I'm not a luddite (I own an iPod!)
February 17, 2010 5:21 AM Subscribe
Should I join Facebook?
For the longest time I've resisted Facebook. Professionally I do a lot of work in analytics, and I've seen the sorts of associations that can be made with even sparing amounts of social interaction data. But it may be useful for staying in touch with friends (and even professional contacts). Should I just get over myself? What say you, hive mind?
For the longest time I've resisted Facebook. Professionally I do a lot of work in analytics, and I've seen the sorts of associations that can be made with even sparing amounts of social interaction data. But it may be useful for staying in touch with friends (and even professional contacts). Should I just get over myself? What say you, hive mind?
If you do, be careful how much info you add. I'm on there, but I don't use my full complete name.
posted by Solomon at 5:28 AM on February 17, 2010
posted by Solomon at 5:28 AM on February 17, 2010
I held out for a while but eventually joined because a lot of my otherwise non-online family joined so it turns out to be a nice way to keep in touch.
Basically I just feed my blog and flickr and other existing feeds into Facebook (and make them private to friends), so I never really make posts specifically there. I block applications and "friends of friends" from seeing my friends list. I quickly add any new games my contacts take up to my ignore list. I ignore all requests to join groups, etc.
So I am "on facebook" but it is really minimal effort by me and there's nothing on there from me that isn't posted elsewhere anyway.
posted by mikepop at 5:30 AM on February 17, 2010 [2 favorites]
Basically I just feed my blog and flickr and other existing feeds into Facebook (and make them private to friends), so I never really make posts specifically there. I block applications and "friends of friends" from seeing my friends list. I quickly add any new games my contacts take up to my ignore list. I ignore all requests to join groups, etc.
So I am "on facebook" but it is really minimal effort by me and there's nothing on there from me that isn't posted elsewhere anyway.
posted by mikepop at 5:30 AM on February 17, 2010 [2 favorites]
I do exactly as mikepop said. I joined it recently. If anyone tags me in a photo, I untag it and ask them not to tag me. I block all apps and keep my privacy settings to friends only.
posted by essexjan at 5:36 AM on February 17, 2010
posted by essexjan at 5:36 AM on February 17, 2010
You've posed this question in a forum that has a strong anti-Facebook bias. Any Mefi thread I've seen about Facebook brings on a flood of condemnatory comments, with few Facebook defenders. I don't think that's because no one on this site uses and likes Facebook, but those people are much less likely to say that in a comment.
But yeah, it's a good idea.
1. Stay in touch with friends. This can happen online or offline. For instance, I'll post status updates when I'm traveling ("John Cohen is packing for NYC" -- oh no, I just used my name on the internet!), which makes it easy for an old friend to meet up with me in NYC. While this could be done before Facebook, you never would have released the information to so many people, which increases the chances of getting in touch with people offline.
2. Find out about exciting events in people's lives. (This person just got engaged, this person just had a baby.)
3. Have easy access to people's contact info. Before Facebook, I hated having to keep track of people's email addresses in the event that I'd want to send them a message at some point in the future. Facebook makes this easy. (Of course, no one has to divulge contact info that they don't want to.
4. Share interesting links with your friends. Sometimes they'll make comments. It's like a personal Metafilter.
5. Despite the widespread criticism of Facebook privacy, their privacy settings are pretty sophisticated. You can customize your privacy level for many different areas of the site (with the exception of your main profile photo and things you're a "fan" of -- but you don't have to upload a profile photo or be a fan of anything). For instance, I can set it so that my status updates are viewable by all my friends, except a list of certain people, and no one who's not my friend. Then, when I post a status update, it will have those settings by default, but I'm also free to tweak the privacy for that specific status update. Look, some of the criticism of Facebook privacy is valid (especially for the abysmal Beacon program, which they wisely discontinued a long time ago), but I don't think it's a big problem if you exercise discretion and good taste (which it certainly sounds like you will).
posted by Jaltcoh at 5:50 AM on February 17, 2010 [8 favorites]
But yeah, it's a good idea.
1. Stay in touch with friends. This can happen online or offline. For instance, I'll post status updates when I'm traveling ("John Cohen is packing for NYC" -- oh no, I just used my name on the internet!), which makes it easy for an old friend to meet up with me in NYC. While this could be done before Facebook, you never would have released the information to so many people, which increases the chances of getting in touch with people offline.
2. Find out about exciting events in people's lives. (This person just got engaged, this person just had a baby.)
3. Have easy access to people's contact info. Before Facebook, I hated having to keep track of people's email addresses in the event that I'd want to send them a message at some point in the future. Facebook makes this easy. (Of course, no one has to divulge contact info that they don't want to.
