Can a non-spouse file a legal complaint about adultery?
December 17, 2009 8:05 PM
Can a non-spouse file a legal complaint about adultery?
I was recently romantically and sexually involved with someone who was married. He lied about this fact, and about a lot of things, and caused me a lot of emotional harm and loss of trust in men when I found out. I'd known him for a year and a half, although we didn't become intimate until a month ago, and he did a con job worthy of the greatest actors.
When he suddenly disappeared several weeks after we were together, I tracked down his real name and real location (both of which he'd lied about). I found the wife's web site and emailed her. She was initially interested in filing for divorce, and attempting to get a fault divorce by proving adultery. She told me that he had been "emotionally unfaithful" (her wording) before but that this was the first time she was aware of that he had been physically unfaithful. I could hardly believe the past behavior she detailed. He'd bought a plane ticket for a woman he'd met online to meet him at a conference. He got various women in love with him, even set up plans for them to move to be with him, before abruptly disappearing. Frankly I felt angry that she'd let him get away with this behaviour and that he'd therefore escalated with me.
I have spent a lot of time and effort telling her, at her request and in detail, my experiences with him, and suggesting ways she can back up what I am saying with other witnesses. Recently though she has done an about-face. She is poking holes in her own potential case and refusing to explore ideas, I think because she fears being on her own (they have been married 14 years and she is 16 years older than him). She seems obsessed with the idea that she only wants to divorce him if she can prove fault, and seems to believe proving fault is unlikely (even though she shoots down the ideas I have for doing so rather than actually exploring them). She's still apparently going to see a lawyer tomorrow (this is the second time, she didn't go the first time it was scheduled).
My question is: if she chickens out on filing for divorce, can *I* file any sort of legal claim because of what he did to me? He lied to me grievously, he betrayed my trust, he made me think we had a future when we didn't. I even stayed in this geographical area rather than moving to the West coast as I'd planned.
So is the only one who can complain about adultery the cheated-on spouse? The state they live in is Virginia so I'll assume Virginia law applies. Everything I've found online always talks about the spouse.
I am not wealthy and I would like to know if there's anything I can go here legally before I even make the journey to consult a lawyer.
I was recently romantically and sexually involved with someone who was married. He lied about this fact, and about a lot of things, and caused me a lot of emotional harm and loss of trust in men when I found out. I'd known him for a year and a half, although we didn't become intimate until a month ago, and he did a con job worthy of the greatest actors.
When he suddenly disappeared several weeks after we were together, I tracked down his real name and real location (both of which he'd lied about). I found the wife's web site and emailed her. She was initially interested in filing for divorce, and attempting to get a fault divorce by proving adultery. She told me that he had been "emotionally unfaithful" (her wording) before but that this was the first time she was aware of that he had been physically unfaithful. I could hardly believe the past behavior she detailed. He'd bought a plane ticket for a woman he'd met online to meet him at a conference. He got various women in love with him, even set up plans for them to move to be with him, before abruptly disappearing. Frankly I felt angry that she'd let him get away with this behaviour and that he'd therefore escalated with me.
I have spent a lot of time and effort telling her, at her request and in detail, my experiences with him, and suggesting ways she can back up what I am saying with other witnesses. Recently though she has done an about-face. She is poking holes in her own potential case and refusing to explore ideas, I think because she fears being on her own (they have been married 14 years and she is 16 years older than him). She seems obsessed with the idea that she only wants to divorce him if she can prove fault, and seems to believe proving fault is unlikely (even though she shoots down the ideas I have for doing so rather than actually exploring them). She's still apparently going to see a lawyer tomorrow (this is the second time, she didn't go the first time it was scheduled).
My question is: if she chickens out on filing for divorce, can *I* file any sort of legal claim because of what he did to me? He lied to me grievously, he betrayed my trust, he made me think we had a future when we didn't. I even stayed in this geographical area rather than moving to the West coast as I'd planned.
So is the only one who can complain about adultery the cheated-on spouse? The state they live in is Virginia so I'll assume Virginia law applies. Everything I've found online always talks about the spouse.
I am not wealthy and I would like to know if there's anything I can go here legally before I even make the journey to consult a lawyer.
Uh, not a lawyer and not in Virginia, but their divorce is a civil matter between them and doesn't involve you. It appears that in VA, the fault-no fault distinction is mostly procedural, pertaining to waiting periods required. Who would you complain to? You can't make her divorce him, and the point of the divorce for either party is to get the best deal of what they want possible. If the wife doesn't want to pursue adultery claims against him to have a better hand in the divorce, then nobody else can make her.
posted by ishotjr at 8:12 PM on December 17, 2009
posted by ishotjr at 8:12 PM on December 17, 2009
No. Walk away, wiser about human relationships. Stop contacting the wife. Your part in this ugly scenario is done. It's over. And what becomes of the two of them is none of your business.
posted by BlahLaLa at 8:12 PM on December 17, 2009
posted by BlahLaLa at 8:12 PM on December 17, 2009
Actually, in many states you would be liable to the spouse for alienation of affection. Fortunately for you, the Virginia Legislature has precluded that option:
Virginia Code 8.01-220:
"Notwithstanding any other provision of law to the contrary, no civil action shall lie or be maintained in this Commonwealth for alienation of affection, breach of promise to marry, or criminal conversation upon which a cause of action arose or occurred on or after June 28, 1968."
I would just move on with your life rather than try to drum up some frivolous lawsuit. Sorry!
posted by lockestockbarrel at 8:15 PM on December 17, 2009
Virginia Code 8.01-220:
"Notwithstanding any other provision of law to the contrary, no civil action shall lie or be maintained in this Commonwealth for alienation of affection, breach of promise to marry, or criminal conversation upon which a cause of action arose or occurred on or after June 28, 1968."
I would just move on with your life rather than try to drum up some frivolous lawsuit. Sorry!
posted by lockestockbarrel at 8:15 PM on December 17, 2009
I'm sorry that you were hurt by this awful douche-bag. You were treated really poorly, and nobody deserves something like this.
That being said, this is NOT something you should pursue. In fact, you shouldn't even be touching this situation with a 20-foot pole. Extricate yourself ASAP, for your own sake. It sounds like a messy situation with a screwed-up couple, and you don't need it: you need time and space to heal. You've talked to the wife about this, and you can't do anymore: the rest is her decision.
Have you considered seeing a therapist? This sounds like a terrible violation of your trust, and I think it may be worth talking to someone about. Best of luck.
posted by HabeasCorpus at 8:19 PM on December 17, 2009
That being said, this is NOT something you should pursue. In fact, you shouldn't even be touching this situation with a 20-foot pole. Extricate yourself ASAP, for your own sake. It sounds like a messy situation with a screwed-up couple, and you don't need it: you need time and space to heal. You've talked to the wife about this, and you can't do anymore: the rest is her decision.
Have you considered seeing a therapist? This sounds like a terrible violation of your trust, and I think it may be worth talking to someone about. Best of luck.
posted by HabeasCorpus at 8:19 PM on December 17, 2009
I am asking whether it is legally possible to file a claim against him for what he did to me.
If you are only posting this here for legal advice, why don't you contact a lawyer in your state? Not that I think that is a good idea. If everyone could sue people who screwed them over in love - everyone probably would.
posted by pinky at 8:24 PM on December 17, 2009
If you are only posting this here for legal advice, why don't you contact a lawyer in your state? Not that I think that is a good idea. If everyone could sue people who screwed them over in love - everyone probably would.
posted by pinky at 8:24 PM on December 17, 2009
can *I* file any sort of legal claim because of what he did to me?
