Ambivalent about getting married.
September 10, 2009 9:39 AM Subscribe
I'm posting this as myself because my S.O. doesn't read ask.mefi, and even if he does, he's aware of the problem anyway.
I'm very ambivalent about getting married. Our wedding is three months away. We've been together for three years. We share a house we just bought a few months ago, but either of us could afford to live in it alone. We have no kids.
I love my fiance, and I am happy enough with him. We have the day-to-day details of our life together worked out pretty well. We treat each other with respect and kindness, and the sex is good.
The problem is this: I had been growing increasingly unhappy in our relationship. I really wanted someone with whom I could share a creative existence. I want to talk about ideas, play music, do creative things together. Me and my fiance's relationship had pretty much become a matter of keeping our day-to-day lives going and staying home and watching DVD's. It was a loving and affectionate relationship, but not exciting.
Enter a third party. I play viola in an amateur orchestra and a new violist showed up in the section last spring. He started asking me to do things with him, but I declined because I wanted to protect my relationship with my fiance. However, the friendship developed anyway, through drinks with orchestra colleagues after rehearsal and conversations on IM. We discovered we had a lot in common intellectually. Like, Orchestra Guy's mind + my mind = a big playground that I wanted us to explore together.
So I decided that Orchestra Guy and I could just be friends.
Well, we fell in love. And then I told my fiance I wanted to leave. After some crying and shouting, my fiance and I spent the day together and he promised to make some changes. I just wanted to leave, but since my fiance has been nothing but kind, loving, and supportive toward me I felt I owed it to him to stick around.
So my fiance and I have been going out more, talking more. He started taking music lessons (which is something he wanted to do anyway). We've talked about making comics together (he draws, I write). I've seen him go through a tremendous amount of growth in the past few weeks.
But in the meantime I don't know what to do about the love I feel for Orchestra Guy. It's like I accidentally grew a fifth limb. It makes me a freak, and I should probably cut it off, but the thought of doing so, hurts.
To make matters a little more complicated; the wedding is in Mexico, and several people have already bought plane tickets.
This is one of the most painful and difficult things I've ever gone through.
I know a lot of people would say, "if you have to ask the question, you probably shouldn't get married," but I'm hoping for something a little more nuanced than that.
I love my fiance, and I am happy enough with him. We have the day-to-day details of our life together worked out pretty well. We treat each other with respect and kindness, and the sex is good.
The problem is this: I had been growing increasingly unhappy in our relationship. I really wanted someone with whom I could share a creative existence. I want to talk about ideas, play music, do creative things together. Me and my fiance's relationship had pretty much become a matter of keeping our day-to-day lives going and staying home and watching DVD's. It was a loving and affectionate relationship, but not exciting.
Enter a third party. I play viola in an amateur orchestra and a new violist showed up in the section last spring. He started asking me to do things with him, but I declined because I wanted to protect my relationship with my fiance. However, the friendship developed anyway, through drinks with orchestra colleagues after rehearsal and conversations on IM. We discovered we had a lot in common intellectually. Like, Orchestra Guy's mind + my mind = a big playground that I wanted us to explore together.
So I decided that Orchestra Guy and I could just be friends.
Well, we fell in love. And then I told my fiance I wanted to leave. After some crying and shouting, my fiance and I spent the day together and he promised to make some changes. I just wanted to leave, but since my fiance has been nothing but kind, loving, and supportive toward me I felt I owed it to him to stick around.
So my fiance and I have been going out more, talking more. He started taking music lessons (which is something he wanted to do anyway). We've talked about making comics together (he draws, I write). I've seen him go through a tremendous amount of growth in the past few weeks.
But in the meantime I don't know what to do about the love I feel for Orchestra Guy. It's like I accidentally grew a fifth limb. It makes me a freak, and I should probably cut it off, but the thought of doing so, hurts.
To make matters a little more complicated; the wedding is in Mexico, and several people have already bought plane tickets.
This is one of the most painful and difficult things I've ever gone through.
I know a lot of people would say, "if you have to ask the question, you probably shouldn't get married," but I'm hoping for something a little more nuanced than that.
How did you feel about your S.O. when you first met him?
posted by Obscure Reference at 9:44 AM on September 10, 2009
posted by Obscure Reference at 9:44 AM on September 10, 2009
"I just wanted to leave, but since my fiance has been nothing but kind, loving, and supportive toward me I felt I owed it to him to stick around. "
You are not doing him any favors by sticking around out of a sense of loyalty or obligation when you want to be elsewhere. None at all.
posted by joelhunt at 9:44 AM on September 10, 2009 [19 favorites]
You are not doing him any favors by sticking around out of a sense of loyalty or obligation when you want to be elsewhere. None at all.
posted by joelhunt at 9:44 AM on September 10, 2009 [19 favorites]
I think first and foremost, you should call off the wedding. Not to say that you won't get married in the future, but three months out, when you're feeling "ambivalent" now and felt like leaving the relationship altogether just a short while ago, isn't a good place to start a legally-binding life together.
Calling off the wedding (or making the decision to postpone to another, vague date in the future) gives you time, so you're not feeling the pressure to fix everything/figure out everything right now. The pressure of a big, expensive (possibly) celebration in which you will stand in front of your family and friends, many of whom will have spent money on the occasion and on you, is too much a factor in the relationship, from what I'm reading.
Give yourself time. Call off the wedding. If people have booked tickets, offer to pay the fees to have those tickets exchanged or canceled, if you can afford it.
After that, you can figure out what to do about your heart.
posted by xingcat at 9:48 AM on September 10, 2009 [14 favorites]
Calling off the wedding (or making the decision to postpone to another, vague date in the future) gives you time, so you're not feeling the pressure to fix everything/figure out everything right now. The pressure of a big, expensive (possibly) celebration in which you will stand in front of your family and friends, many of whom will have spent money on the occasion and on you, is too much a factor in the relationship, from what I'm reading.
Give yourself time. Call off the wedding. If people have booked tickets, offer to pay the fees to have those tickets exchanged or canceled, if you can afford it.
After that, you can figure out what to do about your heart.
posted by xingcat at 9:48 AM on September 10, 2009 [14 favorites]
I know you're hoping for "more nuance" but your answer really is as you suspect. You shoudl not get married. Engaged people should be excited and looking forward to their marriage and life together. They don't spend months agonizing and freaking out. Engagements should not be "one of the most painful and difficult things" you've ever gone through.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 9:48 AM on September 10, 2009 [8 favorites]
posted by otherwordlyglow at 9:48 AM on September 10, 2009 [8 favorites]
Plenty of relationships don't work out despite both parties being wonderful, loving people. Sometimes two people just aren't meant to be together. Don't settle for the guy just because he's nice if you're not happy. The relationship will suffer for it later on if you do. What's worse? Canceling the wedding and helping people figure out how to get the money back for their plane tickets while the both of you heal and move on? Or having a bitter divorce years from now? How about staying together for the rest of your lives, neither of you being even remotely happy? It's uncomfortable, I know, but you'll both be better off if you do what you know you need to.
posted by katillathehun at 9:50 AM on September 10, 2009
posted by katillathehun at 9:50 AM on September 10, 2009
If you are worried about peoples plane tickets, save the money you would've spent on the wedding out of your own pocket, and send them airfare refund tickets.
Plus, many airlines will give you a voucher for a future flight if you cancel one early enough. so they might not even really be missing out on much.
Really, if you are getting married because you feel you owe it to your S.O., or because of costs for wedding guests - you are getting married for the wrong reasons. The marriage isn't going to last if it is built on a foundation like that.
posted by dpollitt at 9:50 AM on September 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
Plus, many airlines will give you a voucher for a future flight if you cancel one early enough. so they might not even really be missing out on much.
Really, if you are getting married because you feel you owe it to your S.O., or because of costs for wedding guests - you are getting married for the wrong reasons. The marriage isn't going to last if it is built on a foundation like that.
posted by dpollitt at 9:50 AM on September 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
Falling in love is a choice. You have idealised Orchestra Guy but from where I am sitting he has no moral objection to deliberately breaking up an existing relationship. That tells you a lot about him and your future prospects together.
posted by saucysault at 9:51 AM on September 10, 2009 [31 favorites]
posted by saucysault at 9:51 AM on September 10, 2009 [31 favorites]
As awkward and embarrassing as it might feel to call off the wedding now, being married is only going to make things worse. You'll be more trapped, more doubtful, and it will be even more awkward and difficult to get out of it.
As xingcat pointed out, you can always decide to get married after all, at a later time. But you're obviously, clearly not ready to marry this man, if you'll ever be.
Call it off now and give yourself some breathing room.
posted by tamaraster at 9:52 AM on September 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
As xingcat pointed out, you can always decide to get married after all, at a later time. But you're obviously, clearly not ready to marry this man, if you'll ever be.
Call it off now and give yourself some breathing room.
posted by tamaraster at 9:52 AM on September 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
(Oh, and I agree with saucysault. Furthermore, Orchestra Guy sounds like a symbol of your need to get out of your relationship, and I'd be willing to bet it's more to do with your feelings about your fiance than your feelings about Orchestra Guy.)
posted by katillathehun at 9:52 AM on September 10, 2009 [7 favorites]
posted by katillathehun at 9:52 AM on September 10, 2009 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: NoraReed,
Polyamory is an option for me, and a possible future option for my S.O. It is definitely something we have talked about. I think some people are naturally more monogamous toward others. I definitely consider myself toward the "non-monogamous" end of the spectrum, but staying with my S.O. for three years and being faithful to him has been an interesting exercise in discipline.
I have read a lot about polyamory and it really appeals to me, especially the focus on ethics, openness, and honesty. I have tried to be as open and honest as possible to both men throughout this whole situation, which in some ways has just made it much more difficult for everyone involved. I haven't even broached the topic of polyamory with Orchestra Guy.
My S.O. seems to be more toward the "naturally monogamous" end of things. I wouldn't force polyamory on him, but he has said it's something he'd be willing to consider for the future. He still wants to get married.
