Should I warn my abusive ex's new girlfriend?
August 7, 2013 2:32 PM Subscribe
As I was reading this question today, I was reminded of my horribly abusive ex-boyfriend, and googled him as I will do every once in a while. (I left him 11 years ago, so it's maybe once or twice a year these days.) Usually I never find anything, but today I found his unblocked Facebook profile, where I quickly found out that he has a live-in girlfriend - and they have a young child together. I've been sick thinking about this, since he did many things while we were together that make me believe he's not a safe person to be around a child.
I was always uncomfortable with the way he physically interacted with his nieces and nephews - he would continue tickling his 2 year old niece while she cried and begged him to stop, all while he laughed at her distress. He would tell me that if we had children, he wanted to watch hardcore porn with them so he could "show them from their loving father what sex is all about." He tried to get a 15 year old girl with family problems that he met online to move in with us, so he could "protect" her. (He was 33 at the time.) Right before I was able to escape, he confessed to me that as an adolescent, he repeatedly molested his sisters (and sobbed his eyes out to me because in his mind, the story was about how lonely and tragic his adolescence was).
Also, a few years after I left him, he contacted me against my wishes, and when he did so, he left a link to his blog at the time, where I was able to figure out that he was posing as 21 instead of 36, and had been travelling across the country to have sex with a 16 year old high school student. I was incredibly upset about it and worried about her safety, and long story short, was able to find a victim's advocate in her state who informed the sheriff's department. They never successfully pressed charges against him as far as I know, but the sheriff was at least able to inform her parents, who were unaware of his age and his violent past, and were able to intervene.
I realize that this is a different situation now, in that there is no clear legal issue, but I'm still struggling morally. I know that if I were to send a message to his girlfriend, there is very little chance that she would listen. And I suspect that knowing him, he's probably told her some version of events where he did some bad deeds in his past, but he's completely reformed and would never do it again.
But I also can't help but think, what if she doesn't know any of his past? Wouldn't a mother want to know that their child's father has such a history of abuse? Not that she would necessarily even believe it now - but what about if he abuses her or the baby in the future? Wouldn't it help to know what she's dealing with?
I'm not particularly worried about my safety or peace of mind if I did somehow reach out - he was always a total chickenshit who only laid a hand on me once I was under his control. And I'm not motivated by revenge or anger - I have an incredibly happy life now. But all I can think of is how much anguish and torment I went through living with him, and I feel sick to think of that poor baby being raised in that household.
So what do you think - is there ANYTHING I can do in this situation that could possibly help? Or do I just have to cope with the concern for an innocent kid who got stuck with this guy as a dad?
I was always uncomfortable with the way he physically interacted with his nieces and nephews - he would continue tickling his 2 year old niece while she cried and begged him to stop, all while he laughed at her distress. He would tell me that if we had children, he wanted to watch hardcore porn with them so he could "show them from their loving father what sex is all about." He tried to get a 15 year old girl with family problems that he met online to move in with us, so he could "protect" her. (He was 33 at the time.) Right before I was able to escape, he confessed to me that as an adolescent, he repeatedly molested his sisters (and sobbed his eyes out to me because in his mind, the story was about how lonely and tragic his adolescence was).
Also, a few years after I left him, he contacted me against my wishes, and when he did so, he left a link to his blog at the time, where I was able to figure out that he was posing as 21 instead of 36, and had been travelling across the country to have sex with a 16 year old high school student. I was incredibly upset about it and worried about her safety, and long story short, was able to find a victim's advocate in her state who informed the sheriff's department. They never successfully pressed charges against him as far as I know, but the sheriff was at least able to inform her parents, who were unaware of his age and his violent past, and were able to intervene.
I realize that this is a different situation now, in that there is no clear legal issue, but I'm still struggling morally. I know that if I were to send a message to his girlfriend, there is very little chance that she would listen. And I suspect that knowing him, he's probably told her some version of events where he did some bad deeds in his past, but he's completely reformed and would never do it again.
But I also can't help but think, what if she doesn't know any of his past? Wouldn't a mother want to know that their child's father has such a history of abuse? Not that she would necessarily even believe it now - but what about if he abuses her or the baby in the future? Wouldn't it help to know what she's dealing with?
I'm not particularly worried about my safety or peace of mind if I did somehow reach out - he was always a total chickenshit who only laid a hand on me once I was under his control. And I'm not motivated by revenge or anger - I have an incredibly happy life now. But all I can think of is how much anguish and torment I went through living with him, and I feel sick to think of that poor baby being raised in that household.
So what do you think - is there ANYTHING I can do in this situation that could possibly help? Or do I just have to cope with the concern for an innocent kid who got stuck with this guy as a dad?
Why are you googling your ex from 11 years ago? That doesn't sound like healthy behavior. What he's doing these days is absolutely none of your business.
posted by xingcat at 2:44 PM on August 7, 2013 [15 favorites]
posted by xingcat at 2:44 PM on August 7, 2013 [15 favorites]
I would say something, that's just me. I would especially say the factual things that are on record so that he can't sue you for defamation (e.g., the sheriff's department records). Expect to have the new girlfriend send you a nasty email all about how you are just jealous of her and she doesn't believe you. Leave it at that.
posted by cairdeas at 2:45 PM on August 7, 2013 [13 favorites]
posted by cairdeas at 2:45 PM on August 7, 2013 [13 favorites]
I would also say that it's not none of your business to google someone who has been an admitted lifelong child molester, and you have personally seen tormenting children. So many sexual abuse victims say, if someone had stopped him when he had first done this 10, 20, 30 years ago, he would have never had the chance to do it to me. I don't think it's wrong to monitor people who do those things and be concerned about what they are up to.
