This relationship, it's like Groundhog Day.
April 21, 2011 3:29 AM Subscribe
How to extricate myself from a negative relationship cycle.
I'm not sure if I can condense this adequately enough, but may as well give it a try.
I'm 37, female, he is 53. We met when I was 19, and have basically been on and off ever since. We are supremely close and have such deep sympathies with each other, we have tended to be honest all through, and have never suffered the result of infidelities.
But the betrayals have been of another kind. Initially, as might be expected, we had to jump a few hurdles to make peace with the age gap (he was 34, I was 19), yet managed to settle eventually developing a very close bond. He had never been married, just a few long term relationships, one of which was still close to him (sadly she became something of a domineering mother-in-law figure, who interfered with our lives negatively down the line).
A few years on, I learned that whenever there was any slight confrontation or conflict, he could not deal with it very well. He would often walk out, leaving our flat/apartment for days on end, with no word of where he had gone. Usually it was to stay with a friend. Most often he would tell me that my behavior was unacceptable, or that he suspected me of having an affair. This even provoked inspection of my underwear at one stage early in the relationship, after I had been out for the weekend with a friend. He was never aggressive, just stressful, confusing and critical. Still, we carried on. The first betrayal came when I lost our unplanned pregnancy (neither of us have ever been keen to have children), which was quite a horrific experience regardless: I was hospitalized for a few days due to too much blood loss, etc. On arriving home (we then shared his flat), he invited a friend round that very evening. I excused myself from the living room, wishing to rest on the bed....which basically resulted in him throwing a fit (accusing me of being ignorant to our guest - who incidentally sat smoking pot for three hours and saying very little - neither of us use drugs ourselves for what it's worth) and storming out of the door for two days solid, leaving me completely alone after just being discharged from hospital, and only a few hours out of anesthetic. Of course, I knew this was cruel, mindboggling, yet when he arrived home I was too emotionally weak to make a stand. The second example involved my 21st birthday, in which we spent the evening celebrating with his domineering ex and her partner. At some point during the proceedings, somebody made a joke that slightly upset me. When I voiced this to him, privately, he literally flew at me: this time, the resulting mood was so ginormous, not only did he desert me again (for another 48 hours), but also asked me to move out.
So I did.
He never behaved in an 'unstable' manner through any of this either: his tone and attitude was always calm, thoughtful and even gentle at times. I think that if he had been outright crazy or aggressive I would have walked out early on.
To cut a long story short, our friendship would always seem to pick up again at some stage, and we would simply drift back into the relationship. His desire for me was always strong, and very evident, so this was never in dispute. In the early years there were quite a lot of uncalled-for insecurities and jealousies, which I put down to the age gap rearing its ugly head once more. And on we would go, and each time a promise of change from him, that he was growing emotionally stronger (which he did, to some extent). I stood by and supported his work, although he was always distrustful of mine (we are both artists), as if he feared my creative drive would take me from him. It never did. We attempted to live together three more times down the years, yet the same issue was always the cause of its demise. Basically, he seems to always reach this ending point if there is something vital or stressful in the air, and especially at times when I have needed him the most:
After a pregnancy.
During anxiety issues.
After a rape.
My final year of college (which screwed my uni plans entirely).
When one of my family members was seriously ill.
When I wanted to move town to study.
When a close friend had hurt me.
He blamed early periods of impotence on my college courses and 'needing me too much'.
There are many more examples, yet they are the most hurtful.
Now to the present day. He is no longer concerned with jealousy or any of the same issues from our early relationship. I have been living alone since he left me 5 years ago, and have remained living apart for I would not take the risk of moving in together again. In the past 10 yrs also, he appears to have changed a great deal: he is much less vocal of his passion for me, he suffers countless anxiety issues, for which he takes a veritable cocktail of prescription drugs (sleeping pills, antidepressants, anti anxiety, etc), and he spends all of his free time working (or visiting his friends of a similar age/profession). We have never been out together socially or on holiday for 7 years, and if i mention this, he becomes anxious and annoyed, as if my interest in such things is a pain for him. We see each other 3 times per week, and this has become almost regimental: he won't go an hour more or less than our prescribed time, and often rushes off of a morning before I can even get my head together to have a conversation.
I am aware that he has issues, and has sought help in the past, but these days he has no remote interest in pursuing any type of therapy. He is mostly silent with regards to deep emotions, and appears to dislike conversation about our relationship. He has some physical problems that cause impotence, and this has led to him becoming sexually distant, and we have not had actual sex in many, many months (even then it was only once per month because I cannot use the pill and he won't use condoms). Oh this sounds like a sorry mess in writing! Aside from this, we are supremely close, confidential and warm, and as a human being I trust him implicitly. Yet something is wrong here. I have been feeling less and less involved with him over the past 12 months, and the sexual distance is beginning to really frustrate me. I would stand by him until the end of the world, if only I felt that he at least desired, wanted me. When I attempt to discuss this, he reverts to self defense mode, even though he isn't under attack, and simply states that all is well in that department. But it is not.
Recently he has begun to exhibit some of the old behavior patterns which concern me: two nights ago he up and left as we were about to eat a meal I had cooked because I was frustrated about hanging some blinds in a bedroom. When I asked him what the hell was wrong, he just said he couldn't take any stress. This was so damned minimal that I wondered about his sanity for a moment - and after trying to get him to talk, he simply got up and left, slamming the door and not contacting me until 3am tonight. This is the first time anything of this kind has happened in many years, so I feel incredibly apprehensive. We have discussed ending the relationship on the telephone, and I am amazed at how little emotion he has towards it. It's like he cares, deeply, but something feels so distant, almost deadened in the romantic sense.
As for myself, I am concerned about making more mistakes, continuing a negative cycle, no matter how well we generally get along. I love him very much, but I feel that there is no real, sexual spark anymore, and often find myself wondering about new experiences. I have wondered if I am really undesirable, off putting, or whether (like my family and friends say), I have simply forgotten what it feels like to be needed or desired by a man. This is horribly candid, but I worry about never being able to experience a fully erect penis ever again.
I have always coped very well as a single unit, and don't exactly fear leaving him, yet I am also quite isolated where I live now, and many of my friends and contacts have moved away. I very much need to repair myself from this current issue, and with so many instances of similar problems in our past, I am wondering if I will ever get out of this endless circle of 'starting and ending'.
I have never once left him, in all the years we have known each other. It has always been him who culls it. I feel that this is what he is leading to now, so I am preparing myself for another round of picking up the pieces of another failed attempt.
I want to feel positive about my future rather than this sensation of static, this weird lethargy. If I am going to be in a relationship at all, I need regular sex, or at least a man who occasionally expresses desire for me. I would be willing to work with him on this, but he won't budge or open up. We have been together too long now to imagine that this is a passing glitch, right? It's like I have to repair from heartbreak every 4 years or so, when he bails out on me again. And like clockwork we drift back together and he appears to have moved on for the better.
How do you finally end a cycle like this, with someone so dear to you, yet evidently incompatible in many vital areas? I have had to focus on his negative traits to express my question, yet for the most part he is a beautiful soul with whom I have a very strong connection. Our time together, as companions, is very relaxing, open and pleasant, and we share similar beliefs, fears and ideas. I would never hurt him, and yet I also feel that leaving him wouldn't exactly bother him right now, so long as I remain his friend.
This is all serving to make me feel worthless, so I think that I shall have to come to some sort of resolution. I am tired of renewing my faith and trust in something that ultimately wounds me. And due to my current isolation (I work freelance from home), my confidence in moving on is somewhat shaky. I am usually quite a strong, optimistic sort, yet the lack of sexual attention and routine has left me wondering if I could ever truly be desired by another. My mother, bless her, seems to think that I will have nothing to worry about due to me still looking like I'm in my early twenties - but what the hell? I might do better to appear my own age, and attract likewise ;)
And for the record, he doesn't appear to be interested in anyone else. Although we can never presume certainty in such things, this is just my own opinion at present. I am, of course, no angel, and have my own particular faults, although I am fairly easy going with him (not to the extent of being passive by any stretch of the imagination), and feel that I really don't quite deserve this deal. I am not especially concerned about marriage, but it kind of sucks that the only time he ever actually proposed was when he wished to stop me studying across the country.
Any advice or thoughts would be so welcome.
Thanks for bearing with me!
(I am from the UK, by the way, and the spellcheck doth protest to much)
I'm not sure if I can condense this adequately enough, but may as well give it a try.
I'm 37, female, he is 53. We met when I was 19, and have basically been on and off ever since. We are supremely close and have such deep sympathies with each other, we have tended to be honest all through, and have never suffered the result of infidelities.
But the betrayals have been of another kind. Initially, as might be expected, we had to jump a few hurdles to make peace with the age gap (he was 34, I was 19), yet managed to settle eventually developing a very close bond. He had never been married, just a few long term relationships, one of which was still close to him (sadly she became something of a domineering mother-in-law figure, who interfered with our lives negatively down the line).
A few years on, I learned that whenever there was any slight confrontation or conflict, he could not deal with it very well. He would often walk out, leaving our flat/apartment for days on end, with no word of where he had gone. Usually it was to stay with a friend. Most often he would tell me that my behavior was unacceptable, or that he suspected me of having an affair. This even provoked inspection of my underwear at one stage early in the relationship, after I had been out for the weekend with a friend. He was never aggressive, just stressful, confusing and critical. Still, we carried on. The first betrayal came when I lost our unplanned pregnancy (neither of us have ever been keen to have children), which was quite a horrific experience regardless: I was hospitalized for a few days due to too much blood loss, etc. On arriving home (we then shared his flat), he invited a friend round that very evening. I excused myself from the living room, wishing to rest on the bed....which basically resulted in him throwing a fit (accusing me of being ignorant to our guest - who incidentally sat smoking pot for three hours and saying very little - neither of us use drugs ourselves for what it's worth) and storming out of the door for two days solid, leaving me completely alone after just being discharged from hospital, and only a few hours out of anesthetic. Of course, I knew this was cruel, mindboggling, yet when he arrived home I was too emotionally weak to make a stand. The second example involved my 21st birthday, in which we spent the evening celebrating with his domineering ex and her partner. At some point during the proceedings, somebody made a joke that slightly upset me. When I voiced this to him, privately, he literally flew at me: this time, the resulting mood was so ginormous, not only did he desert me again (for another 48 hours), but also asked me to move out.
So I did.
He never behaved in an 'unstable' manner through any of this either: his tone and attitude was always calm, thoughtful and even gentle at times. I think that if he had been outright crazy or aggressive I would have walked out early on.
To cut a long story short, our friendship would always seem to pick up again at some stage, and we would simply drift back into the relationship. His desire for me was always strong, and very evident, so this was never in dispute. In the early years there were quite a lot of uncalled-for insecurities and jealousies, which I put down to the age gap rearing its ugly head once more. And on we would go, and each time a promise of change from him, that he was growing emotionally stronger (which he did, to some extent). I stood by and supported his work, although he was always distrustful of mine (we are both artists), as if he feared my creative drive would take me from him. It never did. We attempted to live together three more times down the years, yet the same issue was always the cause of its demise. Basically, he seems to always reach this ending point if there is something vital or stressful in the air, and especially at times when I have needed him the most:
After a pregnancy.