4. Share interesting links with your friends. Sometimes they'll make comments. It's like a personal Metafilter.
5. Despite the widespread criticism of Facebook privacy, their privacy settings are pretty sophisticated. You can customize your privacy level for many different areas of the site (with the exception of your main profile photo and things you're a "fan" of -- but you don't have to upload a profile photo or be a fan of anything). For instance, I can set it so that my status updates are viewable by all my friends, except a list of certain people, and no one who's not my friend. Then, when I post a status update, it will have those settings by default, but I'm also free to tweak the privacy for that specific status update. Look, some of the criticism of Facebook privacy is valid (especially for the abysmal Beacon program, which they wisely discontinued a long time ago), but I don't think it's a big problem if you exercise discretion and good taste (which it certainly sounds like you will).
posted by Jaltcoh at 5:50 AM on February 17, 2010 [8 favorites]
I resisted for a long time as well, then decided to just do it a couple of months ago. I have not received a ton of spam, the occasional "Farmville" or "Mafia Wars" crap, but nothing insidious. Mostly I've been able to reconnect with a lot of long lost friends which has been a huge positive.
posted by Pollomacho at 5:50 AM on February 17, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Pollomacho at 5:50 AM on February 17, 2010 [2 favorites]
The more people who join Facebook, the greater the social pressure on everyone to become part of this private business' clientele. Their terms of service and privacy guards may be OK now, but why would the company care enough to keep them in place in the future if it seemed like "a good business decision" to share them? What if the company itself is sold, or new, more short-term-financial-gain management takes over?
Your one account may not seem like it would make much difference, but there's a whole lot of people in the world who don't do things like join Facebook. Mostly, they don't kick up a fuss because it seems futile; it seems futile because nobody's kicking up a fuss, so they all feel pretty alone and like they're going to be tagged as negative and fuddy-duddies and internet luddites. But they're out there, and they're mostly sensible people who appreciate the value of keeping their personal lives to themselves, and not becoming part of a huge pool of visual and textual data that's about their own lives but no longer belongs to them.
posted by amtho at 5:54 AM on February 17, 2010 [6 favorites]
Your one account may not seem like it would make much difference, but there's a whole lot of people in the world who don't do things like join Facebook. Mostly, they don't kick up a fuss because it seems futile; it seems futile because nobody's kicking up a fuss, so they all feel pretty alone and like they're going to be tagged as negative and fuddy-duddies and internet luddites. But they're out there, and they're mostly sensible people who appreciate the value of keeping their personal lives to themselves, and not becoming part of a huge pool of visual and textual data that's about their own lives but no longer belongs to them.
posted by amtho at 5:54 AM on February 17, 2010 [6 favorites]
Facebook is fine, it has allowed this otherwise non-social person to stay in touch with friends and family with minimal effort.
Facebook have also just launched a Lite version which does away with most of the crap third-party addons that get in the way.
posted by TheOtherGuy at 6:02 AM on February 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Facebook have also just launched a Lite version which does away with most of the crap third-party addons that get in the way.
posted by TheOtherGuy at 6:02 AM on February 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Out of curiousity, what are your specific privacy concerns?
I'm generally pretty privacy-paranoid, but I just can't think of anything anyone would gain by knowing what music my friends are listening to (for example). Maybe a future evil-Facebook could send targeted junk mail?
I'm way more concerned about people using services like Mint that give your entire financial history over to a third party, or that cell phone companies are already tracking our minute-to-minute locations and selling that data to the highest bidder.
posted by miyabo at 6:05 AM on February 17, 2010
I'm generally pretty privacy-paranoid, but I just can't think of anything anyone would gain by knowing what music my friends are listening to (for example). Maybe a future evil-Facebook could send targeted junk mail?
I'm way more concerned about people using services like Mint that give your entire financial history over to a third party, or that cell phone companies are already tracking our minute-to-minute locations and selling that data to the highest bidder.
posted by miyabo at 6:05 AM on February 17, 2010
I agree with Jaltcoh.
It's harmless, assuming you know what you're doing. That may be a big assumption for a lot of people but it sounds like you're going into it with open eyes.
posted by dfriedman at 6:06 AM on February 17, 2010
It's harmless, assuming you know what you're doing. That may be a big assumption for a lot of people but it sounds like you're going into it with open eyes.
posted by dfriedman at 6:06 AM on February 17, 2010
I'm on facebook, and it's a good way to reconnect with old friends, and to connect with people or groups with whom you share a common interest. It's also an easy way to share photos. There are lots of MeFites there, plus it's helped me to "meet" people who I will be meeting in person at upcoming events.
One caveat: I resist the urge to make facebook my main means of communication. That is a trend that truly annoys me. I've had friends seem offended that I didn't know what was going on in their lives because I didn't see some facebook update that scrolled by while I wasn't glued to the site. These are things that friends should share over, you know, dinner or something! Or at least a phone call.
For the record, I blame jessamyn for my facebook involvement. I had set up an account long ago, but never used it. My first friend request was from jessamyn, so that's when I looked into it.
posted by The Deej at 6:11 AM on February 17, 2010 [2 favorites]
One caveat: I resist the urge to make facebook my main means of communication. That is a trend that truly annoys me. I've had friends seem offended that I didn't know what was going on in their lives because I didn't see some facebook update that scrolled by while I wasn't glued to the site. These are things that friends should share over, you know, dinner or something! Or at least a phone call.
For the record, I blame jessamyn for my facebook involvement. I had set up an account long ago, but never used it. My first friend request was from jessamyn, so that's when I looked into it.
posted by The Deej at 6:11 AM on February 17, 2010 [2 favorites]
Facebook is sort of where cell phones were a decade or two ago, and answering machines were in the 80's: it used to be optional, but you're starting to be a bit weird if you don't have it. At least, in my circle.
