Is this wrongful termination? Do I have a lawsuit here?
August 9, 2009 7:10 PM Subscribe
Is this wrongful termination? My boss fires me out of the blue after 4 years of great reviews RIGHT BEFORE THE COMPANY IS ABOUT TO MAKE HUGE MONEY?!
I worked for a dotcom startup for 4 years. I was the only employee who had been there that long. I was a VP of sales, and the only person who could sign on bank accounts, etc. My boss loved me and gave me nothing but great reviews. In May of 2006, she announced that, as a raise, she was giving me a company car. I was ecstatic! Then her CEO embezzled money and she almost lost the entire company. I worked by her side tirelessly, just the two of us, and we somehow were able to get the company to no just survive, it THRIVED. She kept promising she would get me that company car. Finally, in February of 2008, I got it! She leased it in the company name and I had to trade in my car for the downpayment. She only wanted to pay $300 a month, and the payments were $375, so I took a $75 a month paycut so that I would essentially be paying the extra $75 a month. She pays the registration and insurance and it's a 3 year lease.
Now the company is winning countless awards and all our hard work is finally paying off. We went from only 1 employee (me) to 20. the company is going to be in INC magazine's top 500 fastest growing companies *(determined by the company's sales from 2005-2008--basically, all MY sales) and it's a huuuuuge deal in our industry.
2 months ago, my boss gave me a raise out of the blue and told me I was doing an amazing job.
Last week, she called me into a strange office (not located at our company office) and fired me. She gave a myriad of BS reason (your sales aren't high enough, you love the company too much--you take everything personally, this is what will make you happy). My BFF at the company wanted me out--guess she was threatened becasue I'm been there so long. She started feeding my boss info, like the fact that I privately told her I've been hating my job.
They want me to sign something their lawyer drew up, and they are only giving me 2 weeks pay, $1500 for the car I traded in towards the company car, the company car until Oct 31st, and health insurance until the end of the year. I just switched to a new health insurance plan through work that has a $3k deductible because I just discovered I have health problems (seizures) and the testing (MRIs, EEGs) is soooo expensive. So the 2 weeks pay is just going to cover my deductible. I'm screwed. And they are about to make soooooo much money at that company from all my hard work. Also, in 2006 my boss told me she was giving me a percentage of the company for my loyalty in sticking by her during the embezzlement and ensuing craziness. I never got it in writing, and when I email her and ask about it, she tells me she can't talk now. She's trying to scew me out of that too.
I haven't signed anything, and I haven't cashed the check she gave me. Do I have a wrongful termination suit here? My friend's dad thinks I should be able to negotiate a better severance package (like having the car until the end of the 3 year lease). I went to a "successful termination" class at my boss's lawyers office once to learn how to fire our employees so we couldn't get sued later. They said you have to give someone a bad review, put something in their file showing what they've done wrong so you "build a case" for firing them. There is absolutely nothing in my file. every review over the past 4 years has been about how great I am. Never once did she say my sales were low until she fired me.
I live in california. I'm in LA, so I feel like I should have access to some good legal advice. I'd like to get a lawyer, but I don't have any money unless I cash that check she gave me.
Any thoughts on how to proceed? Do you think I have a case? If so, how do I get a lawyer to fight her $400/hour Beverly Hills Lawyers? How long will this go on for?
Not sure if this helps any, but she sent around an email to all the employees saying I left the company "to pursue my own thing". Of course no one believes it and they know how long I've been with the company, so they think it's something serious, like I embezzled money or did something horribly unethical to get fired.
Thanks for any advice you can give.
I worked for a dotcom startup for 4 years. I was the only employee who had been there that long. I was a VP of sales, and the only person who could sign on bank accounts, etc. My boss loved me and gave me nothing but great reviews. In May of 2006, she announced that, as a raise, she was giving me a company car. I was ecstatic! Then her CEO embezzled money and she almost lost the entire company. I worked by her side tirelessly, just the two of us, and we somehow were able to get the company to no just survive, it THRIVED. She kept promising she would get me that company car. Finally, in February of 2008, I got it! She leased it in the company name and I had to trade in my car for the downpayment. She only wanted to pay $300 a month, and the payments were $375, so I took a $75 a month paycut so that I would essentially be paying the extra $75 a month. She pays the registration and insurance and it's a 3 year lease.
