Lost in Skane, without any sandwiches
June 28, 2010 7:09 AM
I've been making my way through Henning Mankell's Wallander series and I hoped MeFi could give me some context about a few things. Including sandwiches.
Fair disclosure: I don't love these books, and perhaps that's something you can help with. But I have two more I bought used, and by hook or by crook I'm going to read them.
First, can someone put Skane and Ystad in a U.S. context for me, to the extent such parallels exist? Ystad seems to be about 400 miles from Stockholm, but it is closer to Sweden's European neighbors. Is Skane Sweden's insular backwoods (say, Maine)? Or simply a less populated periphery (say, Cape Cod)? I presume some of this context may have appeared in the first book, Faceless Killers, but I read that when it came out in the U.S. years ago, and can't remember.
Second, as an American, Wallander's constant bewilderment over crime seems, at best, quaint. Virtually everything is beyond the pale. I realize that the "decline" of Swedish society is a, if not the, central theme of the Wallander books--but is it accurate? Is Mankell/Wallander voicing a zeitgeist of the mid to late 90s Sweden, or was it out of touch even then? Contrast the Larsson books, written a few years later, which are significantly more sophisticated in their treatment of crime (noting that Larsson was, essentially, a crime reporter and had more contact with the criminal element).
Third, is Mankell a bad writer, or are we just getting bad translations? Take these gems from The Fifth Woman, which I'm reading now: "I can't accept a normal motive--if there is such a thing for taking someone's life." Do Swedes talk like this, or does this sound less stilted in Swedish? Similarly, a kidnap victim teeters on the edge of madness after days of isolation in the dark: "Beyond the growing madness, these were the only things he had left to hold on to. Everything else had been taken from him, not merely his identity, but also his trousers." Ugh. Once every other chapter there is a similarly groan-worthy line.
Fourth, is there a simple online resource, preferably with audio, that would help with Swedish pronunciation? Wikipedia provides some help, but generally only with geography, and generally not with audio. See Skane, which doesn't have IPA.
Last, what is it with Mankell and sandwiches? Is this a Swedish thing? Dozens of times in the stories and novels I've read so far, characters are described as eating, generically, "sandwiches." Never "a sandwich" or "a herring sandwich" or "cucumber and cheese sandwiches." Just "sandwiches," as in "Wallender went to the restaurant and ordered a coffee and sandwiches." It's like a sandwich mania.
Tack så mycket!
Fair disclosure: I don't love these books, and perhaps that's something you can help with. But I have two more I bought used, and by hook or by crook I'm going to read them.
First, can someone put Skane and Ystad in a U.S. context for me, to the extent such parallels exist? Ystad seems to be about 400 miles from Stockholm, but it is closer to Sweden's European neighbors. Is Skane Sweden's insular backwoods (say, Maine)? Or simply a less populated periphery (say, Cape Cod)? I presume some of this context may have appeared in the first book, Faceless Killers, but I read that when it came out in the U.S. years ago, and can't remember.
Second, as an American, Wallander's constant bewilderment over crime seems, at best, quaint. Virtually everything is beyond the pale. I realize that the "decline" of Swedish society is a, if not the, central theme of the Wallander books--but is it accurate? Is Mankell/Wallander voicing a zeitgeist of the mid to late 90s Sweden, or was it out of touch even then? Contrast the Larsson books, written a few years later, which are significantly more sophisticated in their treatment of crime (noting that Larsson was, essentially, a crime reporter and had more contact with the criminal element).
Third, is Mankell a bad writer, or are we just getting bad translations? Take these gems from The Fifth Woman, which I'm reading now: "I can't accept a normal motive--if there is such a thing for taking someone's life." Do Swedes talk like this, or does this sound less stilted in Swedish? Similarly, a kidnap victim teeters on the edge of madness after days of isolation in the dark: "Beyond the growing madness, these were the only things he had left to hold on to. Everything else had been taken from him, not merely his identity, but also his trousers." Ugh. Once every other chapter there is a similarly groan-worthy line.