posted by cairdeas at 2:47 PM on August 7, 2013 [52 favorites]
posted by cairdeas at 2:47 PM on August 7, 2013 [52 favorites]
He is already the child's father. You can't do anything about that. And if he's still abusive, and his girlfriend doesn't already know it, she won't believe you. There is nothing productive you can accomplish here.
posted by ubiquity at 2:47 PM on August 7, 2013 [17 favorites]
posted by ubiquity at 2:47 PM on August 7, 2013 [17 favorites]
Let it go and stop googling him. You have no evidence he has done anything wrong to her or their child. 11 years is a long time, move on. Or do you intend to follow him around forever trying to ruin his relationships on the off-chance he might do something inappropriate?
People can change. If this was someone you broke up with < a year ago, it might be different but the things he did to you and everyone else in your story are ancient history. Maybe he changed, maybe he didn't but its not your place to be stirring up shit in his life after all this time without knowing anything about his situation.
posted by missmagenta at 2:47 PM on August 7, 2013
People can change. If this was someone you broke up with < a year ago, it might be different but the things he did to you and everyone else in your story are ancient history. Maybe he changed, maybe he didn't but its not your place to be stirring up shit in his life after all this time without knowing anything about his situation.
posted by missmagenta at 2:47 PM on August 7, 2013
Quietly and anonymously call social services in their area. Do it from a payphone, do not give your name or address, but explain how you know the person (vaguely) - and DO give details as to why you are concerned.
posted by FritoKAL at 2:47 PM on August 7, 2013 [36 favorites]
posted by FritoKAL at 2:47 PM on August 7, 2013 [36 favorites]
Suppose he hasn't changed, and you share what you know with the girlfriend. What's the worst that could happen? She will ignore you, they will both be annoyed.
Suppose he hasn't changed, and you don't share what you know. What's the worst that could happen? She will not have information that might help her keep a dangerous man away from her child.
Suppose he has changed, really gone through intense therapy or whatever and become a different person. What's the worst thing that could happen if you share what you know with the girlfriend? It will bring up a difficult issue in their relationship.
Based on these three possible outcomes, I would tell her.
posted by mai at 2:49 PM on August 7, 2013 [24 favorites]
Suppose he hasn't changed, and you don't share what you know. What's the worst that could happen? She will not have information that might help her keep a dangerous man away from her child.
Suppose he has changed, really gone through intense therapy or whatever and become a different person. What's the worst thing that could happen if you share what you know with the girlfriend? It will bring up a difficult issue in their relationship.
Based on these three possible outcomes, I would tell her.
posted by mai at 2:49 PM on August 7, 2013 [24 favorites]
If they have a child together, they probably have a pretty extensive relationship, and probably at least at extensive as the one you two had, if not more (I hope this idea doesn't upset you, if it does, I'm sorry). If that's the case, she probably already knows all this terrible stuff about him already, or at least enough of it to be upset about it.
If you want to do anything, send her an e-mail (not as an ex-girlfriend, and from an account not traceable to you. best scenario is having a friend send it from her own name from a brand new account with no last name), include in the e-mail resources on how to deal with and escape from abusive situations. Simply say that as someone aware of this person's past (you don't have to give specifics), you want her to know that these resources are available, and that if she is struggling with anything that there are people to help.
posted by cacao at 2:50 PM on August 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
If you want to do anything, send her an e-mail (not as an ex-girlfriend, and from an account not traceable to you. best scenario is having a friend send it from her own name from a brand new account with no last name), include in the e-mail resources on how to deal with and escape from abusive situations. Simply say that as someone aware of this person's past (you don't have to give specifics), you want her to know that these resources are available, and that if she is struggling with anything that there are people to help.
posted by cacao at 2:50 PM on August 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
Call social services anonymously. Don't warn the live-in girlfriend. This person confessed to criminal acts against children to you.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:50 PM on August 7, 2013 [16 favorites]
posted by Ironmouth at 2:50 PM on August 7, 2013 [16 favorites]
I'm not so sure this is none of your business. Children rely on adults for protection against people who would otherwise harm them. If you have information that leads you to think he could be abusing a child, you could contact child protective services in the area where he lives and ask them what you (or they) should do about your concerns. They are probably in the best position to give advice since they are experts in these types of matters. Recently a neighborhood child (friend of my daughter) said some worrisome things to us about her father, so after asking a few other parents (who don't know him) what they think I should do, I called child protective services to ask them whether they thought there was any need to provide them with detailed information - they said in this particular case they didn't see a need, so I left it at that. They are experts, you and I are not.
posted by Dansaman at 2:51 PM on August 7, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by Dansaman at 2:51 PM on August 7, 2013 [8 favorites]
Mod note: Do not turn this into an argument with other commenters. Answer the question being asked.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:52 PM on August 7, 2013
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:52 PM on August 7, 2013
on reading others comments, I agree that you can also go ahead and contact child protective services. My suggestion was for if you plan to contact the girlfriend, how to handle it.
posted by cacao at 2:53 PM on August 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by cacao at 2:53 PM on August 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
I would second calling child protection in their are and asking them what you can do. I don't think it's none of your business, but I would see contacting his new girlfriend directly as a last recourse, as I think it's unlikely to be very effective.
posted by ipsative at 2:55 PM on August 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by ipsative at 2:55 PM on August 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm also going to suggest that you can say something (although it's up to you). It isn't "none of your business" to share the truth of your story, or to look up whatever you please on the internet. If he's reformed at this point, that's fantastic, but there is some history that he perpetuated that by its nature should be expected to come back to roost, and that's a bed that he made awhile ago. The uncertainty about his current moral behavior by you does not default in his favor, but should be informed by his most recent known behavior.