Obscure Reference,
I was crazy about my S.O. when we first met. In fact, I was pretty sure I would marry him before we even started going out.
joelhunt,
It may be the case that I'm doing my S.O. no favors by staying, but he explicitly refuses to let me go, and I feel weirdly unable to just leave unless he gives me his consent to go.
posted by spacewaitress at 9:53 AM on September 10, 2009
Polyamory is an option for me, and a possible future option for my S.O. It is definitely something we have talked about. I think some people are naturally more monogamous toward others. I definitely consider myself toward the "non-monogamous" end of the spectrum, but staying with my S.O. for three years and being faithful to him has been an interesting exercise in discipline.
I have read a lot about polyamory and it really appeals to me, especially the focus on ethics, openness, and honesty. I have tried to be as open and honest as possible to both men throughout this whole situation, which in some ways has just made it much more difficult for everyone involved. I haven't even broached the topic of polyamory with Orchestra Guy.
My S.O. seems to be more toward the "naturally monogamous" end of things. I wouldn't force polyamory on him, but he has said it's something he'd be willing to consider for the future. He still wants to get married.
Obscure Reference,
I was crazy about my S.O. when we first met. In fact, I was pretty sure I would marry him before we even started going out.
joelhunt,
It may be the case that I'm doing my S.O. no favors by staying, but he explicitly refuses to let me go, and I feel weirdly unable to just leave unless he gives me his consent to go.
posted by spacewaitress at 9:53 AM on September 10, 2009
But in the meantime I don't know what to do about the love I feel for Orchestra Guy. It's like I accidentally grew a fifth limb. It makes me a freak, and I should probably cut it off, but the thought of doing so, hurts.
What? No. Don't go through with a pity wedding. Call off the wedding and actually be with the person you love. A husband you don't care about is a much uglier fifth limb.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:54 AM on September 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
What? No. Don't go through with a pity wedding. Call off the wedding and actually be with the person you love. A husband you don't care about is a much uglier fifth limb.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:54 AM on September 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
You are not doing him any favors by sticking around out of a sense of loyalty or obligation when you want to be elsewhere. None at all.
Seconding that. Also, ""if you have to ask the question, you probably shouldn't get married" might not be nuanced, but it's good advice. This is a more important decision than your friend's lost airfare and should be made on the basis of what YOU want with the rest of your life and nothing else. That said, think about what made you love your fiancee in the first place. Are those things still there? Do you they still make you love him?
Importantly, are you willing to spend the rest of your life with the man your fiancee is RIGHT NOW. Don't think about his "growth" if all he wants to do is work, come home, and watch TV, then you either have to accept that or you can't be his wife, hoping that he'll become more like someone else is NOT a path to a happy marriage.
Another important consideration, if Orchestra Guy wasn't in the picture, would you marry your fiancee? This is the decision you're actually making, life with your fiancee versus life without, not fiancee versus Orchestra Guy.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:54 AM on September 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
Do not base the biggest decision of your life on whether or not someone else bought plane tickets. You need time to think. Put the wedding on hold.
posted by sageleaf at 9:56 AM on September 10, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by sageleaf at 9:56 AM on September 10, 2009 [5 favorites]
It may be the case that I'm doing my S.O. no favors by staying, but he explicitly refuses to let me go, and I feel weirdly unable to just leave unless he gives me his consent to go.
Stand up for yourself. No matter how much he whines, he can't control your behavior. Tell him that you're not doing either of you a favor sticking around. And then leave. You don't need his permission. You don't need his permission. If it makes you feel any better, you have metafilter's permission. Seriously!
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:56 AM on September 10, 2009 [9 favorites]
Stand up for yourself. No matter how much he whines, he can't control your behavior. Tell him that you're not doing either of you a favor sticking around. And then leave. You don't need his permission. You don't need his permission. If it makes you feel any better, you have metafilter's permission. Seriously!
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:56 AM on September 10, 2009 [9 favorites]
It may be the case that I'm doing my S.O. no favors by staying, but he explicitly refuses to let me go, and I feel weirdly unable to just leave unless he gives me his consent to go.
Tough cookies. It's your decision. It's not an easy decision to make, but don't make it his responsibility to "release you." Of course he doesn't want to let you go, but what's he going to do? Chain you up in the cellar? You're using him as an excuse to avoid an awkward situation.
posted by katillathehun at 9:57 AM on September 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
Tough cookies. It's your decision. It's not an easy decision to make, but don't make it his responsibility to "release you." Of course he doesn't want to let you go, but what's he going to do? Chain you up in the cellar? You're using him as an excuse to avoid an awkward situation.
posted by katillathehun at 9:57 AM on September 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
I wouldn't feel that bad about the tickets to Mexico. Presumably you were getting married somewhere that would be a great vacation?
Don't get married because you were going to before x happened. It's not fair to either of you. Your family will forgive you.
posted by shownomercy at 9:57 AM on September 10, 2009
Don't get married because you were going to before x happened. It's not fair to either of you. Your family will forgive you.
posted by shownomercy at 9:57 AM on September 10, 2009
Your S.O. can't refuse to let you go, you're an independent person. If break-ups only happened when the person being dumped consented to be dumped, break-ups would never happen.
You guys may be able to negotiate this minefield by discussing polyamory, but you definitely are not ready for marriage. Yes, you have made lots of plans, yes you have plane tickets bought, but breaking off those plans are way better than entering an unhappy relationship. You can't marry someone just because they love you. That is not fair to either person in the relationship.
I got out of a relationship with someone who was nothing but kind, loving, and supportive. I stayed it in too long because he was so kind, loving, and supportive, and it hurt us both a lot more as a result. Breaking things off was tremendously difficult but ultimately it was the right choice.
posted by Anonymous at 9:58 AM on September 10, 2009
You guys may be able to negotiate this minefield by discussing polyamory, but you definitely are not ready for marriage. Yes, you have made lots of plans, yes you have plane tickets bought, but breaking off those plans are way better than entering an unhappy relationship. You can't marry someone just because they love you. That is not fair to either person in the relationship.
I got out of a relationship with someone who was nothing but kind, loving, and supportive. I stayed it in too long because he was so kind, loving, and supportive, and it hurt us both a lot more as a result. Breaking things off was tremendously difficult but ultimately it was the right choice.
posted by Anonymous at 9:58 AM on September 10, 2009
You're already checked out of this relationship--you have feelings for another person, and continue to want to be with that other person. That's not fair to your fiance, unless he is willing to open up this relationship (my guess is no). Consider the quality of what you are giving to your fiance right now. It doesn't sound like you've gone through any tremendous growth, yourself.
All relationships take some level of tending, and what you have said here indicates that you expect your fiance to be the one who does that tending, and that you get to just revel in the benefits. This is an unfortunate way to look at something that is very much a two-way street, with equal responsibility between both/all people (including you).
posted by so_gracefully at 9:58 AM on September 10, 2009 [4 favorites]
All relationships take some level of tending, and what you have said here indicates that you expect your fiance to be the one who does that tending, and that you get to just revel in the benefits. This is an unfortunate way to look at something that is very much a two-way street, with equal responsibility between both/all people (including you).
posted by so_gracefully at 9:58 AM on September 10, 2009 [4 favorites]
First of all, I'm so sorry -- it's really painful, I know, to be breaking up with (or contemplating breaking up with) someone who's a sweet guy, who's trying to do the right things, toward whom you feel loving and affectionate. Painful for you, for him, for everyone, it sucks, and you have my sympathy.
That said -- I too was struck by "I felt I owed it to him to stick around." Hoo boy. Been there done that, and in my experience, it's only crueler, in the long run, to let things drag on on that basis.
I don't know if long-term you should end things with your fiance, reconnect with Orchestra Guy, or what, but I do think you should put the kibosh on the wedding, at least for now. Guilt and obligation make really bad foundations for permanent relationships.
posted by Kat Allison at 9:59 AM on September 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
That said -- I too was struck by "I felt I owed it to him to stick around." Hoo boy. Been there done that, and in my experience, it's only crueler, in the long run, to let things drag on on that basis.
I don't know if long-term you should end things with your fiance, reconnect with Orchestra Guy, or what, but I do think you should put the kibosh on the wedding, at least for now. Guilt and obligation make really bad foundations for permanent relationships.
posted by Kat Allison at 9:59 AM on September 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I have to agree with folks here. I've witnessed a strikingly similar struggle with a couple I know where one member started getting something from outside that they weren't getting inside and it completely destabilized the relationship for both parties even though in that case there was an explicit understanding of embarking into a polyamorous relationship. I think even if your husband can rationalize polyamory to the point he would be willing to explore it if it isn't his natural inclination to love that way its going to be a hard, uphill battle to get to a place where everyone is ok and happy.
Even though its painful it might be best to acknowledge that you aren't right for one another, even if the relationship is mostly good. At the very least you must postpone the wedding. Maybe the pressure of the impending nuptials is making everything harder for everyone and taking that off the plate makes other decisions easier to see and make.
Good luck.
posted by zennoshinjou at 10:00 AM on September 10, 2009
Even though its painful it might be best to acknowledge that you aren't right for one another, even if the relationship is mostly good. At the very least you must postpone the wedding. Maybe the pressure of the impending nuptials is making everything harder for everyone and taking that off the plate makes other decisions easier to see and make.
Good luck.
posted by zennoshinjou at 10:00 AM on September 10, 2009
Best answer: I just got divorced.
She mentioned wanting to leave a few dozen times over the last six years, sometimes in big moments; I loved her, so I tried not to listen to that, and instead did everything I could to be the guy she wanted.
I 'experienced personal growth.' I 'was kind, loving and supportive.' I tried to be the nicest guy, the most decent guy, the easiest guy to be around.
I ended up with no ambition whatsoever and no inkling of what I wanted out of life because I was so busy trying to figure out how to keep her happy and keep her from leaving that I lost track of who I was. So for the last month and a half I've been sitting around watching old Doctor Who episodes and waiting for my true desires, the desires I once had - to philosophize, to contemplate, to write, to read, to play music, et cetera - to return. They've been gone for a long, long time.
