It just breaks my heart when she cries...
June 26, 2011 5:27 PM Subscribe
Mommies and daddies: what do you say to yourself when your baby is crying and you know you have to just let her do it for her own good, but it just breaks your heart?
My daughter is almost 10 months old and I've never really let her cry in her crib for more than, say, 5 minutes. I can ignore the whining, angry noises and fake cries, which kind of come in waves, but the more sustained 'ok mommy, I really am sad that you're not letting me play anymore' cries are kryptonite to me.
I'm afraid this thread could go badly unless I really emphasize that I trust my instincts as a mother and I sense that she's absolutely ready for us to let her cry when we put her down in the crib and she doesn't want to be put to bed. I've tried recently to let her cry, but I seem to lose heart pretty quickly. I end up picking her up and letting her play again until she's falling asleep at the wheel, so to speak.
I feel like I need a few things that I can repeat to myself during the crying - things will help me through or remind me that I have to let her learn that she can't always have her way. A mommy mantra. Please help!
My daughter is almost 10 months old and I've never really let her cry in her crib for more than, say, 5 minutes. I can ignore the whining, angry noises and fake cries, which kind of come in waves, but the more sustained 'ok mommy, I really am sad that you're not letting me play anymore' cries are kryptonite to me.
I'm afraid this thread could go badly unless I really emphasize that I trust my instincts as a mother and I sense that she's absolutely ready for us to let her cry when we put her down in the crib and she doesn't want to be put to bed. I've tried recently to let her cry, but I seem to lose heart pretty quickly. I end up picking her up and letting her play again until she's falling asleep at the wheel, so to speak.
I feel like I need a few things that I can repeat to myself during the crying - things will help me through or remind me that I have to let her learn that she can't always have her way. A mommy mantra. Please help!
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's request -- restless_nomad
What I tell myself is that if I give in, it will just mean having this same fight tomorrow. The sooner my child realizes this is the way things are, the sooner he'll stop fighting me.
Also, what they want is not necessarily what they need.
posted by shopefowler at 5:35 PM on June 26, 2011 [5 favorites]
Also, what they want is not necessarily what they need.
posted by shopefowler at 5:35 PM on June 26, 2011 [5 favorites]
There's always, "She won't remember a thing about this in a month."
It also helps to think about long term vs. short term consequences. Sure, she might be upset for as many as some tens of minutes. But that's better than hours of cranktiude, a lifetime of iffy sleep habits, or even cognitive impairment brought on by sleep deprivation. (Not that it sounds like that worst-case is what you have going on here, but it might help to steel you heart a little!)
posted by Andrhia at 5:39 PM on June 26, 2011
It also helps to think about long term vs. short term consequences. Sure, she might be upset for as many as some tens of minutes. But that's better than hours of cranktiude, a lifetime of iffy sleep habits, or even cognitive impairment brought on by sleep deprivation. (Not that it sounds like that worst-case is what you have going on here, but it might help to steel you heart a little!)
posted by Andrhia at 5:39 PM on June 26, 2011
Tell yourself that it's a small price to pay to have your life back a little. Right now she's just learning how to get her way.
posted by PSB at 5:40 PM on June 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by PSB at 5:40 PM on June 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah, she's safe, she's fed, she's not in physical pain, she's just ticked off and yelling about it in the only language she has.
Also, I love what shopfowler said above: what they want is not necessarily what they need. You're the mom. You know best what she needs right now.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 5:43 PM on June 26, 2011
Also, I love what shopfowler said above: what they want is not necessarily what they need. You're the mom. You know best what she needs right now.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 5:43 PM on June 26, 2011
We did graduated cry it out, which helped by letting both baby and mom/dad get used to what was happening (let them cry for 10 min, go pat their back, then let them cry for 15 or 20, then pat a back etc. until they are asleep). "Just a few more minutes" was one mantra, and "Tomorrow will be so much better" were helpful.
posted by goggie at 5:46 PM on June 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by goggie at 5:46 PM on June 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
You might try the following:
- Tell her, "I'll be back in 5 minutes to check on you."
- Set a timer for 5 minutes, and go somewhere where you won't hear her crying.
- Go back in, give her a pat or a kiss without taking her out of the crib, and tell her you'll be back to check on her again.
(Doesn't have to be 5 minutes -- you can increase it over time, or do whatever time works for you.) This might help both of you feel better, like you're not abandoning her.
posted by chickenmagazine at 5:46 PM on June 26, 2011
- Tell her, "I'll be back in 5 minutes to check on you."
- Set a timer for 5 minutes, and go somewhere where you won't hear her crying.
- Go back in, give her a pat or a kiss without taking her out of the crib, and tell her you'll be back to check on her again.
(Doesn't have to be 5 minutes -- you can increase it over time, or do whatever time works for you.) This might help both of you feel better, like you're not abandoning her.
posted by chickenmagazine at 5:46 PM on June 26, 2011
I used to just remind myself "I've met children whose parents never had the heart to let them be mad. I've met parents who never set rules that their children had to do things they didn't want to do. Those are some unpleasant children, who are ill-prepared for life. I don't want that for my daughter."
posted by KathrynT at 5:48 PM on June 26, 2011 [18 favorites]
posted by KathrynT at 5:48 PM on June 26, 2011 [18 favorites]
Turning down the sound on the monitor so it isn't so loud did wonders for us as well, as did busying ourselves with things. We also did a graduated cry it out sort of thing where we stayed in the room at first, right next to the crib and occasionally rubbed his back or said calming words (not continuously though), but did not pick him up unless he absolutely lost it, then moved across the room, thus being able to say calming words occasionally, but not do the back rubbing, then outside the room, and then out. It worked so well for us that after we moved across the room, we actually found he cried less when we just left. After a couple days all was settled and he was getting himself to sleep fairly quickly (now, at 2, he talks to himself and sings for possibly up to an hour before going to sleep, but that's a different issue).
posted by katers890 at 6:05 PM on June 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by katers890 at 6:05 PM on June 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
I don't know how committed you are to the crib thing, but when my daughter was that age, I just put her in a sling (the sort that you wear) and let her sleep there. When she started to hit the sleepy point, I'd just pop her in and then go about whatever I'd been doing. She conked out pretty quickly, and then depending on my mood I'd either lay her down somewhere or just leave her in the sling. Not practical for everyone, obviously, but it might be a way for the two of you to transition.
