Can my composter be turned away from the dark (and smelly) side of putrefaction?
December 4, 2008 11:49 AM
When good composters go bad, can a putrefying composter be turned back to composting?
So I've got a composter that we've been adding food scraps, lawn clippings and other delicious organic goodies to for a year or two now. But somewhere along the line, things have gone sideways because we aren't producing compost but we are housing lots of bugs and a pretty horrendous smell that indicates putrefecation and not composting.
How can I get my composter on the right track and actually composting again? Do I have to remove everything in it now, bury it somewhere and start fresh?
As an aside, I really like saying the word putrefy.
So I've got a composter that we've been adding food scraps, lawn clippings and other delicious organic goodies to for a year or two now. But somewhere along the line, things have gone sideways because we aren't producing compost but we are housing lots of bugs and a pretty horrendous smell that indicates putrefecation and not composting.
How can I get my composter on the right track and actually composting again? Do I have to remove everything in it now, bury it somewhere and start fresh?
As an aside, I really like saying the word putrefy.
Yep, mix in some fallen tree leaves or a little bit of sawdust. You've got too much nitrogen-rich material ("greens") and not enough carbon-rich material ("browns).
posted by jon1270 at 12:00 PM on December 4, 2008
posted by jon1270 at 12:00 PM on December 4, 2008
Depends on what it smells like. Does it smell like ammonia? Too much nitrogen. Add leaves. Lots of them. Mix well. Make sure food is buried.
Smells like rotting food? The food wasn't covered with leaves properly. Also, you might be adding the wrong kind of food. I shy away from adding cooked stuff; it doesn't decompose so much as it rots. No dairy, no meat.
Bugs are not bad. Bugs help the process along, because they eat the decomposing stuff. However, if you've got maggots, you've got a problem. Again, the food isn't covered well enough; flies are getting to it. This is bad.
Sounds like you can rescue the pile by adding lots of leaves and stirring more often than you have been. (Did it turn into a wet, matted mass? There's another potential problem. If no air is getting in, the whole thing is going to putrefy.) That is, unless any of it is moldy. If you see mold, start over.
posted by mudpuppie at 12:03 PM on December 4, 2008
Smells like rotting food? The food wasn't covered with leaves properly. Also, you might be adding the wrong kind of food. I shy away from adding cooked stuff; it doesn't decompose so much as it rots. No dairy, no meat.
Bugs are not bad. Bugs help the process along, because they eat the decomposing stuff. However, if you've got maggots, you've got a problem. Again, the food isn't covered well enough; flies are getting to it. This is bad.
Sounds like you can rescue the pile by adding lots of leaves and stirring more often than you have been. (Did it turn into a wet, matted mass? There's another potential problem. If no air is getting in, the whole thing is going to putrefy.) That is, unless any of it is moldy. If you see mold, start over.
posted by mudpuppie at 12:03 PM on December 4, 2008
Is it wet and slimy, possibly whiffing of ammonia? You've probably got far more "green" than "brown" in it: i.e., wet stuff like grass, veggie peelings, etc. instead of raked-up leaves, hay, shredded newspaper, and other dry things. The pile won't heat up if it's too wet - the brown materials are necessary for the optimal ratios of nitrogen, carbon, air, and water, which get your pile heating up and cooking away happily.
Quick fix: turn it out of the bin with a spade or pitchfork, getting some air into it. When you put it back, start with a layer of raked leaves and layer it up like a cake, making the brown layers twice the depth of the wet anaerobic stuff from your bin. You may need to turn it a few more times until it starts to smell right. (I go by smell rather than heat; you can have a decent pile that never heats up, but a stinky pile is always on the wrong track.)
