Dysfunctional in the least charming way imaginable.
June 30, 2010 4:30 AM Subscribe
I want to introduce my wonderful boyfriend to my family. The problem? My father is a bigot and I'm 100% certain he'll be very unwelcoming. Please help me figure out how to navigate this situation.
I've been seeing my boyfriend, Ryan, for a little over a year, and he means the world to me. He's brilliant, funny, sexy, successful, and he treats me amazingly well. Recently our relationship has started to get serious. We have tentative plans to move in together, we've discussed the possibility of eventual marriage, and we both feel great about the way things are going.
My parents live about two hours away from the city where Ryan and I both reside. I don't drive out to visit them terribly often because my father tends to be a pretty cantankerous person, and I can only tolerate him in small doses. He often treats me very warmly, but he also has an explosive temper and a tendency to be verbally abusive. I adore my mother and my 17-year-old brother, though, and Mom would really love it if I came to visit for a few days.
Ryan wants to come with me, and I'd love for him to come see the house where I grew up, hang out with my brother, etcetera. But I cringe at the thought of introducing him to my dad. Ryan is significantly overweight, and my father is incredibly judgmental of overweight people, to the point where he doesn't even see the need to feign politeness. He was incredibly rude to my last serious boyfriend over perceived physical flaws... glaring, muttering in his native language, making cruel comments within earshot. During and after that encounter, I stressed to him that his behavior was completely unacceptable, and I told him in no uncertain terms that he would no longer be privy to any knowledge of my personal life unless he could learn to be cordial and open-minded to anyone I might choose to introduce him to. He sort of shrugged it off, since I was only 19 at the time and he didn't really care to meet the friends/boyfriends of a teenage girl anyhow.
Following through on that threat is a getting a bit complicated, though, because I can't really see my mother without seeing my father too, and I miss her. My parents are from a country where men are considered the heads of household, and it's fairly normal for a husband to have complete control of family finances. Even after 30+ years of living in the US, my mom can't travel solo and she doesn't even have access to a checkbook, so she can't just come visit me in the City for an afternoon, or anything like that.
I've explained to Ryan about how unpleasant visits with my father can be, but he still worries that I don't value him enough to introduce him to my family; when, in fact, I can't stand the idea of putting someone I value so much in such a miserable situation.
I'd love any advice you guys might have, concerning:
- ways to help my dad understand that he needs to treat me and my guests respectfully
- how to give Ryan a better understanding of the dynamic without hurting his feelings
- ideas for how I can spend time with my mom, brother, and boyfriend, without my dad being quite so involved.
If ages seem relevant, I'm 23 and Ryan is 30. The parents are in their mid-fifties.
I've been seeing my boyfriend, Ryan, for a little over a year, and he means the world to me. He's brilliant, funny, sexy, successful, and he treats me amazingly well. Recently our relationship has started to get serious. We have tentative plans to move in together, we've discussed the possibility of eventual marriage, and we both feel great about the way things are going.
My parents live about two hours away from the city where Ryan and I both reside. I don't drive out to visit them terribly often because my father tends to be a pretty cantankerous person, and I can only tolerate him in small doses. He often treats me very warmly, but he also has an explosive temper and a tendency to be verbally abusive. I adore my mother and my 17-year-old brother, though, and Mom would really love it if I came to visit for a few days.
Ryan wants to come with me, and I'd love for him to come see the house where I grew up, hang out with my brother, etcetera. But I cringe at the thought of introducing him to my dad. Ryan is significantly overweight, and my father is incredibly judgmental of overweight people, to the point where he doesn't even see the need to feign politeness. He was incredibly rude to my last serious boyfriend over perceived physical flaws... glaring, muttering in his native language, making cruel comments within earshot. During and after that encounter, I stressed to him that his behavior was completely unacceptable, and I told him in no uncertain terms that he would no longer be privy to any knowledge of my personal life unless he could learn to be cordial and open-minded to anyone I might choose to introduce him to. He sort of shrugged it off, since I was only 19 at the time and he didn't really care to meet the friends/boyfriends of a teenage girl anyhow.
Following through on that threat is a getting a bit complicated, though, because I can't really see my mother without seeing my father too, and I miss her. My parents are from a country where men are considered the heads of household, and it's fairly normal for a husband to have complete control of family finances. Even after 30+ years of living in the US, my mom can't travel solo and she doesn't even have access to a checkbook, so she can't just come visit me in the City for an afternoon, or anything like that.
I've explained to Ryan about how unpleasant visits with my father can be, but he still worries that I don't value him enough to introduce him to my family; when, in fact, I can't stand the idea of putting someone I value so much in such a miserable situation.
I'd love any advice you guys might have, concerning:
- ways to help my dad understand that he needs to treat me and my guests respectfully
- how to give Ryan a better understanding of the dynamic without hurting his feelings
- ideas for how I can spend time with my mom, brother, and boyfriend, without my dad being quite so involved.