Alternatively, do you have a routine for when she goes down? Because I found that just popping mine into the crib didn't work so great, but rocking her for five minutes or so first worked just fine. Crying themselves to sleep isn't a necessity--it works great for some people, but it's not a one-size-fits-all deal. My daughter is eight now, and is well adjusted, happy, does well in school, and gets a lot of compliments on what a polite and capable child she is. I can count on one hand the number of times that she cried herself to sleep.
If letting her cry is making you uncomfortable, it's probably worth considering other ways to do things. It doesn't make you a better or a worse parent to do so.
posted by MeghanC at 6:14 PM on June 26, 2011 [4 favorites]
Alternatively, do you have a routine for when she goes down? Because I found that just popping mine into the crib didn't work so great, but rocking her for five minutes or so first worked just fine. Crying themselves to sleep isn't a necessity--it works great for some people, but it's not a one-size-fits-all deal. My daughter is eight now, and is well adjusted, happy, does well in school, and gets a lot of compliments on what a polite and capable child she is. I can count on one hand the number of times that she cried herself to sleep.
If letting her cry is making you uncomfortable, it's probably worth considering other ways to do things. It doesn't make you a better or a worse parent to do so.
posted by MeghanC at 6:14 PM on June 26, 2011 [4 favorites]
When we were doing cry it out, my mantra was "he's fed, he's dry, he's just really, really tired and he needs to sleep."
He's 15 months old now, sleeps through the night probably 95% of the time, and he is happy, so happy. When we put him in his crib, he flips over, sticks his butt in the air and goes to sleep.
There are still some times when he cries when we put him down, but we know that he's tired and this is how he shows it.
posted by Leezie at 6:20 PM on June 26, 2011
He's 15 months old now, sleeps through the night probably 95% of the time, and he is happy, so happy. When we put him in his crib, he flips over, sticks his butt in the air and goes to sleep.
There are still some times when he cries when we put him down, but we know that he's tired and this is how he shows it.
posted by Leezie at 6:20 PM on June 26, 2011
It's good you're trusting your instincts. You most definitely know your child best and you know that if she wants to play when it's bedtime, it's not good for her in the long run. Anecdotally, my husband and I did modified cry-it-out with our two kids and they're both healthy, happy, well-adjusted young people who are fully attached to us. So, by letting her cry it out (modified - don't just leave her in there to cry for hours and hours), you're not abandoning her or neglecting her.
There isn't one parenting method that's inherently better than another (unless we're talking abuse or honest-to-goodness neglect that causes failure to thrive). If you're not into babywearing, that's okay. If you don't agree that co-sleeping is an option for you, that's okay. What you've decided to do, as your child's parent, is to let her figure out a way to comfort herself. I think that's okay, but more importantly, you think that's okay. What you need to do now is figure out a way for the cry-it-out method to work for the both of you (and your partner, if you have one). That'll have to come from you (what works for one family doesn't always work for another).
My mantra when my kids were little and I was losing my mind? "This, too, shall pass," and "The days are long, the years are short." Both of them are so, so true.
posted by cooker girl at 6:31 PM on June 26, 2011 [3 favorites]
There isn't one parenting method that's inherently better than another (unless we're talking abuse or honest-to-goodness neglect that causes failure to thrive). If you're not into babywearing, that's okay. If you don't agree that co-sleeping is an option for you, that's okay. What you've decided to do, as your child's parent, is to let her figure out a way to comfort herself. I think that's okay, but more importantly, you think that's okay. What you need to do now is figure out a way for the cry-it-out method to work for the both of you (and your partner, if you have one). That'll have to come from you (what works for one family doesn't always work for another).
My mantra when my kids were little and I was losing my mind? "This, too, shall pass," and "The days are long, the years are short." Both of them are so, so true.
posted by cooker girl at 6:31 PM on June 26, 2011 [3 favorites]
Mod note: It's ok to challenge the premise if you feel it's necessary, but please do it in a constructive way and not start a debate. Thanks!
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 6:36 PM on June 26, 2011
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 6:36 PM on June 26, 2011
"The days are long, the years are short."
Wow, did I need this today. Thank you cooker girl!
posted by Leezie at 6:42 PM on June 26, 2011 [4 favorites]
Wow, did I need this today. Thank you cooker girl!
posted by Leezie at 6:42 PM on June 26, 2011 [4 favorites]
"This too shall pass!" And it will - with my first daughter I gave in and picked her up when she cried. She woke up in the middle of the night and had trouble sleeping well into her third year of life. I took a more systematic approach to my second daughter and things are so. much. easier. She sleeps through the nigh flawlessly. My relationship with my husband is better. Our daily routine is great.
It is hard at first, but give it two weeks.
YOU will be a better, more energetic parent if you have sleep. She will be a healthier, well-adjusted child if she gets her rest.
Also, there are going to be other times when she cries, and you're going to have to stand strong. If she cries because she wants cookies for dinner a year from now, you aren't going to give in. Don't give in now.
This is good for her, and you, and she's fine! She's fine, she's just expressing her displeasure as babies do.
posted by Ostara at 6:50 PM on June 26, 2011
It is hard at first, but give it two weeks.
YOU will be a better, more energetic parent if you have sleep. She will be a healthier, well-adjusted child if she gets her rest.
Also, there are going to be other times when she cries, and you're going to have to stand strong. If she cries because she wants cookies for dinner a year from now, you aren't going to give in. Don't give in now.
This is good for her, and you, and she's fine! She's fine, she's just expressing her displeasure as babies do.
posted by Ostara at 6:50 PM on June 26, 2011
so my other comment was rightfully deleted so to paraphrase the non "please delete me" parts.... every kid is different so if you are ready and feel they are just do it. tell yourself its your job to know when they go to bed etc and frankly that its ok to want your life back....
good luck!!
posted by chasles at 6:56 PM on June 26, 2011
good luck!!
posted by chasles at 6:56 PM on June 26, 2011
My pediatrician told me, when I complained about this with my first, that a baby never died from crying. It may be heartbreaking for me, but at the end of the day, she's just crying-the only one in agony from her unhappiness is me. He also told me to remember that babies don't cry for the same reasons adults cry. Whereas I cry when my feelings are hurt or when I'm sad, she cries for all kinds of reasons, some of which are totally arbitrary. So try not to project.
