What's your litmus test for quitting a new "hobby"?
October 7, 2023 10:30 AM Subscribe
I'm not enjoying my new pottery classes. Should I keep going or quit while I'm ahead? When do you typically decide to give up on a hobby/new skill that just isn't working out?
So, I had another pottery class (third in total) and I almost didn't go due to how much I was a flop during the second class. This is, supposedly, a class for beginners but the majority of the class seems to be able to make stuff on the wheel and are just churning out bowl and cup one after the other. I am still struggling with centering and have nothing to show for these classes.
I asked the instructor if this was actually a beginners class and he said "yes it was." Then I asked for more guidance with throwing and he gave those who wanted, another demonstration. This was kind of helpful. Others seemed to have gotten more from it than me, because people who struggled in the last class were able to make bowls! On the other hand, none of this helped me. He even sat with me for a bit watching me center and it was moderately better than last time but it was still BAD.
I just can't understand why *intellectually and physically* I don't know how to get the hang of centering (yes after 2 classes, which is ridiculous because it sounds like it takes hours and hours and hours.... even years... of practice to be good on the wheel!!!), but what are my classmates understanding that I'm not...
...Anyway, I felt so frustrated that I cleaned up my area and snuck out of the class 40 minutes early. As I was cleaning, I asked him if I could just handbuild next week and he looked at me and said "oh, you didn't know you could handbuild? that wasn't clear?" No it wasn't clear when all you focus on is throwing on the wheel and that's what everyone else does! I just had enough failure for that day, while everyone else was succeeding. It makes me feel so shitty that I cannot GET what other people seem to understand easily.
It's not that I'm expecting to be a great potter or anything, not at all, I just thought that it wouldn't make me feel THIS miserable. Why waste my time feeling miserable for 3 solid hours every week? Which sounds dramatic for a class I'm taking through a community arts centre, but it's really making me angry! I've taken other arts classes before (more in the performing arts area) and when I'm not "good" I've pushed through and I've had good instructors. But my failure in this pottery class really infuriates me! Pottery seems to be presented as this "relaxing" "earthy" hobby where it's just "you and the clay." It's been anything but that... this all makes me think that I'm just inherently bad at pottery.
My question is when did you realize a hobby wasn't for you and how did you give up/justify it? There's so much value put in "not quitting" things, that I'm not sure if I should stick with this new hobby I have come to loathe or not. I mean... people should get some sort of pleasure out of their hobbies, right?
So, I had another pottery class (third in total) and I almost didn't go due to how much I was a flop during the second class. This is, supposedly, a class for beginners but the majority of the class seems to be able to make stuff on the wheel and are just churning out bowl and cup one after the other. I am still struggling with centering and have nothing to show for these classes.
I asked the instructor if this was actually a beginners class and he said "yes it was." Then I asked for more guidance with throwing and he gave those who wanted, another demonstration. This was kind of helpful. Others seemed to have gotten more from it than me, because people who struggled in the last class were able to make bowls! On the other hand, none of this helped me. He even sat with me for a bit watching me center and it was moderately better than last time but it was still BAD.
I just can't understand why *intellectually and physically* I don't know how to get the hang of centering (yes after 2 classes, which is ridiculous because it sounds like it takes hours and hours and hours.... even years... of practice to be good on the wheel!!!), but what are my classmates understanding that I'm not...
...Anyway, I felt so frustrated that I cleaned up my area and snuck out of the class 40 minutes early. As I was cleaning, I asked him if I could just handbuild next week and he looked at me and said "oh, you didn't know you could handbuild? that wasn't clear?" No it wasn't clear when all you focus on is throwing on the wheel and that's what everyone else does! I just had enough failure for that day, while everyone else was succeeding. It makes me feel so shitty that I cannot GET what other people seem to understand easily.
It's not that I'm expecting to be a great potter or anything, not at all, I just thought that it wouldn't make me feel THIS miserable. Why waste my time feeling miserable for 3 solid hours every week? Which sounds dramatic for a class I'm taking through a community arts centre, but it's really making me angry! I've taken other arts classes before (more in the performing arts area) and when I'm not "good" I've pushed through and I've had good instructors. But my failure in this pottery class really infuriates me! Pottery seems to be presented as this "relaxing" "earthy" hobby where it's just "you and the clay." It's been anything but that... this all makes me think that I'm just inherently bad at pottery.
My question is when did you realize a hobby wasn't for you and how did you give up/justify it? There's so much value put in "not quitting" things, that I'm not sure if I should stick with this new hobby I have come to loathe or not. I mean... people should get some sort of pleasure out of their hobbies, right?
Are there other studios/instructors you could take classes from? Sometimes a specific teacher is just a bad match for your learning style but that doesn’t mean the hobby itself is a bad fit for you.
posted by mekily at 10:36 AM on October 7, 2023 [19 favorites]
posted by mekily at 10:36 AM on October 7, 2023 [19 favorites]
This sounds like a bad teacher or at least a bad fit so maybe try somewhere else.
I tried to learn guitar a few years ago. I committed to daily practice and lessons. After 1 year I felt I had really given it a good try and will never be much good on guitar and so for me that was enough to know I had really tried and hopefully gained skills at at least sticking with something.
Having said that, the point of this is to have fun, right? If you're miserable, move on!
posted by latkes at 10:40 AM on October 7, 2023
I tried to learn guitar a few years ago. I committed to daily practice and lessons. After 1 year I felt I had really given it a good try and will never be much good on guitar and so for me that was enough to know I had really tried and hopefully gained skills at at least sticking with something.
Having said that, the point of this is to have fun, right? If you're miserable, move on!
posted by latkes at 10:40 AM on October 7, 2023
There is no 'correct' answer here, but I think you should give this hobby another chance. Focus on what you'd like to get out of it and if possible discreetly talk to the instructor at the start and let them know as well. This hobby is for you, so focus on that and do what you can to not make it a forum for self-comparison to others.
As a point of reference I teach beginner dance and that beginner title doesn't necessarily mean that everyone has anything like the same background. Some folks have extensive experience in similar activities, others are back for their third (or tenth) time through a similar program. It just means the space is welcoming and supportive of beginners, as it sounds like this instructor is endeavoring to be for you.
I do get the frustration with wanting to have a physical product out of the hobby, so I don't diminish that at all. Without a background in pottery, it sounds like coil and slab building may be a fun place to start.
posted by meinvt at 10:42 AM on October 7, 2023 [8 favorites]
As a point of reference I teach beginner dance and that beginner title doesn't necessarily mean that everyone has anything like the same background. Some folks have extensive experience in similar activities, others are back for their third (or tenth) time through a similar program. It just means the space is welcoming and supportive of beginners, as it sounds like this instructor is endeavoring to be for you.
I do get the frustration with wanting to have a physical product out of the hobby, so I don't diminish that at all. Without a background in pottery, it sounds like coil and slab building may be a fun place to start.
posted by meinvt at 10:42 AM on October 7, 2023 [8 favorites]
I truly love pottery and truly hate wheelthrowing!
Try making a pinch pot, try some slab building, coil pots can be fun.... IMO community arts programs do themselves a major disservice when they focus on teaching wheel throwing above all else.
That said, When you know, you know.
posted by wowenthusiast at 10:43 AM on October 7, 2023 [11 favorites]
Try making a pinch pot, try some slab building, coil pots can be fun.... IMO community arts programs do themselves a major disservice when they focus on teaching wheel throwing above all else.
That said, When you know, you know.
posted by wowenthusiast at 10:43 AM on October 7, 2023 [11 favorites]
I believe some people just have different aptitudes or preferences. My wife was raised playing piano and a brass instrument, and she doesn't exactly love practice, but she does it and gets something out of it and definitely enjoys playing/learning pieces. I've tried to pick up music of various sorts and it's extremely frustrating for me. For some reason, visual art works better with the way my brain does practice, or maybe with how I learned to do practice (it's the opposite for my wife). That said, I don't think this has to stop a hobby. If you really want to, you can probably push yourself through the learning curve, it may just take longer and be less immediately rewarding in terms of output than you want. Another important note: don't measure yourself against your classmates, measure yourself against yourself last week!
posted by Alterscape at 10:52 AM on October 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Alterscape at 10:52 AM on October 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
My general feeling on this is that if my kids want to quit I tell them to finish the class or the season, but if I, a grown woman, am no longer having a good time, I'm outta there with extreme prejudice. I know myself well enough to know when it's worth my while to push through my discomfort. Life is too short! Don't throw good time after bad!
