Is it wrong to have an affair?
December 13, 2004 6:06 PM Subscribe
Is it wrong to have an affair?
No. Definitely not.
Yes, absolutely.
Depends on the situation.
posted by SpaceCadet at 6:08 PM on December 13, 2004
Yes, absolutely.
Depends on the situation.
posted by SpaceCadet at 6:08 PM on December 13, 2004
Generally yes or you wouldn't have asked.
good for you for not posting this anonymous
posted by geekyguy at 6:15 PM on December 13, 2004
good for you for not posting this anonymous
posted by geekyguy at 6:15 PM on December 13, 2004
Yes. If the relationship you are in is not working anymore, then you should either work to fix it, or have some fucking balls and end it.
posted by beth at 6:16 PM on December 13, 2004
posted by beth at 6:16 PM on December 13, 2004
Dude who works in my office reasons that it's ok for him to cheat on his girlfriend since they aren't married.
He is, by common consent, a dick.
posted by kenko at 6:19 PM on December 13, 2004
He is, by common consent, a dick.
posted by kenko at 6:19 PM on December 13, 2004
OK, I'll bite.
That depends on if you believe on absolute or relative morality.
Absolute morality (for most western cultures and particularly in the USA) says that there are no conditions under which an infidelity is justified. Some would argue that an affair is justified if it is retribution for anothers betrayal of you, but that is really more of a case of two wrongs.
Relative morality says that you are the only person who can generate any meaningful answer to that question and your answer is only applicable to yourself.
Me personally? I agree with Beth
posted by ad hoc at 6:30 PM on December 13, 2004 [1 favorite]
That depends on if you believe on absolute or relative morality.
Absolute morality (for most western cultures and particularly in the USA) says that there are no conditions under which an infidelity is justified. Some would argue that an affair is justified if it is retribution for anothers betrayal of you, but that is really more of a case of two wrongs.
Relative morality says that you are the only person who can generate any meaningful answer to that question and your answer is only applicable to yourself.
Me personally? I agree with Beth
posted by ad hoc at 6:30 PM on December 13, 2004 [1 favorite]
Yes, if it encompasses craven and dishonest behavior and lack of respect for the other person. No, otherwise.
posted by inksyndicate at 6:32 PM on December 13, 2004
posted by inksyndicate at 6:32 PM on December 13, 2004
If by wrong you mean:
"Contrary to conscience, morality, or law; immoral or wicked"
and by affair you mean:
"A romantic and sexual relationship, sometimes one of brief duration, between two people who are not married to each other."
then no.
Unless one of you has given a promise (explicit or implied) to another not to have such affairs.
Then yes, of course it is. But I'm on the side of absolute morality in this case.
(Or.... "what beth said.")
posted by ?! at 6:44 PM on December 13, 2004
"Contrary to conscience, morality, or law; immoral or wicked"
and by affair you mean:
"A romantic and sexual relationship, sometimes one of brief duration, between two people who are not married to each other."
then no.
Unless one of you has given a promise (explicit or implied) to another not to have such affairs.
Then yes, of course it is. But I'm on the side of absolute morality in this case.
(Or.... "what beth said.")
posted by ?! at 6:44 PM on December 13, 2004
It's especially wrong if you don't practice safer sex.
Just sayin'.
posted by stonerose at 6:44 PM on December 13, 2004
Just sayin'.
posted by stonerose at 6:44 PM on December 13, 2004
It's wrong to have an affair if one expects their partner not to be hurt by it.
Why have an affair? The common reasons off the top of my head are your partner wants less/no sex, there's an emotional need not being met, or revenge.
If your partner wants less or no sex, find out why. Don't just seek another's arms as the first solution. If your partner is not meeting some emotional need, talk to him/her and discuss your needs. If it's revenge, do some soul seeking and really think if an affair is going to help anything or just make it worse.
Communication is integral to any successful relationship. And with that, positive reinforcement has much more potency than negative. If my husband hasn't dumped the trash all week, I don't say, "Would you dump the goddamn trash already?" I say, "Hey, love, would you continue your awesomeness and take out the trash?" (okay, I'm exaggerating a bit, but hopefully you get my drift.) It simple little things like that which can make all the difference.
posted by frecklefaerie at 6:47 PM on December 13, 2004
Why have an affair? The common reasons off the top of my head are your partner wants less/no sex, there's an emotional need not being met, or revenge.
If your partner wants less or no sex, find out why. Don't just seek another's arms as the first solution. If your partner is not meeting some emotional need, talk to him/her and discuss your needs. If it's revenge, do some soul seeking and really think if an affair is going to help anything or just make it worse.