This was easier said than done, but it did help some.
posted by supercapitalist at 7:32 PM on June 26, 2011 [2 favorites]
This was easier said than done, but it did help some.
posted by supercapitalist at 7:32 PM on June 26, 2011 [2 favorites]
"The payoff is worth it for both of us."
Because it is, if you have that kind of kid. Firstborn son was a terrible sleeper and we coslept because he would not sleep any other way, I finally turned to cry-it-out at ten months. It turned long, horrible, no-sleep nights into much better ones, but it did take 3 weeks to really get the routine down. He is a well-adjusted 2.5 year old kid now who sleeps in his own bed, through the night. He won't ever remember the couple of weeks he cried for what seemed like ever.
I know people with kids my son's age who still have major sleep issues. I am glad I bit the bullet and did not let my son's go past month 10.
posted by kpht at 7:34 PM on June 26, 2011
Because it is, if you have that kind of kid. Firstborn son was a terrible sleeper and we coslept because he would not sleep any other way, I finally turned to cry-it-out at ten months. It turned long, horrible, no-sleep nights into much better ones, but it did take 3 weeks to really get the routine down. He is a well-adjusted 2.5 year old kid now who sleeps in his own bed, through the night. He won't ever remember the couple of weeks he cried for what seemed like ever.
I know people with kids my son's age who still have major sleep issues. I am glad I bit the bullet and did not let my son's go past month 10.
posted by kpht at 7:34 PM on June 26, 2011
Put in earplugs. You can still hear the crying, but it's less anxiety-making. This was invaluable to my husband & me when we sleep trained our daughter.
posted by mogget at 8:34 PM on June 26, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by mogget at 8:34 PM on June 26, 2011 [2 favorites]
I always reminded myself that letting her cry and consequently letting her figure out how to cope and settle herself were the best lessons I could give her right then. It was always worth remembering that there are lots of things I needed to teach my daughter and teaching her that she was capable of sleeping on her own was just as important as teaching her to walk on her own. It's a skill.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 8:57 PM on June 26, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by otherwordlyglow at 8:57 PM on June 26, 2011 [3 favorites]
This's some bizarre stuff. Do you really believe your maternal 'instinct' would be telling you this had you never been exposed to "cry it out" propaganda of various stripe?
As far as "It also helps to think about long term vs. short term consequences" -- sure. I would strongly advise you to think about what sort of memories you're building here, for yourself. Infancy is almost over. Early childhood is gone in a flash. The kid's really out the door before you know it. When you are an old lady, is this really the sort of memory you want? The nights you let him sob to sleep?
"I sense that she's absolutely ready for us to let her cry when we put her down in the crib" is inexplicable. There are no "instincts" at work here -- well, there are, but those are the ones where you feel bad and pick her up. Had you remained innocent of the fads for giving out bad advice in the name of artificial and unnecessary infant sleep regimes, there is no way in hell these sorts of "instincts" would've entered your mind. You've been brainwashed, and you are operating on that brainwashing, and ignoring maternal instinct to do so.
And, again, building some truly unhappy memories for your future self. The age at which you can get and give cuddles is really and truly over in an instant, and you absolutely cannot go back later on and get the cuddles you missed while the kid was bawling alone.
FWIW. My daughter, from 1 to 2, would every now and then wake -- and not just wake to nurse and go back to bed, but wake and be up for an hour or two. God! I groaned, and I sat there in the dark with her feeling sullen and feeling sorry for myself. Then a light dawned and I realised that no matter what I did, we were going to be up. So I stopped feeling sorry for myself. I poured a little glass of liqueur, and took us outside to see the stars, all bundled up in quilts in mid-winter. We looked at cars passing in the night. We read Boynton. We eventually went back to sleep. And of course she stopped waking like that, and of course I miss[ed] it, those wonderful still and quiet hours when it was just the two of us in the world.
There're some people weighing in about "helping" their kids and it being "necessary" and so on. My kid is pushing four and has never been left to cry at all. Our bedtimes and nights are pleasant. "Teaching her that she was capable of sleeping on her own was just as important as teaching her to walk on her own" is a silly analogy -- who among us taught their kid to walk or crawl? They do that, along with sleeping alone/through the night, quite on their own, with no help. And it's a developmental milestone just like walking, and there're no kind ways to rush that sort of thing.
Children get a constant stream of "you can't always have your own way," and I urge you to reach back into the memory bank and remind yourself of how you felt as a small child. That sort of empathy, that sort of serious working of the memory, is, I find, the key to parenting. The world can be pretty hard for little kids; I think it's so sad that Mom and Dad might not only add to that, but think that in doing so, in removing themselves from being reliable, they might be helping! Brainwashed... There is a great deal of interesting child development literature out there that would help give some new perspective on this. I think you want to keep reading, because I think you can do a lot better than this. And that you have tagged this with "discipline" leaves me feeling a bit woozy -- discipline-wise, you are not off to a positive start, and if you really are viewing this as discipline, as instilling lessons that will pay off later -- I don't know what to say. Certainly it is a rather uniquely American view, that. But any infant development text, and I mean strictly infant development, nothing about how to parent, nothing with an agenda, would scoff at that idea. "If she cries because she wants cookies for dinner a year from now, you aren't going to give in" is risibly unrelated to the situation at hand.
posted by kmennie at 9:22 PM on June 26, 2011 [30 favorites]
As far as "It also helps to think about long term vs. short term consequences" -- sure. I would strongly advise you to think about what sort of memories you're building here, for yourself. Infancy is almost over. Early childhood is gone in a flash. The kid's really out the door before you know it. When you are an old lady, is this really the sort of memory you want? The nights you let him sob to sleep?
