Which of these specific iPhone issues are most or least likely to change soon?
December 13, 2008 2:44 PM
Of these iPhone OS issues, which are likely -- realistically -- to be addressed anytime soon in Apple's own OS upgrades?
I'm asking to see whether Apple fans who follow the trends more closely than I do have guesses re. whether any issue below is especially likely (*or* especially unlikely; either answer would be valuable) to change anytime soon.
(In this case I'm not seeking "here's something else wrong with the iPhone" or "get an X instead" answers -- I've done a good amount of iPhone-or-not thinking and these are a few things I care about most.)
1) almost no system-level ability to manipulate text (can't select a block of text, so can't cut/copy/paste or even delete a block of text without pressing the delete key for each character)
2) iCal app doesn't include a view by week, only by day or month
3) iCal app apparently doesn't correctly display multiple calendars (colors) at once (?), and appointments newly created on the phone can only be one calendar/color (?)
4) very little control over organization of apps & app icons (the standard icons can't be hidden, deleted or put into categories; different category-based screens or sets of apps aren't possible)
5) alert sounds are customizable by contact for voice calls, but not for sms.
I'm asking to see whether Apple fans who follow the trends more closely than I do have guesses re. whether any issue below is especially likely (*or* especially unlikely; either answer would be valuable) to change anytime soon.
(In this case I'm not seeking "here's something else wrong with the iPhone" or "get an X instead" answers -- I've done a good amount of iPhone-or-not thinking and these are a few things I care about most.)
1) almost no system-level ability to manipulate text (can't select a block of text, so can't cut/copy/paste or even delete a block of text without pressing the delete key for each character)
2) iCal app doesn't include a view by week, only by day or month
3) iCal app apparently doesn't correctly display multiple calendars (colors) at once (?), and appointments newly created on the phone can only be one calendar/color (?)
4) very little control over organization of apps & app icons (the standard icons can't be hidden, deleted or put into categories; different category-based screens or sets of apps aren't possible)
5) alert sounds are customizable by contact for voice calls, but not for sms.
I wouldn't expect 4, and wouldn't hold my breath for 5. 3 seems like a reasonable expectation. 2... not sure. Actually don't really expect it, because if it had an easy solution, it'd already be there, and it's probably pretty low-priority. 1 had better happen soon, particularly for copy/paste; it's difficult from a UI perspective, but I think nearly inevitable due to its continued lamented absence.
posted by Tomorrowful at 2:56 PM on December 13, 2008
posted by Tomorrowful at 2:56 PM on December 13, 2008
If you jailbreak (remove Apple's lockdown on) your iPhone, (4) is a completely solved problem. Due to Apple's interest in maintaining a uniform look and feel for iPhones, though, I wouldn't expect an official "fix" for this to be forthcoming.
posted by killdevil at 3:22 PM on December 13, 2008
posted by killdevil at 3:22 PM on December 13, 2008
For 2) Not to be snarky, but what advantages does your ideal week view have that the current List view doesn't? IMO the List view is easier to understand and more flexible..
posted by suedehead at 3:31 PM on December 13, 2008
posted by suedehead at 3:31 PM on December 13, 2008
I think they haven't done copy/paste yet because they CAN'T. The iPhone wasn't really designed for running background processes. In my view it is a pseudo-smartphone. The phone gets a huge amount of flak for the copy/paste thing and if they could implement it they would have already.
posted by GleepGlop at 3:41 PM on December 13, 2008
posted by GleepGlop at 3:41 PM on December 13, 2008
There is actually a Java-based partial solution to the cut and paste annoyance. I read about it on Lifehacker earlier today but haven't had a chance to try it out yet. It only works in Safari and Mail apparently but a partial fix is better than no fix. And the $5 to remove the adver-footer is kind of annoying but still, it is a solution.
I would like categories as well. It would make it easy to go from work mode to not work mode. Plus its just annoying to not be able to delete apps that I have zero use for (I'm looking at you little weather app).
I'd like to add that I really wish Notes would sync to my computer. I use Notes all the time to record site settings and its kind of a pain to always have to refer to them on the phone when a printout would just be easier.
posted by fenriq at 3:51 PM on December 13, 2008
I would like categories as well. It would make it easy to go from work mode to not work mode. Plus its just annoying to not be able to delete apps that I have zero use for (I'm looking at you little weather app).