During anxiety issues.
After a rape.
My final year of college (which screwed my uni plans entirely).
When one of my family members was seriously ill.
When I wanted to move town to study.
When a close friend had hurt me.
He blamed early periods of impotence on my college courses and 'needing me too much'.
There are many more examples, yet they are the most hurtful.
Now to the present day. He is no longer concerned with jealousy or any of the same issues from our early relationship. I have been living alone since he left me 5 years ago, and have remained living apart for I would not take the risk of moving in together again. In the past 10 yrs also, he appears to have changed a great deal: he is much less vocal of his passion for me, he suffers countless anxiety issues, for which he takes a veritable cocktail of prescription drugs (sleeping pills, antidepressants, anti anxiety, etc), and he spends all of his free time working (or visiting his friends of a similar age/profession). We have never been out together socially or on holiday for 7 years, and if i mention this, he becomes anxious and annoyed, as if my interest in such things is a pain for him. We see each other 3 times per week, and this has become almost regimental: he won't go an hour more or less than our prescribed time, and often rushes off of a morning before I can even get my head together to have a conversation.
I am aware that he has issues, and has sought help in the past, but these days he has no remote interest in pursuing any type of therapy. He is mostly silent with regards to deep emotions, and appears to dislike conversation about our relationship. He has some physical problems that cause impotence, and this has led to him becoming sexually distant, and we have not had actual sex in many, many months (even then it was only once per month because I cannot use the pill and he won't use condoms). Oh this sounds like a sorry mess in writing! Aside from this, we are supremely close, confidential and warm, and as a human being I trust him implicitly. Yet something is wrong here. I have been feeling less and less involved with him over the past 12 months, and the sexual distance is beginning to really frustrate me. I would stand by him until the end of the world, if only I felt that he at least desired, wanted me. When I attempt to discuss this, he reverts to self defense mode, even though he isn't under attack, and simply states that all is well in that department. But it is not.
Recently he has begun to exhibit some of the old behavior patterns which concern me: two nights ago he up and left as we were about to eat a meal I had cooked because I was frustrated about hanging some blinds in a bedroom. When I asked him what the hell was wrong, he just said he couldn't take any stress. This was so damned minimal that I wondered about his sanity for a moment - and after trying to get him to talk, he simply got up and left, slamming the door and not contacting me until 3am tonight. This is the first time anything of this kind has happened in many years, so I feel incredibly apprehensive. We have discussed ending the relationship on the telephone, and I am amazed at how little emotion he has towards it. It's like he cares, deeply, but something feels so distant, almost deadened in the romantic sense.
As for myself, I am concerned about making more mistakes, continuing a negative cycle, no matter how well we generally get along. I love him very much, but I feel that there is no real, sexual spark anymore, and often find myself wondering about new experiences. I have wondered if I am really undesirable, off putting, or whether (like my family and friends say), I have simply forgotten what it feels like to be needed or desired by a man. This is horribly candid, but I worry about never being able to experience a fully erect penis ever again.
I have always coped very well as a single unit, and don't exactly fear leaving him, yet I am also quite isolated where I live now, and many of my friends and contacts have moved away. I very much need to repair myself from this current issue, and with so many instances of similar problems in our past, I am wondering if I will ever get out of this endless circle of 'starting and ending'.
I have never once left him, in all the years we have known each other. It has always been him who culls it. I feel that this is what he is leading to now, so I am preparing myself for another round of picking up the pieces of another failed attempt.
I want to feel positive about my future rather than this sensation of static, this weird lethargy. If I am going to be in a relationship at all, I need regular sex, or at least a man who occasionally expresses desire for me. I would be willing to work with him on this, but he won't budge or open up. We have been together too long now to imagine that this is a passing glitch, right? It's like I have to repair from heartbreak every 4 years or so, when he bails out on me again. And like clockwork we drift back together and he appears to have moved on for the better.
How do you finally end a cycle like this, with someone so dear to you, yet evidently incompatible in many vital areas? I have had to focus on his negative traits to express my question, yet for the most part he is a beautiful soul with whom I have a very strong connection. Our time together, as companions, is very relaxing, open and pleasant, and we share similar beliefs, fears and ideas. I would never hurt him, and yet I also feel that leaving him wouldn't exactly bother him right now, so long as I remain his friend.
This is all serving to make me feel worthless, so I think that I shall have to come to some sort of resolution. I am tired of renewing my faith and trust in something that ultimately wounds me. And due to my current isolation (I work freelance from home), my confidence in moving on is somewhat shaky. I am usually quite a strong, optimistic sort, yet the lack of sexual attention and routine has left me wondering if I could ever truly be desired by another. My mother, bless her, seems to think that I will have nothing to worry about due to me still looking like I'm in my early twenties - but what the hell? I might do better to appear my own age, and attract likewise ;)
And for the record, he doesn't appear to be interested in anyone else. Although we can never presume certainty in such things, this is just my own opinion at present. I am, of course, no angel, and have my own particular faults, although I am fairly easy going with him (not to the extent of being passive by any stretch of the imagination), and feel that I really don't quite deserve this deal. I am not especially concerned about marriage, but it kind of sucks that the only time he ever actually proposed was when he wished to stop me studying across the country.
Any advice or thoughts would be so welcome.
Thanks for bearing with me!
(I am from the UK, by the way, and the spellcheck doth protest to much)
Wow. That was hard to read, I can't imagine how hard it would be to live it. I really don't know what you're getting out of the relationship but I do understand why you'd find it hard to leave, given that you've been with him since you were so young, you probably don't know anything other than him. You have to leave him, now. If you don't have a strong support system, get therapy to help you through it and in the meantime try to get some hobbies etc that get you out of the house and expand your social circle so there's other people in your life you can rely on. You can do so much better. This man is not good for you.
posted by Jubey at 3:46 AM on April 21, 2011 [10 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 3:46 AM on April 21, 2011 [10 favorites]
This person has destroyed your perception of what a relationship is and of your self worth. The amount of years you have endured this is staggering and I know it is nearly impossible to convince someone to get out of this kind of hellish trap when that is all they have ever seen. But you must want to get out, otherwise you would not have written this.
So get out. Reach out for any support you need. Therapy, support groups, anything. Understand that there is urgency in this matter, as you have already wasted so many irreplaceable years of your life in a miserable and useless torture. Also your resolve may weaken... And nobody else will help you.
Go. Go. Go now!
posted by CautionToTheWind at 3:56 AM on April 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
So get out. Reach out for any support you need. Therapy, support groups, anything. Understand that there is urgency in this matter, as you have already wasted so many irreplaceable years of your life in a miserable and useless torture. Also your resolve may weaken... And nobody else will help you.
Go. Go. Go now!
posted by CautionToTheWind at 3:56 AM on April 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
And he is not a beautiful soul. He is a horrible, manipulative and destructive soul that is consuming you.
posted by CautionToTheWind at 3:57 AM on April 21, 2011 [40 favorites]
posted by CautionToTheWind at 3:57 AM on April 21, 2011 [40 favorites]
You've given him 18 years of your life already and it doesn't sound like he fully appreciates or values that in the way he should or that you want/need him to. At this point it's habit rather than anything fulfilling and from the way you write this, you know it - he sounds controlling and you sound more than willing not to put up with that anymore.
It is scary to jump on ahead into the unknown but you cannot move forward with your life until you shed this deadweight relationship, so keep reminding yourself that you already have given this more chances than it deserved, you know it doesn't satisfy you, and you can't move on to something better (there is much better out there) without letting it go. At some point, you've just got to cut your losses. You worthy of more than this - give yourself the chance to discover that.
posted by flex at 4:03 AM on April 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
It is scary to jump on ahead into the unknown but you cannot move forward with your life until you shed this deadweight relationship, so keep reminding yourself that you already have given this more chances than it deserved, you know it doesn't satisfy you, and you can't move on to something better (there is much better out there) without letting it go. At some point, you've just got to cut your losses. You worthy of more than this - give yourself the chance to discover that.
posted by flex at 4:03 AM on April 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Maybe this is just due to the length and detail of your post, but I get the impression that you've got an extremely myopic perspective on all of this; you're so close to the subject that it fills your whole field of vision, and you can't see anything else. You got involved when you were very young, and have stayed involved for a very long time. You feel socially isolated. Perhaps you keep going back to him because you are unaware of other options, and he is the default solution to loneliness and isolation? You're not sure you even believe that there are better options available to you. It's as if you doubt the existence of oceans because you've never been to the beach.
I'm sure he's got his good qualities, but I think the solution to this will require that you cut off contact with him for a good long while. Years, probably. If you keep using him as an easy and available salve to your loneliness, you won't have the gumption to get out of your constrained world and find other options. This guy is never going to give you the happy future you want and deserve. He is a package deal -- the closeness and the abandonment will always go hand in hand, if you accept the former then the latter will be rammed down your throat whether you like it or not. It seems pretty clear that that's the only deal he's capable of offering.
I don't think it takes a complex strategy to break away from this cycle. You just need to not let yourself forget that it is a cycle, and chose accordingly.
posted by jon1270 at 4:35 AM on April 21, 2011 [18 favorites]
I'm sure he's got his good qualities, but I think the solution to this will require that you cut off contact with him for a good long while. Years, probably. If you keep using him as an easy and available salve to your loneliness, you won't have the gumption to get out of your constrained world and find other options. This guy is never going to give you the happy future you want and deserve. He is a package deal -- the closeness and the abandonment will always go hand in hand, if you accept the former then the latter will be rammed down your throat whether you like it or not. It seems pretty clear that that's the only deal he's capable of offering.
I don't think it takes a complex strategy to break away from this cycle. You just need to not let yourself forget that it is a cycle, and chose accordingly.
posted by jon1270 at 4:35 AM on April 21, 2011 [18 favorites]
This man is poison for you. He isn't willing/able to support you, be in an equal relationship or love you the way you deserve. He is a negative immature person. Of course he's not interested in anyone else -- he's got you on a string, endlessly dropping you off a cliff and then 'rescuing' you when it is convenient for him.
Take a closer look at your life -- the lethargy, the isolation, shaky confidence -- these are all indications of how bad this relationship is for you. It sounds like a classic case of abuse - he might not physically hit you but he's certainly used you as his emotional and psychological punching bag, hasn't he?
Beautiful soul? Strong connection? Relaxing companion? No. No. No. He's an asshole. He expected you to entertain a guest after you'd just had a miscarriage. That right there? And the fact you didn't dump his ass that moment? That's how he knew you'd stay no matter how much crap he shoved down your throat.
Stop letting him drag you down with him and get back to YOUR life.
posted by jaimystery at 4:35 AM on April 21, 2011 [11 favorites]
Take a closer look at your life -- the lethargy, the isolation, shaky confidence -- these are all indications of how bad this relationship is for you. It sounds like a classic case of abuse - he might not physically hit you but he's certainly used you as his emotional and psychological punching bag, hasn't he?
Beautiful soul? Strong connection? Relaxing companion? No. No. No. He's an asshole. He expected you to entertain a guest after you'd just had a miscarriage. That right there? And the fact you didn't dump his ass that moment? That's how he knew you'd stay no matter how much crap he shoved down your throat.