"I sense that she's absolutely ready for us to let her cry when we put her down in the crib" is inexplicable. There are no "instincts" at work here -- well, there are, but those are the ones where you feel bad and pick her up. Had you remained innocent of the fads for giving out bad advice in the name of artificial and unnecessary infant sleep regimes, there is no way in hell these sorts of "instincts" would've entered your mind. You've been brainwashed, and you are operating on that brainwashing, and ignoring maternal instinct to do so.
And, again, building some truly unhappy memories for your future self. The age at which you can get and give cuddles is really and truly over in an instant, and you absolutely cannot go back later on and get the cuddles you missed while the kid was bawling alone.
FWIW. My daughter, from 1 to 2, would every now and then wake -- and not just wake to nurse and go back to bed, but wake and be up for an hour or two. God! I groaned, and I sat there in the dark with her feeling sullen and feeling sorry for myself. Then a light dawned and I realised that no matter what I did, we were going to be up. So I stopped feeling sorry for myself. I poured a little glass of liqueur, and took us outside to see the stars, all bundled up in quilts in mid-winter. We looked at cars passing in the night. We read Boynton. We eventually went back to sleep. And of course she stopped waking like that, and of course I miss[ed] it, those wonderful still and quiet hours when it was just the two of us in the world.
There're some people weighing in about "helping" their kids and it being "necessary" and so on. My kid is pushing four and has never been left to cry at all. Our bedtimes and nights are pleasant. "Teaching her that she was capable of sleeping on her own was just as important as teaching her to walk on her own" is a silly analogy -- who among us taught their kid to walk or crawl? They do that, along with sleeping alone/through the night, quite on their own, with no help. And it's a developmental milestone just like walking, and there're no kind ways to rush that sort of thing.
Children get a constant stream of "you can't always have your own way," and I urge you to reach back into the memory bank and remind yourself of how you felt as a small child. That sort of empathy, that sort of serious working of the memory, is, I find, the key to parenting. The world can be pretty hard for little kids; I think it's so sad that Mom and Dad might not only add to that, but think that in doing so, in removing themselves from being reliable, they might be helping! Brainwashed... There is a great deal of interesting child development literature out there that would help give some new perspective on this. I think you want to keep reading, because I think you can do a lot better than this. And that you have tagged this with "discipline" leaves me feeling a bit woozy -- discipline-wise, you are not off to a positive start, and if you really are viewing this as discipline, as instilling lessons that will pay off later -- I don't know what to say. Certainly it is a rather uniquely American view, that. But any infant development text, and I mean strictly infant development, nothing about how to parent, nothing with an agenda, would scoff at that idea. "If she cries because she wants cookies for dinner a year from now, you aren't going to give in" is risibly unrelated to the situation at hand.
posted by kmennie at 9:22 PM on June 26, 2011 [30 favorites]
There are a ton of different developmental milestones that will affect your child's sleep over the next two or three years. You cannot prevent them nor can you minimize them.
What worked for us was this: the establishment of a firm bedtime routine, which primed and wound him down for the eventual sleep: dinner, bath, stories, bed. Some nights he cried, some nights he refused to lay down, some nights he fought every inch of the way.
For a while we held him and let him fall asleep on us, but then we realized: what happens when he needs to do this in 6 months? How will he learn to fall asleep when he wakes up at 3:00AM if he never learns how to do it on his own? At one point we physically held him down and tried to soothe him - once again, it wasn't healthy. He was well into cruising at the 10 month mark and there was one night where we put him down after stories, his self-soothing wasn't working and we heard shaking of the crib, massive amounts of a tantrum and then a loud thud - silence and a lot of hyperventilation. He pulled himself out of the crib and threw himself over the rail to a sitting position. (I should note - we also cleared two baby gates in some sort of amazing leaping convention... Surprisingly, or not so surprisingly, he was ok. Despite that, we dropped the crib to the absolute bottom and called the pediatrician... anyway... point being, that even after the wind down, the crying, the trip to the hospital - anything... our son eventually found a way to cope with going to sleep on his own (about a week later). Yes, we did go in and check in on him every 15 minutes or so - but even that we tapered off from doing, because it became a reward for staying up (mommy and daddy will look at me and re-settle me if I stay up longer).
At two and a half he goes to bed every night at the same time (within a half hour window). We read 2-5 stories. He doesn't put up a fight, and he stays in his toddler bed the whole night - with the exception of three nights ago when we had our first 3:30am nightmare - and the first and only time since he was 2 months where we brought him to bed with us.
Look... crying is crying. It is manipulation to help soothe her. If it works and you pick her up, you soothe her - and she feels better. She affects you which, and you in turn soothe her. If you don't go and pick her up, she will learn a different technique to soothe herself. It doesn't mean that you don't love your child, it means you are giving your child the opportunity to grow and learn a skill on her own.
posted by Nanukthedog at 9:26 PM on June 26, 2011
What worked for us was this: the establishment of a firm bedtime routine, which primed and wound him down for the eventual sleep: dinner, bath, stories, bed. Some nights he cried, some nights he refused to lay down, some nights he fought every inch of the way.
For a while we held him and let him fall asleep on us, but then we realized: what happens when he needs to do this in 6 months? How will he learn to fall asleep when he wakes up at 3:00AM if he never learns how to do it on his own? At one point we physically held him down and tried to soothe him - once again, it wasn't healthy. He was well into cruising at the 10 month mark and there was one night where we put him down after stories, his self-soothing wasn't working and we heard shaking of the crib, massive amounts of a tantrum and then a loud thud - silence and a lot of hyperventilation. He pulled himself out of the crib and threw himself over the rail to a sitting position. (I should note - we also cleared two baby gates in some sort of amazing leaping convention... Surprisingly, or not so surprisingly, he was ok. Despite that, we dropped the crib to the absolute bottom and called the pediatrician... anyway... point being, that even after the wind down, the crying, the trip to the hospital - anything... our son eventually found a way to cope with going to sleep on his own (about a week later). Yes, we did go in and check in on him every 15 minutes or so - but even that we tapered off from doing, because it became a reward for staying up (mommy and daddy will look at me and re-settle me if I stay up longer).
