Car inspection dispute
December 18, 2009 11:11 AM
Car Inspection PA:
I recently have been told by mechanic that because my driver's side window is nonoperational ( the window is permanently up, it has a blown motor) it will not pass inspection.
I just can't believe that because of a window, I wouldn't pass inspection. Is this a valid claim?
I have a 1999 mercury cougar.
I don't know about the PA law, but I think it's valid. It's not just a window; it's the driver's window. I blew a fuse the other day, knocking out my signals. The same fuse made the driver's window inoperable. I couldn't signal turns, even by hand. I thought Mercedes would have thought of this, even in 1984.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 11:22 AM on December 18, 2009
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 11:22 AM on December 18, 2009
Total left-field guess - if the cops pull you over, you can't open your window, and it's too dangerous (to you and to them) to open the door??
posted by tristeza at 11:23 AM on December 18, 2009
posted by tristeza at 11:23 AM on December 18, 2009
I've never been to PA, but here is the word from the state:
posted by Ufez Jones at 11:27 AM on December 18, 2009
Safety inspections for passenger cars and light-duty trucks require that the following items be checked: suspension components, steering, braking systems, tires and wheels, lighting and electrical systems, glazing (glass), mirrors, windshield washer, defroster, wipers, fuel systems, the speedometer, the odometer, the exhaust systems, horns and warning devices, the body, and chassis. For most vehicles in the 42 county, Non-I/M region this safety inspection will also include a Visual Anti-Tampering Check. The Visual Anti-Tampering Check is an examination of the vehicle to see if the required emissions components have been tampered with or removed. For more information concerning the 42 County Visual Anti-Tampering Check please reference Section 175.80 of Subchapter E, of the Vehicle Equipment and Inspection Regulations. For a complete list of the rejection criteria for passenger cars and light duty trucks, please visit Subchapter E of the Vehicle Equipment and Inspection Regulations.I'm honestly not sure what "glazing (glass)" exactly means. Maybe someone else here can chime in on that.
posted by Ufez Jones at 11:27 AM on December 18, 2009
I bet if other windows don't work you'll pass. So put the motor from another window in the driver's door.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 11:28 AM on December 18, 2009
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 11:28 AM on December 18, 2009
Here is the official Pennsylvania state inspection checklist.
I don't see a requirement that windows have to open anywhere. Sounds to me like your mechanic has found a way of making a few extra bucks.
IAAL, but IANA(PA)L, and IANYL. More to the point, IANAMechanic. Not by a damn sight.
posted by valkyryn at 11:30 AM on December 18, 2009
I don't see a requirement that windows have to open anywhere. Sounds to me like your mechanic has found a way of making a few extra bucks.
IAAL, but IANA(PA)L, and IANYL. More to the point, IANAMechanic. Not by a damn sight.
posted by valkyryn at 11:30 AM on December 18, 2009
In most states, the "glazing (glass)" requirement is that there are no cracks or chips in the driver's line of sight.
posted by chrisamiller at 11:37 AM on December 18, 2009
posted by chrisamiller at 11:37 AM on December 18, 2009
Every jurisdiction I've ever been in requires an operable drivers window. It's for cops, tolls and customs to be able to receive documents without you opening your door. Note that it's not about safety as some cars only have a tiny little sliding pane that you can stick your arm through and not much else.
However most places don't actually require a door glass, only the windshield is mandated. If you can't afford to fix it get the window down and then tape over the opening.
Ufez Jones writes "I'm honestly not sure what 'glazing (glass)' exactly means. Maybe someone else here can chime in on that."
They'll be checking to make sure the windshield isn't dangerously cracked and that the front side windows aren't hazed (or possibly tinted) past allowed limits.
posted by Mitheral at 11:40 AM on December 18, 2009
However most places don't actually require a door glass, only the windshield is mandated. If you can't afford to fix it get the window down and then tape over the opening.
Ufez Jones writes "I'm honestly not sure what 'glazing (glass)' exactly means. Maybe someone else here can chime in on that."
They'll be checking to make sure the windshield isn't dangerously cracked and that the front side windows aren't hazed (or possibly tinted) past allowed limits.
posted by Mitheral at 11:40 AM on December 18, 2009
I passed NY inspections for several years with a driver's window just like that. The passenger window rolled down halfway, and the rear windows were fully operation. My mechanics were, as far as I could tell, strict about what it took me to pass, and the window was never an issue.
posted by knile at 11:50 AM on December 18, 2009
posted by knile at 11:50 AM on December 18, 2009
I'm not from Pa. but I have had a car fail inspection for a purely cosmetic crack in the steering wheel before.
Different states have very different inspection regimens, so it's entirely possible Pa. will fail you for this. In my experience, the high bar is in states that inspect the car once when you buy it rather than every year.
My parents gave me an old car of theirs back when I was a poor student. It hadn't been tagged and on the road for like five years, so they helpfully had it inspected in Virginia the day before I picked it up. Virginia inspects annually. Car passed with flying colors. Since I lived in Maryland at the time, however, this meant nothing. One day and two hundred miles later I had it inspected in Maryland, which only inspects the car when you originally register it. They came up with $800 worth of stuff that had to be done to make it roadworthy. (This was well more than the car was worth so I drove it for 30 days on a red sticker while I scraped up a down payment on a new car.)
posted by Naberius at 12:05 PM on December 18, 2009
Different states have very different inspection regimens, so it's entirely possible Pa. will fail you for this. In my experience, the high bar is in states that inspect the car once when you buy it rather than every year.