Facebook is a superb tool for keeping track of your friends, especially distant ones, and for them to keep track of you. You might talk to one or two friends a day, but on FB, I hear about stuff that dozens of friends are doing. Then I can call or email them if it's important. When my dog died, friends from out of town called. When I'm in another city, I post a status update so my friends can say whether they want to get together -- without feeling on the spot about it.
Facebook has elaborate privacy filters, so you can exclude lists of friends from certain kinds of information, or even exclude a specific friend or list of friends from a specific post. So if you don't want someone to know you're in their town, they don't have to know.
And it's nice to get 61 birthday greetings.
I really don't see what the downside is. You can use Facebook to procrastinate, but is it really procrastination? Or are you spending a little more time maintaining your friendships, with time you'd probably otherwise spend on MeFi?
I work at home; I don't have a water cooler or local pub. Facebook is my local pub, where I hear about people's moods, their ups and downs, their travels, what they're upset about, and so on. I think I'll go there right now.
posted by musofire at 6:17 AM on February 17, 2010 [2 favorites]
Facebook is a superb tool for keeping track of your friends, especially distant ones, and for them to keep track of you. You might talk to one or two friends a day, but on FB, I hear about stuff that dozens of friends are doing. Then I can call or email them if it's important. When my dog died, friends from out of town called. When I'm in another city, I post a status update so my friends can say whether they want to get together -- without feeling on the spot about it.
Facebook has elaborate privacy filters, so you can exclude lists of friends from certain kinds of information, or even exclude a specific friend or list of friends from a specific post. So if you don't want someone to know you're in their town, they don't have to know.
And it's nice to get 61 birthday greetings.
I really don't see what the downside is. You can use Facebook to procrastinate, but is it really procrastination? Or are you spending a little more time maintaining your friendships, with time you'd probably otherwise spend on MeFi?
I work at home; I don't have a water cooler or local pub. Facebook is my local pub, where I hear about people's moods, their ups and downs, their travels, what they're upset about, and so on. I think I'll go there right now.
posted by musofire at 6:17 AM on February 17, 2010 [2 favorites]
I won't join because of the privacy issues. It's not about the amount of data that other users can see for me, it's the daily-changing privacy policy of the company itself. The pendulum swings back and forth about how Facebook can share/sell your info to other companies. I don't understand why the company can't just say "we won't share/sell your info ever." It's not difficult, but they won't do it. Or at least they won't do it permanently...
posted by CarlRossi at 6:20 AM on February 17, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by CarlRossi at 6:20 AM on February 17, 2010 [3 favorites]
Join it.
If you get bored with it, then you won't look at it. No big deal.
I log in to Facebook maybe twice a month. I just don't find it all that interesting, but interesting enough to check twice a month.
posted by massysett at 6:27 AM on February 17, 2010
If you get bored with it, then you won't look at it. No big deal.
I log in to Facebook maybe twice a month. I just don't find it all that interesting, but interesting enough to check twice a month.
posted by massysett at 6:27 AM on February 17, 2010
You can. It is a nice way to keep in touch. Also you can set your privacy settings to almost anything. I don't even use my real name for it. Plus you find that you like it. It can be addicting.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 6:35 AM on February 17, 2010
posted by Mastercheddaar at 6:35 AM on February 17, 2010
If you're ok with Facebook deciding you and your spouse don't exist, despite using your real name and having tons of real life connections on it and then they reverse that decision, but you never really know what happened or why, sure!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:39 AM on February 17, 2010
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:39 AM on February 17, 2010
No, you should not join facebook.
Why? Because even with people you like and care about, it enables passive invasion of privacy. Because it makes you into an invader of other's privacy. Because it creates additional unnecessary drama (oh, that sketchy dude from work wants to be your facebook friend? or your abusive ex? or the girl that fucked your boyfriend?). Because it's irrevocably tied to your real identity, forever. Because people are using it like email, which puts too much power in the hands of this one corporation. Because facebook, as a corporation, is wholly untrustworthy. Because they can change their privacy policy on a whim. Because they will never ever delete any information about you from their databases (even when it's not visible to the internet viewing public). Because their business plan depends upon them mining and selling personal information about you, including who you know, where you live, how much money you make, where you shop, where you went to school. Because even if you don't provide this exact information yourself, your friends will, thus divulging further information about you. Because they want you to draw a little box around your face in every photo (biggest facial recognition database? who might want that?)
Because the coming technofascist apocolypse will rely heavily on facebook as a datasource (I'm only half joking).
posted by beerbajay at 6:42 AM on February 17, 2010 [11 favorites]
Why? Because even with people you like and care about, it enables passive invasion of privacy. Because it makes you into an invader of other's privacy. Because it creates additional unnecessary drama (oh, that sketchy dude from work wants to be your facebook friend? or your abusive ex? or the girl that fucked your boyfriend?). Because it's irrevocably tied to your real identity, forever. Because people are using it like email, which puts too much power in the hands of this one corporation. Because facebook, as a corporation, is wholly untrustworthy. Because they can change their privacy policy on a whim. Because they will never ever delete any information about you from their databases (even when it's not visible to the internet viewing public). Because their business plan depends upon them mining and selling personal information about you, including who you know, where you live, how much money you make, where you shop, where you went to school. Because even if you don't provide this exact information yourself, your friends will, thus divulging further information about you. Because they want you to draw a little box around your face in every photo (biggest facial recognition database? who might want that?)