Communication is integral to any successful relationship. And with that, positive reinforcement has much more potency than negative. If my husband hasn't dumped the trash all week, I don't say, "Would you dump the goddamn trash already?" I say, "Hey, love, would you continue your awesomeness and take out the trash?" (okay, I'm exaggerating a bit, but hopefully you get my drift.) It simple little things like that which can make all the difference.
posted by frecklefaerie at 6:47 PM on December 13, 2004
Ask your spouse for permission. The answer you receive is the correct one.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:56 PM on December 13, 2004
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:56 PM on December 13, 2004
If the relationship you are in is not working anymore, then you should either work to fix it, or have some fucking balls and end it.
What the hell makes you people think an affair with C means there's something wrong in your relationship with B? Being partnered with a Reference Librarian is wonderful, but sometimes I might have to get me a nibble of Waitress.
Oh, and: If my husband hasn't dumped the trash all week, I don't say, "Would you dump the goddamn trash already?" I say, "Hey, love, would you continue your awesomeness and take out the trash?"
What I hear, when I haven't taken out the trash on my own initiative, is "the trash needs taking out" or "dinner will be ready by the time you get back from taking out the trash." And lo! The trash gets taken out, usually by me.
I'll bet you're a Waitress type, Freckles. Are you over 27?
posted by davy at 7:07 PM on December 13, 2004
What the hell makes you people think an affair with C means there's something wrong in your relationship with B? Being partnered with a Reference Librarian is wonderful, but sometimes I might have to get me a nibble of Waitress.
Oh, and: If my husband hasn't dumped the trash all week, I don't say, "Would you dump the goddamn trash already?" I say, "Hey, love, would you continue your awesomeness and take out the trash?"
What I hear, when I haven't taken out the trash on my own initiative, is "the trash needs taking out" or "dinner will be ready by the time you get back from taking out the trash." And lo! The trash gets taken out, usually by me.
I'll bet you're a Waitress type, Freckles. Are you over 27?
posted by davy at 7:07 PM on December 13, 2004
Yes. If the relationship you are in is not working anymore, then you should either work to fix it, or have some fucking balls and end it.
thank you beth.
having recently been cheated on, I can say, without a doubt, that the best thing that *could* have happened would have been for us to end it before it came to that. despite long discussion, and great effort (on both sides), there was still something lacking, and my exGF decided to have an affair. thought i don't think it's possible that it wasn't enough sex, but in hindsight it looks like i wasn't providing her with enough attention. now she gets no attention from me, and we've both been pretty traumatized by it.
and definitely, positively, what stonerose said. fortunately, i found out before we could have sex again, so i've not risked disease... but it could have been a much longer term physical as well as emotional impact.
posted by fake at 7:10 PM on December 13, 2004
thank you beth.
having recently been cheated on, I can say, without a doubt, that the best thing that *could* have happened would have been for us to end it before it came to that. despite long discussion, and great effort (on both sides), there was still something lacking, and my exGF decided to have an affair. thought i don't think it's possible that it wasn't enough sex, but in hindsight it looks like i wasn't providing her with enough attention. now she gets no attention from me, and we've both been pretty traumatized by it.
and definitely, positively, what stonerose said. fortunately, i found out before we could have sex again, so i've not risked disease... but it could have been a much longer term physical as well as emotional impact.
posted by fake at 7:10 PM on December 13, 2004
....what mr_crash_davis said. There's no such thing as 100% safe sex. (durn)
posted by reflecked at 7:12 PM on December 13, 2004
posted by reflecked at 7:12 PM on December 13, 2004
Okay, let me add, if you're the type of person for whom one partner is not enough to satisfy you, then be honest about it with *all* your partners, before taking off your pants. If any of your partners don't like that, they have a chance to dump you before you bring home any diseases. At least be fair.
C'mon, there are plenty of horny polyamorous folk out there. Don't crush the monogamous in your quest to have your cake and eat it too.
posted by beth at 7:17 PM on December 13, 2004
C'mon, there are plenty of horny polyamorous folk out there. Don't crush the monogamous in your quest to have your cake and eat it too.
posted by beth at 7:17 PM on December 13, 2004
Well, Mr. Mean Bucket - that depends on you and your ideology - you need to provide us with more information before you can expect us to answer that question for you.
I can tell you how I answer that question for me. For me the answer is that it's not right to have an affair behind my wife's back unless, through a sudden series of wacky events I find myself with a naked Natalie Portman (or someone of that caliber) literally throwing themself at me. My wife and I, having discussed the topic of affairs quite in depth over the years, have agreed that in that scenario it would be a bit unfair to expect any male to behave in a fully rational manner - we humans are animals at the end of the day, afterall.
In a broader, more realistic sense, though - no it's not right to have an affair behind my wife's back. That she puts up with the immense amount of bullshit that my kind of personality entails is nothing short of miraculous, and I know damn well that I owe her better than to be intentionally chasing tail behind her back.