Fourth, is there a simple online resource, preferably with audio, that would help with Swedish pronunciation? Wikipedia provides some help, but generally only with geography, and generally not with audio. See Skane, which doesn't have IPA.
Last, what is it with Mankell and sandwiches? Is this a Swedish thing? Dozens of times in the stories and novels I've read so far, characters are described as eating, generically, "sandwiches." Never "a sandwich" or "a herring sandwich" or "cucumber and cheese sandwiches." Just "sandwiches," as in "Wallender went to the restaurant and ordered a coffee and sandwiches." It's like a sandwich mania.
Tack så mycket!
...and hey!
Mankell IS making money with those books. So, I am not sure to what degree they reflect his true values and artistic aspirations as writer. Mankell himself is strongly dedicating his time to developing African society.
DB
posted by Doggiebreath at 8:23 AM on June 28, 2010
Mankell IS making money with those books. So, I am not sure to what degree they reflect his true values and artistic aspirations as writer. Mankell himself is strongly dedicating his time to developing African society.
DB
posted by Doggiebreath at 8:23 AM on June 28, 2010
I won't comment on Mankell as I haven't read him, but Swedish authors have in my limited experience (cos I can't bear them) a tendency to focus on the mundane. I don't know if they think they are keeping it real or what, but good god... That might explain the sammiges thing.
For pronunciation, Lexin might be your best bet. The swe-swe translation engine offers little mp3s of super-enunciated Swedish. This is mainly used to make the computer say "cock" in a middle-aged-teacher voice. She says Skå-ne as two syllables which will make it easier to hear, but it would be generally pronounced more fluidly.
There is no need to specify the type of sammiges had btw, the only sammiges available in Sweden are ham and/or cheese with a half a slice of paprika on. The other option would be brie and parma ham (see what I mean?) but then they would have specified he was having a ciabatta.
posted by Iteki at 9:15 AM on June 28, 2010
For pronunciation, Lexin might be your best bet. The swe-swe translation engine offers little mp3s of super-enunciated Swedish. This is mainly used to make the computer say "cock" in a middle-aged-teacher voice. She says Skå-ne as two syllables which will make it easier to hear, but it would be generally pronounced more fluidly.
There is no need to specify the type of sammiges had btw, the only sammiges available in Sweden are ham and/or cheese with a half a slice of paprika on. The other option would be brie and parma ham (see what I mean?) but then they would have specified he was having a ciabatta.
posted by Iteki at 9:15 AM on June 28, 2010
I think the Mankell books are translated a bit clunkily. Same with Stieg Larsson. (Maybe a native Swedish speaker could confirm?)
I noticed the contrast when I read K.O. Dahl's excellent The Fourth Man -- I know he's Norwegian, but the text flowed far more smoothly than the books by those two authors. I didn't notice anything that pulled me up and made me think, "Oh, this wasn't written in English." (He's described in blurbs as "the Norwegian Mankell" -- well worth checking out.)
posted by vickyverky at 10:16 AM on June 28, 2010
I noticed the contrast when I read K.O. Dahl's excellent The Fourth Man -- I know he's Norwegian, but the text flowed far more smoothly than the books by those two authors. I didn't notice anything that pulled me up and made me think, "Oh, this wasn't written in English." (He's described in blurbs as "the Norwegian Mankell" -- well worth checking out.)
posted by vickyverky at 10:16 AM on June 28, 2010
Btw, a googling in Swedish shows that yeah, apparently sammiges and Wallander is a thing. Couldn't find any more detailed info other than "this is where Wallander eats his famous sammiges" and "Wallander likes sammiges" and so forth. However, I did find evidence that it is sillamacka that is his sammige of choice, in which case sandwich is a criminal mistranslation. Sillamacka is a slice of rye bread, with a herring on it. The herring should be deboned and butterflied but the skin left on. Ideally first pickled, it is breaded and fried and served on bread with thinly sliced red onion.
posted by Iteki at 11:10 AM on June 28, 2010
posted by Iteki at 11:10 AM on June 28, 2010
I haven't read the book's in English, but I would consider Mankell a pretty good writer so I blame it on bad translations.