You can file a legal claim for anything, so I suppose that you can. The chances of you winning are nearly nonexistent.
posted by chris p at 8:27 PM on December 17, 2009
You can file a legal claim for anything, so I suppose that you can. The chances of you winning are nearly nonexistent.
posted by chris p at 8:27 PM on December 17, 2009
If you really want to know what your legal options are, speak to a lawyer. You can have an initial consultation over the phone, so there's no need to travel in order to explore your options.
In this case, I recommend spending your money on therapists rather than lawyers, but if you need legal advice, the way to get it is to consult with a lawyer.
posted by decathecting at 8:46 PM on December 17, 2009
In this case, I recommend spending your money on therapists rather than lawyers, but if you need legal advice, the way to get it is to consult with a lawyer.
posted by decathecting at 8:46 PM on December 17, 2009
First, I think that you and wifey are still buying a load of crap if you think with you was the first time he was actually physically unfaithful. Just my gut. Second, you need to decide what you want to get from the guy. Are you looking to make his life miserable? Are you looking for cash? What will make you satisfied? Maybe you don't have any legal recourse, but if you are just looking to let the shit fly, contact his employer. See if he belongs to any business or professional associations. I think you could make his life miserable for a little while until he became innured to it.
But, if it were me, and I was you, I would wait. I believe that revenge is a dish best served cold. And it sounds like revenge is what you want. You could begin the process of moving on and a year or two from now when he thinks this has all gone away, BAM!
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:46 PM on December 17, 2009
But, if it were me, and I was you, I would wait. I believe that revenge is a dish best served cold. And it sounds like revenge is what you want. You could begin the process of moving on and a year or two from now when he thinks this has all gone away, BAM!
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:46 PM on December 17, 2009
I second decathechting.
posted by HabeasCorpus at 8:47 PM on December 17, 2009
posted by HabeasCorpus at 8:47 PM on December 17, 2009
As for real damages: I passed up a job opportunity to stay in this area and pursue our supposed relationship.
you made a choice to pass up a job. there is no guarantee in love. your relationship could have fallen apart for a million reasons. a judge isn't going to award you damages because you took a chance at love. especially since you were only intimate for a month.
as far as learning for the future, good actor or no, you were able to track him down even though you were given a false name and location. maybe until you can trust your bullshit detector, you do a little googling before you give up job prospects for a guy.
posted by nadawi at 8:58 PM on December 17, 2009
you made a choice to pass up a job. there is no guarantee in love. your relationship could have fallen apart for a million reasons. a judge isn't going to award you damages because you took a chance at love. especially since you were only intimate for a month.
as far as learning for the future, good actor or no, you were able to track him down even though you were given a false name and location. maybe until you can trust your bullshit detector, you do a little googling before you give up job prospects for a guy.
posted by nadawi at 8:58 PM on December 17, 2009
I am not a lawyer, but let me share a bit of a lay perspective on how civil cases work in the US.
One person feels that they are the victim of an injury. For a case to succeed, that injury has to correspond to the jurisdiction's definition of a tort. A tort is a wrong committed against someone that is neither a criminal offense nor a breach of contract.
So the question you have to ask yourself (or better, to ask a lawyer) is whether or not the injuries this man has done you correspond to any tort that's defined in your jurisdiction. Another question you have to ask yourself is what tangible good, or potential earning power, have you lost?
It's very very rare for an award in a civil case to be made that's all about emotional pain and suffering. Usually a civil award is "$X for medical bills, $X for legal bills, $X for lost wages" and only then is the "pain and suffering" thing added on.
You basically seem like you want to sue this guy because he lied to you. I don't think that's going to fly. As for the "Well, I gave up a job to be with him" stuff--you gave up a job to be with someone you weren't even having sex with? Really? I think that would be incredibly hard to prove in court.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:11 PM on December 17, 2009
One person feels that they are the victim of an injury. For a case to succeed, that injury has to correspond to the jurisdiction's definition of a tort. A tort is a wrong committed against someone that is neither a criminal offense nor a breach of contract.
So the question you have to ask yourself (or better, to ask a lawyer) is whether or not the injuries this man has done you correspond to any tort that's defined in your jurisdiction. Another question you have to ask yourself is what tangible good, or potential earning power, have you lost?
It's very very rare for an award in a civil case to be made that's all about emotional pain and suffering. Usually a civil award is "$X for medical bills, $X for legal bills, $X for lost wages" and only then is the "pain and suffering" thing added on.
You basically seem like you want to sue this guy because he lied to you. I don't think that's going to fly. As for the "Well, I gave up a job to be with him" stuff--you gave up a job to be with someone you weren't even having sex with? Really? I think that would be incredibly hard to prove in court.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:11 PM on December 17, 2009
I am a lawyer, though not in Virginia.
Forget it. Move on. You have no cause of action. IIED would not apply.
No attorney would take this case. If you were to bring the case by representing yourself, you would be laughed out of court. The man would become the victim, viewed as a devilish rogue, and you would be viewed as the pathetic, vindictive scorned woman who is prosecuting an absurd lawsuit. And you would lose. You would have your ass handed to you and you would compound your suffering a thousand times over.
posted by jayder at 9:14 PM on December 17, 2009
Forget it. Move on. You have no cause of action. IIED would not apply.
No attorney would take this case. If you were to bring the case by representing yourself, you would be laughed out of court. The man would become the victim, viewed as a devilish rogue, and you would be viewed as the pathetic, vindictive scorned woman who is prosecuting an absurd lawsuit. And you would lose. You would have your ass handed to you and you would compound your suffering a thousand times over.
posted by jayder at 9:14 PM on December 17, 2009
I'm not a lawyer, but I think when you call a lawyer for an initial consultation, he will ask you if a contract has been broken. You will want to be prepared with an answer. Did you have a contract with him?
posted by Houstonian at 9:16 PM on December 17, 2009
posted by Houstonian at 9:16 PM on December 17, 2009
Listen to the people who are telling you to back away.
I would not talk to a lawyer unless you are seeking more emotional harm.
posted by rr at 9:43 PM on December 17, 2009
I would not talk to a lawyer unless you are seeking more emotional harm.
posted by rr at 9:43 PM on December 17, 2009
(No legal advice here. But if all of this has just happened in the last month -- and therefore it's only been a few weeks since you turned down that West Coast job -- let them know you're available now! Who knows, maybe the applicant they picked when you said 'no' isn't working out. Good luck.)
posted by lisa g at 9:58 PM on December 17, 2009
posted by lisa g at 9:58 PM on December 17, 2009
anon: “I am not wealthy and I would like to know if there's anything I can go here legally before I even make the journey to consult a lawyer... I am asking whether it is legally possible to file a claim against him for what he did to me.”
It really doesn't matter that you aren't wealthy. We are not lawyers, and cannot provide legal expertise. Are you aware that people who are lawyers can lose their license to practice law if they give advice to people on the internet? So understand that you aren't going to get any really detailed answers to this specific question - you will have to go to a lawyer. Many offer a free consultation, and they won't laugh at you, honest - just call one and have a chat with her and see what your options are. You don't need to do research or prepare a whole bunch of answers or anything - just call a lawyer and talk about options.
You don't have to travel - most lawyers will do a consultation like this over the phone.