Because the coming technofascist apocolypse will rely heavily on facebook as a datasource (I'm only half joking).
posted by beerbajay at 6:42 AM on February 17, 2010 [11 favorites]
"Facebook is sort of where cell phones were a decade or two ago, and answering machines were in the 80's: it used to be optional, but you're starting to be a bit weird if you don't have it." Seconded.
I joined when I realized how much effort I was putting into explaining to friends, family and grad school colleagues why I wasn't on. Facebook is ubiquitous enough that you need a good reason to opt out, rather than a good reason to opt in.
posted by brozek at 6:42 AM on February 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
I joined when I realized how much effort I was putting into explaining to friends, family and grad school colleagues why I wasn't on. Facebook is ubiquitous enough that you need a good reason to opt out, rather than a good reason to opt in.
posted by brozek at 6:42 AM on February 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
All these social sites can be used in a number of different ways, so the reason one person gives for staying away from it can usually be avoided depending on what sort of information you provide. It's best to check it out and figure out for yourself how you want to use it and how you can make it work, or not.
At the very least, it's nice to have your name up there and your old school and work info, if you feel like getting in touch with people from your past. People will find you. This is a mixed blessing, a lot of times you'll swap a "how's it going?" email or two and that'll be it.
I like it because I'm horrible at keeping in touch with people and I've let a lot of friendships fade away. Facebook gives me a constant connection to a lot of people. I hide all the silly games and apps.
One thing that I don't like about it is it gives me insight into friends and friends of friends that I may not feel comfortable knowing. When I see a good friend has joined "Can this potato get more fans than President Obama" groups or "Require drug testing for welfare" I get a little squeamish. You'll also be amazed at how many people lack 3rd grade grammar skills.
As others have said, pay attention to your privacy settings and know how they work. You might have your photos locked down from your co-workers and then a friend will "tag" you in a photo that all your coworkers can not only see, but will be notified about in their news feeds. This can be easily controlled but just make sure it is before you move forward, if that's important to you.
And by joining you're not committing to anything. If you don't like it you can remove everything and your Facebook page will be nothing but "Sutekh was here."
posted by bondcliff at 6:46 AM on February 17, 2010
At the very least, it's nice to have your name up there and your old school and work info, if you feel like getting in touch with people from your past. People will find you. This is a mixed blessing, a lot of times you'll swap a "how's it going?" email or two and that'll be it.
I like it because I'm horrible at keeping in touch with people and I've let a lot of friendships fade away. Facebook gives me a constant connection to a lot of people. I hide all the silly games and apps.
One thing that I don't like about it is it gives me insight into friends and friends of friends that I may not feel comfortable knowing. When I see a good friend has joined "Can this potato get more fans than President Obama" groups or "Require drug testing for welfare" I get a little squeamish. You'll also be amazed at how many people lack 3rd grade grammar skills.
As others have said, pay attention to your privacy settings and know how they work. You might have your photos locked down from your co-workers and then a friend will "tag" you in a photo that all your coworkers can not only see, but will be notified about in their news feeds. This can be easily controlled but just make sure it is before you move forward, if that's important to you.
And by joining you're not committing to anything. If you don't like it you can remove everything and your Facebook page will be nothing but "Sutekh was here."
posted by bondcliff at 6:46 AM on February 17, 2010
From a technological progress POV, I object to Facebook as being the internet reimplemented on private servers. It's a 21st century AOL.
From a rights POV, the EFF.
Facebook is sort of where cell phones were a decade or two ago, and answering machines were in the 80's: it used to be optional, but you're starting to be a bit weird if you don't have it.
(Cellphones were semi-optional in 1990??) Ironically, I agree with part of this: Facebook, like answering machines, are a fad that will be commoditized (not exactly the word I want) by something better in the future. Wait until it's done right before joining.
If you don't like it you can remove everything and your Facebook page will be nothing but "Sutekh was here."
That's all the page might say now, but since all your data is still on the Facebook servers that's not much of a comfort.
posted by DU at 6:59 AM on February 17, 2010 [2 favorites]
From a rights POV, the EFF.
Facebook is sort of where cell phones were a decade or two ago, and answering machines were in the 80's: it used to be optional, but you're starting to be a bit weird if you don't have it.
(Cellphones were semi-optional in 1990??) Ironically, I agree with part of this: Facebook, like answering machines, are a fad that will be commoditized (not exactly the word I want) by something better in the future. Wait until it's done right before joining.
If you don't like it you can remove everything and your Facebook page will be nothing but "Sutekh was here."
That's all the page might say now, but since all your data is still on the Facebook servers that's not much of a comfort.
posted by DU at 6:59 AM on February 17, 2010 [2 favorites]
Because people are using it like email, which puts too much power in the hands of this one corporation.
Unlike Gmail?
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:01 AM on February 17, 2010
Unlike Gmail?
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:01 AM on February 17, 2010
A side note: CarlRossi is grossly exaggerating, the privacy policy is not "daily-changing".