At two and a half he goes to bed every night at the same time (within a half hour window). We read 2-5 stories. He doesn't put up a fight, and he stays in his toddler bed the whole night - with the exception of three nights ago when we had our first 3:30am nightmare - and the first and only time since he was 2 months where we brought him to bed with us.
Look... crying is crying. It is manipulation to help soothe her. If it works and you pick her up, you soothe her - and she feels better. She affects you which, and you in turn soothe her. If you don't go and pick her up, she will learn a different technique to soothe herself. It doesn't mean that you don't love your child, it means you are giving your child the opportunity to grow and learn a skill on her own.
posted by Nanukthedog at 9:26 PM on June 26, 2011
It's always helped me to go sit on the back porch and relax somewhere out of earshot. I remember sleep training being pretty difficult at the time, but having a regular bedtime routine has really helped my son develop into a good sleeper. He's 2 now, and he knows when bedtime is, and what to expect, but he still throws a little fit every time I put him down. He just wants to stay up and play, but if I give him the time to settle down by himself, he goes to sleep on his own within minutes.
It has always helped to hear, "This too will pass," because it will. Your baby will cry, but she will learn to sleep on her own, and she'll be just fine. Just remember that you're teaching her healthy sleep habits, and that is a lesson that will benefit her for the rest of her life.
posted by lexicakes at 10:01 PM on June 26, 2011
It has always helped to hear, "This too will pass," because it will. Your baby will cry, but she will learn to sleep on her own, and she'll be just fine. Just remember that you're teaching her healthy sleep habits, and that is a lesson that will benefit her for the rest of her life.
posted by lexicakes at 10:01 PM on June 26, 2011
Another vote for setting up a solid routine and having predictable naps and bedtimes. Kid#1 in my house was (and still is) an excellent sleeper. We started his bedtime routine at 3 months, he always preferred sleeping alone in his crib, and he would go down for naps without rocking or fuss. Kid#2... not so much. She was a big snuggler, liked to cosleep, and even today (she's 3) would prefer to have someone sit with her at bedtime until she falls asleep. We did the same things with her that we did with kid#1, she's just a different kid. It took her a lot longer to learn to fall asleep alone, but she got there.
Anyway. The routines help a lot. Eventually the kid will get the message. Crying is often a great way for babies to release stress and tension so that they can relax and go to sleep. If you think it's more of a "sad" cry, then maybe that's what's going on. Make that your time to fold laundry, do the dishes, or some other routine task that can be calming so that you're not just standing outside the door, waiting for her to stop.
posted by hms71 at 10:09 PM on June 26, 2011
Anyway. The routines help a lot. Eventually the kid will get the message. Crying is often a great way for babies to release stress and tension so that they can relax and go to sleep. If you think it's more of a "sad" cry, then maybe that's what's going on. Make that your time to fold laundry, do the dishes, or some other routine task that can be calming so that you're not just standing outside the door, waiting for her to stop.
posted by hms71 at 10:09 PM on June 26, 2011
...and I should add -- we were never successful with CIO. Kid#1 didn't need it. Kid#2 hated it -- when we tried she stopped sleeping through the night, became clingy during the day, and escalated every night into panic-attack territory. We quit after a week. It didn't ruin her for life or spoil her (she's a great sleeper now), so if you decide against "letting the baby cry" it doesn't mean you'll be sleepless until she turns 18. Pick your battles, is all I'm saying.
posted by hms71 at 10:17 PM on June 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by hms71 at 10:17 PM on June 26, 2011 [1 favorite]
I agree fully with kmennie. My son is three and has never been left to cry, and he has no sleep problems whatsoever. The fact that I picked him up when he cried as an infant has not "spoiled" him; I regularly get compliments from strangers on how well behaved he is. In fact, I cannot imagine how responding to an infant could be viewed as potentially detrimental.
I believe that parents feel guilty in these situations because our instincts tell us that letting babies cry without comfort while left alone in another room is wrong. If the child was two or three, this would be a different story, but an infant, by nature, needs so much more from their parents. They are totally helpless, and they aren't old enough to be manipulative or devise methods of getting attention that they don't need or that isn't appropriate.
As kmennie pointed out, this period of babyhood is short. I don't regret the extra time it took to rock my son to sleep, or walk around with him at night. I think it was as good for me as it was for him. Please ask yourself if the crying it out method is more for you rather than your baby. In my case, it only took 10 minutes to hold my son until he went to sleep, so the crying it out method may not even be too much quicker.
posted by mudlark at 10:22 PM on June 26, 2011 [7 favorites]
I believe that parents feel guilty in these situations because our instincts tell us that letting babies cry without comfort while left alone in another room is wrong. If the child was two or three, this would be a different story, but an infant, by nature, needs so much more from their parents. They are totally helpless, and they aren't old enough to be manipulative or devise methods of getting attention that they don't need or that isn't appropriate.
As kmennie pointed out, this period of babyhood is short. I don't regret the extra time it took to rock my son to sleep, or walk around with him at night. I think it was as good for me as it was for him. Please ask yourself if the crying it out method is more for you rather than your baby. In my case, it only took 10 minutes to hold my son until he went to sleep, so the crying it out method may not even be too much quicker.
posted by mudlark at 10:22 PM on June 26, 2011 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: If you are not here to answer my question, please do not post. This is not your soapbox. This is especially not your forum to be rude and derisive towards others and towards philosophies different from your own. Thank you.
posted by kitcat at 10:55 PM on June 26, 2011 [21 favorites]
posted by kitcat at 10:55 PM on June 26, 2011 [21 favorites]
I have a bit of a theory about sleep-training, based on nothing but gut instinct and my now-19month old. She was a fairly crummy sleeper up until a year old, and a total drama queen whenever thwarted. We feared sleep training her, but eventually did a CIO-variant when we got sick of getting up every hour to resettle her (at 12 months).
First night: 5 minutes crying. Second night: 1 minute.