Stop letting him drag you down with him and get back to YOUR life.
posted by jaimystery at 4:35 AM on April 21, 2011 [11 favorites]
There is so, SO much more love out there in the world for you.
Go forth and find it - as those before say, let go of this negative part of your life and seek love instead, like a flower looks to the sun, whether from friends or new people who will come into your life.
posted by greenish at 4:36 AM on April 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
Go forth and find it - as those before say, let go of this negative part of your life and seek love instead, like a flower looks to the sun, whether from friends or new people who will come into your life.
posted by greenish at 4:36 AM on April 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
I am tired of renewing my faith and trust in something that ultimately wounds me.
I quoted you in bold rather than italics because this really stands out. You can't trust him for any support, according to your own list of examples. But he can trust you to always be there for him. You're tired of this because you're being vampirized. I use the term "vampirized" knowingly, because I've been where you are and know what it's like. "Vampires" are charming and generous when it doesn't cost them much and gets them benefits (sex, support), then drop you like a hot potato as soon as they might need to behave like a mature, responsible, supportive adult. You're left paying the price: your energy, your life, your potential. As previous commenters have said, he's all you've known; please recognize that there are people in this world who will love you and support you as much as you love and support them.
And I hope you don't feel guilty when reading responses here – I've been through very similar relationships. It takes a leap of faith to stop the cycle, but the silver lining to the storm cloud is that you've got an immense amount of faith that just needs to be redirected towards the idea of a mutually supportive, mutually loving relationship. Hold on to that idea and it will flourish in time, as you ponder what it means for you personally; it will bear fruit; you'll grow able to recognize healthy potential partners. You'll no longer be the only one giving, because you'll have invested faith in yourself that will give you new insight.
posted by fraula at 4:41 AM on April 21, 2011 [12 favorites]
I quoted you in bold rather than italics because this really stands out. You can't trust him for any support, according to your own list of examples. But he can trust you to always be there for him. You're tired of this because you're being vampirized. I use the term "vampirized" knowingly, because I've been where you are and know what it's like. "Vampires" are charming and generous when it doesn't cost them much and gets them benefits (sex, support), then drop you like a hot potato as soon as they might need to behave like a mature, responsible, supportive adult. You're left paying the price: your energy, your life, your potential. As previous commenters have said, he's all you've known; please recognize that there are people in this world who will love you and support you as much as you love and support them.
And I hope you don't feel guilty when reading responses here – I've been through very similar relationships. It takes a leap of faith to stop the cycle, but the silver lining to the storm cloud is that you've got an immense amount of faith that just needs to be redirected towards the idea of a mutually supportive, mutually loving relationship. Hold on to that idea and it will flourish in time, as you ponder what it means for you personally; it will bear fruit; you'll grow able to recognize healthy potential partners. You'll no longer be the only one giving, because you'll have invested faith in yourself that will give you new insight.
posted by fraula at 4:41 AM on April 21, 2011 [12 favorites]
Best answer: The hardest thing will not be deciding to end it, or stopping contact with him. The hardest thing will be looking back with the benefit of perspective and realising you wasted 18 years of your life in this thing that is not a relationship.
You need to understand this and do it anyway.
posted by corvine at 5:05 AM on April 21, 2011 [11 favorites]
You need to understand this and do it anyway.
posted by corvine at 5:05 AM on April 21, 2011 [11 favorites]
You can do this! Check your MeFi mail! :)
posted by headnsouth at 5:38 AM on April 21, 2011
posted by headnsouth at 5:38 AM on April 21, 2011
Response by poster: jaimystery At first this statement concerning cases of abuse sounds shocking, but I can see your point. I was literally overwhelmed when I began to read these comments, ashamed that I had possibly exaggerated our story, done him a disservice. But no. I don't think that his behavior is necessarily intentional (I would probably put it down to depression, or such like), but I can no longer excuse it. He must also be aware of this negative pattern, yet never attempts to understand or alter it. I am fighting this battle alone.
Thank you so very much for replying - all of you. I feel a little shellshocked by having done this at the moment, but curiously relieved that I did.
...
These comments have somehow 'forced' perspective upon me, and yet this perspective is entirely my own.
posted by noella at 6:17 AM on April 21, 2011 [4 favorites]
Thank you so very much for replying - all of you. I feel a little shellshocked by having done this at the moment, but curiously relieved that I did.
...
These comments have somehow 'forced' perspective upon me, and yet this perspective is entirely my own.
posted by noella at 6:17 AM on April 21, 2011 [4 favorites]
I honestly had to stop reading after this:
He never behaved in an 'unstable' manner through any of this either: his tone and attitude was always calm, thoughtful and even gentle at times. I think that if he had been outright crazy or aggressive I would have walked out early on.
Everything you described on his part is unstable. Every reaction. The very nature of his reactions is by definition unstable: they are so bizarre, and so unpredictable, so abnormal, so unexpected.
When you are around crazy people, so involved and for so long, you absolutely start to think that you are the crazy one, and should therefore adapt yourself to fit them. But this is not normal. His behavior is outright crazy.
And getting angry with you because you are napping after the hospital instead of entertaining his friend? Inspecting your underwear out of jealousy?? That is aggressive.
Even if his behavior was a result of the stress of his job giving CPR to orphaned babies 20 hours a day, that would not make it your responsibility, your lot in life, to suffer through his taking that stress out on you.
Just because he wants to be with you does not mean you should be with him. It’s not up to him to decide whether you should be together. It’s not up to him to decide whether you should want what you want.
And by the way, he does not want to be with you. He wants to be with someone like who, but who acts, thinks, and feels exactly and only how he wants her to act, think, and feel. You have tried to be that person for too long, but you are not that person. Trying to be that person has made you absolutely miserable. It’s okay to somewhat adapt yourself and your expectations for a partner, but it should make you happy. HAPPY!!! Joyful, hopeful, pleased, excited, loved, accepted…. Do you feel any of that with him?
posted by thebazilist at 7:21 AM on April 21, 2011 [9 favorites]
He never behaved in an 'unstable' manner through any of this either: his tone and attitude was always calm, thoughtful and even gentle at times. I think that if he had been outright crazy or aggressive I would have walked out early on.
Everything you described on his part is unstable. Every reaction. The very nature of his reactions is by definition unstable: they are so bizarre, and so unpredictable, so abnormal, so unexpected.
When you are around crazy people, so involved and for so long, you absolutely start to think that you are the crazy one, and should therefore adapt yourself to fit them. But this is not normal. His behavior is outright crazy.
And getting angry with you because you are napping after the hospital instead of entertaining his friend? Inspecting your underwear out of jealousy?? That is aggressive.
Even if his behavior was a result of the stress of his job giving CPR to orphaned babies 20 hours a day, that would not make it your responsibility, your lot in life, to suffer through his taking that stress out on you.
Just because he wants to be with you does not mean you should be with him. It’s not up to him to decide whether you should be together. It’s not up to him to decide whether you should want what you want.
And by the way, he does not want to be with you. He wants to be with someone like who, but who acts, thinks, and feels exactly and only how he wants her to act, think, and feel. You have tried to be that person for too long, but you are not that person. Trying to be that person has made you absolutely miserable. It’s okay to somewhat adapt yourself and your expectations for a partner, but it should make you happy. HAPPY!!! Joyful, hopeful, pleased, excited, loved, accepted…. Do you feel any of that with him?
posted by thebazilist at 7:21 AM on April 21, 2011 [9 favorites]
Also, you probably need to move someplace closer to your friends and family that's also VERY far away from him.
- Do this as a way of sparking your appetite for creating an entirely new life for yourself.
- Do this to make slipping back into old patterns impossible.
- Do this as a sacred and concrete statement to yourself that you have changed.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 7:24 AM on April 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
- Do this as a way of sparking your appetite for creating an entirely new life for yourself.
- Do this to make slipping back into old patterns impossible.
- Do this as a sacred and concrete statement to yourself that you have changed.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 7:24 AM on April 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
Best answer: This is really, really important, and I have the sense from reading what you wrote that you may not fully believe it:
You deserve to have your needs met. You deserve to be treated with respect and kindness. You deserve sex. You deserve to feel special and wanted. You deserve to be heard when you have something to say. You deserve to trust. You deserve to feel secure.
When someone is not meeting your needs, you have the right to walk away. This includes good people. Being a good person is not a license to make others unhappy, even unintentionally. There are thousands of good people in your city, and lots of them would be terrible partners for you. You don't owe them a relationship because they have certain good qualities. You don't owe anyone a relationship. You do not owe this guy a relationship.
His positive qualities are not relevant. He is not giving you what you need. You are not happy. Your self esteem seems undermined. It doesn't matter whether he is hurting you intentionally or inadvertently. He's hurting you. Walk away. You deserve to not be hurt.
If you were in the kitchen with me while I was cooking and I kept clumsily dropping knives on your feet and splashing burning oil on you and spilling pepper in your face, after a few incidents you would just back away from me and stay out of the kitchen. Even if I were your best friend and the nicest human in the universe and had just cured AIDS and rescued a puppy and terraformed the moon. Because you don't want a knife to fall on your foot and you instinctively retreat from that.
This guy is hurting you. Repeatedly. Back away from him. The safe distance is no contact ever again in this lifetime.
posted by prefpara at 7:28 AM on April 21, 2011 [37 favorites]
You deserve to have your needs met. You deserve to be treated with respect and kindness. You deserve sex. You deserve to feel special and wanted. You deserve to be heard when you have something to say. You deserve to trust. You deserve to feel secure.
When someone is not meeting your needs, you have the right to walk away. This includes good people. Being a good person is not a license to make others unhappy, even unintentionally. There are thousands of good people in your city, and lots of them would be terrible partners for you. You don't owe them a relationship because they have certain good qualities. You don't owe anyone a relationship. You do not owe this guy a relationship.
His positive qualities are not relevant. He is not giving you what you need. You are not happy. Your self esteem seems undermined. It doesn't matter whether he is hurting you intentionally or inadvertently. He's hurting you. Walk away. You deserve to not be hurt.
If you were in the kitchen with me while I was cooking and I kept clumsily dropping knives on your feet and splashing burning oil on you and spilling pepper in your face, after a few incidents you would just back away from me and stay out of the kitchen. Even if I were your best friend and the nicest human in the universe and had just cured AIDS and rescued a puppy and terraformed the moon. Because you don't want a knife to fall on your foot and you instinctively retreat from that.
This guy is hurting you. Repeatedly. Back away from him. The safe distance is no contact ever again in this lifetime.
posted by prefpara at 7:28 AM on April 21, 2011 [37 favorites]
I am at a loss for words to talk about how breathtakingly awful this man has been to you.
Someone in another thread once commented that he got so used to driving his car that he was shocked, when someone else borrowed it, to hear that the alignment was totally off and the car was constantly pulling to one side. He was comparing this to a bad relationship: the bad relationship dynamic becomes your "normal" and you don't realize that it's so wrong, so off-balance, just as he didn't realize how much his car was pulling to one side because he was just used to steering it back the other way. Which is all to say that I think you need to find a way to re-learn "normal."
