If I looking for boat
May 21, 2022 12:53 PM Subscribe
So I'm a single woman in her 50s and I am just now becoming interested in boats. I have no experience with boats, to the point where I don't even know if I like boats, having rarely even been on one. How should I go about seeing if boats are for me?
Also welcome are any other mid-life sudden interest stories, good and bad. Basically, I find myself interested in (thing) now, how should I navigate this interest without doing something stupid (ie buying a boat)
Also welcome are any other mid-life sudden interest stories, good and bad. Basically, I find myself interested in (thing) now, how should I navigate this interest without doing something stupid (ie buying a boat)
The orgs I know about are very locally based so a location will be useful.
posted by small_ruminant at 12:57 PM on May 21, 2022
posted by small_ruminant at 12:57 PM on May 21, 2022
Response by poster: I live on Whidbey Island in Washington state. Boats abound, but oddly enough none of my personal friends own anything larger than a kayak. I did try to take a sailing class one year but quit because the teacher was an asshole.
posted by The otter lady at 12:57 PM on May 21, 2022
posted by The otter lady at 12:57 PM on May 21, 2022
Take a class.
https://www.uspowerboating.com/about-us-powerboating/ is a nonprofit, and they are everywhere.
You are in a great place for boating.
posted by the Real Dan at 1:00 PM on May 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
https://www.uspowerboating.com/about-us-powerboating/ is a nonprofit, and they are everywhere.
You are in a great place for boating.
posted by the Real Dan at 1:00 PM on May 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
Boats are hideously expensive to maintain, and unless you can afford very high maintenance fees, you'll want to do as much of it as possible yourself.
posted by porpoise at 1:15 PM on May 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by porpoise at 1:15 PM on May 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
Definitely take some boat rides on different kinds of weather and water. I liked the idea of boats until I discovered, vividly and mere inches away from the upturned face of Rogelio, the innocent scuba instructor who was beckoning me to join him as he bobbed about in the pristine Costa Rican sea, that boats make me absolutely wretchedly, graphically, uncontrollably, explosively seasick.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 1:18 PM on May 21, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by nouvelle-personne at 1:18 PM on May 21, 2022 [5 favorites]
The first step is definitely just to spend time on a boat. Usually around water there are people who own charter boats that you can pay them to take you on a sightseeing tour. Or is there a ferry anywhere around. Maybe this is an opportunity for a road trip if you don't see any opportunities nearby. Try it & see if you like
posted by bleep at 1:19 PM on May 21, 2022
posted by bleep at 1:19 PM on May 21, 2022
You’re close to the Center for Wooden Boats, which offers all kinds of boaty activities and exhibits.
posted by HotToddy at 1:26 PM on May 21, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 1:26 PM on May 21, 2022 [9 favorites]
A friend of mine and I used to sail on Possession Sound from the Everett Marina. We took classes at Windworks down in Seattle. They have sailing cruises as well as classes and they are great people. Going to either marina and expressing sincere interest will likely result in an invitation aboard for a sail.
Having a friend with a boat, especially a sail boat, is infinitely better than owning a boat. Sailors often like and/or need (knowledgeable) help on board, so you will get all of the fun of sailing without the (considerable) headaches of ownership.
You definitely live in boat country, so it won't be hard to encounter the wide variety of boating opportunities in the Whidbey Island area.
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:37 PM on May 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
Having a friend with a boat, especially a sail boat, is infinitely better than owning a boat. Sailors often like and/or need (knowledgeable) help on board, so you will get all of the fun of sailing without the (considerable) headaches of ownership.
You definitely live in boat country, so it won't be hard to encounter the wide variety of boating opportunities in the Whidbey Island area.
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:37 PM on May 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
Yeah, are you thinking tiny boat that you trailer down to the dock and poke around, or big boat docked at a marina that holds lots of people and technology, or sailboat....
posted by zengargoyle at 1:45 PM on May 21, 2022
posted by zengargoyle at 1:45 PM on May 21, 2022
I was like you. One day when I was about your age I just got a notion that I wanted to sail. I did a sailing course and eventually fell in love with boats and sailing. Keeping a boat in a marina is for people with loads of money. A more affordable option is a trailer sailer. Something like this which is what I have. If your interest is in bigger boats, local sailing clubs are a good place to find boat owners who need crew.
posted by night_train at 1:54 PM on May 21, 2022
posted by night_train at 1:54 PM on May 21, 2022
I would also offer up that for those with more experience there’s a lake near me that offers a sort of time share/seasonal boat rental option. I think you pay $X for the season and then you get Y number of weeekend days and Z number of week days to use it
posted by raccoon409 at 2:01 PM on May 21, 2022
posted by raccoon409 at 2:01 PM on May 21, 2022
You might like kayaking or dinghy sailing, which are relatively small investments even if you decide to own your own. Bring competent to crew on a big boat is *totally* the way to go for most people afaict, including many ex-boat-owners.
Start with a club or a class in any kind of boating.
posted by clew at 2:23 PM on May 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
Start with a club or a class in any kind of boating.
posted by clew at 2:23 PM on May 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
I have a bunch of friends that are very into boats - sailing in particular - I think this answer depends on what you want to get out of boating and what kind of boating you want to do. As well as what kind of budget you're working with.
First, there's the age old axiom of "The two happiest days of being a boat owner are the day you buy it and the day you sell it."
There's also the old trope: "Boats are intentional holes in the water you throw money into."
Both of these axioms are painfully true.
So I went through a brief boat phase and did a bunch of homework and have some lived experience, and I can talk about how quickly any romantic misconceptions I had about living aboard my own boat solo were shattered. Thankfully.
I know just enough about sailing to be dangerous. Enough to read nav and tide current charts, plot a basic course and even handle a 20-30 sail boat on open water and take the tiller and lines, handle tacking and sail reefing and know my fetch from my reach, but definitely not enough to sail a boat off the dock and out of a harbor with or without power.
I went through a phase about wanting to like boats and the whole idea that you could live on one like an RV and have a mobile house, and maybe even get free propulsion from the wind instead of filling up the gas tank of an RV, and then I learned more about boats and then illicitly lived on a small 24 foot fiberglass hulled day cruiser that didn't really have a head or a galley and I quickly learned that boats sailboats in particular probably weren't for me and why they weren't for me.
