effectively crops your picture for you, making your 15mm lense look like a 22ish mm lense? Also, if you already have any EF-S lenses, they won't work on any full frame camera.
The 5d will feel like a brick compared to your rebels though. ;-)
Your best bargain is almost always at Amazon. B&H isn't far behind though.
posted by bluesky78987 at 10:12 PM on June 28, 2011
One big factor that differentiates the SLRs is the size and type of the sensor. A bigger CMOS sensor produces less noise in low light, and more usable shots at high ISO. If you want to shoot low light stuff (be it things like clubs or gritty city night scenes, or landscapes), you'll appreciate that. Aside from the 1-series cameras, which I don't follow bc I can't afford them, the 5d and the 5dII still have the best sensor, better than the 7d noise-wise. Or maybe about the same. The 5dII is bestest and I wish I had bought one when they came out!
Also, as j03 mentions, do you want a full frame sensor (your 15mm lense is actually a 15) or do you want a sensor that's smaller, so it effectively crops your picture for you, making your 15mm lense look like a 22ish mm lense? Also, if you already have any EF-S lenses, they won't work on any full frame camera.
The 5d will feel like a brick compared to your rebels though. ;-)
Your best bargain is almost always at Amazon. B&H isn't far behind though.
posted by bluesky78987 at 10:12 PM on June 28, 2011
Mr. bedhead (a photographer by trade) says the t2i or the used 5d are the best options. He says the used 5d is preferable for your purposes, so look for that first.
posted by bedhead at 10:18 PM on June 28, 2011
posted by bedhead at 10:18 PM on June 28, 2011
Coming from the 300D you've got a lot of choices...
One route is to get a Rebel line body and then some nice glass - though if you have EF mount lenses (which you probably do) they will still work with what you get.
The last Rebel without video capability (not counting the side off-shoot Rebel XS) was the Rebel XSi. I own that as my back up camera still, it's a good camera.
The other route is to get one line up from that and get an XXD camera. I currently have the latest in that line, the 60D. However that has video capability (and a swivel screen which is handy for said capability). You could still get a 50D though which many still love.
I don't think you want to go all the way to a 7D, especially as you said you mostly shoot things that don't move. Any of the cameras I mentioned will already have a higher burst speed than your 300D, but burst speed is one of the main advantages of a 7D so it might be overkill for you.
Right now... I think I'd suggest 60D, the prices have just come down on them and you can find some nice package deals. For low light I suggest picking up a 50mm 1.8 in addition to the zoom that tends to come with the 60D package. Or just get the body alone and hunt for a good price on a 24-70L (I bought mine used) and call it a day. Some folks don't like the 60D because they felt it was not what they thought of as a worthy successor to the 50D in that the controls were different (which won't bother you since you never used an XXD line camera anyway), because the body of the camera is polycarbonite instead of magnesium alloy, and because it did not have Microadjust for lenses (which was a feature in other Canon Cameras like the 7D). These same folks didn't care about the added video capabilities. The 60D does, however have the built in ability to control off camera flash, which I find wonderfully useful. I use it with an old 420EX Flash with no problems.
If you don't, I'd still consider the camera, you might be interested in it down the road and it will be there for you. I have used it sparingly, but use the 60D for still shots with which I and my clients are quite happy.
For a full frame camera, as was noted, the 5D Mark II is tops, but out of your price range. There are rumors of a 5D Mark III which may make the Mark II drop in price, but I don't know if you want to hold your breath. The 5D classic is still a great camera but is getting a bit older, and also had had mirror problems (if you are buying it used, ask to see if the mirror repair was done in it, if so, that's a good thing, it not, you may need to have it done eventually).
posted by Fricka at 10:19 PM on June 28, 2011
One route is to get a Rebel line body and then some nice glass - though if you have EF mount lenses (which you probably do) they will still work with what you get.
The last Rebel without video capability (not counting the side off-shoot Rebel XS) was the Rebel XSi. I own that as my back up camera still, it's a good camera.
The other route is to get one line up from that and get an XXD camera. I currently have the latest in that line, the 60D. However that has video capability (and a swivel screen which is handy for said capability). You could still get a 50D though which many still love.
I don't think you want to go all the way to a 7D, especially as you said you mostly shoot things that don't move. Any of the cameras I mentioned will already have a higher burst speed than your 300D, but burst speed is one of the main advantages of a 7D so it might be overkill for you.