For those who might suggest that you shouldn't say anything, why not? Because the truth is painful to hear for someone? I don't think you have to worry about telling the truth. He's not magically or even ethically entitled to secrets about past errors of this magnitude, even if he's changed his ways. The truth should provide information for others to make informed decisions. You aren't forcing anyone to leave anyone, but you are giving information that might provide fodder for their own truthful discussions and a well-informed decision on their end.
That being said, the way that you might present this is vitally important. If you approach it as an axe to grind, it probably won't do the good you are hoping for.
posted by SpacemanStix at 2:57 PM on August 7, 2013 [6 favorites]
For those who might suggest that you shouldn't say anything, why not? Because the truth is painful to hear for someone? I don't think you have to worry about telling the truth. He's not magically or even ethically entitled to secrets about past errors of this magnitude, even if he's changed his ways. The truth should provide information for others to make informed decisions. You aren't forcing anyone to leave anyone, but you are giving information that might provide fodder for their own truthful discussions and a well-informed decision on their end.
That being said, the way that you might present this is vitally important. If you approach it as an axe to grind, it probably won't do the good you are hoping for.
posted by SpacemanStix at 2:57 PM on August 7, 2013 [6 favorites]
If it were me, I'd call child services in their area and make a report. They may not do anything (a lot of times they won't investigate unless there's suspicion the abuser is currently hurting children), but it will be on file in case someone else makes a complaint against him.
posted by jaguar at 3:02 PM on August 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by jaguar at 3:02 PM on August 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
I think it's a poor use of CPS's resources to have to pay attention to stories that are over a decade old, may or may not be true (did his sisters confirm the molestation? Or is he a fabulist/pathological liar?) There's kids in danger right now who need attention paid, and I think adding to the caseload isn't right.
You have no idea as to what she knows, doesn't know etc.. Block him on FB, and don't google him. If you're really determined, hire a PI and/or run a public records search for criminal charges.
posted by Ideefixe at 3:07 PM on August 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
You have no idea as to what she knows, doesn't know etc.. Block him on FB, and don't google him. If you're really determined, hire a PI and/or run a public records search for criminal charges.
posted by Ideefixe at 3:07 PM on August 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
There isn't one right answer here. I had an abusive boyfriend many years ago, and I would not involve myself in warning anyone he was with now because I don't know if he has changed -- people do -- and I don't want to re-involve myself with him again in any way. But I don't think it would be wrong for you to make a different choice. You know yourself best -- what would give you the most peace?
If you do reach out, I'd be very, very careful to use a throwaway email from a public (not near you) terminal, and make it clear this is a one-time contact only from you. Because better safe than not.
posted by bearwife at 3:15 PM on August 7, 2013
If you do reach out, I'd be very, very careful to use a throwaway email from a public (not near you) terminal, and make it clear this is a one-time contact only from you. Because better safe than not.
posted by bearwife at 3:15 PM on August 7, 2013
Anonymously call CPS and report your concerns in a detached, unemotional way- just the facts.
posted by windykites at 3:18 PM on August 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by windykites at 3:18 PM on August 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
I doubt that CPS would respond to a report of something that happened 11 years ago, they don't have those resources. I agree with those saying that this is none of your business at this point. Stop following him around year to year, nothing good will come of it.
Move on with YOUR life, you have nothing to do with his any longer.
posted by HuronBob at 3:38 PM on August 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
Move on with YOUR life, you have nothing to do with his any longer.
posted by HuronBob at 3:38 PM on August 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
I don't think there's an really effective answer here. It doesn't sound like you know anything that would be actionable for CPS, and you would likely have little or no credibility with the mother or their community. Still, I can understand why you don't want to sit on your hands with this.
I'm inclined toward doing nothing, in part because I don't think that any of the given options are particularly effective, but mostly because I know that the best thing for my mental health is not to pursue dark rabbit holes like this. It would never end. With that being said, you might want to reach out to a victim's advocate group to see what kind of advise they might have on whether or how you should take action.
posted by sm1tten at 3:49 PM on August 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm inclined toward doing nothing, in part because I don't think that any of the given options are particularly effective, but mostly because I know that the best thing for my mental health is not to pursue dark rabbit holes like this. It would never end. With that being said, you might want to reach out to a victim's advocate group to see what kind of advise they might have on whether or how you should take action.
posted by sm1tten at 3:49 PM on August 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
You should definitely contact Child Protective Services. Tell them what you know and let them make the decision about whether they should move forward with an investigation. In my state, you actually will have a right to find out what was done with the information you provided.
As far as informing the girlfriend, I would probably send an anonymous letter IF action isn't taken by CPS.
posted by smirkyfodder at 3:50 PM on August 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
As far as informing the girlfriend, I would probably send an anonymous letter IF action isn't taken by CPS.
posted by smirkyfodder at 3:50 PM on August 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I would very strongly recommend against contacting his girlfriend directly.