I'd like to add that I really wish Notes would sync to my computer. I use Notes all the time to record site settings and its kind of a pain to always have to refer to them on the phone when a printout would just be easier.
posted by fenriq at 3:51 PM on December 13, 2008
EXCELLENT, neustile. Thank you! When I was trying an iPhone, an Apple Store employee told me you can't choose the calendar for newly created events, but possibly he didn't understand what I was asking.
suedehead, I care about graphic week view because day or list views don't come close to it for eyeballing upcoming weeks and coordinating in the moment -- finding meeting times with other people who also have complex schedules (especially because I use the different colors to indicate the type and mandatoryness of all my events).
posted by kalapierson at 3:54 PM on December 13, 2008
suedehead, I care about graphic week view because day or list views don't come close to it for eyeballing upcoming weeks and coordinating in the moment -- finding meeting times with other people who also have complex schedules (especially because I use the different colors to indicate the type and mandatoryness of all my events).
posted by kalapierson at 3:54 PM on December 13, 2008
I think they haven't done copy/paste yet because they CAN'T. The iPhone wasn't really designed for running background processes.
Entirely untrue. iPhone OS runs a somewhat-modified Darwin (Unix) kernel, very similar to the one that runs Mac OS X. The process model is unchanged, afaik, and many background processes run including the phone/SMS, iTunes, Clock (alarms), and others.
Apps from the App Store can't run in the background, but that's an attempt to shield users from lack-of-memory problems (hence no need for users to have to run Process Manager on their phone) and apps using up battery in the background. Basically Apple trusts their own apps to behave but not those of 3rd parties. This is a pragmatic engineering choice, and not necessarily the best one: perhaps someday we'll see quotas/etc allowing some sort of continued processing in the background. I hope so, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Anyway, the lack of copy/paste is clearly a choice of prioritization and/or just not having a good method figured out for doing it (yet?). Once they choose a way, of course, they're committed and won't easily be able to change it for a very long time.
posted by BaxterG4 at 4:14 PM on December 13, 2008
Entirely untrue. iPhone OS runs a somewhat-modified Darwin (Unix) kernel, very similar to the one that runs Mac OS X. The process model is unchanged, afaik, and many background processes run including the phone/SMS, iTunes, Clock (alarms), and others.
Apps from the App Store can't run in the background, but that's an attempt to shield users from lack-of-memory problems (hence no need for users to have to run Process Manager on their phone) and apps using up battery in the background. Basically Apple trusts their own apps to behave but not those of 3rd parties. This is a pragmatic engineering choice, and not necessarily the best one: perhaps someday we'll see quotas/etc allowing some sort of continued processing in the background. I hope so, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Anyway, the lack of copy/paste is clearly a choice of prioritization and/or just not having a good method figured out for doing it (yet?). Once they choose a way, of course, they're committed and won't easily be able to change it for a very long time.
posted by BaxterG4 at 4:14 PM on December 13, 2008
Holding backspace for a long time causes deletion of entire words.
posted by low affect at 4:24 PM on December 13, 2008
posted by low affect at 4:24 PM on December 13, 2008
I think they haven't done copy/paste yet because they CAN'T. The iPhone wasn't really designed for running background processes. In my view it is a pseudo-smartphone.
Ridiculously wrong. It's OS X, and it already does a lot of background processes (push mail, over the air syncing, the entire MP3 playing iPod part...). Apple has been reluctant to let THIRD PARTIES take over background processes, since they're worried about bad code grinding the thing to a halt and ruining the overall phone experience. But they can most certainly do them.
As for OP's questions (I read a lot)...
1) Very soon, probably in the next update.
2) Did not notice that. I doubt it's a priority.
3) Already works for me. What doesn't work for you?
4) No automatic sorting, but you can move icons to other screens or on/off the full-time taskbar thing. I do have mine 'sorted' into games and utilities and web shortcuts and such, though I sort them by dragging them around. My last screen of icons is crap I never use, like YouTube.
5) I haven't seen this asked-for until now. It's a good idea, so I'd guess "eventually".
posted by rokusan at 5:01 PM on December 13, 2008
Ridiculously wrong. It's OS X, and it already does a lot of background processes (push mail, over the air syncing, the entire MP3 playing iPod part...). Apple has been reluctant to let THIRD PARTIES take over background processes, since they're worried about bad code grinding the thing to a halt and ruining the overall phone experience. But they can most certainly do them.
As for OP's questions (I read a lot)...
1) Very soon, probably in the next update.
2) Did not notice that. I doubt it's a priority.
3) Already works for me. What doesn't work for you?