I took ceramics for a full academic year in high school and never successfully threw anything on the wheel. It just stressed me out for some reason. I felt like something about coordinating my hands with the foot pedal never felt right and I hated how nasty my hands felt. Just not my thing.
posted by potrzebie at 10:58 AM on October 7, 2023
I took ceramics for a full academic year in high school and never successfully threw anything on the wheel. It just stressed me out for some reason. I felt like something about coordinating my hands with the foot pedal never felt right and I hated how nasty my hands felt. Just not my thing.
posted by potrzebie at 10:58 AM on October 7, 2023
This spring I had the same feeling after my first three calligraphy classes - the other people in the group had all drawn or calligraphied with a dip pen before and I just couldn't get a hang of it, so I'd get maybe 20 seconds of decent writing time with each dip (dripping initially, and then drying out like the Sahara). And then my hands shook and I couldn't get a line straight, never mind matching curves.
And then the fourth lesson was with a substitute and she tried explaining it a different way and it just clicked - my pressure had been wrong and once I eased off, suddenly the pen obeyed me. For the first time in my life I was writing readable script. I'm starting an intermediate calligraphy class next week, I enjoyed it so much.
So I'd ask around if someone else can explain centering to you. Hell, ask the people who improved between the first and second class. Try poking around Youtube. As long as this is your only problem - unlike sensory issues etc - that one hitch might be worth fighting against.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 11:10 AM on October 7, 2023 [11 favorites]
And then the fourth lesson was with a substitute and she tried explaining it a different way and it just clicked - my pressure had been wrong and once I eased off, suddenly the pen obeyed me. For the first time in my life I was writing readable script. I'm starting an intermediate calligraphy class next week, I enjoyed it so much.
So I'd ask around if someone else can explain centering to you. Hell, ask the people who improved between the first and second class. Try poking around Youtube. As long as this is your only problem - unlike sensory issues etc - that one hitch might be worth fighting against.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 11:10 AM on October 7, 2023 [11 favorites]
I feel for you--I'm someone who does pottery, has no special knack for it, and has no prior creative identity and so I still struggle with feeling like an imposter at the studio. So I've had my share of "should I quit" moments, even though it's my favorite thing to do now.
People mischaracterize pottery, especially wheel throwing, as meditative or gentle or relaxing. It is none of those things, especially for a beginner. You are wrestling with literal physics, and that's what it feels like you're doing.
Can you tell us what aspects you have enjoyed? Agree with people saying "bad instructor" and "try hand building," but would also help to know which parts, if any, havf felt worth your time so far.
Bad instructors are a sadly major part of pottery world. Most studio instructors have no pedagogical background.
posted by kensington314 at 11:20 AM on October 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
People mischaracterize pottery, especially wheel throwing, as meditative or gentle or relaxing. It is none of those things, especially for a beginner. You are wrestling with literal physics, and that's what it feels like you're doing.
Can you tell us what aspects you have enjoyed? Agree with people saying "bad instructor" and "try hand building," but would also help to know which parts, if any, havf felt worth your time so far.
Bad instructors are a sadly major part of pottery world. Most studio instructors have no pedagogical background.
posted by kensington314 at 11:20 AM on October 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
I quit ballroom dancing classes after the first lesson. There is no shortage of interesting, fun, rewarding things to do in this world.
This Internet stranger gives you permission to quit and find something that suits you better and doesn't have a steep learning curve before it becomes enjoyable.
posted by akk2014 at 11:30 AM on October 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
This Internet stranger gives you permission to quit and find something that suits you better and doesn't have a steep learning curve before it becomes enjoyable.
posted by akk2014 at 11:30 AM on October 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
YouTube. Florian Gadsby is a great watch with lots of material.
I found centering easier by finding a way to brace my elbow against one knee. Then I had a stable point from which to push the clay around. It's worth persevering and doing the same thing again and again is what practice is and is also what a lot of production potters do anyway. Good luck!
posted by gerygone at 11:34 AM on October 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
I found centering easier by finding a way to brace my elbow against one knee. Then I had a stable point from which to push the clay around. It's worth persevering and doing the same thing again and again is what practice is and is also what a lot of production potters do anyway. Good luck!
posted by gerygone at 11:34 AM on October 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
An internet acquaintance of mine wanted to take up a certain sport. But she kept trying and failing. Her teachers were bad, and seemed to think she was just incompetent. What she gradually realized, though, was that the available equipment just wasn't made for small-framed women; and they wouldn't let her train on different equipment. So she did a bunch of research, had a lot of conversations in person and by email, and eventually talked a retired teacher into giving her private lessons. I can't say that there is a happy ending yet, but even if things never end up working out for her, I think she's happier for having fought for her place in that world rather than accepting the first "no."
Which is to say: you're absolutely within your rights to quit if you are feeling frustrated and unhappy. But I also think there can be something really valuable in taking up arms against that frustration, and saying, "Well, if it takes me three times longer to learn this than everybody else, I'll just take three times as long, that's fine! If I have to watch a bunch of YouTube tutorials to try to wrap my head around this concept, that's fine!"
It can be valuable to understand yourself as a person who can summon those reserves of grit and perseverance, when it is worth it to do so - and also have the good judgment to recognize those times when no, it's not worth it.
posted by Jeanne at 11:46 AM on October 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Which is to say: you're absolutely within your rights to quit if you are feeling frustrated and unhappy. But I also think there can be something really valuable in taking up arms against that frustration, and saying, "Well, if it takes me three times longer to learn this than everybody else, I'll just take three times as long, that's fine! If I have to watch a bunch of YouTube tutorials to try to wrap my head around this concept, that's fine!"
It can be valuable to understand yourself as a person who can summon those reserves of grit and perseverance, when it is worth it to do so - and also have the good judgment to recognize those times when no, it's not worth it.
posted by Jeanne at 11:46 AM on October 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
I’ve found that I need hobbies I can enjoy being bad at. I’m bad at knitting but don’t enjoy practicing or learning it. I think I’d like it once I got the hang of it, but the learning part is too unsatisfying and frustrating. I’m pretty bad at sewing, but I notice that I’m not upset when I spend a bunch of time puzzling through something and I end up with a finished project I don’t like.
I like making pottery. I like making mediocre, practice pieces. It’s fun even if I scrap everything I threw at the end of the session. I did have a few lessons where I felt very frustrated and considered giving up. Basically, there were a few concepts I really struggled to make sense of with my body. And then they kind of clicked—like, I couldn’t execute the skills perfectly, but I kind of knew what I was trying to do and could tell I was getting closer.
All that’s to say, if you think you’d really enjoy pottery, try a different teacher. This one doesn’t seem like a great fit for you. But if you don’t think you can enjoy figuring this out and making a ton of mediocre stuff while you learn, that’s fine too. Hobbies are meant to be fun.
posted by theotherdurassister at 11:58 AM on October 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
I like making pottery. I like making mediocre, practice pieces. It’s fun even if I scrap everything I threw at the end of the session. I did have a few lessons where I felt very frustrated and considered giving up. Basically, there were a few concepts I really struggled to make sense of with my body. And then they kind of clicked—like, I couldn’t execute the skills perfectly, but I kind of knew what I was trying to do and could tell I was getting closer.
All that’s to say, if you think you’d really enjoy pottery, try a different teacher. This one doesn’t seem like a great fit for you. But if you don’t think you can enjoy figuring this out and making a ton of mediocre stuff while you learn, that’s fine too. Hobbies are meant to be fun.
posted by theotherdurassister at 11:58 AM on October 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
Why did you choose to do pottery in the first place? To relax? Then go into with that intention - i.e. don't worry if you're good at it, or how you compare to others, but just, focus on the feel of the clay, the joy of moulding something, etc.