As far as this issue: as a layman, you really shouldn't make this legal. Hell, you shouldn't make it your deal at all. If you ask me, you should get as far away from these two people as you possible can and never talk to them again. Talking to him is obviously toxic; and talking to her is toxic by proxy, merely because it means you re-living the pain you have left over from him. So you had a rough month - let it go and move on. If you ask me, your money would be best spent on talking to a psychiatrist about all the stuff you've been through; I know that's what helps me most.
posted by koeselitz at 10:00 PM on December 17, 2009
It really doesn't matter that you aren't wealthy. We are not lawyers, and cannot provide legal expertise. Are you aware that people who are lawyers can lose their license to practice law if they give advice to people on the internet? So understand that you aren't going to get any really detailed answers to this specific question - you will have to go to a lawyer. Many offer a free consultation, and they won't laugh at you, honest - just call one and have a chat with her and see what your options are. You don't need to do research or prepare a whole bunch of answers or anything - just call a lawyer and talk about options.
You don't have to travel - most lawyers will do a consultation like this over the phone.
As far as this issue: as a layman, you really shouldn't make this legal. Hell, you shouldn't make it your deal at all. If you ask me, you should get as far away from these two people as you possible can and never talk to them again. Talking to him is obviously toxic; and talking to her is toxic by proxy, merely because it means you re-living the pain you have left over from him. So you had a rough month - let it go and move on. If you ask me, your money would be best spent on talking to a psychiatrist about all the stuff you've been through; I know that's what helps me most.
posted by koeselitz at 10:00 PM on December 17, 2009
(Oh, sorry, maybe I misread your question -- it's only been a month since you were intimate, but maybe you had been dating this slimebag for many months previous to that. So perhaps you turned down the job more than a month ago. In any case, contacting that company can't hurt. And a change of time zones can work wonders in moving on.)
posted by lisa g at 10:04 PM on December 17, 2009
posted by lisa g at 10:04 PM on December 17, 2009
They (perhaps including lawyers, among whom I am not) seem to say that most every claim of IIED involves vomiting. You know, some sort of identifiable physical effect. If you didn't vomit or faint or whatever, this probably is the wrong road to go down.
posted by thejoshu at 10:32 PM on December 17, 2009
posted by thejoshu at 10:32 PM on December 17, 2009
IIED unfortunately doesn't apply. In the old days it would require an insult so bad you developed a health condition. Not so now, but in spirit it is still reserved for more damaging psychological harm than this. I agree with the posters who say you need to extricate yourself from this harmful situation rather than look to the courts. There are not generally legal remedies against dickheads like this. The good news is that they typically get their own comeuppance given enough time.
posted by Kirklander at 11:02 PM on December 17, 2009
posted by Kirklander at 11:02 PM on December 17, 2009
P.s. I don't think this would be "laughed out of court" so much as it would fail to enter court by failing to state a claim for which relief can be granted.
posted by Kirklander at 11:06 PM on December 17, 2009
posted by Kirklander at 11:06 PM on December 17, 2009
...if you are just looking to let the shit fly, contact his employer...
This is a spectacularly bad piece of advice.
posted by torquemaniac at 11:47 PM on December 17, 2009
This is a spectacularly bad piece of advice.
posted by torquemaniac at 11:47 PM on December 17, 2009
The reality is that the law does not afford a remedy for all wrongs. You should move on, a little wiser.
posted by megatherium at 4:23 AM on December 18, 2009
posted by megatherium at 4:23 AM on December 18, 2009
I'm sorry that this happened to you (and to the other women) in this man's life but I don't think involving the courts is the answer. Why not take the money you would have spent pursuing a legal claim to make the cross country move you had originally planned - the best revenge is to forget all about him and create a happy life for yourself on your own terms. All the best of luck.
posted by ceri richard at 4:39 AM on December 18, 2009
posted by ceri richard at 4:39 AM on December 18, 2009
My question is: if she chickens out on filing for divorce, can *I* file any sort of legal claim because of what he did to me?
I think this is the core question.
Why would your claim depend on what the wife does? What does it matter whether she files or does not file for divorce?
I think you will have a clearer path if you can answer this.
To answer your question: you can sue anyone for anything, but I think you would be very unlikely to win, in court or otherwise, by pursuing this.
posted by zippy at 4:48 AM on December 18, 2009
I think this is the core question.
Why would your claim depend on what the wife does? What does it matter whether she files or does not file for divorce?
I think you will have a clearer path if you can answer this.
To answer your question: you can sue anyone for anything, but I think you would be very unlikely to win, in court or otherwise, by pursuing this.
posted by zippy at 4:48 AM on December 18, 2009
What is your goal here? Pretend for a minute that your suit is actually something that would be heard in court. Do you want money? How much do you feel your suffering is worth? Do you want him to have to stand up in court and admit that he wronged you? Would that give you closure? Do you want to prevent him from doing this to someone else? Being a jerk is not illegal, and no judge in the world can force him to be faithful.
FWIW, I'm sorry that you're going through this.
posted by crankylex at 6:23 AM on December 18, 2009
FWIW, I'm sorry that you're going through this.
posted by crankylex at 6:23 AM on December 18, 2009
I am a lawyer, though not in Virginia, and most significantly, not your lawyer, but...
If I were a Virginia attorney, and you brought this to me, I wouldn't take the case, even if you were paying by the hour, and any lawyer who did could be subject to ethical sanctions for advancing an action without even colorable support of law. IIED generally requires the plaintiff to show that 1) the wrongdoer's conduct was intentional or reckless; 2) the conduct was outrageous or intolerable; 3) there was a causal connection between the wrongdoer's conduct and the resulting emotional distress; and 4) the resulting emotional distress was severe.
You're going to fail on points two and four. By "outrageous or intolerable" courts generally mean something like "beyond all bounds of human decency." I'm afraid what happened here is a little too... pedestrian. It happens way, way too frequently. The case where the Virginia Supreme Court first recognized IIED as a cause of action involved getting a completely innocent party hauled down to the police station to be investigated for child molestation. I think most reasonable parties would agree that that represents a rather more significant--and public--violation of polite interaction than sleeping with someone under less than total disclosure.
Also, while you're upset, this does not appear to reach the level of "severe" emotional distress. You can still eat/sleep/work, yes? You don't frequently go incoherent or suffer from insomnia. This doesn't appear to have triggered a major depressive event. You are not, in short, a wretched shell of your former self. All of those happened to the plaintiff in the case I mentioned above.
While we're on the subject, you really don't have any claim for compensation based on lost financial opportunities based on choices you made to stay with him either. For a court to recognize such damages would be to recognize something like a contract between the two of you, where you promise to give up your financial opportunities in exchange for his love and affection. But the courts adamantly and consistently refuse to recognize love and affection as consideration for a contract. That's called "prostitution," and the legal system wants no truck with it.
Not every wrong has a legal remedy. This is one of them. The courts are very, very reluctant, explicitly so, to intervene in cases where there is no financial or physical injury, lest they become tools for vengeance over mere hurt feelings. I'm afraid you're just going to have to deal with it.
Finally, were it not for the statutory bar, you could be liable for alienation of affection, because alienation is not an intentional tort. It would not matter whether or not you knew he was married, because your actions would have caused the wrong in view. Again, Virginia abolished this tort a few decades ago, but the law would not otherwise view you as an innocent party.
I don't mean to sound like an insensitive clod, but this really is the legal situation.
posted by valkyryn at 6:35 AM on December 18, 2009
If I were a Virginia attorney, and you brought this to me, I wouldn't take the case, even if you were paying by the hour, and any lawyer who did could be subject to ethical sanctions for advancing an action without even colorable support of law. IIED generally requires the plaintiff to show that 1) the wrongdoer's conduct was intentional or reckless; 2) the conduct was outrageous or intolerable; 3) there was a causal connection between the wrongdoer's conduct and the resulting emotional distress; and 4) the resulting emotional distress was severe.