To be honest, I'm a bit stricter about this than my wife is - while I've received a lot of blowjobs from a lot of women because I spent the first three-quarters of my life deeply religious, my experience with actual intercourse is limited to very few partners. She has expressed to me a very deep concern on her part that if I don't get more experience under my belt I will over the next few decades grow bitter and resentful of the fact that our marriage prevents me from actively seeking out more partners. To her, fidelity takes a backseat to the overall health of the relationship. The thing is, I know I can provide her with both fidelity AND a healthy relationship, and I will continue to do so.
posted by Ryvar at 7:17 PM on December 13, 2004
I can tell you how I answer that question for me. For me the answer is that it's not right to have an affair behind my wife's back unless, through a sudden series of wacky events I find myself with a naked Natalie Portman (or someone of that caliber) literally throwing themself at me. My wife and I, having discussed the topic of affairs quite in depth over the years, have agreed that in that scenario it would be a bit unfair to expect any male to behave in a fully rational manner - we humans are animals at the end of the day, afterall.
In a broader, more realistic sense, though - no it's not right to have an affair behind my wife's back. That she puts up with the immense amount of bullshit that my kind of personality entails is nothing short of miraculous, and I know damn well that I owe her better than to be intentionally chasing tail behind her back.
To be honest, I'm a bit stricter about this than my wife is - while I've received a lot of blowjobs from a lot of women because I spent the first three-quarters of my life deeply religious, my experience with actual intercourse is limited to very few partners. She has expressed to me a very deep concern on her part that if I don't get more experience under my belt I will over the next few decades grow bitter and resentful of the fact that our marriage prevents me from actively seeking out more partners. To her, fidelity takes a backseat to the overall health of the relationship. The thing is, I know I can provide her with both fidelity AND a healthy relationship, and I will continue to do so.
posted by Ryvar at 7:17 PM on December 13, 2004
Ryvar, that sounds like more of a case for an orgy or sex club or 2 couples swapping, etc, than for an actual affair. Somewhere where you both agree, or are there, or set it all up with full knowledge. I think those situations might make for more health in a relationship than just cheating.
posted by amberglow at 7:21 PM on December 13, 2004
posted by amberglow at 7:21 PM on December 13, 2004
It's only wrong if you've promised not to (i.e. if it's cheating).
I also kind of agree with davy that seeking a bit extra on the side might well have nothing at all to do with a lessening of your emotional feelings for your SO, and I truly believe that it's possible to have a purely sexual (not emotional) fling with someone without it affecting how you feel about your partner in any negative way. This does not, of course, take into account how your partner will feel about it. Affairs have ruined some relationships and saved others, I don't think it's anywhere near as black and white as people would like to think.
posted by biscotti at 7:28 PM on December 13, 2004
I also kind of agree with davy that seeking a bit extra on the side might well have nothing at all to do with a lessening of your emotional feelings for your SO, and I truly believe that it's possible to have a purely sexual (not emotional) fling with someone without it affecting how you feel about your partner in any negative way. This does not, of course, take into account how your partner will feel about it. Affairs have ruined some relationships and saved others, I don't think it's anywhere near as black and white as people would like to think.
posted by biscotti at 7:28 PM on December 13, 2004
OK, what if you're having an affair but you're not in a relationship, the other party in the affair is? You're not cheating, you're helping someone else cheat. Is that wrong? Because I've done it. And didn't feel bad.
posted by TimeFactor at 7:29 PM on December 13, 2004
posted by TimeFactor at 7:29 PM on December 13, 2004
It's absolutely wrong to have an "affair" because the word "affair" implies deception and betrayal.
It's certainly not wrong to be in an open relationship or some variation of same, and exercise whatever extramural sexual/romantic privileges you and your partner have agreed are appropriate.
(a/k/a what amberglow said)
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:30 PM on December 13, 2004
It's certainly not wrong to be in an open relationship or some variation of same, and exercise whatever extramural sexual/romantic privileges you and your partner have agreed are appropriate.
(a/k/a what amberglow said)
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:30 PM on December 13, 2004
Someone who I'm getting rather close to is currently going through a rapidly-getting-messy divorce because she had an affair.
After meeting the guy who she was married to, I don't blame her at all for having an affair with someone who pushed the right buttons on her. He's ... controlling, manipulative, authoritarian, and has a very set role in his mind of what he should do as the man of the family. It's unbearable and I find myself wanting to smack the shit out of him after being in his presence for more than five minutes.