If you feel his child is in danger, Prevent Child Abuse America has a list of contacts you should use in order to see what your next step should be. You can call 1-800-CHILDREN to reach them, or reach out to Childhelp at 1-800-4-A-CHILD. Both organizations should have people who can tell you if you should escalate the issue, if they think it is necessary. They will also be able to provide you with advice, support, and local referrals. None of us here can tell you what to do next, but these organizations can.
posted by divined by radio at 3:50 PM on August 7, 2013 [15 favorites]
If you feel his child is in danger, Prevent Child Abuse America has a list of contacts you should use in order to see what your next step should be. You can call 1-800-CHILDREN to reach them, or reach out to Childhelp at 1-800-4-A-CHILD. Both organizations should have people who can tell you if you should escalate the issue, if they think it is necessary. They will also be able to provide you with advice, support, and local referrals. None of us here can tell you what to do next, but these organizations can.
posted by divined by radio at 3:50 PM on August 7, 2013 [15 favorites]
What a horrible situation. Very sorry.
My advice would be to consider various possible outcomes. Worst and best possible results of your various possible courses of action. +1 mai's answer.
I am having a hard time coming up with a scenario where this guy is remorseful and not at risk of recidivism, and your spilling the beans to the girlfriend is somehow life-alteringly horrible for all concerned, kids included. If Dad is a molester he is better off not being Dad in the usual capacity; I really don't think there's any ambiguity about that one. Also +1 the thought that it is the job of social workers to figure out what is and what is not worth looking into or making note of for future reference.
posted by kmennie at 4:25 PM on August 7, 2013 [4 favorites]
My advice would be to consider various possible outcomes. Worst and best possible results of your various possible courses of action. +1 mai's answer.
I am having a hard time coming up with a scenario where this guy is remorseful and not at risk of recidivism, and your spilling the beans to the girlfriend is somehow life-alteringly horrible for all concerned, kids included. If Dad is a molester he is better off not being Dad in the usual capacity; I really don't think there's any ambiguity about that one. Also +1 the thought that it is the job of social workers to figure out what is and what is not worth looking into or making note of for future reference.
posted by kmennie at 4:25 PM on August 7, 2013 [4 favorites]
This is hard. I doubt very seriously that your ex has changed all that much. His new partner and his child are probably at risk. If he's abusive, she probably already knows. As for abusing their child, that's a concern.
I agree with calling CPS anonymously and telling them exactly what you've told us. Explain that you knew him 11 years ago, that he admitted sexually assaulting his sisters.
Once you've done that, leave it alone. Don't contact his family directly, don't google him, or haunt him on facebook.
It's hard but trust that there are others, closer to the situation that are also reporting things that don't look right.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:33 PM on August 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
I agree with calling CPS anonymously and telling them exactly what you've told us. Explain that you knew him 11 years ago, that he admitted sexually assaulting his sisters.
Once you've done that, leave it alone. Don't contact his family directly, don't google him, or haunt him on facebook.
It's hard but trust that there are others, closer to the situation that are also reporting things that don't look right.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 4:33 PM on August 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
Even if your concerns are legitimate, you can't be the policeman of the rest of that guy's life.
posted by anazgnos at 5:02 PM on August 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by anazgnos at 5:02 PM on August 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
Err, did nobody read this bit?..
"...if we had children, he wanted to watch hardcore porn with them..."
I don't care how much somebody gets over saying that...
posted by curtj at 5:24 PM on August 7, 2013 [11 favorites]
"...if we had children, he wanted to watch hardcore porn with them..."
I don't care how much somebody gets over saying that...
posted by curtj at 5:24 PM on August 7, 2013 [11 favorites]
It sounds like you have a lot of unresolved issues about your time with this man. Your language is loaded – controlled, escaped – and your question is whether or not you should re-involve yourself in his life. If you escaped him, this would amount to going back to him, in some way. Whilst the relationship is long over, you don't seem to have moved on from it completely. Rather it seems like you are haunted by it.
Let's reverse the situation for a moment. Imagine if you were a troubled person, who grew up with some level of dysfunction, and behaved in a way that was relatively anti-social. Not because you necessarily chose to be that person, but because that is how you ended up. Now, let's imagine that you worked very hard over a decade to sort yourself out, bringing yourself to a place where you are capable of having a loving family of your own (maybe the one you never had growing up), and functionally living in society. When you look back on the person you were, you are both dismayed that you were that person, as well happy you are not that person. You learned, changed, and grew. You dealt with your demons, and now that past feels like someone else's life. As time goes on, you think less and less about it, for you are happy with you have become. And it was hard work to make it happen for yourself.
Then one day, out of nowhere, an ex of yours writes a long email to your present partner, detailing conversations that you had a long time ago. Things you said – things that sound like you, but a different version of you. You remember saying those things, but you don't feel that way anymore. Maybe some of them weren't even real and you said them for attention. But your ex saw your new baby on Facebook, and decided she needed to dredge up your old past as some kind of a warning to your new family. How do you feel?
Probably slightly creeped out that your ex is stalking you on Facebook, watching your life from afar and getting back involved with the apparent topic of conversation being your new baby. Perhaps further creeped out that she is dredging up stuff you barely remember and have done your best to forget about. Probably slightly concerned that she seems to have hung onto your past far more than you have. Maybe irritated that she is meddling in your family, and making very bold accusations based on who you were a long time ago. Maybe you've talked about all those things already with your partner, it was weird and difficult, but you got passed it. And now she's brought it all back up, ostensibly for the safety of your baby.
What does that look like from the outside? It sounds like you are really having trouble letting go of what happened, and creating a reason to hurt this guy. Sure, he could be the same person and the child could be in potential danger. One would hope the child's mother has decent instincts about who she has chosen to raise a child with.