You're going to fail on points two and four. By "outrageous or intolerable" courts generally mean something like "beyond all bounds of human decency." I'm afraid what happened here is a little too... pedestrian. It happens way, way too frequently. The case where the Virginia Supreme Court first recognized IIED as a cause of action involved getting a completely innocent party hauled down to the police station to be investigated for child molestation. I think most reasonable parties would agree that that represents a rather more significant--and public--violation of polite interaction than sleeping with someone under less than total disclosure.
Also, while you're upset, this does not appear to reach the level of "severe" emotional distress. You can still eat/sleep/work, yes? You don't frequently go incoherent or suffer from insomnia. This doesn't appear to have triggered a major depressive event. You are not, in short, a wretched shell of your former self. All of those happened to the plaintiff in the case I mentioned above.
While we're on the subject, you really don't have any claim for compensation based on lost financial opportunities based on choices you made to stay with him either. For a court to recognize such damages would be to recognize something like a contract between the two of you, where you promise to give up your financial opportunities in exchange for his love and affection. But the courts adamantly and consistently refuse to recognize love and affection as consideration for a contract. That's called "prostitution," and the legal system wants no truck with it.
Not every wrong has a legal remedy. This is one of them. The courts are very, very reluctant, explicitly so, to intervene in cases where there is no financial or physical injury, lest they become tools for vengeance over mere hurt feelings. I'm afraid you're just going to have to deal with it.
Finally, were it not for the statutory bar, you could be liable for alienation of affection, because alienation is not an intentional tort. It would not matter whether or not you knew he was married, because your actions would have caused the wrong in view. Again, Virginia abolished this tort a few decades ago, but the law would not otherwise view you as an innocent party.
I don't mean to sound like an insensitive clod, but this really is the legal situation.
posted by valkyryn at 6:35 AM on December 18, 2009
I am asking whether it is legally possible to file a claim against him for what he did to me.
If you want to know whether a lawsuit is "legally possible" you need to ask a lawyer admitted to the bar in the appropriate state, they are the only folks authorized by law to answer this question. You are pretty facially asking for 'free legal advice' here, in that you want a definitive answer before you go pay for a lawyer.
The last Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress case I handled involved a family who was killed in a car accident, one member (a child) survived unharmed physically after witnessing the death - and decapitation - of close family members, trapped in the car for over an hour thereafter while rescuers tried to gain access. This was in a different jurisdiction than your case, and not a statement of the law of IIED. Not to say I am the expert here, but I have never heard of IIED used for "My boyfriend lied to me, and I regret the things I did because I believed those lies". I think valkyryn explains why very well.
A practical point: What do you hope to gain by suing? People usually sue in civil courts (non-criminal, non-family, non-probate) for: (1) Money and/or (2) to force a specific action. Unless this guy is loaded and likely to have huge personal assets, a money judgment might be useless against him. What point is there in spending hours of your life for months pursuing a lawsuit, even if you could do so, for no net reward? To continue to enmesh your life with this scumbag's? To further impede your personal growth and achievement of the things you want?
If you want to know whether you legally can/should pursue a claim, there is no other way to do that than an appointment with a lawyer. But, I think you should make an appointment with a counselor either first or simultaneously, to help you focus on your own personal growth out of this very awful, really sad situation. I would also suggest that you perhaps disentangle yourself from the wife - it's not really helping either of you. Regardless of what legal actions you choose to attempt to pursue my (unsolicited, admittedly) advice is that you begin the process of emotionally moving on.
posted by bunnycup at 6:56 AM on December 18, 2009
If you want to know whether a lawsuit is "legally possible" you need to ask a lawyer admitted to the bar in the appropriate state, they are the only folks authorized by law to answer this question. You are pretty facially asking for 'free legal advice' here, in that you want a definitive answer before you go pay for a lawyer.
The last Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress case I handled involved a family who was killed in a car accident, one member (a child) survived unharmed physically after witnessing the death - and decapitation - of close family members, trapped in the car for over an hour thereafter while rescuers tried to gain access. This was in a different jurisdiction than your case, and not a statement of the law of IIED. Not to say I am the expert here, but I have never heard of IIED used for "My boyfriend lied to me, and I regret the things I did because I believed those lies". I think valkyryn explains why very well.
A practical point: What do you hope to gain by suing? People usually sue in civil courts (non-criminal, non-family, non-probate) for: (1) Money and/or (2) to force a specific action. Unless this guy is loaded and likely to have huge personal assets, a money judgment might be useless against him. What point is there in spending hours of your life for months pursuing a lawsuit, even if you could do so, for no net reward? To continue to enmesh your life with this scumbag's? To further impede your personal growth and achievement of the things you want?
If you want to know whether you legally can/should pursue a claim, there is no other way to do that than an appointment with a lawyer. But, I think you should make an appointment with a counselor either first or simultaneously, to help you focus on your own personal growth out of this very awful, really sad situation. I would also suggest that you perhaps disentangle yourself from the wife - it's not really helping either of you. Regardless of what legal actions you choose to attempt to pursue my (unsolicited, admittedly) advice is that you begin the process of emotionally moving on.
posted by bunnycup at 6:56 AM on December 18, 2009
You have no cause of action. IIED would not apply.
No attorney would take this case.
Also, what Valkyryn said. Unfortunately, adultery is not so outrageous in this country as to be "intolerable in a civilized society." You didn't see someone murdered, causing night sweats and inability to function...
posted by Pax at 7:27 AM on December 18, 2009
No attorney would take this case.
Also, what Valkyryn said. Unfortunately, adultery is not so outrageous in this country as to be "intolerable in a civilized society." You didn't see someone murdered, causing night sweats and inability to function...
posted by Pax at 7:27 AM on December 18, 2009
I have to stress that the answer you have selected as the best answer is not the best answer.
posted by Shepherd at 7:29 AM on December 18, 2009
posted by Shepherd at 7:29 AM on December 18, 2009
Thank you for all the viewpoints.
To answer the questions that were posed:
I am extremely upset but I am not physically ill. I probably am having a depressive episode, but I've never been diagnosed. I am definitely planning to see a therapist. To all of you who think this is minor: it's not. It's extremely emotionally hurtful and it also leaves me feeling very confused about how I am supposed to proceed with dating knowing that someone can deceive me so completely over such a long period of time. I hope you never have to understand that from the inside out. I am not a gullible moron. He did a fantastic job of deceiving me. He was there and supportive for many months, including while I was seeing another person, and consistent in seeming like a good guy until very recently. According to his wife, this is his MO. He enjoys getting people to trust him and then suddenly cutting all contact.
What I want is not money, nor to have him admit that he wronged me (because I now believe he is a psychopath and has no empathy for anyone nor would he care that he wronged anyone). I want him to face some real consequences for his actions. Having to pay alimony is one. Being publicly embarrassed might be another.
Ever since I'd known him he had always traveled a lot (this part was not a lie). He has an extremely visible job. When I finally did know his true name I found all sorts of published papers, videos of speeches, etc. online. If what he does were known to his employer and colleagues I do believe it could cause trouble for him. That's the main reason I am still hoping the wife gets a fault divorce.
It looks like the opportunity I passed up is indeed still available, and I am planning to move regardless of whether I end up working with that company or not.