You say, "It's like he cares, deeply..." This is not what caring looks like. None of this. None of what you describe is caring, or loving, or good, even when you talk about his beautiful soul and the strong connection you share. Sure, he's a nice companion when he's getting what he wants and you don't need anything from him: that's easy. Real caring, real love shows through someone's behavior toward you when you've lost a pregnancy, when you're suffering through anxiety, when you've been raped, when you're having trouble in school, when a member of your family is seriously ill, when you're making big decisions about your life, when you're in pain--and on and on. Those times when you have needed him most and he has abandoned you? Those are the times that show whether or not he cares. He has shown, over and over and over, that regardless of what he says in non-crisis times, he does not really care about you.
You need to find a way to recalibrate your sense of normal after 18 years of accepting awful, unstable, bizarre, and immature behavior from someone who said he cared about you. I don't know if therapy is the best option for you, or a support group of some kind, or simply moving and making new friends. But you need to find a way to re-learn normal. At 19, you hadn't formed a full sense of what appropriate, respectful, and loving adult relationships feel like and he was able to convince you that what he was offering (and periodically taking away) was normal and acceptable, even fun and desirable. You can choose to learn a better, healthier way to live, and it shouldn't include him.
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:23 AM on April 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
Someone in another thread once commented that he got so used to driving his car that he was shocked, when someone else borrowed it, to hear that the alignment was totally off and the car was constantly pulling to one side. He was comparing this to a bad relationship: the bad relationship dynamic becomes your "normal" and you don't realize that it's so wrong, so off-balance, just as he didn't realize how much his car was pulling to one side because he was just used to steering it back the other way. Which is all to say that I think you need to find a way to re-learn "normal."
You say, "It's like he cares, deeply..." This is not what caring looks like. None of this. None of what you describe is caring, or loving, or good, even when you talk about his beautiful soul and the strong connection you share. Sure, he's a nice companion when he's getting what he wants and you don't need anything from him: that's easy. Real caring, real love shows through someone's behavior toward you when you've lost a pregnancy, when you're suffering through anxiety, when you've been raped, when you're having trouble in school, when a member of your family is seriously ill, when you're making big decisions about your life, when you're in pain--and on and on. Those times when you have needed him most and he has abandoned you? Those are the times that show whether or not he cares. He has shown, over and over and over, that regardless of what he says in non-crisis times, he does not really care about you.
You need to find a way to recalibrate your sense of normal after 18 years of accepting awful, unstable, bizarre, and immature behavior from someone who said he cared about you. I don't know if therapy is the best option for you, or a support group of some kind, or simply moving and making new friends. But you need to find a way to re-learn normal. At 19, you hadn't formed a full sense of what appropriate, respectful, and loving adult relationships feel like and he was able to convince you that what he was offering (and periodically taking away) was normal and acceptable, even fun and desirable. You can choose to learn a better, healthier way to live, and it shouldn't include him.
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:23 AM on April 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: I hope that it's ok to add a little more detail, to fill in a few blanks? If the thread would be better continuing without me popping up then just let me know and I can merrily bugger off;)
Ok, on a day to day basis, and for most of the past few years, our lives have been peaceful and quite happy. Alright, so there's the ever diminishing sex, the lack of romance, and the weird sensation of not wishing to push discussion in an direction which might stress him - but he isn't anything like a bully, nor does he interfere in my personal affairs any longer, for his manipulative jealous behaviors were early on in the relationship, and haven't been present for around 10 yrs. The new behaviors are the exact opposite, a sort of disregard or lack of interest in my life, sex, who I might be lusting after, etc. The exact opposite of possessive can be just as disturbing. It is like he has crawled into a self protective hole, which sadly enables him to disregard our connection on a deeper level. He recently told me that his stress levels are so high that his doctor told him he was in danger of illness, a technique he has often resorted to in the past to keep me feeling ...guilty/quiet? Oddly he manages to take on immense work projects and has a lot of involvements with other artists within his field. He is basically never still, yet advises me not to talk of relationship needs because it damages him.
As friends, we can chat for hours without a break, the problem is if the relationship is mentioned, or if i ask anything from him like his time, plans to have a day out, make room for fun, and so on. And also, this re-emergence of his penchant for abandonment is a flag so bloody red that it knocks ordinary shades of red straight off the colour chart.
So he isn't a monster exactly, or if he is, he's a pretty slick one. And as some of you have illustrated above, he simply knows I've always been there, and possibly presumes I always will be. Our time apart has usually lasted a few years, occasionally with a scattering of short lived new relationships in-between. So even though I have had other experience, he is still the largest romantic aspect of my history.
I am not trying to redeem him, I promise: but I do wish to present the case as fairly as possible.
We spoke briefly today, he was friendly and basically behaves as if nothing has happened. I would imagine my suggestion of ending the relationship is something of a relief to him. This is how his cycles tend to work. At present he seems to be relieved that I haven't mentioned patching up the relationship. It is his time to bow out, and it is highly convenient for him if I tell him it is over. He behaved similarly 5 yrs ago after I had suffered a rape: he took leave after 6 months of standing by me by telling me the hurt I would feel over him deserting me would make me a stronger person.
In response to a comment above: I do live out of town now, and he has to travel some miles to see me, so I am not in any danger of running into him very often.
Apologies for the interruption. It has been good for me to get that out. Symbolically speaking.
Perhaps it is time for me to begin a new cycle, of my own.
Thankyou so much, again x
posted by noella at 8:42 AM on April 21, 2011
Ok, on a day to day basis, and for most of the past few years, our lives have been peaceful and quite happy. Alright, so there's the ever diminishing sex, the lack of romance, and the weird sensation of not wishing to push discussion in an direction which might stress him - but he isn't anything like a bully, nor does he interfere in my personal affairs any longer, for his manipulative jealous behaviors were early on in the relationship, and haven't been present for around 10 yrs. The new behaviors are the exact opposite, a sort of disregard or lack of interest in my life, sex, who I might be lusting after, etc. The exact opposite of possessive can be just as disturbing. It is like he has crawled into a self protective hole, which sadly enables him to disregard our connection on a deeper level. He recently told me that his stress levels are so high that his doctor told him he was in danger of illness, a technique he has often resorted to in the past to keep me feeling ...guilty/quiet? Oddly he manages to take on immense work projects and has a lot of involvements with other artists within his field. He is basically never still, yet advises me not to talk of relationship needs because it damages him.
As friends, we can chat for hours without a break, the problem is if the relationship is mentioned, or if i ask anything from him like his time, plans to have a day out, make room for fun, and so on. And also, this re-emergence of his penchant for abandonment is a flag so bloody red that it knocks ordinary shades of red straight off the colour chart.
So he isn't a monster exactly, or if he is, he's a pretty slick one. And as some of you have illustrated above, he simply knows I've always been there, and possibly presumes I always will be. Our time apart has usually lasted a few years, occasionally with a scattering of short lived new relationships in-between. So even though I have had other experience, he is still the largest romantic aspect of my history.
I am not trying to redeem him, I promise: but I do wish to present the case as fairly as possible.
We spoke briefly today, he was friendly and basically behaves as if nothing has happened. I would imagine my suggestion of ending the relationship is something of a relief to him. This is how his cycles tend to work. At present he seems to be relieved that I haven't mentioned patching up the relationship. It is his time to bow out, and it is highly convenient for him if I tell him it is over. He behaved similarly 5 yrs ago after I had suffered a rape: he took leave after 6 months of standing by me by telling me the hurt I would feel over him deserting me would make me a stronger person.
In response to a comment above: I do live out of town now, and he has to travel some miles to see me, so I am not in any danger of running into him very often.
Apologies for the interruption. It has been good for me to get that out. Symbolically speaking.
Perhaps it is time for me to begin a new cycle, of my own.
Thankyou so much, again x
posted by noella at 8:42 AM on April 21, 2011
Response by poster: Actually, the very night I was raped he tried to instigate sex with me an hour later while I was still insensible. I have never uttered this out loud to anyone, and placing it here simply adds to my resolve.
I have allowed time to swallow my memory, evidently.
posted by noella at 8:45 AM on April 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
I have allowed time to swallow my memory, evidently.
posted by noella at 8:45 AM on April 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
Seriously, get rid of this guy.
posted by bluishorange at 8:55 AM on April 21, 2011
posted by bluishorange at 8:55 AM on April 21, 2011
Best answer: In Groundhog Day, the main character lived the same day over and over. He got bored, frustrated, the whole gamut. He learned to see the world differently. Although the day was always the same, his experience was new every time. When he had learned what he needed to learn from his relationship with the town in Groundhog Day, he was able to move on to the third of February.
posted by aniola at 9:00 AM on April 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by aniola at 9:00 AM on April 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
Holy shit, noella. I am so sorry.
posted by salvia at 9:07 AM on April 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by salvia at 9:07 AM on April 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
So he isn't a monster exactly
the very night I was raped he tried to instigate sex with me an hour later
Whatever he is, you don't need him in your life.
posted by Meg_Murry at 9:11 AM on April 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
the very night I was raped he tried to instigate sex with me an hour later
Whatever he is, you don't need him in your life.
posted by Meg_Murry at 9:11 AM on April 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
It is an abusive relationship. I have had to leave two very close, non-romantic abusive relationships before - my mother and a long-time best friend. It takes time and perspective to be able to see them for what they are. It sounds like you have been getting some time and perspective.
I used to hear "abusive" and think "oh, that means someone who is BAD." That's not the case at all. An abusive relationship is a relationship that is only sometimes good: "but s/he's a good person, and we get along well" - that is true. A person can be a GOOD person and still have a relationship with you that is sometimes unhealthy.
I left each of those two relationships when I realized that the good outweighed the bad. It was hard, and I try to acknowledge the negative when I need to - as you needed to in your post - but to otherwise keep a welcome home for them as a part of my past by remembering what I loved about them when I knew them.
Here's a song by Dar Williams for you:
I used to hear "abusive" and think "oh, that means someone who is BAD." That's not the case at all. An abusive relationship is a relationship that is only sometimes good: "but s/he's a good person, and we get along well" - that is true. A person can be a GOOD person and still have a relationship with you that is sometimes unhealthy.
I left each of those two relationships when I realized that the good outweighed the bad. It was hard, and I try to acknowledge the negative when I need to - as you needed to in your post - but to otherwise keep a welcome home for them as a part of my past by remembering what I loved about them when I knew them.
Here's a song by Dar Williams for you:
Here's wishing you the bluest skyposted by lover at 9:27 AM on April 21, 2011
And hoping something better comes tomorrow
Hoping all the verses rhyme,
And the very best of choruses to
Follow all the doubt and sadness
I know that better things are on their way.
Here's hoping that the days ahead
Won't be as bitter as the ones behind you
Be an optimist instead,
And somehow happiness will find you.
Forget what happened yesterday,
I know that better things are on their way.
It's really good to see you rocking out
And having fun,
Living like you've just begun.
Accept your life and what it brings,
I hope tomorrow you find better things.
I know tomorrow you'll find better things.
Here's wishing you the bluest sky
And hoping something better comes tomorrow
Hoping all the verses rhyme,
And the very best of choruses to
Follow all the drudge and sadness
I know that better things are on the way.
I know you've got a lot of good things happening up ahead.
The past is gone, it's all been said.