4) No automatic sorting, but you can move icons to other screens or on/off the full-time taskbar thing. I do have mine 'sorted' into games and utilities and web shortcuts and such, though I sort them by dragging them around. My last screen of icons is crap I never use, like YouTube.
5) I haven't seen this asked-for until now. It's a good idea, so I'd guess "eventually".
posted by rokusan at 5:01 PM on December 13, 2008
None of these questions can be answered with any authority by anyone who wouldn't be fired for answering them.
Displaying multiple calendars does work, but does have a problem: they don't display with the correct color (as chosen in iCal) if you don't use MobileMe. This has been a "known issue" for a while. I'm surprised it hasn't been fixed.
Copy/Paste is certainly something Apple could add (there was actually a clever third-party framework that developers could implement, but it took advantage of an OS bug that has been patched), and it's hard to imagine Apple hasn't been working on it. The best-informed guess I've read is that Apple hasn't figured out the appropriate gestural interface.
#4, #5: probably not anytime soon. These sound like they fall under the category of Too Complicated, which is anathema at Apple.
posted by adamrice at 6:40 PM on December 13, 2008
Displaying multiple calendars does work, but does have a problem: they don't display with the correct color (as chosen in iCal) if you don't use MobileMe. This has been a "known issue" for a while. I'm surprised it hasn't been fixed.
Copy/Paste is certainly something Apple could add (there was actually a clever third-party framework that developers could implement, but it took advantage of an OS bug that has been patched), and it's hard to imagine Apple hasn't been working on it. The best-informed guess I've read is that Apple hasn't figured out the appropriate gestural interface.
#4, #5: probably not anytime soon. These sound like they fall under the category of Too Complicated, which is anathema at Apple.
posted by adamrice at 6:40 PM on December 13, 2008
The thing about copy/paste is while it is entirely possible to do (as BaxsterG4 and rokusan have already explained), it's not entirely necessary.
Think of right-clicking. All Macs ship with only one mouse button, and the reason is because the OS and applications are simple enough that you only need one mouse button to use them effectively. A lot of people have reservations about Macs because of the lack of right-click, but in truth, it's just not really needed.*
The OS on the iPhone has been thought out with enough care that for most things, you don't need copy/paste. For example, it automatically detects phone numbers or emails in things like text messages, it makes adding them to your address book easy. It has actions for photos, making it easy to throw them into an email to send to a friends. Many apps and web pages are also tightly integrated, like the Facebook app that lets you call friends you don't have in your address book by only tapping their number.
If the lack of copy/paste is holding you back from buying an iPhone, you should reconsider. You might not need it as much as you think. :)
(Full Disclosure: I work for Apple.)
* Power users will argue that they do need right-clicking, and that may be true of them, but the majority of users (and the vast majority of mobile phone users) are not power users.
posted by patr1ck at 7:14 PM on December 13, 2008
Think of right-clicking. All Macs ship with only one mouse button, and the reason is because the OS and applications are simple enough that you only need one mouse button to use them effectively. A lot of people have reservations about Macs because of the lack of right-click, but in truth, it's just not really needed.*
The OS on the iPhone has been thought out with enough care that for most things, you don't need copy/paste. For example, it automatically detects phone numbers or emails in things like text messages, it makes adding them to your address book easy. It has actions for photos, making it easy to throw them into an email to send to a friends. Many apps and web pages are also tightly integrated, like the Facebook app that lets you call friends you don't have in your address book by only tapping their number.
If the lack of copy/paste is holding you back from buying an iPhone, you should reconsider. You might not need it as much as you think. :)
(Full Disclosure: I work for Apple.)
* Power users will argue that they do need right-clicking, and that may be true of them, but the majority of users (and the vast majority of mobile phone users) are not power users.
posted by patr1ck at 7:14 PM on December 13, 2008
Displaying multiple calendars does work, but does have a problem: they don't display with the correct color (as chosen in iCal) if you don't use MobileMe. This has been a "known issue" for a while. I'm surprised it hasn't been fixed.
DAMN. Okay, it seems neustiles is using MobileMe? (Something I'm definitely not interested in.)
Back to the drawing board on that one. :(
The OS on the iPhone has been thought out with enough care that for most things, you don't need copy/paste.
I need copy/paste. I need at least a *BASIC* pda. I need to be able to manipulate text files on my handheld!