That was it. A few squawks from time-to-time (and she always always squawks 3.5hrs after going down), but she's been a dream since... which leads me to my theory - she was ready for it. I suspect people who have massive dramas with hours of screaming are just trying a bit too soon. If she's not going down now, and you've established a routine, well.. try again in a month. Who knows, it might just work!
posted by coriolisdave at 11:28 PM on June 26, 2011 [4 favorites]
First night: 5 minutes crying. Second night: 1 minute.
That was it. A few squawks from time-to-time (and she always always squawks 3.5hrs after going down), but she's been a dream since... which leads me to my theory - she was ready for it. I suspect people who have massive dramas with hours of screaming are just trying a bit too soon. If she's not going down now, and you've established a routine, well.. try again in a month. Who knows, it might just work!
posted by coriolisdave at 11:28 PM on June 26, 2011 [4 favorites]
Nthing Kmennie.
I know the OP asked us to tell her how to feel better about cry it out - but if it breaks your heart, then maybe that IS your maternal instinct speaking.
That said, its one thing for a child to cry because she's been abandoned and needs her mom, its another to let her play as the alternative. You can make it very clear that you are serious about bedtime. For example if she is messing about and not serious about trying to get to sleep you can sit next door or sit in the room with her and just sit and not play. You can hold her hand and say, its time to sleep. When she tries to play, practice deep breathing and take some meditation time. If she really starts to cry, pick her up, soothe her briefly and then put her back in the crib. Its harder in a way, because you are forcing yourself to be present, but you are also giving her a strong message which is I will not abandon you - and I will help you figure out this sleep thing. It also works if the walls are thin to go next door, and let her be in the crib. When she cries out, tell her you are there, saying again and again "Go to sleep".
If this doesn't work, then just pick her up and consider trying again in 3 or 6 months. Ten months is really young. When folks up thread say they worried that if they didn't force their kid to self-soothe (who thought of this before the 20th century?! Our culture values independence and self-reliance to a ridiculous degree and what we take for granted as only stood as the norm for child rearing for a very short time. For milennia people generally didn't have the money to have more than one or two rooms to live in (so co-sleeping was the norm (and still is many places), nor did they have all the options / needs or individual time, leisure time was spent with the kids), they worried that the child would have sleep problems for the rest of their lives, they seem to have forgotten that had they waited 1 month, 3 months or 6months, its likely their child would have gone through the next series of development stages and not even need to be forced into cry-it-out.
One last thought: the paradigm that crying is manipulation is ridiculous. Babies are not adults, they are not even as developed as small children. When they cry they need to know someone is there, and it builds a fundamental sense of security. The idea that crying is manipulation or that an infant the age of your daughter needs to be disciplined is very odd, and serves neither you nor her well.
On preview I note the OP saying this: Dont be rude and derisive towards others and towards philosophies different from your own and will respond by saying, you asked us to answer the question - for some of us answering the question will be around challenging your fundamental assumption of cry-it-out and would submit that thats okay - we are all trying to help you and are not judging.
posted by zia at 12:37 AM on June 27, 2011 [7 favorites]
I know the OP asked us to tell her how to feel better about cry it out - but if it breaks your heart, then maybe that IS your maternal instinct speaking.
That said, its one thing for a child to cry because she's been abandoned and needs her mom, its another to let her play as the alternative. You can make it very clear that you are serious about bedtime. For example if she is messing about and not serious about trying to get to sleep you can sit next door or sit in the room with her and just sit and not play. You can hold her hand and say, its time to sleep. When she tries to play, practice deep breathing and take some meditation time. If she really starts to cry, pick her up, soothe her briefly and then put her back in the crib. Its harder in a way, because you are forcing yourself to be present, but you are also giving her a strong message which is I will not abandon you - and I will help you figure out this sleep thing. It also works if the walls are thin to go next door, and let her be in the crib. When she cries out, tell her you are there, saying again and again "Go to sleep".
If this doesn't work, then just pick her up and consider trying again in 3 or 6 months. Ten months is really young. When folks up thread say they worried that if they didn't force their kid to self-soothe (who thought of this before the 20th century?! Our culture values independence and self-reliance to a ridiculous degree and what we take for granted as only stood as the norm for child rearing for a very short time. For milennia people generally didn't have the money to have more than one or two rooms to live in (so co-sleeping was the norm (and still is many places), nor did they have all the options / needs or individual time, leisure time was spent with the kids), they worried that the child would have sleep problems for the rest of their lives, they seem to have forgotten that had they waited 1 month, 3 months or 6months, its likely their child would have gone through the next series of development stages and not even need to be forced into cry-it-out.
One last thought: the paradigm that crying is manipulation is ridiculous. Babies are not adults, they are not even as developed as small children. When they cry they need to know someone is there, and it builds a fundamental sense of security. The idea that crying is manipulation or that an infant the age of your daughter needs to be disciplined is very odd, and serves neither you nor her well.
On preview I note the OP saying this: Dont be rude and derisive towards others and towards philosophies different from your own and will respond by saying, you asked us to answer the question - for some of us answering the question will be around challenging your fundamental assumption of cry-it-out and would submit that thats okay - we are all trying to help you and are not judging.
posted by zia at 12:37 AM on June 27, 2011 [7 favorites]
I, too agree with kmennie, after my experience with two kids, now 18 and 21, who have not developed any weird sleeping habits or anything else of what is normally predicted when you "give in" to the "young tyrant", as the education books of the time still called it. The idea that - at that early an age - you're facing a power struggle, (instead of simply: an unhappy child), seems false. Power struggles do come, typically age three, and you will notice those. The good thing about them is that there will be little that breaks your heard about those.