So I'll list the things about boats and being a live-aboard that made me realize that boats probably weren't for me.
Cost part 1:
Even owning a small, modern sailboat in metal or fiberglass that's in good shape, even if inherited for free is expensive, even if you do all of the hard work of maintenance yourself.
Ocean going boats regularly need to have their hulls scraped and cleaned. Decks and hulls need painting. If the boat is too big to trailer to private land, it needs to be hauled out in a working boat harbor with boat cranes on a regular schedule and "put up on the hard" on land and refurbished. Prop shaft seal boxes need repacking, wood needs sanding or replacing and re-sealing, caulking needs cleaning out and replacing and so, so much more.
Hiring people to do this work is wildly expensive. Doing it yourself can be a full time hard labor job that can takes weeks or months depending on the work and the materials needed are also wildly expensive.
Everything involving boats costs more and has "boat tax", and I mean everything. Safety equipment, paints, lines and ropes, new sales, life preservers, boat-ready clothing. Or operating costs like taking on fuel, getting wastewater pumped out, or shore power on layovers. Even the laundry, coffee, food and other goods in services in a port tends to cost more.
Being on a boat means you also tend to buy more consumable supplies like bottled water, shelf stable food, batteries for radios and lights and more. It's like going car camping or RV camping but with extra steps and off-grid needs if you're actually touring around in a boat.
Coast Guard approved safety equipment is also expensive. There's a whole list of things you're supposed to have on board in sufficient quantities for each passenger even on smaller sailboats or power boats, depending on the class of boat and where it is.
Cost part 2:
Hidden costs and depreciation of everything you bring on board and use on a boat.
Basically everything you bring on board a boat whether it's clothing, bedding, a cell phone or laptop computer, a paper book, any tools or supplies, a bicycle - basically anything you would use or own on land - has a more limited life span and accelerating ticking clock.
If it is made of metal or has metal in it it's going to start rusting with a hurry. I remember the first night I stayed on this boat and put my bike up on the deck and lashed it to the mast. When I woke up the next morning basically all of the steel parts of my bike were covered in rust that wasn't there the night before. And within the first month even my stainless steel multitool was having issues.
Clothing and bedding will get either get directly wet due to exposure and weather - and/or directly absorb humidity and salt from the air. Salt and increased UV exposure will cause cloth, clothing and bedding to wear out and even rot in unexpected ways, and that includes things like marine grade fabrics used in a life vests or foams used in floatation vests or upholstery.
Electronics will fail and have issues. This is one reason why stuff like marine radios or electronic chart GPS units are so expensive, they do a lot of expensive things to marine electronics like conformal coatings and waterproof enclosures.
Basically everything you own from your shoes and clothes to your phone and USB charging cables are under direct attack from humidity and salt.
And everything on a boat will eventually get wet in a surprising number of ways. High weather, condensation, too much water in the bilge or keel and you drop your phone or camera or something at the wrong time, so many ways for things to get wet.
There are ways to mitigate these things like using dehumidifiers or constant cleaning and upkeep, but it's a whole thing.
And this is why constantly swabbing the deck, painting, polishing or cleaning something has basically always been a thing on naval or merchant boats or ships going back to the dawn of ocean going vessels.
If you keep polishing all the brass and metal, cleaning, caulking, painting the hull and deck and basically spending all of your free time on keeping things, ah, ship-shape then everything lasts longer and is less likely to fail when you need it.
Boat Movement:
Even in the shelter of a port harbor and moored to a dock the any boat - especially a compact, affordable boat that's not a megayacht and even then - is always, always moving.
Which sounds pleasant, at first. Romantic, really, like living in a big floating hammock.
I don't easily get sea sick but the constant motion is... acquired taste and can be exhausting just as its own mild thing even when the weather and sea is calm, whether or not you're firmly tied off to a dock in a harbor or moored out in natural open waters and shelters.
Roll over in berth a little too hard and a cup, candle or book left too close the edge might even fall over on you. Move around your boat and it's anything under like 40-50 feet and it moves with you. Someone else moving on the boat? You feel every part of that, too. Someone walks by on the dock? Boat moves. Someone shoves off and motors out of the harbor? Almost every boat in the harbor moves and feels it.
High winds and weather while docked in a harbor? Get ready to move a lot, especially if you have a sail boat due to "mast action" pushing the boat around like a bobbing cork or buoy. I was not at all prepared for this, and even in a sheltered harbor in high winds on a small to medium sized sailboat it can get so rough that you and objects with you can catch air and moments of microgravity or freefall and it's like trying to sleep or cook or read a book on a rollercoaster.
This is even more pronounced when moored at anchor or bouys in more open waters, or worse, sea-anchoring and station keeping in fully open waters. Even when the sea is glassy and calm the boat pivots around the anchorpoint with the bow upwinid in the softest breeze. (Which is also how you can lose anchor because of how anchors and chains work. It's not the hooks or spades anchor digging in that hold you fast, it's the length and weight of chain that actually keeps you in place and you kind of pivot around that or try to mitigate it with dual anchors/chains.)
And this is all when the boat is not even underway. Being underway is exponentially even more of all of that and if your cabin isn't lashed down it's going to end up in the bilge.
Shoot on small to medium sailboats when underway and set on a good fast, smooth tack you also have to move carefully or stay on the correct side of the boat so you don't upset the tack and heel, and the "correct" side depends on your sailing state and conditions!
If a boat is in the water it's moving, otherwise it's either run aground or not in the water.
And then when you go back on land everything feels weird and wrong.
Weather, temperature and exposures:
Being on a boat usually means being cold and/or wet, or at least damp. Even in mild tropical or subtropical climates local water temps don't often rise above 70F or so, and in Puget Sound it's more like 40-50F.
The walls and hulls and cabins or below decks of most boats are always cold and damp. The ocean water is a massive heat sink, so any exposed hull surfaces that aren't behind bulkheads or insulation are really quite cold and almost constantly damp from condensation and humidity.
On smaller boats you usually keep a big dirty towel around to wipe off the interior condensation, because it can get so bad it'll drip and rain on you from the combined humidity of breathing and ambient humidity.