If ages seem relevant, I'm 23 and Ryan is 30. The parents are in their mid-fifties.
I'm not sure how well this would sit in your family dynamic, but if it was me, I would research guest houses near where your folks live.
Then, go stay with them, but the first time your Father says something out of line, cool off, but then say to him in very concise language that if he continues that kind of behaviour, you will go stay in the guest house for the duration of your stay, and arrange to spend time with your other family members.
Hopefully it won't come to that, but tell your partner the plan in advance - he should know that you are going to these lengths to protect him and you from having a bad time there, it might help to reassure him that you really do want him to meet them.
posted by greenish at 4:45 AM on June 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
Then, go stay with them, but the first time your Father says something out of line, cool off, but then say to him in very concise language that if he continues that kind of behaviour, you will go stay in the guest house for the duration of your stay, and arrange to spend time with your other family members.
Hopefully it won't come to that, but tell your partner the plan in advance - he should know that you are going to these lengths to protect him and you from having a bad time there, it might help to reassure him that you really do want him to meet them.
posted by greenish at 4:45 AM on June 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
Call ahead and tell him that Ryan is very overweight....but also fantastic, successful, loving, etc. You want nothing more than to introduce this important man to you to your father, and Ryan is honorable enough that he wants to meet your family, but you absolutely won't go ahead and arrange a meeting unless you know Ryan will be treated like a respected guest. See what happens.
posted by availablelight at 4:57 AM on June 30, 2010 [9 favorites]
posted by availablelight at 4:57 AM on June 30, 2010 [9 favorites]
Can you give your mom money for the visit to you?
posted by prefpara at 5:11 AM on June 30, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 5:11 AM on June 30, 2010 [7 favorites]
A lot of people have to put up with obnoxious in laws that they despise because they love their SOs. Tell him flat out that your father has made incredibly insulting references to your boyfriends' appearances in the past (try to be specific) and say you hate the thought of putting him in that position.
If he says he's a big boy and he can take it, bring him along. If he says he'd just as soon not have that in his life, that's fine too.
If you can get a hotel when you're there, so much the better.
But it sounds like your relationship is a serious one and you can't put it off forever. I wouldn't bother trying to change your dad, I think if it were me I'd focus more on how I can logistically minimize any damage (take your mom out to lunch so you see her outside the home, etc., plan events outside the house, etc. If your dad asks why he's not invited, you can tell him the truth--you're trying to minimize his hurting your boyfriend's feelings).
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:20 AM on June 30, 2010 [19 favorites]
If he says he's a big boy and he can take it, bring him along. If he says he'd just as soon not have that in his life, that's fine too.
If you can get a hotel when you're there, so much the better.
But it sounds like your relationship is a serious one and you can't put it off forever. I wouldn't bother trying to change your dad, I think if it were me I'd focus more on how I can logistically minimize any damage (take your mom out to lunch so you see her outside the home, etc., plan events outside the house, etc. If your dad asks why he's not invited, you can tell him the truth--you're trying to minimize his hurting your boyfriend's feelings).
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:20 AM on June 30, 2010 [19 favorites]
Sometimes in families where the father is an authoritative head-of-household (I mean, a "traditional" structure), the mother yields a lot of power in subtle, behind-the-scenes ways that might include bartering, gentle nagging behind closed doors, praise in front of others. That sounds terrible, because I'm not sure how to explain this dynamic very well. But if it's true in your family, could you approach your mother and ask for her alliance and help with this?
posted by Houstonian at 5:21 AM on June 30, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Houstonian at 5:21 AM on June 30, 2010 [1 favorite]
I agree that you should go. If you're talking about getting married, he'll meet them eventually, right? So, why not get the first (hardest) meeting over with now? I like the hotel room idea, if at all possible. My family thought it was a little odd at first that we weren't staying with them during visits, but they are over it.
What's most important is that you explain to the boyfriend that there might be some conflict. You can ask your dad to be nice, but don't count on it. Go and have a short visit, and if it's tough, chalk it up to life experience.
You never know, you're dad might be ok with him. Maybe now that you're not his 19 year old little girl, he'll be more laid back. Maybe not.
posted by purpletangerine at 5:30 AM on June 30, 2010
What's most important is that you explain to the boyfriend that there might be some conflict. You can ask your dad to be nice, but don't count on it. Go and have a short visit, and if it's tough, chalk it up to life experience.
You never know, you're dad might be ok with him. Maybe now that you're not his 19 year old little girl, he'll be more laid back. Maybe not.
posted by purpletangerine at 5:30 AM on June 30, 2010
you're only two hours from home... if your father makes an inappropriate comment, let him know that he's done so, and leave. Let him know at a later date that, until that is resolved you won't be coming to see him.