You're hurting him. You don't know that you're doing it, but you're hurting him. When he 'improves himself' merely in the hope of convincing you to stay, he's not doing it for himself; so it doesn't mean anything, and when time passes he'll see that, and instead of having built a foundation to grow from, he'll just have to find another hobby centered around making you happy. That's not a healthy paradigm. The point of a partnership is that you both ought to be allowed to pursue your goals in tandem, alongside each other; so long as he's fulfilling goals that you have for him, that's certainly not happening. And you know it; that's why you can't let go of Orchestra guy. He's the sign you're holding up that says: 'something's wrong here, I can feel it!'
You need to find a way to end this. The easiest way to do so is probably to sleep with Orchestra Guy and then tell your fiance about it. I am quite serious: infidelity can be the jarring shock that brings down the house of cards if you need it to be. Of course this will involve some embarrassment on your part, and will certainly be a bit messy.
Most likely you need to find a friend, a good friend you can trust who will be on your side no matter what you choose to do. Someone you've known longer than fiance, preferably. And not someone you could ever have an interest in (i.e. not Orchestra Guy.) Tell this friend: "help! I can't get married. I shouldn't do it. I'm serious. Help me get out of this. Please!"
It'll be easier if you have a friend; you're going to need to tell your fiance that you're ending it and then minimize discussion and negotiation on that point to avoid being tempted to 'patch things up.' Also, you're going to have some logistical difficulties that it's going to be tough to sort through, and it'll be good to have someone to hold your hand a bit. Lean on your friends.
posted by koeselitz at 10:01 AM on September 10, 2009 [78 favorites]
She mentioned wanting to leave a few dozen times over the last six years, sometimes in big moments; I loved her, so I tried not to listen to that, and instead did everything I could to be the guy she wanted.
I 'experienced personal growth.' I 'was kind, loving and supportive.' I tried to be the nicest guy, the most decent guy, the easiest guy to be around.
I ended up with no ambition whatsoever and no inkling of what I wanted out of life because I was so busy trying to figure out how to keep her happy and keep her from leaving that I lost track of who I was. So for the last month and a half I've been sitting around watching old Doctor Who episodes and waiting for my true desires, the desires I once had - to philosophize, to contemplate, to write, to read, to play music, et cetera - to return. They've been gone for a long, long time.
You're hurting him. You don't know that you're doing it, but you're hurting him. When he 'improves himself' merely in the hope of convincing you to stay, he's not doing it for himself; so it doesn't mean anything, and when time passes he'll see that, and instead of having built a foundation to grow from, he'll just have to find another hobby centered around making you happy. That's not a healthy paradigm. The point of a partnership is that you both ought to be allowed to pursue your goals in tandem, alongside each other; so long as he's fulfilling goals that you have for him, that's certainly not happening. And you know it; that's why you can't let go of Orchestra guy. He's the sign you're holding up that says: 'something's wrong here, I can feel it!'
You need to find a way to end this. The easiest way to do so is probably to sleep with Orchestra Guy and then tell your fiance about it. I am quite serious: infidelity can be the jarring shock that brings down the house of cards if you need it to be. Of course this will involve some embarrassment on your part, and will certainly be a bit messy.
Most likely you need to find a friend, a good friend you can trust who will be on your side no matter what you choose to do. Someone you've known longer than fiance, preferably. And not someone you could ever have an interest in (i.e. not Orchestra Guy.) Tell this friend: "help! I can't get married. I shouldn't do it. I'm serious. Help me get out of this. Please!"
It'll be easier if you have a friend; you're going to need to tell your fiance that you're ending it and then minimize discussion and negotiation on that point to avoid being tempted to 'patch things up.' Also, you're going to have some logistical difficulties that it's going to be tough to sort through, and it'll be good to have someone to hold your hand a bit. Lean on your friends.
posted by koeselitz at 10:01 AM on September 10, 2009 [78 favorites]
Since you already know the answer, here's some nuance. Modern marriage has devolved to the point where it only accomplishes three things:
1. It satisfies certain religious strictures which, I suspect, don't apply in your case.
2. It "legitimizes" children, a concept which is increasingly (and IMO justifiably) considered specious.
3. It transfers assets from the higher-earning to the lower-earning spouse.
Many people will insist that the "commitment" is what it's all about; the divorce rate would seem to obviate that thought.
So, when you approach your fiancé, question the impending nuptials from a pragmatic standpoint, rather than "I've got cold feet because I think I've found another lover". In the absence of a need to satisfy any of the three goals above, there's really no reason to get married.
posted by dinger at 10:02 AM on September 10, 2009 [5 favorites]
1. It satisfies certain religious strictures which, I suspect, don't apply in your case.
2. It "legitimizes" children, a concept which is increasingly (and IMO justifiably) considered specious.
3. It transfers assets from the higher-earning to the lower-earning spouse.
Many people will insist that the "commitment" is what it's all about; the divorce rate would seem to obviate that thought.
So, when you approach your fiancé, question the impending nuptials from a pragmatic standpoint, rather than "I've got cold feet because I think I've found another lover". In the absence of a need to satisfy any of the three goals above, there's really no reason to get married.
posted by dinger at 10:02 AM on September 10, 2009 [5 favorites]
Call off the wedding NOW. People will then be able to get vouchers if not refunds for their plane tickets. This might be a source of annoyance, but it will be infinitely less annoying and frustrating than people making all the effort to come to a wedding you're not into, which will be an embarrassing and upsetting experience for everyone.
I have had the experience of attending a wedding that one party was clearly not into. None of us knew where to look. The couple broke up about six months later, when the not-into-it party ran off with somebody. Don't be that person.
Okay, as for the other stuff: Take the wedding off the table. Get some couples counseling, because you guys need it. Get some counseling on your own, because you need it.
This:
but he explicitly refuses to let me go, and I feel weirdly unable to just leave unless he gives me his consent to go
is fucked up. Seriously, you guys need couples counseling RIGHT THIS SECOND to work this out because it is fucked up.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:04 AM on September 10, 2009 [4 favorites]
I have had the experience of attending a wedding that one party was clearly not into. None of us knew where to look. The couple broke up about six months later, when the not-into-it party ran off with somebody. Don't be that person.
Okay, as for the other stuff: Take the wedding off the table. Get some couples counseling, because you guys need it. Get some counseling on your own, because you need it.
This:
but he explicitly refuses to let me go, and I feel weirdly unable to just leave unless he gives me his consent to go
is fucked up. Seriously, you guys need couples counseling RIGHT THIS SECOND to work this out because it is fucked up.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:04 AM on September 10, 2009 [4 favorites]
First, don't let the plane ticket thing complicate things. You are working on life-changing issues here, and the matter of a few hundred dollars shouldn't sway you one way or the other.
You have to figure out if you and your fiance got into a rut that you can get out of, or if the person you've come to know over three years just isn't someone you want to stick it out with for the rest of your life. You say you've "seen him go through a tremendous amount of growth in the past few weeks" - but how sustainable is it, and how important is that to you? If he learns an instrument but doesn't want to be in a band is that ok? If he makes some comics with you but doesn't want to pursue getting published more widely is that ok?
"I love my fiance, and I am happy enough with him. "
Statements like this are not a good sign. It sounds like you have decided where your feelings lie and made plans in your head regarding living arrangements, etc. But if you do want to give your relationship another chance, you need some couples counseling and long, honest talks with your fiance. Getting out of your rut as you are doing is good, but it doesn't really address your long-term goals, feelings, desires, etc. compared to his.
posted by mikepop at 10:04 AM on September 10, 2009
You have to figure out if you and your fiance got into a rut that you can get out of, or if the person you've come to know over three years just isn't someone you want to stick it out with for the rest of your life. You say you've "seen him go through a tremendous amount of growth in the past few weeks" - but how sustainable is it, and how important is that to you? If he learns an instrument but doesn't want to be in a band is that ok? If he makes some comics with you but doesn't want to pursue getting published more widely is that ok?
"I love my fiance, and I am happy enough with him. "
Statements like this are not a good sign. It sounds like you have decided where your feelings lie and made plans in your head regarding living arrangements, etc. But if you do want to give your relationship another chance, you need some couples counseling and long, honest talks with your fiance. Getting out of your rut as you are doing is good, but it doesn't really address your long-term goals, feelings, desires, etc. compared to his.
posted by mikepop at 10:04 AM on September 10, 2009
Reverse the situation: Would you want him to stick around because he felt he "owed" you? Would you want him to marry you, knowing there was another woman out there with whom he connected on a deeper level? Just imagining this makes my skin crawl; if my husband had felt this way about me, I'd not only give him "permission" to leave, I'd pack his bags for him.
posted by desjardins at 10:07 AM on September 10, 2009 [6 favorites]
posted by desjardins at 10:07 AM on September 10, 2009 [6 favorites]
but he explicitly refuses to let me go, and I feel weirdly unable to just leave unless he gives me his consent to go
On non-preview, yeah you need to leave and figure things out.
posted by mikepop at 10:09 AM on September 10, 2009
On non-preview, yeah you need to leave and figure things out.
posted by mikepop at 10:09 AM on September 10, 2009
spacewaitress: Polyamory is an option for me, and a possible future option for my S.O. It is definitely something we have talked about. I think some people are naturally more monogamous toward others. I definitely consider myself toward the "non-monogamous" end of the spectrum, but staying with my S.O. for three years and being faithful to him has been an interesting exercise in discipline.
If I may be so bold: don't even think about polyamory in this situation. You want to leave, but feel constrained; he knows you want to leave, but won't consent. Neither of you are even close to ready for something as tough as polyamory.
It may be the case that I'm doing my S.O. no favors by staying, but he explicitly refuses to let me go, and I feel weirdly unable to just leave unless he gives me his consent to go.
One of many painful things you'll have to learn on the road ahead:
The sooner he goes through the phase of hating you, the sooner he'll be able to start moving forward. He's probably going to be really, really pissed off at you for a long time. That's the nature of the beast. Don't harbor any illusions about 'staying friends,' at least not for the near future (say for the next year.) So your leaving 'without his consent' will hurt him deeply and make him feel massive resentment toward you? Unfortunately, that's the way things work.
