Publishing Directions Needed!
February 17, 2009 6:21 PM
How do I submit book proposals to publishers?
I have a collection of stories, an idea for a partner yoga book and also have a collection of mathematical insights and experiments from a friend that I think would make a great book for young adults. How would I go about submitting proposals to publishers? Is there on on-line list of publishers contact info that I can access?
I have a collection of stories, an idea for a partner yoga book and also have a collection of mathematical insights and experiments from a friend that I think would make a great book for young adults. How would I go about submitting proposals to publishers? Is there on on-line list of publishers contact info that I can access?
You don't go to publishers; you find an agent, who will pitch your ideas to publishers. Unrepresented works almost never get published.
On the other hand, self-publishing is getting much easier and less expensive, if you'd like to eschew the traditional route.
posted by orrnyereg at 7:00 PM on February 17, 2009
On the other hand, self-publishing is getting much easier and less expensive, if you'd like to eschew the traditional route.
posted by orrnyereg at 7:00 PM on February 17, 2009
There are always exceptions but unfortunately, none of those topics sound likely to sell in what is one of the toughest publishing markets ever. Short stories are notoriously noncommercial and math, well...let's just say Oprah isn't likely to call, even though we certainly need more good, accessible books.
OTOH, the yoga book could be commercial. Nonetheless, even established authors are finding it difficult to sell books and advances are declining.
But it's certainly true that if you want to try, without an agent, you will get nowhere in mainstream publishing.
posted by Maias at 7:13 PM on February 17, 2009
OTOH, the yoga book could be commercial. Nonetheless, even established authors are finding it difficult to sell books and advances are declining.
But it's certainly true that if you want to try, without an agent, you will get nowhere in mainstream publishing.
posted by Maias at 7:13 PM on February 17, 2009
Is self-publishing out of the question? To be honest, I think the traditional publishing industry is a wreck. Here are some of the things you can expect to go through:
- You can't submit to publishers, as the others said, so you must get an agent.
- It's hard to get an agent.
- I've heard that it's even harder to get into the YA and self-improvement areas, as many writers want to get into those.
- Most agents don't allow simultaneous submissions. That means you can't try for more than one agent at a time. Same goes for many publishers.
- Expect lots of rejections, no matter how good you are. Getting an agent, particularly a good one, is often a matter of meeting them at conventions these days.
- You probably shouldn't go through any of the above if you don't want to write more books.
If you want to self-publish, you have lots of options. Don't pay upfront, though, unless you're actually going and getting the books printed somewhere locally. You can go through online services like Lulu or Blurb if you want to do a lot of the process yourself, but not organize a printer. Lulu has distribution services as well.
Probably a good thing for you to do would be to decide what it is you really want out of this. If you're wanting to continue being a writer, and (try hard) to make solid money from it, go through the above. If you want to continue being a writer, but want to cut the bullshit and don't care so much about the money you make, consider self-publishing.
Good luck! Publishing (any way you do it) ain't a breeze!
posted by metalheart at 7:15 PM on February 17, 2009
- You can't submit to publishers, as the others said, so you must get an agent.
- It's hard to get an agent.
- I've heard that it's even harder to get into the YA and self-improvement areas, as many writers want to get into those.
- Most agents don't allow simultaneous submissions. That means you can't try for more than one agent at a time. Same goes for many publishers.
- Expect lots of rejections, no matter how good you are. Getting an agent, particularly a good one, is often a matter of meeting them at conventions these days.
- You probably shouldn't go through any of the above if you don't want to write more books.
If you want to self-publish, you have lots of options. Don't pay upfront, though, unless you're actually going and getting the books printed somewhere locally. You can go through online services like Lulu or Blurb if you want to do a lot of the process yourself, but not organize a printer. Lulu has distribution services as well.
Probably a good thing for you to do would be to decide what it is you really want out of this. If you're wanting to continue being a writer, and (try hard) to make solid money from it, go through the above. If you want to continue being a writer, but want to cut the bullshit and don't care so much about the money you make, consider self-publishing.
Good luck! Publishing (any way you do it) ain't a breeze!
posted by metalheart at 7:15 PM on February 17, 2009
Proceed immediately to your local bookstore and pick up a copy of the latest WRITER'S MARKET. The bulk of the book is a list of all book and magazine publishers that are out there -- but, they also have a section in the beginning telling you how to pitch ideas.