I don't mean to single you out, but since you mention that you work for Apple, that attitude on their part ("We know what you need even when so many of you are telling us otherwise") is precisely what's keeping some people away from iPhone despite its obvious benefits. It's kind of insane that it's looking like I will have to stick with BlackBerry just to interact in the most basic way with plain text files. :(
posted by kalapierson at 7:31 PM on December 13, 2008
DAMN. Okay, it seems neustiles is using MobileMe? (Something I'm definitely not interested in.)
Back to the drawing board on that one. :(
The OS on the iPhone has been thought out with enough care that for most things, you don't need copy/paste.
I need copy/paste. I need at least a *BASIC* pda. I need to be able to manipulate text files on my handheld!
I don't mean to single you out, but since you mention that you work for Apple, that attitude on their part ("We know what you need even when so many of you are telling us otherwise") is precisely what's keeping some people away from iPhone despite its obvious benefits. It's kind of insane that it's looking like I will have to stick with BlackBerry just to interact in the most basic way with plain text files. :(
posted by kalapierson at 7:31 PM on December 13, 2008
All Macs ship with only one mouse button
That's not really true any more. Apple's current mouse includes "touch-sensitive technology [to] detect right and left click." It may not have visible left and right mouse buttons, but it does have the functionality of left and right mouse buttons.
I always viewed the Mighty Mouse as Steve Jobs' way of adding the functionality that people had been demanding for years without having to admit he was wrong. Maybe Apple will add cut and paste to the iPhone, but they'll do it with drag-and-drop or something, and they'll continue to insist that cut and paste are unnecessary.
(disclosure: I'm a former Apple employee and a current iPhone owner and iPhone developer.)
posted by alms at 8:40 PM on December 13, 2008
That's not really true any more. Apple's current mouse includes "touch-sensitive technology [to] detect right and left click." It may not have visible left and right mouse buttons, but it does have the functionality of left and right mouse buttons.
I always viewed the Mighty Mouse as Steve Jobs' way of adding the functionality that people had been demanding for years without having to admit he was wrong. Maybe Apple will add cut and paste to the iPhone, but they'll do it with drag-and-drop or something, and they'll continue to insist that cut and paste are unnecessary.
(disclosure: I'm a former Apple employee and a current iPhone owner and iPhone developer.)
posted by alms at 8:40 PM on December 13, 2008
I think they haven't done copy/paste yet because they CAN'T. The iPhone wasn't really designed for running background processes. In my view it is a pseudo-smartphone. The phone gets a huge amount of flak for the copy/paste thing and if they could implement it they would have already.
Hi, there. Please don't answer questions if you don't know the answer. This site is not Slashdot and is not a soapbox for anti-Apple twits. Thanks.
That said, Apple is working on copy-and-paste and already has the underlying feature in at least some of its software, albeit disabled. If you need it right now, the iPhone is not for you, because the right touch gesture probably hasn't been worked out. If you can wait for Apple to release this feature in a future software update, then you will likely get copy-and-paste.
Save the pseudo-smartphone garbage for Slashdot, thanks.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:37 PM on December 13, 2008
Hi, there. Please don't answer questions if you don't know the answer. This site is not Slashdot and is not a soapbox for anti-Apple twits. Thanks.
That said, Apple is working on copy-and-paste and already has the underlying feature in at least some of its software, albeit disabled. If you need it right now, the iPhone is not for you, because the right touch gesture probably hasn't been worked out. If you can wait for Apple to release this feature in a future software update, then you will likely get copy-and-paste.
Save the pseudo-smartphone garbage for Slashdot, thanks.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:37 PM on December 13, 2008
For number four, what about moving apps around to different screens doesn't work for you? You can't get rid of the built in apps, sure, but you can relegate them to the ends of the earth (aka the last screen of apps). You can also put whatever apps you want on the "dock" at the bottom.
posted by MadamM at 10:02 PM on December 13, 2008
posted by MadamM at 10:02 PM on December 13, 2008
4) the organization of the home screen is the most likely...that is to say....zero.
I don't know. Nobody answering this thread knows.
none of these thigns are trully 'killers" about buying the damnt him.
posted by filmgeek at 10:06 PM on December 13, 2008
I don't know. Nobody answering this thread knows.
none of these thigns are trully 'killers" about buying the damnt him.
posted by filmgeek at 10:06 PM on December 13, 2008
Aha, yes I am using MobileMe too (got a new free subscription with the new 3G) but I probably won't renew it when it runs out. All I use is bookmark and calendar syncing, and realistically, I don't need those synced over the air -- the next time I plug it back in will be fine for me. So that's why I have never seen this color bug.
