Recommend me an ebike!
October 12, 2024 2:37 PM Subscribe
I want an ebike for commuting and erranding through hilly San Francisco. I've read posts here & elsewhere and I do plan to go to a couple shops for advice and test rides, but I'd love recommendations to research before then. Requirements: Parts available at US bike shops, as light as reasonable possible, can handle a 275 lb rider, and if the battery dies I should be able to ride it like a non-e bike. Please don't tell me to use bike share, I do that already and want to own a better one.
If you can make it to Santa Cruz, Gizelle has an experience center.
posted by oceano at 4:28 PM on October 12 [1 favorite]
posted by oceano at 4:28 PM on October 12 [1 favorite]
General advice I think is important: buy from a LBS because if you don't it can be really hard to get maintenance.
Buy from a bike brand that made bikes before and makes ebikes now, not a company that started to make ebikes
Get one with a torque sensor, not a cadence sensor. This is more expensive and most people like it better but it's essential in hilly places like SF.
posted by SaltySalticid at 4:43 PM on October 12 [1 favorite]
Buy from a bike brand that made bikes before and makes ebikes now, not a company that started to make ebikes
Get one with a torque sensor, not a cadence sensor. This is more expensive and most people like it better but it's essential in hilly places like SF.
posted by SaltySalticid at 4:43 PM on October 12 [1 favorite]
Best answer: The New Wheel on Cortland is the place to go. They're extremely knowledgeable and have an excellent service department. They stock moderately priced to luxury bikes; in general, you're best off avoiding the cheap Amazon/eBay bikes as they're not built to last and are infamous for starting fires.
I have a Riese & Müller Load 75 for carting the kids around town. It's as expensive as a small car but it's exceptional. I would buy one of their non-cargo options in a heartbeat: they're exceptionally well built, comfortable, and work great in SF.
posted by kdar at 4:49 PM on October 12 [3 favorites]
I have a Riese & Müller Load 75 for carting the kids around town. It's as expensive as a small car but it's exceptional. I would buy one of their non-cargo options in a heartbeat: they're exceptionally well built, comfortable, and work great in SF.
posted by kdar at 4:49 PM on October 12 [3 favorites]
+1 to New Wheel, when I bought mine they let me ride several floor models around their hilly neighborhood. At the end of each year they’ve typically done a big sale that might work for your timeline; otherwise they always have a few things on clearance to help reduce some sticker shock for you. I bought the floor model of my Stromer ST1 from them this way.
posted by migurski at 6:07 PM on October 12
posted by migurski at 6:07 PM on October 12
I work for a bike shop that sells and services Terns (among other brands) and I am very biased toward them, but nthing the above advice buying from a shop the regularly services the ebikes it sells.
Service is the main issue. If you get a flat, if the motor or anything electrical has issues, if you need a firmware update, you want mechanics who know what they are doing. Best if the shop is near work and/or home.
Most ebikes can take a 275 lb rider and they can all be ridden as a regular bike, but it won't be fun. If you are going to be concerned about range, get a bike with a second battery. Don't get hung up on weight (we just got in an ebike that's reportedly 30 lbs, but it's priced at something like $6900).
Two things to consider when selecting an ebike:
1. How much are your carrying? Kids? Groceries? Work materials?
2. What is your storage situation at work and home? (One reason I love Terns is that they can be stored upright on their rear rack, plus the handlebar can be folded down, so they can take up very little space.)
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 7:13 PM on October 12 [1 favorite]
Service is the main issue. If you get a flat, if the motor or anything electrical has issues, if you need a firmware update, you want mechanics who know what they are doing. Best if the shop is near work and/or home.
Most ebikes can take a 275 lb rider and they can all be ridden as a regular bike, but it won't be fun. If you are going to be concerned about range, get a bike with a second battery. Don't get hung up on weight (we just got in an ebike that's reportedly 30 lbs, but it's priced at something like $6900).
Two things to consider when selecting an ebike:
1. How much are your carrying? Kids? Groceries? Work materials?
2. What is your storage situation at work and home? (One reason I love Terns is that they can be stored upright on their rear rack, plus the handlebar can be folded down, so they can take up very little space.)