High weather and rough seas aren't just unpleasant but an existential threat. A storm that would be mildly annoying on land can be an epic battle and struggle on a small to medium sailboat to the point that if you're solo and have no fellow crew to take turns on watch it means you don't get to sleep or relax for a second to keep your boat pointed into the waves and wind and not getting swamped broadsides or flooded.
This is why marine weather forecasts are a crucial part of boat safety. Even in the shelter of Puget sound it doesn't take much for a 20-40 MPH wind to turn into waves big enough to be a threat or problem that absolutely must be navigated and handled.
Also being in the water with a mast during any kind of electrical storm is absolutely terrifying. The admittedly small boat I briefly lived on only had a V berth, and the mast ran right through the foot of it. I only went through one thunderstorm in that cramped berth but I didn't sleep much that night.
Sun and wind exposure is also a major thing to deal with, even with casual day sailing.
When it's good it's really pleasant, but when it's bad it can be really unpleasant where you're getting blasted by cold spray, high winds and getting uncomfortably baked by the sun all at the same time. You can catch acute hypothermia with the spicy side dish of being severely sunburned and dehydrated.
Effort required:
Everything involved with being on a boat is also just more physical effort in general, even if you had a theoretical mythical indestructible boat that required no maintenance like hull scraping, painting or whatever.
Moving stuff on and off of a boat is just a lot more physical whether it's loading in groceries or hauling out laundry, even when you're in harbor and docked. In a harbor the only way to get stuff on and off the dock and boat is with hand carts and long walks down the maze of docking slips.
Doing resupplies or missions to land when not in harbor is even more work, like stuffing all of your laundry in dry bags, rowing or motoring to a shore on your dinghy or skiff or inflatable or whatever, timing it with the tides, hauling your landing craft in and out of the water, walking your stuff at impressive distances over an unimproved beach to go grocery shopping or laundry and so on.
I'm thinking about this whole extra effort part and trying to describe it creatively, and it's a lot like trying to live and camp in an RV that likes to roll over on its side like a giant puppy, and so you often have to kind of climb in out fromt the side door or windows to load things in and out, but you can also never quite pull the RV all the way into a service station or rest stop and the floor or ground around you is always lava, but you can't drive out of the lava because solid ground is even worse.
Basically everything takes at least a little more effort whether it's putting on your socks and shoes or making a simple peanut butter sandwich.
Crew:
I've noticed that whether with casual day sailing or living aboard doing it solo is rare.
Even casual day sailing any boat over two people usually has at least a crew of two just for safety's sake so can share time on the tiller and take turns on watch. Being on watch while underway is a specific required task and duty for all kinds of sailing, meaning that whoever is on watch is actually watching the sea for other vessels, obstacles, sea states, even if they're not on the tiller or piloting at the same time.
Being on watch is a constant thing that needs to happen when underway. Sure, people sailing solo can and do lash the tiller at safe, clear moments take breaks to go use the head or get food or water or even much, much longer periods by using autopilots or auto-tiller stuff, but they're still technically "on watch".
I've observed that even the people that do casual day sailing solo are made of pretty tough stuff. People who do live aboard or long term sailing solo are made of uncommonly tough stuff.
Hidden cost 3:
Losing everything. Running aground, capsizing, sinking, fire or abandoning ship.
Everything you put on the boat, including the boat and yourself and anyone on it, can be easily lost. You can get stuck out in a gale underway or at anchor and pushed to places you don't want to go and get beached. Rogue waves can swamp you.
Even experienced sailors can screw up and tack the wrong way in the wrong wind and blow out their sails, snap a mast, get knocked out by an errant boom strike to the noggin, have a failed engine or end up dealing with a boat fire and so many other calamities.
Rescuing a boat that's been beached but still seaworthy can be insanely expensive if you can't get the tide to float you out.
Dealing with salvage costs and fines from a sunk boat can also be another huge potential hidden cost.
There's also some interesting maritime laws about what happens with an officially abandoned ship. Like, people can salvage them and keep them or you have to buy the boat back through salvage costs kinds of laws.
All that being said? Boats are lots fun. There's a reason why they're popular. When it's good it can be really good.
I can suggest look around more at your local sailing clubs or harbors for classes and lessons focused on women or being women-led. I know those exist in my local harbors, and I know you can point to those harbors on a map!
It's not that difficult to start with little training skiffs and racers like Lasers, and can be a lot of fun if you don't mind getting dunked in the water. Owning a small trailer-able sailboat can be rewarding and relatively affordable, even solo.
posted by loquacious at 3:07 PM on May 21, 2022 [76 favorites]
First, there's the age old axiom of "The two happiest days of being a boat owner are the day you buy it and the day you sell it."
There's also the old trope: "Boats are intentional holes in the water you throw money into."
Both of these axioms are painfully true.
So I went through a brief boat phase and did a bunch of homework and have some lived experience, and I can talk about how quickly any romantic misconceptions I had about living aboard my own boat solo were shattered. Thankfully.
I know just enough about sailing to be dangerous. Enough to read nav and tide current charts, plot a basic course and even handle a 20-30 sail boat on open water and take the tiller and lines, handle tacking and sail reefing and know my fetch from my reach, but definitely not enough to sail a boat off the dock and out of a harbor with or without power.
I went through a phase about wanting to like boats and the whole idea that you could live on one like an RV and have a mobile house, and maybe even get free propulsion from the wind instead of filling up the gas tank of an RV, and then I learned more about boats and then illicitly lived on a small 24 foot fiberglass hulled day cruiser that didn't really have a head or a galley and I quickly learned that boats sailboats in particular probably weren't for me and why they weren't for me.
So I'll list the things about boats and being a live-aboard that made me realize that boats probably weren't for me.
Cost part 1:
Even owning a small, modern sailboat in metal or fiberglass that's in good shape, even if inherited for free is expensive, even if you do all of the hard work of maintenance yourself.
Ocean going boats regularly need to have their hulls scraped and cleaned. Decks and hulls need painting. If the boat is too big to trailer to private land, it needs to be hauled out in a working boat harbor with boat cranes on a regular schedule and "put up on the hard" on land and refurbished. Prop shaft seal boxes need repacking, wood needs sanding or replacing and re-sealing, caulking needs cleaning out and replacing and so, so much more.
Hiring people to do this work is wildly expensive. Doing it yourself can be a full time hard labor job that can takes weeks or months depending on the work and the materials needed are also wildly expensive.