So here's to what the future brings,
I know tomorrow you'll find better things.
I know tomorrow you'll find better things.
Best answer: Noella, I need to be a bit harsh, here. You still seem to want to convince yourself that he "cares deeply". To which I reply: cite?
You say "he isn't a monster exactly, or if he is, he's a pretty slick one". You know that if wolves dropped their sheep's clothing, their hunts would be unsuccessful, right? If abusers weren't charming, they couldn't trap victims.
This is not love. This is selfishness (him) and slavishness (you). He kept you on your toes, didn't he? Never knowing what remark, what question, what illness or what need of yours would set him off and drive him out. I bet in the past, you have told yourself that he is special, and requires special consideration, and that a non-special woman such as yourself must simply rise above her weak, womanly needs.
Bullshit.
Don't sign on for an ever-increasing workload with an ever-decreasing return.
posted by likeso at 9:28 AM on April 21, 2011 [9 favorites]
You say "he isn't a monster exactly, or if he is, he's a pretty slick one". You know that if wolves dropped their sheep's clothing, their hunts would be unsuccessful, right? If abusers weren't charming, they couldn't trap victims.
This is not love. This is selfishness (him) and slavishness (you). He kept you on your toes, didn't he? Never knowing what remark, what question, what illness or what need of yours would set him off and drive him out. I bet in the past, you have told yourself that he is special, and requires special consideration, and that a non-special woman such as yourself must simply rise above her weak, womanly needs.
Bullshit.
Don't sign on for an ever-increasing workload with an ever-decreasing return.
posted by likeso at 9:28 AM on April 21, 2011 [9 favorites]
You've given this jerk the better part of 15 years of your life so far.
Do you really want to give him a minute more?
posted by brand-gnu at 9:35 AM on April 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Do you really want to give him a minute more?
posted by brand-gnu at 9:35 AM on April 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
So he isn't a monster exactly
the very night I was raped he tried to instigate sex with me an hour later
Actually, yes. A monster is exactly what he is. You deserve so much better than this. You deserve to be around people whose actions show that they care about you.
Hugs to you. Because this behavior is so completely not okay coming from anyone, let alone someone with whom you are "supremely close."
The world is full of wonderful people who will treat you the way you deserve. I promise.
posted by corey flood at 9:35 AM on April 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
the very night I was raped he tried to instigate sex with me an hour later
Actually, yes. A monster is exactly what he is. You deserve so much better than this. You deserve to be around people whose actions show that they care about you.
Hugs to you. Because this behavior is so completely not okay coming from anyone, let alone someone with whom you are "supremely close."
The world is full of wonderful people who will treat you the way you deserve. I promise.
posted by corey flood at 9:35 AM on April 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: This is one of the saddest questions I've read at ask in a while.
I was in an abusive relationship. It was totally different from what you're describing, and yet somehow exactly the same. There was no physical abuse, but a friend recently described my experience as "the worst thing he's ever heard of in a voluntary relationship". The thing about abusers is that they somehow have the ability to make you think that you're wrong somehow, that the bad things that are going on around you are your fault no matter the massive evidence to the contrary.
It took me a long time after I left to stop being bewildered (you sound strikingly like me at the end of that relationship, you seem horribly lost and confused) and to realize the emotional scarring and the horrible horrible ways I was disregarded. I want to give you a hug and tell you it will all be ok. It will be ok, eventually. After you leave, you'll wake up one day and you'll be angry instead of confused, and everything will start to make sense.
Leaving her became a process of reintegrating my own personality after having it shattered. I got to have my own thoughts again, and my own opinions, uncolored by hers. There are still moments I want to be apologetic for her actions, as though they were somehow my fault, but as time passes those moments are fewer and fewer between. It does get better.
posted by zug at 9:46 AM on April 21, 2011 [7 favorites]
I was in an abusive relationship. It was totally different from what you're describing, and yet somehow exactly the same. There was no physical abuse, but a friend recently described my experience as "the worst thing he's ever heard of in a voluntary relationship". The thing about abusers is that they somehow have the ability to make you think that you're wrong somehow, that the bad things that are going on around you are your fault no matter the massive evidence to the contrary.
It took me a long time after I left to stop being bewildered (you sound strikingly like me at the end of that relationship, you seem horribly lost and confused) and to realize the emotional scarring and the horrible horrible ways I was disregarded. I want to give you a hug and tell you it will all be ok. It will be ok, eventually. After you leave, you'll wake up one day and you'll be angry instead of confused, and everything will start to make sense.
Leaving her became a process of reintegrating my own personality after having it shattered. I got to have my own thoughts again, and my own opinions, uncolored by hers. There are still moments I want to be apologetic for her actions, as though they were somehow my fault, but as time passes those moments are fewer and fewer between. It does get better.
posted by zug at 9:46 AM on April 21, 2011 [7 favorites]
Ok, on a day to day basis, and for most of the past few years, our lives have been peaceful and quite happy. Alright, so there's the ever diminishing sex, the lack of romance, and the weird sensation of not wishing to push discussion in an direction which might stress him - but he isn't anything like a bully, nor does he interfere in my personal affairs any longer, for his manipulative jealous behaviors were early on in the relationship, and haven't been present for around 10 yrs.
This attitude is pretty common and in my opinion it's a matter of not having a good concept of "dealbreakers" in a relationship. I think most people could stay in a horribly dysfunctional relationship and remain relatively happy day-to-day. Just look at any culture where divorce is not an option and you will see plenty of people who cope with unsatisfactory relationships and still live normal lives for the most part. There was another AskMe question a while back from a guy whose fiance was great except for the fact that she would do things like go into a rage and threaten him with a knife from time to time. It's very easy to look at someone you genuinely love and forgive them for not being the kind of partner that can really make you happy, even though objectively all of your family and friends would know that you would be better off without them (and deep down you know it's true yourself).
To really be happy and have the kind of relationship you need, you have to have dealbreakers. If someone you are in a relationship with (even if you are married, have kids, etc.) does not provide you with your basic absolute minimum set of things you need to be truly happy, you need to end the relationship. Having some sort of sex life, being able to talk openly without being afraid that they will storm off, having them be there for you during times of crisis, and knowing that they care about you and want to be with you for the long term are all very reasonable and sane dealbreaker-worthy requirements. Pretty much everyone will be better off ending any relationship where those sorts of minimum needs are not met. You have to come up with a list of things you really need in a relationship, and not settle for anyone who does not meet those standards.
This is all serving to make me feel worthless, so I think that I shall have to come to some sort of resolution. I am tired of renewing my faith and trust in something that ultimately wounds me. And due to my current isolation (I work freelance from home), my confidence in moving on is somewhat shaky. I am usually quite a strong, optimistic sort, yet the lack of sexual attention and routine has left me wondering if I could ever truly be desired by another. My mother, bless her, seems to think that I will have nothing to worry about due to me still looking like I'm in my early twenties - but what the hell? I might do better to appear my own age, and attract likewise ;)
Staying in a bad relationship because you don't think you could ever be in a good relationship is not a healthy mindset to be in. Realistically there are many, many people you would be compatible with that would end up being a better partner than this guy. Looking younger than is not even close to something that you should worry about. I don't believe in soulmates or anything like that, but statistically there is somebody out there for pretty much everyone. What you really want is for this particular guy to be a significantly better partner for you than he is, and that's never going to happen. You have to give up on that, and once you do you can start trying to find someone who can be a good partner for you.
posted by burnmp3s at 9:53 AM on April 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
This attitude is pretty common and in my opinion it's a matter of not having a good concept of "dealbreakers" in a relationship. I think most people could stay in a horribly dysfunctional relationship and remain relatively happy day-to-day. Just look at any culture where divorce is not an option and you will see plenty of people who cope with unsatisfactory relationships and still live normal lives for the most part. There was another AskMe question a while back from a guy whose fiance was great except for the fact that she would do things like go into a rage and threaten him with a knife from time to time. It's very easy to look at someone you genuinely love and forgive them for not being the kind of partner that can really make you happy, even though objectively all of your family and friends would know that you would be better off without them (and deep down you know it's true yourself).
To really be happy and have the kind of relationship you need, you have to have dealbreakers. If someone you are in a relationship with (even if you are married, have kids, etc.) does not provide you with your basic absolute minimum set of things you need to be truly happy, you need to end the relationship. Having some sort of sex life, being able to talk openly without being afraid that they will storm off, having them be there for you during times of crisis, and knowing that they care about you and want to be with you for the long term are all very reasonable and sane dealbreaker-worthy requirements. Pretty much everyone will be better off ending any relationship where those sorts of minimum needs are not met. You have to come up with a list of things you really need in a relationship, and not settle for anyone who does not meet those standards.
This is all serving to make me feel worthless, so I think that I shall have to come to some sort of resolution. I am tired of renewing my faith and trust in something that ultimately wounds me. And due to my current isolation (I work freelance from home), my confidence in moving on is somewhat shaky. I am usually quite a strong, optimistic sort, yet the lack of sexual attention and routine has left me wondering if I could ever truly be desired by another. My mother, bless her, seems to think that I will have nothing to worry about due to me still looking like I'm in my early twenties - but what the hell? I might do better to appear my own age, and attract likewise ;)
Staying in a bad relationship because you don't think you could ever be in a good relationship is not a healthy mindset to be in. Realistically there are many, many people you would be compatible with that would end up being a better partner than this guy. Looking younger than is not even close to something that you should worry about. I don't believe in soulmates or anything like that, but statistically there is somebody out there for pretty much everyone. What you really want is for this particular guy to be a significantly better partner for you than he is, and that's never going to happen. You have to give up on that, and once you do you can start trying to find someone who can be a good partner for you.
posted by burnmp3s at 9:53 AM on April 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
Best answer: > My mother, bless her, seems to think that I will have nothing to worry about due to me still looking like I'm in my early twenties - but what the hell? I might do better to appear my own age, and attract likewise ;)
How do you break out of this cycle?
You do it by putting yourself in situations where you can again feel genuinely and ardently desired.
Spend an hour and put up an OKCupid ad.
Doll yourself up and treat yourself to a night on the town, with the idea that you are going to collect as many business cards as possible from as many exciting guys as possible.
You might even want to just book yourself a one-week trip-- take the holiday he's never taken you on, and let the native flora and fauna show you a good time.
In short, realize that your standards for pleasure have been dulled and lowered, and start, now, to raise them up again.
posted by darth_tedious at 9:58 AM on April 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
How do you break out of this cycle?
You do it by putting yourself in situations where you can again feel genuinely and ardently desired.
Spend an hour and put up an OKCupid ad.
Doll yourself up and treat yourself to a night on the town, with the idea that you are going to collect as many business cards as possible from as many exciting guys as possible.
You might even want to just book yourself a one-week trip-- take the holiday he's never taken you on, and let the native flora and fauna show you a good time.
In short, realize that your standards for pleasure have been dulled and lowered, and start, now, to raise them up again.
posted by darth_tedious at 9:58 AM on April 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
Meg_Murry and others have been thoughtful, wise and articulate.
To be less of those things, this guy is a monumentally fucked up mess and your life would be incalculably better without him in it.
As you seem to be realize, there is not enough fabric in the world to make all the red flags here.