In my first yoga class, I was overwhelmed by how much better everyone was than me, and how I didn't know any of the poses. Thankfully, my teacher had a slew of truisms she'd say throughout the class about not comparing ourselves to others, not worrying about being perfect, and urged us to just focus on how our body felt and doing our best. And while I initially internally was rolling my eyes, the fact was this was correct, if a bit cheesy - and eventually I came to really like it even if I wasn't great at it, and gradually once I stopped caring about being "good" I realized I was getting better at it, albeit slowly.
In short, I'm not sure the problem here is pottery or even your teacher (I mean, they might not be the best), but that it sounds like you're putting a lot of pressure on being good/skilled at a hobby you are new to, and that's supposed to be relaxing. That sounds like a mindset problem, mainly.
posted by coffeecat at 12:01 PM on October 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
In my first yoga class, I was overwhelmed by how much better everyone was than me, and how I didn't know any of the poses. Thankfully, my teacher had a slew of truisms she'd say throughout the class about not comparing ourselves to others, not worrying about being perfect, and urged us to just focus on how our body felt and doing our best. And while I initially internally was rolling my eyes, the fact was this was correct, if a bit cheesy - and eventually I came to really like it even if I wasn't great at it, and gradually once I stopped caring about being "good" I realized I was getting better at it, albeit slowly.
In short, I'm not sure the problem here is pottery or even your teacher (I mean, they might not be the best), but that it sounds like you're putting a lot of pressure on being good/skilled at a hobby you are new to, and that's supposed to be relaxing. That sounds like a mindset problem, mainly.
posted by coffeecat at 12:01 PM on October 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
I was a pottery major in art school, and I hope I have some helpful suggestions on how to get started. I've not taught a class, but I've had some less-than-helpful instructors.
Use really soft clay while you are learning to center! Experienced potters prefer really stiff clay because if you try to make something large or with thin walls you will need stiff clay to retain the piece's vertical walls, since they must be strong enough to counter the centrifugal force of the wheel and bear the weight of the form above. Of course you need water to keep the clay slippery, but you will notice that the advanced throwers use minimal water and frequently sponge it off the walls and out of the bottom of the piece inside. They know water will soften the clay and the walls will be prone to deform or buckle. There's a constant tension between the softness of the clay and the additional throwing water, the size of the form and the thinness of the walls (which, of course, are much less strong than thick walls.)
But you aren't worried about that right now, so use soft clay, like reclaimed clay from the inevitable slop bucket for failed attempts poured out onto your plaster wedging surface (designed to absorb water while you wedge) and then wedged to a quite soft texture, but not drooping in your hand. If you were given a bag of clay and have to use that, you can try to wedge water into it with a spray bottle and gentle wedging until it's a good, but soft, pliability.
Now slap a 2-cup sized lump of soft clay on your dry wheelhead and set a bucket of water within reach.
Sit and start the wheel slowly, and bend your body over the lump. Really get your head and chest on top of that clay, not just a timid lean. You are going to hold your hips and torso firmly in place. If you can imagine it as a lathe used in woodworking - you are the shaping piece biting into the wood, and the clay is your wooden pole. You want to make the heel of your left hand so stationary and strong that held against the soft clay, the clay will move itself into a perfectly circular shape. To do this I braced my left elbow against my left hipbone to make a strong immovable tool of the heel of my left hand. Your right hand can help, to add water, but the heel of the left hand is your major centering tool. After you feel that the lump is centered, you can push down with your right hand to widen and shorten the lump, but keep your left elbow firmly against your hip and your left hand strong. Don't worry about making anything at this point (your clay is too soft to be very successful, anyway). All you want to do is to master centering. When you feel your clay is centered, increase the speed of the wheel a bit - misjudgments about whether the clay is centered will appear. Recenter using the same technique. When you feel the clay is really centered, you can try sticking your right thumb gently into the center of the lump and pulling gently out. This is called "opening" Your left thumb can now join in opening and you can remove your elbow its from home base against your hip because your piece is centered. Any time your piece seems wobbly, it is NOT CENTERED and you will have to try again. Even experienced potters make errors when centering, but it just takes practice and a dependable technique to center successfully.
Once you feel you have a grip on centering, and want to try to make something, you can use clay that is a bit stiffer. I wonder if watching a few youtube films on centering might be helpful There are certainly other successful techniques than the one I described, and other body positions, such as standing wheels, but this one works. I'm certain you can master it!
posted by citygirl at 12:20 PM on October 7, 2023 [14 favorites]
Use really soft clay while you are learning to center! Experienced potters prefer really stiff clay because if you try to make something large or with thin walls you will need stiff clay to retain the piece's vertical walls, since they must be strong enough to counter the centrifugal force of the wheel and bear the weight of the form above. Of course you need water to keep the clay slippery, but you will notice that the advanced throwers use minimal water and frequently sponge it off the walls and out of the bottom of the piece inside. They know water will soften the clay and the walls will be prone to deform or buckle. There's a constant tension between the softness of the clay and the additional throwing water, the size of the form and the thinness of the walls (which, of course, are much less strong than thick walls.)
But you aren't worried about that right now, so use soft clay, like reclaimed clay from the inevitable slop bucket for failed attempts poured out onto your plaster wedging surface (designed to absorb water while you wedge) and then wedged to a quite soft texture, but not drooping in your hand. If you were given a bag of clay and have to use that, you can try to wedge water into it with a spray bottle and gentle wedging until it's a good, but soft, pliability.
Now slap a 2-cup sized lump of soft clay on your dry wheelhead and set a bucket of water within reach.
Sit and start the wheel slowly, and bend your body over the lump. Really get your head and chest on top of that clay, not just a timid lean. You are going to hold your hips and torso firmly in place. If you can imagine it as a lathe used in woodworking - you are the shaping piece biting into the wood, and the clay is your wooden pole. You want to make the heel of your left hand so stationary and strong that held against the soft clay, the clay will move itself into a perfectly circular shape. To do this I braced my left elbow against my left hipbone to make a strong immovable tool of the heel of my left hand. Your right hand can help, to add water, but the heel of the left hand is your major centering tool. After you feel that the lump is centered, you can push down with your right hand to widen and shorten the lump, but keep your left elbow firmly against your hip and your left hand strong. Don't worry about making anything at this point (your clay is too soft to be very successful, anyway). All you want to do is to master centering. When you feel your clay is centered, increase the speed of the wheel a bit - misjudgments about whether the clay is centered will appear. Recenter using the same technique. When you feel the clay is really centered, you can try sticking your right thumb gently into the center of the lump and pulling gently out. This is called "opening" Your left thumb can now join in opening and you can remove your elbow its from home base against your hip because your piece is centered. Any time your piece seems wobbly, it is NOT CENTERED and you will have to try again. Even experienced potters make errors when centering, but it just takes practice and a dependable technique to center successfully.
Once you feel you have a grip on centering, and want to try to make something, you can use clay that is a bit stiffer. I wonder if watching a few youtube films on centering might be helpful There are certainly other successful techniques than the one I described, and other body positions, such as standing wheels, but this one works. I'm certain you can master it!
posted by citygirl at 12:20 PM on October 7, 2023 [14 favorites]
the thing about pottery is that it's messy, can often need special equipment, and then the pieces need to be fired to be finished, so it's hard to do it at home. Why not find a nice youtube tutorial of something you'd like to hand-build, and then go into the class with the intention of following it instead of the instructor. Look at it as studio time instead of a class - you're paying to use their supplies and equipment, and to get your results fired. That way you bypass the lousy instructor, and won't be able to compare yourself to the rest of the class. Might be worth using this approach and take one more class, and then if that doesn't help then bail out.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:24 PM on October 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:24 PM on October 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
I wish I could get you for an hour. I teach art for a living and do pottery for fun. By all means quit if you want to. But if you are cheap like me and don’t want to waste money then put in some good music or podcasts next time and do some hand building and just mess around. The Instagram account troymadeit has some cute, quick stuff. I just saw a trick on there with foam, a press and some cornstarch that I’m going to try. One of the beginning classes at my studio just made these cabbage leaf bowls and they are great. People like Florian Gadsby mentioned above are amazing but waaaay beyond beginning stuff.