So this part of the question, or your conflict, if you will:
you know you have to just let her do it for her own good, but it just breaks your heart
is based, to my mind, on a conflicting bit of information which makes that it difficult to answer. You will not be able to do both, if you don't consider perhaps changing your tactics. Okay, kids are different. Perhaps what coriolisdave writes will work for yours, too, in which case nothing is lost. But perhaps not, and in that case it would be much better if you'd find a way to not break your heart, while listening to the needs of your child. And yes, the period where this crying before sleeping is a problem may be short, even if you are there for your kid to soothe her, or carry her, or whatever else it needs.
posted by Namlit at 12:37 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
So this part of the question, or your conflict, if you will:
you know you have to just let her do it for her own good, but it just breaks your heart
is based, to my mind, on a conflicting bit of information which makes that it difficult to answer. You will not be able to do both, if you don't consider perhaps changing your tactics. Okay, kids are different. Perhaps what coriolisdave writes will work for yours, too, in which case nothing is lost. But perhaps not, and in that case it would be much better if you'd find a way to not break your heart, while listening to the needs of your child. And yes, the period where this crying before sleeping is a problem may be short, even if you are there for your kid to soothe her, or carry her, or whatever else it needs.
posted by Namlit at 12:37 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Folks, the discipline tag is there to help others find this question, should they consider what I'm taking about to be discipline. Sometimes when I'm thinking of keywords in a post where I can't think of many keywords, I put down some that are 'close, but not quite', and when I search stuff, I sometimes search using keywords that are 'close, but not quite' too. Don't read too much into it. I personally do not think it's appropriate to discipline a baby in the 'punish' sense of the word. For goodness sakes!
posted by kitcat at 12:54 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by kitcat at 12:54 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
For me the key thing was following a graduated soothing schedule-- so, for example, wait 5min, go back in to give a hug and pat her on the back (without picking her up!); exit, wait 7min, return, repeat; exit, wait 10min, return, repeat; 10min; 10min; 10min, etc., ad finem. We got this from the Ferber book, which I know comes in for a lot of HATE!!, but we found it to be both compassionate and effective.
The nice thing about soothing at graduated intervals is that as a mom, it allows you to go through crying bursts knowing that if she's really upset, you'll be in in 6 minutes to comfort her, anyway. You don't have to hold out the entire night; just until the next ding of the timer.
It also makes the crying into more of a controlled learning experience (can you be alone for 5 minutes? Can you trust that I'll be back even if I leave you alone for that long? Are you sure you're not sleepy enough to stop crying by minute 9 or so?) instead of something that felt like abandonment. Our kid usually transitioned from crying to sleeping/quiet playing by interval 3-4, anyway.
posted by Bardolph at 4:12 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
The nice thing about soothing at graduated intervals is that as a mom, it allows you to go through crying bursts knowing that if she's really upset, you'll be in in 6 minutes to comfort her, anyway. You don't have to hold out the entire night; just until the next ding of the timer.
It also makes the crying into more of a controlled learning experience (can you be alone for 5 minutes? Can you trust that I'll be back even if I leave you alone for that long? Are you sure you're not sleepy enough to stop crying by minute 9 or so?) instead of something that felt like abandonment. Our kid usually transitioned from crying to sleeping/quiet playing by interval 3-4, anyway.
posted by Bardolph at 4:12 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
"There are no inherently wrong parenting styles," is an awful lot of parenting styles to embrace. I'd be cautious with this line of thinking. Also the "maternal instinct" rubric can be as dangerous as the "by the book" thing.
Common sense, self-preservation, and the understanding that little kids don't know what they need -- mostly mother/father do know best, as others have eloquently pointed out upthread, will help. Good luck.
posted by thinkpiece at 4:27 AM on June 27, 2011
Common sense, self-preservation, and the understanding that little kids don't know what they need -- mostly mother/father do know best, as others have eloquently pointed out upthread, will help. Good luck.
posted by thinkpiece at 4:27 AM on June 27, 2011
Just popping back in to add (re: comment I just made) that you can do really any set of soothing intervals you're comfortable with (short of, you know, making them so short that the baby's just never alone). We used 1min...2min...3...4...5...5...5, mostly, at six months.
But, the answer to your question is 'Nice parents don't get involved with this stuff.'...the whole thing has been turned into a battle for 'control,'
Wow, really? It's doubtless possible to fetishize scheduling and rules to the detriment of both mother and child, but it doesn't sound like that's at all what's happening here. Control isn't always a bad word; it's what helps mediate productively between all our unruly desires and impulses and the fixed demands of the external world. No reason at all why early childhood should be a control-free zone (it sounds horrifying, in fact!), and ideally the parent's (moderate, loving) control will ultimately help the child develop the enormously useful ability to control him or herself. A parent who never lets her kid cry for more than five minutes at a time is in for some serious trouble come the toddler years.
posted by Bardolph at 4:54 AM on June 27, 2011
But, the answer to your question is 'Nice parents don't get involved with this stuff.'...the whole thing has been turned into a battle for 'control,'
Wow, really? It's doubtless possible to fetishize scheduling and rules to the detriment of both mother and child, but it doesn't sound like that's at all what's happening here. Control isn't always a bad word; it's what helps mediate productively between all our unruly desires and impulses and the fixed demands of the external world. No reason at all why early childhood should be a control-free zone (it sounds horrifying, in fact!), and ideally the parent's (moderate, loving) control will ultimately help the child develop the enormously useful ability to control him or herself. A parent who never lets her kid cry for more than five minutes at a time is in for some serious trouble come the toddler years.
posted by Bardolph at 4:54 AM on June 27, 2011
When I was contemplating our choices, I found a lot of helpful, non-judgemental advice at askmoxie.com One of the most useful things she talks about is how some babies (and people) cry because that is how they reduce tension (meaning they cry for a few minutes and then fall to sleep. Other babies cry and it increases tension (meaning they just keep crying louder and louder and then can't be consoled and never go to sleep). If your baby is the first kind of baby, then letting her cry for a while is a good and necessary thing. Unfortunately ours was the second kind, and if she was really not ready for bed when we put her to bed the crying led to total disaster-ness.
But, when I knew our baby was really tired and needed to sleep, I would put her in the crib and then immediately go take a shower. 99% of those times she was asleep before I was done. I just told myself "she's dry and fed and safe and warm and if she's still crying when I get done I'll go to her" - somehow being in the shower made it much easier for me.
posted by dpx.mfx at 6:34 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
But, when I knew our baby was really tired and needed to sleep, I would put her in the crib and then immediately go take a shower. 99% of those times she was asleep before I was done. I just told myself "she's dry and fed and safe and warm and if she's still crying when I get done I'll go to her" - somehow being in the shower made it much easier for me.
posted by dpx.mfx at 6:34 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Mod note: folks - take non question answering stuff to email please?
