Do I give them an out?
April 18, 2008 11:46 AM Subscribe
Totally silly detail of asking questions filter: When you ask for something, do you give them an out?
Situation: I'm writing a note to someone who I've never met but who I admire. (A photographer, in this case). It's someone I wrote to a few years ago and had a few nice emails volleyed when I was asking for advice.
I saw that she's passing through my town, possibly, and I'd want to ask her if she'd have a minute to get a cup of coffee with me so I could ask her some questions.
So I'm emailing her, saying "hey there, remember me? I see you might be passing through my town. If so, would you have a little time to join me for a cup of coffee?"
Now my question is, after this, do I say something like, "if not, no sweat, I hope you have a great trip?" Or "regardless, I hope you have a good trip?" It seems polite to offer an out, so if they can't/are not interested/whatever, they can just email back and say, sorry, and perhaps stay in touch. But I'm not sure if that's encouraging someone to turn me down.
As a totally guilt ridden person, I think I'd appreciate that in a note, and I don't think it would sway me particularly. But wondering what the hive mind wisdom is on this.
It's something I think about a fair bit.
Situation: I'm writing a note to someone who I've never met but who I admire. (A photographer, in this case). It's someone I wrote to a few years ago and had a few nice emails volleyed when I was asking for advice.
I saw that she's passing through my town, possibly, and I'd want to ask her if she'd have a minute to get a cup of coffee with me so I could ask her some questions.
So I'm emailing her, saying "hey there, remember me? I see you might be passing through my town. If so, would you have a little time to join me for a cup of coffee?"
Now my question is, after this, do I say something like, "if not, no sweat, I hope you have a great trip?" Or "regardless, I hope you have a good trip?" It seems polite to offer an out, so if they can't/are not interested/whatever, they can just email back and say, sorry, and perhaps stay in touch. But I'm not sure if that's encouraging someone to turn me down.
As a totally guilt ridden person, I think I'd appreciate that in a note, and I don't think it would sway me particularly. But wondering what the hive mind wisdom is on this.
It's something I think about a fair bit.
Don't ask her if she'd mind, because that seems a little awkward to say no to even with an out.
I'd reword it to say "if you're not too busy I wouldn't mind discussing photography over a cup of coffee, on me".. or along those lines. The "not too busy" part is key- it sort of builds the out into your question. If she's too busy, she doesn't need to feel obligated to even reply.
I'm guessing she'll be polite if she can't meet up and tell you so, and giving her the out of being too busy makes it easier on her part if that's the case.
posted by pedmands at 12:03 PM on April 18, 2008
I'd reword it to say "if you're not too busy I wouldn't mind discussing photography over a cup of coffee, on me".. or along those lines. The "not too busy" part is key- it sort of builds the out into your question. If she's too busy, she doesn't need to feel obligated to even reply.
I'm guessing she'll be polite if she can't meet up and tell you so, and giving her the out of being too busy makes it easier on her part if that's the case.
posted by pedmands at 12:03 PM on April 18, 2008
If you're asking this person to meet you in a professional capacity, photographer to photographer, I'd say don't offer an out. If she understands it to be a professional request, she won't feel guilt ridden about saying no to you, if she doesn't want to meet.
If it's more of a social call or a favour, as in you're an amateur and hoping this professional will take time out of her schedule to meet with you, then I'd phrase it this way:
"Hi so-and-so, I don't know if you remember me, but we met [explain the circumstances]. I notice that you're passing through my town. I was wondering if you'd be willing to take some time from your busy schedule to have an informal chat with me, as I'm looking for advice on such-and-such-an-issue."
This way, she knows that it's not just a social call, that you need information on something, and that you recognize she has a busy schedule. She now has the "out" of offering to answer your questions via email, rather than meeting with you.
Best of luck!
posted by LN at 12:03 PM on April 18, 2008
If it's more of a social call or a favour, as in you're an amateur and hoping this professional will take time out of her schedule to meet with you, then I'd phrase it this way:
"Hi so-and-so, I don't know if you remember me, but we met [explain the circumstances]. I notice that you're passing through my town. I was wondering if you'd be willing to take some time from your busy schedule to have an informal chat with me, as I'm looking for advice on such-and-such-an-issue."
This way, she knows that it's not just a social call, that you need information on something, and that you recognize she has a busy schedule. She now has the "out" of offering to answer your questions via email, rather than meeting with you.
Best of luck!
posted by LN at 12:03 PM on April 18, 2008
I wouldn't add it. You've already left her an "out" when you say "If so, would you have a little time to join me for a cup of coffee?"
