Minority Threat
February 3, 2009 2:39 PM Subscribe
Were there any openly gay members of hardcore punk bands in the late 1970s and early 1980s?
Pat Smear? I was never really clear on his sexual preferences.
posted by Drainage! at 2:52 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by Drainage! at 2:52 PM on February 3, 2009
Bob Mould and Grant Hart of Husker Du, if you consider them to be hardcore punk?
posted by Infinite Jest at 2:56 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by Infinite Jest at 2:56 PM on February 3, 2009
I'm not sure he was openly out, but I always assumed Jello Biafra of the Dead Kennedys was gay.
posted by bonobothegreat at 2:57 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by bonobothegreat at 2:57 PM on February 3, 2009
Infinite Jest: "Bob Mould and Grant Hart of Husker Du, if you consider them to be hardcore punk?"
If you consider them to be openly gay. My understanding is that everyone who knew them knew they were gay - but they never acknowledged it for publication. It goes without saying: They have no obligation to. But you can't with justice credit them with as much openness as, say, Bronski Beat.
Listen to Land Speed Record and then see if you have any questions about whether they were hardcore punk.
posted by Joe Beese at 3:02 PM on February 3, 2009
If you consider them to be openly gay. My understanding is that everyone who knew them knew they were gay - but they never acknowledged it for publication. It goes without saying: They have no obligation to. But you can't with justice credit them with as much openness as, say, Bronski Beat.
Listen to Land Speed Record and then see if you have any questions about whether they were hardcore punk.
posted by Joe Beese at 3:02 PM on February 3, 2009
...but then, I guess I just assume everybody is gay.
posted by bonobothegreat at 3:02 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by bonobothegreat at 3:02 PM on February 3, 2009
I'm not sure he was openly out, but I always assumed Jello Biafra of the Dead Kennedys was gay.
Apparently not (about the tenth or so question down), but I can see the misunderstanding.
posted by Drainage! at 3:02 PM on February 3, 2009
Apparently not (about the tenth or so question down), but I can see the misunderstanding.
posted by Drainage! at 3:02 PM on February 3, 2009
Pansy Division, no? (or were they later?)
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:50 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:50 PM on February 3, 2009
If you consider them to be openly gay.
"According to Hart, both men took lovers on tour and their orientation was an open secret in the indie community. But most people who knew cared very little. Part of the reason it was never a big deal was that the band never emphasized sexuality - theirs or anyone else's - in their music or their performance. "It was very workmanlike," says their friend Julie Panebianco. "This is what we do - we come and we play and our sexuality has nothing to do with anything. And no one really did think it had anything to do with anything. It was just not an issue and consequently no one cared"
- From Michael Azerrad's brilliant book "Our Band Could Be Your Life - Scenes from the American Indie Underground 1981 - 1991"
So I suppose they weren't 'openly gay' if that term implies they were running around telling everyone they were, and making a fuss of it in interviews. Were they openly gay in the way that 99% or heterosexuals are openly straight? I'd reckon so.
posted by tim_in_oz at 4:01 PM on February 3, 2009
"According to Hart, both men took lovers on tour and their orientation was an open secret in the indie community. But most people who knew cared very little. Part of the reason it was never a big deal was that the band never emphasized sexuality - theirs or anyone else's - in their music or their performance. "It was very workmanlike," says their friend Julie Panebianco. "This is what we do - we come and we play and our sexuality has nothing to do with anything. And no one really did think it had anything to do with anything. It was just not an issue and consequently no one cared"
- From Michael Azerrad's brilliant book "Our Band Could Be Your Life - Scenes from the American Indie Underground 1981 - 1991"
So I suppose they weren't 'openly gay' if that term implies they were running around telling everyone they were, and making a fuss of it in interviews. Were they openly gay in the way that 99% or heterosexuals are openly straight? I'd reckon so.
posted by tim_in_oz at 4:01 PM on February 3, 2009
Not hardcore, but I'd hate to see a thread on being openly gay in the world of punk rock without a mention of Tom Robinson, of "Glad to Be Gay" fame (he now identifies as bi, not gay).
posted by scody at 4:33 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by scody at 4:33 PM on February 3, 2009
Pansy Division was later - late 80's. Openly, flamingly, happily gay, though.
posted by gingerbeer at 4:33 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by gingerbeer at 4:33 PM on February 3, 2009
Correction - Pansy Division started in '91. Seemed like they were around before that. My memory is going, along with my hearing.
posted by gingerbeer at 4:35 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by gingerbeer at 4:35 PM on February 3, 2009
Though it's outside your time-span, you might be interested in Tom Jennings's Homocore zine (88-91). Around about the same time several MRR columnists (Lawrence Livermore, Mykel Board, and a few more) were writing about their bisexual leanings/experiements.
posted by K.P. at 4:52 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by K.P. at 4:52 PM on February 3, 2009
tim_in_oz: " Were they openly gay in the way that 99% or heterosexuals are openly straight? I'd reckon so."