Now the company is winning countless awards and all our hard work is finally paying off. We went from only 1 employee (me) to 20. the company is going to be in INC magazine's top 500 fastest growing companies *(determined by the company's sales from 2005-2008--basically, all MY sales) and it's a huuuuuge deal in our industry.
2 months ago, my boss gave me a raise out of the blue and told me I was doing an amazing job.
Last week, she called me into a strange office (not located at our company office) and fired me. She gave a myriad of BS reason (your sales aren't high enough, you love the company too much--you take everything personally, this is what will make you happy). My BFF at the company wanted me out--guess she was threatened becasue I'm been there so long. She started feeding my boss info, like the fact that I privately told her I've been hating my job.
They want me to sign something their lawyer drew up, and they are only giving me 2 weeks pay, $1500 for the car I traded in towards the company car, the company car until Oct 31st, and health insurance until the end of the year. I just switched to a new health insurance plan through work that has a $3k deductible because I just discovered I have health problems (seizures) and the testing (MRIs, EEGs) is soooo expensive. So the 2 weeks pay is just going to cover my deductible. I'm screwed. And they are about to make soooooo much money at that company from all my hard work. Also, in 2006 my boss told me she was giving me a percentage of the company for my loyalty in sticking by her during the embezzlement and ensuing craziness. I never got it in writing, and when I email her and ask about it, she tells me she can't talk now. She's trying to scew me out of that too.
I haven't signed anything, and I haven't cashed the check she gave me. Do I have a wrongful termination suit here? My friend's dad thinks I should be able to negotiate a better severance package (like having the car until the end of the 3 year lease). I went to a "successful termination" class at my boss's lawyers office once to learn how to fire our employees so we couldn't get sued later. They said you have to give someone a bad review, put something in their file showing what they've done wrong so you "build a case" for firing them. There is absolutely nothing in my file. every review over the past 4 years has been about how great I am. Never once did she say my sales were low until she fired me.
I live in california. I'm in LA, so I feel like I should have access to some good legal advice. I'd like to get a lawyer, but I don't have any money unless I cash that check she gave me.
Any thoughts on how to proceed? Do you think I have a case? If so, how do I get a lawyer to fight her $400/hour Beverly Hills Lawyers? How long will this go on for?
Not sure if this helps any, but she sent around an email to all the employees saying I left the company "to pursue my own thing". Of course no one believes it and they know how long I've been with the company, so they think it's something serious, like I embezzled money or did something horribly unethical to get fired.
Thanks for any advice you can give.
This post was deleted for the following reason: At posters request -- mathowie
IANAL. But I believe you are screwed unless you have a contract. Most employment in the United States is "at will," meaning that your employer can fire you for no reason at all, unless you are in a protected class and can prove discrimination.
posted by Wordwoman at 7:20 PM on August 9, 2009
posted by Wordwoman at 7:20 PM on August 9, 2009
>I live in california.
California is an "at-will" state. You can be terminated for any reason, but in these circumstances you'll be eligible for unemployment benefits through EDD since you were not fired for adequate cause.
From what you've written here your employment arrangement was excessively casual, but you should have learned a lot and be able to do the same again for another, better employer.
Good luck.
posted by @troy at 7:22 PM on August 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
California is an "at-will" state. You can be terminated for any reason, but in these circumstances you'll be eligible for unemployment benefits through EDD since you were not fired for adequate cause.
From what you've written here your employment arrangement was excessively casual, but you should have learned a lot and be able to do the same again for another, better employer.
Good luck.
posted by @troy at 7:22 PM on August 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: wordwoman, that successful terminations class taught me differently. you have to build a case to show you have reason to fire someone, you can't just fire them out of the blue.
posted by secretsecret at 7:22 PM on August 9, 2009
posted by secretsecret at 7:22 PM on August 9, 2009
You may be able to get a lawyer to take this on contingency. And IANAL. Talk to a lawyer. The first meeting's generally free even if it's not a contingency case.
I am pretty sure that if you are an "at will" employee then you can be terminated at will. They don't need to give you a reason.