It's aimed chiefly at magazine writers, but they have some advice for book writers -- and hell, maybe the magazine sections will give you other ideas as well.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:29 PM on February 17, 2009
It's aimed chiefly at magazine writers, but they have some advice for book writers -- and hell, maybe the magazine sections will give you other ideas as well.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:29 PM on February 17, 2009
While you are looking for ways to get published, please beware scam publishers who will charge you money to read your manuscript, or to edit it. No reputable publisher ever charges for these things. Writer Beware and Preditors & Editors are good resources to steer you on the straight and narrow.
posted by ocherdraco at 7:30 PM on February 17, 2009
posted by ocherdraco at 7:30 PM on February 17, 2009
Beg to differ re: "Unrepresented works almost never get published." In short stories and YA lit, sure. But niche markets like yoga books? Not so much.
I only hired an agent after my (6th? 7th? hell, I can't remember) book, because I was tired of chasing one of the world's largest publishers down for a measly $600 check they owed me. In niche markets like the one I'm in (I'd say yoga-related books probably fall into a similar category), it's more important to make friends with the magazine editors, etc first.
If I were you, I'd pitch a story related to your yoga idea to Yoga Journal and some related mags -- chances are if you can't muster interest from the related mags, you'll have a hard time with publishers, agent or not. And if you're lucky and find a good editor who likes you and is interested in your work, they may be able to introduce you to a related publisher in that field.
That said, once you have a publisher's interest, it's not a bad idea to find an agent, or a lawyer with experience reviewing book contracts. I have had a lot of success (over 10 books now!) in finding my own book deals and -- since I hired her -- letting my agent deal with the contract stuff or any chasing-down that needs to happen. She's brilliant, but I have better contacts in my particular publishing niche than she does, so it works well.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 9:46 PM on February 17, 2009
I only hired an agent after my (6th? 7th? hell, I can't remember) book, because I was tired of chasing one of the world's largest publishers down for a measly $600 check they owed me. In niche markets like the one I'm in (I'd say yoga-related books probably fall into a similar category), it's more important to make friends with the magazine editors, etc first.
If I were you, I'd pitch a story related to your yoga idea to Yoga Journal and some related mags -- chances are if you can't muster interest from the related mags, you'll have a hard time with publishers, agent or not. And if you're lucky and find a good editor who likes you and is interested in your work, they may be able to introduce you to a related publisher in that field.
That said, once you have a publisher's interest, it's not a bad idea to find an agent, or a lawyer with experience reviewing book contracts. I have had a lot of success (over 10 books now!) in finding my own book deals and -- since I hired her -- letting my agent deal with the contract stuff or any chasing-down that needs to happen. She's brilliant, but I have better contacts in my particular publishing niche than she does, so it works well.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 9:46 PM on February 17, 2009
You can go through online services like Lulu or Blurb if you want to do a lot of the process yourself, but not organize a printer. Lulu has distribution services as well.
Please be aware that if you self-publish, no major bookstore will carry your book on the shelf. People can order it online, but that's it.
posted by Violet Hour at 9:46 PM on February 17, 2009
Please be aware that if you self-publish, no major bookstore will carry your book on the shelf. People can order it online, but that's it.
posted by Violet Hour at 9:46 PM on February 17, 2009
Please be aware that if you self-publish, no major bookstore will carry your book on the shelf. People can order it online, but that's it.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
posted by Ookseer at 11:10 PM on February 17, 2009
You say that like it's a bad thing.
posted by Ookseer at 11:10 PM on February 17, 2009
You say that like it's a bad thing.
Maybe not to you, but every day I have to disappoint people who have published on Lulu or Authorhouse and want their book on bookstore shelves. They're very upset and angry that it can't be, and say they would never have spent the money on a self-publishing service had they realized this.
posted by Violet Hour at 11:46 PM on February 17, 2009
Maybe not to you, but every day I have to disappoint people who have published on Lulu or Authorhouse and want their book on bookstore shelves. They're very upset and angry that it can't be, and say they would never have spent the money on a self-publishing service had they realized this.
posted by Violet Hour at 11:46 PM on February 17, 2009
It really sounds like you are looking for the basic beginner's info on how to start doing this.
