Is my hot tub full of varicella-zoster virus? Is it a big virus broth?

August 21, 2023 7:39 PM

A friend used my hot tub yesterday and today he has shingles. I can't find any information that clearly assures me I don't have a tub full of varicella-zoster virus, though I suspect that's not really a thing. Do you know?

I have some friends who live down the block. He's had a very sore back for a few days. On Sunday they asked if they could come soak in our hot tub for an hour and see if it helps his back. Sure. I wasn't feeling great that day so we didn't socialize, they used the hot tub for an hour or so, and then they left. We didn't use the hot tub last night or today.

Today they texted to let us know he has shingles. Ouch, sorry buddy! We've both had chicken pox as children so it should be fine anyways, but the love of MY life? He gets grossed out by stuff!

We shocked the hot tub using a non-chlorine oxidizer, and we are always responsible hot tub maintainers, so the chlorine levels and ph are in the right zones. The temperature is currently 102F. If this was a bacterial infection, I'da got it, but I don't know much about the secret lives of viruses. My googling led me to the statement "While the chlorine in swimming pools kills bacteria, it doesn’t kill viruses like the varicella-zoster virus." - it doesn't!?

The internet tells me that to kill varicella-zoster, you would need a ph below 6.2 or above 7.2. Average ph of our tap water here is 7.8 and we keep the hot tub between 7.8 and 7.2 normally, so to my art-degree-haven't-taken-a-science-since-I-was-teenaged understanding, the virus wouldn't be able to live in our water at any temperature.

And do viruses even like living in water? VZ virus is labelled as "labile" outside the body.

We're nearly due for a drain/clean/fill anyways, we'll just push it up so everyone feels better.

This is more of an academic question at this point, but it's made me realize I don't know the answer to "can viruses live in my hot tub?" and I would like to know!

posted by euphoria066 to Science & Nature (16 answers total)

I don't have the academic answer, but I wouldn't want to touch shingles with a 10 foot pole. I should probably get that vaccine, but it supposedly sucks worse than any COVID-vaccine after effects.

Drain the hot tub. Bleach it out. Change your filters etc.

Not worth the water/labor/filter costs to get shingles.
posted by Windopaene at 8:26 PM on August 21, 2023 [2 favorites]

According to this site, shingles is not contagious, it's a reactivation of the dormant virus (someone who had not had chicken pox could get chickenpox from someone who had shingles, although it sounds like it would be unlikely in this scenario).
posted by justkevin at 8:26 PM on August 21, 2023 [11 favorites]

I don't think you have anything to worry about, but I also don't think you will really be able to relax and enjoy your hot tub until you drain and refill it.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:47 PM on August 21, 2023 [10 favorites]

I was coming in to say "shingles isn't contagious," but I had extrapolated or misremembered the fact that I can't catch the virus from someone with active shingles...because I've already had chicken pox. Also, If I ever get shingles, it'll be because I had chicken pox as a kid, not because I was exposed to someone with shingles as an adult.

Anyway, if you haven't had chicken pox, or the chicken pox vaccine, you could catch chicken pox from your neighbor, not shingles. It wouldn't present as shingles (until possibly decades later, if ever).
posted by pullayup at 8:49 PM on August 21, 2023 [11 favorites]

I'd drain and refill just for paranoia/the psychological effect.

The vaccine did hit me harder than any of the Covid shots, but it was livable, and much less bad than the experiences of the many people I know who've had shingles. (You can't get it until you're 50, though, which is unfortunate, since I do know people who had shingles younger than 50.)
posted by LadyOscar at 9:54 PM on August 21, 2023 [3 favorites]

For what it’s worth, the shingles vaccine didn’t affect me too badly. Maybe like a mild reaction to a flu vaccine. Your experience obviously could be different. If you are over 50, get the vaccine.