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 7:13 PM on October 12 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I appreciate the responses so far! I bike daily and have bought several bikes in my lifetime, and have done a lot of research on ebikes in general already, including building a list of shops to check out, and being aware that it's important to be able to get it serviced (which is why I specified that as a requirement in the post). So what I'm looking for now is recommendations for specific brands/models of ebike, not general advice on purchasing {e}bikes. Do feel free to share why you recommend that specific one, though!
posted by rhiannonstone at 7:44 PM on October 12 [1 favorite]
posted by rhiannonstone at 7:44 PM on October 12 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I love my Tern GSD. Used to ride it in SF, and it trucked my two kids over many a hill. Reliable, zippy, carries a ton, and after using the continuous shifter (S00) I never want to go back.
posted by scyllary at 8:31 PM on October 12
posted by scyllary at 8:31 PM on October 12
Yes, go to the New Wheel and try lots of bikes. I'll highlight a couple specific models in a second, but I really think the best thing to do is to talk to them about your needs and try a variety, because they all feel different and those subjective qualities are more important than specs. You might even take an extended test ride on one to try it on the hills and routes you'll be using specifically. They're selling some demo models you might want to check out too.
Of your criteria, "as light as reasonable possible" is one of the more significant, and I'm curious what's driving it. For some people, that means "I need to be able to carry it up a flight of stairs to store it securely at home," for some people, that means "I really want something that feels like a lightweight road bike," and for others it means "I just don't want a heavy beast of a cargo bike." Consider where you'll be parking it and what your needs are for that (do you need to get it up stairs? through tight spots? remove the battery for charging? do you have something to secure it to if it will be in a garage or common area? etc)
Of the bikes that The New Wheel sells, I suspect the lightest is the Specialized Vado SL, which weighs in at 33lbs. In exchange for that weight savings, you'll pay more and have less cargo capacity and range. If you're willing to move up to the ~50lb range, I'd look at the Gazelle Ultimate/Ultimate Plus/Avignon range, the Aventon Pace or Level.2 (my sense is that Aventon is punching above their weight in providing decent quality at comparatively low prices), and the Tern Quick Haul or NBD. The Tern Vektron is one of the few folding e-bikes I'd trust if you're looking for that. I also just think the Benno RemiDemi looks really cute.
Some things to consider as you test bikes is whether you want a chain/derailuer gearing setup or a belt drive. A chain drive is a bit more maintenance (you'll need to clean and lube it every once in a while) and you can't shift while you're stopped (though this is less of an issue with e-bikes, where the motor will help you out if you're stopped in an inconvenient gear). Also consider whether you like Tern's 20" wheels, it's very much a preference thing. Think about whether you want to be able to put your bike on the front of a bus (handy if you get a flat you can't fix or something breaks or you run out of battery); some e-bikes will fit fine and others won't fit the racks. Also consider whether you want a low-step frame, which can be kind of convenient. Brakes are especially important on an e-bike, where you get a significant amount of mass moving at speed; you want quality hydraulic disc brakes that you feel comfortable with and trust.
IMHO, Tern's low-spec models are often underpowered for SF hills and they come with smaller batteries. I personally think you likely want to go a step up to the Bosch Performance Line motors or better for SF, but you can test it on the hills and see what you think. You can always turn down the assist if you want more of a workout.
When it comes to riding one with a dead battery "like a non-e bike," this really depends on the terrain. On flat ground, you can cruise around 10-12 mph on many e-bikes with the power turned off pretty much indefinitely without a ton of effort. Add a bit of a hill, and it doesn't take much, and the weight of the bike will wear you out fast. Remember that Muni is always an option to get home if your battery dies, and it really does take a lot of riding to drain an e-bike battery staying within the city limits, especially if you're thoughtful about using the lower assist modes.
I would not currently buy VanMoof (recently gone through a bankruptcy and restructuring, limited parts and service availability, many proprietary parts, too many people I know have had issues with them), Rad Power (too many quality problems and proprietary, though it at least sounds like they're trying to turn things around with some of their newest models), or most of the direct-to-consumer brands without a local dealer.