Good for you for setting limits.
posted by HuronBob at 5:35 AM on June 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
Good for you for setting limits.
posted by HuronBob at 5:35 AM on June 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
There's nothing you can do about your dad. Try to find a hotel in the area, or stay with friends if you still have any in your hometown.
What you CAN do is prepare your boyfriend. Tell Ryan the things your dad has said. Emphasize that it upsets you and you don't like the idea of him saying those things to HIM... but there's nothing you can do. Make it up to him whether or not he still wants to join you. I know it hurts you to see it coming that your father will mistreat someone you love, but you can't control someone else's behavior - the most you can do is prepare Ryan ahead of time.
I sympathize: my own father is very conservative, racist, and prone to saying stupid - if not flat out offensive- things. It embarrasses me, but the most I can do is to prepare significant others for what's to come. He's not a BAD person, but he's really likely to say things that are just, well, awful. My partner understands this and knows not to get offended. We never stay with him and when he gets really, really wacked out, we simply find a way to politely leave the situation. It's the best we can do.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 5:38 AM on June 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
What you CAN do is prepare your boyfriend. Tell Ryan the things your dad has said. Emphasize that it upsets you and you don't like the idea of him saying those things to HIM... but there's nothing you can do. Make it up to him whether or not he still wants to join you. I know it hurts you to see it coming that your father will mistreat someone you love, but you can't control someone else's behavior - the most you can do is prepare Ryan ahead of time.
I sympathize: my own father is very conservative, racist, and prone to saying stupid - if not flat out offensive- things. It embarrasses me, but the most I can do is to prepare significant others for what's to come. He's not a BAD person, but he's really likely to say things that are just, well, awful. My partner understands this and knows not to get offended. We never stay with him and when he gets really, really wacked out, we simply find a way to politely leave the situation. It's the best we can do.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 5:38 AM on June 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
"Look, my father is going to be a complete asshole. I'm really sorry about that. But my mom and my brother are awesome and I'd really like you to meet them. Are you willing to try one visit? If you can't handle my father we can stay at a hotel and just meet my mom for lunch or something."
I say that having been in basically exactly that situation. And the person in question was, indeed, an asshole to the other person in question, but they were expecting no less and laughed it off.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 5:38 AM on June 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
I say that having been in basically exactly that situation. And the person in question was, indeed, an asshole to the other person in question, but they were expecting no less and laughed it off.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 5:38 AM on June 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: You're protecting your boyfriend from your dad when you probably don't need to.
You've warned/informed your boyfriend. He's and adult - he should be able to handle this.
I suspect that there is an underlying fear: probably along the lines of "I'm afraid that my dad will be so mean that Ryan will be deeply hurt and never want to see me again." Whether it's that or something else, you should share that with Ryan and then let him decide if he wants to meet your dad or not.
posted by plinth at 5:42 AM on June 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
You've warned/informed your boyfriend. He's and adult - he should be able to handle this.
I suspect that there is an underlying fear: probably along the lines of "I'm afraid that my dad will be so mean that Ryan will be deeply hurt and never want to see me again." Whether it's that or something else, you should share that with Ryan and then let him decide if he wants to meet your dad or not.
posted by plinth at 5:42 AM on June 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
If you can't handle my father...
Maybe phrase that as, "If my father becomes unbearable..." You don't want to make it seem like it's the boyfriend's fault or that the boyfriend has thick skin.
posted by Night_owl at 5:44 AM on June 30, 2010 [5 favorites]
Maybe phrase that as, "If my father becomes unbearable..." You don't want to make it seem like it's the boyfriend's fault or that the boyfriend has thick skin.
posted by Night_owl at 5:44 AM on June 30, 2010 [5 favorites]
As a fat person, I can tell you that Ryan knows that he's fat. So when your father makes snide comments about his weight, it is not going to be anything that he hasn't heard before. We hear that kind of crap from everyone, and many of us kind of tune it out. I don't know where he is on the scale of fat acceptance, so it might be hard for him emotionally, but it won't be new.
Tell him that your father is a miserable person (I'm reading into this here, but nothing you've described seems like Dad of the Year material to me) and that your father is going to be insulting, but you really want Ryan to meet your mom. Stress that you are absolutely mortified by your father's behavior, but that you can't control it, only your reactions to him.
I understand your position to some degree, my parents are extremely racist and I'm white and my husband is black, so it's always a big bundle of joy to have interactions with them. However, I'm not trying to avoid one parent to see the other, so all my advice is based on the theory that you're willing to wash your hands of them if they don't act like decent human beings.
As for this:
she doesn't even have access to a checkbook, so she can't just come visit me in the City for an afternoon, or anything like that.