So forgive me for suggesting these:
Getting Your Book Published for Dummies
The Complete Idiots Guide to Getting Published
The archives of the now-defunct Miss Snark
All of these will discuss the differences between self-publishing and traditional publishing. My personal opinion on it is fairly simple. Self-publishing is for people who want to try publishing. (All the parts of publishing, not just the author part). Traditional publishing is for people who want someone who already publishes books to publish their work. It's kind of like the difference between opening your own Etsy shop and getting your handmade goods placed in some kind of national store chain. (Not the best analogy, maybe, but it's what I'm going with today).
posted by lampoil at 8:00 AM on February 18, 2009
So forgive me for suggesting these:
Getting Your Book Published for Dummies
The Complete Idiots Guide to Getting Published
The archives of the now-defunct Miss Snark
All of these will discuss the differences between self-publishing and traditional publishing. My personal opinion on it is fairly simple. Self-publishing is for people who want to try publishing. (All the parts of publishing, not just the author part). Traditional publishing is for people who want someone who already publishes books to publish their work. It's kind of like the difference between opening your own Etsy shop and getting your handmade goods placed in some kind of national store chain. (Not the best analogy, maybe, but it's what I'm going with today).
posted by lampoil at 8:00 AM on February 18, 2009
every day I have to disappoint people who have published on Lulu or Authorhouse and want their book on bookstore shelves. They're very upset and angry that it can't be, and say they would never have spent the money on a self-publishing service had they realized this.
Can you explain why this is? If the book has an ISBN, and a distribution route, what's the difference.
Also, by "Major" I'm assuming you mean B&N, Borders, etc. Not an independent bookstore, is that correct?
posted by anastasiav at 10:28 AM on February 18, 2009
Can you explain why this is? If the book has an ISBN, and a distribution route, what's the difference.
Also, by "Major" I'm assuming you mean B&N, Borders, etc. Not an independent bookstore, is that correct?
posted by anastasiav at 10:28 AM on February 18, 2009
Can you explain why this is? If the book has an ISBN, and a distribution route, what's the difference.
Most self-published titles are nonreturnable, for one thing. Even if they are returnable, it costs money for a store to stock a book: the store pays shipping, someone gets paid to shelve it, when it's still sitting on the shelf six months later someone else gets paid to send it back, and then the store has to pay shipping to send it back. It's hard enough for stores to sell books by famous authors on major publishers. Also, to be frank, most self-published books are self-published because a traditional publisher wouldn't touch them. They are often badly written and look cheaply made, and expensive for what they are (over $20 for a crappy-looking paperback). There are, of course, exceptions. Some authors do self-publish and then later get picked up by a major publisher; some authors sell thousands of copies out of the trunk of their car. But it's unusual. The vast majority of self-published books sell a handful of copies to friends or families of the author.
Also, by "Major" I'm assuming you mean B&N, Borders, etc. Not an independent bookstore, is that correct?
Yes. To be honest, I doubt an independent would stock them either, but that would be up to the owner. Most independents are not going to have the money to throw at self-published titles.
I don't mean to sound negative about self-publishing though: if that's what someone wants to do, great. I just feel bad for people who have paid for it with the hope of having their book on store shelves.
posted by Violet Hour at 11:38 AM on February 18, 2009
Most self-published titles are nonreturnable, for one thing. Even if they are returnable, it costs money for a store to stock a book: the store pays shipping, someone gets paid to shelve it, when it's still sitting on the shelf six months later someone else gets paid to send it back, and then the store has to pay shipping to send it back. It's hard enough for stores to sell books by famous authors on major publishers. Also, to be frank, most self-published books are self-published because a traditional publisher wouldn't touch them. They are often badly written and look cheaply made, and expensive for what they are (over $20 for a crappy-looking paperback). There are, of course, exceptions. Some authors do self-publish and then later get picked up by a major publisher; some authors sell thousands of copies out of the trunk of their car. But it's unusual. The vast majority of self-published books sell a handful of copies to friends or families of the author.
Also, by "Major" I'm assuming you mean B&N, Borders, etc. Not an independent bookstore, is that correct?