And maybe you should start to see things more in this light:
Isn't it your life to do with as you please? To love whomever you want, to love as many or as few as you'd like? So he was kind to you - haven't you thanked him enough? What kind of person withholds their consent to allow another to go where they wish and do what they want to? Don't stay tied to this situation - break free.
posted by koeselitz at 10:12 AM on September 10, 2009 [7 favorites]
If I may be so bold: don't even think about polyamory in this situation. You want to leave, but feel constrained; he knows you want to leave, but won't consent. Neither of you are even close to ready for something as tough as polyamory.
It may be the case that I'm doing my S.O. no favors by staying, but he explicitly refuses to let me go, and I feel weirdly unable to just leave unless he gives me his consent to go.
One of many painful things you'll have to learn on the road ahead:
The sooner he goes through the phase of hating you, the sooner he'll be able to start moving forward. He's probably going to be really, really pissed off at you for a long time. That's the nature of the beast. Don't harbor any illusions about 'staying friends,' at least not for the near future (say for the next year.) So your leaving 'without his consent' will hurt him deeply and make him feel massive resentment toward you? Unfortunately, that's the way things work.
And maybe you should start to see things more in this light:
Isn't it your life to do with as you please? To love whomever you want, to love as many or as few as you'd like? So he was kind to you - haven't you thanked him enough? What kind of person withholds their consent to allow another to go where they wish and do what they want to? Don't stay tied to this situation - break free.
posted by koeselitz at 10:12 AM on September 10, 2009 [7 favorites]
It sounds like you're trying to avoid being the bad guy here, but, you can't. Relationships don't work out and sometimes someone has to shoulder the blame. In this instance it's going to have to be you. You don't get to ask him for consent to go and then walk away saying it was a mutual break-up.
Accept that you're going to take the brunt of the blame for this one and end it. There will be tears, fights, accusations, disbelief and all the other bad stuff that goes along with it. You will lose some friends, you will be thought badly of in some quarters for a long time. Keep telling yourself that you really are doing both of you a favor, because you are. Do not marry this man.
posted by IanMorr at 10:13 AM on September 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
Accept that you're going to take the brunt of the blame for this one and end it. There will be tears, fights, accusations, disbelief and all the other bad stuff that goes along with it. You will lose some friends, you will be thought badly of in some quarters for a long time. Keep telling yourself that you really are doing both of you a favor, because you are. Do not marry this man.
posted by IanMorr at 10:13 AM on September 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
I was crazy about my S.O. when we first met. In fact, I was pretty sure I would marry him before we even started going out.
And how does that compare to how you feel about OrchestraGuy right now?
posted by Obscure Reference at 10:21 AM on September 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
And how does that compare to how you feel about OrchestraGuy right now?
posted by Obscure Reference at 10:21 AM on September 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
I should probably cut it off, but the thought of doing so, hurts
The fact that something hurts is not a reason not to do it.
Having said that, I think I know what you want and I doubt it is good for either of you.
First, it sounds like your fiance wants to be monogamous. No poly relationship can work for long where one party is just going along with it to get his or her share of the remainder. He sounds to me like he wants you and only you. You want to have your cake and eat it too. Having your cake and eating it too isn't polyamory. It is you hurting someone with their permission.
So, you are forced to make a choice. It is you not wanting to make that choice that is really the source of your pain. You would like some sort of world where you get to not have to take other people's needs and emotions into account when you are engaged in a relationship with them. Don't think for a moment that you won't have to do this in a poly relationship either. Your problem isn't a sexual one at all. It is one of not taking another's feelings into account. In essence, you are in denial about the stark choices that the world sometimes presents us. Accept that you cannot have both. Accept that whatever choice you make, people are going to get hurt and you are going to be only partially satisfied with the result. Then the answer to your choice will be obvious.
Finally, you are also going to have to accept the guilty feelings, anger and self-loathing that comes with lying and hurting someone you love. These feelings are often put off by continuing affairs. Accept your humaness and ask forgiveness for lying to him and cheating on him.
What you did was wrong because you made a promise not to do it. In future, if you feel you are not the type of person who can keep that kind of promise then don't make such promises. In the end, cheating isn't a crime of passion--it is a crime of lying and betrayal. Understanding that will go a long way towards helping you make your decision.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:21 AM on September 10, 2009 [11 favorites]
The fact that something hurts is not a reason not to do it.
Having said that, I think I know what you want and I doubt it is good for either of you.
First, it sounds like your fiance wants to be monogamous. No poly relationship can work for long where one party is just going along with it to get his or her share of the remainder. He sounds to me like he wants you and only you. You want to have your cake and eat it too. Having your cake and eating it too isn't polyamory. It is you hurting someone with their permission.
So, you are forced to make a choice. It is you not wanting to make that choice that is really the source of your pain. You would like some sort of world where you get to not have to take other people's needs and emotions into account when you are engaged in a relationship with them. Don't think for a moment that you won't have to do this in a poly relationship either. Your problem isn't a sexual one at all. It is one of not taking another's feelings into account. In essence, you are in denial about the stark choices that the world sometimes presents us. Accept that you cannot have both. Accept that whatever choice you make, people are going to get hurt and you are going to be only partially satisfied with the result. Then the answer to your choice will be obvious.
Finally, you are also going to have to accept the guilty feelings, anger and self-loathing that comes with lying and hurting someone you love. These feelings are often put off by continuing affairs. Accept your humaness and ask forgiveness for lying to him and cheating on him.
What you did was wrong because you made a promise not to do it. In future, if you feel you are not the type of person who can keep that kind of promise then don't make such promises. In the end, cheating isn't a crime of passion--it is a crime of lying and betrayal. Understanding that will go a long way towards helping you make your decision.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:21 AM on September 10, 2009 [11 favorites]
Finally, you are also going to have to accept the guilty feelings, anger and self-loathing that comes with lying and hurting someone you love. These feelings are often put off by continuing affairs. Accept your humaness and ask forgiveness for lying to him and cheating on him.
I've read the question twice over and don't see any reference to infidelity.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 10:23 AM on September 10, 2009
I've read the question twice over and don't see any reference to infidelity.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 10:23 AM on September 10, 2009
Yeah, his "personal growth" is the result of nothing but a desperate gambit to keep you around. You'll never be able to play with him artistically, because it's impossible to be free, creatively, if you're monitoring your every action according to what you think someone else wants.
Also, you've probably idealized Orchestra Guy a lot. Nobody's as great as you think they are once they stop being your Salvation and start being your Lover, because no human being can really live up to the conception you've created of them when you're in that state.
If, being honest with yourself, you decide you really want to save your relationship with your fiance, you've got a lot to work out. If not, you should leave. Much better now than when you're married.
posted by invitapriore at 10:24 AM on September 10, 2009 [4 favorites]
Also, you've probably idealized Orchestra Guy a lot. Nobody's as great as you think they are once they stop being your Salvation and start being your Lover, because no human being can really live up to the conception you've created of them when you're in that state.
If, being honest with yourself, you decide you really want to save your relationship with your fiance, you've got a lot to work out. If not, you should leave. Much better now than when you're married.
posted by invitapriore at 10:24 AM on September 10, 2009 [4 favorites]
What you describe is not ambivalence. What you describe is not wanting to get married, being in love with someone else entirely and thinking you might do it anyway out of a misplaced sense of obligation.
Now, it's possible that the right decision is for you to stay with your fiance and try to work things out and see if his personal growth and your attention to the relationship will get you to a place where you're in love with him again, and that's a worthwhile goal, but it's not a goal for 3 months from now.
Call off the wedding even if you don't break up with your fiance. Without that looming over you (because, for fuck's sake, what's a couple of cheap-ass charter flight plane tickets to Mexico vs. the rest of your bloody life?) make a decision about whether you want to try and make it work with fiance. If you don't, then make a decision about whether you want to be with other violist.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:27 AM on September 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Now, it's possible that the right decision is for you to stay with your fiance and try to work things out and see if his personal growth and your attention to the relationship will get you to a place where you're in love with him again, and that's a worthwhile goal, but it's not a goal for 3 months from now.
Call off the wedding even if you don't break up with your fiance. Without that looming over you (because, for fuck's sake, what's a couple of cheap-ass charter flight plane tickets to Mexico vs. the rest of your bloody life?) make a decision about whether you want to try and make it work with fiance. If you don't, then make a decision about whether you want to be with other violist.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:27 AM on September 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I just wanted to comment on your desire to "share a creative existence" with your significant other. I'm not saying you should stay with your fiance, but I've been involved in relationships that were both creative and intimate, and it puts a lot of unnecessary pressure on the relationship. Not everyone can be Charles and Ray Eames. If it's effortless, that's fine, but the hope that one person can meet all your needs is pretty flawed and not particularly healthy.
posted by lunalaguna at 10:29 AM on September 10, 2009 [8 favorites]
posted by lunalaguna at 10:29 AM on September 10, 2009 [8 favorites]
Relationships need constant maintenance. Long term relationships become comfortable and easy and sometimes some of the spark fades and needs to be rekindled. New relationships are exciting and dynamic and incredibly compelling. A great deal of this is chemical.
This being said, going into a marriage that you are not completely sure about is a bad idea. If things are already at the point where major work is involved to continue the relationship making this kind of commitment can only complicate things.
As for polyamory I don't see it as a solution. If both people aren't equally ready for this It can only blow up in a huge mess. I have known a few people who have lived with three as a "couple" and it has never lasted long. Generally one person is left behind while two carry on together.
Don't get married because of guilt or the idea that it will solve problems in the relationship. It won't.
posted by Wendy BD at 10:30 AM on September 10, 2009
This being said, going into a marriage that you are not completely sure about is a bad idea. If things are already at the point where major work is involved to continue the relationship making this kind of commitment can only complicate things.
As for polyamory I don't see it as a solution. If both people aren't equally ready for this It can only blow up in a huge mess. I have known a few people who have lived with three as a "couple" and it has never lasted long. Generally one person is left behind while two carry on together.
Don't get married because of guilt or the idea that it will solve problems in the relationship. It won't.
posted by Wendy BD at 10:30 AM on September 10, 2009
I agree with PhoBWanKenobi, "What? No. Don't go through with a pity wedding. Call off the wedding and actually be with the person you love. A husband you don't care about is a much uglier fifth limb." Very well put.