I will say that part of working with clay is dealing with things going wrong (dries too fast and cracks, gets blown up when someone else’s air bubble explodes in the kiln, glaze runs and sticks to the shelf, etc etc) which some people find hard to deal with. You aren’t weird finding centring hard. Everyone does, and like you’ve seen above lots of people just don’t do it and hand build instead, including many professional potters.
posted by Cuke at 1:32 PM on October 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
I will say that part of working with clay is dealing with things going wrong (dries too fast and cracks, gets blown up when someone else’s air bubble explodes in the kiln, glaze runs and sticks to the shelf, etc etc) which some people find hard to deal with. You aren’t weird finding centring hard. Everyone does, and like you’ve seen above lots of people just don’t do it and hand build instead, including many professional potters.
posted by Cuke at 1:32 PM on October 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Agreed with everyone else that 1) your instructor doesn’t sound like a great fit, so maybe watch some YouTube or ask your classmates for tips and 2) don’t be afraid to just play around with the clay and hand build. A friend of mine hates working on the wheel so he just hand builds pots and little figurines, both of which he paints and glazes. Honestly his idiosyncratic little creations are so much fun and everyone in my friend group clamours to get his stuff instead of perfectly made bowls or whatever.
That said, if you feel like a big weight would be off your shoulders if you never went again, then don’t go. You can always sign up to another class if you regret not pursuing pottery later.
posted by thebots at 1:42 PM on October 7, 2023
That said, if you feel like a big weight would be off your shoulders if you never went again, then don’t go. You can always sign up to another class if you regret not pursuing pottery later.
posted by thebots at 1:42 PM on October 7, 2023
Life is short. You are persistent in other areas! It’s ok to quit. You can try again later if it haunts you.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:17 PM on October 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 2:17 PM on October 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Your story is uncannily similar to one a friend from work told me: feeling miserable at pottery class while everyone around her made pieces that felt beyond her beginner level, thinking she was in the wrong class, confirming that it was for beginners etc. It turns out that everyone else in the class had taken this exact beginner class three, four, five, ten times. Don't assume the people around you have never done this before.
posted by Trivia Newton John at 2:44 PM on October 7, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by Trivia Newton John at 2:44 PM on October 7, 2023 [12 favorites]
One other thing about pottery classes: in my “beginner” class, there were several students who had taken at least one serious pottery class before, and a one who had a home studio with her own wheel. I learned a lot watching the more advanced students—just seeing them practice skills competently but not as effortlessly as our (professional ceramicist) teacher was helpful. I think “beginner” level pottery classes are often more like “all skill levels welcome” than a class specifically designed to teach a group of total newbies a specific set of skills.
posted by theotherdurassister at 3:34 PM on October 7, 2023
posted by theotherdurassister at 3:34 PM on October 7, 2023
Why waste my time feeling miserable for 3 solid hours every week?
Indeed. What are you hoping to get out of the hobby? It is a hobby, you've got to enjoy it at some level, if I was you I'd move on to something less enraging. If you can see the kernel of something worthwhile in the pursuit then at least move teachers, whether or not they are good, they aren't good for you.
posted by deadwax at 4:42 PM on October 7, 2023
Indeed. What are you hoping to get out of the hobby? It is a hobby, you've got to enjoy it at some level, if I was you I'd move on to something less enraging. If you can see the kernel of something worthwhile in the pursuit then at least move teachers, whether or not they are good, they aren't good for you.
posted by deadwax at 4:42 PM on October 7, 2023
I’m a serial dabbler in hobbies with varying dgrees of success (mostly sports / gym related but also pottery) and I’ve learnt a thing or two about the learning process, classes etc.
First - you don’t have to be good at your hobbies to enjoy them. Also you have permission to walk out on it at any point - it’s just a hobby!
Your purpose - identifying the reason that drew you to it (beyond getting good at that skill itself) will keep you going when you feel like you’re not doing so well. And it would help you decide if the specific instructor/ coach / class situation is helpful or counterproductive to your goals.
Expectations vs Reality - You should also examine if your expectations actually align with the actual experience of doing that hobby on a regular basis, do the joys of doing it (even badly) outweigh the downsides?
Comparison and feeling shame / judgment can greatly hinder your learning - because willingness to just fail and be bad at something and yet try again is key to learning. It’s good to remember that even in the same beginners class everyone brings a different set of past experiences and skills into it, which may help them in ways you may not see. Talk to your classmates about their journey and experiences if you can!
Now specific to pottery - I am not in the US but the school I went to had a requirement that all students had to complete their basic & intermediate hand building course before moving on to wheel pottery. And their basic handbuilding course had step by step instructions on every single thing. Instructors would also go around and we could ask them to assist with any step we were having trouble with. And still I was shocked by how NOT relaxing pottery was for me - the incredible amount of sustained focus it required would leave me flat out exhausted after every class (even if I enjoyed the class itself). If I had been thrown into a class where everyone was doing their own thing on either a wheel or by hand building I would certainly be overwhelmed, just like you are now. So as someone with no aptitude for crafts I would really encourage you to see if you are able to find more structured, guided classes (and if you are able to pull out of this one with minimal cost)
In the end I decided to stop pottery after completing intermediate hand building, because sitting in a really hot studio (I am based in Asia) and having to focus so hard for 3 hours every weekend was not my cup of tea. But I got a few pieces I liked out of it and I learned enough about ceramics to appreciate them so I was satisfied.
posted by pandanpanda at 6:08 PM on October 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
First - you don’t have to be good at your hobbies to enjoy them. Also you have permission to walk out on it at any point - it’s just a hobby!
Your purpose - identifying the reason that drew you to it (beyond getting good at that skill itself) will keep you going when you feel like you’re not doing so well. And it would help you decide if the specific instructor/ coach / class situation is helpful or counterproductive to your goals.
Expectations vs Reality - You should also examine if your expectations actually align with the actual experience of doing that hobby on a regular basis, do the joys of doing it (even badly) outweigh the downsides?
Comparison and feeling shame / judgment can greatly hinder your learning - because willingness to just fail and be bad at something and yet try again is key to learning. It’s good to remember that even in the same beginners class everyone brings a different set of past experiences and skills into it, which may help them in ways you may not see. Talk to your classmates about their journey and experiences if you can!
Now specific to pottery - I am not in the US but the school I went to had a requirement that all students had to complete their basic & intermediate hand building course before moving on to wheel pottery. And their basic handbuilding course had step by step instructions on every single thing. Instructors would also go around and we could ask them to assist with any step we were having trouble with. And still I was shocked by how NOT relaxing pottery was for me - the incredible amount of sustained focus it required would leave me flat out exhausted after every class (even if I enjoyed the class itself). If I had been thrown into a class where everyone was doing their own thing on either a wheel or by hand building I would certainly be overwhelmed, just like you are now. So as someone with no aptitude for crafts I would really encourage you to see if you are able to find more structured, guided classes (and if you are able to pull out of this one with minimal cost)
In the end I decided to stop pottery after completing intermediate hand building, because sitting in a really hot studio (I am based in Asia) and having to focus so hard for 3 hours every weekend was not my cup of tea. But I got a few pieces I liked out of it and I learned enough about ceramics to appreciate them so I was satisfied.
posted by pandanpanda at 6:08 PM on October 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Um, throwing pots is HARD, I won't even TRY doing it. I've taken ceramics, but only sculpture classes. Don't judge yourself for not getting it after 2 damn classes. Finish the series and THEN see how you feel. That said, maybe this instructor's not the best either, so that could also be it.
Here's my closest experience to yours (and i claim sanctuary): I took a yarn spinning class. Pretty much EVERYONE BUT ME was magically, naturally good at it from the get-go. Most people want to spin fine, thin, tiny twine yarn, and that seems to be what's expected, and that's what people were doing immediately. NOT ME. I was spinning chunky. Or what is also referred to as "art yarn," i.e. "this is deliberately weird." I was embarrassed at myself because everyone else was a natural and I was...not.