I didn't just do "a little Googling" to find out his true identity. I did some snooping on my own, but I also contacted a PI I'd known years ago for some additional help.
I have told the wife that I will participate in any legal action she needs me for, but other than that I don't want to communicate anymore. She obviously has significant issues of her own that I don't want to get caught up in.
posted by parrot_person at 7:35 AM on December 18, 2009
To answer the questions that were posed:
I am extremely upset but I am not physically ill. I probably am having a depressive episode, but I've never been diagnosed. I am definitely planning to see a therapist. To all of you who think this is minor: it's not. It's extremely emotionally hurtful and it also leaves me feeling very confused about how I am supposed to proceed with dating knowing that someone can deceive me so completely over such a long period of time. I hope you never have to understand that from the inside out. I am not a gullible moron. He did a fantastic job of deceiving me. He was there and supportive for many months, including while I was seeing another person, and consistent in seeming like a good guy until very recently. According to his wife, this is his MO. He enjoys getting people to trust him and then suddenly cutting all contact.
What I want is not money, nor to have him admit that he wronged me (because I now believe he is a psychopath and has no empathy for anyone nor would he care that he wronged anyone). I want him to face some real consequences for his actions. Having to pay alimony is one. Being publicly embarrassed might be another.
Ever since I'd known him he had always traveled a lot (this part was not a lie). He has an extremely visible job. When I finally did know his true name I found all sorts of published papers, videos of speeches, etc. online. If what he does were known to his employer and colleagues I do believe it could cause trouble for him. That's the main reason I am still hoping the wife gets a fault divorce.
It looks like the opportunity I passed up is indeed still available, and I am planning to move regardless of whether I end up working with that company or not.
I didn't just do "a little Googling" to find out his true identity. I did some snooping on my own, but I also contacted a PI I'd known years ago for some additional help.
I have told the wife that I will participate in any legal action she needs me for, but other than that I don't want to communicate anymore. She obviously has significant issues of her own that I don't want to get caught up in.
posted by parrot_person at 7:35 AM on December 18, 2009
Not to toot my own horn here, but Shepherd is completely right.
You do need help, but not the kind you get from a lawyer. Though if you pursue your ill-considered desire for vengenace, you might need legal help too. Though adultery isn't really a viable cause of action anymore and especially not for the "other woman," (which you are in this case), defamation is really alive and well. If you aren't careful about how you handle this, and if something you say causes him financial consequences, you should expect him to sue your pants off.
Truth is a defense to defamation, but if everything you say is not documentably true, you're looking at a potentially hefty damage award, and the defense costs alone could be thousands of dollars.
He is holding all the cards here, and even if you could potentially cause him inconvenience or worse by revealing unpleasant details, that pales in comparison to how badly he can hurt you for doing so.
You want advice? Walk. Away.
posted by valkyryn at 7:48 AM on December 18, 2009
You do need help, but not the kind you get from a lawyer. Though if you pursue your ill-considered desire for vengenace, you might need legal help too. Though adultery isn't really a viable cause of action anymore and especially not for the "other woman," (which you are in this case), defamation is really alive and well. If you aren't careful about how you handle this, and if something you say causes him financial consequences, you should expect him to sue your pants off.
Truth is a defense to defamation, but if everything you say is not documentably true, you're looking at a potentially hefty damage award, and the defense costs alone could be thousands of dollars.
He is holding all the cards here, and even if you could potentially cause him inconvenience or worse by revealing unpleasant details, that pales in comparison to how badly he can hurt you for doing so.
You want advice? Walk. Away.
posted by valkyryn at 7:48 AM on December 18, 2009
valkyrn,
Again, no, I didn't want advice in a general sense about what to do. I posted because I wanted to know if I myself had a legal case or not. I'm satisfied that I don't.
I believe I could prove what he did. I won't go into details. I haven't decided what to do yet but when I do you can be assured that it will include consideration for my own protection.
posted by parrot_person at 7:52 AM on December 18, 2009
Again, no, I didn't want advice in a general sense about what to do. I posted because I wanted to know if I myself had a legal case or not. I'm satisfied that I don't.
I believe I could prove what he did. I won't go into details. I haven't decided what to do yet but when I do you can be assured that it will include consideration for my own protection.
posted by parrot_person at 7:52 AM on December 18, 2009
To all of you who think this is minor: it's not. It's extremely emotionally hurtful and it also leaves me feeling very confused about how I am supposed to proceed with dating knowing that someone can deceive me so completely over such a long period of time.
No one said it was minor. They said there is probably no remedy in the law for you. There are a lot of major, traumatic things that can happen to a person that do not give rise to a valid legal claim.
I want him to face some real consequences for his actions. Having to pay alimony is one. Being publicly embarrassed might be another.
You have no power over the first. A lawsuit will not necessarily lead to the second. Let's assume for a second that there is a tort for "lied to a person in a romantic relationship." You file suit. He will hire lawyers whose job it is to create a theory of the case that paints you in the worst possible light. They could say, for example, that you are a liar, mentally unbalanced, a desperate person who believed what she wanted to believe, or a gullible fool. Did you tell him anything personal, intimate, embarrassing? Expect it to become part of their theory of the case if it is unflattering information.
You will be subject to discovery. If you put your mental or physical health at issue, you might be required to turn over medical records, psychiatric records, and therapy records--to this man who lied and hurt you and to his attorneys, whose goal is to undermine and discredit you. You could also have to turn over emails, letters, journals. You will be deposed--you will sit across a table from this man and his attorneys and asked any questions they can think of that are arguably relevant.
And then, let's say you go to trial. Any personal information they have learned about you will be presented in open court in a manner that is most beneficial to them and least beneficial to you. Some people think lawsuits lead to The Truth and Justice. Maybe you think this; maybe you think if you can sue him then the whole world will see what a lying bastard this guy is. But a lawsuit is really just two sides presenting competing narratives and facts, and the factfinder (judge or jury) must choose which one seems most credible. They might not choose you.
I am genuinely sorry that you've gone through this. It sounds like a nightmare. I do not think what he did to you is minor. But I also don't think the law has anything to offer you.
posted by Mavri at 8:01 AM on December 18, 2009
No one said it was minor. They said there is probably no remedy in the law for you. There are a lot of major, traumatic things that can happen to a person that do not give rise to a valid legal claim.
I want him to face some real consequences for his actions. Having to pay alimony is one. Being publicly embarrassed might be another.
You have no power over the first. A lawsuit will not necessarily lead to the second. Let's assume for a second that there is a tort for "lied to a person in a romantic relationship." You file suit. He will hire lawyers whose job it is to create a theory of the case that paints you in the worst possible light. They could say, for example, that you are a liar, mentally unbalanced, a desperate person who believed what she wanted to believe, or a gullible fool. Did you tell him anything personal, intimate, embarrassing? Expect it to become part of their theory of the case if it is unflattering information.
You will be subject to discovery. If you put your mental or physical health at issue, you might be required to turn over medical records, psychiatric records, and therapy records--to this man who lied and hurt you and to his attorneys, whose goal is to undermine and discredit you. You could also have to turn over emails, letters, journals. You will be deposed--you will sit across a table from this man and his attorneys and asked any questions they can think of that are arguably relevant.
And then, let's say you go to trial. Any personal information they have learned about you will be presented in open court in a manner that is most beneficial to them and least beneficial to you. Some people think lawsuits lead to The Truth and Justice. Maybe you think this; maybe you think if you can sue him then the whole world will see what a lying bastard this guy is. But a lawsuit is really just two sides presenting competing narratives and facts, and the factfinder (judge or jury) must choose which one seems most credible. They might not choose you.