I recently went out with someone over several months and the same thing happened to me. As you put it, "I just wanted to leave, but since my fiance has been nothing but kind, loving, and supportive toward me I felt I owed it to him to stick around."
This sort of thing is not going to work. If you want to leave, you're going to leave. It's just a matter of when. I stuck around because he was so nice, but it was just awhile later until I did leave, which I noticed a few other readers here voiced the same experience.
I think it's very exciting you've found someone to love. You've said you can afford to live alone. Move out, get your own place and date the orchestra guy. See where you guys go.
I think family and friends would rather go through the minor hassle of getting refunds than attending a wedding based on such an unsure union, one that may likely end in the future. It's not very fair to them to expect them to travel so far for a wedding that they probably wouldn't want to attend if they knew the truth.
Be honest with yourself and everyone else.
posted by VC Drake at 10:33 AM on September 10, 2009
I recently went out with someone over several months and the same thing happened to me. As you put it, "I just wanted to leave, but since my fiance has been nothing but kind, loving, and supportive toward me I felt I owed it to him to stick around."
This sort of thing is not going to work. If you want to leave, you're going to leave. It's just a matter of when. I stuck around because he was so nice, but it was just awhile later until I did leave, which I noticed a few other readers here voiced the same experience.
I think it's very exciting you've found someone to love. You've said you can afford to live alone. Move out, get your own place and date the orchestra guy. See where you guys go.
I think family and friends would rather go through the minor hassle of getting refunds than attending a wedding based on such an unsure union, one that may likely end in the future. It's not very fair to them to expect them to travel so far for a wedding that they probably wouldn't want to attend if they knew the truth.
Be honest with yourself and everyone else.
posted by VC Drake at 10:33 AM on September 10, 2009
I love the way you've romanticised the fact that you cheated on your fiance!
Snark aside, that's pretty much what happened, right? You accepted a proposal to enter into a lifelong commitment with one man... and then fell in love with another man. By definition, that is cheating. Cheating is immature. You should think long and hard about your views and abilities regarding intimate relationships before you move forward with either man.
Also, this:
"It may be the case that I'm doing my S.O. no favors by staying, but he explicitly refuses to let me go, and I feel weirdly unable to just leave unless he gives me his consent to go."
I won't bother searching ask.me, but that last statement is a frequent claim of the cheater - usually a married man. Ask "the other woman," she'll tell you her married boyfriend would be with her if only the wife would give him a divorce!
I reiterate that you should think long and hard about what relationships mean to you before you continue forward. You are hurting yourself, but you are also hurting other people. You also seem to be enjoying the drama and the power a bit too much, and you might want to keep that in check.
posted by jbenben at 10:37 AM on September 10, 2009 [8 favorites]
Snark aside, that's pretty much what happened, right? You accepted a proposal to enter into a lifelong commitment with one man... and then fell in love with another man. By definition, that is cheating. Cheating is immature. You should think long and hard about your views and abilities regarding intimate relationships before you move forward with either man.
Also, this:
"It may be the case that I'm doing my S.O. no favors by staying, but he explicitly refuses to let me go, and I feel weirdly unable to just leave unless he gives me his consent to go."
I won't bother searching ask.me, but that last statement is a frequent claim of the cheater - usually a married man. Ask "the other woman," she'll tell you her married boyfriend would be with her if only the wife would give him a divorce!
I reiterate that you should think long and hard about what relationships mean to you before you continue forward. You are hurting yourself, but you are also hurting other people. You also seem to be enjoying the drama and the power a bit too much, and you might want to keep that in check.
posted by jbenben at 10:37 AM on September 10, 2009 [8 favorites]
Finally, you are also going to have to accept the guilty feelings, anger and self-loathing that comes with lying and hurting someone you love. These feelings are often put off by continuing affairs. Accept your humaness and ask forgiveness for lying to him and cheating on him.
I've read the question twice over and don't see any reference to infidelity.
I consider the following to be infidelity on the part of any person I am mongamously dating, let alone engaged to: "Well, we fell in love."
Dear OP, falling in love with another person is infidelity. I am not sure if you ever consumated that love, but emotional affairs are just that--not backing off from a person you are attracted to and following your feelings for that person rather than staying with the one that you are engaged to.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:44 AM on September 10, 2009 [12 favorites]
I've read the question twice over and don't see any reference to infidelity.
I consider the following to be infidelity on the part of any person I am mongamously dating, let alone engaged to: "Well, we fell in love."
Dear OP, falling in love with another person is infidelity. I am not sure if you ever consumated that love, but emotional affairs are just that--not backing off from a person you are attracted to and following your feelings for that person rather than staying with the one that you are engaged to.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:44 AM on September 10, 2009 [12 favorites]
Dear OP, falling in love with another person is infidelity. I am not sure if you ever consumated that love, but emotional affairs are just that--not backing off from a person you are attracted to and following your feelings for that person rather than staying with the one that you are engaged to.
Oh, bollocks. The OP, assuming she's telling the whole truth, has found the strength not to let her actions (which she can control) blindly follow her emotional weather (over which she, like all of us, has much less control). Now she needs to find the strength to go one step further and end her relationship entirely. Let's not add to the pain of this with dubious notions of "emotional affairs".
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 10:49 AM on September 10, 2009 [9 favorites]
Oh, bollocks. The OP, assuming she's telling the whole truth, has found the strength not to let her actions (which she can control) blindly follow her emotional weather (over which she, like all of us, has much less control). Now she needs to find the strength to go one step further and end her relationship entirely. Let's not add to the pain of this with dubious notions of "emotional affairs".
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 10:49 AM on September 10, 2009 [9 favorites]
Call off the wedding.
It's much more graceful to end things three months before the wedding instead of three months or three years after.
Sure, you can bury the ambivalence and smile at the wedding, but it will resurface.
posted by motsque at 10:50 AM on September 10, 2009
It's much more graceful to end things three months before the wedding instead of three months or three years after.
Sure, you can bury the ambivalence and smile at the wedding, but it will resurface.
posted by motsque at 10:50 AM on September 10, 2009
A couple of things.
Sitting around and watching DVDs with my SO sounds perfect for me, but then again you're not me. It sounds like you're in a rut and you're not happy about it, but it takes two people to fall into one of those.
It sounds like you've discussed your feelings with your SO. Is he unwilling to attempt to spark the sort of creative relationship that you're looking for? Because if so, I don't know what point there is to stick around, besides the sex (which, honestly, is not that hard to find).
Absolutely postpone the wedding. It's going to be cheaper in the long run than going through with it and then ending up unhappy and divorced.
posted by muddgirl at 10:54 AM on September 10, 2009
Sitting around and watching DVDs with my SO sounds perfect for me, but then again you're not me. It sounds like you're in a rut and you're not happy about it, but it takes two people to fall into one of those.
It sounds like you've discussed your feelings with your SO. Is he unwilling to attempt to spark the sort of creative relationship that you're looking for? Because if so, I don't know what point there is to stick around, besides the sex (which, honestly, is not that hard to find).
Absolutely postpone the wedding. It's going to be cheaper in the long run than going through with it and then ending up unhappy and divorced.
posted by muddgirl at 10:54 AM on September 10, 2009
I was Orchestra Guy once.
Since you mentioned your interest in polyamory, I will also tell you that we became polyamorous. The hubby only pretended to go along with it. It destroyed their marriage. Without downplaying the far greater pain they went through, it was also the most painful experience of my life.
Whatever you do, don't make Orchestra Guy a yo-yo. If you get married, you get into a situation in which his relationship to you can be turned on and off like a light switch, by a third party, your husband. It won't make anyone happier. Polyamory is for secure relationships, not tumultuous ones.
Time after time, when I was in Orchestra Guy's place, I wondered why polyamorous people get married. It comes with a whole raft of Forevers and Onlies and All-Sufficients that are thoroughly disproven by the divorce statistics and studies of human nature. The unrealistic expectations are a source of stress.
You know the right decision here is to not get married. Everyone who has seen your story knows it. The only person who doesn't is your fiance. Ask him, what does turning your relationship into a marriage add, that it does not provide already? Religious sanction? Legal entanglements? Each other's health insurance?
Certainly not a safeguard against risk of losing the relationship. Marriage provides very little. In fact, it often destroys perfectly good relationships. My marriage typified the usual problems. I could no longer tell whether I was staying because I wanted to or because I had to, because it no longer made a difference whether I wanted to. When there is no difference between wanting to and not wanting to, it was tough for me to tell whether it was still there.
posted by Matt Arnold at 10:56 AM on September 10, 2009 [5 favorites]
Since you mentioned your interest in polyamory, I will also tell you that we became polyamorous. The hubby only pretended to go along with it. It destroyed their marriage. Without downplaying the far greater pain they went through, it was also the most painful experience of my life.
Whatever you do, don't make Orchestra Guy a yo-yo. If you get married, you get into a situation in which his relationship to you can be turned on and off like a light switch, by a third party, your husband. It won't make anyone happier. Polyamory is for secure relationships, not tumultuous ones.
Time after time, when I was in Orchestra Guy's place, I wondered why polyamorous people get married. It comes with a whole raft of Forevers and Onlies and All-Sufficients that are thoroughly disproven by the divorce statistics and studies of human nature. The unrealistic expectations are a source of stress.
You know the right decision here is to not get married. Everyone who has seen your story knows it. The only person who doesn't is your fiance. Ask him, what does turning your relationship into a marriage add, that it does not provide already? Religious sanction? Legal entanglements? Each other's health insurance?
Certainly not a safeguard against risk of losing the relationship. Marriage provides very little. In fact, it often destroys perfectly good relationships. My marriage typified the usual problems. I could no longer tell whether I was staying because I wanted to or because I had to, because it no longer made a difference whether I wanted to. When there is no difference between wanting to and not wanting to, it was tough for me to tell whether it was still there.
posted by Matt Arnold at 10:56 AM on September 10, 2009 [5 favorites]
If you have any sense of genuine compassion for him, you will find a way to give yourself permission to break it off. If you do not have any form of compassion for him, continue your involvement.
posted by hecho de la basura at 11:00 AM on September 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by hecho de la basura at 11:00 AM on September 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
has found the strength not to let her actions (which she can control) blindly follow her emotional weather (over which she, like all of us, has much less control).