Right now... I think I'd suggest 60D, the prices have just come down on them and you can find some nice package deals. For low light I suggest picking up a 50mm 1.8 in addition to the zoom that tends to come with the 60D package. Or just get the body alone and hunt for a good price on a 24-70L (I bought mine used) and call it a day. Some folks don't like the 60D because they felt it was not what they thought of as a worthy successor to the 50D in that the controls were different (which won't bother you since you never used an XXD line camera anyway), because the body of the camera is polycarbonite instead of magnesium alloy, and because it did not have Microadjust for lenses (which was a feature in other Canon Cameras like the 7D). These same folks didn't care about the added video capabilities. The 60D does, however have the built in ability to control off camera flash, which I find wonderfully useful. I use it with an old 420EX Flash with no problems.
If you don't, I'd still consider the camera, you might be interested in it down the road and it will be there for you. I have used it sparingly, but use the 60D for still shots with which I and my clients are quite happy.
For a full frame camera, as was noted, the 5D Mark II is tops, but out of your price range. There are rumors of a 5D Mark III which may make the Mark II drop in price, but I don't know if you want to hold your breath. The 5D classic is still a great camera but is getting a bit older, and also had had mirror problems (if you are buying it used, ask to see if the mirror repair was done in it, if so, that's a good thing, it not, you may need to have it done eventually).
posted by Fricka at 10:19 PM on June 28, 2011
Yes, 5D all the way. A used 5D is going to be a bargain for what you're going to get. I've owned that, the 10D (3 of them) 50D, 7D, and 5DmkII and the 5D is the best of the bunch (aside from the Mark II, of course)
posted by blaneyphoto at 10:20 PM on June 28, 2011
posted by blaneyphoto at 10:20 PM on June 28, 2011
I have the 5Dmkii (although used mainly for video), and have used the 7D and the 60D, as well as numerous Rebels. I will just weigh in that the 60D is a solid camera, with great features, and a price $400 less than the 7D. I was taking some stills with the 60D in the midst of a commercial shoot the other day - responsive, fast bursts; great image (though I can see the sensor difference between it and my 5D); the fold-out screen is a nice feature, if for no other reason than the ability to fold it into the camera and prevent possible scratches or cracks.
Personally, the wide availability and low price of SD cards versus Compact Flash cards are another plus for the 60D. I know CF had its benefits, but I use SD cards for everything else in my professional digital video world without issue.
posted by shinynewnick at 10:27 PM on June 28, 2011
Personally, the wide availability and low price of SD cards versus Compact Flash cards are another plus for the 60D. I know CF had its benefits, but I use SD cards for everything else in my professional digital video world without issue.
posted by shinynewnick at 10:27 PM on June 28, 2011
In my first post in this thread, the line that was supposed to come before "If you don't, I'd still...":
"You said you don't care about video now, but you may find down the line that it might come in handy or that you might want to dabble in it."
I have other mistakes / typos in my post but I'll leave them be ;)
posted by Fricka at 10:28 PM on June 28, 2011
"You said you don't care about video now, but you may find down the line that it might come in handy or that you might want to dabble in it."
I have other mistakes / typos in my post but I'll leave them be ;)
posted by Fricka at 10:28 PM on June 28, 2011
Even the jump from the 300D to the 350D got rid of pretty much all of the lag. Any DSLR from the 350D onwards should be fast enough for you.
posted by zsazsa at 10:30 PM on June 28, 2011
posted by zsazsa at 10:30 PM on June 28, 2011
If you need great low-light capability, it would probably be a good idea to get the Rebel t2i recommended above (I haven't really tried it myself, but it seems to have the best ISO/price of the cameras inside your given budget) and invest the rest of your budget in a nice fast lens (or two), assuming, of course, that you don't already own any.
posted by daniel_charms at 11:56 PM on June 28, 2011
posted by daniel_charms at 11:56 PM on June 28, 2011
+1 on getting a big sensor; More bells and whistles tend to come with bigger sensor cameras, but the biggest differentiating factor is IMO that the pictures from a bigger sensr have a more magical quality. Vastly better low light pictures, and full-light pictures are somehow simply moreish when captured with more silicon.
posted by krilli at 12:47 AM on June 29, 2011
posted by krilli at 12:47 AM on June 29, 2011
As somebody who's considering a similar purchase, how does the low-light performance compare between the 5D, and newer-generation APS-C DSLRs such as the T2i, 60D, and 7D?
posted by schmod at 7:27 AM on June 29, 2011
posted by schmod at 7:27 AM on June 29, 2011
The 5D is still better, in my brief experience. The newer cameras are getting much better than their predecessors, but even the older full-frame ones are still ahead in performance.
posted by Magnakai at 7:34 AM on June 29, 2011
posted by Magnakai at 7:34 AM on June 29, 2011
Sorry, I should clarify that - vast experience with the 5D, but brief experience with the other mentioned cameras.
posted by Magnakai at 7:35 AM on June 29, 2011
posted by Magnakai at 7:35 AM on June 29, 2011
I upgraded from a 350D (XT) to a T2i last year and am very happy with it. I seriously considered the 7D for a while, but I just couldn't justify the added expense for my needs.