Everything involving boats costs more and has "boat tax", and I mean everything. Safety equipment, paints, lines and ropes, new sales, life preservers, boat-ready clothing. Or operating costs like taking on fuel, getting wastewater pumped out, or shore power on layovers. Even the laundry, coffee, food and other goods in services in a port tends to cost more.
Being on a boat means you also tend to buy more consumable supplies like bottled water, shelf stable food, batteries for radios and lights and more. It's like going car camping or RV camping but with extra steps and off-grid needs if you're actually touring around in a boat.
Coast Guard approved safety equipment is also expensive. There's a whole list of things you're supposed to have on board in sufficient quantities for each passenger even on smaller sailboats or power boats, depending on the class of boat and where it is.
Cost part 2:
Hidden costs and depreciation of everything you bring on board and use on a boat.
Basically everything you bring on board a boat whether it's clothing, bedding, a cell phone or laptop computer, a paper book, any tools or supplies, a bicycle - basically anything you would use or own on land - has a more limited life span and accelerating ticking clock.
If it is made of metal or has metal in it it's going to start rusting with a hurry. I remember the first night I stayed on this boat and put my bike up on the deck and lashed it to the mast. When I woke up the next morning basically all of the steel parts of my bike were covered in rust that wasn't there the night before. And within the first month even my stainless steel multitool was having issues.
Clothing and bedding will get either get directly wet due to exposure and weather - and/or directly absorb humidity and salt from the air. Salt and increased UV exposure will cause cloth, clothing and bedding to wear out and even rot in unexpected ways, and that includes things like marine grade fabrics used in a life vests or foams used in floatation vests or upholstery.
Electronics will fail and have issues. This is one reason why stuff like marine radios or electronic chart GPS units are so expensive, they do a lot of expensive things to marine electronics like conformal coatings and waterproof enclosures.
Basically everything you own from your shoes and clothes to your phone and USB charging cables are under direct attack from humidity and salt.
And everything on a boat will eventually get wet in a surprising number of ways. High weather, condensation, too much water in the bilge or keel and you drop your phone or camera or something at the wrong time, so many ways for things to get wet.
There are ways to mitigate these things like using dehumidifiers or constant cleaning and upkeep, but it's a whole thing.
And this is why constantly swabbing the deck, painting, polishing or cleaning something has basically always been a thing on naval or merchant boats or ships going back to the dawn of ocean going vessels.
If you keep polishing all the brass and metal, cleaning, caulking, painting the hull and deck and basically spending all of your free time on keeping things, ah, ship-shape then everything lasts longer and is less likely to fail when you need it.
Boat Movement:
Even in the shelter of a port harbor and moored to a dock the any boat - especially a compact, affordable boat that's not a megayacht and even then - is always, always moving.
Which sounds pleasant, at first. Romantic, really, like living in a big floating hammock.
I don't easily get sea sick but the constant motion is... acquired taste and can be exhausting just as its own mild thing even when the weather and sea is calm, whether or not you're firmly tied off to a dock in a harbor or moored out in natural open waters and shelters.
Roll over in berth a little too hard and a cup, candle or book left too close the edge might even fall over on you. Move around your boat and it's anything under like 40-50 feet and it moves with you. Someone else moving on the boat? You feel every part of that, too. Someone walks by on the dock? Boat moves. Someone shoves off and motors out of the harbor? Almost every boat in the harbor moves and feels it.
High winds and weather while docked in a harbor? Get ready to move a lot, especially if you have a sail boat due to "mast action" pushing the boat around like a bobbing cork or buoy. I was not at all prepared for this, and even in a sheltered harbor in high winds on a small to medium sized sailboat it can get so rough that you and objects with you can catch air and moments of microgravity or freefall and it's like trying to sleep or cook or read a book on a rollercoaster.
This is even more pronounced when moored at anchor or bouys in more open waters, or worse, sea-anchoring and station keeping in fully open waters. Even when the sea is glassy and calm the boat pivots around the anchorpoint with the bow upwinid in the softest breeze. (Which is also how you can lose anchor because of how anchors and chains work. It's not the hooks or spades anchor digging in that hold you fast, it's the length and weight of chain that actually keeps you in place and you kind of pivot around that or try to mitigate it with dual anchors/chains.)
And this is all when the boat is not even underway. Being underway is exponentially even more of all of that and if your cabin isn't lashed down it's going to end up in the bilge.
Shoot on small to medium sailboats when underway and set on a good fast, smooth tack you also have to move carefully or stay on the correct side of the boat so you don't upset the tack and heel, and the "correct" side depends on your sailing state and conditions!
If a boat is in the water it's moving, otherwise it's either run aground or not in the water.
And then when you go back on land everything feels weird and wrong.
Weather, temperature and exposures:
Being on a boat usually means being cold and/or wet, or at least damp. Even in mild tropical or subtropical climates local water temps don't often rise above 70F or so, and in Puget Sound it's more like 40-50F.
The walls and hulls and cabins or below decks of most boats are always cold and damp. The ocean water is a massive heat sink, so any exposed hull surfaces that aren't behind bulkheads or insulation are really quite cold and almost constantly damp from condensation and humidity.
On smaller boats you usually keep a big dirty towel around to wipe off the interior condensation, because it can get so bad it'll drip and rain on you from the combined humidity of breathing and ambient humidity.
High weather and rough seas aren't just unpleasant but an existential threat. A storm that would be mildly annoying on land can be an epic battle and struggle on a small to medium sailboat to the point that if you're solo and have no fellow crew to take turns on watch it means you don't get to sleep or relax for a second to keep your boat pointed into the waves and wind and not getting swamped broadsides or flooded.
This is why marine weather forecasts are a crucial part of boat safety. Even in the shelter of Puget sound it doesn't take much for a 20-40 MPH wind to turn into waves big enough to be a threat or problem that absolutely must be navigated and handled.
Also being in the water with a mast during any kind of electrical storm is absolutely terrifying. The admittedly small boat I briefly lived on only had a V berth, and the mast ran right through the foot of it. I only went through one thunderstorm in that cramped berth but I didn't sleep much that night.
Sun and wind exposure is also a major thing to deal with, even with casual day sailing.