Though I will note that halfway through the class, we ended up with a substitute for two weeks and she was all, "oh, you don't have to draft with your non-dominant hand, you can do it with the right one" (I note the instructor had said to pull out the yarn raw material with your left hand) and that improved things. That said, I never expected to spin yarn EVER again after that, but found myself doing it off and on since then.
I NEVER spin fine, thin yarn. Truth be told, I don't like working with tiny thin yarn, and I end up making worsted to chunky weight "art yarn" every time. I've decided I don't give a shit and that's fine. You could also say "fuck making pots" (I note my old volunteer job used to have a ceramics instructor who pointed out that after awhile, nobody wants your pots, none of your friends and family want your pots, and you can't sell them.) and just build stuff instead too.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:24 PM on October 7, 2023
Here's my closest experience to yours (and i claim sanctuary): I took a yarn spinning class. Pretty much EVERYONE BUT ME was magically, naturally good at it from the get-go. Most people want to spin fine, thin, tiny twine yarn, and that seems to be what's expected, and that's what people were doing immediately. NOT ME. I was spinning chunky. Or what is also referred to as "art yarn," i.e. "this is deliberately weird." I was embarrassed at myself because everyone else was a natural and I was...not.
Though I will note that halfway through the class, we ended up with a substitute for two weeks and she was all, "oh, you don't have to draft with your non-dominant hand, you can do it with the right one" (I note the instructor had said to pull out the yarn raw material with your left hand) and that improved things. That said, I never expected to spin yarn EVER again after that, but found myself doing it off and on since then.
I NEVER spin fine, thin yarn. Truth be told, I don't like working with tiny thin yarn, and I end up making worsted to chunky weight "art yarn" every time. I've decided I don't give a shit and that's fine. You could also say "fuck making pots" (I note my old volunteer job used to have a ceramics instructor who pointed out that after awhile, nobody wants your pots, none of your friends and family want your pots, and you can't sell them.) and just build stuff instead too.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:24 PM on October 7, 2023
A long time ago I did a non-credit recreational pottery "class" at the local university, where mostly the instructor left people alone to do their own thing unless you asked him for something. I tried the wheel, tried a little handbuilding, learned very little, and stopped going. On the other hand, I did see a really cute weasel there one day - the studio was in sort of a shed in the middle of a field.
I also tried a weaving class from the same place, and I also stopped going after a few classes. Everyone was very nice but had been doing this for ages, and there was just so much I would have had to learn in order to make anything I wanted to make. I'm totally fine that I left with only a couple mediocre scarves. It was fun that I'd learned about a hidden community of women who had met every week for decades in a room full of looms in the quiet basement of the old university gym building.
In a different place, I took a community college handbuilding class from an excellent instructor who taught specific techniques, required students to take notes and make sketches in a sketchbook, and went around giving hands-on constructive feedback as we were working on things. She believed that everyone in a miscellaneous collection of beginner and intermediate students could do serious work, and we did.
I believe it's great to try new things, and it's also great to quit things you're not into and try other new things.
posted by dreamyshade at 6:52 PM on October 7, 2023
I also tried a weaving class from the same place, and I also stopped going after a few classes. Everyone was very nice but had been doing this for ages, and there was just so much I would have had to learn in order to make anything I wanted to make. I'm totally fine that I left with only a couple mediocre scarves. It was fun that I'd learned about a hidden community of women who had met every week for decades in a room full of looms in the quiet basement of the old university gym building.
In a different place, I took a community college handbuilding class from an excellent instructor who taught specific techniques, required students to take notes and make sketches in a sketchbook, and went around giving hands-on constructive feedback as we were working on things. She believed that everyone in a miscellaneous collection of beginner and intermediate students could do serious work, and we did.
I believe it's great to try new things, and it's also great to quit things you're not into and try other new things.
posted by dreamyshade at 6:52 PM on October 7, 2023
Life is too short to do things that make you miserable if you don't have to. I'd quit this class and try a different one if I was really into trying pottery.
The problem with "beginner" classes is usually anyone can sign up for them. A good instructor would spend time teaching the actual beginners. The sounds like a bad teacher.
posted by Mavri at 7:12 PM on October 7, 2023
The problem with "beginner" classes is usually anyone can sign up for them. A good instructor would spend time teaching the actual beginners. The sounds like a bad teacher.
posted by Mavri at 7:12 PM on October 7, 2023
I think one question would be how you think you would feel if everyone in the class were doing the same as you. Or how you would feel if everyone were slightly behind you in progress. That is, is it the pottery that's not fun in and of itself, or is it the feeling of not measuring up against "classmates", or some imaginary schedule?
It can be hard to disentangle those two, but if at any point you felt some excitement handling the clay, or found it even a bit hypnotic or interesting to watch it spin around, then I'd try to keep going for a while, maybe doing handbuilding if you find you enjoy that more, or - and this is not easy - reminding yourself that you're not actually in school there, that this is one space in life where there is zero actual competition - not for grades, not for jobs, not for anything else - and that it really is just a space to play with a new material and tools and make progress on your own schedule.
That said, I've never been good at putting aside the ingrained habit of seeing things competitively, so often I've done best with hobbies I do on my own. But there are downsides since that's a lot less social, and then there are hobbies, like pottery, where you really do need expensive equipment and guidance. So if you find, on reflection, that you would actually like to keep playing around with clay but that the class environment just isn't working for you, and you're not able to become a serene clay-tinkerer with eyes only for your own work, caring not a fig for others' - then I wonder if you could look around for one-on-one lessons with a teacher you feel good with, where you wouldn't need to measure yourself against anyone else.
Or quit. Or quit and pick it up again later. You're an adult, we're finally at a point where it's all allowed.
posted by trig at 7:17 PM on October 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
It can be hard to disentangle those two, but if at any point you felt some excitement handling the clay, or found it even a bit hypnotic or interesting to watch it spin around, then I'd try to keep going for a while, maybe doing handbuilding if you find you enjoy that more, or - and this is not easy - reminding yourself that you're not actually in school there, that this is one space in life where there is zero actual competition - not for grades, not for jobs, not for anything else - and that it really is just a space to play with a new material and tools and make progress on your own schedule.
That said, I've never been good at putting aside the ingrained habit of seeing things competitively, so often I've done best with hobbies I do on my own. But there are downsides since that's a lot less social, and then there are hobbies, like pottery, where you really do need expensive equipment and guidance. So if you find, on reflection, that you would actually like to keep playing around with clay but that the class environment just isn't working for you, and you're not able to become a serene clay-tinkerer with eyes only for your own work, caring not a fig for others' - then I wonder if you could look around for one-on-one lessons with a teacher you feel good with, where you wouldn't need to measure yourself against anyone else.
Or quit. Or quit and pick it up again later. You're an adult, we're finally at a point where it's all allowed.
posted by trig at 7:17 PM on October 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
To answer your question directly…when I feel like I have gotten my money’s worth.