In fact, I think it has changed twice in the 3+ years I've been registered on it. In addition they go to great lengths to tell you what the change is, when it will happen and why they are doing it.
(unlike some companies)
posted by mr_silver at 7:16 AM on February 17, 2010
In fact, I think it has changed twice in the 3+ years I've been registered on it. In addition they go to great lengths to tell you what the change is, when it will happen and why they are doing it.
(unlike some companies)
posted by mr_silver at 7:16 AM on February 17, 2010
My mom questioned the utility of joining Facebook, but after finding her old elementary school classmates (including the first guy she had a crush on and her high school best friend - not the same person), she's converted to loving having a way of very casually keeping in touch with people.
YMMV, but Facebook has literally changed my own life (self-link about my long-lost dad contacting me for the first time in 10 years) for the better.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 7:31 AM on February 17, 2010 [2 favorites]
YMMV, but Facebook has literally changed my own life (self-link about my long-lost dad contacting me for the first time in 10 years) for the better.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 7:31 AM on February 17, 2010 [2 favorites]
Facebook is ubiquitous enough that you need a good reason to opt out, rather than a good reason to opt in.
This is one of the dumbest reasons to do anything. You don't need to defend your choice about how much personal information you want to put on the internet and how.
posted by Dr Dracator at 7:35 AM on February 17, 2010 [3 favorites]
This is one of the dumbest reasons to do anything. You don't need to defend your choice about how much personal information you want to put on the internet and how.
posted by Dr Dracator at 7:35 AM on February 17, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'm on Facebook because most people I know now use it instead of Evite. If I weren't on it, I'd never find out about friends' birthday parties. If your social circle is anything like mine, you may want to create a limited profile for that reason.
posted by decathecting at 7:41 AM on February 17, 2010
posted by decathecting at 7:41 AM on February 17, 2010
Because people are using it like email, which puts too much power in the hands of this one corporation.
Unlike Gmail?
Which is why I'm off Gmail too. And Google Reader. I still use the search engine, but since I'm not logged in anymore when I do it, their data harvesting is less effective.
And Facebook doesn't even have a fairly clean history (or motto) of non-evilness.
posted by DU at 7:47 AM on February 17, 2010
Unlike Gmail?
Which is why I'm off Gmail too. And Google Reader. I still use the search engine, but since I'm not logged in anymore when I do it, their data harvesting is less effective.
And Facebook doesn't even have a fairly clean history (or motto) of non-evilness.
posted by DU at 7:47 AM on February 17, 2010
Which is why I'm off Gmail too.
I brought up Gmail as an example of a "corporation" owning your email. What personal email do you use that's not owned by a "corporation"?
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:56 AM on February 17, 2010
I brought up Gmail as an example of a "corporation" owning your email. What personal email do you use that's not owned by a "corporation"?
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:56 AM on February 17, 2010
Facebook has been a great way to get in touch with people I've worked with overseas.
Because of my occupation, I also have a very large network of professional contacts, and Facebook can be a way to interact with these folks and manage relationships.
However, I manage my profile quite a bit - professional contacts are added to "limited profile", and I include almost no personal information. \
My FB name includes my middle initial tacked on to my first name; this means that my FB profile does not show up in Google search results for my real name.
I'm really concerned about identity theft, so none of my personal information - my birthdate, phone number, address - is listed, and the information I gave to FB is false.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:59 AM on February 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Because of my occupation, I also have a very large network of professional contacts, and Facebook can be a way to interact with these folks and manage relationships.
However, I manage my profile quite a bit - professional contacts are added to "limited profile", and I include almost no personal information. \
My FB name includes my middle initial tacked on to my first name; this means that my FB profile does not show up in Google search results for my real name.
I'm really concerned about identity theft, so none of my personal information - my birthdate, phone number, address - is listed, and the information I gave to FB is false.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:59 AM on February 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
(Disclaimer: I work as a 3rd-party FB developer)
Yes, go ahead and join. All the people here who say things like:
The more people who join Facebook, the greater the social pressure on everyone to become part of this private business' clientele. Their terms of service and privacy guards may be OK now, but why would the company care enough to keep them in place in the future if it seemed like "a good business decision" to share them? What if the company itself is sold, or new, more short-term-financial-gain management takes over?
and
Because it's irrevocably tied to your real identity, forever. Because people are using it like email, which puts too much power in the hands of this one corporation. Because facebook, as a corporation, is wholly untrustworthy. Because they can change their privacy policy on a whim. Because they will never ever delete any information about you from their databases (even when it's not visible to the internet viewing public). Because their business plan depends upon them mining and selling personal information about you, including who you know, where you live, how much money you make, where you shop, where you went to school.[the last sentence of this, btw, is completely pulled from beerbajay's ass]
probably never every use Google, right guys? Because you can say exactly the same things about them.