Much a hope that, challenging as it is, you are able to get away from something and someone that is substantially detrimental to your best interests.
posted by ambient2 at 10:49 AM on April 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
To be less of those things, this guy is a monumentally fucked up mess and your life would be incalculably better without him in it.
As you seem to be realize, there is not enough fabric in the world to make all the red flags here.
Much a hope that, challenging as it is, you are able to get away from something and someone that is substantially detrimental to your best interests.
posted by ambient2 at 10:49 AM on April 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
I've seen great people, mostly, women, become shells of their former selves due to trying to contort to meet the needs of capricious "partners" and you deserve better.
I have found that zeroing the offensive person out does wonders; refuse to engage, erase their number, detach from their scheduled rounds of soul-zapping interaction.
What adventures did you dream about when you were 17? It's time to regain that mindset.
posted by MidSouthern Mouth at 11:06 AM on April 21, 2011 [5 favorites]
I have found that zeroing the offensive person out does wonders; refuse to engage, erase their number, detach from their scheduled rounds of soul-zapping interaction.
What adventures did you dream about when you were 17? It's time to regain that mindset.
posted by MidSouthern Mouth at 11:06 AM on April 21, 2011 [5 favorites]
You got into a relationship with this guy while he was a fully grown man in his 30s and you were a *teenager.* He took advantage of the fact that you were a teenager and didn't know anything about relationships, to treat you HORRIBLY. He trained you like an animal to cater to his whims and the things he wanted and didn't want, regardless of how selfish it was and the pain it caused you. This is the only thing you know so you don't even realize just how *shockingly* horrible his behavior is/was.
How do you get out of this cycle? I think the biggest thing that would help would be to gain a new perspective, because right now his behavior probably seems normal and comfortable to you, even if it also bothers you. I think therapy could really, really help you gain a new perspective. I'm worried even if you started dating someone else, that guy could act just like this one, and if you were still feeling familiar/comfortable with that behavior, the cycle would keep going.
posted by Ashley801 at 11:39 AM on April 21, 2011 [5 favorites]
How do you get out of this cycle? I think the biggest thing that would help would be to gain a new perspective, because right now his behavior probably seems normal and comfortable to you, even if it also bothers you. I think therapy could really, really help you gain a new perspective. I'm worried even if you started dating someone else, that guy could act just like this one, and if you were still feeling familiar/comfortable with that behavior, the cycle would keep going.
posted by Ashley801 at 11:39 AM on April 21, 2011 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Ashley801 I know where you're coming from. So much! Many times in the past when he has walked out, I have had to re-establish myself, learning more about myself through the process of healing. I am currently a little non-plussed with myself for even allowing this to float back into existence after his last betrayal in 2006. I learned so much at the time, and after a trauma that year had also gone through extensive therapy to come to terms with it all - which was successful.
So I came out of it with a new found self respect, and a clear view of what I would and wouldn't accept from others. I then embarked upon a six month relationship a year later with a great guy (we parted on amicable terms), and all seemed to be going well, and yet i still found myself floating back into a friendship with this guy once again (the guy in my post), and slowly the horrors of the past seemed to disperse, as if our new friendship had fresh dimensions. Perhaps this time I will learn that his fresh dimensions are nothing more than another fancy doorway to hell.
It is true that we have gravitated back into friendships when we have been single and at a loose-ish end. Maybe this time I need to keep a closer eye on my loose ends.
I am currently considering testing the waters with private therapy, hopefully with the help of my doctor (the NHS route is dreadful in my neck of the woods).
...
And thankyou again for sharing so much insight. Truly. When I am able to properly articulate myself I will try to express just how groundbreaking this thread has actually been for me.
He visited this afternoon to pick up some stuff, and acted as if nothing at all had happened. Normally at this stage in the breakup process I would chatter about my feelings, tell him how I felt, but this time i said nothing. All that I could think about was this post, that blinding light of clarity after writing it, my future. He was perhaps a little confused by my lack of gushing emotion, but seemed relieved not to have to mention our relationship had ever existed. He was extremely pleasant, yet I am beginning to get a clearer impression of the actual cruelty that this outward pleasantness disguises. I am quite certain that he has no concept of himself as remotely cruel. he is more experienced with playing the martyr, regardless who got hurt.
posted by noella at 12:06 PM on April 21, 2011 [5 favorites]
So I came out of it with a new found self respect, and a clear view of what I would and wouldn't accept from others. I then embarked upon a six month relationship a year later with a great guy (we parted on amicable terms), and all seemed to be going well, and yet i still found myself floating back into a friendship with this guy once again (the guy in my post), and slowly the horrors of the past seemed to disperse, as if our new friendship had fresh dimensions. Perhaps this time I will learn that his fresh dimensions are nothing more than another fancy doorway to hell.
It is true that we have gravitated back into friendships when we have been single and at a loose-ish end. Maybe this time I need to keep a closer eye on my loose ends.
I am currently considering testing the waters with private therapy, hopefully with the help of my doctor (the NHS route is dreadful in my neck of the woods).
...
And thankyou again for sharing so much insight. Truly. When I am able to properly articulate myself I will try to express just how groundbreaking this thread has actually been for me.
He visited this afternoon to pick up some stuff, and acted as if nothing at all had happened. Normally at this stage in the breakup process I would chatter about my feelings, tell him how I felt, but this time i said nothing. All that I could think about was this post, that blinding light of clarity after writing it, my future. He was perhaps a little confused by my lack of gushing emotion, but seemed relieved not to have to mention our relationship had ever existed. He was extremely pleasant, yet I am beginning to get a clearer impression of the actual cruelty that this outward pleasantness disguises. I am quite certain that he has no concept of himself as remotely cruel. he is more experienced with playing the martyr, regardless who got hurt.
posted by noella at 12:06 PM on April 21, 2011 [5 favorites]
Best answer: OP, from every thing I've read abusers never see themselves as abusers but as victims. One reason they are so charming, so convincing and why their victims often wonder what is wrong with themselves is that the abuser is ABSOLUTELY convinced of their own victimhood. The shell-shocked feeling of bewilderment and pain that you are going through is totally normal. And I'm sure that this guy truly does see himself as a matyr. The fact that he cannot engage with you to discuss the relationship, cannot ask himself the question "what have I done wrong in this situation/relationship", cannot admit he might be responsible for his own suffering and instead projects it on to others is a hallmark of someone who is abusive.
You have figured it out. Now RUN. Just as you would from anyone who intended to do you harm.
Also, he will be back (he is ALWAYS back, right?). When he comes back you have to shut him out- don't be your usual friendly loving kind self. You have to establish boundaries and be firm - and assert yourself and your right to happiness, kindness, consideration, and true caring and love. Don't make time for him, don't go back to your caretaker, charming, woman in the box (when its convenient) role.
posted by zia at 12:42 PM on April 21, 2011 [4 favorites]
You have figured it out. Now RUN. Just as you would from anyone who intended to do you harm.
Also, he will be back (he is ALWAYS back, right?). When he comes back you have to shut him out- don't be your usual friendly loving kind self. You have to establish boundaries and be firm - and assert yourself and your right to happiness, kindness, consideration, and true caring and love. Don't make time for him, don't go back to your caretaker, charming, woman in the box (when its convenient) role.
posted by zia at 12:42 PM on April 21, 2011 [4 favorites]
Best answer: If I weren't on deadline, I would enumerate and label all the abusive things he's done to you and explain in detail why they're abusive.
But I am on deadline. So I can't. But I have to tell you that you make this guy sound like a complete bastard.
Oh no! Feel guilty? Need to explain to me why he has a lot of good points? Think I've misunderstood and you haven't put his side of it fairly enough and it isn't like that, really? None of that matters. It doesn't matter why it isn't his fault or he can be good company sometimes or etc etc etc. It doesn't even matter if you've knowingly and with malice aforethought misrepresented him in order to manipulate us all into giving you a wall of DTMFA. It doesn't matter because his bastard nature is still glaringly obvious within the first few sentences. And then there's more of it. And then more. I stopped reading pretty early because, holy shit. He was that much of a bastard and then there was more of it?!? People treat pets and farm animals better than he's treated you. And I hate to say something as harsh as this, but it's highly unlikely that he thinks of you as any more human than a pet or a piece of livestock. Not because of who you are, but because of who he is. There are impaired people in this world who have very limited capacities for respecting others, and it's pretty obvious that he is one of them.
As to your question. The way to get out of this negative cycle is to look at the whole relationship as a bad habit.
I grant you that in many ways it's worse than a bad habit and I'd say it was more akin to some kind of cult indoctrination. But that would be giving it more grandiosity than it deserves. It's better, I think, to see your entire life with him as just a bad habit.
To break it, you're in a better position than many people who have a hard habit to break. Smokers or overeaters or drinkers or nailbiters are constantly faced with reminders of their habit and temptations to resume. You can remove yourself from his home, cut off contact, and never ever see or hear from him again. You might have to go to some lengths to achieve this, but it is completely possible.
I know I should step away from the keyboard, but geez. I just get angrier and angrier. This nearly middle-aged man approaches a teenager and grooms her into a lifetime of being his bitch and thinking that any of it is remotely tolerable. Notice how I'm not being calm? Notice how I'm not being abusive either? See how these two things have nothing to do with each other?
posted by tel3path at 3:37 PM on April 21, 2011 [4 favorites]
But I am on deadline. So I can't. But I have to tell you that you make this guy sound like a complete bastard.
Oh no! Feel guilty? Need to explain to me why he has a lot of good points? Think I've misunderstood and you haven't put his side of it fairly enough and it isn't like that, really? None of that matters. It doesn't matter why it isn't his fault or he can be good company sometimes or etc etc etc. It doesn't even matter if you've knowingly and with malice aforethought misrepresented him in order to manipulate us all into giving you a wall of DTMFA. It doesn't matter because his bastard nature is still glaringly obvious within the first few sentences. And then there's more of it. And then more. I stopped reading pretty early because, holy shit. He was that much of a bastard and then there was more of it?!? People treat pets and farm animals better than he's treated you. And I hate to say something as harsh as this, but it's highly unlikely that he thinks of you as any more human than a pet or a piece of livestock. Not because of who you are, but because of who he is. There are impaired people in this world who have very limited capacities for respecting others, and it's pretty obvious that he is one of them.
As to your question. The way to get out of this negative cycle is to look at the whole relationship as a bad habit.
I grant you that in many ways it's worse than a bad habit and I'd say it was more akin to some kind of cult indoctrination. But that would be giving it more grandiosity than it deserves. It's better, I think, to see your entire life with him as just a bad habit.
To break it, you're in a better position than many people who have a hard habit to break. Smokers or overeaters or drinkers or nailbiters are constantly faced with reminders of their habit and temptations to resume. You can remove yourself from his home, cut off contact, and never ever see or hear from him again. You might have to go to some lengths to achieve this, but it is completely possible.