And I guess that's an important point to finish on. He is (probably) not the same person he was. She is not you. The child is not your child with him. I think you should speak to a mental health professional about this, and your unresolved feelings. If you can convince an objective third-party that your concern is valid and action needs to be taken, then I think you can take some action with confidence.
Otherwise, there are two sides to every story, and what has been presented here is your very dark side, rooted in an experience from a long time ago that could very well be different today than it was originally. I think you should be very careful with this.
posted by nickrussell at 5:29 PM on August 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
Let's reverse the situation for a moment. Imagine if you were a troubled person, who grew up with some level of dysfunction, and behaved in a way that was relatively anti-social. Not because you necessarily chose to be that person, but because that is how you ended up. Now, let's imagine that you worked very hard over a decade to sort yourself out, bringing yourself to a place where you are capable of having a loving family of your own (maybe the one you never had growing up), and functionally living in society. When you look back on the person you were, you are both dismayed that you were that person, as well happy you are not that person. You learned, changed, and grew. You dealt with your demons, and now that past feels like someone else's life. As time goes on, you think less and less about it, for you are happy with you have become. And it was hard work to make it happen for yourself.
Then one day, out of nowhere, an ex of yours writes a long email to your present partner, detailing conversations that you had a long time ago. Things you said – things that sound like you, but a different version of you. You remember saying those things, but you don't feel that way anymore. Maybe some of them weren't even real and you said them for attention. But your ex saw your new baby on Facebook, and decided she needed to dredge up your old past as some kind of a warning to your new family. How do you feel?
Probably slightly creeped out that your ex is stalking you on Facebook, watching your life from afar and getting back involved with the apparent topic of conversation being your new baby. Perhaps further creeped out that she is dredging up stuff you barely remember and have done your best to forget about. Probably slightly concerned that she seems to have hung onto your past far more than you have. Maybe irritated that she is meddling in your family, and making very bold accusations based on who you were a long time ago. Maybe you've talked about all those things already with your partner, it was weird and difficult, but you got passed it. And now she's brought it all back up, ostensibly for the safety of your baby.
What does that look like from the outside? It sounds like you are really having trouble letting go of what happened, and creating a reason to hurt this guy. Sure, he could be the same person and the child could be in potential danger. One would hope the child's mother has decent instincts about who she has chosen to raise a child with.
And I guess that's an important point to finish on. He is (probably) not the same person he was. She is not you. The child is not your child with him. I think you should speak to a mental health professional about this, and your unresolved feelings. If you can convince an objective third-party that your concern is valid and action needs to be taken, then I think you can take some action with confidence.
Otherwise, there are two sides to every story, and what has been presented here is your very dark side, rooted in an experience from a long time ago that could very well be different today than it was originally. I think you should be very careful with this.
posted by nickrussell at 5:29 PM on August 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
When I told my abusive husband to leave, he moved in with our daughter's best friend's mother and her three kids. Obviously, this woman and I saw each other at various school and such events around our small town, and one day at our daughters' soccer match I asked if I could chat with her briefly and then tried to explain that I made my husband leave because he was abusive to me and the kids.
She told me that I was insane, to fuck off and mind my own business.
YMMV, just a datapoint to consider.
posted by kinetic at 5:34 PM on August 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
She told me that I was insane, to fuck off and mind my own business.
YMMV, just a datapoint to consider.
posted by kinetic at 5:34 PM on August 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
Best answer: She told me that I was insane, to fuck off and mind my own business.
YMMV, just a datapoint to consider.
I absolutely think this is the most likely scenario, because these guys prep the women with their sob stories of being abused and maltreated by woman after woman.
However, I've also had plenty of times in my life where I told someone something that they didn't want to hear and they reacted badly (including one notable time by grabbing/hitting my face), but it stuck around in their mind and eventually they came around it on their own after having been defensive in the moment.
posted by cairdeas at 5:54 PM on August 7, 2013 [10 favorites]
YMMV, just a datapoint to consider.
I absolutely think this is the most likely scenario, because these guys prep the women with their sob stories of being abused and maltreated by woman after woman.
However, I've also had plenty of times in my life where I told someone something that they didn't want to hear and they reacted badly (including one notable time by grabbing/hitting my face), but it stuck around in their mind and eventually they came around it on their own after having been defensive in the moment.
posted by cairdeas at 5:54 PM on August 7, 2013 [10 favorites]
If this were simply regarding abuse to an adult, maybe you would let them deal themselves. But considering children were involved, I join the chorus and say talk to their CPS for advice.
When it comes to a child, it's everybody's business.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:54 PM on August 7, 2013 [9 favorites]
When it comes to a child, it's everybody's business.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:54 PM on August 7, 2013 [9 favorites]
The reason I personally wouldn't do anything with is because I think you need to prioritize your safety, and if you email her, he might want to contact or harass you.
posted by spunweb at 6:06 PM on August 7, 2013
posted by spunweb at 6:06 PM on August 7, 2013
When it comes to a child, it's everyone's business.
Hell yes. General parenting choices? No. Someone who has admitted to sexually abusing their own siblings, and who expressed a desire to watch hardcore porn with children as an adult? That person has forfeited the right to remain unscrutinized around children. I don't mean that in a punitive way, because I actually feel very sorry for him, but children come first.
I think it is extremely optimistic and/or naive to assume that his partner would not have had kids with him if he was still a danger. In fact, it's naive to assume that she even knows about his past.
