How much for that Honus Wagner?

August 1, 2006 1:44 PM

Instead of storing my meager personal savings in a low-yield interest account, I'd like to invest in something that interests me, particularly old baseball cards. What do I need to know?

I'm not wanting to enter the market as a speculator, but more as someone who would like to invest wisely in cards that are going to hold their value over the years, and especially if they're of players I admire. Are the issues that are currently plaquing the MLB (performance enhancing drugs, etc.) having an effect on the value of older cards (i.e. pre WWII)? Could someone suggest a good resource for learning more about card grading and condition? Any other suggestions / tips / recommendations?

Thanks!

posted by bjork24 to Sports, Hobbies, & Recreation (28 answers total)

Don't do it....collecting for investment is a good way to lose your shirt. The collectables market is so random that there is no good way to be sure you'll even be able to get your investment back.

An investment account may be boring, but you'll be sure to have the money.

reg
posted by legotech at 1:48 PM on August 1, 2006

Not to discourage you, but perhaps this Slate article might be a good read: Requiem for a Rookie Card How baseball cards lost their luster.
posted by jaimev at 1:48 PM on August 1, 2006

Where did I read that article just a week ago about how the market for collectible sports cards has disappeared and how lots of people lost lots of money in the process... ? Seriously, I'll look for it. But I would invest in something that has some level on intrinsic value. i.e. not baseball cards.
posted by GuyZero at 1:49 PM on August 1, 2006

Oh, yeah, jaimev has it. That was the one.
posted by GuyZero at 1:50 PM on August 1, 2006 [1 favorite]

Slate just had an card collecting. The market for cards has gone way down in recent years. Not sure if this has the same effect for really old, really prized cards, but if you only have meager savings, I am not sure that is obtaining goal.
posted by mmascolino at 1:51 PM on August 1, 2006

Maybe precious metal would be a better idea, Silver and Gold always hold value, and you might make some money in the long run.
posted by gregschoen at 1:52 PM on August 1, 2006

I was going to say that that would probably have an even lower Rate of Return than... I dunno; running an indy movie theatre.

But I figured someone would flag it for deletion, so I decided not to.
posted by baylink at 1:56 PM on August 1, 2006

Sounds from the above posters that baseball cards aren't the way to go. Can I interest you in a short-term CD or money market fund? About as exciting as a savings account, but very low risk and returns of 5% or more is a pretty good deal.
posted by justkevin at 1:58 PM on August 1, 2006

If you do decide to collect collect only the finest examples of cards with proven value. In other words forget anything after Babe Ruth retired... unlike the nay sayers I think there is investment value in those types of cards. The truly rare and important cards. Of course these would be the most expensive and most difficult to find, but so too are good investments in the stock market difficult to find.

But hey what do I know, I collect toys...
posted by Gungho at 2:04 PM on August 1, 2006

People who want to sell you something (eg art or collectibles dealers) will often tell you that what they're selling is a "good investment". In some cases it is, but only if you are ahead of a wave, meaning that you buy into something that is, at the time, relatively unpopular, but after you buy lots of people begin to want exactly what you have. But how do you determine what is the coming wave, in art or other collecting areas?
posted by londongeezer at 2:07 PM on August 1, 2006

Here's some advice; Go visit your nearest collectible cards store. You'll see the cases filled with Yi-Gi-Oh and Magic: The Gathering cards. Off in the darkest, dustiest corner you'll find a stack of random boxes, cases, compartments, and containers -- full of baseball cards. Card shops, the people who are in the business of buying and selling collectible cards, won't even touch personal collections. It's not worth their time to go through collections, although they'll let you drop your collection off for free and sit there until some neighbourhood kid wanders in, in which case they'll give him whole boxes if they'll just take the useless piles of card stock off their hands.

When I went to get rid of my collection, the owner of the store was much more interested in the plastic holders, which he could actually sell. I had complete sets of baseball cards from 1990 to 1995, including the extra editions (i.e. 'black gold') and several rookie cards of now-important players... but the owner expressed more interest in the wooden carrying case I'd built in sixth grade shop class. Am I getting through yet?

If you want your meager savings to be worth anything at all in a few years, boring is the way to go. Your chances of still having your money after 'investing' it in something collectible are slim to none.
posted by SpecialK at 2:15 PM on August 1, 2006

Response by poster: Thanks for all the advice, guys and gals. Perhaps I should've been more specific when I said I wanted to collect something that interests me, because, unfortunately, precious metals and multi-year CDs do not.

Baylink: if running an indie movie theater had as poor an R.O.I. as it seems baseball cards do, I wouldn't be asking a question about where to hide my savings... I'd be asking about Chapter 11 procedures.
posted by bjork24 at 2:16 PM on August 1, 2006

Read the question, folks. The Slate article was interesting, but it doesn't address this question. You're talking about recent cards, and the poster specifically inquired about "pre WWII" cards. He's not asking about speculation (in fact, he even said that); he's asking about old cards whose value has been well established.
posted by cribcage at 2:19 PM on August 1, 2006

Silver and Gold always hold value

Not really true. Precious metals go up and down just like any other commodity.

As for wasting your investment money on collectibles - I've got a 1989 Upper Deck full set. I'll sell it to you for 10 grand, it's a great deal! Seriously though, there's a reason that investors invest in things like the stock market - because that's where you make money.
posted by antifuse at 2:20 PM on August 1, 2006

Response by poster: Thank you, cribcage.