She's ... to be honest, kind of a, well, blonde. She's not prone to examining why she does things that often. She was effectively told to marry him by her family, and before they had kids, they had compatible careers and were complimentary, life/goals -wise. Post-kids, the relationship started to fall apart very rapidly, with him becoming more authoritarian and her becoming more and more repressed. Early this year, she, for lack of a better term, popped .. and had an affair. Feeling guilty, she talked to him and told him about the affair and that she'd like to give their marriage one last chance before she asked him for a divorce. They tried, it didn't work. They're now separated and he's being a prick about everything from child support to how they should 'share' the debt from -his- private university education.
In this case, I don't think that there's anything else that would've knocked him off of his authoritarian high horse enough for him to actually be willing to try and make the relationship work and then finally give it up. He had her so under his thumb, psychologically, that she quite literally can not think for herself while in his presence. Think small furry ground animal in the presence of king cobra. Very creepy.
My problem with laws or absolute rules that exist to enforce morality in relationships is that there's always an exception to the rule. In my friend's case, I think it was a good exception. (She isn't with the guy she had the affair with, but thankfully she's ... with some help and guidance from myself and other friends she's made since they separated ... meeting some great people now who will be supportive without taking advantage of her.)
posted by SpecialK at 7:38 PM on December 13, 2004
After meeting the guy who she was married to, I don't blame her at all for having an affair with someone who pushed the right buttons on her. He's ... controlling, manipulative, authoritarian, and has a very set role in his mind of what he should do as the man of the family. It's unbearable and I find myself wanting to smack the shit out of him after being in his presence for more than five minutes.
She's ... to be honest, kind of a, well, blonde. She's not prone to examining why she does things that often. She was effectively told to marry him by her family, and before they had kids, they had compatible careers and were complimentary, life/goals -wise. Post-kids, the relationship started to fall apart very rapidly, with him becoming more authoritarian and her becoming more and more repressed. Early this year, she, for lack of a better term, popped .. and had an affair. Feeling guilty, she talked to him and told him about the affair and that she'd like to give their marriage one last chance before she asked him for a divorce. They tried, it didn't work. They're now separated and he's being a prick about everything from child support to how they should 'share' the debt from -his- private university education.
In this case, I don't think that there's anything else that would've knocked him off of his authoritarian high horse enough for him to actually be willing to try and make the relationship work and then finally give it up. He had her so under his thumb, psychologically, that she quite literally can not think for herself while in his presence. Think small furry ground animal in the presence of king cobra. Very creepy.
My problem with laws or absolute rules that exist to enforce morality in relationships is that there's always an exception to the rule. In my friend's case, I think it was a good exception. (She isn't with the guy she had the affair with, but thankfully she's ... with some help and guidance from myself and other friends she's made since they separated ... meeting some great people now who will be supportive without taking advantage of her.)
posted by SpecialK at 7:38 PM on December 13, 2004
Oh, I should add: In my opinion, yes, it's generally very bad to break promises you've made to someone else, whether it's to have an affair or whatever. If it was me, I'd end the relationship first or come to some other agreement to open up the relationship... mostly because I hate having to lie and you can tell my emotions easily anyway. But I don't think that it's a hard, cut, dry, etc. moral rule that affairs are wrong, and I have been the "man on the side" from time to time before.
posted by SpecialK at 7:47 PM on December 13, 2004
posted by SpecialK at 7:47 PM on December 13, 2004
It's wrong to have an affair.
If your relationship is at the point that you feel like being with someone else, break it off, end it, slip out the back, jack, whatever but don't cause any more pain than a clean break would. Affairs are ugly, demeaning to all parties and unnecessary if you're honest with yourself.
posted by kamylyon at 7:49 PM on December 13, 2004
If your relationship is at the point that you feel like being with someone else, break it off, end it, slip out the back, jack, whatever but don't cause any more pain than a clean break would. Affairs are ugly, demeaning to all parties and unnecessary if you're honest with yourself.
posted by kamylyon at 7:49 PM on December 13, 2004
Of course it's wrong.
Unless you're dating my ex.
posted by mudpuppie at 8:00 PM on December 13, 2004
Unless you're dating my ex.
posted by mudpuppie at 8:00 PM on December 13, 2004
I think its wrong, but I love Lost in Translation, which makes me think there must be some exception.
posted by gsteff at 8:01 PM on December 13, 2004
posted by gsteff at 8:01 PM on December 13, 2004
OK, what if you're having an affair but you're not in a relationship, the other party in the affair is?
Unpopular an opinion as it may be, I say that you didn't make the promise (assuming you don't have a problem with having an affair with a married person in the first place). Obviously, you should be aware of what you're getting into, but any promises or arrangements the other party made aren't yours, and you're not the one breaking them.
Affairs are ugly, demeaning to all parties and unnecessary if you're honest with yourself.