I know I should step away from the keyboard, but geez. I just get angrier and angrier. This nearly middle-aged man approaches a teenager and grooms her into a lifetime of being his bitch and thinking that any of it is remotely tolerable. Notice how I'm not being calm? Notice how I'm not being abusive either? See how these two things have nothing to do with each other?
posted by tel3path at 3:37 PM on April 21, 2011 [4 favorites]
Look, few manipulative, bullying, controlling people ever have a sign on them that says "I am evil". It's their behavior that demonstrates it and it's how you feel. Now, if you don't know any better, you think it's fine or if you do know better, you're not supposed to say anything or you're supposed to think of ways in which to validate their behavior. Those are the rules. Trying to instigate sex after a rape is good evidence of that. You felt like crap, you blocked it out by never speaking to anyone about it. Chances are, he would never, ever, ever even remember that he did that. Why - because he doesn't care. Honestly.
If you're there to be used you'll be used by people like this. People like this do not even have the capacity to understand what the decent thing to do is. You need to get as far away from him as possible.
posted by mleigh at 3:47 PM on April 21, 2011 [4 favorites]
If you're there to be used you'll be used by people like this. People like this do not even have the capacity to understand what the decent thing to do is. You need to get as far away from him as possible.
posted by mleigh at 3:47 PM on April 21, 2011 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: mleigh When I broached the topic of the unfortunate sex incident with him a few days after the fact, he seemed slightly ashamed, yet insisted I had given him the impression that I needed it at the time, as an expression of physical closeness and love. I was experiencing intense shock, obviously, and the issue sort of existed as a fuzzy wrongness at the periphery of my immediate concerns (std's, pregnancy, etc). What later disgusted me so much about this was why he hadn't conceived of suggesting I preserved myself for the police, why he would even wish to participate in something intimate with a walking crime scene. Didn't he feel disgusted that this guy had so recently done that? And aren't people generally in agreement that a victim of this type of crime probably ought to be given a fair deal of physical space, especially within hours of the deed? (I'm not actually expecting an answer to these questions, I am just thinking aloud).
I am still processing this, for I have obviously left it unattended for too long. I spoke with my sister and mother about it this evening for the firs time, and of course they were furious, stunned, for his actions at the time had struck them as comparable to the knight in shining armour.
That said, he didn't forget it, but he certainly never wished to discuss it. In later years, if I ever mentioned it to him, he would usually remain silent, as if it was a subject he would rather avoid. If I allow myself to wonder what his motives might have been, I fall flat. Although some later comments, in the weeks following the rape, did rouse my suspicions - he often asked me curious questions about the guys looks, physique, including intricate questioning about his body parts. WTF?
Sadly, as for myself, at the time this happened I was simply glad to be held and close to him. And I was in a state of shock. We were separated at the time and hadn't seen each other for quite a while. His home was close to where the horror happened, and I suppose it felt natural to turn to him for help.
...
And regardless of my experiences, I am not quite used to perceiving myself as a 'victim', which I suppose makes these current revelations about him, the concept of him as some sort of 'abuser' seem so shocking to me. And yet, i can see that i can't look away from this.
I wrote my post without any clear forethought, and was not quite expecting such (or many) reactions to it. At this stage I can only tell you that all of your thoughts and reactions have been extremely valuable to me.
posted by noella at 4:45 PM on April 21, 2011
I am still processing this, for I have obviously left it unattended for too long. I spoke with my sister and mother about it this evening for the firs time, and of course they were furious, stunned, for his actions at the time had struck them as comparable to the knight in shining armour.
That said, he didn't forget it, but he certainly never wished to discuss it. In later years, if I ever mentioned it to him, he would usually remain silent, as if it was a subject he would rather avoid. If I allow myself to wonder what his motives might have been, I fall flat. Although some later comments, in the weeks following the rape, did rouse my suspicions - he often asked me curious questions about the guys looks, physique, including intricate questioning about his body parts. WTF?
Sadly, as for myself, at the time this happened I was simply glad to be held and close to him. And I was in a state of shock. We were separated at the time and hadn't seen each other for quite a while. His home was close to where the horror happened, and I suppose it felt natural to turn to him for help.
...
And regardless of my experiences, I am not quite used to perceiving myself as a 'victim', which I suppose makes these current revelations about him, the concept of him as some sort of 'abuser' seem so shocking to me. And yet, i can see that i can't look away from this.
I wrote my post without any clear forethought, and was not quite expecting such (or many) reactions to it. At this stage I can only tell you that all of your thoughts and reactions have been extremely valuable to me.
posted by noella at 4:45 PM on April 21, 2011
I had a guy friend do something wierdo once (nothing comparable to your experience, noella) and it stuck with me. Why did he act so inappropriately - why did I not call him on it - why didn't I see it was a bad sign. Blah blah. It has remained an uncomfortable thing lodged in my metaphorical teeth, and I've never talked about it to anyone. So I empathize, because mine is just a small thing, and still it bugs me.
Yeah, he's abusive, but I don't know that it makes you a victim. Don't put labels on yourself. What is important is the action you have taken for yourself and your well being.
Been thinking of childhood versus adulthood lately and part of being an adult is making the tough decisions, even though they go against your child self's immediate wants. Eat vegetables. Go to bed on time. Ditch bad boyfriend and chill out for a while. This guy is very selfish and ruled by his child self. He won't put his discomfort or needs aside to be an adult and try to do what is right by you (not abandoning you, etc.). He just does what he wants, or what will get him what he wants. Removing him from your life for good will have to be an adult choice that you make, even though you may indeed miss him and find the loss hard. Care for yourself enough to do this, because this guy will not care for you as an adult should. Good luck.
posted by griselda at 6:30 PM on April 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
Yeah, he's abusive, but I don't know that it makes you a victim. Don't put labels on yourself. What is important is the action you have taken for yourself and your well being.
Been thinking of childhood versus adulthood lately and part of being an adult is making the tough decisions, even though they go against your child self's immediate wants. Eat vegetables. Go to bed on time. Ditch bad boyfriend and chill out for a while. This guy is very selfish and ruled by his child self. He won't put his discomfort or needs aside to be an adult and try to do what is right by you (not abandoning you, etc.). He just does what he wants, or what will get him what he wants. Removing him from your life for good will have to be an adult choice that you make, even though you may indeed miss him and find the loss hard. Care for yourself enough to do this, because this guy will not care for you as an adult should. Good luck.
posted by griselda at 6:30 PM on April 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
Best answer: noella, it sounds as if his jealousy and possessiveness never died away. He pushed sex on you after the rape because another man had "had" you, and he felt the need to reassert that you were his. The questions about the guy were an attempt to reassure himself that your rapist (your rapist!) was no threat. It sounds as he saw the rape as a matter of someone playing with his toy without asking, and he was trying to make sure that toy was still his. He is foul.
posted by Anonymous at 6:49 PM on April 21, 2011
posted by Anonymous at 6:49 PM on April 21, 2011
Calling yourself a victim isn't something that is going to help you, I don't feel. You were just in a bad relationship for a long time and some of your perceptions will need to change if you want to have far healthier relationships in the future. Nothing bad about learning and growing from your experiences - do that! You can't change him, though, so don't even try.
Know from this experience that some people do have great difficulty thinking of people as people. They can see people more as objects or tools for their own means. Connecting with other people and thus understanding why they might be hurt by behavior is hard for them, and sometimes impossible.
Often these people will portray themselves as a knight in shining armor - they are your protector - and when you're in a vulnerable position, protecting is what you need.
However, situations like this get exploited and, unfortunately, become more about their needs that they feel are not being addressed. His comments about the attacker's physique were probably out of jealousy, the desire to sleep with you to reclaim you as his own - that's about objectification and his ego. In a way, his concerns about himself outwayed his concerns for you. He probably felt ashamed, and if you bring it up now, feels ashamed, although he might not necessarily be really clear as to why - he just knows it upsets you. Again, he's concerned about how he looks. But he probably doesn't spontaneously think of the situation as you might.
Learn from this and look after yourself. Don't go back, go forward.
posted by mleigh at 7:02 PM on April 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Know from this experience that some people do have great difficulty thinking of people as people. They can see people more as objects or tools for their own means. Connecting with other people and thus understanding why they might be hurt by behavior is hard for them, and sometimes impossible.
Often these people will portray themselves as a knight in shining armor - they are your protector - and when you're in a vulnerable position, protecting is what you need.
However, situations like this get exploited and, unfortunately, become more about their needs that they feel are not being addressed. His comments about the attacker's physique were probably out of jealousy, the desire to sleep with you to reclaim you as his own - that's about objectification and his ego. In a way, his concerns about himself outwayed his concerns for you. He probably felt ashamed, and if you bring it up now, feels ashamed, although he might not necessarily be really clear as to why - he just knows it upsets you. Again, he's concerned about how he looks. But he probably doesn't spontaneously think of the situation as you might.
Learn from this and look after yourself. Don't go back, go forward.
posted by mleigh at 7:02 PM on April 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I agree with the above comments.
So many of these responses have helped me to actually stare something in the face that I have been unable to make sense of for so long. A clearer pattern has emerged, I will have to take this slowly, carefully. It is as if a torch has been switched on in the darkness, spreading light over all of those years spent in confusion. It's a pretty violent light, but there is also a huge sense of relief and strength here also.
I find myself coming back here, to share these thoughts, perhaps because I am somewhat overwhelmed by how much sense this makes to me. It's a positive yet terrifying thing. And in response to many of the earlier comments in this thread, I am coming to accept my previous ignorance/innocence as to his motives. it feels so shocking. I have wavered between feeling that I have betrayed him by breaking silence, and simultaneously having stumbled upon the solution to reclaiming my life.
posted by noella at 7:33 PM on April 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
So many of these responses have helped me to actually stare something in the face that I have been unable to make sense of for so long. A clearer pattern has emerged, I will have to take this slowly, carefully. It is as if a torch has been switched on in the darkness, spreading light over all of those years spent in confusion. It's a pretty violent light, but there is also a huge sense of relief and strength here also.