CAVEAT: If, at any point, you have put animal products in this pile (meat, fat, bone, skin), start over. While meat *can* be composted, it takes a long time, attracts scavengers, and smells even worse than an anaerobic plant-based pile.
posted by catlet at 12:04 PM on December 4, 2008
Quick fix: turn it out of the bin with a spade or pitchfork, getting some air into it. When you put it back, start with a layer of raked leaves and layer it up like a cake, making the brown layers twice the depth of the wet anaerobic stuff from your bin. You may need to turn it a few more times until it starts to smell right. (I go by smell rather than heat; you can have a decent pile that never heats up, but a stinky pile is always on the wrong track.)
CAVEAT: If, at any point, you have put animal products in this pile (meat, fat, bone, skin), start over. While meat *can* be composted, it takes a long time, attracts scavengers, and smells even worse than an anaerobic plant-based pile.
posted by catlet at 12:04 PM on December 4, 2008
On preview: I'd counsel against sawdust. Its problems:
1) Takes a long, long, long time to break down.
2) May come from plywood, particle board, or treated wood. May add chemicals to the compost pile that are unwelcome.
3) Sawdust likes to clump. That's why they make particle board out of it.
Leaves are a much better bet. Dry ones, preferable shredded. (I use the vacuum attachment on my leaf blower. It shreds those fuckers right good.)
posted by mudpuppie at 12:05 PM on December 4, 2008
1) Takes a long, long, long time to break down.
2) May come from plywood, particle board, or treated wood. May add chemicals to the compost pile that are unwelcome.
3) Sawdust likes to clump. That's why they make particle board out of it.
Leaves are a much better bet. Dry ones, preferable shredded. (I use the vacuum attachment on my leaf blower. It shreds those fuckers right good.)
posted by mudpuppie at 12:05 PM on December 4, 2008
Also, if you're at all interested in housing some worms, they're pretty handy at clearing out that kind of putrescence. They work quickly, too.
posted by eralclare at 12:06 PM on December 4, 2008
posted by eralclare at 12:06 PM on December 4, 2008
We just throw our compost in a big pile over the winter and by the time spring comes around, it has turned into a pile of putrefying sludge. I find that starting a new pile by layering the sludgy compost in a 1:1:1 ratio with dirt and dry leaves (or dry grass clippings) gets things back on track quite well.
posted by ssg at 12:09 PM on December 4, 2008
posted by ssg at 12:09 PM on December 4, 2008
Yep, add carbon and aerate it. Bugs are good- in fact, if your pile is putrefying, bugs are extra helpful; insect frass can increase soil N and C, and NH4+ in particular.
posted by oneirodynia at 12:48 PM on December 4, 2008
posted by oneirodynia at 12:48 PM on December 4, 2008
Shredded newspaper works too.
posted by electroboy at 1:00 PM on December 4, 2008
posted by electroboy at 1:00 PM on December 4, 2008
Actually, sawdust breaks down quite quickly when there's enough nitrogen around, and they only make particleboard out of it after mixing in a lot of glue. That said, mudpuppie is right that you would want to avoid sawdust from engineered materials like plywood, mdf or particleboard, and also steer clear of walnut sawdust. Leaves are easier to work with, assuming you can get them.
posted by jon1270 at 1:00 PM on December 4, 2008
posted by jon1270 at 1:00 PM on December 4, 2008
Just to note, I've never added animal by-products, bones, poop or anything with oil in it.
Thanks for the good advice so far. My problem (though I hesitate to call it a problem) is that I don't really have any leaves to put into it. But I'm sure some of my neighbors would be willing to help me out there.
posted by fenriq at 1:00 PM on December 4, 2008
Thanks for the good advice so far. My problem (though I hesitate to call it a problem) is that I don't really have any leaves to put into it. But I'm sure some of my neighbors would be willing to help me out there.
posted by fenriq at 1:00 PM on December 4, 2008
I don't really have any leaves to put into it
Right now all our neighbors are putting out bags & bags of leaves next to the curb. I just stop by & pick up all the bags I can stand.