Disagreement. This presupposes that all affairs are had for the same reasons and all have the same results. Putting complex and wildly variable sets of circumstances into a one-size-fits-all mold is simplistic and inaccurate.
posted by biscotti at 8:05 PM on December 13, 2004
Unpopular an opinion as it may be, I say that you didn't make the promise (assuming you don't have a problem with having an affair with a married person in the first place). Obviously, you should be aware of what you're getting into, but any promises or arrangements the other party made aren't yours, and you're not the one breaking them.
Affairs are ugly, demeaning to all parties and unnecessary if you're honest with yourself.
Disagreement. This presupposes that all affairs are had for the same reasons and all have the same results. Putting complex and wildly variable sets of circumstances into a one-size-fits-all mold is simplistic and inaccurate.
posted by biscotti at 8:05 PM on December 13, 2004
I've received a lot of blowjobs from a lot of women because I spent the first three-quarters of my life deeply religious
Damn, maybe I should get myself some of that good old-time religion!
if I don't get more experience under my belt I will over the next few decades grow bitter and resentful of the fact that our marriage prevents me from actively seeking out more partners
My partner and I have been with each other for heading on two decades. We've found that the sex just keeps getting better and better and better. Practice, it seems, is leading to perfect.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:31 PM on December 13, 2004
Damn, maybe I should get myself some of that good old-time religion!
if I don't get more experience under my belt I will over the next few decades grow bitter and resentful of the fact that our marriage prevents me from actively seeking out more partners
My partner and I have been with each other for heading on two decades. We've found that the sex just keeps getting better and better and better. Practice, it seems, is leading to perfect.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:31 PM on December 13, 2004
Relative morality says that you are the only person who can generate any meaningful answer to that question and your answer is only applicable to yourself.
In which case, there's no point in asking anyone.
posted by dagnyscott at 8:32 PM on December 13, 2004
In which case, there's no point in asking anyone.
posted by dagnyscott at 8:32 PM on December 13, 2004
Absolute morality (for most western cultures and particularly in the USA) says that there are no conditions under which an infidelity is justified.
No, there are all sorts of absolutist moral systems that could condone acts of infidelity. Act utilitarianism, for one, would think infidelity permissible from time to time. And relativist morality does not necessarily mean that morals are relative to oneself; they could be relative to a community that finds infidelity unacceptable even if a member of the community is inclined to disagree.
posted by painquale at 8:36 PM on December 13, 2004
No, there are all sorts of absolutist moral systems that could condone acts of infidelity. Act utilitarianism, for one, would think infidelity permissible from time to time. And relativist morality does not necessarily mean that morals are relative to oneself; they could be relative to a community that finds infidelity unacceptable even if a member of the community is inclined to disagree.
posted by painquale at 8:36 PM on December 13, 2004
I had two friends who cheated on their spouses and my personal take on it is that all that is just rationalizing. They had all sorts of excuses - my husband won't sleep with me, my wife doesn't understand me (!) - but in the end, if you embark on a course of action that could utterly devastate the person you married, you are, in my book anyway, a truly lousy excuse for a human being. They called me judgmental. Perhaps I am.
posted by CunningLinguist at 8:39 PM on December 13, 2004
posted by CunningLinguist at 8:39 PM on December 13, 2004
Affairs are fine for everyone else to have, but they're not for me.
posted by Mo Nickels at 8:41 PM on December 13, 2004
posted by Mo Nickels at 8:41 PM on December 13, 2004
It's definitely wrong to have an affair. Contrast that statement with "you definitely should not have an affair".
If it's fun, or "life-affirming" (as in "Lost in Translation") or if you feel like burning some interpersonal bridges, it may bear doing anyway.
Doing it may make you a dick, a jerk, or a bastard. Especially if you're caught. Is being a dick, jerk, or bastard a problem for you? Is lying repugnant to you, and are actions you find repugnant off-limits?
These questions are not rhetorical.
posted by Luther Blissett at 9:03 PM on December 13, 2004
If it's fun, or "life-affirming" (as in "Lost in Translation") or if you feel like burning some interpersonal bridges, it may bear doing anyway.
Doing it may make you a dick, a jerk, or a bastard. Especially if you're caught. Is being a dick, jerk, or bastard a problem for you? Is lying repugnant to you, and are actions you find repugnant off-limits?
These questions are not rhetorical.
posted by Luther Blissett at 9:03 PM on December 13, 2004
When my 10 year old daughter made a comment that alerted me to the fact that my wife was sleeping with a guy she was working with, I decided that it was quite wrong to have an affair.