It is this internet stranger’s opinion that it may still be possible to get something of value out of this class if you adjust your expectations and approach. It’s common for adult recreational classes to level based on techniques covered rather than level of past experience. Moreover, it’s common for participants to repeat classes. I would make friendly conversation with your classmates— find out how long they’ve been doing this and if they have any pointers. In addition, it’s been my observation that some experienced artist types will still consider themselves beginners… whether this is due to sense of humility or self perception that they are far from being an expert… I can’t say. However, focus less on what your classmates are doing and more on the techniques / projects you want to work on. It’s clear that the instructor is a poor fit for you. So consider the three hours each week as “open studio” where you have full access to the necessary materials and tools, not a formal class.
posted by oceano at 8:52 PM on October 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
It is this internet stranger’s opinion that it may still be possible to get something of value out of this class if you adjust your expectations and approach. It’s common for adult recreational classes to level based on techniques covered rather than level of past experience. Moreover, it’s common for participants to repeat classes. I would make friendly conversation with your classmates— find out how long they’ve been doing this and if they have any pointers. In addition, it’s been my observation that some experienced artist types will still consider themselves beginners… whether this is due to sense of humility or self perception that they are far from being an expert… I can’t say. However, focus less on what your classmates are doing and more on the techniques / projects you want to work on. It’s clear that the instructor is a poor fit for you. So consider the three hours each week as “open studio” where you have full access to the necessary materials and tools, not a formal class.
posted by oceano at 8:52 PM on October 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
I just can't understand why *intellectually and physically* I don't know how to get the hang of centering
Just wanted to add, since you mentioned "physically": I don't know how common this is, but very very often when I need to learn some new skill with a physical element - even something stupid like how to aim in games like Angry Birds - I'll suck during the first session no matter how long it is, and then the next time I try I'll magically be some amount better than last time, but again I won't get much better during that session, and so on for the next few times. It's like my brain needs lots of downtime to process physical stuff, and progress in a given practice session plateaus very quickly. So I think it's fine you left the last class early, and if you end up deciding to go back and do want to make progress on the wheel, I'd try working on the wheel just part of the time - like, practice centering for just the last half hour or whatever - and spend the other time on other elements like handbuilding. (In this case that might also have the advantage of helping you stop comparing yourself to other people, since you'd not be practicing the same amount to begin with. But even without that, more downtime might help.)
posted by trig at 9:29 PM on October 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Just wanted to add, since you mentioned "physically": I don't know how common this is, but very very often when I need to learn some new skill with a physical element - even something stupid like how to aim in games like Angry Birds - I'll suck during the first session no matter how long it is, and then the next time I try I'll magically be some amount better than last time, but again I won't get much better during that session, and so on for the next few times. It's like my brain needs lots of downtime to process physical stuff, and progress in a given practice session plateaus very quickly. So I think it's fine you left the last class early, and if you end up deciding to go back and do want to make progress on the wheel, I'd try working on the wheel just part of the time - like, practice centering for just the last half hour or whatever - and spend the other time on other elements like handbuilding. (In this case that might also have the advantage of helping you stop comparing yourself to other people, since you'd not be practicing the same amount to begin with. But even without that, more downtime might help.)
posted by trig at 9:29 PM on October 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have taken MANY arts and crafts classes over the years and wheel throwing was the one medium that I achieved zero competency in. Totally unrewarding. Continue a class where you're a) enjoying yourself or b) learning something. Drop if neither.
posted by umwelt at 10:34 PM on October 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by umwelt at 10:34 PM on October 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
There is no need to depend on the instructor for all your information. Go out and get more: YouTube, books, articles, web forums / groups, pottery-specific sites, talking to potters in your area at craft shows. For now, to start, if you're not watching 20 "how to center" videos on YouTube, then you're leaving gold (and some dross) in the dirt.
Get a bunch of different approaches, distill what you can, see if any of them mention something you're doing that could be improved.
Then, when you go back to class, practice what _those_ resources taught you, and maybe the teacher or another student can give some kind of constructive feedback, or maybe not -- but at least you have a defined, paid for time and place to try things out! That's not trivial at all.
Use class time in a way that benefits you most, and get what you need by actively searching for it. Every learner is different, but, fortunately for you, there are now gazillions of different instructional approaches available to you.
Bonus: the very act of critically looking for the instruction and approach that works for you will itself help you learn.
posted by amtho at 2:31 AM on October 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
Get a bunch of different approaches, distill what you can, see if any of them mention something you're doing that could be improved.
Then, when you go back to class, practice what _those_ resources taught you, and maybe the teacher or another student can give some kind of constructive feedback, or maybe not -- but at least you have a defined, paid for time and place to try things out! That's not trivial at all.
Use class time in a way that benefits you most, and get what you need by actively searching for it. Every learner is different, but, fortunately for you, there are now gazillions of different instructional approaches available to you.
Bonus: the very act of critically looking for the instruction and approach that works for you will itself help you learn.
posted by amtho at 2:31 AM on October 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
It’s OK to quit if you want to! But maybe try something else like pinch pots or slab building in your pottery class first (I find coil building to be really hard, fwiw). I’d suggest giving it another few tries. Pottery is my main hobby now, but it took me at least 4 classes before I kept anything on the wheel. It’s hard!
Does the class have a TA? They are often able to work with you more closely, watching you and giving pointers as you go. If not, approach the instructor ahead of class and tell them you are thinking of quitting because you are frustrated. I’m sure they will take the opportunity to work with you specifically to help.
Also, do you have access to an open studio space sometime? I found that having other students give pointers - and giving you time to practice in a low key way - helped me out a lot. I spend a good chunk of my open studio Saturdays helping out new students - I remember all too well what it felt like to be a beginner.
posted by gemmy at 3:39 AM on October 8, 2023
Does the class have a TA? They are often able to work with you more closely, watching you and giving pointers as you go. If not, approach the instructor ahead of class and tell them you are thinking of quitting because you are frustrated. I’m sure they will take the opportunity to work with you specifically to help.
Also, do you have access to an open studio space sometime? I found that having other students give pointers - and giving you time to practice in a low key way - helped me out a lot. I spend a good chunk of my open studio Saturdays helping out new students - I remember all too well what it felt like to be a beginner.
posted by gemmy at 3:39 AM on October 8, 2023
1. If you want to quit right now, you can. I am a champion quitter and I think it’s saved me a lot of stress.
2. I once heard someone say that a large part of being good at languages is tolerating being very bad at a given language until you start to improve. I feel this is true for a lot of skills that have a long learning curve. One of the hardest things to tolerate, IMO, is doing something I suck at while others seem to be excelling. I once stuck with a painful dance class for the practice of sucking in public, lol.
It took me longer than 2 classes to get centering, but I was enjoying it even while I sucked. However, everyone in the class was at a pretty similar level to me. If I’d felt I was the only one struggling I’d have been miserable.
I dunno. Every challenge does not have to be met. Your time and energy are not boundless, and there’s no moral imperative to continue.
But 2 classes isn’t much time. I found it helpful to watch a lot of online tutorials - Tim See is good. My instructor was awesome but he’s a tall man with long limbs, and I’m a short woman with small hands and short arms. A lot of my issues were with making my body work with the wheel, and his ways of doing that weren’t applicable.
posted by bunderful at 7:06 AM on October 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
2. I once heard someone say that a large part of being good at languages is tolerating being very bad at a given language until you start to improve. I feel this is true for a lot of skills that have a long learning curve. One of the hardest things to tolerate, IMO, is doing something I suck at while others seem to be excelling. I once stuck with a painful dance class for the practice of sucking in public, lol.
It took me longer than 2 classes to get centering, but I was enjoying it even while I sucked. However, everyone in the class was at a pretty similar level to me. If I’d felt I was the only one struggling I’d have been miserable.
I dunno. Every challenge does not have to be met. Your time and energy are not boundless, and there’s no moral imperative to continue.
But 2 classes isn’t much time. I found it helpful to watch a lot of online tutorials - Tim See is good. My instructor was awesome but he’s a tall man with long limbs, and I’m a short woman with small hands and short arms. A lot of my issues were with making my body work with the wheel, and his ways of doing that weren’t applicable.
posted by bunderful at 7:06 AM on October 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's totally okay to quit! But since you paid for it, why not continue and just do handbuilding projects for the rest of this class? You might as well get some stuff you like out of it.
Your instructor sounds terrible and I have had similar not great instructors - and even with great instructors, it is helpful to take multiple classes because each of them will offer nuggets of wisdom and those each will help you along the way. Wheel throwing is very much one of those things where you are awful at it for quite a while and you get gradually better through a series of eureka moments. I have been doing ceramics for 10 years now and still struggle with so many aspects of it, including particularly centring the clay! It's ridiculous. Pottery is *hard*.
One of my eureka moments in wheel throwing came from watching a centring instruction video on YouTube where the demonstrator mentioned that when you're centring the clay and bracing your left arm against the side of the clay, your arm should make a straight line toward the centre of the wheel, or else your clay will not centre. The other important thing I learned, particularly as a beginner, is "Stop when it's a thing" - don't aim for perfect, aim for *something* so you can practice the rest of the steps in finishing a thrown piece, which are myriad and also not easy and all, of course, offer their own changes to ruin your thing.
posted by urbanlenny at 10:50 AM on October 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
Your instructor sounds terrible and I have had similar not great instructors - and even with great instructors, it is helpful to take multiple classes because each of them will offer nuggets of wisdom and those each will help you along the way. Wheel throwing is very much one of those things where you are awful at it for quite a while and you get gradually better through a series of eureka moments. I have been doing ceramics for 10 years now and still struggle with so many aspects of it, including particularly centring the clay! It's ridiculous. Pottery is *hard*.