Yes, I would write a letter to his partner. I would include an email address she could contact me at. I don't know enough about the workings or resources of CPS in the States, but I would also at least try to speak to a professional in that area about my concerns, and follow their advice. Good luck, and thanks for caring.
posted by Salamander at 6:14 PM on August 7, 2013 [7 favorites]
Hell yes. General parenting choices? No. Someone who has admitted to sexually abusing their own siblings, and who expressed a desire to watch hardcore porn with children as an adult? That person has forfeited the right to remain unscrutinized around children. I don't mean that in a punitive way, because I actually feel very sorry for him, but children come first.
I think it is extremely optimistic and/or naive to assume that his partner would not have had kids with him if he was still a danger. In fact, it's naive to assume that she even knows about his past.
Yes, I would write a letter to his partner. I would include an email address she could contact me at. I don't know enough about the workings or resources of CPS in the States, but I would also at least try to speak to a professional in that area about my concerns, and follow their advice. Good luck, and thanks for caring.
posted by Salamander at 6:14 PM on August 7, 2013 [7 favorites]
The mother of the child is either unlikely to believe you, or already knows. If you know the child's school or child care, you could talk to a teacher, director or principal, and say "I know X quite well, and he shared some history with me. I was aware of some abusive and predatory behavior on his part. If you could keep an eye on Child, I would appreciate it."
The tickling is a non-issue. I hate that behavior, but it's not generally considered significant. He has shown statutory rape (not prosecuted) and shows predatory behavior(not prosecuted). Since you've known him, he may have been prosecuted, so Child Services may be have a file, or be able to open a file. Good luck.
posted by theora55 at 6:16 PM on August 7, 2013
The tickling is a non-issue. I hate that behavior, but it's not generally considered significant. He has shown statutory rape (not prosecuted) and shows predatory behavior(not prosecuted). Since you've known him, he may have been prosecuted, so Child Services may be have a file, or be able to open a file. Good luck.
posted by theora55 at 6:16 PM on August 7, 2013
One last thought.
In my misadventures of online dating I once had a guy write to me and tell me that he was a rapist. He explained his tactic for raping and how it was the fault of women and their rejection of him that he was the way he was.
Now that guy could have been a liar, an attention-seeker, crazy, a troll, or any number of things, but the first thing I did was call the cops and tell them about it. The officer I talked to in the sex crimes unit told me he was very happy that I called and that it was the right thing to do. He started looking up the guy while we were still on the phone.
You don't have any kind of hard and immediate evidence of someone committing sex crimes right then and there, in order for it to be worthwhile to try and alert people about this person. Someone telling you they have committed sex crimes in the past and would like to in the future (e.g. your ex saying he wanted to watch hardcore porn with your future kids) is enough IMO.
posted by cairdeas at 6:16 PM on August 7, 2013 [7 favorites]
In my misadventures of online dating I once had a guy write to me and tell me that he was a rapist. He explained his tactic for raping and how it was the fault of women and their rejection of him that he was the way he was.
Now that guy could have been a liar, an attention-seeker, crazy, a troll, or any number of things, but the first thing I did was call the cops and tell them about it. The officer I talked to in the sex crimes unit told me he was very happy that I called and that it was the right thing to do. He started looking up the guy while we were still on the phone.
You don't have any kind of hard and immediate evidence of someone committing sex crimes right then and there, in order for it to be worthwhile to try and alert people about this person. Someone telling you they have committed sex crimes in the past and would like to in the future (e.g. your ex saying he wanted to watch hardcore porn with your future kids) is enough IMO.
posted by cairdeas at 6:16 PM on August 7, 2013 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for all of the great feedback and support. Just to clarify a few things - I may have given the impression that I google stalk this guy way more than I do, and with the intention to police his behavior. It's usually because we live in the same city, and sometimes it gives me peace of mind knowing he lives nowhere near me - even though I'm not afraid of him any longer, it doesn't mean I want to worry about running into him on a regular basis.
And I also have no desire to get involved or "meddle" beyond what would be the bare minimum - my life is a million times better without him in it, and I want to keep it that way. It just broke my heart to see pictures of that poor baby and know the potential for violence in that home and feel so helpless to do anything about it. I'm going to mull it over for a bit longer, but I like the idea of talking to someone at the hotline posted above.
However, I've also had plenty of times in my life where I told someone something that they didn't want to hear and they reacted badly (including one notable time by grabbing/hitting my face), but it stuck around in their mind and eventually they came around it on their own after having been defensive in the moment.
cairdeas, I was trying to articulate that in my original post and wasn't successful, but having something stick in her mind would really be all I would expect - I know I was pretty damn defensive when I was with him.
Imagine if you were a troubled person, who grew up with some level of dysfunction, and behaved in a way that was relatively anti-social.
nickrussell, did you notice where I mentioned that he was abusive? This is a man that smashed my head into a wall, controlled every move I made (including what I could eat, when I could sleep, and what I could read), tried to suffocate me, handcuffed me to a chair and locked me in a room as a "joke", ripped my clothes off and then threw a glass table at me while I was naked and screaming - forgive me for thinking that "relatively anti-social" is not an accurate way to describe this man. Nothing would make me happier than if he really did reform and was a truly kind and non-abusive husband and father to his family - I just don't think it's very likely at all.
posted by Neely O'Hara at 6:28 PM on August 7, 2013 [25 favorites]
And I also have no desire to get involved or "meddle" beyond what would be the bare minimum - my life is a million times better without him in it, and I want to keep it that way. It just broke my heart to see pictures of that poor baby and know the potential for violence in that home and feel so helpless to do anything about it. I'm going to mull it over for a bit longer, but I like the idea of talking to someone at the hotline posted above.