I've read the question twice over and don't see any reference to the OP having found the strength not to let her actions blindly follow her emotional weather.
My point is simple. Some people believe that falling in love with some one or having an emotional affair with some one is not cheating. Others do. Our differing opinions on the matter aside, I think the OP should know that this is not a matter of emotional weather. This is a matter of not getting out of the rain when you know you should. Allowing a crush on someone else to grow into full-on romantic love with someone other than your fiance is an action. Being fully aware of that is going to be critical, spacewaitress, to not only your understanding of what is happening here, but how you will deal with future incidents of crushes when you are with whomever.
In other words, you have had many, many chances, dear OP, to not engage Orchestra Guy when you knew you were developing feelings for him and he might be developing feelings for you. When that happens, you need to make a hard choice. You either dump the fiance and continue with Orchestra Guy, or you dump Orchestra Guy and stick with Fiance. The nature of your promise to Fiance is the problem here, not the "emotional weather" you face. It sounds like Fiance made a perfectly normal assumption that your promise to be faithful to him also included not falling in mutual love with others.
Your failure to make that hard choice then has made this choice much, much harder.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:03 AM on September 10, 2009 [6 favorites]
I've read the question twice over and don't see any reference to the OP having found the strength not to let her actions blindly follow her emotional weather.
My point is simple. Some people believe that falling in love with some one or having an emotional affair with some one is not cheating. Others do. Our differing opinions on the matter aside, I think the OP should know that this is not a matter of emotional weather. This is a matter of not getting out of the rain when you know you should. Allowing a crush on someone else to grow into full-on romantic love with someone other than your fiance is an action. Being fully aware of that is going to be critical, spacewaitress, to not only your understanding of what is happening here, but how you will deal with future incidents of crushes when you are with whomever.
In other words, you have had many, many chances, dear OP, to not engage Orchestra Guy when you knew you were developing feelings for him and he might be developing feelings for you. When that happens, you need to make a hard choice. You either dump the fiance and continue with Orchestra Guy, or you dump Orchestra Guy and stick with Fiance. The nature of your promise to Fiance is the problem here, not the "emotional weather" you face. It sounds like Fiance made a perfectly normal assumption that your promise to be faithful to him also included not falling in mutual love with others.
Your failure to make that hard choice then has made this choice much, much harder.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:03 AM on September 10, 2009 [6 favorites]
I may be too close to this to comment. Mods, I encourage you to delete this if I'm going too far. I can't feel if my filter is right on this one. I've tried really really hard.
My wife left me in very similar circumstances to what you describe. She is from all other accounts a good person. She's thoughtful of others, she's courteous. And I hate her with a passion for nearly destroying my life. The phrase "hockey beating" exits my mouth when I hear mutual friends mention what a douche (those are their words - not mine) the guy she left me for is. I am happily remarried with a todler and two dogs and none of that anger will pass. The end of our relationship financially put me back to square one, put me through therapy and otherwise made me realize what a cold heartless and self centered (insert explative here) she was. Yes, I am better off without her, but only because I found out what kind of person she was at her true core.
I saved every penny possible for us to have a house, two weeks before we had our pre-approval letter and were looking at taking the next step. I slaved to make a substancial downpayment appear in one year's time - even with her persuing her interests (to the tune of 10-20% of our income), and she walked out. I took every opportunity for us to spend time together. I gave up a career I loved because she pointed out that I couldn't simultaneously love food in the manner I did and be a good father (later on she told me she didn't want to have kids - ever). Meanwhile she took every opportunity to ignore our relationship - all the while telling me that I was the one not nurturing her.
Seriously though: Don't stay with him if you are not in love. Let him go now. Couples counciling will probably only delay you saying this to him. Make sure he has family and friends and good support. Cut all direct contact. NEVER speak to him again. He will hate you more than the heat from 10,000 suns, but you will actually be thinking of him by doing so. Be honest in your finances and repay him for what he has put forth for your wedding, return the ring to him and understand that maybe maybe someday that you will be someone he can forgive.
Clearly you aren't ready to get married. Take your inability to control your emotions as the logical warning. Take your inability to own up to how you feel to your husband as another warning. Your husband deserves better and honestly, so does orchestra guy. If you think this is painful for you, this will be much more painful to your husband. By demonstration, you now lack any moral ground to stand on.
posted by Nanukthedog at 11:14 AM on September 10, 2009 [13 favorites]
My wife left me in very similar circumstances to what you describe. She is from all other accounts a good person. She's thoughtful of others, she's courteous. And I hate her with a passion for nearly destroying my life. The phrase "hockey beating" exits my mouth when I hear mutual friends mention what a douche (those are their words - not mine) the guy she left me for is. I am happily remarried with a todler and two dogs and none of that anger will pass. The end of our relationship financially put me back to square one, put me through therapy and otherwise made me realize what a cold heartless and self centered (insert explative here) she was. Yes, I am better off without her, but only because I found out what kind of person she was at her true core.
I saved every penny possible for us to have a house, two weeks before we had our pre-approval letter and were looking at taking the next step. I slaved to make a substancial downpayment appear in one year's time - even with her persuing her interests (to the tune of 10-20% of our income), and she walked out. I took every opportunity for us to spend time together. I gave up a career I loved because she pointed out that I couldn't simultaneously love food in the manner I did and be a good father (later on she told me she didn't want to have kids - ever). Meanwhile she took every opportunity to ignore our relationship - all the while telling me that I was the one not nurturing her.
Seriously though: Don't stay with him if you are not in love. Let him go now. Couples counciling will probably only delay you saying this to him. Make sure he has family and friends and good support. Cut all direct contact. NEVER speak to him again. He will hate you more than the heat from 10,000 suns, but you will actually be thinking of him by doing so. Be honest in your finances and repay him for what he has put forth for your wedding, return the ring to him and understand that maybe maybe someday that you will be someone he can forgive.
Clearly you aren't ready to get married. Take your inability to control your emotions as the logical warning. Take your inability to own up to how you feel to your husband as another warning. Your husband deserves better and honestly, so does orchestra guy. If you think this is painful for you, this will be much more painful to your husband. By demonstration, you now lack any moral ground to stand on.
posted by Nanukthedog at 11:14 AM on September 10, 2009 [13 favorites]
I think first and foremost, you should call off the wedding. Not to say that you won't get married in the future,
While you do need to call off the wedding, understand it's also almost certainly the end of the relationship.
Your feelings for O.G. sound very similar to your feelings for your fiance when you first met: rushed, overwhelming, idealized. If this is a pattern for you, you probably shouldn't be in relationships at all until you figure yourself out. It's possible no one else is going to make you happy right now.
posted by spaltavian at 11:34 AM on September 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
While you do need to call off the wedding, understand it's also almost certainly the end of the relationship.
Your feelings for O.G. sound very similar to your feelings for your fiance when you first met: rushed, overwhelming, idealized. If this is a pattern for you, you probably shouldn't be in relationships at all until you figure yourself out. It's possible no one else is going to make you happy right now.
posted by spaltavian at 11:34 AM on September 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
I'm posting this as myself because my S.O. doesn't read ask.mefi, and even if he does, he's aware of the problem anyway.
Does this mean your SO does read other parts of mefi? If so, I feel like the OP is already halfway out the door. I wonder if the real reason she didn’t post this q anonymously is because she was hoping the fiancé will find it, read the group response, and realize it’s over without her actually having to confront him about it.
But yeah. It’s over. Kudos to you for realizing it while there is still time
posted by Think_Long at 11:56 AM on September 10, 2009
Does this mean your SO does read other parts of mefi? If so, I feel like the OP is already halfway out the door. I wonder if the real reason she didn’t post this q anonymously is because she was hoping the fiancé will find it, read the group response, and realize it’s over without her actually having to confront him about it.
But yeah. It’s over. Kudos to you for realizing it while there is still time
posted by Think_Long at 11:56 AM on September 10, 2009
So, I think one interpretation of your question is, what's the reasoning behind the advice that if you're not sure, you shouldn't get married?
The way I think of it is that your relationship will never be simpler than it is now. I know that sounds ridiculous, because things are very complicated with Orchestra Guy and him loving you and not wanting you to go, and you wanting polyamory and he not, but in the end, these are all complications either you or he has brought into the relationship. They're not the external pressures that are so common to married life -- for example, a parent dies, and one spouse sinks into extended grief; a spouse loses a job and can't find another; a baby comes along and changes life entirely. Those things are challenging. A strong union weathers them well, each partner supporting the other, but a weak one makes them all so much harder.
That's, I think, why people say you should be absolutely sure you want to get married. Because if you're not sure now, when you're just talking about how you and he get along when you're both able to give your best, you're going to have a whole boatload of trouble later, when things get tough.
posted by palliser at 12:04 PM on September 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
The way I think of it is that your relationship will never be simpler than it is now. I know that sounds ridiculous, because things are very complicated with Orchestra Guy and him loving you and not wanting you to go, and you wanting polyamory and he not, but in the end, these are all complications either you or he has brought into the relationship. They're not the external pressures that are so common to married life -- for example, a parent dies, and one spouse sinks into extended grief; a spouse loses a job and can't find another; a baby comes along and changes life entirely. Those things are challenging. A strong union weathers them well, each partner supporting the other, but a weak one makes them all so much harder.
That's, I think, why people say you should be absolutely sure you want to get married. Because if you're not sure now, when you're just talking about how you and he get along when you're both able to give your best, you're going to have a whole boatload of trouble later, when things get tough.
posted by palliser at 12:04 PM on September 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
I've seen him go through a tremendous amount of growth in the past few weeks.
It is not my intention to sound sarcastic, but are you very young?
Your fiance sounds desperate. Whether or not he wanted to take music lessons all along it sounds like he decided to do so once you threatened to leave. I feel bad for him. He loves you, or thinks he does, and is desperate to hold onto a woman that is ambivalent.
I think it's naive to think if decent and kind, and once loved, fiance does XYZ, you'll be happy. Either you love the man for who he is, or you don't. Trying to change people or wishing people were something else is absurd. I get the feeling that even if he does try to 'improve' for you, you'll resent it and won't be satisfied.