This is why you need a contract. Always have an employment contract. If you don't have one, and times become tough, insist on one if you're going to stick it out. Always get everything in writing. If they don't plan to screw you, they won't have a problem with giving you a contract.
posted by musofire at 7:23 PM on August 9, 2009
I am pretty sure that if you are an "at will" employee then you can be terminated at will. They don't need to give you a reason.
This is why you need a contract. Always have an employment contract. If you don't have one, and times become tough, insist on one if you're going to stick it out. Always get everything in writing. If they don't plan to screw you, they won't have a problem with giving you a contract.
posted by musofire at 7:23 PM on August 9, 2009
"you have to build a case to show you have reason to fire someone, you can't just fire them out of the blue."
In an at-will state, they can fire you out of the blue.
There are certain reasons they cannot use to fire you -- for example, based on your race or sex. The reason employers "build a case" is to defend against the accusation that they fired you for one of those prohibited reasons.
posted by mikeand1 at 7:31 PM on August 9, 2009 [4 favorites]
In an at-will state, they can fire you out of the blue.
There are certain reasons they cannot use to fire you -- for example, based on your race or sex. The reason employers "build a case" is to defend against the accusation that they fired you for one of those prohibited reasons.
posted by mikeand1 at 7:31 PM on August 9, 2009 [4 favorites]
you have to build a case to show you have reason to fire someone, you can't just fire them out of the blue.
The "building a case" is for not being on the hook for the unemployment benefits (too many terminations will raise your insurance rates charged by the state).
posted by @troy at 7:31 PM on August 9, 2009
The "building a case" is for not being on the hook for the unemployment benefits (too many terminations will raise your insurance rates charged by the state).
posted by @troy at 7:31 PM on August 9, 2009
Before talking to a lawyer, get your story clear. All of this nonsense about embezzlement and company cars is not relevant to your termination.
This is a startup; if you had options and the company is taking off, you should have vested most of them by now. If the company profits, so will you.
posted by rr at 7:33 PM on August 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
This is a startup; if you had options and the company is taking off, you should have vested most of them by now. If the company profits, so will you.
posted by rr at 7:33 PM on August 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
wordwoman, that successful terminations class taught me differently. you have to build a case to show you have reason to fire someone, you can't just fire them out of the blue.
Not exactly. You have to be able to make a case should the person you fired sue you or sic some state agency on you. In other words, you have to be able to defend the action. There are lots of reasons why you can't fire someone. But firing them simply because you don't want them to work there any more is a-ok.
posted by gjc at 7:35 PM on August 9, 2009
Not exactly. You have to be able to make a case should the person you fired sue you or sic some state agency on you. In other words, you have to be able to defend the action. There are lots of reasons why you can't fire someone. But firing them simply because you don't want them to work there any more is a-ok.
posted by gjc at 7:35 PM on August 9, 2009
It bears repeating:
Ask the mods to delete it immediately and contact a lawyer.
posted by davejay at 7:43 PM on August 9, 2009 [7 favorites]
Ask the mods to delete it immediately and contact a lawyer.
posted by davejay at 7:43 PM on August 9, 2009 [7 favorites]
Seriously, follow felix betachat's advice and get this OFF of the 'net, disassociate your name with this rambling post, and call a lawyer. I'm not trying to be snarky; you end by saying, "any thoughts on how to proceed?", and this is the only reasonable response.
posted by ellF at 7:43 PM on August 9, 2009
posted by ellF at 7:43 PM on August 9, 2009
wordwoman, that successful terminations class taught me differently. you have to build a case to show you have reason to fire someone, you can't just fire them out of the blue.
Add me to the choris saying that yes, they can fire you for any reason whatsoever as long as it's not a specifically prohibited form of discrimination (race, sex, disability). You misunderstood what you learned in that wrongful terminations class.
Also, in 2006 my boss told me she was giving me a percentage of the company for my loyalty in sticking by her during the embezzlement and ensuing craziness. I never got it in writing ...
A little saying I've got about stuff like this: "If it ain't in writing, it ain't."
posted by jayder at 7:44 PM on August 9, 2009
Add me to the choris saying that yes, they can fire you for any reason whatsoever as long as it's not a specifically prohibited form of discrimination (race, sex, disability). You misunderstood what you learned in that wrongful terminations class.
Also, in 2006 my boss told me she was giving me a percentage of the company for my loyalty in sticking by her during the embezzlement and ensuing craziness. I never got it in writing ...