Indeed, I'm interested in old, old, old cards - I'm talking cigarette trading cards. John McGraw, Christy Mathewson, Rube Waddell, Walter Johnson, Tris Speaker, Grover Alexander, Lou Gehrig, Honus Wagner, etc.. I have Ken Burns to thank for introducing me to most of these players, and I think seeking out and finding one of their cards would be a worthwhile endeavor.

Surely, even in this day of worthless post-1960 ballcards, these classic cards would hold their value. Which brings me back to one of my original questions: condition and grading... anyone?
posted by bjork24 at 2:26 PM on August 1, 2006

Gungho has it right. If you decide to throw your money away invest in cards, only buy older, proven cards in the best condition. The problem with investing in collectibles is that your investment is not liquid (you have to find a buyer in order to "cash in") and its value is subject to the whims of an extremely fickle marketplace.

I, too, am a toy collector and while I've seen items that have skyrocketed in price over the past ten years (a $10 batman toy from the 1970s recently sold on eBay for >$15,000), those tend to be anomalous. The majority of collectibles, especially newer pieces that are marketed as collectibles, remain stagnant or lose their value over the years.

Collectilbes are just not a very reliable investment unless you are an expert in the field. The more knowledge you have about a particular collectible, the more likely you'll be able to use that knowledge to profit. You need to do a lot of legwork to find buying opportunities and have the right connections in the hobby when it comes time to sell.
posted by MegoSteve at 2:26 PM on August 1, 2006

Slate: Requiem for a Rookie Card: How baseball cards lost their luster.
posted by kcm at 2:37 PM on August 1, 2006

You need to take a look at Beckett Grading Services or Professional Sports Authenticator. Any card that is expected to hold value needs to be in a certified condition. This has only become the standard in the past decade or so. Also, they do not grade certain years and sets.
You are also going to need to add the cards to your homeowner's (or renters) insurance policy and invest in some secure storage devices.
I would recommend seeking out the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle. A Gem Mint specimen can sell for as much as 275K.
A somewhat flexible market value for baseball cards can be determined by checking ebay listings.
posted by mattbucher at 2:57 PM on August 1, 2006

Actually, crap what I said about Beckett and use PSA or GAI.
posted by mattbucher at 3:03 PM on August 1, 2006

Assume any valuable printed item is a counterfeit.
More info on pre 30's baseball cards at cycleback
posted by Fins at 3:21 PM on August 1, 2006

So the value of baseball cards has gone down. At this time, let us review 'how to make money on investments 101':

1. Buy low
2. Sell high
posted by reklaw at 4:17 PM on August 1, 2006

Mike and Beth across the street have some great collectable sci-fi right now including some signed Ellison and Brin. Invest in that.*

Jason at Centerfield on Booneville street may be a good person to talk to.

*It should be obvious I'm projecting.
posted by sourwookie at 4:43 PM on August 1, 2006

I used to work in a card shop, and what people say here is true. Card collecting isn't so much an investment as a hobby (i.e. you will lose money). Shops make money, but barely and generally have to supplement themselves with ancillary items using the cards more for ambience and traffic generators than actual money making. But if you do want to try your hand, I'd suggest Ebay. I have no experience there unfortunately. But I do know that we had two or three people back at the headquarters of our tiny chain who were solely devoted to buying and selling on Ebay. Beckett was good. But a quick search on Ebay was generally more timely and accurate.
posted by Clock Attention Issues at 5:08 PM on August 1, 2006

Many of the finance books I have read offer this advice; "Don't invest in anything that does not create ongoing income"... e.g. Not art, not antiques, cars, baseball cards etc.

Income is rent, dividends and so on....
If your savings really are meager, it probably is better to have them in a more liquid form too. Can you invest in an e-account? Like ING offers? They generally have reasonable returns and it's safe.
posted by teststrip at 5:10 PM on August 1, 2006

"Assume any valuable printed item is a counterfeit." What Fins says must be right. I am in the art business. People fake paintings worth a few thousand dollars, drawings worth a few hundred. If someone can fake a bit of printed paper worth $275,000 (mattbucher), then someone will. And don't think you'll see it coming, they will have all the technical and also provenance and authentication angles worked out. The stories I could tell you, Swiss banks losing small fortunes etc. I don't know this card business but I have no doubt the deeper you go into the waters of high-value "blue-chip" cards, the bigger the sharks.
posted by londongeezer at 5:20 PM on August 1, 2006

Listen to odinsdream. I just happened upon that site, completely independently, because I'm thinking of laddering CDs. Oh, and take it from someone who's learned a lesson - collectables will NOT make you money. You WILL lose.
posted by ObscureReferenceMan at 5:44 PM on August 1, 2006

I am selling my pre-WWI cards in an SCP Auction this October. I consulted my financial advisor before deciding to do so, and he consulted with someone. And their opinion was that the stock market has a better return than the baseball card market, especially with a longer time horizon (how long you will be investing before expecting a return on your investment).

Good luck.
posted by terrapin at 6:43 AM on August 2, 2006

It's no longer in the cards: "The baseball card market has gone belly-up."
posted by kirkaracha at 10:27 AM on August 10, 2006