My parents gave me an old car of theirs back when I was a poor student. It hadn't been tagged and on the road for like five years, so they helpfully had it inspected in Virginia the day before I picked it up. Virginia inspects annually. Car passed with flying colors. Since I lived in Maryland at the time, however, this meant nothing. One day and two hundred miles later I had it inspected in Maryland, which only inspects the car when you originally register it. They came up with $800 worth of stuff that had to be done to make it roadworthy. (This was well more than the car was worth so I drove it for 30 days on a red sticker while I scraped up a down payment on a new car.)
posted by Naberius at 12:05 PM on December 18, 2009
I wouldn't swap motors. If you're going to go to the trouble of replacing a motor, either get a new one or one from a junkyard.
posted by digsrus at 12:17 PM on December 18, 2009
posted by digsrus at 12:17 PM on December 18, 2009
I am from PA, which seems relatively rare in this thread. I just called my local garage, because I was curious. It is required that the window be operable. Your profile doesn't say where you are from. If you are from a city like Philly or Pittsburgh, or even one of dozens of smaller cities, you could shop around for a place that works on cabs. A sketchier garage is likely to put a sticker on pretty much anything. When my wife was a chef in the poorly paid food service industry, before we met, she really couldn't afford to get her cracked windshield replaced. One of her dishwashers hopped in the car, took it to North Philly and came back with the sticker. Or get a junkyard motor.
posted by fixedgear at 12:38 PM on December 18, 2009
posted by fixedgear at 12:38 PM on December 18, 2009
Buying a second hand window regulator from a wreckers should be cheap, and they're pretty easy to install.
posted by onya at 1:26 PM on December 18, 2009
posted by onya at 1:26 PM on December 18, 2009
I'm a mechanic with a valid PA State Inspection License.
My official inspection manual is currently buried somewhere in my toolbox, but going by valkyryn's link and my memory, there's no specific statute that refers directly to windows being operable.
That being said, our die-hard rule of thumb regarding that sort of thing is that if the car came with it, it has to work. As a mechanic, my official position is, "Better safe than sorry." Especially when it comes to Inspection.
In my opinion, despite the lack of clarity in the statute, you need to be able to roll down that window to talk to a cop or trooper, pay a toll, or otherwise interact with the outside world without opening your door. You also need to be able to roll down the window in the event of an emergency. Not everyone has the strength or the tools to break a car window if they need to escape or to vent the cabin.
I'm a pretty legit and non-sleazy mechanic and I don't flunk cars for technicalities. I don't sell repairs at an inspection unless the car is legitimately unsafe. I'm not adjusting headlight alignment or adjusting drum brakes, nickel and dime-ing my customers. However, I'd probably flunk your car for this. I'd be worried that you'd get pulled over, not be able to open your window, and a State Trooper would come by my shop asking about how my stickers wound up on a car that fails Inspection. Ultimately, if anything happens to that car, the inspection stickers can get traced right back to the issuing inspection station. If I put a sticker on your car and the wheel falls off a hundred yards down the road, I'm on the hook for all of the damage. Certifying a car as "Safe For the Road" is not something I take lightly, as I'm sure you can understand.
Everyone that I've ever worked with has shared this position, including the instructor for the State Inspection certification course that I attended years ago.
posted by Jon-o at 8:17 PM on December 18, 2009
My official inspection manual is currently buried somewhere in my toolbox, but going by valkyryn's link and my memory, there's no specific statute that refers directly to windows being operable.
That being said, our die-hard rule of thumb regarding that sort of thing is that if the car came with it, it has to work. As a mechanic, my official position is, "Better safe than sorry." Especially when it comes to Inspection.
In my opinion, despite the lack of clarity in the statute, you need to be able to roll down that window to talk to a cop or trooper, pay a toll, or otherwise interact with the outside world without opening your door. You also need to be able to roll down the window in the event of an emergency. Not everyone has the strength or the tools to break a car window if they need to escape or to vent the cabin.
I'm a pretty legit and non-sleazy mechanic and I don't flunk cars for technicalities. I don't sell repairs at an inspection unless the car is legitimately unsafe. I'm not adjusting headlight alignment or adjusting drum brakes, nickel and dime-ing my customers. However, I'd probably flunk your car for this. I'd be worried that you'd get pulled over, not be able to open your window, and a State Trooper would come by my shop asking about how my stickers wound up on a car that fails Inspection. Ultimately, if anything happens to that car, the inspection stickers can get traced right back to the issuing inspection station. If I put a sticker on your car and the wheel falls off a hundred yards down the road, I'm on the hook for all of the damage. Certifying a car as "Safe For the Road" is not something I take lightly, as I'm sure you can understand.
Everyone that I've ever worked with has shared this position, including the instructor for the State Inspection certification course that I attended years ago.
posted by Jon-o at 8:17 PM on December 18, 2009
I've had cars inspected in 4 states. Pennsylvania inspections were by far the most rigorous. Since Pennsylvania was the first place I owned a car, that's my baseline. I'm always shocked at how lackadaisical inspections are in other states.
I can't imagine that window getting passed at any legit garage in PA.
posted by 26.2 at 10:39 PM on December 18, 2009
I can't imagine that window getting passed at any legit garage in PA.
posted by 26.2 at 10:39 PM on December 18, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Pantengliopoli at 11:17 AM on December 18, 2009