As you're aware, discontentment comes from within. You are disrupting your own peace and happiness by thinking if you just had a man that was like this, or like that, you would be happy. I've been down that road midway through a relationship. I wanted him to be someone he wasn't. Fortunately I realized I had a wonderful person that loved me (and loved me just as I was) but I was blinded by my own unhappiness and self-inflicted discontentment to realize that.
Face the fact that you'll probably be labeled the bad guy for this. Waiting for his blessing to leave is selfish and cruel. You fell in love with another person. You want to leave a relationship. You'll have to deal with the consequences. It's not going to be pretty. You can't wrap this is a pretty bow and leave guilt-free with everyone remaining friends.
And unless you want to look like a complete heal, I would plan on reimbursing airplane fares.
posted by Fairchild at 12:12 PM on September 10, 2009 [7 favorites]
It is not my intention to sound sarcastic, but are you very young?
Your fiance sounds desperate. Whether or not he wanted to take music lessons all along it sounds like he decided to do so once you threatened to leave. I feel bad for him. He loves you, or thinks he does, and is desperate to hold onto a woman that is ambivalent.
I think it's naive to think if decent and kind, and once loved, fiance does XYZ, you'll be happy. Either you love the man for who he is, or you don't. Trying to change people or wishing people were something else is absurd. I get the feeling that even if he does try to 'improve' for you, you'll resent it and won't be satisfied.
As you're aware, discontentment comes from within. You are disrupting your own peace and happiness by thinking if you just had a man that was like this, or like that, you would be happy. I've been down that road midway through a relationship. I wanted him to be someone he wasn't. Fortunately I realized I had a wonderful person that loved me (and loved me just as I was) but I was blinded by my own unhappiness and self-inflicted discontentment to realize that.
Face the fact that you'll probably be labeled the bad guy for this. Waiting for his blessing to leave is selfish and cruel. You fell in love with another person. You want to leave a relationship. You'll have to deal with the consequences. It's not going to be pretty. You can't wrap this is a pretty bow and leave guilt-free with everyone remaining friends.
And unless you want to look like a complete heal, I would plan on reimbursing airplane fares.
posted by Fairchild at 12:12 PM on September 10, 2009 [7 favorites]
Your fiance is a monogamously-inclined person, and you're taking hope in his saying that maybe in the future he'd be willing to try polyamory? Please, please don't believe him, for his sake: precisely because he's monogamously-inclined he would say anything to keep you right now. As a monogamously-inclined person myself, trust me. He's had it in his head that you're the one for him, the one he's going to spend his life with, you're getting married -- it's very hard to let go of that. Even people who are normally quite emotionally strong will go through that moment of weakness where they can't see past losing "the love of their life."
If you marry him, you're going to keep hurting him -- not intentionally -- by wanting something else. He's going to keep upsetting you, or making you feel guilty -- intentionally or unintentionally -- by not letting you have what you want. You will not be fulfilled, and neither will he. You cannot marry him. It would be cruel, and it would be bad for both of you.
Dealing with the wedding is going to be awkward and awful, and I'm so sorry you have to go through it. But it's better than the alternative. Don't sign up for years of suffering because you can't bring yourself to suffer temporarily right now. Good luck, and remember: you are not a bad person for having to do this. Relationships often don't work out, and you have been honest. It's hard to call off a wedding with no one getting hurt, but it's necessary. Marrying him when you heart isn't in it, on the other hand, would be cowardly and unnecessarily cruel.
posted by Nattie at 12:32 PM on September 10, 2009 [4 favorites]
If you marry him, you're going to keep hurting him -- not intentionally -- by wanting something else. He's going to keep upsetting you, or making you feel guilty -- intentionally or unintentionally -- by not letting you have what you want. You will not be fulfilled, and neither will he. You cannot marry him. It would be cruel, and it would be bad for both of you.
Dealing with the wedding is going to be awkward and awful, and I'm so sorry you have to go through it. But it's better than the alternative. Don't sign up for years of suffering because you can't bring yourself to suffer temporarily right now. Good luck, and remember: you are not a bad person for having to do this. Relationships often don't work out, and you have been honest. It's hard to call off a wedding with no one getting hurt, but it's necessary. Marrying him when you heart isn't in it, on the other hand, would be cowardly and unnecessarily cruel.
posted by Nattie at 12:32 PM on September 10, 2009 [4 favorites]
To start with, getting married because your friends have already bought plane tickets is kind of stupid. Second, is there any reason to think viola dude isn't just the new hotness, whose charm will pass? I'd also be mindful of dudes who are cool with breaking up an existing couple. Not that it's all on him: you've been testing the waters with some new person while engaged. So there's some dishonesty to go around I suppose. I think you've made the situation way more complicated than it should be by not calling things off sooner, prior to meeting dude number 2.
posted by chunking express at 12:40 PM on September 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by chunking express at 12:40 PM on September 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
"I'd also be mindful of dudes who are cool with breaking up an existing couple."
This. Leave your fiance; you don't love him. But the other guy is no prize.
posted by coolguymichael at 1:27 PM on September 10, 2009 [5 favorites]
This. Leave your fiance; you don't love him. But the other guy is no prize.
posted by coolguymichael at 1:27 PM on September 10, 2009 [5 favorites]
I think some people have dabbled in the spirit of my answer...
Orchestra-Guy (OG) is new and exciting! Your guy is that worn pair of jeans that you wear almost every day, nothing special, but you love 'em. What'll OG be when in three years when you take up a new hobby that he doesn't participate in? Yup...another worn pair of jeans.
Don't get married...yet...but don't immediately throw out that comfortable pair of jeans just yet. Any new pair you buy might not compare after the break-in period...
posted by teg4rvn at 1:39 PM on September 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
Orchestra-Guy (OG) is new and exciting! Your guy is that worn pair of jeans that you wear almost every day, nothing special, but you love 'em. What'll OG be when in three years when you take up a new hobby that he doesn't participate in? Yup...another worn pair of jeans.
Don't get married...yet...but don't immediately throw out that comfortable pair of jeans just yet. Any new pair you buy might not compare after the break-in period...
posted by teg4rvn at 1:39 PM on September 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
Definitely call off the wedding. Save yourself the trouble, save your friends and family the airfare.
Now, what I'm wondering about your fiance is, is he naturally a creative guy who kind of just fell into a rut, or is he trying for the sake of your relationship? This is crucially important. If he's not naturally creative (and a lot of us aren't), he won't be able to sustain this effort. Since you pretty much expect a creative partner in a spouse, I would echo the many calls to let him go.
On the other hand, maybe he just fell into a rut, and this sort of jolt is what's necessary to get you guys back on track. Consider some couples counseling, and keep inspiring each other. Orchestra guy really is a red herring in all of this, something that is appealing more because he represents a break from the ordinary than a real potential partner.
Finally, do some introspection. Do you want to leave the fiance, or do you want a relationship with him, but with the creativity you're currently seeing? If you don't want him, leave him now rather than stringing him along. If you do want him, then make it clear what you need from him to make the relationship work, but also realize he needs your support to keep him inspired and motivated.
Good luck to you no matter what you choose.
posted by explosion at 1:51 PM on September 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Now, what I'm wondering about your fiance is, is he naturally a creative guy who kind of just fell into a rut, or is he trying for the sake of your relationship? This is crucially important. If he's not naturally creative (and a lot of us aren't), he won't be able to sustain this effort. Since you pretty much expect a creative partner in a spouse, I would echo the many calls to let him go.
On the other hand, maybe he just fell into a rut, and this sort of jolt is what's necessary to get you guys back on track. Consider some couples counseling, and keep inspiring each other. Orchestra guy really is a red herring in all of this, something that is appealing more because he represents a break from the ordinary than a real potential partner.
Finally, do some introspection. Do you want to leave the fiance, or do you want a relationship with him, but with the creativity you're currently seeing? If you don't want him, leave him now rather than stringing him along. If you do want him, then make it clear what you need from him to make the relationship work, but also realize he needs your support to keep him inspired and motivated.
Good luck to you no matter what you choose.
posted by explosion at 1:51 PM on September 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Some questions require nuanced answers and some questions simply don't. Um, no way in hell you should get married under these circumstances.
posted by bananafish at 3:09 PM on September 10, 2009
posted by bananafish at 3:09 PM on September 10, 2009
And unless you want to look like a complete heal, I would plan on reimbursing airplane fares.
"Heel."
And fuck the airfares in this case. First of all, almost everyone will be able to get vouchers, if not refunds, with this much lead time.
Second of all, nobody you know would rather fly to Mexico and watch you make a disastrous marriage than lose a bit of money. I can guarantee that.
Third of all, people can go to Mexico and do things other than watch you get married if they can't get vouchers or refunds. If your wedding was planned for a cool vacation spot, they can find other things to do.
Fourth of all, giving the airfares even a second of airtime in your head is distracting you from the complete insanity of getting married when you don't want to get married--when, in fact, you want to leave your fiance and have a relationship with someone else.
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:21 PM on September 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
"Heel."
And fuck the airfares in this case. First of all, almost everyone will be able to get vouchers, if not refunds, with this much lead time.
Second of all, nobody you know would rather fly to Mexico and watch you make a disastrous marriage than lose a bit of money. I can guarantee that.
Third of all, people can go to Mexico and do things other than watch you get married if they can't get vouchers or refunds. If your wedding was planned for a cool vacation spot, they can find other things to do.
Fourth of all, giving the airfares even a second of airtime in your head is distracting you from the complete insanity of getting married when you don't want to get married--when, in fact, you want to leave your fiance and have a relationship with someone else.
