Film Northern Ireland, Employment Law
October 9, 2010 7:10 PM Subscribe
OK. So I have a close friend working on 'A Game of Thrones' in northern ireland. Anyone do employment law, UK or NI?
My friend is from Northern Ireland, he/she and everyone else from the north are treated like shit. Shit compared to every other production ever made in NI. A person from england or anywhere else, irregard of work experience,history,status, etc., will be paid a lot more than any pleb from the north.
Legal working hours uk? 48hours
Average working hours? 85 hours; including two hours of driving each day without traveling compensation, whereas anyone not from NI gets traveling comp. even though they don't have to drive to set, location etc.
This isn't whining, I have worked in NI productions before, so I know my friend who has twice in the last week almost killed themselves on the road due to tiredness/being overworked is something very unusual.
After one almost crash I spoke to the person on the phone and they didn't know what was happening after working 38 hours in two days, a normal persons full work week, he/she talked jibberish until I came and collected them and their car.
They have contracts signed but none will challenge HBO about their work conditions due to fear of being black-marked from future productions.
I'm seriously worried about my friends, but what can I do to help them?
There's a couple of months left on the shoot, can my friends legally do anything to ease the pressure on them, to cut their hours?
I'm worried sick about them. None of them want to talk publically about it, but possibly someone here has experienced the same work conditions or knows how to legally challenge their predicament.
thanks for any input.....
My friend is from Northern Ireland, he/she and everyone else from the north are treated like shit. Shit compared to every other production ever made in NI. A person from england or anywhere else, irregard of work experience,history,status, etc., will be paid a lot more than any pleb from the north.
Legal working hours uk? 48hours
Average working hours? 85 hours; including two hours of driving each day without traveling compensation, whereas anyone not from NI gets traveling comp. even though they don't have to drive to set, location etc.
This isn't whining, I have worked in NI productions before, so I know my friend who has twice in the last week almost killed themselves on the road due to tiredness/being overworked is something very unusual.
After one almost crash I spoke to the person on the phone and they didn't know what was happening after working 38 hours in two days, a normal persons full work week, he/she talked jibberish until I came and collected them and their car.
They have contracts signed but none will challenge HBO about their work conditions due to fear of being black-marked from future productions.
I'm seriously worried about my friends, but what can I do to help them?
There's a couple of months left on the shoot, can my friends legally do anything to ease the pressure on them, to cut their hours?
I'm worried sick about them. None of them want to talk publically about it, but possibly someone here has experienced the same work conditions or knows how to legally challenge their predicament.
thanks for any input.....
This post was deleted for the following reason: poster's request -- jessamyn
Response by poster: Thank's for replying motty
It will mean alot to my friends, they're unsure and unwilling to take this further...
It's 85 hours for a five day week, monday to friday.
my friends can't function on a weekend, receiving calls all day saturday on top of the 85 hr working week.
From what I hear, people with 30+ years experience working on this project have all said this is the worst job they've ever worked on, and have kindly offered encouragement that this is as worse as it gets
I've showed them the site you mentioned but the fact remains that any complaint will just mean someone else less experienced will have to take over and they will end up possibly working even longer hours.
One reason why film production has become more popular in nothern.ireland compared to the south is due to the republics recently formed working unions for the film industry ensuring proper overtime pay etc..
posted by quantumonkey at 8:12 PM on October 9, 2010
It will mean alot to my friends, they're unsure and unwilling to take this further...
It's 85 hours for a five day week, monday to friday.
my friends can't function on a weekend, receiving calls all day saturday on top of the 85 hr working week.
From what I hear, people with 30+ years experience working on this project have all said this is the worst job they've ever worked on, and have kindly offered encouragement that this is as worse as it gets
I've showed them the site you mentioned but the fact remains that any complaint will just mean someone else less experienced will have to take over and they will end up possibly working even longer hours.
One reason why film production has become more popular in nothern.ireland compared to the south is due to the republics recently formed working unions for the film industry ensuring proper overtime pay etc..
posted by quantumonkey at 8:12 PM on October 9, 2010
Response by poster: dfriedman, thanks I've told them to contact local media as the current film industry is portrayed here as a god-send for local workers, whereas the reality is something different....
The investment here is great but really only benefits studios coming to NI for the government granted concessions.