Yes. To be honest, I doubt an independent would stock them either, but that would be up to the owner. Most independents are not going to have the money to throw at self-published titles.
I don't mean to sound negative about self-publishing though: if that's what someone wants to do, great. I just feel bad for people who have paid for it with the hope of having their book on store shelves.
posted by Violet Hour at 11:38 AM on February 18, 2009
Can you explain why this is? If the book has an ISBN, and a distribution route, what's the difference.
Also, by "Major" I'm assuming you mean B&N, Borders, etc. Not an independent bookstore, is that correct?
How would buyers at major chains OR independents find out about the book? There's not really a feed that pushes out all ISBNs of all upcoming books that any bookstore has access to (there are feeds, but they come directly from the publisher, so again, the self-published author is out of luck). It takes two or three or more sales reps for major houses to get buys of just 1,500 copies for Barnes & Noble, and those books are heavily discounted and returnable. No one is representing the self-published books to a buyer, which have none of the other benefits going for them. In addition, the marketing departments of major houses have been blanketing those buyers with advance copies and other marketing materials, and the publicity department has also been sending out advance copies to garner reviews and blurbs as well as secure shows like Oprah or NPR. Without all that muscle behind it, how would a store buyer (chain or independent) even hear about a self-published book?
This really cannot be overstated enough:
Also, to be frank, most self-published books are self-published because a traditional publisher wouldn't touch them. They are often badly written and look cheaply made, and expensive for what they are (over $20 for a crappy-looking paperback).
I also am not trying to shout No Self Publishing Ever! My imprint picks up several self-published books per year, and they tend to do quite well. It's a good tool for finding a publisher if traditional methods have failed, but it's not guaranteed, and the majority of books we buy come through agents.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 12:18 PM on February 18, 2009
Also, by "Major" I'm assuming you mean B&N, Borders, etc. Not an independent bookstore, is that correct?
How would buyers at major chains OR independents find out about the book? There's not really a feed that pushes out all ISBNs of all upcoming books that any bookstore has access to (there are feeds, but they come directly from the publisher, so again, the self-published author is out of luck). It takes two or three or more sales reps for major houses to get buys of just 1,500 copies for Barnes & Noble, and those books are heavily discounted and returnable. No one is representing the self-published books to a buyer, which have none of the other benefits going for them. In addition, the marketing departments of major houses have been blanketing those buyers with advance copies and other marketing materials, and the publicity department has also been sending out advance copies to garner reviews and blurbs as well as secure shows like Oprah or NPR. Without all that muscle behind it, how would a store buyer (chain or independent) even hear about a self-published book?
This really cannot be overstated enough:
Also, to be frank, most self-published books are self-published because a traditional publisher wouldn't touch them. They are often badly written and look cheaply made, and expensive for what they are (over $20 for a crappy-looking paperback).
I also am not trying to shout No Self Publishing Ever! My imprint picks up several self-published books per year, and they tend to do quite well. It's a good tool for finding a publisher if traditional methods have failed, but it's not guaranteed, and the majority of books we buy come through agents.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 12:18 PM on February 18, 2009
If you do intend to make some sort of money off your book, self-publishing works best when your primary sales are going to come outside traditional book markets: for example, if you are a professional speaker, and your primary market is the people who hear you speak, it might make sense to self-publish because you don't need a traditional publisher's publicity department (your events publicize the books instead) or its sales department (you don't need to reach people through bookstores, and so don't need anyone to sell your book to them).
The key to self-publishing well, in this kind of situation, is to make the finished product look as professional as possible. Investing in a good book designer (for both the interior and the jacket) and a good editor can make a huge difference in how your book is perceived.
***
On another note, I have seen very occasional exceptions to the "no self-published books in bookstores" rule. In my hometown in Alabama, certain local luminaries who published books about the region or cookbooks on Southern cuisine were stocked in the local independent (until it eventually closed). However, you could often find more copies of these self-published books in stores that weren't primarily bookstores, like gift shops, the candy company, and paper stores. Because those stores worked on a different inventory model, they were better able to stock and sell self-published books. It's a different approach to bookselling, but one that works for that kind of local audience, I think.
posted by ocherdraco at 1:52 PM on February 18, 2009
The key to self-publishing well, in this kind of situation, is to make the finished product look as professional as possible. Investing in a good book designer (for both the interior and the jacket) and a good editor can make a huge difference in how your book is perceived.