This makes my skin crawl. Is there a way for you to send her money to visit you or is it the kind of situation where even if she had the cash in hand, she wouldn't cross him?
posted by crankylex at 6:04 AM on June 30, 2010 [3 favorites]
Tell him that your father is a miserable person (I'm reading into this here, but nothing you've described seems like Dad of the Year material to me) and that your father is going to be insulting, but you really want Ryan to meet your mom. Stress that you are absolutely mortified by your father's behavior, but that you can't control it, only your reactions to him.
I understand your position to some degree, my parents are extremely racist and I'm white and my husband is black, so it's always a big bundle of joy to have interactions with them. However, I'm not trying to avoid one parent to see the other, so all my advice is based on the theory that you're willing to wash your hands of them if they don't act like decent human beings.
As for this:
she doesn't even have access to a checkbook, so she can't just come visit me in the City for an afternoon, or anything like that.
This makes my skin crawl. Is there a way for you to send her money to visit you or is it the kind of situation where even if she had the cash in hand, she wouldn't cross him?
posted by crankylex at 6:04 AM on June 30, 2010 [3 favorites]
Arrange to go for a weekend not for several days - small doses seem to be the way to go. Or even just a few hours for the first meeting?
Find out what events are happening in the area at the time of your visit and have a list of fun things to do as a back-up plan to make up for any unpleasantness with your father, should it transpire.
Arrange to stay somewhere that isn't your parents' house - that in itself changes the dynamic of things. If you father becomes unbearable you get up and leave and do some of the things on your list. Invite your mother and brother to join you in this.
If your father hits the roof that's fine because you won't have to see him again that day because you're not staying there, and the trip won't feel like a complete waste either because you get to do fun things with your mother and brother.
posted by koahiatamadl at 6:12 AM on June 30, 2010
Find out what events are happening in the area at the time of your visit and have a list of fun things to do as a back-up plan to make up for any unpleasantness with your father, should it transpire.
Arrange to stay somewhere that isn't your parents' house - that in itself changes the dynamic of things. If you father becomes unbearable you get up and leave and do some of the things on your list. Invite your mother and brother to join you in this.
If your father hits the roof that's fine because you won't have to see him again that day because you're not staying there, and the trip won't feel like a complete waste either because you get to do fun things with your mother and brother.
posted by koahiatamadl at 6:12 AM on June 30, 2010
This is a tough one. I was going to give advice similar to this:
Call ahead and tell him that Ryan is very overweight....but also fantastic, successful, loving, etc. You want nothing more than to introduce this important man to you to your father, and Ryan is honorable enough that he wants to meet your family, but you absolutely won't go ahead and arrange a meeting unless you know Ryan will be treated like a respected guest. See what happens.
I really do not recommend this phrasing:
"Look, my father is going to be a complete asshole. I'm really sorry about that. But my mom and my brother are awesome and I'd really like you to meet them. Are you willing to try one visit? If you can't handle my father we can stay at a hotel and just meet my mom for lunch or something."
posted by Jaltcoh at 6:24 AM on June 30, 2010
Call ahead and tell him that Ryan is very overweight....but also fantastic, successful, loving, etc. You want nothing more than to introduce this important man to you to your father, and Ryan is honorable enough that he wants to meet your family, but you absolutely won't go ahead and arrange a meeting unless you know Ryan will be treated like a respected guest. See what happens.
I really do not recommend this phrasing:
"Look, my father is going to be a complete asshole. I'm really sorry about that. But my mom and my brother are awesome and I'd really like you to meet them. Are you willing to try one visit? If you can't handle my father we can stay at a hotel and just meet my mom for lunch or something."
posted by Jaltcoh at 6:24 AM on June 30, 2010
Just Be honest with your boy-friend.
At the end of the day, that is the only thing that matters.
You can not change your family. Whatever you say to your boyfriend, it will be imperfect.
posted by Flood at 6:34 AM on June 30, 2010
At the end of the day, that is the only thing that matters.
You can not change your family. Whatever you say to your boyfriend, it will be imperfect.
posted by Flood at 6:34 AM on June 30, 2010
Your boyfriend is thirty. Just warn him that your dad is not a kind man, and assume that a thirty year old man is man enough to handle one unpleasant relative. Your dad may very well surprise you and keep his yap shut!
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:46 AM on June 30, 2010
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:46 AM on June 30, 2010
Can't you tell your dad that your boyfriend wants to meet him, but say to your dad that you wish he wouldn't be rude around your friends and it's embarrassing?
posted by anniecat at 6:51 AM on June 30, 2010
posted by anniecat at 6:51 AM on June 30, 2010
Best answer: So when your father makes snide comments about his weight, it is not going to be anything that he hasn't heard before. We hear that kind of crap from everyone, and many of us kind of tune it out. I don't know where he is on the scale of fat acceptance, so it might be hard for him emotionally, but it won't be new.