I am genuinely sorry that you've gone through this. It sounds like a nightmare. I do not think what he did to you is minor. But I also don't think the law has anything to offer you.
posted by Mavri at 8:01 AM on December 18, 2009
Sorry, posted before you said that you're satisfied that you don't have a legal case. Didn't mean to pile on.
posted by Mavri at 8:03 AM on December 18, 2009
posted by Mavri at 8:03 AM on December 18, 2009
One last attempt at injecting some reason here: if you do have any consideration for your own protection you will leave this behind you as quickly as possible. The odds that you can hurt him more than he can hurt you are very, very low.
posted by valkyryn at 8:10 AM on December 18, 2009
posted by valkyryn at 8:10 AM on December 18, 2009
Leave them alone. He did not cause you real damages because you passed up a job and a move. You caused yourself those real damages, because it was your decision. No legal entity will care about how good an actor he was. YOU decided not to take the job, YOU decided to stay where you are, YOU wanted to continue the relationship with someone you never bothered to Google. Grow up, take responsibility, hightail it to a therapist, and move on.
posted by WeekendJen at 8:16 AM on December 18, 2009
posted by WeekendJen at 8:16 AM on December 18, 2009
WeekendJen,
You're making a lot of assumptions there. Since you didn't actually read the history of this post, I'll restate one point here: Googling alone did not yield this information.
You've obviously lead a very privileged life if you believe this couldn't happen to you and that it would require someone who "doesn't take responsibility" or who "didn't bother to X".
posted by parrot_person at 8:33 AM on December 18, 2009
You're making a lot of assumptions there. Since you didn't actually read the history of this post, I'll restate one point here: Googling alone did not yield this information.
You've obviously lead a very privileged life if you believe this couldn't happen to you and that it would require someone who "doesn't take responsibility" or who "didn't bother to X".
posted by parrot_person at 8:33 AM on December 18, 2009
I'd like to ask everyone who has posted that I should "learn a lesson" what lesson exactly they propose I should learn.
The only lesson I see here is one is how evil people can be. I don't see anything helpful I can take to a future dating relationship. I see the potential for simply never trusting anyone again, which does not appear to be the type of helpful "lesson" that some of you think I should "move on" with.
posted by parrot_person at 8:39 AM on December 18, 2009
The only lesson I see here is one is how evil people can be. I don't see anything helpful I can take to a future dating relationship. I see the potential for simply never trusting anyone again, which does not appear to be the type of helpful "lesson" that some of you think I should "move on" with.
posted by parrot_person at 8:39 AM on December 18, 2009
I am asking whether it is legally possible to file a claim against him for what he did to me.
He didn't have a contract with you to break.
He has an extremely visible job. When I finally did know his true name I found all sorts of published papers, videos of speeches, etc. online. If what he does were known to his employer and colleagues I do believe it could cause trouble for him.
If this is your goal, then a lawsuit isn't your solution. Embarrassing people doesn't have to take place in a courtroom, although if you libel someone, you could still end up in one.
posted by Kurichina at 8:45 AM on December 18, 2009
He didn't have a contract with you to break.
He has an extremely visible job. When I finally did know his true name I found all sorts of published papers, videos of speeches, etc. online. If what he does were known to his employer and colleagues I do believe it could cause trouble for him.
If this is your goal, then a lawsuit isn't your solution. Embarrassing people doesn't have to take place in a courtroom, although if you libel someone, you could still end up in one.
posted by Kurichina at 8:45 AM on December 18, 2009
Yeah, this is not the sort of thing that the legal system is built to handle. As a result, it *doesn't* handle these things.
posted by craven_morhead at 9:01 AM on December 18, 2009
posted by craven_morhead at 9:01 AM on December 18, 2009
I never said I didn't believe this could happen to me, however if it did, I would realize that no real tangible damage were done by the man I was dating and that any opportunities I passed up in favor of the relationship are my fault / responsibility. I am currently in a relationship and because of it I am not currently living in an area that I want and I have an excruciating commute to get to work so that I can live with this person. That is my decision and if things go sour for whatever reason, he is not to blame for me wasting hours a day commuting or living an a less than ideal area.
The lesson you need to learn is that you can't that easily trust people, unfortunately, and that you really should consider yourself first before making any sacrifices for a relationship before you and the other person are legally bound (I.e. married or legal equivalent). It's not a matter of never trusting anyone, its a matter of gradually trusting.
You should also learn the importance of gut feelings. When did you hire a private investigator and why? The need to even do this says that something was telling you the relationship went horribly wrong and you should have gotten out of it at that point and never kept contact with the wife for so long.
Lastly and most importantly you need to learn that relationships, like everything else in life, come with risks and are not garunteed. Whenever you become involved with someone, you may get burned. When you walk outside, a tree could fall on your head. You need to weigh risks and chances in your relationships better to determine if you can progress or go with the status quo more.
posted by WeekendJen at 9:22 AM on December 18, 2009
The lesson you need to learn is that you can't that easily trust people, unfortunately, and that you really should consider yourself first before making any sacrifices for a relationship before you and the other person are legally bound (I.e. married or legal equivalent). It's not a matter of never trusting anyone, its a matter of gradually trusting.
You should also learn the importance of gut feelings. When did you hire a private investigator and why? The need to even do this says that something was telling you the relationship went horribly wrong and you should have gotten out of it at that point and never kept contact with the wife for so long.
Lastly and most importantly you need to learn that relationships, like everything else in life, come with risks and are not garunteed. Whenever you become involved with someone, you may get burned. When you walk outside, a tree could fall on your head. You need to weigh risks and chances in your relationships better to determine if you can progress or go with the status quo more.
posted by WeekendJen at 9:22 AM on December 18, 2009
parrot_person,
The legal question has obviously been answered to your satisfaction, so I am only putting this comment in here to sympathize with you. It's a terrible, horrible situation, one over which you had no control but from which you have to suffer. I'm so sorry this happened, and I'm glad to hear that you can recover at least something (the opportunity you passed up and a, probably much needed at this point, move).
I really don't think the lesson here is "be more careful," I completely agree with you that if a person is trying hard enough, they can put up a convincing front that mostly only luck or extreme suspicion will find out. If there is a lesson (and I don't know that there is), it's something more along the lines of "shit happens" or "bad things happen to good people." What I mean by that is that I think you need to take to heart that it wasn't your fault. Your trust was betrayed, but I hope in the long run, you will see this as a rather isolated and unusual incident, an extreme of human behaviour that you had the deep misfortune to come into contact with. I hope that you won't let it define how you feel about men, and about people in general, because I think that what you need now is a support network of friends who can help you start to see the good in life again.
I grew up with a man who was like this, not in MO, but in the sense that he found his pleasure in hurting people and betraying their trust. What has helped me more than anything in dealing with the emotional aftermath of that experience is cutting off all contact, and trying, forcibly, to stem resentment and anger. I made a vow to myself when I was 21 to not let his actions define my choices any longer. It took a long time and a lot of work, but it was the best choice I ever made. I am now more free of him than I ever thought would be possible.
I know you didn't ask for advice about what to do, but I wanted to share that with you because it hurts me to think about this man continuing to live in your thoughts and make you suffer. I hope, whatever you decide to do, that you find some peace with this, and regain your faith in people.
posted by carmen at 9:35 AM on December 18, 2009
The legal question has obviously been answered to your satisfaction, so I am only putting this comment in here to sympathize with you. It's a terrible, horrible situation, one over which you had no control but from which you have to suffer. I'm so sorry this happened, and I'm glad to hear that you can recover at least something (the opportunity you passed up and a, probably much needed at this point, move).