When it's good it's really pleasant, but when it's bad it can be really unpleasant where you're getting blasted by cold spray, high winds and getting uncomfortably baked by the sun all at the same time. You can catch acute hypothermia with the spicy side dish of being severely sunburned and dehydrated.
Effort required:
Everything involved with being on a boat is also just more physical effort in general, even if you had a theoretical mythical indestructible boat that required no maintenance like hull scraping, painting or whatever.
Moving stuff on and off of a boat is just a lot more physical whether it's loading in groceries or hauling out laundry, even when you're in harbor and docked. In a harbor the only way to get stuff on and off the dock and boat is with hand carts and long walks down the maze of docking slips.
Doing resupplies or missions to land when not in harbor is even more work, like stuffing all of your laundry in dry bags, rowing or motoring to a shore on your dinghy or skiff or inflatable or whatever, timing it with the tides, hauling your landing craft in and out of the water, walking your stuff at impressive distances over an unimproved beach to go grocery shopping or laundry and so on.
I'm thinking about this whole extra effort part and trying to describe it creatively, and it's a lot like trying to live and camp in an RV that likes to roll over on its side like a giant puppy, and so you often have to kind of climb in out fromt the side door or windows to load things in and out, but you can also never quite pull the RV all the way into a service station or rest stop and the floor or ground around you is always lava, but you can't drive out of the lava because solid ground is even worse.
Basically everything takes at least a little more effort whether it's putting on your socks and shoes or making a simple peanut butter sandwich.
Crew:
I've noticed that whether with casual day sailing or living aboard doing it solo is rare.
Even casual day sailing any boat over two people usually has at least a crew of two just for safety's sake so can share time on the tiller and take turns on watch. Being on watch while underway is a specific required task and duty for all kinds of sailing, meaning that whoever is on watch is actually watching the sea for other vessels, obstacles, sea states, even if they're not on the tiller or piloting at the same time.
Being on watch is a constant thing that needs to happen when underway. Sure, people sailing solo can and do lash the tiller at safe, clear moments take breaks to go use the head or get food or water or even much, much longer periods by using autopilots or auto-tiller stuff, but they're still technically "on watch".
I've observed that even the people that do casual day sailing solo are made of pretty tough stuff. People who do live aboard or long term sailing solo are made of uncommonly tough stuff.
Hidden cost 3:
Losing everything. Running aground, capsizing, sinking, fire or abandoning ship.
Everything you put on the boat, including the boat and yourself and anyone on it, can be easily lost. You can get stuck out in a gale underway or at anchor and pushed to places you don't want to go and get beached. Rogue waves can swamp you.
Even experienced sailors can screw up and tack the wrong way in the wrong wind and blow out their sails, snap a mast, get knocked out by an errant boom strike to the noggin, have a failed engine or end up dealing with a boat fire and so many other calamities.
Rescuing a boat that's been beached but still seaworthy can be insanely expensive if you can't get the tide to float you out.
Dealing with salvage costs and fines from a sunk boat can also be another huge potential hidden cost.
There's also some interesting maritime laws about what happens with an officially abandoned ship. Like, people can salvage them and keep them or you have to buy the boat back through salvage costs kinds of laws.
All that being said? Boats are lots fun. There's a reason why they're popular. When it's good it can be really good.
I can suggest look around more at your local sailing clubs or harbors for classes and lessons focused on women or being women-led. I know those exist in my local harbors, and I know you can point to those harbors on a map!
It's not that difficult to start with little training skiffs and racers like Lasers, and can be a lot of fun if you don't mind getting dunked in the water. Owning a small trailer-able sailboat can be rewarding and relatively affordable, even solo.
posted by loquacious at 3:07 PM on May 21, 2022 [76 favorites]
Oh, and not to abuse the edit window, I forgot another major facet I didn't like about living aboard.
Boats are generally cramped and tiny inside, and any boat large enough to stand fully upright inside and/or spread your arms fully or sleep in a relatively normal sized and shape bed - much less anything that has even one fully enclosed cabin bedroom or berth - is a fairly large and expensive sailboat and generally in the size that can't be easily put on a trailer and hauled around overland without wide/heavy moving services.
On something relatively affordable like a super basic 20-30' or so day cruiser sail boat that generally means you can't stand fully upright inside without opening the cockpit doors up and having your head and shoulders outside, and in a lot of cases you're lucky if you can even stand in the galley or main space without pressing your head and shoulders to the ceiling.
Unless you can afford a bigger boat if you want to be or operate below decks you're basically always crouching and avoiding awkward parts of the interior of the boat.
Since boat hulls generally aren't even remotely square there's a lot of "wasted" or unavailable space behind bulkheads and fittings, even though this space is often available and utilized for soft stuff, like stuffing a bunch of life vests or wetsuits or something in there, or dry bags full of laundry or other soft things.
Everything is rather awkwardly shaped, and if you don't like the shape, height or comfort levels of, say, a galley seat and table, the size or contour of a berth or bunk or even the cabinets in the galley there's not a whole lot you can do about it without rebuilding that fitted furniture or modifying it.
You can't just go buy a new bed or more comfy normal sized chair or dining room table or whatever to replace it because there's no place to put it.
Even when I've been hammock camping or backpacking with no furniture besides a hammock I felt more generally comfortable and had way more room to be comfortable in than I did on that small day sailing boat and felt like I had more seating and sleeping options.
When I was living aboard that boat with all of the stuff in my last comment it was driving me crazy that also couldn't ever really fully stretch out, sit comfortably or even fully extend my arms.
Even sleeping or laying down in the small v-berth under the bow was weird and awkward. On paper or by sight it looks like it would be big enough in area until I'd lay down, and between the curved (and very cold!) parts of the hull I'd still have to have my feet and half of my shins sticking out off the birth, and then my choices of leg and foot position was to choose to have them wedged together between the mast and the cabinet bulkheads on either side, or with my legs spread around the mast. And if I'd forget and try to roll over in my sleep I'd end up kicking the mast or bulkhead from either position.
It's a lot like trying to sleep on some kind of artistically curved post modern couch. It looks cool but good luck taking a nap on it with that shape and chrome bits sticking out of it.
posted by loquacious at 3:32 PM on May 21, 2022 [17 favorites]
Boats are generally cramped and tiny inside, and any boat large enough to stand fully upright inside and/or spread your arms fully or sleep in a relatively normal sized and shape bed - much less anything that has even one fully enclosed cabin bedroom or berth - is a fairly large and expensive sailboat and generally in the size that can't be easily put on a trailer and hauled around overland without wide/heavy moving services.