Crankylex is right, but just to offer a counter-experience: I've been fat most of my life, and I've never gotten desensitized to comments on my weight. Ryan may be totally unfazed, or he may be crushed. If he's made self-conscious comments to you in the past, that might be a clue to how he reacts.
Two hours is day-trip-able. Arrange to meet your family for lunch to test the waters, and if there's anything interesting to do on the way back, plan to go there afterward with Ryan to break up the monotony of the drive, or to get his mind off things if your dad is a jerk to him.
Also:
he still worries that I don't value him enough to introduce him to my family; when, in fact, I can't stand the idea of putting someone I value so much in such a miserable situation.
Tell him exactly this. And when planning your first visit, ask Ryan what he'd like to do if the situation becomes too uncomfortable. Call Dad out? Leave? (With an excuse, or with "we don't deserve to be treated like this"?) Would he prefer that you initiated it? And so on.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:58 AM on June 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
Crankylex is right, but just to offer a counter-experience: I've been fat most of my life, and I've never gotten desensitized to comments on my weight. Ryan may be totally unfazed, or he may be crushed. If he's made self-conscious comments to you in the past, that might be a clue to how he reacts.
Two hours is day-trip-able. Arrange to meet your family for lunch to test the waters, and if there's anything interesting to do on the way back, plan to go there afterward with Ryan to break up the monotony of the drive, or to get his mind off things if your dad is a jerk to him.
Also:
he still worries that I don't value him enough to introduce him to my family; when, in fact, I can't stand the idea of putting someone I value so much in such a miserable situation.
Tell him exactly this. And when planning your first visit, ask Ryan what he'd like to do if the situation becomes too uncomfortable. Call Dad out? Leave? (With an excuse, or with "we don't deserve to be treated like this"?) Would he prefer that you initiated it? And so on.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:58 AM on June 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
If Ryan really wants to meet your father (who sounds like a real piece of work), he should also be up for this: he should go alpha immediately.
From your description, your father is a bully. Let's face it, it could not matter less that Ryan is fat. He could be average (or exceptional) in every way and your Dad will still do a smackdown.
Show up unannounced when you know they'll be home (which, since he controls your mother like this, I am guessing is most of the time). Introduce Ryan. Ryan should immediately say something snide about your dad's appearance, or the car or the house, or your dad's line of work. He should say it at full volume, not mumbling. Your dad will either go aggressive, in which case you leave immediately (and I mean immediately-this is important, your dad doesn't get to control you), or he will be so shocked that he will STFU.
Ryan will need to do this for several visits until your dad is trained. Not ideal and not how a well adjusted relationship works. But it's how bullies work.
posted by quarterframer at 7:14 AM on June 30, 2010
From your description, your father is a bully. Let's face it, it could not matter less that Ryan is fat. He could be average (or exceptional) in every way and your Dad will still do a smackdown.
Show up unannounced when you know they'll be home (which, since he controls your mother like this, I am guessing is most of the time). Introduce Ryan. Ryan should immediately say something snide about your dad's appearance, or the car or the house, or your dad's line of work. He should say it at full volume, not mumbling. Your dad will either go aggressive, in which case you leave immediately (and I mean immediately-this is important, your dad doesn't get to control you), or he will be so shocked that he will STFU.
Ryan will need to do this for several visits until your dad is trained. Not ideal and not how a well adjusted relationship works. But it's how bullies work.
posted by quarterframer at 7:14 AM on June 30, 2010
Your dad ain't changing no matter what you say to him in advance. Ryan is overweight. That cannot be a surprise to Ryan. Tell him all about your dad. Let him decide if he still wants to go. I would NOT stay in a hotel. If I went, it would be with my head held high and stay in the family house. (I have no problem with a 2 hour drive and would likely make it a day trip.) If Ryan is willing to go and put up with whatever is dished his way, staying in the house won't be a big deal. If you stay elsewhere it looks defensive like you have something to hide. I would also talk to your mother. Prep her. She will talk to your dad, although it won't help much. If you have your mum and your bro prepped in advance and on your side, the isolation of your dad's feelings may mitigate them.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:15 AM on June 30, 2010
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:15 AM on June 30, 2010
If your father is a fan of some sports team or has a hobby, you could try to plan your visit to coincide with a big game or event. That way your dad would have an excuse to choose not to participate, or something else to distract him during your visit.
posted by jefeweiss at 9:03 AM on June 30, 2010
posted by jefeweiss at 9:03 AM on June 30, 2010
Nthing the advice to stay in a hotel (or with other friends near your family's home). Prepare Ryan for your father's behavior in advance of the visit. Tell him the truth: that one reason you've been hesitant to introduce Ryan to your family is your dad's tendency to be openly judgmental of your friends and boyfriends, and it's difficult for you to imagine standing by while your dad says hurtful things. Offer to go with your mom and brother to your hotel for alone time. A room of your own away from your family's home can also afford you and Ryan some time to debrief after a (potentially) awkward visit with your father.