Ahh, it's nice to be single again, but I would never wish the pain of that situation on anyone (well, except for my ex)
posted by keep it tight at 9:12 PM on December 13, 2004
Ahh, it's nice to be single again, but I would never wish the pain of that situation on anyone (well, except for my ex)
posted by keep it tight at 9:12 PM on December 13, 2004
I'll take a stab at disagreeing and say that it is ok, sometimes, to have a type of affair. I think it absolutely depends on the type, and for what reason.
If we're talking about sex, or an affair because you really want to move on and just can't bring yourself to do it, then no, it's not ok.
But let's say that you love your partner and the last thing in the world you want is to leave them. Yet this love doesn't preclude your attraction to other people. A season of secret flirtation (eg Lost in Translation) might be enough to get over what could have become an obsession with the forbidden.
I would hate to think that someone broke off a relationship with me that could have lasted and grown stronger just because they got stuck between a rut and an absolute view of what is Right. If all my partner needed was a week of running around, giggling, and staying up talking about the meaning of life with some other guy... I'd hope she'd do it.
I don't want to ever know about it, though.
And no, I haven't done this. I'm not just making excuses for myself, here.
posted by 4easypayments at 9:47 PM on December 13, 2004
If we're talking about sex, or an affair because you really want to move on and just can't bring yourself to do it, then no, it's not ok.
But let's say that you love your partner and the last thing in the world you want is to leave them. Yet this love doesn't preclude your attraction to other people. A season of secret flirtation (eg Lost in Translation) might be enough to get over what could have become an obsession with the forbidden.
I would hate to think that someone broke off a relationship with me that could have lasted and grown stronger just because they got stuck between a rut and an absolute view of what is Right. If all my partner needed was a week of running around, giggling, and staying up talking about the meaning of life with some other guy... I'd hope she'd do it.
I don't want to ever know about it, though.
And no, I haven't done this. I'm not just making excuses for myself, here.
posted by 4easypayments at 9:47 PM on December 13, 2004
But let's say that you love your partner and the last thing in the world you want is to leave them. Yet this love doesn't preclude your attraction to other people. A season of secret flirtation (eg Lost in Translation) might be enough to get over what could have become an obsession with the forbidden.
Disclaimer: Haven't seen lost in translation. However, I've been the 'last fling before settling down' at least twice, and probably a third time. I didn't mind being it, because the women involved were incredibly close friends and who can you trust enough to kiss and to sleep with but your close friends? I knew they wouldn't leave their beaus for me, and was fine with it (Wasn't doing anything else at the time), and they knew I wouldn't pressure them to. Both women that I'm certain of this with got married quite young and simply wanted to make sure that getting married to that man at that age was the right thing to do.
posted by SpecialK at 10:41 PM on December 13, 2004
Disclaimer: Haven't seen lost in translation. However, I've been the 'last fling before settling down' at least twice, and probably a third time. I didn't mind being it, because the women involved were incredibly close friends and who can you trust enough to kiss and to sleep with but your close friends? I knew they wouldn't leave their beaus for me, and was fine with it (Wasn't doing anything else at the time), and they knew I wouldn't pressure them to. Both women that I'm certain of this with got married quite young and simply wanted to make sure that getting married to that man at that age was the right thing to do.
posted by SpecialK at 10:41 PM on December 13, 2004
It's not okay to break a promise or to lie, especially to someone you profess to love. So don't cheat on your partner. I can't even imagine doing so.
Unpopular an opinion as it may be, I say that you didn't make the promise (assuming you don't have a problem with having an affair with a married person in the first place). Obviously, you should be aware of what you're getting into, but any promises or arrangements the other party made aren't yours, and you're not the one breaking them.
I agree.
posted by rushmc at 10:45 PM on December 13, 2004
Unpopular an opinion as it may be, I say that you didn't make the promise (assuming you don't have a problem with having an affair with a married person in the first place). Obviously, you should be aware of what you're getting into, but any promises or arrangements the other party made aren't yours, and you're not the one breaking them.
I agree.
posted by rushmc at 10:45 PM on December 13, 2004
Seems like something that would hurt the kids, if you have any.
posted by mecran01 at 10:57 PM on December 13, 2004
posted by mecran01 at 10:57 PM on December 13, 2004
Many times it can not be "wrong"--though not be "right". Using the words "right" and "wrong" here is a mistake. There are two criteria I can recommend: first that you be 100% honest with yourself about what you're doing and "why" (the why you can't know but you should try), second that you be fully willing to accept all consequences. Provided you can do this then I fully support making the decision to have an affair.
And this is not simply a case of breaking a promise. Promises are not ends in themselves. There are different types of promises and that have different types of values. Sometimes the case for "breaking" a promise made to an external entity (be it your spouse, your employer, or your nation) can be compelling--even imperative. The only true promises are promises you've made to yourself.