If she's not interested in having coffee, she'll reply with something along the lines of "I'm sorry, but I won't be able to make it. My schedule's already pretty hectic." (i.e. she doesn't have "a little time".)
posted by theiconoclast31 at 12:08 PM on April 18, 2008
If she's not interested in having coffee, she'll reply with something along the lines of "I'm sorry, but I won't be able to make it. My schedule's already pretty hectic." (i.e. she doesn't have "a little time".)
posted by theiconoclast31 at 12:08 PM on April 18, 2008
Yeah I re-read and realized I was being redundant in relation to your already composed message. Send that, doesn't need anything extra. Be politely curt, and it shouldn't make her feel too obligated at all.
posted by pedmands at 12:16 PM on April 18, 2008
posted by pedmands at 12:16 PM on April 18, 2008
Well, you are treading into borderline stalkerish territory here. You probably realize that as does the recipient of your admiration. It's unfortunate that in these times expressing admiration and a desire to communicate on a personal level equates to odd or anti-social behavior, but that's the way it is...
That said, I don't think you should include an "out." This person will decide for themselves whether they want to meet with you. Putting an "out" into the email only allows them the option of responding with a lie in the event that they are uninterested in meeting with you.
Look at it this way - she either will meet with your or not. If she can't it will be because she is either legitimately predisposed, or uninterested in meeting you face-to-face. If she is busy and regrets that she can't meet you, she'll say so whether you include an "out" or not. If she is uninterested she will either ignore your email (highly likely) or respond with a lie. Functionally none of these outcomes will change either way regardless of if you include an "out" or not.
Further, to me, including such a line comes across as a little wimpy on your part. As if you're trying to curry favor with her, or define yourself in terms of her availability. That's not very appealing.
Be direct and polite.
posted by wfrgms at 12:18 PM on April 18, 2008
That said, I don't think you should include an "out." This person will decide for themselves whether they want to meet with you. Putting an "out" into the email only allows them the option of responding with a lie in the event that they are uninterested in meeting with you.
Look at it this way - she either will meet with your or not. If she can't it will be because she is either legitimately predisposed, or uninterested in meeting you face-to-face. If she is busy and regrets that she can't meet you, she'll say so whether you include an "out" or not. If she is uninterested she will either ignore your email (highly likely) or respond with a lie. Functionally none of these outcomes will change either way regardless of if you include an "out" or not.
Further, to me, including such a line comes across as a little wimpy on your part. As if you're trying to curry favor with her, or define yourself in terms of her availability. That's not very appealing.
Be direct and polite.
posted by wfrgms at 12:18 PM on April 18, 2008
I think just asking the question implicitly offers an out. You're asking if the person has time, and if they do not, they will say no. No need to explicitly offer them the option to say no, in addition to asking a yes/no question. It's like you're doubling the number of no's possible.
For me, this comes from my trial and error experience with posing questions over the years. One thing I've learned is to offer a finite number of answers (such as, "do you want X or Y?" rather than, "what do you want?"). Another is to pose questions in a *positive* manner rather than negative. So, don't start with, "You probably don't want to do this, but...". Instead, be positive: "Would you like to do this...?" These methods are effective in getting to the point and coming across as someone who has self esteem (and people who have self esteem are always more engaging and interesting, and the recipient of the question would rather say "yes" to them ... I know this from years of having low self esteem). (Also, particularly in e-mails, stick to *one* question or point. It's so easy for the recipient to answer one thing and then just ignore the rest. They do it on purpose, I swear it.)
So that's why I go that way with my answer. "Would you like to do this?" That's all you have to ask. Adding other stuff on to it just makes it more complicated.
posted by iguanapolitico at 12:35 PM on April 18, 2008
For me, this comes from my trial and error experience with posing questions over the years. One thing I've learned is to offer a finite number of answers (such as, "do you want X or Y?" rather than, "what do you want?"). Another is to pose questions in a *positive* manner rather than negative. So, don't start with, "You probably don't want to do this, but...". Instead, be positive: "Would you like to do this...?" These methods are effective in getting to the point and coming across as someone who has self esteem (and people who have self esteem are always more engaging and interesting, and the recipient of the question would rather say "yes" to them ... I know this from years of having low self esteem). (Also, particularly in e-mails, stick to *one* question or point. It's so easy for the recipient to answer one thing and then just ignore the rest. They do it on purpose, I swear it.)
So that's why I go that way with my answer. "Would you like to do this?" That's all you have to ask. Adding other stuff on to it just makes it more complicated.
posted by iguanapolitico at 12:35 PM on April 18, 2008
Honestly, I don't think it hurts to offer an out. If it make it easier for you to send her the request in the first place, then go for it. As a fellow guilt-ridden person I tend to do that, too, and I've never noticed it hurting my "turn-down rate." Just makes me feel better, and sometimes I think that's important, too. Just make sure your email is "politely curt" as pedmans says above, and make sure you're clear that what you want is to ask some photography-related questions (rather than trying to wheedle some sort of social call out of her) and go from there.