A little saying I've got about stuff like this: "If it ain't in writing, it ain't."
posted by jayder at 7:44 PM on August 9, 2009
IANAL either, but I'm curious - is part of the premise here that you were due commission for the sales coming in? (Meaning, is commission the way you were normally compensated and would you have due something for these sales if you were still with the company?)
Otherwise, if your point is simply that you were with the company early on and hence they should've had loyalty to you that would prevent them from firing you, that does not seem to me like it's sufficient justification to say that they owe you money.
posted by XMLicious at 7:54 PM on August 9, 2009
Otherwise, if your point is simply that you were with the company early on and hence they should've had loyalty to you that would prevent them from firing you, that does not seem to me like it's sufficient justification to say that they owe you money.
posted by XMLicious at 7:54 PM on August 9, 2009
you should have vested most of them by now
they may have vested but the poster only has 3 months to exercise them before they expire, assuming that's what her options agreement says.
posted by @troy at 8:02 PM on August 9, 2009
they may have vested but the poster only has 3 months to exercise them before they expire, assuming that's what her options agreement says.
posted by @troy at 8:02 PM on August 9, 2009
IANYL nor am I licensed in California.
Had you come into my office in New Jersey with that rambling tale, I would have (1) started billing you as soon as the timer hit 30 minutes and (2) ended the conversation with, "Good luck finding a new job." Not to be harsh, but ...yeah, I'm going to be harsh: unless there are other facts here that you haven't told us (i.e., that you informed the employer of your seizures/medical condition), there's no wrongful termination present.
Best of luck to you in negotiating a better severance and finding a new employment situation.
posted by LOLAttorney2009 at 8:02 PM on August 9, 2009
Had you come into my office in New Jersey with that rambling tale, I would have (1) started billing you as soon as the timer hit 30 minutes and (2) ended the conversation with, "Good luck finding a new job." Not to be harsh, but ...yeah, I'm going to be harsh: unless there are other facts here that you haven't told us (i.e., that you informed the employer of your seizures/medical condition), there's no wrongful termination present.
Best of luck to you in negotiating a better severance and finding a new employment situation.
posted by LOLAttorney2009 at 8:02 PM on August 9, 2009
The obvious and correct answer here is to talk to a lawyer.
And I think the reason you were fired is because you're a prima donna a.k.a. difficult to get along with. You'd be better off in the long term dealing with that than launching a counter-attack on this company.
posted by mpls2 at 8:05 PM on August 9, 2009
And I think the reason you were fired is because you're a prima donna a.k.a. difficult to get along with. You'd be better off in the long term dealing with that than launching a counter-attack on this company.
posted by mpls2 at 8:05 PM on August 9, 2009
IANAL but my previous employer was in an at will state and we had 2 different employees sue after getting fired. I had a conversation with our CFO (who was a lawyer but not in that field) and he said that basically even if you fire someone without giving a reason if they have decent employee reviews then it's possible to build a case. Basically the employee says that while a reason wasn't stated there was an unspoken discrimination. i.e.
1) I was a GREAT employee (and these two guys from my old company didn't have 1/20th the case you do in that regard)
2) I was valuable to the company
3) They must have fired me because ... pick something
got too old, discovered an expensive medical condition that they didn't want to pay for, CEO wasn't to sleep with me but I rebuffed her/him.
In other words. Have the mods delete this post and contact a lawyer.
posted by Bonzai at 8:16 PM on August 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
1) I was a GREAT employee (and these two guys from my old company didn't have 1/20th the case you do in that regard)
2) I was valuable to the company
3) They must have fired me because ... pick something
got too old, discovered an expensive medical condition that they didn't want to pay for, CEO wasn't to sleep with me but I rebuffed her/him.
In other words. Have the mods delete this post and contact a lawyer.
posted by Bonzai at 8:16 PM on August 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
1) You didn't sing anything, that's good.
2) You did sign your name above. That was not so good. If you're not going to delete the post at least have the moderators anonymize it. Seriously.
3) Being a jerk ≠ illegal. Nothing you have said sounds like grounds for a lawsuit that you'll win. Now you could threaten a lawsuit if you want to get more out of them, but that could be very costly for you if it doesn't work out and would make you at least as big of a jerk as they are.
