Drop everything and go?
March 7, 2010 12:16 PM
Is it legal for my employer to randomly pre-approve days where it is okay to earn overtime hours while denying it on other days?
What happens nine times out of ten is that my boss will come into the work area and say something like "Hey guys, Bob says there's no overtime today." Bob is my boss's boss and oversees several departments within the organization I work for. On those days where we can't get overtime we have to clock out on the dot after our shifts end, and staying even a couple of minutes late is enough for everyone to start hyperventilating about getting in trouble with Bob. If we haven't finished our work or done all of our tasks for the day it doesn't matter, we have to drop everything and leave. Like I said, very rarely does Bob approve overtime. I know this is because the organization just wants to save money and avoid paying overtime, I just want to know how legal this practice is.
What happens nine times out of ten is that my boss will come into the work area and say something like "Hey guys, Bob says there's no overtime today." Bob is my boss's boss and oversees several departments within the organization I work for. On those days where we can't get overtime we have to clock out on the dot after our shifts end, and staying even a couple of minutes late is enough for everyone to start hyperventilating about getting in trouble with Bob. If we haven't finished our work or done all of our tasks for the day it doesn't matter, we have to drop everything and leave. Like I said, very rarely does Bob approve overtime. I know this is because the organization just wants to save money and avoid paying overtime, I just want to know how legal this practice is.
Seems fine to me. Working (and getting paid for) overtime is not a right. Your employer should be deciding when it is appropriate for its employees to work overtime.
posted by donajo at 12:23 PM on March 7, 2010
posted by donajo at 12:23 PM on March 7, 2010
Completely legal, I've also worked in jobs where there was mandatory overtime due to deadlines - it's also, as I understand it, legal.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 12:26 PM on March 7, 2010
posted by The Light Fantastic at 12:26 PM on March 7, 2010
Yeah. If your boss was making you clock out but continue working, then it would be a problem.
That said, I might take this as a signal that, perhaps, you should get your resume dusted-off. This making-everyone-clock-out-and-leave-on-the-button behavior sounds like they're having a bit of a cash-flow problem.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:27 PM on March 7, 2010
That said, I might take this as a signal that, perhaps, you should get your resume dusted-off. This making-everyone-clock-out-and-leave-on-the-button behavior sounds like they're having a bit of a cash-flow problem.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:27 PM on March 7, 2010
Just a slight disagreement with Thorzad. This might be a sign that Bob's boss is carefully managing his budget. If he has budget authority for "X" hours of O.T. during a pay period, and you guys have used it up, he will cut it off so as not to go over budget and have to explain it. When his next budget period (week? two weeks? month?) opens up, there is O.T. available again. I saw this in a company that I worked for 15 years ago and they're still in business.
posted by Old Geezer at 12:34 PM on March 7, 2010
posted by Old Geezer at 12:34 PM on March 7, 2010
Of course it's legal for the company not to pay you overtime if you're not working over time.
Why would you think that you should be paid for work you're not doing?
posted by dfriedman at 1:42 PM on March 7, 2010
Why would you think that you should be paid for work you're not doing?
posted by dfriedman at 1:42 PM on March 7, 2010
Hmm, I thought it was probably legal but since illegal things like asking us to clock out but keep working unpaid does happen, I wanted to ask and be sure. Thanks, everyone!
posted by Shesthefastest at 2:02 PM on March 7, 2010
posted by Shesthefastest at 2:02 PM on March 7, 2010
Most certainly not. Making you work while not getting paid is illegal in every state of the union.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:16 PM on March 7, 2010
posted by Ironmouth at 3:16 PM on March 7, 2010
They're perfectly legit to say they aren't paying for any overtime. Sounds like the boss's boss is doing what he's supposed to do - keep ahead of the budget. Now the manager below Bob (your boss) needs to get on the ball and figure out how to get all the work done in the time allowed without needing to spend OT money.
DO NOT help your boss not do his job but still look like he is by working for free. (And actually, when you think of it like that, "working for free" instead of "just finishing this last thing even though I'm off the clock," it's a lot more clear what you should do.) "No OT authorized" is your cue to say, "Ok, bye then. See you tomorrow."