On the hot tub issue, I would seek out a virologist for that answer, and, in the meantime, move up that cleaning for your peace of mind.
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:52 PM on August 21, 2023 [3 favorites]

SUSCEPTIBILITY TO DISINFECTANTS: Varicella-Zoster virus is easily inactivated by lipid solvents, detergents, and proteases. Although not much information is available on disinfectants specific for VZV, most herpes viruses are susceptible to 30% ethanol, 20% propanol, 200 ppm sodium hypochlorite, 0.12 % orthophenyl phenol, and 0.04% glutaraldehyde.

PHYSICAL INACTIVATION: It is a very fragile virus and can be easily inactivated by heating at 60oC, prolonged storage at a temperature of -70oC and above, extremes of pH (< 6.2 or >7.2), and ultrasonic disruption.

SURVIVAL OUTSIDE HOST: Labile outside host cell. It survives in the external environment for a few hours and occasionally for a day or two. (Source)
--
To be safest, wait to use the the hot tub until 48 hours has passed.
posted by oceano at 12:23 AM on August 22, 2023 [15 favorites]

Per oceano's information, If you can get your water temperature above 140°F (60°C) that would also do the trick. But I don't know how possible that is for most hot tubs; certainly you wouldn't want to take a soak in a tub at that temperature.
posted by Johnny Assay at 4:10 AM on August 22, 2023

Slight derail for a good cause:

EVERYONE, GET THE SHINGLES VACCINE AS SOON AS YOU QUALIFY!!

(I watched shingles eff up my 49 year old husband last year. Sooo much pain, lingering nerve issues.)
posted by pickles_have_souls at 7:33 AM on August 22, 2023 [6 favorites]

I did my two Shingles shots earlier this year - and had no reaction to speak of. I even cleared a weekend to recover from the 2nd shot...and nothing.

My wife is actually at the drugstore at this moment, getting her 2nd shot. Here's hoping her reaction is minimal...
posted by COD at 7:33 AM on August 22, 2023 [1 favorite]

As someone who has had both shingles (in my 30s) and my first shingles vaccine (recently), actual shingles is far worse, and I think my case was relatively mild. The vaccine side effects were on par with a COVID booster.
posted by O9scar at 9:25 AM on August 22, 2023 [1 favorite]

Another data point - I didn't stop them from giving me the 2nd shingles shot and the pneumonia vax at the same time and I felt BAD for two days. The first shot just made me really tired for an afternoon.
posted by 41swans at 10:24 AM on August 22, 2023

If you've had chickenpox already, re-exposure to the virus may actually decrease rather than increase your risk of shingles in the next few years: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/adult-exposure-to-chickenpox-linked-to-lower-risk-of-shingles-but-does-not-provide-full-protection#33%-lower-shingles-risk-in-the-first-2-years
posted by EmilyClimbs at 12:13 PM on August 22, 2023 [2 favorites]

We shocked the hot tub using a non-chlorine oxidizer

Well, non-chlorine oxidizers don't do shit for killing viruses. To be absolutely safe, I'd only get in the hot tub if you shocked it with chlorine. The few days it would take for the 10PPM to get down to safe soaking levels should be plenty of time to kill varicella and anything else.


And do viruses even like living in water? VZ virus is labelled as "labile" outside the body.

Some definitely do. Hepatitis, parvo, polio, meningitis to name a few. Chicken pox lives in water droplets, which is why it's spread by breathing, sneezing and coughing.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:19 PM on August 22, 2023

Also, if anyone here ever suspects they have shingles, get thee to an urgent care immediately. There are things they can prescribe to make it less horrible, and the sooner you get them, they more they can help.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 3:39 PM on August 22, 2023 [4 favorites]

You can't get it [the vaccine] until you're 50, though

You can with a prescription from a doctor. If you have a compromised immune system or are/will be taking a medication that can compromise your immune system, you can ask your doctor for a prescription.
posted by jet_pack_in_a_can at 5:00 PM on August 24, 2023 [1 favorite]