Facebook is a tremendously useful tool for building out your social graph. Once you do that, you can just let it be a passive stream of data to you. Spend a little time with privacy settings, filter out what you don't want (both of which are very easy to do), and enjoy the photos.
posted by mkultra at 7:59 AM on February 17, 2010
Yes, go ahead and join. All the people here who say things like:
The more people who join Facebook, the greater the social pressure on everyone to become part of this private business' clientele. Their terms of service and privacy guards may be OK now, but why would the company care enough to keep them in place in the future if it seemed like "a good business decision" to share them? What if the company itself is sold, or new, more short-term-financial-gain management takes over?
and
Because it's irrevocably tied to your real identity, forever. Because people are using it like email, which puts too much power in the hands of this one corporation. Because facebook, as a corporation, is wholly untrustworthy. Because they can change their privacy policy on a whim. Because they will never ever delete any information about you from their databases (even when it's not visible to the internet viewing public). Because their business plan depends upon them mining and selling personal information about you, including who you know, where you live, how much money you make, where you shop, where you went to school.[the last sentence of this, btw, is completely pulled from beerbajay's ass]
probably never every use Google, right guys? Because you can say exactly the same things about them.
Facebook is a tremendously useful tool for building out your social graph. Once you do that, you can just let it be a passive stream of data to you. Spend a little time with privacy settings, filter out what you don't want (both of which are very easy to do), and enjoy the photos.
posted by mkultra at 7:59 AM on February 17, 2010
What personal email do you use that's not owned by a "corporation"?
Well, I run my own server and host email for others. In any case there's competition, replaceability, and interoperability with email that there's not with facebook.
posted by beerbajay at 8:01 AM on February 17, 2010
Well, I run my own server and host email for others. In any case there's competition, replaceability, and interoperability with email that there's not with facebook.
posted by beerbajay at 8:01 AM on February 17, 2010
probably never every use Google, right guys? Because you can say exactly the same things about them.
How incredibly disingenuous. When I go to www.google.com, I don't have to click a license agreement or enter into a business contract. I don't have to give out any data and there is a case to be made that I have an expectation of privacy. When I find an app via Google, I don't have to worry that that app is accessing everything Google knows about me (which is nothing anyway) and sharing it with all the other apps I ever use. None of these is true of Facebook.
What personal email do you use that's not owned by a "corporation"?
Define "owned by", because there are degrees. I have a hosting company. When I want to move, all I have to do is change a DNS record. Whereas extracting yourself from a Google account is a lot harder.
posted by DU at 8:09 AM on February 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
How incredibly disingenuous. When I go to www.google.com, I don't have to click a license agreement or enter into a business contract. I don't have to give out any data and there is a case to be made that I have an expectation of privacy. When I find an app via Google, I don't have to worry that that app is accessing everything Google knows about me (which is nothing anyway) and sharing it with all the other apps I ever use. None of these is true of Facebook.
What personal email do you use that's not owned by a "corporation"?
Define "owned by", because there are degrees. I have a hosting company. When I want to move, all I have to do is change a DNS record. Whereas extracting yourself from a Google account is a lot harder.
posted by DU at 8:09 AM on February 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Enables passive invasion of privacy? What the hell?
The people I have on my facebook friends list are people I know and like. I would not mind showing them pictures of my last holiday, or having them message me, or having them pull my email address of it and emailing me (not likely), or letting them write a post on my Wall, or letting them see where I went to school. If I did mind, all of those features can be turned off.
Am I trusting Facebook not to misuse this information - sure. I'm also, as has been pointed out, trusting GMail not to misuse my information, and for that matter I'm trusting Metafilter not to misuse my information (IP address, occupation, etc). Not all of us have the money or inclination to run our own email servers.
Join Facebook. It's neat and it has cool games. Turn down friend requests from people you don't like, even if they keep asking you about it and/or trying to friend you every month. Turn on whatever privacy settings you feel like and feed false data for what you don't want to share. Voila.
posted by Xany at 8:35 AM on February 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
The people I have on my facebook friends list are people I know and like. I would not mind showing them pictures of my last holiday, or having them message me, or having them pull my email address of it and emailing me (not likely), or letting them write a post on my Wall, or letting them see where I went to school. If I did mind, all of those features can be turned off.
Am I trusting Facebook not to misuse this information - sure. I'm also, as has been pointed out, trusting GMail not to misuse my information, and for that matter I'm trusting Metafilter not to misuse my information (IP address, occupation, etc). Not all of us have the money or inclination to run our own email servers.
Join Facebook. It's neat and it has cool games. Turn down friend requests from people you don't like, even if they keep asking you about it and/or trying to friend you every month. Turn on whatever privacy settings you feel like and feed false data for what you don't want to share. Voila.
posted by Xany at 8:35 AM on February 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
DU: How incredibly disingenuous. When I go to www.google.com, I don't have to click a license agreement or enter into a business contract. I don't have to give out any data and there is a case to be made that I have an expectation of privacy.
You seriously underestimate Google. They're tracking every search term you enter, every click you make from search results. That data is coupled with any data gleaned from Gmail, if you use it. Then there are the Google Analytics cookies that are on a vast majority of sites these days. All of these are feeding into a central profile Google is quietly building on you. Their approach is that the behavioral data is much more valuable than any profile data you enter- you can lie about your profile, but not about your browsing habits.
DU: When I find an app via Google, I don't have to worry that that app is accessing everything Google knows about me (which is nothing anyway) and sharing it with all the other apps I ever use.