***
On another note, I have seen very occasional exceptions to the "no self-published books in bookstores" rule. In my hometown in Alabama, certain local luminaries who published books about the region or cookbooks on Southern cuisine were stocked in the local independent (until it eventually closed). However, you could often find more copies of these self-published books in stores that weren't primarily bookstores, like gift shops, the candy company, and paper stores. Because those stores worked on a different inventory model, they were better able to stock and sell self-published books. It's a different approach to bookselling, but one that works for that kind of local audience, I think.
posted by ocherdraco at 1:52 PM on February 18, 2009
Can you explain why this is? If the book has an ISBN, and a distribution route, what's the difference.
A self-published book doesn't have a distribution route.
Also, by "Major" I'm assuming you mean B&N, Borders, etc. Not an independent bookstore, is that correct?
Chains and indies essentially buy their books the same way: a rep from the publisher meets with the buyer periodically and pitches them the entire catalog of books set to be published in a certain future time frame. Then there's a ton of follow-up communication. A buyer can't meet with every self-publisher to hear a pitch of a single book at a time, and furthermore a self-publisher can't meet with every buyer to pitch a single book at a time. And of course there's the whole returns thing. Devoting shelf space to an untested author is enough of a risk even when they know they can return the book if it doesn't sell.
I can only see an indie buying a self-published book if the owner knows the author, and/or there's a very specific niche that wouldn't work for a big publisher but makes sense on a small scale. For instance, a self-published book about the history of a small town might be on the shelf of that small town's bookstore. Or the bookshop in the Museum of 17th Century Clocks would probably take on your self-published A History of Clocks in the 17th Century. If it's well researched.
Most self-pubbed success stories I've personally witnessed were people with a large internet following selling their book to their fans online.
Anyway I assumed when Violet Hour said she had to disappoint people, she meant she's a book buyer and has to say "no thanks" to authors who are trying to sell their book to the store. And, sure, in theory, an indie can take a self-pubbed book now and then or whatever book they want. But can't take every book with an ISBN.
posted by lampoil at 4:52 PM on February 18, 2009
A self-published book doesn't have a distribution route.
Also, by "Major" I'm assuming you mean B&N, Borders, etc. Not an independent bookstore, is that correct?
Chains and indies essentially buy their books the same way: a rep from the publisher meets with the buyer periodically and pitches them the entire catalog of books set to be published in a certain future time frame. Then there's a ton of follow-up communication. A buyer can't meet with every self-publisher to hear a pitch of a single book at a time, and furthermore a self-publisher can't meet with every buyer to pitch a single book at a time. And of course there's the whole returns thing. Devoting shelf space to an untested author is enough of a risk even when they know they can return the book if it doesn't sell.
I can only see an indie buying a self-published book if the owner knows the author, and/or there's a very specific niche that wouldn't work for a big publisher but makes sense on a small scale. For instance, a self-published book about the history of a small town might be on the shelf of that small town's bookstore. Or the bookshop in the Museum of 17th Century Clocks would probably take on your self-published A History of Clocks in the 17th Century. If it's well researched.
Most self-pubbed success stories I've personally witnessed were people with a large internet following selling their book to their fans online.
Anyway I assumed when Violet Hour said she had to disappoint people, she meant she's a book buyer and has to say "no thanks" to authors who are trying to sell their book to the store. And, sure, in theory, an indie can take a self-pubbed book now and then or whatever book they want. But can't take every book with an ISBN.
posted by lampoil at 4:52 PM on February 18, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
Once the proposal is written, find an agent. Major publishers will not look at your work until you are agented, period. I work at one of the top four publishers in the US, and that's the only way we do business. Agents will vet your proposal, help you make it better, find the right editor for your work, and protect you during the negotiation process. They will also work with you throughout the entire span of getting the book out (usually 9-18 months after the contract is signed).
As you are searching for an agent, use the Marketplace to refine your search. Only send your ideas to agents who have expertise in the area you are interested in (meaning, send your different ideas to different agents). Good luck!
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 7:00 PM on February 17, 2009