I really don't think the lesson here is "be more careful," I completely agree with you that if a person is trying hard enough, they can put up a convincing front that mostly only luck or extreme suspicion will find out. If there is a lesson (and I don't know that there is), it's something more along the lines of "shit happens" or "bad things happen to good people." What I mean by that is that I think you need to take to heart that it wasn't your fault. Your trust was betrayed, but I hope in the long run, you will see this as a rather isolated and unusual incident, an extreme of human behaviour that you had the deep misfortune to come into contact with. I hope that you won't let it define how you feel about men, and about people in general, because I think that what you need now is a support network of friends who can help you start to see the good in life again.
I grew up with a man who was like this, not in MO, but in the sense that he found his pleasure in hurting people and betraying their trust. What has helped me more than anything in dealing with the emotional aftermath of that experience is cutting off all contact, and trying, forcibly, to stem resentment and anger. I made a vow to myself when I was 21 to not let his actions define my choices any longer. It took a long time and a lot of work, but it was the best choice I ever made. I am now more free of him than I ever thought would be possible.
I know you didn't ask for advice about what to do, but I wanted to share that with you because it hurts me to think about this man continuing to live in your thoughts and make you suffer. I hope, whatever you decide to do, that you find some peace with this, and regain your faith in people.
posted by carmen at 9:35 AM on December 18, 2009
[a few comments removed - please try to keep comments constructive, thanks]
posted by jessamyn at 9:38 AM on December 18, 2009
posted by jessamyn at 9:38 AM on December 18, 2009
I want him to face some real consequences for his actions.
He has. He lost you.
posted by zippy at 9:50 AM on December 18, 2009
He has. He lost you.
posted by zippy at 9:50 AM on December 18, 2009
The only lesson I see here is one is how evil people can be. I don't see anything helpful I can take to a future dating relationship. I see the potential for simply never trusting anyone again, which does not appear to be the type of helpful "lesson" that some of you think I should "move on" with.
That is not the right lesson, and nobody wants you to stop trusting everyone. (Though it would be perfectly human to have your ability to trust others really impaired for a while after an experience like this.)
Some lessons I might take from a similar situation are these:
- bad stuff happens to good people, including you;
- you are resilient and can overcome horrible situations;
- having revenge fantasies can be empowering, but actually acting on them is ridiculous and counter-productive;
- honesty is very important to you in your life and in your relationships;
- not every bad act that someone commits can be adjudicated in a court of law.
Do see a therapist. They will help you process this terrible situation. You were betrayed cruelly, and it's only natural to need and want guidance and comfort after an experience like this.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:03 AM on December 18, 2009
That is not the right lesson, and nobody wants you to stop trusting everyone. (Though it would be perfectly human to have your ability to trust others really impaired for a while after an experience like this.)
Some lessons I might take from a similar situation are these:
- bad stuff happens to good people, including you;
- you are resilient and can overcome horrible situations;
- having revenge fantasies can be empowering, but actually acting on them is ridiculous and counter-productive;
- honesty is very important to you in your life and in your relationships;
- not every bad act that someone commits can be adjudicated in a court of law.
Do see a therapist. They will help you process this terrible situation. You were betrayed cruelly, and it's only natural to need and want guidance and comfort after an experience like this.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:03 AM on December 18, 2009
I'd like to ask everyone who has posted that I should "learn a lesson" what lesson exactly they propose I should learn.
I didn't post because I didn't have legal advice, but I did have a thought on this angle: an important lesson from this type of experience is that it's possible to be deeply hurt and betrayed and to move on and heal even if the person who hurt and betrayed you never faces the consequences of his actions.
That's not to say it's easy or painless to move on without the satisfaction of seeing him embarrassed, hurt, or otherwise punished (indeed, it's terribly hard and painful)--or that it's wrong to want the person to be punished for his betrayal--just that it's possible.
posted by Meg_Murry at 10:46 AM on December 18, 2009
I didn't post because I didn't have legal advice, but I did have a thought on this angle: an important lesson from this type of experience is that it's possible to be deeply hurt and betrayed and to move on and heal even if the person who hurt and betrayed you never faces the consequences of his actions.
That's not to say it's easy or painless to move on without the satisfaction of seeing him embarrassed, hurt, or otherwise punished (indeed, it's terribly hard and painful)--or that it's wrong to want the person to be punished for his betrayal--just that it's possible.
posted by Meg_Murry at 10:46 AM on December 18, 2009
Let's assume for a second that there is a tort for "lied to a person in a romantic relationship." You file suit. He will hire lawyers whose job it is to create a theory of the case that paints you in the worst possible light. They could say, for example, that you are a liar, mentally unbalanced, a desperate person who believed what she wanted to believe, or a gullible fool.
He could also point out that you talked about him in this forum, talked about your desire for vengeance, threatened actions that are potentially interpreted as leaning in the harassment zone (repeatedly contacting his wife, going to his bosses, etc.). I would most strongly suggest you ask the mods to anonymize or preferably delete this post (since other commenters refer back to you by your handle), at this point, based on your follow up comments.
The only lesson I see here is one is how evil people can be.
Maybe instead of learning a lesson, you should teach yourself a lesson about being the bigger person. Teach yourself to let go of past bad experiences (we all have them), to make your own life good, valid in your eyes, and strong. It's possible - I've learned lessons from things that are absolutely, wholly, totally awful. Please recognize that a great number of people answering your question here have taken pains to sympathize with you.
posted by bunnycup at 10:54 AM on December 18, 2009
He could also point out that you talked about him in this forum, talked about your desire for vengeance, threatened actions that are potentially interpreted as leaning in the harassment zone (repeatedly contacting his wife, going to his bosses, etc.). I would most strongly suggest you ask the mods to anonymize or preferably delete this post (since other commenters refer back to you by your handle), at this point, based on your follow up comments.
The only lesson I see here is one is how evil people can be.
Maybe instead of learning a lesson, you should teach yourself a lesson about being the bigger person. Teach yourself to let go of past bad experiences (we all have them), to make your own life good, valid in your eyes, and strong. It's possible - I've learned lessons from things that are absolutely, wholly, totally awful. Please recognize that a great number of people answering your question here have taken pains to sympathize with you.
posted by bunnycup at 10:54 AM on December 18, 2009
I'd known him for a year and a half, although we didn't become intimate until a month ago...he suddenly disappeared several weeks after we were together.
So you've known him for a year and a half, were together for a couple of weeks, and this happened recently? Anyone who's had their heart broken knows how hurt and angry you are, but this just happened. Let time heal your wounds.
I want him to face some real consequences for his actions.
He won't. Sorry. The best chance of that happening was when his wife was talking about divorcing him. If she doesn't, anything you do will be a he-said/she-said situation.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:12 PM on December 18, 2009
There is an interesting psychological study out there, the gist of which is that we overestimate how satisfying revenge will be. It is typically disappointing when it happens.