One of my eureka moments in wheel throwing came from watching a centring instruction video on YouTube where the demonstrator mentioned that when you're centring the clay and bracing your left arm against the side of the clay, your arm should make a straight line toward the centre of the wheel, or else your clay will not centre. The other important thing I learned, particularly as a beginner, is "Stop when it's a thing" - don't aim for perfect, aim for *something* so you can practice the rest of the steps in finishing a thrown piece, which are myriad and also not easy and all, of course, offer their own changes to ruin your thing.
posted by urbanlenny at 10:50 AM on October 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
When do you typically decide to give up on a hobby/new skill that just isn't working out?
It depends how much I want/need the results.
The paradigm of stick-with-it-to-the-end may (maybe) be good for children because they need to learn frustration tolerance. As an adult you've already learned that, and you know how much frustration you're willing to put up with.
If I actually need a skill I will bang my head on it repeatedly over a course of years if necessary. That's where I welcome frustration into my life. If I don't really care that much, why bother?
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:11 PM on October 8, 2023
It depends how much I want/need the results.
The paradigm of stick-with-it-to-the-end may (maybe) be good for children because they need to learn frustration tolerance. As an adult you've already learned that, and you know how much frustration you're willing to put up with.
If I actually need a skill I will bang my head on it repeatedly over a course of years if necessary. That's where I welcome frustration into my life. If I don't really care that much, why bother?
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:11 PM on October 8, 2023
Good advice above! On figuring out a litmus test on when to give up, it's really about the thing that I want to be able to make. I can be pretty determined to finish a project or make something in particular, but also give myself the grace to take breaks and sometimes it takes years to finally finish that sweater or make a mug that I don't hate. Do you have any particular goals or things that you want to make? It might make it easier to see improvement with your own goals rather than what other people are doing in class. But if the thing that you're making doesn't matter then maybe you can find what you're looking for in the process of making a thing. Sometimes my goal was just to bring a friend to introduce them to clay and spend time with them. If you just wanted to feel relaxed and you're not feeling relaxed, and you've given it a good go, then it doesn't seem to be serving you and your needs.
Does your studio allow you to come in outside of class hours? I usually don't like dedicating time to a pottery class or a studio membership unless I can come in 2-3 times a week to practice and to look after pieces to see if they need trimming (thus the breaks, because life usually gets in the way).
I also just wanted to let you know that you're not alone -- wheel throwing is hard, and I have pretty low kinesthetic memory. So it took me a couple of series of classes, changing instructors and studios to feel like I made something that I liked. But I have also quit a few classes or stopped going to them when I was feeling overwhelmed or a mismatch with an instructor, and that's okay. You don't have to formally quit something, and you can always just take a break.
posted by sincerely yours at 1:38 PM on October 8, 2023
Does your studio allow you to come in outside of class hours? I usually don't like dedicating time to a pottery class or a studio membership unless I can come in 2-3 times a week to practice and to look after pieces to see if they need trimming (thus the breaks, because life usually gets in the way).
I also just wanted to let you know that you're not alone -- wheel throwing is hard, and I have pretty low kinesthetic memory. So it took me a couple of series of classes, changing instructors and studios to feel like I made something that I liked. But I have also quit a few classes or stopped going to them when I was feeling overwhelmed or a mismatch with an instructor, and that's okay. You don't have to formally quit something, and you can always just take a break.
posted by sincerely yours at 1:38 PM on October 8, 2023
Hey, I hear you, I was the worst person in my first wheel-throwing class, for the entire 6 weeks. It was especially bad because I thought throwing would be a fine motor control thing (which I usually pick up quickly) and it turned out to start with gross motor control things (which I do not).
Much frustration, why do I even bother going to this class, ugh I am a FAILURE.
That said, I want to encourage you to continue going for the whole period you signed up for. I got better. In the intervening mumblety-mumble years, I've thrown some things I REALLY like!
Elbow into hip, definitely. You're not using pure muscle power to center the clay; you're using the strength of your bones.
There was a short and slight potter at the studio where I took classes who threw these big jars, giant vessels to store olives in; she would back her stool and wheel up, set her pelvis against the wall, and basically use the building to center the clay.
Also, don't be afraid to start over. This blob not going well? Enh, try a different one. It's only clay.
posted by inexorably_forward at 1:58 PM on October 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
Much frustration, why do I even bother going to this class, ugh I am a FAILURE.
That said, I want to encourage you to continue going for the whole period you signed up for. I got better. In the intervening mumblety-mumble years, I've thrown some things I REALLY like!
Elbow into hip, definitely. You're not using pure muscle power to center the clay; you're using the strength of your bones.
There was a short and slight potter at the studio where I took classes who threw these big jars, giant vessels to store olives in; she would back her stool and wheel up, set her pelvis against the wall, and basically use the building to center the clay.
Also, don't be afraid to start over. This blob not going well? Enh, try a different one. It's only clay.
posted by inexorably_forward at 1:58 PM on October 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
My recommendation would be to stick out this course until you get to decoration. I am terrible at the wheel, meh on handbuilding, but I adore sgraffito, underglaze painting, press molds, and imprinting. I only handbuild so I have surfaces to decorate, and I should probably just team up with someone who loves throwing more than glazing.
And also, the suggestion to explore videos of different people working with clay is a great one, and what kept me interested early in my pottery path.
posted by MsMacbeth at 2:30 PM on October 8, 2023
And also, the suggestion to explore videos of different people working with clay is a great one, and what kept me interested early in my pottery path.
posted by MsMacbeth at 2:30 PM on October 8, 2023
Response by poster: Thank you for all the advice! I didn't take this class expecting to become particularly good at pottery, I just wanted to try something new. I'm not finding any pleasure in it so far, ok maybe briefly when we did handbuilding during the first class. But it's been wheel this, wheel that, etc. for the last few classes and (obviously) I hate it. I think if everyone was equally as bad on me on the wheel I probably wouldn't feel so frustrated. It sucks being the "loser" in the class, the only one who is failing (imo). Maybe I should go back next week and just do handbuilding, but being the only one to do a completely different activity feels embarrassing. I'm undecided about next week, but we'll se...
posted by VirginiaPlain at 2:57 PM on October 8, 2023
posted by VirginiaPlain at 2:57 PM on October 8, 2023
Hey, VirginiaPlain - I thought of you today! I went to a wonderful Grayson Perry exhibition (that's Turner Prize winning artist Grayson Perry...).
He's made a lot of unconventional pottery - that was part of what won him the Turner Prize - and I thought one of the info boards in the exhibition might lift your spirits. I photographed it, but I'll type it out here for ease of reading. Make sure you read to the very end!:
posted by penguin pie at 3:02 PM on October 8, 2023
He's made a lot of unconventional pottery - that was part of what won him the Turner Prize - and I thought one of the info boards in the exhibition might lift your spirits. I photographed it, but I'll type it out here for ease of reading. Make sure you read to the very end!:
In autumn 1983 [his sister] Christine, an experienced potter, invited Perry to attend an evening pottery class at an adult education centre. Eager to do the unexpected, he readily agreed. Raw, angry and amateurish, his pots and plates quickly won acclaim: He held his first solo exhibition in 1984. He acquired his own kiln in 1987 and only then did he leave his evening class.So - if you're desperate to learn to use a wheel, maybe keep trying or find another teacher. But don't let anyone make you feel that that's the only way to make great pottery!