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:21 PM on September 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
Follow your instincts. I wish I had done so. Marriage is not to be trifled with. It's easy to get into and much more difficult to get out of. I wish you the best of luck. It sounds like you already know what to do.
posted by wv kay in ga at 7:00 PM on September 10, 2009
posted by wv kay in ga at 7:00 PM on September 10, 2009
Just want to join, "Don't get married for everyone else". Don't get married because you have deposits down. Don't get married because you don't want to disappoint people. Don't get married because they've already bought tickets. People who love you (i.e. people who are willing to fly to Mexico for your wedding) are going to be so much happier that you're brave enough to postpone / call off the wedding rather than go ahead with it and divorce within six months. I guarantee it will be more expensive to go through a divorce than to not go through the wedding.
posted by Lady Li at 10:58 PM on September 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Lady Li at 10:58 PM on September 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Best answer: If things were fantastic with CurrentGuy when you first met, expect that if you don't make major changes to the way you behave in the future, this is the same way things will go with OrchestraGuy. I'm not saying this from a critical standpoint, I'm saying this from the standpoint of someone who's had this happen myself. You are the common factor. You got bored and you started looking elsewhere. You will do it again.
That said, stop looking at them as the same issue. They aren't.
CurrentGuy has priority. He was there first. You made a commitment. Try to forget for a few minutes about how you feel about OrchestraGuy. Pretend he doesn't exist. Pretend he just got raptured five minutes ago or something, whatever. Do you love the guy you said you would marry? Love, currently. Right now. Do you care about him? Do you have warm feelings for him?
The feelings you have for OrchestraGuy are a smokescreen. All they can do is obscure the real issue. One of two things is true:
1. You really do love CurrentGuy and the brand new feelings for OrchestraGuy are just overwhelming that--in which case you need to ditch OrchestraGuy, because you really will get bored with him. Spend time in counseling with CurrentGuy and make a genuine effort to patch things up. It will always be easier to move on to the next fun thing, but if you were ever the sort of person who wanted to get married, this is not going to make you happy.
2. You don't really love CurrentGuy anymore. This would be true with or without OrchestraGuy. In this case, if it's really irreperable, you should leave. You probably still shouldn't directly get togther with OrchestraGuy, because he's the rebound. See if he's still around and interested after you're on your own for six months. If it's meant to be, he will be.
But mostly, the big thing is that you need to stop right now thinking that things will be better with OrchestraGuy because they seem better right now. They're always going to seem better at first than they will three years in. You're trying to compare apples to oranges. Stop. If the new guy really does care about you, he will care enough to give you the space you need to settle your current situation first.
posted by larkspur at 3:19 AM on September 11, 2009 [4 favorites]
That said, stop looking at them as the same issue. They aren't.
CurrentGuy has priority. He was there first. You made a commitment. Try to forget for a few minutes about how you feel about OrchestraGuy. Pretend he doesn't exist. Pretend he just got raptured five minutes ago or something, whatever. Do you love the guy you said you would marry? Love, currently. Right now. Do you care about him? Do you have warm feelings for him?
The feelings you have for OrchestraGuy are a smokescreen. All they can do is obscure the real issue. One of two things is true:
1. You really do love CurrentGuy and the brand new feelings for OrchestraGuy are just overwhelming that--in which case you need to ditch OrchestraGuy, because you really will get bored with him. Spend time in counseling with CurrentGuy and make a genuine effort to patch things up. It will always be easier to move on to the next fun thing, but if you were ever the sort of person who wanted to get married, this is not going to make you happy.
2. You don't really love CurrentGuy anymore. This would be true with or without OrchestraGuy. In this case, if it's really irreperable, you should leave. You probably still shouldn't directly get togther with OrchestraGuy, because he's the rebound. See if he's still around and interested after you're on your own for six months. If it's meant to be, he will be.
But mostly, the big thing is that you need to stop right now thinking that things will be better with OrchestraGuy because they seem better right now. They're always going to seem better at first than they will three years in. You're trying to compare apples to oranges. Stop. If the new guy really does care about you, he will care enough to give you the space you need to settle your current situation first.
posted by larkspur at 3:19 AM on September 11, 2009 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you everyone.
For the time being, I have asked Orchestra Guy to stop pursuing me.
Thank you to everyone who pointed out to me that the plane tickets aren't as big of a deal as I was making them out to be, compared to the question of getting married.
And thank you to everyone who pointed out that my relationship with my fiance and my relationship with O.G. are two separate issues.
My fiance made an appointment for us to see a therapist. We saw her yesterday and it was very illuminating. We're going to continue to see her every week. I still feel ambivalent about getting married. I may call it off.
On the other hand, I don't really feel right about leaving my fiance right now. I still do love him and care about him, and especially now while we're going through counseling, I don't feel like it's the right time to leave him. I've asked O.G. to leave me alone for a while so I can do right by my relationship with my fiance.
There's a lot more here that I haven't talked about. I'm torn between going into more detail and just stopping here and thanking everyone for the mostly good advice they've given. The consensus here is that I should just leave, but I really do feel like I owe it to the relationship to give it a fair chance. Like, the house is on fire, but I'm not just gonna leave it with all the stuff inside we've worked on together over the past three years. I'm going to try to put out the fire first.
posted by spacewaitress at 6:38 AM on September 11, 2009
For the time being, I have asked Orchestra Guy to stop pursuing me.
Thank you to everyone who pointed out to me that the plane tickets aren't as big of a deal as I was making them out to be, compared to the question of getting married.
And thank you to everyone who pointed out that my relationship with my fiance and my relationship with O.G. are two separate issues.
My fiance made an appointment for us to see a therapist. We saw her yesterday and it was very illuminating. We're going to continue to see her every week. I still feel ambivalent about getting married. I may call it off.
On the other hand, I don't really feel right about leaving my fiance right now. I still do love him and care about him, and especially now while we're going through counseling, I don't feel like it's the right time to leave him. I've asked O.G. to leave me alone for a while so I can do right by my relationship with my fiance.
There's a lot more here that I haven't talked about. I'm torn between going into more detail and just stopping here and thanking everyone for the mostly good advice they've given. The consensus here is that I should just leave, but I really do feel like I owe it to the relationship to give it a fair chance. Like, the house is on fire, but I'm not just gonna leave it with all the stuff inside we've worked on together over the past three years. I'm going to try to put out the fire first.
posted by spacewaitress at 6:38 AM on September 11, 2009
I've asked O.G. to leave me alone for a while so I can do right by my relationship with my fiance.
A quick suggestion. If you are going to try and make this thing work, you need to say goodbye to OG forever. That's the price of what you are doing. Accepting that will help you both get through this. From my perspective, I don't see how I could have the feeling of trust necessary to go forward if the person I was dating would only commit to a temporary cessation of contact with OG. Otherwise, what is to prevent the feelings from rushing back? I advise that you keep Fiance fully informed about these decisions on your part regarding OG and your contact with him--Fiance needs full disclosure to make the tough decisions he has to make.
Having said all of that I wish Fiance and you all the luck in the world.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:00 AM on September 11, 2009 [7 favorites]
A quick suggestion. If you are going to try and make this thing work, you need to say goodbye to OG forever. That's the price of what you are doing. Accepting that will help you both get through this. From my perspective, I don't see how I could have the feeling of trust necessary to go forward if the person I was dating would only commit to a temporary cessation of contact with OG. Otherwise, what is to prevent the feelings from rushing back? I advise that you keep Fiance fully informed about these decisions on your part regarding OG and your contact with him--Fiance needs full disclosure to make the tough decisions he has to make.
Having said all of that I wish Fiance and you all the luck in the world.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:00 AM on September 11, 2009 [7 favorites]
We're going to continue to see her every week. I still feel ambivalent about getting married. I may call it off.
On the other hand, I don't really feel right about leaving my fiance right now.
You missed one huge major point in the advice people have given and that is that
calling off your wedding
and
leaving your current guy
are two completely separate actions. In the state you're in, you most definitely without a doubt need to call off the wedding. You can still stay with your current guy and work on the relationship and have a wedding latter when you learn that the word "ambivalent" has no place in marriage plans. You don't need to call of the wedding AND leave him, doing both at the same time.
posted by WeekendJen at 9:06 AM on September 11, 2009 [2 favorites]
On the other hand, I don't really feel right about leaving my fiance right now.
You missed one huge major point in the advice people have given and that is that
calling off your wedding
and
leaving your current guy
are two completely separate actions. In the state you're in, you most definitely without a doubt need to call off the wedding. You can still stay with your current guy and work on the relationship and have a wedding latter when you learn that the word "ambivalent" has no place in marriage plans. You don't need to call of the wedding AND leave him, doing both at the same time.
posted by WeekendJen at 9:06 AM on September 11, 2009 [2 favorites]
I beg and I plead you: If you do not find yourself falling head over heels in love with your fiance, do not marry him.
I seriously wish the two of you the best luck with counciling.
posted by Nanukthedog at 10:50 AM on September 11, 2009 [2 favorites]
I seriously wish the two of you the best luck with counciling.
posted by Nanukthedog at 10:50 AM on September 11, 2009 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: WeekendJen,
Thanks. I guess I wrote my response rather clumsily. What you're suggesting is what I'm pretty sure we'll do. After counseling yesterday, my fiance even suggested we put off some parts of the wedding planning (like sending out paper invites, which we haven't done yet).
posted by spacewaitress at 12:18 PM on September 11, 2009
Thanks. I guess I wrote my response rather clumsily. What you're suggesting is what I'm pretty sure we'll do. After counseling yesterday, my fiance even suggested we put off some parts of the wedding planning (like sending out paper invites, which we haven't done yet).
posted by spacewaitress at 12:18 PM on September 11, 2009
I don't think therapy is going to help you value what you have with your fiance more; it's not going to actually commit you to the relationship, even if you show up at the counselor's office at the same time every week. What do you expect to have happen? What do you envision being the outcome, if you could choose any outcome in the whole world?
I think you need to end the engagement, move out, and own up to it. You're going to end up hurting your fiance in the long run and just because he doesn't know what's good for him, doesn't mean that you shouldn't do the right thing.
The right thing is to leave him.
posted by anniecat at 1:16 PM on September 12, 2009 [3 favorites]
I think you need to end the engagement, move out, and own up to it. You're going to end up hurting your fiance in the long run and just because he doesn't know what's good for him, doesn't mean that you shouldn't do the right thing.
The right thing is to leave him.
posted by anniecat at 1:16 PM on September 12, 2009 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by NoraReed at 9:41 AM on September 10, 2009