Advice to talk Ryan into a "smackdown" with your dad is, in my opinion, a little misguided, and it could make long-term enmity between Ryan and your father into a certainty, rather than just a potentiality. You are thinking about spending your life with this person; he will have to get on with your father, at least in public situations, for the foreseeable future. (Questionable behavior on Ryan's part might also create tension between you and your mom. Don't make her have to "take sides." Especially in front of a guest.) Encourage Ryan to be himself: polite, charming, interesting, and caring. Maybe your dad will get used to the idea of Ryan sticking around, maybe not, but your mom and brother will certainly warm up to him if they see that he's self-assured, polite, and kind, even in your dad's company.
Good luck!
posted by Spinneret at 9:24 AM on June 30, 2010
Advice to talk Ryan into a "smackdown" with your dad is, in my opinion, a little misguided, and it could make long-term enmity between Ryan and your father into a certainty, rather than just a potentiality. You are thinking about spending your life with this person; he will have to get on with your father, at least in public situations, for the foreseeable future. (Questionable behavior on Ryan's part might also create tension between you and your mom. Don't make her have to "take sides." Especially in front of a guest.) Encourage Ryan to be himself: polite, charming, interesting, and caring. Maybe your dad will get used to the idea of Ryan sticking around, maybe not, but your mom and brother will certainly warm up to him if they see that he's self-assured, polite, and kind, even in your dad's company.
Good luck!
posted by Spinneret at 9:24 AM on June 30, 2010
Best answer: Call ahead and tell him that Ryan is very overweight...
I wouldn't. This is creepy. Etiquette demands you warn the decent about the dangers of the horrible, not the other way around.
It would be caving in to your dad's distorted and controlling vision of how things should be, and then you're just validating his opinion of reality as a Place Where My Daughter Shouldn't Sleep With Fat Guys, And She Knows It.
It would also be disrespectful to your boyfriend to treat his physical presence as something so aberrant that your family requires a prior warning. You definitely do not give the impression of being the sort of person who would do this.
Furthermore, if your father is known to be thoughtless in this regard and a bit of an intolerable, explosive, verbally-abusive muttering asshole, why supply him a script? Let him push the buttons you've already got, and he'll just have to improvise his new material when you get there.
Do warn Ryan that he's walking into the jerkzone, and maybe establish a code word to use when either of you has had enough and you want to make your escape. You could even tell your mom and brother that it means to meet you at the pancake house in thirty minutes. How about this one? "I hear Salvador Dali is dead!" "Oh no! Let's get out of here! Goodbye, everyone!"
Too surreal? How about "I hear Dad's a social dinosaur as welcome as farts in a marching band!" "You're right, sis, let's go eat pancakes without him!"
posted by Sallyfur at 10:04 AM on June 30, 2010 [4 favorites]
I wouldn't. This is creepy. Etiquette demands you warn the decent about the dangers of the horrible, not the other way around.
It would be caving in to your dad's distorted and controlling vision of how things should be, and then you're just validating his opinion of reality as a Place Where My Daughter Shouldn't Sleep With Fat Guys, And She Knows It.
It would also be disrespectful to your boyfriend to treat his physical presence as something so aberrant that your family requires a prior warning. You definitely do not give the impression of being the sort of person who would do this.
Furthermore, if your father is known to be thoughtless in this regard and a bit of an intolerable, explosive, verbally-abusive muttering asshole, why supply him a script? Let him push the buttons you've already got, and he'll just have to improvise his new material when you get there.
Do warn Ryan that he's walking into the jerkzone, and maybe establish a code word to use when either of you has had enough and you want to make your escape. You could even tell your mom and brother that it means to meet you at the pancake house in thirty minutes. How about this one? "I hear Salvador Dali is dead!" "Oh no! Let's get out of here! Goodbye, everyone!"
Too surreal? How about "I hear Dad's a social dinosaur as welcome as farts in a marching band!" "You're right, sis, let's go eat pancakes without him!"
posted by Sallyfur at 10:04 AM on June 30, 2010 [4 favorites]
I've explained to Ryan about how unpleasant visits with my father can be, but he still worries that I don't value him enough to introduce him to my family.
No, no, no. It's exactly the opposite. Your aren't embarassed to introduce Ryan to your family. You are embarassed to introduce your family (well, your Dad) to Ryan.
Did you ever see the movie "Real Genius"? Great flick. Near the end of that movie Mitch is talking to his wierd-n-wacky girlfriend Jordan. She's wondering when she can meet his parents. He says that he doesn't think that would be a good idea.
Jordan: Why, are you ashamed of me?