However, I've also had plenty of times in my life where I told someone something that they didn't want to hear and they reacted badly (including one notable time by grabbing/hitting my face), but it stuck around in their mind and eventually they came around it on their own after having been defensive in the moment.
cairdeas, I was trying to articulate that in my original post and wasn't successful, but having something stick in her mind would really be all I would expect - I know I was pretty damn defensive when I was with him.
Imagine if you were a troubled person, who grew up with some level of dysfunction, and behaved in a way that was relatively anti-social.
nickrussell, did you notice where I mentioned that he was abusive? This is a man that smashed my head into a wall, controlled every move I made (including what I could eat, when I could sleep, and what I could read), tried to suffocate me, handcuffed me to a chair and locked me in a room as a "joke", ripped my clothes off and then threw a glass table at me while I was naked and screaming - forgive me for thinking that "relatively anti-social" is not an accurate way to describe this man. Nothing would make me happier than if he really did reform and was a truly kind and non-abusive husband and father to his family - I just don't think it's very likely at all.
posted by Neely O'Hara at 6:28 PM on August 7, 2013 [25 favorites]
This is a tough one, but I think I would get in touch with her. Once, a million years ago, someone I was dating was taken to court for assault by an ex. Prepped by my lover, I though the ex was a total psycho. Until things started happening to me. Then, knowing that I wasn't the only one, it was much easier to convince myself to leave. Is there a way to do it anonymously? Even if she doesn't believe you now, maybe it could make a difference later.
posted by Cuke at 7:14 PM on August 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Cuke at 7:14 PM on August 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
We each have our own experiences. For myself, I usually find if I don't think people can change, it's me that's not changing. Your experience is different. I do think you should work through your concern with someone objective who can be an independent sounding board, and allow you to come to the best decision you can.
posted by nickrussell at 7:34 PM on August 7, 2013
posted by nickrussell at 7:34 PM on August 7, 2013
I am a domestic violence survivor. I found out later that my ex had been abusive with other women - some of which had my contact information. I wish to god one of them had called or contacted me.
Look, it's entirely possible that his new girlfriend might think you're just a crazy ex. Totally possible. But here's the thing - you're sowing the seed of protectiveness and at the same time, when he does something fucked up - and he will - you are letting her know that it is not just her. That she doesn't have to feel embarrassed or that it's her fault. That she knows he's danger from the get-go.
What this man did? He has forfeited his right to privacy. I google-stalk my ex too, to make sure he's far away from me. This is normal from abuse survivors whose abusers weren't jailed. Ignore anyone who says that you're too hung up on someone who horrifically abused you.
I don't know if calling CPS would do any good, but absolutely email the mother from an email account that you check at least every few months.
posted by corb at 7:55 PM on August 7, 2013 [12 favorites]
Look, it's entirely possible that his new girlfriend might think you're just a crazy ex. Totally possible. But here's the thing - you're sowing the seed of protectiveness and at the same time, when he does something fucked up - and he will - you are letting her know that it is not just her. That she doesn't have to feel embarrassed or that it's her fault. That she knows he's danger from the get-go.
What this man did? He has forfeited his right to privacy. I google-stalk my ex too, to make sure he's far away from me. This is normal from abuse survivors whose abusers weren't jailed. Ignore anyone who says that you're too hung up on someone who horrifically abused you.
I don't know if calling CPS would do any good, but absolutely email the mother from an email account that you check at least every few months.
posted by corb at 7:55 PM on August 7, 2013 [12 favorites]
Call the hotline and find out what they recommend. One of my good friends was sexually abused by her father and her grandfather on a nearly daily basis, and her mother knew and didn't intervene. The only thing that saved my friend was that she confessed to a friend, who freaked out and told her parents, who then called CPS. My friend was pulled out of the home, put in foster care, was called to testify at her Dad's trial by his lawyer, and ended up not speaking to her friend for years ... BUT - once she got some distance, called and thanked her friend for saying something, for doing something.
Don't assume that just because it's his own kid, he wouldn't hurt it. Don't assume the baby's mother will protect it.
Someone has to be the first to say something.
posted by RogueTech at 8:35 PM on August 7, 2013 [8 favorites]
Don't assume that just because it's his own kid, he wouldn't hurt it. Don't assume the baby's mother will protect it.
Someone has to be the first to say something.
posted by RogueTech at 8:35 PM on August 7, 2013 [8 favorites]
Call CPS, yes.
The reason I personally wouldn't do anything with [his new girlfriend] is because I think you need to prioritize your safety, and if you email her, he might want to contact or harass you.
Yes. Absolutely this. I did this just once when I was younger and more naïve. She told him, he used HER phone to call me so I wouldn't suspect anything was amiss. (I told him he needed to stop and hung up.) About an hour later I also got an SMS from the girlfriend saying he had "explained everything" and that I was "obviously telling lies" ... I had quoted him directly, from written correspondence. Being factual and on-record is indeed important, but as I learned with that exchange, can mean not much at all in different contexts. CPS would be a much safer bet for everyone involved, children included.
posted by fraula at 1:42 AM on August 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
The reason I personally wouldn't do anything with [his new girlfriend] is because I think you need to prioritize your safety, and if you email her, he might want to contact or harass you.