When you reach that point on Facebook, it throws up a giant modal dialog asking you if it's OK, and apps are not allowed to share data with each other. If there's any shady business going on, it's being done by a malicious 3rd party app, not Facebook.
Don't take my word for it. Rather than pulling stuff out of your ass, just read the source material.
posted by mkultra at 8:36 AM on February 17, 2010
You seriously underestimate Google. They're tracking every search term you enter, every click you make from search results. That data is coupled with any data gleaned from Gmail, if you use it. Then there are the Google Analytics cookies that are on a vast majority of sites these days. All of these are feeding into a central profile Google is quietly building on you. Their approach is that the behavioral data is much more valuable than any profile data you enter- you can lie about your profile, but not about your browsing habits.
DU: When I find an app via Google, I don't have to worry that that app is accessing everything Google knows about me (which is nothing anyway) and sharing it with all the other apps I ever use.
When you reach that point on Facebook, it throws up a giant modal dialog asking you if it's OK, and apps are not allowed to share data with each other. If there's any shady business going on, it's being done by a malicious 3rd party app, not Facebook.
Don't take my word for it. Rather than pulling stuff out of your ass, just read the source material.
posted by mkultra at 8:36 AM on February 17, 2010
For what it is worth, I use LinkedIn for business contacts.
Facebook is great for catching up with friends, sharing pictures, jokes, stories and organising events. In other words, the personal stuff.
LinkedIn is great for keeping in contact with people who change jobs, finding new jobs, finding a way into a company to get what you need, finding people etc. In other words, the business stuff.
I don't add business contacts to Facebook and I don't add personal contacts to LinkedIn.
posted by mr_silver at 8:54 AM on February 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Facebook is great for catching up with friends, sharing pictures, jokes, stories and organising events. In other words, the personal stuff.
LinkedIn is great for keeping in contact with people who change jobs, finding new jobs, finding a way into a company to get what you need, finding people etc. In other words, the business stuff.
I don't add business contacts to Facebook and I don't add personal contacts to LinkedIn.
posted by mr_silver at 8:54 AM on February 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Have they fired Ted Ullyot yet? No? Oh well, I guess I'll just have to survive on the boring old open to everyone regular internet for a little longer...
posted by ecurtz at 9:04 AM on February 17, 2010
posted by ecurtz at 9:04 AM on February 17, 2010
I waited a few years and was the last of my social circle to join. In the end it was the fact that people were shutting down their personal blogs and using facebook to share links that caught up with me.
I have a basic profile and have caught up with some old friends, but other than that I seldom use it other than occasionally checking out what my friends have been posting.
In short, it's one more account to keep track of but otherwise innocuous.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:06 AM on February 17, 2010
I have a basic profile and have caught up with some old friends, but other than that I seldom use it other than occasionally checking out what my friends have been posting.
In short, it's one more account to keep track of but otherwise innocuous.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:06 AM on February 17, 2010
Despite being aimed mostly at Google, this post has some open alternatives to Facebook, Twitter and others. (I'm not affiliated with any of them or with that blog.)
posted by DU at 9:32 AM on February 17, 2010
posted by DU at 9:32 AM on February 17, 2010
I'm on it. At first it was kind of interesting but now it feels like waste of time. Luckily it's easy to ignore. It won't hurt you to try it.
posted by chairface at 10:28 AM on February 17, 2010
posted by chairface at 10:28 AM on February 17, 2010
I love seeing what my kids, their friends, and other family members are up to. It's a very easy way to keep loosely in touch, and I've enjoyed friending some folks from my home town. I don't trust the privacy at all. I like to join groups, like Socialist Medicine is Great and Big Bidness is Usually Evil, and I wonder if some potential employer will ever see this and I will not get hired. I'm very wary of posting any pictures, because I'm kind of paranoid about privacy. I wish I'd used a looser variant of my real name.
posted by theora55 at 10:31 AM on February 17, 2010
posted by theora55 at 10:31 AM on February 17, 2010
Yes, you should join. I would consider it really strange to meet someone that didn't have it, and I'm 23. I had friends that actually didn't get invited out because the events were organized on facebook and they didn't know about them.
People not on facebook also seem to have this "you're an idiot for being on facebook" attitude which instantly makes me not like them.
So, I guess if you want to make and keep friends, join facebook!
posted by piper4 at 11:07 AM on February 17, 2010
People not on facebook also seem to have this "you're an idiot for being on facebook" attitude which instantly makes me not like them.
So, I guess if you want to make and keep friends, join facebook!
posted by piper4 at 11:07 AM on February 17, 2010
Not on FaceBook, block Google Analytics using Privoxy, access Gmail through mail client. It's not that I believe FB/Google will actively do something nefarious with my information, I'm just uneasy about the gradual erosion of the notion of privacy and the idea that people are comfortable giving up control/data about themselves in return for so little. That information is incredibly valuable to FB/Google and people practically give it away for free.
Perhaps this makes me one of the people piper4 doesn't like...I guess I just prefer to stay in contact with my friends via email and the phone, and keep as much personal information out of the eternal databases as possible.
posted by Fin Azvandi at 11:26 AM on February 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Perhaps this makes me one of the people piper4 doesn't like...I guess I just prefer to stay in contact with my friends via email and the phone, and keep as much personal information out of the eternal databases as possible.
posted by Fin Azvandi at 11:26 AM on February 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Do it for the friends and not for the professional contacts, unless you're in an industry that has looser standards of professionalism. I have my etsy.shop listed as a page on facebook, and I suppose I think that it'll help get the word out and thus help sales; but crafting and cute things is a different business then Analytics and Markets, Inc or something similarly business minded.