I'm in complete agreement with that statement. But you're comparing apples and oranges. To at least some degree, all performing musicians are public figures. It's one kind of action for Bob Mould, the paint department manager at Home Depot, to tell his boss he's gay. It's a much different kind of action for Bob Mould, the prominent indie musician, to tell his fans he's gay - especially in a time when the President refuses to say the word "AIDS" in public.
I repeat for emphasis: Bob Mould was under no obligation to tell anyone shit about his private life. But he had a particular opportunity to contribute to a civil rights struggle - an opportunity that your 99% did not have. And to my mind, that makes them not comparable in the way you're describing.
posted by Joe Beese at 5:16 PM on February 3, 2009
I'm in complete agreement with that statement. But you're comparing apples and oranges. To at least some degree, all performing musicians are public figures. It's one kind of action for Bob Mould, the paint department manager at Home Depot, to tell his boss he's gay. It's a much different kind of action for Bob Mould, the prominent indie musician, to tell his fans he's gay - especially in a time when the President refuses to say the word "AIDS" in public.
I repeat for emphasis: Bob Mould was under no obligation to tell anyone shit about his private life. But he had a particular opportunity to contribute to a civil rights struggle - an opportunity that your 99% did not have. And to my mind, that makes them not comparable in the way you're describing.
posted by Joe Beese at 5:16 PM on February 3, 2009
But you're comparing apples and oranges.
My issue is with the term 'open'. It seems to mean different things depending on your sexual orientation. If you're straight, being 'open' about your sexuality means that you carry on sexually as though it were no-one's business what you do between the sheets. If you're gay, being 'open' about your sexuality seems to involve varying levels of public disclosure, activism and flamboyant behaviour.
But this is a semantic debate. I think both of us are in violent agreement that Bob and Grant had every right to do exactly as they did. Let's hope that we're approaching an era when there's no need for any public figure to have to think otherwise.
posted by tim_in_oz at 6:20 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
My issue is with the term 'open'. It seems to mean different things depending on your sexual orientation. If you're straight, being 'open' about your sexuality means that you carry on sexually as though it were no-one's business what you do between the sheets. If you're gay, being 'open' about your sexuality seems to involve varying levels of public disclosure, activism and flamboyant behaviour.
But this is a semantic debate. I think both of us are in violent agreement that Bob and Grant had every right to do exactly as they did. Let's hope that we're approaching an era when there's no need for any public figure to have to think otherwise.
posted by tim_in_oz at 6:20 PM on February 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Gary Floyd of the Dicks, for one, along with the front men for the Big Boys and MDC, for starters.
That's pretty much what I came in here to say. I got to meet Gary Floyd when he was with Sister Double Happiness and we have kept in touch over the years. He has always been open about his sexuality. He's told me stories about being the only kid in high school that was openly gay, a communist and sporting a mohawk. And that was in Texas. Of course he was really good friends with Randy "Biscuit" Turner from the Big Boys who passed away a few years ago.
posted by Sailormom at 6:40 PM on February 3, 2009
That's pretty much what I came in here to say. I got to meet Gary Floyd when he was with Sister Double Happiness and we have kept in touch over the years. He has always been open about his sexuality. He's told me stories about being the only kid in high school that was openly gay, a communist and sporting a mohawk. And that was in Texas. Of course he was really good friends with Randy "Biscuit" Turner from the Big Boys who passed away a few years ago.
posted by Sailormom at 6:40 PM on February 3, 2009
I'm not sure he was openly out, but I always assumed Jello Biafra of the Dead Kennedys was gay.
He's not. He was married to a woman for part of the 80s, she even did some backing vocals on early Dead Kennedys stuff (that weird high voice you hear on songs like "Insight").
I repeat for emphasis: Bob Mould was under no obligation to tell anyone shit about his private life. But he had a particular opportunity to contribute to a civil rights struggle - an opportunity that your 99% did not have.