On something relatively affordable like a super basic 20-30' or so day cruiser sail boat that generally means you can't stand fully upright inside without opening the cockpit doors up and having your head and shoulders outside, and in a lot of cases you're lucky if you can even stand in the galley or main space without pressing your head and shoulders to the ceiling.
Unless you can afford a bigger boat if you want to be or operate below decks you're basically always crouching and avoiding awkward parts of the interior of the boat.
Since boat hulls generally aren't even remotely square there's a lot of "wasted" or unavailable space behind bulkheads and fittings, even though this space is often available and utilized for soft stuff, like stuffing a bunch of life vests or wetsuits or something in there, or dry bags full of laundry or other soft things.
Everything is rather awkwardly shaped, and if you don't like the shape, height or comfort levels of, say, a galley seat and table, the size or contour of a berth or bunk or even the cabinets in the galley there's not a whole lot you can do about it without rebuilding that fitted furniture or modifying it.
You can't just go buy a new bed or more comfy normal sized chair or dining room table or whatever to replace it because there's no place to put it.
Even when I've been hammock camping or backpacking with no furniture besides a hammock I felt more generally comfortable and had way more room to be comfortable in than I did on that small day sailing boat and felt like I had more seating and sleeping options.
When I was living aboard that boat with all of the stuff in my last comment it was driving me crazy that also couldn't ever really fully stretch out, sit comfortably or even fully extend my arms.
Even sleeping or laying down in the small v-berth under the bow was weird and awkward. On paper or by sight it looks like it would be big enough in area until I'd lay down, and between the curved (and very cold!) parts of the hull I'd still have to have my feet and half of my shins sticking out off the birth, and then my choices of leg and foot position was to choose to have them wedged together between the mast and the cabinet bulkheads on either side, or with my legs spread around the mast. And if I'd forget and try to roll over in my sleep I'd end up kicking the mast or bulkhead from either position.
It's a lot like trying to sleep on some kind of artistically curved post modern couch. It looks cool but good luck taking a nap on it with that shape and chrome bits sticking out of it.
posted by loquacious at 3:32 PM on May 21, 2022 [17 favorites]
BOAT = Break Out Another Thousand
posted by Windopaene at 4:19 PM on May 21, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Windopaene at 4:19 PM on May 21, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'd highly recommend starting by trying (not buying) small boats: rowboats, kayaks, sailing dingies. The South Whidbey Yacht Club (https://swyachtclub.org/) seems like it might be a place for that. If you find yourself saying "I'd like to spend the night on this thing" or "I wish I could take that longer trip," then you can start getting involved in bigger boats!
posted by thandal at 4:25 PM on May 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by thandal at 4:25 PM on May 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
Hey loquacious, I've been reading a lot of books about sailing and I really love the thought of it, but I've tailed off on the idea of actually doing it. And while reading your post I am very much glad I'm sticking to the books.
posted by patternocker at 5:52 PM on May 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by patternocker at 5:52 PM on May 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
I just asked my aunt, who used to own a sailboat on South Whidbey, and she suggested checking out the South Whidbey Yacht Club. They apparently have classes and so on, and I'll bet they'd be able to get you on a boat without too much trouble.
Also there are public boat launches all over the place on Whidbey, if you are more of a book and DIY person. For dinghys, rowboats, or sometimes small speedboats, Deer Lake has a public boat launch, and is small, wave-free, and reasonably chill.
(Also, Also, just want to commiserate on the mid-life boating interest. I decided I wanted to learn to kayak, and then I decided that a good first step would be to build a kayak, and now I'm halfway through building a cedar-strip sea kayak. I've still never kayaked, but I guess I'm committed now. Anyway, this makes the most sense to me. Give in to mid life eccentricity!)
posted by surlyben at 8:38 PM on May 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Also there are public boat launches all over the place on Whidbey, if you are more of a book and DIY person. For dinghys, rowboats, or sometimes small speedboats, Deer Lake has a public boat launch, and is small, wave-free, and reasonably chill.
(Also, Also, just want to commiserate on the mid-life boating interest. I decided I wanted to learn to kayak, and then I decided that a good first step would be to build a kayak, and now I'm halfway through building a cedar-strip sea kayak. I've still never kayaked, but I guess I'm committed now. Anyway, this makes the most sense to me. Give in to mid life eccentricity!)
posted by surlyben at 8:38 PM on May 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Boats abound, but oddly enough none of my personal friends own anything larger than a kayak.
Those are the people who have it figured out. ;)
Hello from Anacortes! For a while, I had a 12' aluminum skiff with an outboard, then a 21' fiberglass inboard/outboard (both of these were stored at home and trailered in/out every time), then no boat, and finally a pair of kayaks. Each had its pros and cons, but overall I am truly happiest with the kayaks. I guess the bottom line for me is that I wanted boating to be fun and relaxing, but with the larger boats, all the post-trip maintenance, trailer maintenance, boat launch and parking fees, etc. added up to where eventually I just lost interest because it all felt like so much. I went a few years with no boat at all, and eventually got the itch to get back on the water, and fell in love with kayaking. I'm a short guy in my 40s, and with a little help from a stepstool I can easily put my kayak on and off my Kia Sportage for a solo trip. I wound up getting a second one so that I can invite a friend. I do make a point to hose off the car once I get home and get the boat off, just to get rid of any seawater drips, but that's about it. I get home, put the kayak away, and I'm done. And I have had so much more fun paddling around, exploring little nooks and crannies, and sometimes just drifting, than I ever had in the bigger boats.
posted by xedrik at 9:09 AM on May 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
Those are the people who have it figured out. ;)
Hello from Anacortes! For a while, I had a 12' aluminum skiff with an outboard, then a 21' fiberglass inboard/outboard (both of these were stored at home and trailered in/out every time), then no boat, and finally a pair of kayaks. Each had its pros and cons, but overall I am truly happiest with the kayaks. I guess the bottom line for me is that I wanted boating to be fun and relaxing, but with the larger boats, all the post-trip maintenance, trailer maintenance, boat launch and parking fees, etc. added up to where eventually I just lost interest because it all felt like so much. I went a few years with no boat at all, and eventually got the itch to get back on the water, and fell in love with kayaking. I'm a short guy in my 40s, and with a little help from a stepstool I can easily put my kayak on and off my Kia Sportage for a solo trip. I wound up getting a second one so that I can invite a friend. I do make a point to hose off the car once I get home and get the boat off, just to get rid of any seawater drips, but that's about it. I get home, put the kayak away, and I'm done. And I have had so much more fun paddling around, exploring little nooks and crannies, and sometimes just drifting, than I ever had in the bigger boats.
posted by xedrik at 9:09 AM on May 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
Also, on review: My apologies for the large number of weird typos in my comments.