4) Your description of the company doesn't sound like a break-out success. In fact "winning tons of awards" and fast growth has nothing to do with income. Firing you (Someone who is probably one of the higher paid people on staff, especially if the company staffed up recently) is very often one of the first steps that a company will take when they're growing faster than they can afford to. Under these circumstances the "BS excuses" make sense. Sure you're a good seller, but you're expensive. Some new kid might not be bringing your numbers in, but she's a lot lighter in the salary and extras department.
If you still think "But we were successful!" then look back at your evidence. How successful can they be if they can't afford a mere $75 a month extra for your car. Seriously. If they have a staff of 20 they're paying an absolute minimum of $30,000 a month in wages and they can't give you an extra $75 out of that?
Yeah, either they're not successful or they've been very good at screwing you for a lot longer than you seem to think.
posted by Ookseer at 8:17 PM on August 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
2) You did sign your name above. That was not so good. If you're not going to delete the post at least have the moderators anonymize it. Seriously.
3) Being a jerk ≠ illegal. Nothing you have said sounds like grounds for a lawsuit that you'll win. Now you could threaten a lawsuit if you want to get more out of them, but that could be very costly for you if it doesn't work out and would make you at least as big of a jerk as they are.
4) Your description of the company doesn't sound like a break-out success. In fact "winning tons of awards" and fast growth has nothing to do with income. Firing you (Someone who is probably one of the higher paid people on staff, especially if the company staffed up recently) is very often one of the first steps that a company will take when they're growing faster than they can afford to. Under these circumstances the "BS excuses" make sense. Sure you're a good seller, but you're expensive. Some new kid might not be bringing your numbers in, but she's a lot lighter in the salary and extras department.
If you still think "But we were successful!" then look back at your evidence. How successful can they be if they can't afford a mere $75 a month extra for your car. Seriously. If they have a staff of 20 they're paying an absolute minimum of $30,000 a month in wages and they can't give you an extra $75 out of that?
Yeah, either they're not successful or they've been very good at screwing you for a lot longer than you seem to think.
posted by Ookseer at 8:17 PM on August 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
You were an at will employee. You're screwed. It is true that it is a good idea for employers to document reasons for termination--but it is not mandatory! You are mistaken about that. Here is a link to a very good message board where you can get some excellent advice. Be warned, however, you need to try to consolidate your story better than you did here. You are coming across as a bit wacky. Sorry...but it is true. When you ask the law board about your situation pare down your story to only the clearest details. I doubt that it is wrongful termination...but these people will explain:
lawyers.com
posted by naplesyellow at 8:17 PM on August 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
lawyers.com
posted by naplesyellow at 8:17 PM on August 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
I am not a lawyer, but neither are the people who are telling you there is no such thing as an oral contract. If they promised you part ownership, and there are any emails or any kind of evidence this happened... well who knows.
But talk to a lawyer for sure.
posted by drjimmy11 at 8:37 PM on August 9, 2009
But talk to a lawyer for sure.
posted by drjimmy11 at 8:37 PM on August 9, 2009
I'm with felix betachat: Nuke this, find a lawyer.
I think the bad review on record is mostly just insurance for the employer.
Think carefully, are you sure don't have email or IMs promising some ownership?
Stuff changes as a company grows; get it all in writing, even if you have to write it, Cc the right people, and save a copy.
posted by deanj at 9:33 PM on August 9, 2009
I think the bad review on record is mostly just insurance for the employer.
Think carefully, are you sure don't have email or IMs promising some ownership?
Stuff changes as a company grows; get it all in writing, even if you have to write it, Cc the right people, and save a copy.
posted by deanj at 9:33 PM on August 9, 2009
I'm not a lawyer, but I have friends who are lawyers, and who have often expressed frustration at people's misunderstanding of at-will employment. My understanding is that even in an at-will state, there are still plenty of restrictions (not specifically built-in to the at-will law, but as part of other laws, constitutional rights, etc) that limit the circumstances under which someone can be fired. It's not just limited to discrimination.