I like getting having the strands of connectedness to kids I used to babysit, and people I went to school with. I don't feel like I've burned bridges, I see their updates and photos, and it's interesting to me. And a lot of my everyday friends are on facebook, and the friends who've moved away are on there to, so that info is valuable to me as well.
posted by redsparkler at 11:28 AM on February 17, 2010
I like getting having the strands of connectedness to kids I used to babysit, and people I went to school with. I don't feel like I've burned bridges, I see their updates and photos, and it's interesting to me. And a lot of my everyday friends are on facebook, and the friends who've moved away are on there to, so that info is valuable to me as well.
posted by redsparkler at 11:28 AM on February 17, 2010
It depends on the sort of person you are, and how you communicate with people already.
If you have just one group of friends, and/or you don't mind your semi-professional contacts overlapping with your personal ones (your mom will find your coworkers, for example), then FaceBook is just fine.
If you prefer to fight a (perhaps quixotic) battle against your various personal worlds all colliding and overlapping, Facebook is not for you.
posted by rokusan at 12:30 PM on February 17, 2010
If you have just one group of friends, and/or you don't mind your semi-professional contacts overlapping with your personal ones (your mom will find your coworkers, for example), then FaceBook is just fine.
If you prefer to fight a (perhaps quixotic) battle against your various personal worlds all colliding and overlapping, Facebook is not for you.
posted by rokusan at 12:30 PM on February 17, 2010
(Another way to say that: if your life is young and simple, you should join willy-nilly. If your life is old and complicated, you probably want to think it through first.)
posted by rokusan at 12:31 PM on February 17, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by rokusan at 12:31 PM on February 17, 2010 [2 favorites]
I have a facebook account, but not under my real name. Plenty of people seem to handle it that way, and that should provide a first line of defence.
posted by themel at 1:24 PM on February 17, 2010
posted by themel at 1:24 PM on February 17, 2010
Seconding mr_silver's recommendation of LinkedIn for professional contacts. And I say that as a huge fan of FB for keeping in touch with family & friends.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 7:10 PM on February 17, 2010
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 7:10 PM on February 17, 2010
I think Facebook, like cell phones, is rapidly becoming mandatory whether you like it or not. And I don't. I am on it because I work at a school and thus I know a ton of students at it, but I NEVER update, never read anyone else's updates, only log in once or twice a quarter to friend people and then log out. I am so bored of the poking and the games I don't play and am not interested in anyone's one-sentence updating. (Man, I miss blogs. People actually had to write paragraphs, remember those?)
The problem is that this is fairly rapidly becoming something I will socially not be allowed to keep on ignoring. Plenty of places ONLY post information on Facebook any more and you have to be logged in to see it, and people nag me constantly to be active on Facebook, get offended that I took two months to friend them back, etc. I dread the day where I will have to check it fifteen times a day like everyone else, but that day is coming soon. (Really, it's there NOW, I'm just still totally resistant.) And age is no longer a factor in being able to socially get out of constantly being on Facebook. 50-year-olds are constantly on Facebook updating now.
So...you're going to have to suck it up and join just like everyone else. Sorry.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:55 PM on February 17, 2010
The problem is that this is fairly rapidly becoming something I will socially not be allowed to keep on ignoring. Plenty of places ONLY post information on Facebook any more and you have to be logged in to see it, and people nag me constantly to be active on Facebook, get offended that I took two months to friend them back, etc. I dread the day where I will have to check it fifteen times a day like everyone else, but that day is coming soon. (Really, it's there NOW, I'm just still totally resistant.) And age is no longer a factor in being able to socially get out of constantly being on Facebook. 50-year-olds are constantly on Facebook updating now.
So...you're going to have to suck it up and join just like everyone else. Sorry.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:55 PM on February 17, 2010
I have a facebook account, but not under my real name.
I believe this is against the Facebook TOS, but maybe I'm confused.
posted by rokusan at 12:18 AM on February 18, 2010
I believe this is against the Facebook TOS, but maybe I'm confused.
posted by rokusan at 12:18 AM on February 18, 2010
Yes, it is, but so far people are doing it anyway. Some folks have had their accounts deleted when they were found out, but not everyone has been found out. So keep that in mind.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:16 PM on February 18, 2010
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:16 PM on February 18, 2010
Yeah, it is, but don't use an obviously fake name and they likely won't notice. E.g., "Nate Carson," not "Anakin Skywalker."
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:09 PM on February 18, 2010
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:09 PM on February 18, 2010
Right. So to confirm, for significant privacy on Facebook, you have to break their terms of service?
This is why many technology/privacy people are not big fans of Facebook. It's not necessarily a luddite issue, OP.
posted by rokusan at 12:42 AM on February 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is why many technology/privacy people are not big fans of Facebook. It's not necessarily a luddite issue, OP.
posted by rokusan at 12:42 AM on February 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
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