And I hope I haven't crushed anyone's dreams about sailing or boating in general. Sailing is a lot of fun. It's like flying a kite except you get to go places with it. It's a whole lot of fun.
But the positives and desirable parts of sailing and boating are self evident, and I wanted to share some of the negatives involved that aren't generally talked about, especially from the outsider or beginner perspectives. Experienced sailors and boat people tend to not talk about these things and kind of just shrug and say "Duh, you're on a boat you landlubber!"
And knowing something about boats and sailing is a really cool and fun skill to have. Some of my friends have ratings/licenses and can handle larger sailboats and powered yachts and make some side money getting paid moving boats around or operating as captain or pilot for people who own boats who basically hire them to do the piloting while they hang out, relax and party.
Learning about sailing and the details and basics about seafaring are also useful as a general safety thing even if you're just riding a ferry or a cruise ship. You can learn a lot of useful stuff like what to do when a boat capsizes or has issues, how to deploy and board a life raft, how to self rescue, how, why and when to use signal flares and other safety equipment.
I also agree with the more accessible and affordable fun of kayaking.
Something else I want to share about casual kayaking on Puget Sound in particular is that while it's relatively safe in sheltered waters and staying closer to shore is that the Puget Sound waters can be deceptively dangerous especially when doing open water kayaking and island crossings in the area.
I grew up on the Pacific Coast surfing and swimming and going deep sea fishing with my dad and his surfer-fisher buddies so I had a head start on "reading" the ocean and sea states and recognizing swell and current directions in places with much, much larger swells and waves, and at first I didn't really understand how complicated and deceptively dangerous the relatively calm and flat Puget Sound could be until I started studying and reading about the concept of "prevailing tide currents" and that tidal states and flows were such a big deal around here.
One of the really subtle things I've learned and practiced about reading the sea states of Puget Sound is looking for tidal sheer lines in the open water. There's places where currents converge or clash and standing waves form that can be difficult to cross or navigate in small craft that can totally swamp you and catch you off guard if you don't approach and traverse them the right way.
There are a number of publications and books about this that are dedicated entirely to the concept of mapping prevailing tidal currents that are a separate and independent thing from navigation charts and maps, and you use these prevailing current charts as guides alongside nav charts along with tidal projections and states when mapping and planning navigation routes especially for sail powered or human powered craft small or large, so you don't plan a route that looks fine on the nav charts but end up getting pushed around to undersea hazards and snags by the currents.
This prevailing tide current charts for Puget Sound in particular are totally wild and fascinating. The whole Sound is looks like a giant tangled bowl of noodles all swirling around each other and they shift and change hour by hour over the tidal variations, all day, every day.
And of course these tidal current charts aren't an exact thing but just estimates, so you use them to give anything that might be a hazard a super wide berth just to be safe since the wind and sailing or sea state can all change independently of each other, because if you get too close to a hazard you can lose the favorable wind you were planning on using to tack or jibe around the hazard and get pushed right into it by the tidal currents.
And losing favorable winds is something I've experienced with my relatively limited experience sailing and it's totally weird and even kind of terrifying.
One of the first times I took the lines and tiller on a friends boat we were just casually cruising around and I was trying to jibe and come about to head back the other way, and even though my friend knew and warned me that we were heading towards this calm spot he let me go for it and learn from experience. The wind went from a calm and favorable one that was really easy sailing to nothing at all due to the local coastal geography blocking the wind and suddenly we were in a pocket of doldrums and drifting towards a local dock and some moored boats in the area, and we ended up having to slack the sails, drop the outboard and motor back out into the favorable wind.
Anyway, these tidal currents mean that even for casual coastal kayaking you should at least be somewhat aware of the tidal states and flows and which way the water is flowing under you.
If you don't pay heed to these and you're not a strong paddler it's pretty easy to get pulled out to sea and open waters as some tidal currents are moving much faster than you can paddle, and if you get pulled out past a geographical point or barrier things can get wild in a hurry and you can end up a long ways from where you entered the water.
But if you are aware of these tidal flows and prevailing currents you can use them to your advantage for crossing Puget Sound and island hopping with much less effort. Like if you time your entry and exits right with a sea kayak you can practically get free rides all over Puget Sound.
This is something that the indigenous First Nations people know or knew and used to their advantage for travel and trade around the area and it's fascinating and super cool. They've been doing this for centuries and it's how they were able to paddle (pull) long boats, canoes and kayaks all over Puget Sound between the various lands and settlements with relatively low effort.
Anyway, one of my casual mid-life interests is trying to figure out how to combine bike touring and sea kayak touring into each other along with the concept of an ebike with off grid solar panel support. It would be super cool to be able to haul some kind of folding or inflatable kayak or something around with an ebike and then use the same ebike batteries to power an electric and human powered kayak and be able to do overland travel and sea travel into the same setup and camping gear.
One of the really cool things about open sea kayak touring in Puget Sound is that many of the coastal state parks have beach campgrounds that are only available if you arrive via human powered or - I think - small sail powered craft. Like you can legally camp on more remote beaches and set up camp in places that you can't if you arrive at the state park either by car, bike or foot. They're like the "hiker biker" campgrounds but specifically set aside for kayak tours.
That being said, this random idea isn't really feasible for either my fitness or income levels. Good folding or inflatable sea worthy kayaks are alarmingly expensive. But I sure like the idea, and it's a fun concept to kick around. The tech around all of the moving parts is also rapidly evolving, too. People are starting to do solar power supported ebike tours. Kayaks with electric motors are also rapidly becoming a thing and developed technology.