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:45 AM on June 27, 2011
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:45 AM on June 27, 2011
I think the term cry it out has a lot of connotations to it in our particular society. I know for me it causes a visceral reaction of, "Why would anyone do that?"
But, but, but, but, BUT, there is a big difference between letting a baby fuss themselves down and ignoring a baby's hysterical cries of need. You know best what your kid is doing.
I will say that for us, this particular method would never have worked because my son is a child who gets worked up at bedtime instead of worked down. Using this particular method with him would have meant bedtime=trauma for him. So we chose to avoid that by picking our battles. Bedtime and food are not battles that we have in our house right now.
I will also say that we have found that if our son is not ready to go to sleep, nothing on earth we do could possibly get him to sleep. So we let him guide the way, within reason. He usually chooses to go to sleep between 8 and 9 these days. Many nights when he is ready he says to us, "Lie down." Or if we ask him, "Do you want to go night night?" and he's ready, he'll go into the bedroom on his own and wait be tucked in.
He is also two and half.
At ten months, he was still a very much needy little baby. We got him to sleep by lying next to him, rocking him, and all sorts of soothing methods. In our case, he absolutely would never have gone to sleep otherwise because, again, he is a child who works himself up instead of down.
Other babies work themselves down. They fuss and cry a little bit as they're settling to sleep, and I see absolutely nothing wrong with putting a child for whom this is true down to bed and letting them fuss and cry themselves to sleep a little bit. Because some babies do need that. Your baby may need that, and if that's what she needs, then I don't think what you're doing is actually crying it out.
But I would encourage you to, if your daughter is not asleep within twenty minutes of being put down, to reevaluate the situation some:
1. Is she really ready for bed when you want her to go to bed?
2. Is she mostly settling herself pretty quickly, or after a few minutes do her cries escalate and become worse? Is she responding positively to this method, or is it only stressing the both of you out?
3. How do you feel when this is happening?
4. Is bedtime stressful or peaceful?
I'm not saying your method is wrong --- though it's not one that would have worked for us --- but I would encourage you to take a look at the method if bedtime is not a primarily peaceful happy time. Sure, there will be times when it's not, but for the most part, bedtime should be a painless process. And if it's not, maybe the process isn't working. In that case, time to reevaluate and time to consider altering the existing method or looking into a new one --- whatever that entails for your family.
posted by zizzle at 8:40 AM on June 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
But, but, but, but, BUT, there is a big difference between letting a baby fuss themselves down and ignoring a baby's hysterical cries of need. You know best what your kid is doing.
I will say that for us, this particular method would never have worked because my son is a child who gets worked up at bedtime instead of worked down. Using this particular method with him would have meant bedtime=trauma for him. So we chose to avoid that by picking our battles. Bedtime and food are not battles that we have in our house right now.
I will also say that we have found that if our son is not ready to go to sleep, nothing on earth we do could possibly get him to sleep. So we let him guide the way, within reason. He usually chooses to go to sleep between 8 and 9 these days. Many nights when he is ready he says to us, "Lie down." Or if we ask him, "Do you want to go night night?" and he's ready, he'll go into the bedroom on his own and wait be tucked in.
He is also two and half.
At ten months, he was still a very much needy little baby. We got him to sleep by lying next to him, rocking him, and all sorts of soothing methods. In our case, he absolutely would never have gone to sleep otherwise because, again, he is a child who works himself up instead of down.
Other babies work themselves down. They fuss and cry a little bit as they're settling to sleep, and I see absolutely nothing wrong with putting a child for whom this is true down to bed and letting them fuss and cry themselves to sleep a little bit. Because some babies do need that. Your baby may need that, and if that's what she needs, then I don't think what you're doing is actually crying it out.
But I would encourage you to, if your daughter is not asleep within twenty minutes of being put down, to reevaluate the situation some:
1. Is she really ready for bed when you want her to go to bed?
2. Is she mostly settling herself pretty quickly, or after a few minutes do her cries escalate and become worse? Is she responding positively to this method, or is it only stressing the both of you out?
3. How do you feel when this is happening?
4. Is bedtime stressful or peaceful?
I'm not saying your method is wrong --- though it's not one that would have worked for us --- but I would encourage you to take a look at the method if bedtime is not a primarily peaceful happy time. Sure, there will be times when it's not, but for the most part, bedtime should be a painless process. And if it's not, maybe the process isn't working. In that case, time to reevaluate and time to consider altering the existing method or looking into a new one --- whatever that entails for your family.
posted by zizzle at 8:40 AM on June 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
One thing that's helped me as a mom is the Buddhist notion of the First Noble Truth - that all of life is suffering. Yeah, sounds pretty bleak, but actually it helps me so much to remind myself that there are times when my son cries where I can't help him - as much as I want to.
There are times when he's overtired and just needs to sleep - but desperately doesn't want to - and won't be soothed by my holding him. At those times, I just sit with him and wait it out. I'm present with him, but I'm not playing with him. I'm not holding him, I'm just sitting next to him where he can see and hear me and he knows I'm there. Eventually, something shifts. Either he falls asleep or he gets hungry again and I nurse him and then he does fall asleep. It never lasts forever.
Being present with my son in this way has been helpful for both of us. He knows I'm there. I know he's ok. Eventually, he won't need me there anymore, but for now - this is what feels right.
posted by sonika at 9:51 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
There are times when he's overtired and just needs to sleep - but desperately doesn't want to - and won't be soothed by my holding him. At those times, I just sit with him and wait it out. I'm present with him, but I'm not playing with him. I'm not holding him, I'm just sitting next to him where he can see and hear me and he knows I'm there. Eventually, something shifts. Either he falls asleep or he gets hungry again and I nurse him and then he does fall asleep. It never lasts forever.
Being present with my son in this way has been helpful for both of us. He knows I'm there. I know he's ok. Eventually, he won't need me there anymore, but for now - this is what feels right.
posted by sonika at 9:51 AM on June 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I now have two children, and those words ("It's OK- he's just mad") have gotten me through.
Good luck!
posted by ambrosia at 5:34 PM on June 26, 2011 [4 favorites]