Not sure if that's a reasonable possibility in northern CA where you seem to be . . .
posted by flug at 1:45 PM on December 4, 2008
Right now all our neighbors are putting out bags & bags of leaves next to the curb. I just stop by & pick up all the bags I can stand.
Not sure if that's a reasonable possibility in northern CA where you seem to be . . .
posted by flug at 1:45 PM on December 4, 2008
Shredded pulp-paper egg cartons work really well as 'brown' material.
Be careful with adding newspaper, as many of the inks are toxic.
I see bags of leaves offered in the free section of Craig's List all the time here in Austin - maybe it's the same where you are?
Earth worms are excellent additions to your composting, as they stir everything up, aerate, and add their hugely nutritive waste to the mix. And if you get overage, people will buy them (or take them off your hands for free or barter, if you want to dump the profit motive).
posted by batmonkey at 1:47 PM on December 4, 2008
Be careful with adding newspaper, as many of the inks are toxic.
I see bags of leaves offered in the free section of Craig's List all the time here in Austin - maybe it's the same where you are?
Earth worms are excellent additions to your composting, as they stir everything up, aerate, and add their hugely nutritive waste to the mix. And if you get overage, people will buy them (or take them off your hands for free or barter, if you want to dump the profit motive).
posted by batmonkey at 1:47 PM on December 4, 2008
Be careful with adding newspaper, as many of the inks are toxic.
Not true. Regular newsprint inks are mostly soy.
posted by electroboy at 2:02 PM on December 4, 2008
Not true. Regular newsprint inks are mostly soy.
posted by electroboy at 2:02 PM on December 4, 2008
Second shredded newspaper.
Another quick solution is to stop by your grocery store and get a bag of 'Feline Pine' or 'Swheat' or 'Daily News' kitty litter. Works great as 'brown stuff'.
posted by Arthur Dent at 2:10 PM on December 4, 2008
Another quick solution is to stop by your grocery store and get a bag of 'Feline Pine' or 'Swheat' or 'Daily News' kitty litter. Works great as 'brown stuff'.
posted by Arthur Dent at 2:10 PM on December 4, 2008
In which case, soy's estrogen factor is then necessary to take into account.
But that's quibbling in defense of my mistake, I fear ;]
I can confirm from a friend's attempts at composting that the shiny sales circulars and glossy cardstock in Sunday papers are not good in compost. Beyond the metallic, coloured inks, they just don't break down.
posted by batmonkey at 2:44 PM on December 4, 2008
But that's quibbling in defense of my mistake, I fear ;]
I can confirm from a friend's attempts at composting that the shiny sales circulars and glossy cardstock in Sunday papers are not good in compost. Beyond the metallic, coloured inks, they just don't break down.
posted by batmonkey at 2:44 PM on December 4, 2008
Is this one of those covered composting bins? You have to be pretty vigilant about aeration with those.
Once you've taken the excellent advice above re. adding leaves and mixing things up, you will probably find that the bin heats up quite a lot and may steam for a couple weeks. This is good for composting, but will be too hot for worms. So, wait until any steam has stopped happening, then toss a thousand composting worms (reds, blues and tigers) into the bin.
After the worms are in, you can start adding scraps again. The best scraps-for-worms handling method I've come up with at my place goes like this:
On a kitchen bench, I have a plain flat cafeteria tray. On the tray, I have newspaper about 10 sheets thick. Scraps go in a pile on the newspaper, and a large mesh colander goes over the top of the pile to keep flies, mice etc. out of it.
When the pile gets big enough (usually one or two days), I lay out two sheets of broadsheet newspaper, put the tray on the end of that, then slide it out from under its newspaper liner so that the liner and the scraps pile are now sitting on the broadsheet. Then I wrap that whole thing up tightly, tucking in the ends as I go, like a parcel of fish and chips. It usually ends up a little bigger than a house brick.