Also, fwiw, I've gotta disagree that you're being stalkery here (assuming that the situation IS as you describe - that you've simply exchanged a few photography-oriented emails and now just want to meet to ask some photography-related questions and that's all that's going on). The few people I've known who are somewhat in the public eye - or even in the eye of some specialized subsection of the public - because of their work seem like they're used to the occasional contact from fans or from people interested in the field, and most of them are happy to respond so long as the person isn't rude or overbearing or what have you. So again, if you feel less pushy by adding a "it's cool if you can't but I did want to ask" tag to the end of your question, go right ahead.
posted by zeph at 1:41 PM on April 18, 2008
Also, fwiw, I've gotta disagree that you're being stalkery here (assuming that the situation IS as you describe - that you've simply exchanged a few photography-oriented emails and now just want to meet to ask some photography-related questions and that's all that's going on). The few people I've known who are somewhat in the public eye - or even in the eye of some specialized subsection of the public - because of their work seem like they're used to the occasional contact from fans or from people interested in the field, and most of them are happy to respond so long as the person isn't rude or overbearing or what have you. So again, if you feel less pushy by adding a "it's cool if you can't but I did want to ask" tag to the end of your question, go right ahead.
posted by zeph at 1:41 PM on April 18, 2008
I'm chiming in because this feels like the only question I'm qualified to answer today. Also because I do this - I always offer an out, perhaps to excess. I think posing a question like "if you have time" is perfectly polite and not too obsequious.
Also, just a note that the way I'm reading sully75's question is that he (I'm assuming) wants to meet up with this woman to talk about photography, although the proposed email sounds like he wants to meet up socially. Not that talking photography and meeintg socially are necessarily mutually exclusive, but if sully75 isn't interested in getting to know her as a friend (and perhaps more), than my suggestion is that her hone the email so that it conveys that he's interested in her opinions on one or two photography points. Not to belabor the point.
posted by dreamphone at 2:40 PM on April 18, 2008
Also, just a note that the way I'm reading sully75's question is that he (I'm assuming) wants to meet up with this woman to talk about photography, although the proposed email sounds like he wants to meet up socially. Not that talking photography and meeintg socially are necessarily mutually exclusive, but if sully75 isn't interested in getting to know her as a friend (and perhaps more), than my suggestion is that her hone the email so that it conveys that he's interested in her opinions on one or two photography points. Not to belabor the point.
posted by dreamphone at 2:40 PM on April 18, 2008
I disagree with wfrgms - I see no "stalkerish" behavior here. The poster is not some unknown person who is following the celebrity. He has had some interaction with him, apparently mutually satisfactory, in the past. I see nothing wrong with suggesting an in-person meeting, if the other is willing.
posted by megatherium at 3:21 PM on April 18, 2008
posted by megatherium at 3:21 PM on April 18, 2008
A tangent to this is the opposite effect- asking something in a way that offers NO out. I have an acquaintance who will do this:
Him: What are you doing tonight?
Me: Probably nothing, just going to watch some tv.
Him: Oh, good, then you can help me move this piano.
posted by gjc at 3:50 PM on April 18, 2008
Him: What are you doing tonight?
Me: Probably nothing, just going to watch some tv.
Him: Oh, good, then you can help me move this piano.
posted by gjc at 3:50 PM on April 18, 2008
So I'm emailing her, saying "hey there, remember me? I see you might be passing through my town. If so, would you have a little time to join me for a cup of coffee?"
I'd say if you want to send a gracious message the politer course would be to remind her of who you are instead of the "remember me?". E.g., "Perhaps you might recall the emails we exchanged a few years ago when you so kindly gave me advice about [give brief details]. " That creates more a feeling of warmth and respect than giving her an out which she, in any case, already has, and also helps re-establish your original relationship.
posted by mono blanco at 4:28 PM on April 18, 2008
I'd say if you want to send a gracious message the politer course would be to remind her of who you are instead of the "remember me?". E.g., "Perhaps you might recall the emails we exchanged a few years ago when you so kindly gave me advice about [give brief details]. " That creates more a feeling of warmth and respect than giving her an out which she, in any case, already has, and also helps re-establish your original relationship.
posted by mono blanco at 4:28 PM on April 18, 2008
As someone who gets messages like this from time to time while I'm out travelling I'd have to say that offering an out isn't really important, but if you want to seem like you're aware of the value of their time, you might want to change it to "I see you might be passing through my town. If so, I'd love to get a chance to take you out for a cup of coffee nd maybe I could ask you a few photography questions..."
Basically, if I were going to be getting a cup of coffee in your town anyhow, having someone offer to take me out who I knew vaguely might be a nice change from a million solo cups of coffee especially if it were framed as a clear professional meeting. Not like a buck or three matters either way, but it's a nice gesture and does sort of imply "I do get that your time is valuable" which I think is what you are trying to get across. Busy people usually have no problem saying "Oh that's very nice but I'm busy, thank you anyhow" out or no out.
posted by jessamyn at 7:23 PM on April 18, 2008
Basically, if I were going to be getting a cup of coffee in your town anyhow, having someone offer to take me out who I knew vaguely might be a nice change from a million solo cups of coffee especially if it were framed as a clear professional meeting. Not like a buck or three matters either way, but it's a nice gesture and does sort of imply "I do get that your time is valuable" which I think is what you are trying to get across. Busy people usually have no problem saying "Oh that's very nice but I'm busy, thank you anyhow" out or no out.
posted by jessamyn at 7:23 PM on April 18, 2008
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posted by pixlboi at 12:00 PM on April 18, 2008