At the time I purchased it, the T2i's were hard to find in stock. I ended up buying from a local hhgregg because a) they had one and b) they were willing to price match the online guys.
posted by BurntHombre at 8:28 AM on June 29, 2011
At the time I purchased it, the T2i's were hard to find in stock. I ended up buying from a local hhgregg because a) they had one and b) they were willing to price match the online guys.
posted by BurntHombre at 8:28 AM on June 29, 2011
There's no need to guess about low light (or high ISO setting) noise performance, check out the comparison shots in any review on "The Digital Picture". Here's the 60D review with a bazillion comparison shots between various bodies (link). This chart doesnt have the original 5D, but some of the other body reviews do include that model.
Mental notes should be made when comparing image noise between full frame camera sensors and 1.6x camera sensors - it is not apples to apples after all.
Go try out some XXXD series cameras in a store and compare them to some XXD cameras in store. Most rebels get 3 or so frames per second and most XXD cameras get 5 or so.
posted by kenbennedy at 8:44 AM on June 29, 2011
Mental notes should be made when comparing image noise between full frame camera sensors and 1.6x camera sensors - it is not apples to apples after all.
Go try out some XXXD series cameras in a store and compare them to some XXD cameras in store. Most rebels get 3 or so frames per second and most XXD cameras get 5 or so.
posted by kenbennedy at 8:44 AM on June 29, 2011
The 5D has great image quality, but in low light it doesn't have any advantage over a 40/50/60/7D and the AF and shot-to-shot speed isn't as fast. It's a good portrait/landscape camera, but for shooting faster stuff and lugging around I'd go with a used XXD. I'd probably not buy new, since it's not like these things wear out very quickly.
Honestly, you can't really go wrong. All the XD and XXD bodies after the 30D are going to blow your mind after the 300D.
posted by pjaust at 10:51 AM on June 29, 2011
Honestly, you can't really go wrong. All the XD and XXD bodies after the 30D are going to blow your mind after the 300D.
posted by pjaust at 10:51 AM on June 29, 2011
Used 40D for the best all-around value. Use the excess money from your proposed budget to buy good glass worth keeping.
The 40D gives you weather sealing, live view, automatic sensor cleaning, better fps and low light ability. The 50D isn't much of a plus over the 40D - it adds some pointless megapixels and the ability to microadjust. The 60D is a perfectly good camera, but the body's plastic, the weather sealing's gone, the microadjustments are gone, and if you don't need video or a flippy-screen, then you're paying a premium for something you don't want.
Used 5D for full frame-y goodness, but without any real advantage with regard to fps. No weather sealing. No live view. No automatic sensor cleaning. High ISO performance is better than the 300D, but nothing to write home about - the full frame sensor has much less noise at high ISOs, but the dynamic range isn't all that great at ISO 1600+. It really is a great camera, though.
T2i/550D for best value new Canon camera. It's a slick package for the money.
posted by Sticherbeast at 11:11 AM on June 29, 2011
The 40D gives you weather sealing, live view, automatic sensor cleaning, better fps and low light ability. The 50D isn't much of a plus over the 40D - it adds some pointless megapixels and the ability to microadjust. The 60D is a perfectly good camera, but the body's plastic, the weather sealing's gone, the microadjustments are gone, and if you don't need video or a flippy-screen, then you're paying a premium for something you don't want.
Used 5D for full frame-y goodness, but without any real advantage with regard to fps. No weather sealing. No live view. No automatic sensor cleaning. High ISO performance is better than the 300D, but nothing to write home about - the full frame sensor has much less noise at high ISOs, but the dynamic range isn't all that great at ISO 1600+. It really is a great camera, though.
T2i/550D for best value new Canon camera. It's a slick package for the money.
posted by Sticherbeast at 11:11 AM on June 29, 2011
I agree that the dynamic range isn't that hot at ISO 1600, but the low noise on the 5D is really, genuinely useful. DxO Mark pegs it as the 10th best camera for high ISO, which isn't bad for a 6 years old. Also, in real-world usage, I've found the high ISO detail to be superior to the no. 7 camera, the 1Ds MkII.
posted by Magnakai at 1:30 PM on June 29, 2011
posted by Magnakai at 1:30 PM on June 29, 2011
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Much cheaper than the 7D with many of the same features, but no weather sealing and a smaller, less rugged, more plasticy body.
Only difference with the t3i is the swivel screen which you may or may not care about but is probably a really nice feature to have.
Another potential would be a used 5D (mark 1). Wouldn't have video, but you didn't mention that anyway. Would have less megapixels than the t2i but it's full frame. Unless you're heavily invested in ef-s lenses.
B&H is always the best buy.
posted by j03 at 9:58 PM on June 28, 2011