A side note: Oftenwhen I find myself considering morally dubious actions I will consider the existence of my doubt to be sufficient cause and go ahead and execute the action. The rationale behind this is complex but it is not such a bad way to live. At least, in the end, you will truly understand the nature of your moral decision by having to suffer the consequences. External morality, the kind we receive from others, has a way of making people always doubt themselves and this I consider worst then committing most "sins."
posted by nixerman at 11:01 PM on December 13, 2004
And this is not simply a case of breaking a promise. Promises are not ends in themselves. There are different types of promises and that have different types of values. Sometimes the case for "breaking" a promise made to an external entity (be it your spouse, your employer, or your nation) can be compelling--even imperative. The only true promises are promises you've made to yourself.
A side note: Oftenwhen I find myself considering morally dubious actions I will consider the existence of my doubt to be sufficient cause and go ahead and execute the action. The rationale behind this is complex but it is not such a bad way to live. At least, in the end, you will truly understand the nature of your moral decision by having to suffer the consequences. External morality, the kind we receive from others, has a way of making people always doubt themselves and this I consider worst then committing most "sins."
posted by nixerman at 11:01 PM on December 13, 2004
If we, as a society, can come up with moral justifications for killing another person it shouldn't be too difficult for us to come up with justifications for having sex with another person.
posted by herc at 11:16 PM on December 13, 2004
posted by herc at 11:16 PM on December 13, 2004
Davy - What the hell makes you people think an affair with C means there's something wrong in your relationship with B? Being partnered with a Reference Librarian is wonderful, but sometimes I might have to get me a nibble of Waitress.
Actually, you don't have to do anything, Davy. You would do it because you wanted to.
Lots of people let themselves off the hook and, in fact, disempower themselves by thinking that they "have" to do something. Take control of your urges and suddenly you're in charge of everything.
And, well, it was by request of my husband that I do the sugary sweet thing. Default request mode for me is, "You know, I've taken out the trash twice a week for the last six weeks and it would be nice if you would do it once in awhile." Eh, give and take if you want to make it work.
And, btw, I'm 25 and I don't think I'm a particular "type."
posted by frecklefaerie at 11:18 PM on December 13, 2004
Actually, you don't have to do anything, Davy. You would do it because you wanted to.
Lots of people let themselves off the hook and, in fact, disempower themselves by thinking that they "have" to do something. Take control of your urges and suddenly you're in charge of everything.
And, well, it was by request of my husband that I do the sugary sweet thing. Default request mode for me is, "You know, I've taken out the trash twice a week for the last six weeks and it would be nice if you would do it once in awhile." Eh, give and take if you want to make it work.
And, btw, I'm 25 and I don't think I'm a particular "type."
posted by frecklefaerie at 11:18 PM on December 13, 2004
When my 10 year old daughter made a comment that alerted me to the fact that my wife was sleeping with a guy she was working with, I decided that it was quite wrong to have an affair.
Holy fuck that sucks.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:56 AM on December 14, 2004
Holy fuck that sucks.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:56 AM on December 14, 2004
Ask Metafilter: Holy fuck that sucks.
Not that I want to start a trend.
posted by zpousman at 7:12 AM on December 14, 2004
Not that I want to start a trend.
posted by zpousman at 7:12 AM on December 14, 2004
There are two criteria I can recommend: first that you be 100% honest with yourself about what you're doing and "why" (the why you can't know but you should try), second that you be fully willing to accept all consequences. Provided you can do this then I fully support making the decision to have an affair.
Wow, what a self-centered philosophy you are promoting here. No consideration whatsoever for the impact of your actions upon the emotional well-being of your partner. I am not astounded that someone would view relationships this way, but I am amazed that they would so freely admit it.
posted by rushmc at 8:20 AM on December 14, 2004
Wow, what a self-centered philosophy you are promoting here. No consideration whatsoever for the impact of your actions upon the emotional well-being of your partner. I am not astounded that someone would view relationships this way, but I am amazed that they would so freely admit it.
posted by rushmc at 8:20 AM on December 14, 2004
this thread addresses the same question, and I still think cheating or having an illicit affair is by definition wrong. It is breaking a central promise you made to the person you supposedly love most in the world. Either agree to an open marriage/relationship, or break off the one that's not working.
posted by mdn at 8:48 AM on December 14, 2004
posted by mdn at 8:48 AM on December 14, 2004
When I found out that someone close to me had had an affair long ago, it didn't destroy my image of them, or my image of their commitment to their relationship. While I think it is wrong to have an affair, given the turbulence of relationships, the depth of experience that life has to offer, the length of a healthy lifespan, and the animal hormones that drive us all, I would probably say it's forgiveable.