That whole parcel then goes in the worm farm as-is. The newspaper acts as "brown" to balance up the food scraps "green". The gaps between the housebrick-sized parcels let air deep enough into the worm farm to keep the critters happy. Critters don't get access to the insides of the parcels until the newspaper has gone properly soggy, which takes about as long as the contents take to start rotting. Worms use the spaces between soggy newspaper layers for breeding sites.
It's pretty rare to find anything still resembling a parcel deeper than a foot or so into the bin.
I know the idea of keeping your scraps on the kitchen bench sounds kind of gross, but the fact that they're in an essentially open pile stops them fermenting and stinking the way they so often do in the usual covered scraps bucket; they look much more like food leftovers than garbage. They also don't create the slimy mess that needs to be scrubbed off the inside of every scraps bucket I've ever seen - an occasional wipe-over of the colander rim is really all that's required.
I've also found that I can get away with including citrus peels and onions, which are traditionally verboten in worm farms. The worms just avoid breaking into parcels containing too much of these until they've broken down enough to be harmless.
posted by flabdablet at 3:28 PM on December 4, 2008
Once you've taken the excellent advice above re. adding leaves and mixing things up, you will probably find that the bin heats up quite a lot and may steam for a couple weeks. This is good for composting, but will be too hot for worms. So, wait until any steam has stopped happening, then toss a thousand composting worms (reds, blues and tigers) into the bin.
After the worms are in, you can start adding scraps again. The best scraps-for-worms handling method I've come up with at my place goes like this:
On a kitchen bench, I have a plain flat cafeteria tray. On the tray, I have newspaper about 10 sheets thick. Scraps go in a pile on the newspaper, and a large mesh colander goes over the top of the pile to keep flies, mice etc. out of it.
When the pile gets big enough (usually one or two days), I lay out two sheets of broadsheet newspaper, put the tray on the end of that, then slide it out from under its newspaper liner so that the liner and the scraps pile are now sitting on the broadsheet. Then I wrap that whole thing up tightly, tucking in the ends as I go, like a parcel of fish and chips. It usually ends up a little bigger than a house brick.
That whole parcel then goes in the worm farm as-is. The newspaper acts as "brown" to balance up the food scraps "green". The gaps between the housebrick-sized parcels let air deep enough into the worm farm to keep the critters happy. Critters don't get access to the insides of the parcels until the newspaper has gone properly soggy, which takes about as long as the contents take to start rotting. Worms use the spaces between soggy newspaper layers for breeding sites.
It's pretty rare to find anything still resembling a parcel deeper than a foot or so into the bin.
I know the idea of keeping your scraps on the kitchen bench sounds kind of gross, but the fact that they're in an essentially open pile stops them fermenting and stinking the way they so often do in the usual covered scraps bucket; they look much more like food leftovers than garbage. They also don't create the slimy mess that needs to be scrubbed off the inside of every scraps bucket I've ever seen - an occasional wipe-over of the colander rim is really all that's required.
I've also found that I can get away with including citrus peels and onions, which are traditionally verboten in worm farms. The worms just avoid breaking into parcels containing too much of these until they've broken down enough to be harmless.
posted by flabdablet at 3:28 PM on December 4, 2008
Arthur Dent writes "Another quick solution is to stop by your grocery store and get a bag of 'Feline Pine' or 'Swheat' or 'Daily News' kitty litter. Works great as 'brown stuff'."
Similar stuff much cheaper is wood pellets for pellet stoves.
posted by Mitheral at 4:20 PM on December 4, 2008
Similar stuff much cheaper is wood pellets for pellet stoves.
posted by Mitheral at 4:20 PM on December 4, 2008
Don't buy stuff to put in your compost when leaves and newspapers are free for the taking and should be recycled anyway. There's a lot more embodied energy in pelletized products than in leaves, so you're basically throwing money and energy at something that doesn't require it.
posted by oneirodynia at 8:42 PM on December 4, 2008
posted by oneirodynia at 8:42 PM on December 4, 2008
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Google "greens and browns".
posted by alms at 11:58 AM on December 4, 2008