Copy/paste is a funny one, as aims points out. I have read so much bemoaning of it online, but have never actually run into a single case in day to day use when I've wanted it. Selecting text, on the other hand (like deleting the middle part of a long URL) I have wanted often.
posted by rokusan at 6:24 AM on December 14, 2008
Copy/paste is a funny one, as aims points out. I have read so much bemoaning of it online, but have never actually run into a single case in day to day use when I've wanted it. Selecting text, on the other hand (like deleting the middle part of a long URL) I have wanted often.
posted by rokusan at 6:24 AM on December 14, 2008
I need copy/paste. I need at least a *BASIC* pda. I need to be able to manipulate text files on my handheld!
If your interest in copy/paste is primarily in regard to manipulation of text files, you might want to look at some apps like TextGuru [iTunes] that are dedicated to text editing and have internal copy/paste functionality. I believe there are others that are similar, but I haven't personally used any of them and it was the first that came up in my search of the App Store.
posted by BaxterG4 at 9:00 AM on December 14, 2008
If your interest in copy/paste is primarily in regard to manipulation of text files, you might want to look at some apps like TextGuru [iTunes] that are dedicated to text editing and have internal copy/paste functionality. I believe there are others that are similar, but I haven't personally used any of them and it was the first that came up in my search of the App Store.
posted by BaxterG4 at 9:00 AM on December 14, 2008
BaxterG4 beat me to it. I knew I'd seen copy-paste in some apps. There's just no system-wide clipboard for moving text between apps, and you'd be hard pressed to find a way that any of the built-in apps would really benefit much from it.
Unless you're a relentless URL manipulator like me that is.
posted by rokusan at 10:58 AM on December 14, 2008
Unless you're a relentless URL manipulator like me that is.
posted by rokusan at 10:58 AM on December 14, 2008
Update, now that #1 (the Holy-Grailiest one) has been solved!
1) as of late January, there is true system-level (cross-app) selection, deletion, and cut/copy/paste for jailbroken iPhones, via the Clippy app in Cydia.
2) iCal app doesn't include a view by week and no third party has any fixes for this.
3) iCal app definitely does not correctly sync categories' colors without MobileMe, and Apple's official (outrageous) answer is that this is not a bug; you must subscribe to MobileMe for $100/yr if you want the colors to sync. There is one fantastically kludgy way to get it right: because the iPhone cal randomly assigns colors, you have to sync your categories one by one until you get them all right (sync with only the first category enabled til it's the color you want, then enable syncing for the second category too and sync til that's the color you want, etc.).
4) there's a great variety of control over organization of apps & app icons for jailbroken phones: BossPrefs will non-permanently hide any app icon, including the undeletable system icons; iBlank creates blank icons you can use for spacing and easy-to-eyeball layouts; a few apps let you radically change the springboard concept by putting app icons into folders; and WinterBoard gives you some very nice interface & aesthetic improvements.
5) there's no way to customize alert sounds by contact for sms.
Overall, I think the iPhone is a remarkable piece of design and a remarkable piece of hardware, and I really look forward to more issue fixes from the sea of people working on apps & utilities, officially and otherwise.
posted by kalapierson at 10:19 AM on February 3, 2009
1) as of late January, there is true system-level (cross-app) selection, deletion, and cut/copy/paste for jailbroken iPhones, via the Clippy app in Cydia.
2) iCal app doesn't include a view by week and no third party has any fixes for this.
3) iCal app definitely does not correctly sync categories' colors without MobileMe, and Apple's official (outrageous) answer is that this is not a bug; you must subscribe to MobileMe for $100/yr if you want the colors to sync. There is one fantastically kludgy way to get it right: because the iPhone cal randomly assigns colors, you have to sync your categories one by one until you get them all right (sync with only the first category enabled til it's the color you want, then enable syncing for the second category too and sync til that's the color you want, etc.).
4) there's a great variety of control over organization of apps & app icons for jailbroken phones: BossPrefs will non-permanently hide any app icon, including the undeletable system icons; iBlank creates blank icons you can use for spacing and easy-to-eyeball layouts; a few apps let you radically change the springboard concept by putting app icons into folders; and WinterBoard gives you some very nice interface & aesthetic improvements.
5) there's no way to customize alert sounds by contact for sms.
Overall, I think the iPhone is a remarkable piece of design and a remarkable piece of hardware, and I really look forward to more issue fixes from the sea of people working on apps & utilities, officially and otherwise.
posted by kalapierson at 10:19 AM on February 3, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by kalapierson at 2:52 PM on December 13, 2008