Mitch: No, them
Jordan: Oh
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 10:19 AM on June 30, 2010
No, no, no. It's exactly the opposite. Your aren't embarassed to introduce Ryan to your family. You are embarassed to introduce your family (well, your Dad) to Ryan.
Did you ever see the movie "Real Genius"? Great flick. Near the end of that movie Mitch is talking to his wierd-n-wacky girlfriend Jordan. She's wondering when she can meet his parents. He says that he doesn't think that would be a good idea.
Jordan: Why, are you ashamed of me?
Mitch: No, them
Jordan: Oh
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 10:19 AM on June 30, 2010
One little addition to the good advice here, check in with Ryan about how he would like you to react to any abusive or derisive comments.
In my experience, what hurts in these situations is not necessarily the actions of the family member (he's not Ryan's dad and Ryan will have been warned that there's the potential for unpleasantness), but those of the SO or other "good guys." For example, ignoring muttered comments could make Ryan think that you aren't willing to stand up for your boyfriend. On the other hand, Ryan might be embarrassed if you made a fuss defending him.
Decide on a plan that works for you and then talk with Ryan about what you decide. If he's up for the visit, then make sure you're clear about what to do if things go sour. Then, even if your dad is a jerk, Ryan will know that you care about him and his feelings.
posted by annaramma at 10:30 AM on June 30, 2010
In my experience, what hurts in these situations is not necessarily the actions of the family member (he's not Ryan's dad and Ryan will have been warned that there's the potential for unpleasantness), but those of the SO or other "good guys." For example, ignoring muttered comments could make Ryan think that you aren't willing to stand up for your boyfriend. On the other hand, Ryan might be embarrassed if you made a fuss defending him.
Decide on a plan that works for you and then talk with Ryan about what you decide. If he's up for the visit, then make sure you're clear about what to do if things go sour. Then, even if your dad is a jerk, Ryan will know that you care about him and his feelings.
posted by annaramma at 10:30 AM on June 30, 2010
Best answer: This situation really sucks. I was there in my twenties more than once. Based on my experiences here are some thoughts about your situation:
1) Are you sure that your mom wants to meet your boyfriend and would treat him kindly? Sweet as she is, are you certain that she wouldn't act on any prejudices she might harbor towards your boyfriend? That's really the question. You say she wants to see you, but you don't say she wants to meet him. Maybe she tells you she wants to meet him thinking that's the only way you'll come to visit?
2) If the answer to 1) is "I don't know," then visit your family on your own to find out from your mom what she thinks about meeting Ryan.
4) 23 is not 18 but it is really young. At that age I wanted to introduce boyfriends to my parents because I finally felt like an adult. Now that I'm older, I know better than to tell them anything about my personal life. Time has shown that they are insane and set in their ways. If you're looking for acceptance for your boyfriend, you might never get it. It will hurt, but you will adjust in time.
5) If you confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt that your mother really does want to meet Ryan, and that doing so won't make her life with your dad a living hell, ask her about the best way to handle your father. She'll know better than anyone here. Don't be disappointed if the answer is vague-- that she wants to meet him but now is not a good time.
6) Maybe a compromise is to introduce Ryan to your siblings but not your parents?
Believe me, it is better to postpone introducing Ryan to your parents than to introduce him and for it to end in a scene. If you try to manage a meeting without the active cooperation and support of your mother, it's almost guaranteed to end badly. I wish you the best of luck.
posted by vincele at 10:51 AM on June 30, 2010
1) Are you sure that your mom wants to meet your boyfriend and would treat him kindly? Sweet as she is, are you certain that she wouldn't act on any prejudices she might harbor towards your boyfriend? That's really the question. You say she wants to see you, but you don't say she wants to meet him. Maybe she tells you she wants to meet him thinking that's the only way you'll come to visit?
2) If the answer to 1) is "I don't know," then visit your family on your own to find out from your mom what she thinks about meeting Ryan.
4) 23 is not 18 but it is really young. At that age I wanted to introduce boyfriends to my parents because I finally felt like an adult. Now that I'm older, I know better than to tell them anything about my personal life. Time has shown that they are insane and set in their ways. If you're looking for acceptance for your boyfriend, you might never get it. It will hurt, but you will adjust in time.
5) If you confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt that your mother really does want to meet Ryan, and that doing so won't make her life with your dad a living hell, ask her about the best way to handle your father. She'll know better than anyone here. Don't be disappointed if the answer is vague-- that she wants to meet him but now is not a good time.
6) Maybe a compromise is to introduce Ryan to your siblings but not your parents?