Now if I could just get a folding or inflatable sea-going kayak that fits in the space and weight of, say, a large winter sleeping bag (hah) or an ebike that similarly breaks down into a package small enough to lash to a kayak (haha) and maybe some new and improved battery and solar technology and higher energy densities (hahahaha) I'd be most of the way there.
posted by loquacious at 12:11 PM on May 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
And I hope I haven't crushed anyone's dreams about sailing or boating in general. Sailing is a lot of fun. It's like flying a kite except you get to go places with it. It's a whole lot of fun.
But the positives and desirable parts of sailing and boating are self evident, and I wanted to share some of the negatives involved that aren't generally talked about, especially from the outsider or beginner perspectives. Experienced sailors and boat people tend to not talk about these things and kind of just shrug and say "Duh, you're on a boat you landlubber!"
And knowing something about boats and sailing is a really cool and fun skill to have. Some of my friends have ratings/licenses and can handle larger sailboats and powered yachts and make some side money getting paid moving boats around or operating as captain or pilot for people who own boats who basically hire them to do the piloting while they hang out, relax and party.
Learning about sailing and the details and basics about seafaring are also useful as a general safety thing even if you're just riding a ferry or a cruise ship. You can learn a lot of useful stuff like what to do when a boat capsizes or has issues, how to deploy and board a life raft, how to self rescue, how, why and when to use signal flares and other safety equipment.
I also agree with the more accessible and affordable fun of kayaking.
Something else I want to share about casual kayaking on Puget Sound in particular is that while it's relatively safe in sheltered waters and staying closer to shore is that the Puget Sound waters can be deceptively dangerous especially when doing open water kayaking and island crossings in the area.
I grew up on the Pacific Coast surfing and swimming and going deep sea fishing with my dad and his surfer-fisher buddies so I had a head start on "reading" the ocean and sea states and recognizing swell and current directions in places with much, much larger swells and waves, and at first I didn't really understand how complicated and deceptively dangerous the relatively calm and flat Puget Sound could be until I started studying and reading about the concept of "prevailing tide currents" and that tidal states and flows were such a big deal around here.
One of the really subtle things I've learned and practiced about reading the sea states of Puget Sound is looking for tidal sheer lines in the open water. There's places where currents converge or clash and standing waves form that can be difficult to cross or navigate in small craft that can totally swamp you and catch you off guard if you don't approach and traverse them the right way.
There are a number of publications and books about this that are dedicated entirely to the concept of mapping prevailing tidal currents that are a separate and independent thing from navigation charts and maps, and you use these prevailing current charts as guides alongside nav charts along with tidal projections and states when mapping and planning navigation routes especially for sail powered or human powered craft small or large, so you don't plan a route that looks fine on the nav charts but end up getting pushed around to undersea hazards and snags by the currents.
This prevailing tide current charts for Puget Sound in particular are totally wild and fascinating. The whole Sound is looks like a giant tangled bowl of noodles all swirling around each other and they shift and change hour by hour over the tidal variations, all day, every day.
And of course these tidal current charts aren't an exact thing but just estimates, so you use them to give anything that might be a hazard a super wide berth just to be safe since the wind and sailing or sea state can all change independently of each other, because if you get too close to a hazard you can lose the favorable wind you were planning on using to tack or jibe around the hazard and get pushed right into it by the tidal currents.
And losing favorable winds is something I've experienced with my relatively limited experience sailing and it's totally weird and even kind of terrifying.
One of the first times I took the lines and tiller on a friends boat we were just casually cruising around and I was trying to jibe and come about to head back the other way, and even though my friend knew and warned me that we were heading towards this calm spot he let me go for it and learn from experience. The wind went from a calm and favorable one that was really easy sailing to nothing at all due to the local coastal geography blocking the wind and suddenly we were in a pocket of doldrums and drifting towards a local dock and some moored boats in the area, and we ended up having to slack the sails, drop the outboard and motor back out into the favorable wind.
Anyway, these tidal currents mean that even for casual coastal kayaking you should at least be somewhat aware of the tidal states and flows and which way the water is flowing under you.
If you don't pay heed to these and you're not a strong paddler it's pretty easy to get pulled out to sea and open waters as some tidal currents are moving much faster than you can paddle, and if you get pulled out past a geographical point or barrier things can get wild in a hurry and you can end up a long ways from where you entered the water.
But if you are aware of these tidal flows and prevailing currents you can use them to your advantage for crossing Puget Sound and island hopping with much less effort. Like if you time your entry and exits right with a sea kayak you can practically get free rides all over Puget Sound.
This is something that the indigenous First Nations people know or knew and used to their advantage for travel and trade around the area and it's fascinating and super cool. They've been doing this for centuries and it's how they were able to paddle (pull) long boats, canoes and kayaks all over Puget Sound between the various lands and settlements with relatively low effort.
Anyway, one of my casual mid-life interests is trying to figure out how to combine bike touring and sea kayak touring into each other along with the concept of an ebike with off grid solar panel support. It would be super cool to be able to haul some kind of folding or inflatable kayak or something around with an ebike and then use the same ebike batteries to power an electric and human powered kayak and be able to do overland travel and sea travel into the same setup and camping gear.
One of the really cool things about open sea kayak touring in Puget Sound is that many of the coastal state parks have beach campgrounds that are only available if you arrive via human powered or - I think - small sail powered craft. Like you can legally camp on more remote beaches and set up camp in places that you can't if you arrive at the state park either by car, bike or foot. They're like the "hiker biker" campgrounds but specifically set aside for kayak tours.
That being said, this random idea isn't really feasible for either my fitness or income levels. Good folding or inflatable sea worthy kayaks are alarmingly expensive. But I sure like the idea, and it's a fun concept to kick around. The tech around all of the moving parts is also rapidly evolving, too. People are starting to do solar power supported ebike tours. Kayaks with electric motors are also rapidly becoming a thing and developed technology.
Now if I could just get a folding or inflatable sea-going kayak that fits in the space and weight of, say, a large winter sleeping bag (hah) or an ebike that similarly breaks down into a package small enough to lash to a kayak (haha) and maybe some new and improved battery and solar technology and higher energy densities (hahahaha) I'd be most of the way there.
posted by loquacious at 12:11 PM on May 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by potrzebie at 12:54 PM on May 21, 2022 [1 favorite]