It sounds like you're used to using Bay Wheels, but if you want any bike route or bike community advice in SF, don't hesitate to shout.
posted by zachlipton at 11:41 PM on October 12 [2 favorites]
Of your criteria, "as light as reasonable possible" is one of the more significant, and I'm curious what's driving it. For some people, that means "I need to be able to carry it up a flight of stairs to store it securely at home," for some people, that means "I really want something that feels like a lightweight road bike," and for others it means "I just don't want a heavy beast of a cargo bike." Consider where you'll be parking it and what your needs are for that (do you need to get it up stairs? through tight spots? remove the battery for charging? do you have something to secure it to if it will be in a garage or common area? etc)
Of the bikes that The New Wheel sells, I suspect the lightest is the Specialized Vado SL, which weighs in at 33lbs. In exchange for that weight savings, you'll pay more and have less cargo capacity and range. If you're willing to move up to the ~50lb range, I'd look at the Gazelle Ultimate/Ultimate Plus/Avignon range, the Aventon Pace or Level.2 (my sense is that Aventon is punching above their weight in providing decent quality at comparatively low prices), and the Tern Quick Haul or NBD. The Tern Vektron is one of the few folding e-bikes I'd trust if you're looking for that. I also just think the Benno RemiDemi looks really cute.
Some things to consider as you test bikes is whether you want a chain/derailuer gearing setup or a belt drive. A chain drive is a bit more maintenance (you'll need to clean and lube it every once in a while) and you can't shift while you're stopped (though this is less of an issue with e-bikes, where the motor will help you out if you're stopped in an inconvenient gear). Also consider whether you like Tern's 20" wheels, it's very much a preference thing. Think about whether you want to be able to put your bike on the front of a bus (handy if you get a flat you can't fix or something breaks or you run out of battery); some e-bikes will fit fine and others won't fit the racks. Also consider whether you want a low-step frame, which can be kind of convenient. Brakes are especially important on an e-bike, where you get a significant amount of mass moving at speed; you want quality hydraulic disc brakes that you feel comfortable with and trust.
IMHO, Tern's low-spec models are often underpowered for SF hills and they come with smaller batteries. I personally think you likely want to go a step up to the Bosch Performance Line motors or better for SF, but you can test it on the hills and see what you think. You can always turn down the assist if you want more of a workout.
When it comes to riding one with a dead battery "like a non-e bike," this really depends on the terrain. On flat ground, you can cruise around 10-12 mph on many e-bikes with the power turned off pretty much indefinitely without a ton of effort. Add a bit of a hill, and it doesn't take much, and the weight of the bike will wear you out fast. Remember that Muni is always an option to get home if your battery dies, and it really does take a lot of riding to drain an e-bike battery staying within the city limits, especially if you're thoughtful about using the lower assist modes.
I would not currently buy VanMoof (recently gone through a bankruptcy and restructuring, limited parts and service availability, many proprietary parts, too many people I know have had issues with them), Rad Power (too many quality problems and proprietary, though it at least sounds like they're trying to turn things around with some of their newest models), or most of the direct-to-consumer brands without a local dealer.
It sounds like you're used to using Bay Wheels, but if you want any bike route or bike community advice in SF, don't hesitate to shout.
posted by zachlipton at 11:41 PM on October 12 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I just bought an e-bike after doing a bunch of research. Once I realized that most of the bikes I was seriously considering had hub motors (lighter and more like a regular bike than the typical mid motor e-bike), and almost all of those had motor systems manufactured by a single company, I then discovered that I could find new bikes to compare by looking at the MAHLE SmartBike Systems web site and filtering by the type of bike I was looking for. That helped me identify a few specific models that I could research more deeply. Note that not every hub motor bike uses MAHLE motors (Trek and Specialized don't, to name two) so it's not a perfect search tool, but it worked for me.
I bought a Salsa Confluence, billed as an electric gravel bike, although I'm primarily going to be riding it around DC. It's much lighter than the typical mid motor e-bike, and I'm able to carry it up stairs. Salsa lists the weight of the model I bought as "32 lb 2 oz (55 cm frame)" but I've got the 60 cm size and I'm not sure how much heavier it is because of the larger frame. I've ridden it with the assistance off and the extra weight is totally manageable. It just feels like riding a bike, not the struggle I had getting a Capital Bikeshare bike up a hill that was too steep for the motor to kick in.
What I don't know is if a hub motor has enough power to manage San Francisco's hills. My bike definitely has more than ample power for the hills on my usual routes in DC, but they don't really compare. I think the max grade I've climbed so far is 6%, but if I put the bike on maximum power I can accelerate going up those hills and not just maintain speed.
Since my bike has a rear hub motor a belt drive wasn't an option, and it's still on me to select the right gear. If you want the reduced maintenance and easier shifting of a belt drive with an internally geared hub, you'd need to get a mid motor bike. Belt drives seem to be longer lived than chains on mid motor bikes (somebody I know has snapped three chains on their cargo bike), but the base price point of bikes equipped that way seemed really high to me.