I think you're getting a lot of bad advice here, except for those who are telling you to just talk to a lawyer.
posted by helios at 10:51 PM on August 9, 2009
I think you're getting a lot of bad advice here, except for those who are telling you to just talk to a lawyer.
posted by helios at 10:51 PM on August 9, 2009
Helios is correct. Talk to lawyer. I will mefi mail you an employment lawyer in LA. The conversation will not be free but it will be worth it.
posted by zia at 12:31 AM on August 10, 2009
posted by zia at 12:31 AM on August 10, 2009
They must have fired me because ... pick something
got too old, discovered an expensive medical condition that they didn't want to pay for, CEO wasn't to sleep with me but I rebuffed her/him...
Ding ding ding.
Delete, lawyer, now.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:47 AM on August 10, 2009 [5 favorites]
got too old, discovered an expensive medical condition that they didn't want to pay for, CEO wasn't to sleep with me but I rebuffed her/him...
Ding ding ding.
Delete, lawyer, now.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:47 AM on August 10, 2009 [5 favorites]
As you can see from the replies, you are fired.
All I would add is this...pour over the papers they want you to sign with a fine-toothed comb. Look for any non-compete clauses that would hinder you finding work. Get them stricken from any agreement they want you to sign.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:36 AM on August 10, 2009
All I would add is this...pour over the papers they want you to sign with a fine-toothed comb. Look for any non-compete clauses that would hinder you finding work. Get them stricken from any agreement they want you to sign.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:36 AM on August 10, 2009
Telling someone else in the company that you hate your job isn't always a great strategy. If I had an employee saying things like that and it got back to me, they'd be gone.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 4:45 AM on August 10, 2009
posted by ActingTheGoat at 4:45 AM on August 10, 2009
secretsecret, I know that you might THINK that someone couldn't identify you from your posting history on Mefi, but there are enough specific details in your history that they could. Please have the mods delete this and lawyer up.
posted by jeanmari at 5:14 AM on August 10, 2009
posted by jeanmari at 5:14 AM on August 10, 2009
Lawyer up. If nothing else, improve your termination package.
Might you have been fired because of your medical condition?
And, get a therapist or trusted friend to keep listening as you deal with an unfair situation. Legal and fair are not necessarily synonymous. You're likely to feel angry and hurt for quite a bit, and getting help is a good idea.
posted by theora55 at 6:17 AM on August 10, 2009
Might you have been fired because of your medical condition?
And, get a therapist or trusted friend to keep listening as you deal with an unfair situation. Legal and fair are not necessarily synonymous. You're likely to feel angry and hurt for quite a bit, and getting help is a good idea.
posted by theora55 at 6:17 AM on August 10, 2009
[My BFF] started feeding my boss info, like the fact that I privately told her I've been hating my job,
Um?
posted by trotter at 6:47 AM on August 10, 2009
Um?
posted by trotter at 6:47 AM on August 10, 2009
Um, if hating your job were legal grounds for termination, we'd be an entire nation of unemployed sods.
Delete, lawyer, now.
posted by junkbox at 7:09 AM on August 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Delete, lawyer, now.
posted by junkbox at 7:09 AM on August 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
And I think the reason you were fired is because you're a prima donna a.k.a. difficult to get along with.
What a despicable thing to say to an obviously upset person posting a question here.
I'm with DarlingBri, health problems requiring expensive tests seems a possible avenue worth exploring with a lawyer.
posted by mediareport at 7:25 AM on August 10, 2009
What a despicable thing to say to an obviously upset person posting a question here.
I'm with DarlingBri, health problems requiring expensive tests seems a possible avenue worth exploring with a lawyer.
posted by mediareport at 7:25 AM on August 10, 2009
(At the least, the "Did you fire my client to save money on health expenses?" angle might be useful in negotiating a better severance package.)
posted by mediareport at 7:27 AM on August 10, 2009
posted by mediareport at 7:27 AM on August 10, 2009
You want a lawyer who does nothing but employment law. California has a myriad of state laws that provide interesting causes of action. On the surface, you don't appear to raised any obvious issues, but a trained attorney in your state is the only way to be certain. It should cost relatively little to determine if there are any alternatives. I would suggest using the National Employment Lawyers Association website to find someone in your area with the relevant credentials. www.nela.org
posted by Lame_username at 7:28 AM on August 10, 2009
posted by Lame_username at 7:28 AM on August 10, 2009
As others have said, you seriously over-estimate your employment rights. Don't feel bad - that's typical. But on average, excepting certain protected classes, you can be fired because someone doesn't like your socks.