Filiming in malta is scheduled and they're gearing up for even longer working hours as the maltese can be treated even worse than the n.irish
posted by quantumonkey at 8:20 PM on October 9, 2010
The investment here is great but really only benefits studios coming to NI for the government granted concessions.
Filiming in malta is scheduled and they're gearing up for even longer working hours as the maltese can be treated even worse than the n.irish
posted by quantumonkey at 8:20 PM on October 9, 2010
Response by poster: 85 hours monday to friday, no overtime is paid
17 hours per day
plus locals get no travel comp, which means traveling an hour or more to location and another hour back home, currently in shitty weather
posted by quantumonkey at 8:25 PM on October 9, 2010
17 hours per day
plus locals get no travel comp, which means traveling an hour or more to location and another hour back home, currently in shitty weather
posted by quantumonkey at 8:25 PM on October 9, 2010
Response by poster: legally can anyone give me some advice to pass on??
posted by quantumonkey at 8:52 PM on October 9, 2010
posted by quantumonkey at 8:52 PM on October 9, 2010
legally can anyone give me some advice to pass on??
Yes. Document everything and talk to an employment lawyer.
posted by sbutler at 8:59 PM on October 9, 2010
Yes. Document everything and talk to an employment lawyer.
posted by sbutler at 8:59 PM on October 9, 2010
Mod note: Comment removed, google-bombing stuff is not okay. If you want to try again with the being helpful but not without the cutesy framing, fine.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:11 PM on October 9, 2010
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:11 PM on October 9, 2010
Response by poster: cortex: what was your comment?
posted by quantumonkey at 9:37 PM on October 9, 2010
posted by quantumonkey at 9:37 PM on October 9, 2010
You misunderstand. cortex is a moderator; he removed/edited comments from other people. In particular, the original first comment in this thread was less helpful and more an attempt to connect the name of Premium Cable Channel with bad labor practices in Google. That why Premium Cable Channel was mentioned in every damn sentence. Not what AskMe is for.
posted by sbutler at 10:00 PM on October 9, 2010
posted by sbutler at 10:00 PM on October 9, 2010
I don't know much about the legal issues but it might be helpful to toss an e-mail to George R. R. Martin, he is the author of the books the series is based on and has a rather large online presence. I seriously doubt he wants a production his name is on encouraging dangerous levels of overwork towards an unreasonable deadline.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 10:30 PM on October 9, 2010
posted by furiousxgeorge at 10:30 PM on October 9, 2010
I'm note entirely sure you've got the full measure of this situation.
quantumonkey:
Legal working hours uk? 48hours
Your friend needs to check his/her contract. That is the legal guideline but the norm for set production would include an opt-out clause which would mean individuals on the production are not limited to a 48-hour work week.
Average working hours? 85 hours; including two hours of driving each day without traveling compensation, whereas anyone not from NI gets traveling comp. even though they don't have to drive to set, location etc.
Again, check the regulations. Working time regulations specifically does not include commuting time. Where your friend lives and thence the length of their commute is not the production's problem if your friend chose to work for them. So, if your friend is working 5 days a week and 10 hours of that is spent in the car, that's a 75 hour work week, not an 85 hour work week.
Traveling comp is, I believe, paid to people who have relocated for a production. Again, anyone commuting would not qualify.
There's a couple of months left on the shoot, can my friends legally do anything to ease the pressure on them, to cut their hours?
Yes. They can call the UK government's Pay and Work Rights Helpline:
In short: your friend should call 0800 917 2368.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:07 PM on October 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
quantumonkey:
Legal working hours uk? 48hours
Your friend needs to check his/her contract. That is the legal guideline but the norm for set production would include an opt-out clause which would mean individuals on the production are not limited to a 48-hour work week.
Average working hours? 85 hours; including two hours of driving each day without traveling compensation, whereas anyone not from NI gets traveling comp. even though they don't have to drive to set, location etc.
Again, check the regulations. Working time regulations specifically does not include commuting time. Where your friend lives and thence the length of their commute is not the production's problem if your friend chose to work for them. So, if your friend is working 5 days a week and 10 hours of that is spent in the car, that's a 75 hour work week, not an 85 hour work week.