I agree with bunnycup's statement. Your situation reminds me of someone else who got preyed on by a romantic fraud artist. She wanted the guy to suffer all kinds of payback, all of which just served to inflate her narcissistic ex's opinion of being the center of the universe. She even tried to get him deported. None of this really paid off. I do feel for you though.
posted by Kirklander at 12:21 PM on December 18, 2009
I agree with bunnycup's statement. Your situation reminds me of someone else who got preyed on by a romantic fraud artist. She wanted the guy to suffer all kinds of payback, all of which just served to inflate her narcissistic ex's opinion of being the center of the universe. She even tried to get him deported. None of this really paid off. I do feel for you though.
posted by Kirklander at 12:21 PM on December 18, 2009
Some lessons I might take from a similar situation are these:
- bad stuff happens to good people, including you;
- you are resilient and can overcome horrible situations;
- having revenge fantasies can be empowering, but actually acting on them is ridiculous and counter-productive;
- honesty is very important to you in your life and in your relationships;
- not every bad act that someone commits can be adjudicated in a court of law.
I just want to underscore these thoughtful observations from Sidhedevil. "I can't ever trust anyone ever again" may be one lesson you can learn from the situation, but it is definitely not the only lesson you could learn. I also encourage you to spend some time with a therapist working through the entirely understandable anger and shock you're feeling, so that you can come out on the other end of this in a more positive, empowered frame of mind. This way, what is a terrible situation now can turn out to be merely a catalyst for creating tangible, healthy benefits for yourself and your future relationships.
posted by scody at 12:37 PM on December 18, 2009
- bad stuff happens to good people, including you;
- you are resilient and can overcome horrible situations;
- having revenge fantasies can be empowering, but actually acting on them is ridiculous and counter-productive;
- honesty is very important to you in your life and in your relationships;
- not every bad act that someone commits can be adjudicated in a court of law.
I just want to underscore these thoughtful observations from Sidhedevil. "I can't ever trust anyone ever again" may be one lesson you can learn from the situation, but it is definitely not the only lesson you could learn. I also encourage you to spend some time with a therapist working through the entirely understandable anger and shock you're feeling, so that you can come out on the other end of this in a more positive, empowered frame of mind. This way, what is a terrible situation now can turn out to be merely a catalyst for creating tangible, healthy benefits for yourself and your future relationships.
posted by scody at 12:37 PM on December 18, 2009
Some people think lawsuits lead to The Truth and Justice. Maybe you think this; maybe you think if you can sue him then the whole world will see what a lying bastard this guy is. But a lawsuit is really just two sides presenting competing narratives and facts, and the factfinder (judge or jury) must choose which one seems most credible. They might not choose you.
Not to mention that if he is that manipulative, then he can probably manipulate lawyers, judges, juries, etc. absent forensic evidence, it would be a tough road to hoe. He did it to you (I am sorry for that) he can do it to the judges, even judges who think they've seen & heard it all.
posted by xetere at 2:10 PM on December 18, 2009
Not to mention that if he is that manipulative, then he can probably manipulate lawyers, judges, juries, etc. absent forensic evidence, it would be a tough road to hoe. He did it to you (I am sorry for that) he can do it to the judges, even judges who think they've seen & heard it all.
posted by xetere at 2:10 PM on December 18, 2009
parrot_person: “I'd like to ask everyone who has posted that I should "learn a lesson" what lesson exactly they propose I should learn... The only lesson I see here is one is how evil people can be.”
Well, for starters, that's not a bad lesson. I don't mean that in a cynical way; I just mean that it's worth knowing that people are capable of this nonsense. And you feel stung now, and very hurt, but with time you'll feel more detached about it and will be better able to face the possibility that people are being dishonest to you.
What's interesting to me is your knee-jerk reaction, seen several times here already, that because of this guy you may as well never trust anyone ever again. On the face of it, I know it's your bitterness talking when you say that, but you must know that that's a childish and irrational conclusion. This man apparently went to ridiculous lengths to deceive you in order to sleep with you, right? And to secure a particular affection from you toward him. Maybe it takes an outside observer to point this out: isn't that a little pathological? I mean, isn't it obvious that this man has real spiritual and emotional problems, problems that will without doubt cause him great pain and unhappiness, whether it becomes public or not? So, first of all, your fear that there's no justice in the world, at least, is unwarranted; when people do to others what he did to you, they're harming themselves, as well.
But, to go further with this: it seems to me that most people wouldn't be prepared to make the knee-jerk statement that they're never going to trust anyone again simply because most people have certain friends and family members who they can't help but trust, and who they couldn't easily toss out of the equation. What this indicates to me is that you're extremely isolated, that you either do not have or have lost touch with any really dear and close friends or family members in whom you feel you can confide. It sounds distinctly as though you have no one you can cry with, no one you can commiserate with, and no one you can talk to about this. I'm not talking about a therapist, although that's a good thing; a good therapist will see the need of having some network of close friends or relatives around you to help you deal with where you are right now. So my suggestion is: think of the people in your life that you've felt, in the past, you could trust the most, and call them on the telephone. Talk about what's happened with a few of them, see if you can hang out with them, but at least just spend time interacting. Your bitterness says "but how can I know that I can trust them? What if they're lying just like he was?" Remember that that's just your bitterness talking, and call them anyway - psychologically, you really need them right now, if only to help you return to a place where you can trust other people.
posted by koeselitz at 4:16 PM on December 18, 2009
Well, for starters, that's not a bad lesson. I don't mean that in a cynical way; I just mean that it's worth knowing that people are capable of this nonsense. And you feel stung now, and very hurt, but with time you'll feel more detached about it and will be better able to face the possibility that people are being dishonest to you.
What's interesting to me is your knee-jerk reaction, seen several times here already, that because of this guy you may as well never trust anyone ever again. On the face of it, I know it's your bitterness talking when you say that, but you must know that that's a childish and irrational conclusion. This man apparently went to ridiculous lengths to deceive you in order to sleep with you, right? And to secure a particular affection from you toward him. Maybe it takes an outside observer to point this out: isn't that a little pathological? I mean, isn't it obvious that this man has real spiritual and emotional problems, problems that will without doubt cause him great pain and unhappiness, whether it becomes public or not? So, first of all, your fear that there's no justice in the world, at least, is unwarranted; when people do to others what he did to you, they're harming themselves, as well.
But, to go further with this: it seems to me that most people wouldn't be prepared to make the knee-jerk statement that they're never going to trust anyone again simply because most people have certain friends and family members who they can't help but trust, and who they couldn't easily toss out of the equation. What this indicates to me is that you're extremely isolated, that you either do not have or have lost touch with any really dear and close friends or family members in whom you feel you can confide. It sounds distinctly as though you have no one you can cry with, no one you can commiserate with, and no one you can talk to about this. I'm not talking about a therapist, although that's a good thing; a good therapist will see the need of having some network of close friends or relatives around you to help you deal with where you are right now. So my suggestion is: think of the people in your life that you've felt, in the past, you could trust the most, and call them on the telephone. Talk about what's happened with a few of them, see if you can hang out with them, but at least just spend time interacting. Your bitterness says "but how can I know that I can trust them? What if they're lying just like he was?" Remember that that's just your bitterness talking, and call them anyway - psychologically, you really need them right now, if only to help you return to a place where you can trust other people.
posted by koeselitz at 4:16 PM on December 18, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
the law tries to stay out of emotional attachments as much as possible. in the eyes of the law, you and he have no attachment. if you find a lawyer to take your case, it'll be an ambulance chaser and you're unlikely to even it get it heard, much less won. i don't even see a solid case for fraud here as you seem to lack concrete damages.
this will not give you the peace, closure, or revenge that you seek. the best way to do that is to move on, check out of their drama entirely, and be spectacular without him. i understand wanting to destroy his life, but to continue on this path will harm you more than anyone.
posted by nadawi at 8:12 PM on December 17, 2009