As others have said, documenting employee bad performance has nothing to do with what you can and can't do, it has to do with what anyone in our country can do: sue. Documentation exists to deal with potential and actual lawsuits and as a deterrent to people who might otherwise bring them. Case in point: if you had several years worth of bad writeups you'd probably feel a lot less empowered to contact an attorney and think you had a suit right now.
As DrJimmy said, there are oral contracts so your promise of a chunk of the company could be enforced.
As any lawyer will tell you, enforcing oral contracts is exceedingly hard.
As others have said, the biggest ugly fact here is the termination of a well-reviewed employee shortly after new medical expenses.
As others have said, you need to speak to a lawyer.
As others have said, this is not the picture of a successful company. It's not the picture of a company equipped for success if they find some. Don't over-estimate what they have to share with you.
As nobody has said, except about this thread, you need to talk to less people about this. Perhaps it's benign that you have heard what's been said about you in emails inside the company and talked to a friend's dad about your severance, though your history of having bitched about your job to an untrustworthy co-worker raises the question. Loose lips sink lawsuits. If it comes up with people you used to work with you can say "that's not how I would have characterized it" and "I think it would be better if I didn't talk about it just yet."
Get a consultation with a lawyer and listen seriously to their advice. If your former boss is correct about your taking things personally you need to trust other people's judgment about how viable any suit is since yours may not be reliable. You also need to not get involved in a tilting at windmills personal crusade when you're facing serious health issues. I have seen first-hand someone pursue something like this for a decade at the expense of their happiness and health.
Good luck.
posted by phearlez at 8:26 AM on August 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
As others have said, documenting employee bad performance has nothing to do with what you can and can't do, it has to do with what anyone in our country can do: sue. Documentation exists to deal with potential and actual lawsuits and as a deterrent to people who might otherwise bring them. Case in point: if you had several years worth of bad writeups you'd probably feel a lot less empowered to contact an attorney and think you had a suit right now.
As DrJimmy said, there are oral contracts so your promise of a chunk of the company could be enforced.
As any lawyer will tell you, enforcing oral contracts is exceedingly hard.
As others have said, the biggest ugly fact here is the termination of a well-reviewed employee shortly after new medical expenses.
As others have said, you need to speak to a lawyer.
As others have said, this is not the picture of a successful company. It's not the picture of a company equipped for success if they find some. Don't over-estimate what they have to share with you.
As nobody has said, except about this thread, you need to talk to less people about this. Perhaps it's benign that you have heard what's been said about you in emails inside the company and talked to a friend's dad about your severance, though your history of having bitched about your job to an untrustworthy co-worker raises the question. Loose lips sink lawsuits. If it comes up with people you used to work with you can say "that's not how I would have characterized it" and "I think it would be better if I didn't talk about it just yet."
Get a consultation with a lawyer and listen seriously to their advice. If your former boss is correct about your taking things personally you need to trust other people's judgment about how viable any suit is since yours may not be reliable. You also need to not get involved in a tilting at windmills personal crusade when you're facing serious health issues. I have seen first-hand someone pursue something like this for a decade at the expense of their happiness and health.
Good luck.
posted by phearlez at 8:26 AM on August 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think phearlez pretty much nailed it, but, as someone who used to work for an employee rights-focused legal aid clinic, I want to point out again that, in CA, you're at-will unless you signed a contract specifically stating otherwise. The only possible grounds you might have for wrongful termination might be the medical one, but you'll have to talk to a lawyer about that one.
The other thing I learned working for the clinic was that there are lots of sketchy lawyers out there ready to take money from people who think they've been wrongfully terminated but will never get any money in court, so be careful who you go to with this problem. A good rule of thumb is that you should never hire a lawyer who advertises.
posted by Aizkolari at 10:12 AM on August 10, 2009
The other thing I learned working for the clinic was that there are lots of sketchy lawyers out there ready to take money from people who think they've been wrongfully terminated but will never get any money in court, so be careful who you go to with this problem. A good rule of thumb is that you should never hire a lawyer who advertises.
posted by Aizkolari at 10:12 AM on August 10, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
Ask the mods to delete it immediately and contact a lawyer.
Seriously.
posted by felix betachat at 7:19 PM on August 9, 2009 [18 favorites]