Whatever you do, don't try to rely on /r/ebikes for good advice. There are three factions that all seem to detest each other: people who just want to go fast and don't care about safety or consequences; people obsessed with power over riding characteristics; and people who worry the other two groups are going to do things that result in onerous new laws restricting e-bikes as a rule, ruining it for everybody. Between all the infighting and the people asking the same stupid questions over and over, most questions seem to go unanswered except by people who just want to snipe or people who'd rather repeat their biases than answer the question as asked.
posted by fedward at 5:03 AM on October 13
I bought a Salsa Confluence, billed as an electric gravel bike, although I'm primarily going to be riding it around DC. It's much lighter than the typical mid motor e-bike, and I'm able to carry it up stairs. Salsa lists the weight of the model I bought as "32 lb 2 oz (55 cm frame)" but I've got the 60 cm size and I'm not sure how much heavier it is because of the larger frame. I've ridden it with the assistance off and the extra weight is totally manageable. It just feels like riding a bike, not the struggle I had getting a Capital Bikeshare bike up a hill that was too steep for the motor to kick in.
What I don't know is if a hub motor has enough power to manage San Francisco's hills. My bike definitely has more than ample power for the hills on my usual routes in DC, but they don't really compare. I think the max grade I've climbed so far is 6%, but if I put the bike on maximum power I can accelerate going up those hills and not just maintain speed.
Since my bike has a rear hub motor a belt drive wasn't an option, and it's still on me to select the right gear. If you want the reduced maintenance and easier shifting of a belt drive with an internally geared hub, you'd need to get a mid motor bike. Belt drives seem to be longer lived than chains on mid motor bikes (somebody I know has snapped three chains on their cargo bike), but the base price point of bikes equipped that way seemed really high to me.
Whatever you do, don't try to rely on /r/ebikes for good advice. There are three factions that all seem to detest each other: people who just want to go fast and don't care about safety or consequences; people obsessed with power over riding characteristics; and people who worry the other two groups are going to do things that result in onerous new laws restricting e-bikes as a rule, ruining it for everybody. Between all the infighting and the people asking the same stupid questions over and over, most questions seem to go unanswered except by people who just want to snipe or people who'd rather repeat their biases than answer the question as asked.
posted by fedward at 5:03 AM on October 13
Best answer: I bought a Gazelle Arroyo 8-speed on essentially no research whatsoever. It was the first ebike I test-rode and it is utterly lovely, so I had to have it. It doesn't have a derailleur and I am very glad about that.
posted by scruss at 2:08 PM on October 13
posted by scruss at 2:08 PM on October 13
Best answer: We got a Tern QuickHaul and it has been fantastic. You will want something with a stronger motor at 275lbs I think if you want to regularly do a gnarlier SF hill (like e.g. arguello northbound), but terns check all the boxes wonderfully. Their low profile also makes mount, dismount, cargo, and low speed turning a cakewalk.
I don't know your use case exactly, so please use your own judgement hearing this, but FYI you may not need to worry about "can be pleasantly ridden with no charge". The lowest pedal assist level makes it like riding a regular bike, and the range at that level is enough to circumnavigate SF a couple of times at least.
posted by billjings at 6:11 PM on October 13
I don't know your use case exactly, so please use your own judgement hearing this, but FYI you may not need to worry about "can be pleasantly ridden with no charge". The lowest pedal assist level makes it like riding a regular bike, and the range at that level is enough to circumnavigate SF a couple of times at least.
posted by billjings at 6:11 PM on October 13
On the off-chance that you're considering a conversion of an existing non-electric bike, I really love my Grin Tech GMAC conversion. It's super powerful and was my full car replacement for quite a while. The system gets me both up big hills and safely back down them -- I love the regenerative braking for navigating steep downhills in the rain. (I mean, I still have to pedal, but there is no way I could manage these hills with pedaling alone. I am a born-and-raised flatland cyclist.)
But I don't know if there's a shop in SF that does them. I got mine done at Bike Swift here in Seattle so I have the LBS/maintenance side covered.
posted by cnidaria at 9:07 PM on October 13
But I don't know if there's a shop in SF that does them. I got mine done at Bike Swift here in Seattle so I have the LBS/maintenance side covered.
posted by cnidaria at 9:07 PM on October 13
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posted by rhiannonstone at 2:38 PM on October 12