I find myself coming back here, to share these thoughts, perhaps because I am somewhat overwhelmed by how much sense this makes to me. It's a positive yet terrifying thing. And in response to many of the earlier comments in this thread, I am coming to accept my previous ignorance/innocence as to his motives. it feels so shocking. I have wavered between feeling that I have betrayed him by breaking silence, and simultaneously having stumbled upon the solution to reclaiming my life.
posted by noella at 7:33 PM on April 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
ok, a lot of people are just saying that you SHOULD leave him. I agree, of course, but I think you already knew that. i think the hardest part in this situation won't be leaving him, necessarily, but making it stick. you guys have already broken up lots of times. that part is easy. you need to break up, and cut off all contact forever. that's the hard part.
i was in a similar relationship and ending it was the hardest thing i've ever done. it was hard to stick to my guns because i missed him so much (i still do, and it's been several months.) even though logically, i can see all the red flags and know why he's bad for me, for some reason post-breakup it was like all those memories became difficult to remember. all the good memories would just come popping vividly into my head at the worst moments. i'd be at the grocery store, or in class, or in my car and out of nowhere i'd think about some sweet or emotionally intimate moment with him, and this intense feeling of sadness and regret would wash over me. then it snowballs- i'm crying, helpless, and then inevitably there are the questions: were things really so bad? should i give him another chance? am i throwing away something special? it's so messed up the way your brain can distort the truth. even though somewhere deep down i knew the truth, like i said, in the aftermath of the breakup it was actually difficult for me to control the way i remembered things. one of the things i had considered doing prior to the breakup, but didn't, was to write out EVERYTHING he had ever done that was shitty, and all my doubts, and basically just all the reasons i was breaking up with him. i didn't do that, because, well, it didn't seem like the type of thing i'd be likely to forget. but in my moments of post-breakup confusion and desperation, i wish i'd had that particular document to read and return me to sanity. i tried to write it all out after the fact, but like i said, my memories had become a bit distorted so it didn't really work. so, my advice is to do what i didn't and write it all out. like a letter to your future self, the one who starts to think maybe it wasn't such a good idea to cut him off after all. focus a lot on how shitty he made you FEEL, in detail, as a result of each incident- that was the part i had a hard time remembering accurately. i went to therapy for a while, but it didn't help because like . . . even though i could articulate everything that was bad about him, somehow it didn't help in reducing how much i still loved him.
the only thing that's been helping me gain clarity, really, is time. which sucks, because when i broke it off, i thought i'd be over it by this point several months out. I'm not, but i can tell i'm headed in that direction. as the emotional intensity wears off, i can see things more clearly and rationally. and of course, i'm glad i resisted the urge to take him back, but oh my god was it difficult at the time. you're going to need to prepare for that. have a friend lined up who you can call instead every time you think you ought to call him. ignore all phone calls and emails from him. don't even read the emails! (everyone says this but it is SO hard to do. do it anyway.) delete phone messages without listening to them. there's something about this type of person- the type of things they will accuse you of are so outlandish that you feel compelled to respond and defend yourself. the only way to resist the urge is to not even read/hear it in the first place. he even showed up after months of me ignoring his other attempts at contact and rang my buzzer- i ignored it. (i am very relieved to be moving soon- maybe that would help you too?)
i could really write a whole lot more, but this is already way too long (and some of it is stuff i'd rather not post publicly.) please memail me if you want more details of the aftermath and how i coped with it. good luck- you know the right thing to do, just don't forget what it is or why it's important. breaking up with a person like this is WAY harder than a regular breakup because of the way he has altered your perceptions of the situation and your own self-worth. fight it.
posted by GastrocNemesis at 7:16 AM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
i was in a similar relationship and ending it was the hardest thing i've ever done. it was hard to stick to my guns because i missed him so much (i still do, and it's been several months.) even though logically, i can see all the red flags and know why he's bad for me, for some reason post-breakup it was like all those memories became difficult to remember. all the good memories would just come popping vividly into my head at the worst moments. i'd be at the grocery store, or in class, or in my car and out of nowhere i'd think about some sweet or emotionally intimate moment with him, and this intense feeling of sadness and regret would wash over me. then it snowballs- i'm crying, helpless, and then inevitably there are the questions: were things really so bad? should i give him another chance? am i throwing away something special? it's so messed up the way your brain can distort the truth. even though somewhere deep down i knew the truth, like i said, in the aftermath of the breakup it was actually difficult for me to control the way i remembered things. one of the things i had considered doing prior to the breakup, but didn't, was to write out EVERYTHING he had ever done that was shitty, and all my doubts, and basically just all the reasons i was breaking up with him. i didn't do that, because, well, it didn't seem like the type of thing i'd be likely to forget. but in my moments of post-breakup confusion and desperation, i wish i'd had that particular document to read and return me to sanity. i tried to write it all out after the fact, but like i said, my memories had become a bit distorted so it didn't really work. so, my advice is to do what i didn't and write it all out. like a letter to your future self, the one who starts to think maybe it wasn't such a good idea to cut him off after all. focus a lot on how shitty he made you FEEL, in detail, as a result of each incident- that was the part i had a hard time remembering accurately. i went to therapy for a while, but it didn't help because like . . . even though i could articulate everything that was bad about him, somehow it didn't help in reducing how much i still loved him.
the only thing that's been helping me gain clarity, really, is time. which sucks, because when i broke it off, i thought i'd be over it by this point several months out. I'm not, but i can tell i'm headed in that direction. as the emotional intensity wears off, i can see things more clearly and rationally. and of course, i'm glad i resisted the urge to take him back, but oh my god was it difficult at the time. you're going to need to prepare for that. have a friend lined up who you can call instead every time you think you ought to call him. ignore all phone calls and emails from him. don't even read the emails! (everyone says this but it is SO hard to do. do it anyway.) delete phone messages without listening to them. there's something about this type of person- the type of things they will accuse you of are so outlandish that you feel compelled to respond and defend yourself. the only way to resist the urge is to not even read/hear it in the first place. he even showed up after months of me ignoring his other attempts at contact and rang my buzzer- i ignored it. (i am very relieved to be moving soon- maybe that would help you too?)
i could really write a whole lot more, but this is already way too long (and some of it is stuff i'd rather not post publicly.) please memail me if you want more details of the aftermath and how i coped with it. good luck- you know the right thing to do, just don't forget what it is or why it's important. breaking up with a person like this is WAY harder than a regular breakup because of the way he has altered your perceptions of the situation and your own self-worth. fight it.
posted by GastrocNemesis at 7:16 AM on April 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
I have no advice for you here, just my best wishes and a gut feeling that you are going to be okay and come out of this a much stronger person.
posted by Asparagirl at 7:18 AM on April 22, 2011
posted by Asparagirl at 7:18 AM on April 22, 2011
You're gaining insight into this. Keep looking. I wish you well.
I once loved a very charming person who seemed simply perfect except that he would turn cold and simply disappear if I ever needed him. As long as I didn't call on him for any of the care and attention he required from me, our relationship was perfect. I had had some therapy by that time and I knew this was wrong. It wasn't easy to leave but I never regretted it. (His own sister implored me not to cave and take him back--she'd known him all his life and was not blind to his behavior in relationships.) Funny thing, I always loved him and treasure having known him. I moved on and have had some lovely adventures and eventually discovered that I really didn't want to live with anyone, that I like my solitude.
I wish you strength, happy adventures, and a life that fulfills you. I hope you go for it.
posted by Anitanola at 4:21 PM on April 22, 2011
I once loved a very charming person who seemed simply perfect except that he would turn cold and simply disappear if I ever needed him. As long as I didn't call on him for any of the care and attention he required from me, our relationship was perfect. I had had some therapy by that time and I knew this was wrong. It wasn't easy to leave but I never regretted it. (His own sister implored me not to cave and take him back--she'd known him all his life and was not blind to his behavior in relationships.) Funny thing, I always loved him and treasure having known him. I moved on and have had some lovely adventures and eventually discovered that I really didn't want to live with anyone, that I like my solitude.
I wish you strength, happy adventures, and a life that fulfills you. I hope you go for it.
posted by Anitanola at 4:21 PM on April 22, 2011
Best answer: I find it helps me to think in terms of cartoon imagery. When I want to keep someone out, I imagine zooming around my house boarding up all the doors and windows and hanging up a "GONE TO SIBERIA" sign. I imagine them finding another way in and I imagine myself wearing a fake nose and glasses to tell them "oh hello, Bastard... I don't live here any more... sorry, no speako inglese, bye..."
I really think that although you have a lot of processing to do here, total No Contact is best from now on. You're better off processing this without him around. You probably won't feel all right about it for a long time, and you'll miss him and feel drawn to him and pulled towards him. But it's really just the craving for a cigarette. You know? Many women leave and return to their abusers over and over again... but you have an opportunity to save yourself some time here.
Here are some good books to read:
Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft
The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans
How To Break Your Addiction To A Person, by Howard Halpern
The Betrayal Bond, by Patrick Carnes
In Sheep's Clothing, by George K Simon
When You Love A Man Who Loves Himself, by W Campbell
I'm not too sure you should be dating again before you've at least read those books and absorbed what's inside. The thing is, predatory people have some kind of sixth sense for who has just come out of a bad situation, and they're good at seeking such people out and treating them better than the last person, but still abusively. And then you get blamed for "attracting" or "picking" abusive people. Really, I think it's them doing the active seeking out and picking. I can only guess that after somebody's just mistreated you, there are tiny tells in your behaviour that these people can spot, and they say, great, here's someone I can kick while they're down. I've recognized the reverse happening too - I found myself in an environment where I was getting lots of compliments all the time, and suddenly everywhere I went everybody was tossing compliments over me like confetti and lavishing praise on me, usually over things that still strike me as strangely banal and not grounds for nearly that much excitement. So I've experienced the phenomenon at both polarities. Clearly there's a principle of "to her that has, more will be given" at work here somehow.
I don't say that to discourage you, I say it to warn you that you probably need a palate-cleanser before you rush out and get yourself a new guy, is all.
posted by tel3path at 3:16 PM on April 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
I really think that although you have a lot of processing to do here, total No Contact is best from now on. You're better off processing this without him around. You probably won't feel all right about it for a long time, and you'll miss him and feel drawn to him and pulled towards him. But it's really just the craving for a cigarette. You know? Many women leave and return to their abusers over and over again... but you have an opportunity to save yourself some time here.
Here are some good books to read:
Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft
The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans
How To Break Your Addiction To A Person, by Howard Halpern
The Betrayal Bond, by Patrick Carnes
In Sheep's Clothing, by George K Simon
When You Love A Man Who Loves Himself, by W Campbell
I'm not too sure you should be dating again before you've at least read those books and absorbed what's inside. The thing is, predatory people have some kind of sixth sense for who has just come out of a bad situation, and they're good at seeking such people out and treating them better than the last person, but still abusively. And then you get blamed for "attracting" or "picking" abusive people. Really, I think it's them doing the active seeking out and picking. I can only guess that after somebody's just mistreated you, there are tiny tells in your behaviour that these people can spot, and they say, great, here's someone I can kick while they're down. I've recognized the reverse happening too - I found myself in an environment where I was getting lots of compliments all the time, and suddenly everywhere I went everybody was tossing compliments over me like confetti and lavishing praise on me, usually over things that still strike me as strangely banal and not grounds for nearly that much excitement. So I've experienced the phenomenon at both polarities. Clearly there's a principle of "to her that has, more will be given" at work here somehow.
I don't say that to discourage you, I say it to warn you that you probably need a palate-cleanser before you rush out and get yourself a new guy, is all.
posted by tel3path at 3:16 PM on April 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: tel3path Thankyou for this, and the links!
You are so right with regards to potentially abusive future partners. This has happened to me before, and I am extremely wary of it these days. I often wonder about that 'sixth sense' thing too, I used to imagine they had a sort of psychic detector, and as silly as it sounds, they really are able to sense a vulnerable soul within a 300 mile radius.
I am currently processing many of his past betrayals, in a way which I haven't been able to properly do before. Certain elements of his influence seem to be falling off me, like dead leaves from a tree.
posted by noella at 9:19 PM on April 23, 2011
You are so right with regards to potentially abusive future partners. This has happened to me before, and I am extremely wary of it these days. I often wonder about that 'sixth sense' thing too, I used to imagine they had a sort of psychic detector, and as silly as it sounds, they really are able to sense a vulnerable soul within a 300 mile radius.
I am currently processing many of his past betrayals, in a way which I haven't been able to properly do before. Certain elements of his influence seem to be falling off me, like dead leaves from a tree.
posted by noella at 9:19 PM on April 23, 2011
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posted by melissam at 3:38 AM on April 21, 2011 [2 favorites]