posted by furisto at 1:42 PM on June 28, 2010
posted by furisto at 1:42 PM on June 28, 2010
the only sammiges available in Sweden are ham and/or cheese with a half a slice of paprika on. The other option would be brie and parma ham
This is kinda funny, but obviously not true. Please don't believe this to be the cause of Wallander's sandwich thing. Iteki must live on a Swedish State Railways train circa 1970.
posted by soundofsuburbia at 3:29 PM on June 28, 2010
This is kinda funny, but obviously not true. Please don't believe this to be the cause of Wallander's sandwich thing. Iteki must live on a Swedish State Railways train circa 1970.
posted by soundofsuburbia at 3:29 PM on June 28, 2010
I'll concur that the translations are a bit rough and sometimes outright sloppy, but I enjoyed the books nonetheless. In my readings of the books, I generally got the impressions that Doggiebreath and Iteki outline, so I guess the translations/writing can't be that bad?
nitpick apologies ahead of time: Also, Maine? Insular backwoods? I'm nitpicking because I am sitting in Portland, ME right now, which is the largest foreign inbound tonnage transit port in the United States and the largest oil port on the Eastern seaboard, and home to 250,000 people in the metro area. Plus, as insular etymology goes, Cape Code is closer to insular by geographic standards alone!
posted by mbatch at 5:10 PM on June 28, 2010
nitpick apologies ahead of time: Also, Maine? Insular backwoods? I'm nitpicking because I am sitting in Portland, ME right now, which is the largest foreign inbound tonnage transit port in the United States and the largest oil port on the Eastern seaboard, and home to 250,000 people in the metro area. Plus, as insular etymology goes, Cape Code is closer to insular by geographic standards alone!
posted by mbatch at 5:10 PM on June 28, 2010
Very interesting--even responses about sandwiches, which I thought was a longshot. The Lexin site produced some revelations about pronunciation, which was great. I'll definitely look for Dahl's books.
And pick them nits all you want, mbatch! Maine has less than .5% of the U.S. population, and apparently, its claim to fame is that Portland is a hub for imports. If that's all it has going for it, I'd definitely say insular backwoods. I keed, I keed! I love your LL Bean outlet.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 6:06 AM on June 30, 2010
And pick them nits all you want, mbatch! Maine has less than .5% of the U.S. population, and apparently, its claim to fame is that Portland is a hub for imports. If that's all it has going for it, I'd definitely say insular backwoods. I keed, I keed! I love your LL Bean outlet.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 6:06 AM on June 30, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
Then, Scania is not urban but still there has always been people coming and going, as even nowadays it lies in the triangle of the capitals of three countries (Stockholm, Oslo, Copenhagen).
The countries have different, although related languages and cultures. Further, there are tons of people traveling to and from Germany, Poland and Baltic Countries because of regular ferry connections over the Baltic Sea.
In Sweden, many people have their summer places in Scania. As Copenhagen is so close, and there are other larger cities in the vicinity (Malmö, Göteborg) the people sometimes haven't even visited in Stockholm. In other words, there is a orientation towards south.
As an outcome, the area is interesting as a setting for stories, and not comparable to the US cities. Ystad is small and gorgeous little town, so plenty murders in such a small place :) Still, not really remote or insular backwoods by any means.
2) The degeneration of Swedish welfare society is not really as colorful as he presents. It is merely a style, and not supposed to portray the reality as is. You could also try Åke Edwardson's Inspector Winter novels, if you search more realism. They are located in Gothenburg, Southern Sweden. For colorful and rough, but less romantic, try Norwegian Jo Nesbo's books located in Oslo.
3) I am not a native English speaker, so better not comment on translations. Only, the stories do not aspire for creating American style ummmm..... perfect Shakespearean arch or mood. Thus, classifying him simply as "bad" might be a strong statement, and in the eye of the beholder. I don't know, I am not reading that given style that much, but I recognize his ability to describe Scandinavian life style and people in they everyday chores, and how they are pondering what is essential for them in their lives.
DB
posted by Doggiebreath at 8:15 AM on June 28, 2010