Offer to stay to help if they need you to. Where "need you to" equals "will pay for it."
posted by ctmf at 4:48 PM on March 7, 2010
DO NOT help your boss not do his job but still look like he is by working for free. (And actually, when you think of it like that, "working for free" instead of "just finishing this last thing even though I'm off the clock," it's a lot more clear what you should do.) "No OT authorized" is your cue to say, "Ok, bye then. See you tomorrow."
Offer to stay to help if they need you to. Where "need you to" equals "will pay for it."
posted by ctmf at 4:48 PM on March 7, 2010
Yeah, already said, but personal anecdote: part of my job as Manager is to take people's timecards and tell them what time they have to leave on Friday so they don't go over 40 hours. Not illegal, and if their job doesn't have overtime authorized then they get sent home before they get to that point. That doesn't stop some from 'slipping' through, 10-15min here and there, so if they worked 40.1 hours in a week, we pay them for 40.1 -- but employees can't expect to work as many hours as they feel like if they're not scheduled for it.
It does sound like Bob's boss is closely watching the amount of billable hours versus workload, to keep a certain amount of profit always going. If a bunch of people work overtime this week and get something done sooner, it's going to cost more than if it just ran into next week, but if there's more work coming in or a deadline is looming, it may be more cost-effective to push more work through the chute, hence needing overtime.
posted by AzraelBrown at 5:05 PM on March 7, 2010
It does sound like Bob's boss is closely watching the amount of billable hours versus workload, to keep a certain amount of profit always going. If a bunch of people work overtime this week and get something done sooner, it's going to cost more than if it just ran into next week, but if there's more work coming in or a deadline is looming, it may be more cost-effective to push more work through the chute, hence needing overtime.
posted by AzraelBrown at 5:05 PM on March 7, 2010
Do note that if you are exempt from the provisions of the Fair Labor Standards Act, all of the above advice is incorrect at the federal level. There is no notion of an "hourly employee" - just exempt or non-exempt. If you are a professional employee, an engineer, or your employer does less than $500,000 in business every year, the FLSA does not apply, and unpaid mandated overtime is legal unless your specific state prohibits it. I was not able to find Pennsylvania-specific labor laws with a quick search, so you're on your own there.
posted by saeculorum at 5:10 PM on March 7, 2010
posted by saeculorum at 5:10 PM on March 7, 2010
On those days where we can't get overtime we have to clock out on the dot after our shifts end, and staying even a couple of minutes late is enough for everyone to start hyperventilating about getting in trouble with Bob. If we haven't finished our work or done all of our tasks for the day it doesn't matter, we have to drop everything and leave
That seems perfectly clear - they are saying "No overtime pay is authorized - and that means everyone has to stop what they are doing and leave now."
That implies that a) They actually do pay you over overtime otherwise and b) they have an overtime budget that they have to manage, and c) they are very serious about not having anyone working off-the-clock, nor paying anyone any overtime at all.
I can't read anything into your post that suggests anything dishonest going on.... the only fishy part is that they seem to be actually following rules.
posted by TravellingDen at 8:24 PM on March 7, 2010
That seems perfectly clear - they are saying "No overtime pay is authorized - and that means everyone has to stop what they are doing and leave now."
That implies that a) They actually do pay you over overtime otherwise and b) they have an overtime budget that they have to manage, and c) they are very serious about not having anyone working off-the-clock, nor paying anyone any overtime at all.
I can't read anything into your post that suggests anything dishonest going on.... the only fishy part is that they seem to be actually following rules.
posted by TravellingDen at 8:24 PM on March 7, 2010
" Do note that if you are exempt from the provisions of the Fair Labor Standards Act, all of the above advice is incorrect at the federal level. There is no notion of an 'hourly employee' - just exempt or non-exempt. If you are a professional employee, an engineer, or your employer does less than $500,000 in business every year, the FLSA does not apply, and unpaid mandated overtime is legal unless your specific state prohibits it. I was not able to find Pennsylvania-specific labor laws with a quick search, so you're on your own there."
Either way not allowing employees to work past a time where the company would pay over time (even if that overtime isn't required by law) wouldn't be illegal.
posted by Mitheral at 1:00 AM on March 8, 2010
Either way not allowing employees to work past a time where the company would pay over time (even if that overtime isn't required by law) wouldn't be illegal.
posted by Mitheral at 1:00 AM on March 8, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Tomorrowful at 12:21 PM on March 7, 2010