Believe me, it is better to postpone introducing Ryan to your parents than to introduce him and for it to end in a scene. If you try to manage a meeting without the active cooperation and support of your mother, it's almost guaranteed to end badly. I wish you the best of luck.
posted by vincele at 10:51 AM on June 30, 2010
It's a two hour drive. Go out there for lunch. Forget hotel rooms - there is no reason at all to set this up as an epic, 48 - 72 hour disaster fest. Meet your mom, brother and dad for a meal, let your father do his thing, and see how it goes.
When it, predictably, goes horribly wrong, at least you're not looking at another two days of plans you have to bail out of with massive drama. Ryan gets to meet the family, your father gets to hate on Ryan, and you get to leave - all on a brief, manageable schedule.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:50 AM on June 30, 2010 [3 favorites]
When it, predictably, goes horribly wrong, at least you're not looking at another two days of plans you have to bail out of with massive drama. Ryan gets to meet the family, your father gets to hate on Ryan, and you get to leave - all on a brief, manageable schedule.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:50 AM on June 30, 2010 [3 favorites]
Introduce Ryan. Ryan should immediately say something snide about your dad's appearance, or the car or the house, or your dad's line of work.
I cannot urge you strongly enough not to do this.
posted by decagon at 12:00 PM on June 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
I cannot urge you strongly enough not to do this.
posted by decagon at 12:00 PM on June 30, 2010 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Paying for my mom to visit me might work, especially if I buy her a ticket to some kind of cultural event... maybe a play or an art exhibit, since my father hates that kind of thing, so I doubt he'd be too suspicious/offended about not being invited. Making plans with just my brother could work too. Maybe we could take him to a concert, since he and Ryan and I all have fairly similar taste in music.
If we do end up visiting for lunch or dinner, I really like the idea of sitting down with Ryan before the visit and coming up with a very specific gameplan to use if things just get too awful. Sallyfur's suggestion of using code phrases seems especially helpful. Even if we don't end up using them, I think we'll both feel more in control of the situation just knowing that we have the option.
plinth touched on something interesting... I do worry that Ryan might decide that dealing with my family for the rest of his life just isn't a price of admission he's willing to pay. I know I would be incredibly hurt if my partner's family disliked me for reasons I couldn't help, and if it were bad enough, I think it would cause me to reconsider marriage.
posted by arianell at 5:45 PM on June 30, 2010
If we do end up visiting for lunch or dinner, I really like the idea of sitting down with Ryan before the visit and coming up with a very specific gameplan to use if things just get too awful. Sallyfur's suggestion of using code phrases seems especially helpful. Even if we don't end up using them, I think we'll both feel more in control of the situation just knowing that we have the option.
plinth touched on something interesting... I do worry that Ryan might decide that dealing with my family for the rest of his life just isn't a price of admission he's willing to pay. I know I would be incredibly hurt if my partner's family disliked me for reasons I couldn't help, and if it were bad enough, I think it would cause me to reconsider marriage.
posted by arianell at 5:45 PM on June 30, 2010
I've actually experienced a similar situation with my now fiance. My dad can be very overbearing, and very opinionated. He also treats my mom extremely bad. I've always been afraid to introduce friends or girlfriends to him because I was afraid at what he might say or how he would treat my mom in front of them. I'm not like him. In the end, of course I had to have my fiance meet my parents before getting engaged. Like your mom....my mom is a great person. So I eventually invited my fiance home for a long weekend. How did it go? To be honest...not so good. My dad was extremely rude and extremely embarrassing. My mom was great. The end result? My fiance didn't care. She still loves me and wants to marry me. She let everything my dad said go in one ear and out the other. She read my dad right from the moment she met him. And what I can do about my dad? Nothing. He is the way he is. If my fiance wants to marry me, she must accept my family even if my dad is a total jerk. And you know what...she does. She doesn't have to like my dad or even have much to do with him. But he's my dad and as long as he's married to my mom it's impossible not to associate myself with him. So...it may be hard to introduce your boyfriend to your family but if you want to marry him...eventually it's probably something that must be done. Warning him first will help. And in the end, if he loves you it won't change your relationship in any way. I would keep the meet up on the shorter side. 3 or 4 days at the most. Whatever you do...don't leave your boyfriend alone with your dad. That would suck. I left my fiance alone with my dad for 5 minutes and she said that if I ever did that again she'd kill me, lol. In terms of how to give Ryan a better undstanding about the situation without hurting his feelings...tell him what you've told us. Simply...your dad is a biggit. And he often says things that are rude and hurtful. He says things about the way people look, what people do, how people act...etc. No need to be too specific. The other thing to keep in mind...by not introducing Ryan to your family, he'll think you don't what your family to meet him because of him...not your dad. That's the way he'll take it...trust me. So I wish you the best of luck here. There's no easy way to tackle this. I hope all goes well.
posted by ljs30 at 4:25 PM on July 6, 2010
posted by ljs30 at 4:25 PM on July 6, 2010
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posted by epj at 4:39 AM on June 30, 2010 [1 favorite]