Obviously not so if your partner did it to you yesterday. That POV has been expressed here, amply. But in the grand scheme, it is kinda unfair that 1 sexual encounter can topple 20 years of partnership, patience, hard work, love, and the rest of it. That's pride as much as anything.
posted by scarabic at 10:17 AM on December 14, 2004
Obviously not so if your partner did it to you yesterday. That POV has been expressed here, amply. But in the grand scheme, it is kinda unfair that 1 sexual encounter can topple 20 years of partnership, patience, hard work, love, and the rest of it. That's pride as much as anything.
posted by scarabic at 10:17 AM on December 14, 2004
rushmc, "accept all consequences" includes the considering the pain you'll cause others.
And yes, it is selfish. So what?
posted by nixerman at 10:27 AM on December 14, 2004
And yes, it is selfish. So what?
posted by nixerman at 10:27 AM on December 14, 2004
This man's blog (and some of the comments) contains some wonderfully insightful things about the whole conundrum... (I'm one of the dreaded n00bs, so if I've committed a faux pas by linking to a blog, let me know.)
posted by Specklet at 10:52 AM on December 14, 2004 [1 favorite]
posted by Specklet at 10:52 AM on December 14, 2004 [1 favorite]
Think small furry ground animal in the presence of king cobra.
I, um, resemble that remark. :)
For what it's worth, I spent the first .25 of my life deeply religious too, and no plo chops for me. I think I missed out.
I think affairs are wrong. People who have them often hold the same view at first.
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 11:51 AM on December 14, 2004
I, um, resemble that remark. :)
For what it's worth, I spent the first .25 of my life deeply religious too, and no plo chops for me. I think I missed out.
I think affairs are wrong. People who have them often hold the same view at first.
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 11:51 AM on December 14, 2004
RikiTikiTavi: I read that book as a kid! You were awesome in it.
And on topic: I don't see the purpose of affairs. If you're not happy with the person you're with, so much that you'd consider shattering their trust in you, you might as well just leave. All an affair is going to do is make you more miserable, any way you look at it. If you're the sort of person who can rationalize it, ("I'm glad I had the affair. My relationship was turning sour, I was bored, I was curious, etc.") then the affair is only going to serve as a reminder of all the things wrong in your current situation.
If you're unhappy, just get out of the relationship. An affair is only going to make you wish you did it sooner, so you could have at least kept some integrity.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 1:12 PM on December 14, 2004
And on topic: I don't see the purpose of affairs. If you're not happy with the person you're with, so much that you'd consider shattering their trust in you, you might as well just leave. All an affair is going to do is make you more miserable, any way you look at it. If you're the sort of person who can rationalize it, ("I'm glad I had the affair. My relationship was turning sour, I was bored, I was curious, etc.") then the affair is only going to serve as a reminder of all the things wrong in your current situation.
If you're unhappy, just get out of the relationship. An affair is only going to make you wish you did it sooner, so you could have at least kept some integrity.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 1:12 PM on December 14, 2004
And yes, it is selfish. So what?
Well, for one thing, I would imagine that a lot of people would not want to have a relationship with someone who would act only in their own self interest and not consider the needs & feelings of their partner. Unfortunately, many people don't find out that their partner thinks in this way until it's too late to extricate cleanly.
posted by rushmc at 5:08 PM on December 14, 2004 [1 favorite]
Well, for one thing, I would imagine that a lot of people would not want to have a relationship with someone who would act only in their own self interest and not consider the needs & feelings of their partner. Unfortunately, many people don't find out that their partner thinks in this way until it's too late to extricate cleanly.
posted by rushmc at 5:08 PM on December 14, 2004 [1 favorite]
it's too late to extricate cleanly.
This is exactly why I refuse to get into another 'relationship': If I have to think of a way out before I get into it, why get into it?
I don't want to get into another relationship that I'll have to get out of, or want to get out of.
posted by kamylyon at 6:32 PM on December 14, 2004
This is exactly why I refuse to get into another 'relationship': If I have to think of a way out before I get into it, why get into it?
I don't want to get into another relationship that I'll have to get out of, or want to get out of.
posted by kamylyon at 6:32 PM on December 14, 2004
I don't want to get into another relationship that I'll have to get out of, or want to get out of.
Most people don't. But in most cases "I'll have to" implies foreknowledge that is impossible to attain. The proper phrasing is "might have to," and that applies inevitably in all cases. If you aren't willing to cope with that, it's time to find a cave.
posted by rushmc at 10:16 AM on December 15, 2004 [1 favorite]
Most people don't. But in most cases "I'll have to" implies foreknowledge that is impossible to attain. The proper phrasing is "might have to," and that applies inevitably in all cases. If you aren't willing to cope with that, it's time to find a cave.
posted by rushmc at 10:16 AM on December 15, 2004 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Why do you ask?
posted by Doohickie at 6:08 PM on December 13, 2004