In the early 1980s, pottery was often associated with a middle-class, feminine sensibility. It was an unusual, even radical, artform for an angry young artist to explore. For Perry, this was central to its appeal. His plates and pots offended pottery lovers, who objected to the crude, sexually explicit imagery, and upset contemporary art lovers, who objected to pottery. All his pots are made by the coiling technique, building the form up with one clay coil on another. He has never used a pottery wheel.
posted by penguin pie at 3:02 PM on October 8, 2023
I've been thinking about your ceramics journey since you posted last week and I have one suggestion that might work or might not. Instead of watching videos on techniques on instagram or youtube or whatever, maybe try and episode of two of the great pottery throw down? It's on HBO Max if you have that streaming service and what i love about it (besides just hours of watching people make cool ceramics) is that the contestants are all amateurs, really good ones, but they often make mistakes and make some bad looking pottery. It's a nice reminder that in ceramics even if you have years and years of experience, sometimes you just have a bad throwing day or make mistakes that result in things falling apart in the kiln. It's really the most out of control art form tbh and i find that ceramic artists that love it the most tend to embrace the complete lack of control you have once you put work in the kiln.
Also, if you really hate it, you don't have to force yourself to stick with it. I'm not the best potter but I just love working with the clay and getting messy, so I keep coming back to it in all forms over and over again. I love working on the wheel but don't have wheel access but I do have kiln access so I've been hand building. Hand building ceramics is its own area of expertise and no less important or impressive than wheel throwing. Just because it's not cool or trendy doesn't mean it's less.
posted by ruhroh at 4:35 PM on October 8, 2023
Also, if you really hate it, you don't have to force yourself to stick with it. I'm not the best potter but I just love working with the clay and getting messy, so I keep coming back to it in all forms over and over again. I love working on the wheel but don't have wheel access but I do have kiln access so I've been hand building. Hand building ceramics is its own area of expertise and no less important or impressive than wheel throwing. Just because it's not cool or trendy doesn't mean it's less.
posted by ruhroh at 4:35 PM on October 8, 2023
I'm seconding MsMacbeth, if you haven't gotten to decorate or glaze anything yet, please stick it out until that step! I tolerate wheel throwing, love handbuilding, love underglazing, grudgingly tolerate glazing, and experience a emotional rollercoaster not unlike Christmas morning when getting my finished pieces. I keep rolling the dice on weird unstable glazes, and that surprise factor is actually really motivational to me.
posted by 26thandfinal at 5:15 PM on October 8, 2023
posted by 26thandfinal at 5:15 PM on October 8, 2023
I'm another who really struggled with wheel throwing at first. It took me about 6 weeks to start figuring out centering and then another 12 to really make anything usable? It threw me for a loop that I can easily pop 150 pounds overhead when weight lifting, but couldn't get a 1.5lb lump of clay to center. Wheel throwing is incredibly difficult!! Now that I'm 3ish years in, I really am glad I kept at it because not only can I make useful and pretty things now (holy shit glazing and surface decorating is a deep hole you can go down!), but also because pottery has really taught me to enjoy the process and be more in the moment. This isn't to say that my first 18 weeks weren't incredibly frustrating because they were!
But having an incredibly zen instructor really helped me in the process. He really emphasized on the process of making clay and that it's really just playing with mud at the end of the day! There's always going to be another lump of clay to try again on and that learning how not to do something can be just as edifying as being able to do something.
Along the way too, I've come to see my ceramics time as one of the few moments I have in the week where I can constantly mess up without any consequences and also learn how to really pivot and roll when things inevitably go wrong with clay. While I can center consistently now, sometimes walls get chipped when I buffed too hard after applying terra sigilata or the most aesthetically pleasing pot goes flying off the wheel by accident when or the first 2 handles I tried to add to the mug didn't take and now the mug has weird dimples. But then the chip in the mug becomes a tea bag holder. The squished pot is intentionally squished some more to make a fun clover shape in the opening. And the little dimples on the mug get turned into googly eyes.
Stick with it until you see a pot all the way through the process. When the first lumpy pot comes out of the kiln, it's quite magical! Don't worry about centering perfectly. As long as it's not too wobbly, you can drop a hole and practice that and practice raising the walls!
posted by astapasta24 at 6:59 PM on October 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
But having an incredibly zen instructor really helped me in the process. He really emphasized on the process of making clay and that it's really just playing with mud at the end of the day! There's always going to be another lump of clay to try again on and that learning how not to do something can be just as edifying as being able to do something.
Along the way too, I've come to see my ceramics time as one of the few moments I have in the week where I can constantly mess up without any consequences and also learn how to really pivot and roll when things inevitably go wrong with clay. While I can center consistently now, sometimes walls get chipped when I buffed too hard after applying terra sigilata or the most aesthetically pleasing pot goes flying off the wheel by accident when or the first 2 handles I tried to add to the mug didn't take and now the mug has weird dimples. But then the chip in the mug becomes a tea bag holder. The squished pot is intentionally squished some more to make a fun clover shape in the opening. And the little dimples on the mug get turned into googly eyes.
Stick with it until you see a pot all the way through the process. When the first lumpy pot comes out of the kiln, it's quite magical! Don't worry about centering perfectly. As long as it's not too wobbly, you can drop a hole and practice that and practice raising the walls!
posted by astapasta24 at 6:59 PM on October 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
my experience:
* like you, I signed up for an evening beginner's pottery class for fun
* like you, I found it much harder and more annoying than I'd expected
* can't recall exactly how many times I came back, maybe 3. Enough that I got the hang of it and produced two bowls I was excited to fire and take home, to be functional as well as decorative
* the bowls I made were apparently nice enough after firing that someone else stole them both. I never got to take anything home. I stopped coming after that.
I guess it was a learning experience but not one I'd repeat.
If you stay long enough to make stuff you like, my advice is to find out exactly when your stuff will be coming out of the kiln, and be there for it so nobody jacks it.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:23 AM on October 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
* like you, I signed up for an evening beginner's pottery class for fun
* like you, I found it much harder and more annoying than I'd expected
* can't recall exactly how many times I came back, maybe 3. Enough that I got the hang of it and produced two bowls I was excited to fire and take home, to be functional as well as decorative
* the bowls I made were apparently nice enough after firing that someone else stole them both. I never got to take anything home. I stopped coming after that.
I guess it was a learning experience but not one I'd repeat.
If you stay long enough to make stuff you like, my advice is to find out exactly when your stuff will be coming out of the kiln, and be there for it so nobody jacks it.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:23 AM on October 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
I came here from your other pottery question and I so identify with your frustration at the wheel. F the wheel! Heh. Not really but I had a nearly identical experience when I took a beginner wheel class four years ago. I just couldn't get anything to happen. The others in the class were also beginners but most had had some experience with the wheel. The one guy who was as total of a beginner as me (didn't know thing 1 about the wheel) was throwing cups and bowls like a champ by week 4. I hated him. Also...I fffed up my back because I was so focused and tense trying to make something happen at the wheel. So, I took clay home and played around making a little platter (like 3x6) and rolling some lavender into it to make an impression. I think I had seen a few examples of this on Instagram. I made a little spoon. I had two horribly wonky bowls from the wheel portion of the class at that point. I brought them in and asked about doing some stuff by hand and the instructor and everyone was really supportive. Once I got working at my own stuff at a nearby table and engrossed in my work, it didn't matter what everyone was doing. Right away they showed me pinch pot technique and I have that little bowl sitting next to me right now on my desk. It really is so cute! And I put the spoon and platter on my wall. I don't know...they turned out darling and now that I've finally gone back to the pottery studio and taken a beginner handbuilding class and now spent all of this year so far on it, I really am having a great time and it's a wonderful outlet. I go to the same studio now and it is full of wheels! And there's a handful of us handbuilders that stick to our tables and we have so much fun! And sometimes the wheelthrowers come over and goggle at what we are making. I'm now almost at the stage where I want to take some of my handbuilt stuff over to the wheel for trimming and for shaping in different ways. Now that you have some ideas, just go in with confidence and say, "I'd like to make a couple pinch pots...can you give me a quick demonstration?" Your instructor will likely be very supportive and you may get a few people joining you! Be courageous! It's just mud!!
posted by amanda at 8:14 AM on October 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by amanda at 8:14 AM on October 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Czjewel at 10:34 AM on October 7, 2023 [1 favorite]