Traveling comp is, I believe, paid to people who have relocated for a production. Again, anyone commuting would not qualify.
There's a couple of months left on the shoot, can my friends legally do anything to ease the pressure on them, to cut their hours?
Yes. They can call the UK government's Pay and Work Rights Helpline:
Pay and Work Rights Helpline: For confidential help and advice on working hours call 0800 917 2368They might also consider renting a room locally to cut their commute. Or they can quit. Or if their contact has no opt-out and therefore actually does by default mandate 48 hours, they can talk to the Pay and Work Rights Helpline about how to limit their work week to those hours. They need to check the length of the shoot and ask Pay and Work Rights if being over or under 17 hours qualifies or disqualifies them from exercising their statutory rights.
In short: your friend should call 0800 917 2368.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:07 PM on October 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
I can't speak to UK labor law, but I'm an American who works in film and TV here in the states, and I've been through this sort of thing before.
The number 1 thing to do in this situation, whether you think there are laws being broken here or not - your friend should quit the job. In my experience, the main reason productions will nickel and dime the crew and create bad working conditions is that they think people will put up with it. So don't put up with it. And convince as many of the others as possible to do the same.
posted by Sara C. at 12:06 AM on October 10, 2010
The number 1 thing to do in this situation, whether you think there are laws being broken here or not - your friend should quit the job. In my experience, the main reason productions will nickel and dime the crew and create bad working conditions is that they think people will put up with it. So don't put up with it. And convince as many of the others as possible to do the same.
posted by Sara C. at 12:06 AM on October 10, 2010
If you are saying that people from NI are being paid less than people from other countries working on the production, you can also refer the matter to the Equality Commission for Northern Ireland.
posted by ninebelow at 1:06 AM on October 10, 2010
posted by ninebelow at 1:06 AM on October 10, 2010
Second sending a message to George R. R. Martin himself. His blog is at the link above, you can also find his email address on his website (http://www.georgerrmartin.com). If you read his blog, you'll see he takes an active interest in the production. Doubt if he could do much, but you never know. I'd send him an email and leave a comment on the most recent relevant blog entry.
posted by slide at 2:57 AM on October 10, 2010
posted by slide at 2:57 AM on October 10, 2010
If your friend kicks up a fuss about hours in showbiz, he may not work in the industry again. Showbiz is a glamour industry and lots of people want to work in it and are willing to work well above legal hours. He can certainly straighten out his situation on this show, but he will probably not get picked up for the next. No, it's not fair, but it's showbiz.
posted by musofire at 8:05 AM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by musofire at 8:05 AM on October 10, 2010 [1 favorite]
The author of the books can't do anything. You could contact Northern Ireland Screen, which administers Paint Hall, where some of the series has been shot.
The series is/was produced by Mark Huffam, of Generator Entertainment in Belfast.
Are your friends members of a union? You could get in touch with the local and report the production for being in violation. If not, you could try the national labor board.
Knowing what jobs your friend has would make a difference. Getting paid for travel time is a perk usually for union members, talent and some producers. For PAs, not so much.
posted by Ideefixe at 9:01 AM on October 10, 2010
The series is/was produced by Mark Huffam, of Generator Entertainment in Belfast.
Are your friends members of a union? You could get in touch with the local and report the production for being in violation. If not, you could try the national labor board.
Knowing what jobs your friend has would make a difference. Getting paid for travel time is a perk usually for union members, talent and some producers. For PAs, not so much.
posted by Ideefixe at 9:01 AM on October 10, 2010
I don't know anything about NI, but I have worked on indie films in the US. I shifted myself into a different industry when I realized I couldn't put up with my commute on top of the hours the gigs required. Musofire is 100% correct, unfortunately -- there are a ton of very motivated, very driven people who would absolutely love to have your friend's job, crappy commute and all. It sucks, but that's film/video/television. Kicking up a stink may indeed lead to problems landing future gigs -- I finished out the end of my last contract for that reason, in case I ever wanted to go back. Even though I finished my last contract, I probably have a bit of a black mark in some peoples' books for failing to extend that contract and finish out the film.
posted by Alterscape at 9:04 AM on October 10, 2010
posted by Alterscape at 9:04 AM on October 10, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by dfriedman at 8:01 PM on October 9, 2010