Yes. Absolutely this. I did this just once when I was younger and more naïve. She told him, he used HER phone to call me so I wouldn't suspect anything was amiss. (I told him he needed to stop and hung up.) About an hour later I also got an SMS from the girlfriend saying he had "explained everything" and that I was "obviously telling lies" ... I had quoted him directly, from written correspondence. Being factual and on-record is indeed important, but as I learned with that exchange, can mean not much at all in different contexts. CPS would be a much safer bet for everyone involved, children included.
posted by fraula at 1:42 AM on August 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
When I told my abusive husband to leave, he moved in with our daughter's best friend's mother and her three kids. Obviously, this woman and I saw each other at various school and such events around our small town, and one day at our daughters' soccer match I asked if I could chat with her briefly and then tried to explain that I made my husband leave because he was abusive to me and the kids.
She told me that I was insane, to fuck off and mind my own business.
I stupidly forgot the ending of this story. Through the connection of our daughters I found out that my ex did indeed become abusive with this woman and a real screamer and ranter and thrower of things to her kids, who have all moved out.
She's stayed with him.
But ultimately, yeah, I'm glad I told her. She needed to know.
posted by kinetic at 3:33 AM on August 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
She told me that I was insane, to fuck off and mind my own business.
I stupidly forgot the ending of this story. Through the connection of our daughters I found out that my ex did indeed become abusive with this woman and a real screamer and ranter and thrower of things to her kids, who have all moved out.
She's stayed with him.
But ultimately, yeah, I'm glad I told her. She needed to know.
posted by kinetic at 3:33 AM on August 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
There's a lot of evidence out there that pedophilia isn't something people mature out of.
I would tell the new girlfriend and alert CPS. You'll probably get a bad reaction from the first girlfriend and no action on the part if CPS, but at least you'll be able to sleep with a clear conscience. And like other people said, someday she might come around. Odds are something similar is going to happen again and your datapoint may be the one that makes her think twice about things and maybe get herself and her child out of that situation.
posted by Jess the Mess at 4:24 AM on August 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
I would tell the new girlfriend and alert CPS. You'll probably get a bad reaction from the first girlfriend and no action on the part if CPS, but at least you'll be able to sleep with a clear conscience. And like other people said, someday she might come around. Odds are something similar is going to happen again and your datapoint may be the one that makes her think twice about things and maybe get herself and her child out of that situation.
posted by Jess the Mess at 4:24 AM on August 8, 2013 [2 favorites]
I can't add anything more to the advice you have gotten, but I'll say this--
I came across my ex's Facebook account, which is linked to his fiance's (maybe now wife). She has a son from a previous marriage and they have a daughter together.
The man who raped and emotionally abused me has a daughter. That's just scary to me. But there's nothing I can do about it. Because if I tried to contact his fiance, I'd get written off as the bitch who cheated on him nearly 2 decades ago.
Good luck with your decision--this isn't an easy one by any stretch of the imagination.
posted by luckynerd at 5:22 PM on August 8, 2013
I came across my ex's Facebook account, which is linked to his fiance's (maybe now wife). She has a son from a previous marriage and they have a daughter together.
The man who raped and emotionally abused me has a daughter. That's just scary to me. But there's nothing I can do about it. Because if I tried to contact his fiance, I'd get written off as the bitch who cheated on him nearly 2 decades ago.
Good luck with your decision--this isn't an easy one by any stretch of the imagination.
posted by luckynerd at 5:22 PM on August 8, 2013
I'm going to add my voice to cairdeas and others.
I dated a dangerous, abusive man who would say very scary shit like you described. I would have been very defensive if someone had said something negative about him to me at the beginning. But years later, when I was ready to leave, I would have remembered what they said and it would have given me strength. Maybe I would have left earlier. Maybe I would have investigated some of his lies before more damage was done.
PLEASE TELL HER.
For all of us who are survivors and could have been warned. For all of his future victims who don't know what's heading their way. For all of us who suffered because no one stuck their neck out for us.
PLEASE TELL HER.
It doesn't matter if you're over him (which you clearly are), whether she listens, whether he's reformed, or whatever. All that matters is that you do your moral duty by telling someone who is responsible for children what risks she might face. I believe it is unethical to do otherwise. Don't be a bystander. Speak up.
posted by 3491again at 6:36 PM on August 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
I dated a dangerous, abusive man who would say very scary shit like you described. I would have been very defensive if someone had said something negative about him to me at the beginning. But years later, when I was ready to leave, I would have remembered what they said and it would have given me strength. Maybe I would have left earlier. Maybe I would have investigated some of his lies before more damage was done.
PLEASE TELL HER.
For all of us who are survivors and could have been warned. For all of his future victims who don't know what's heading their way. For all of us who suffered because no one stuck their neck out for us.
PLEASE TELL HER.
It doesn't matter if you're over him (which you clearly are), whether she listens, whether he's reformed, or whatever. All that matters is that you do your moral duty by telling someone who is responsible for children what risks she might face. I believe it is unethical to do otherwise. Don't be a bystander. Speak up.
posted by 3491again at 6:36 PM on August 8, 2013 [3 favorites]
CPS supervisor here. Absolutely make this report to the child abuse hotline where he now lives. We go out on cases like this every single day-untreated alleged sex offender with access to children. Don't call her first as she will be incredibly likely to not believe you and there is about zero chance that she will have the skills necessary to assess whether he is a risk. The most likely thi g to have happened is that he's become a hell of a lot slicker at hiding his sexual interest in children-the comments above indicating that maybe becoming a father magically fixed him are sweet but so naive.
posted by purenitrous at 8:59 PM on August 8, 2013 [10 favorites]
posted by purenitrous at 8:59 PM on August 8, 2013 [10 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by mibo at 2:43 PM on August 7, 2013 [3 favorites]