Bullshit. He wasn't obligated to be some kind of public civil rights advocate just because he was in a popular band. As far as "telling his fans", it was no secret, but he didn't open every show with "HEY LOOKA ME I'M LIKE TOTALLY GAY!" either. His sexuality is his own fucking business. He didn't even come out to his parents until the late 80s-early 90s. Maybe he wasn't comfortable with loudly and visibly proclaiming that he's gay. He still doesn't really make a big deal out of it. Again, it's his own business.
posted by DecemberBoy at 7:54 PM on February 3, 2009
He's not. He was married to a woman for part of the 80s, she even did some backing vocals on early Dead Kennedys stuff (that weird high voice you hear on songs like "Insight").
I repeat for emphasis: Bob Mould was under no obligation to tell anyone shit about his private life. But he had a particular opportunity to contribute to a civil rights struggle - an opportunity that your 99% did not have.
Bullshit. He wasn't obligated to be some kind of public civil rights advocate just because he was in a popular band. As far as "telling his fans", it was no secret, but he didn't open every show with "HEY LOOKA ME I'M LIKE TOTALLY GAY!" either. His sexuality is his own fucking business. He didn't even come out to his parents until the late 80s-early 90s. Maybe he wasn't comfortable with loudly and visibly proclaiming that he's gay. He still doesn't really make a big deal out of it. Again, it's his own business.
posted by DecemberBoy at 7:54 PM on February 3, 2009
Lotsa gayness in the mid-70s new york punk bands, but that's outside your scope.
I always thought that Ricky Williams from Sleepers was gay but I can't find any evidence of that.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:21 PM on February 3, 2009
I always thought that Ricky Williams from Sleepers was gay but I can't find any evidence of that.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:21 PM on February 3, 2009
Pat Smear had a lot of girlfriends in Hollywood for whatever that's worth.
posted by cazoo at 9:31 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by cazoo at 9:31 PM on February 3, 2009
Pete Shelley of the Buzzcocks.
posted by oneirodynia at 9:34 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by oneirodynia at 9:34 PM on February 3, 2009
In this San Francisco Bay Guardian article, Victor Krummenacher of Camper Van Beethoven and Jon Ginoli of Pansy Division talk about coming out in punk or indie bands during the 1980s. Victor says that it "sucked."
posted by doncoyote at 10:24 PM on February 3, 2009
posted by doncoyote at 10:24 PM on February 3, 2009
Pat Smear had a lot of girlfriends in Hollywood for whatever that's worth.
Darby Crash, however, was gay. He was very closeted, though. His "girlfriend" in Decline of Western Civilization is a friend playing the part.
I feel like there's someone really obvious that no one's mentioned so far. Maybe it'll come to me.
posted by DecemberBoy at 10:46 PM on February 3, 2009
Darby Crash, however, was gay. He was very closeted, though. His "girlfriend" in Decline of Western Civilization is a friend playing the part.
I feel like there's someone really obvious that no one's mentioned so far. Maybe it'll come to me.
posted by DecemberBoy at 10:46 PM on February 3, 2009
Tried to find the interview i remember from way, way back where Grant Hart was asked if he and Bob Mould were going out and he answered, apparently, truthfully no.
I am sure it is an NME interview from mid 80's . If any one finds it ,it has the following joke in it as well " Man walks in to a butcher shop and asks how good is the meat here?" Butcher replies " You cant beat the meat here " . Man takes hands out of his pockets " Thank you and good night.
Couldn't find the interview on Daves site but i know i have a cutout somewhere back in the UK.
posted by stuartmm at 11:53 PM on February 3, 2009
I am sure it is an NME interview from mid 80's . If any one finds it ,it has the following joke in it as well " Man walks in to a butcher shop and asks how good is the meat here?" Butcher replies " You cant beat the meat here " . Man takes hands out of his pockets " Thank you and good night.
Couldn't find the interview on Daves site but i know i have a cutout somewhere back in the UK.
posted by stuartmm at 11:53 PM on February 3, 2009
Surprised no one's mentioned Wayne/Jayne County. Probably the most famous queer person in the NYC 70s punk scene. Here she is doing "Are you man enough to be a woman?" around that time.
posted by mediareport at 5:45 AM on February 4, 2009
posted by mediareport at 5:45 AM on February 4, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by AJaffe at 2:48 PM on February 3, 2009