I feel ambivalent about this question...
July 22, 2021 3:52 PM Subscribe
How do you use the word "ambivalent"?
I recently learned that the correct definition of "ambivalent" is to have opposing or conflicting feelings at the same time, rather than not caring much either way (which is the only way I've ever heard people use it).
Now I am very curious whether this is a regional thing (I live in the Canadian prairies) or whether this is just one of the most misused words ever??
Please tell me how you and those around you use the word "ambivalent" and what region of the world you live in, so I can satisfy my curiosity!
I recently learned that the correct definition of "ambivalent" is to have opposing or conflicting feelings at the same time, rather than not caring much either way (which is the only way I've ever heard people use it).
Now I am very curious whether this is a regional thing (I live in the Canadian prairies) or whether this is just one of the most misused words ever??
Please tell me how you and those around you use the word "ambivalent" and what region of the world you live in, so I can satisfy my curiosity!
That's interesting, I have not heard this word misused in the particular way that you describe (NOT CARING either way, rather than the 'correct' meaning of unable to choose between two options).
I don't mean it as a totalitarian statement? Maybe there have been cases when I've seen "ambivalent" used to mean the same thing as "apathetic"/"agnostic"/"noncommittal" but certainly not enough times that I've noticed that as a common form of misuse.
(As opposed to, say, people misusing the word "enormity" to mean "bigness" rather than its traditional meaning of "wickedness"... this misuse has obviously happened so often that every dictionary now recognizes this new meaning, and I had to surrender my bitterness and accept that battle as lost the year I turned 16.)
My linguistic map: Childhood and young adulthood spent in former British colonies in South Asia & South-East Asia; most of my adulthood spent in the east coast of USA; voracious reader across genres and of authors from all around the world all my life (fiction, nonfiction, academic writing, whatever); professional writer for 12+ years who is very attuned to word misuse because of how personally offended I feel when that happens. (I know it's not a good thing, I'm working on it.)
posted by MiraK at 4:00 PM on July 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
I don't mean it as a totalitarian statement? Maybe there have been cases when I've seen "ambivalent" used to mean the same thing as "apathetic"/"agnostic"/"noncommittal" but certainly not enough times that I've noticed that as a common form of misuse.
(As opposed to, say, people misusing the word "enormity" to mean "bigness" rather than its traditional meaning of "wickedness"... this misuse has obviously happened so often that every dictionary now recognizes this new meaning, and I had to surrender my bitterness and accept that battle as lost the year I turned 16.)
My linguistic map: Childhood and young adulthood spent in former British colonies in South Asia & South-East Asia; most of my adulthood spent in the east coast of USA; voracious reader across genres and of authors from all around the world all my life (fiction, nonfiction, academic writing, whatever); professional writer for 12+ years who is very attuned to word misuse because of how personally offended I feel when that happens. (I know it's not a good thing, I'm working on it.)
posted by MiraK at 4:00 PM on July 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
the way you've heard it is wrong. It means to have conflicting feelings/preferences, usually where one choice excludes the other.
Like "I'm ambivalent about this hire, I can see pros to both candidates."
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:01 PM on July 22, 2021
Like "I'm ambivalent about this hire, I can see pros to both candidates."
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:01 PM on July 22, 2021
For me, absolutely the definition of opposing or conflicting feelings at the same time. (Also Canadian prairies.)
posted by sonofsnark at 4:01 PM on July 22, 2021
posted by sonofsnark at 4:01 PM on July 22, 2021
First of all, MiraK, I feel your pain regarding enormity. Enormousness is a perfectly good word, let them use that!
As for ambivalent, I'm with the others in understanding it to mean, more or less equally inclined towards two or more valid options.
If you think about the word itself, ambi- means the same thing as in ambidextrous and valent, like valence, means attraction (most often used at the atomic level, but the meaning is the same). So it's more like "I could go either way" than "I don't care."
Apathetic is definitely more what I would use for the case you describe, but it's also possible to use ambivalent in the sense that you are ambivalent about liking something or going to something - like you see the attraction of going out, but on the other hand... staying in also nice.
I'm born and raised in the pacific northwest of the US.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 4:07 PM on July 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
As for ambivalent, I'm with the others in understanding it to mean, more or less equally inclined towards two or more valid options.
If you think about the word itself, ambi- means the same thing as in ambidextrous and valent, like valence, means attraction (most often used at the atomic level, but the meaning is the same). So it's more like "I could go either way" than "I don't care."
Apathetic is definitely more what I would use for the case you describe, but it's also possible to use ambivalent in the sense that you are ambivalent about liking something or going to something - like you see the attraction of going out, but on the other hand... staying in also nice.
I'm born and raised in the pacific northwest of the US.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 4:07 PM on July 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
PNW here as well. I don't use this word much professionally or technically, so in casual conversation there kinda is a thin line between "I could go either way because both options are appealing" and "I could go either way because i don't care between two options". I would not have use apathetic to describe the latter, even if it were more accurate.
posted by OHenryPacey at 4:19 PM on July 22, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 4:19 PM on July 22, 2021 [6 favorites]
I use ambivalent if I care equally about both side of an issue even if I don't feel that strongly about the subject in general, and apathetic if I don't care about the subject enough to develop feelings about it one way or the other. (NYC metro area)
posted by fox problems at 4:20 PM on July 22, 2021
posted by fox problems at 4:20 PM on July 22, 2021
I use "I'm ambivalent" to mean "I'm of two minds" -- like I can see multiple sides to the issue and can't settle on one interpretation or course of action.
I'd say "I'm indifferent" as a punchy way to convey "I don't care much either way" but usually I'd actually just say "I don't care much either way".
Grew up in Minnesota
posted by theory at 4:28 PM on July 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'd say "I'm indifferent" as a punchy way to convey "I don't care much either way" but usually I'd actually just say "I don't care much either way".
Grew up in Minnesota
posted by theory at 4:28 PM on July 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
That is definitely a very common misuse/misunderstanding of the word, and while I consider myself pretty well educated and well read, I misused it as well until I learned its proper definition from Girl, Interrupted.
I live in the Midwest US.
posted by obfuscation at 4:30 PM on July 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
I live in the Midwest US.
posted by obfuscation at 4:30 PM on July 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm in the UK and have always taken it to mean not having strong feelings on either side, or feeling a little on each side.
posted by penguin pie at 5:07 PM on July 22, 2021
posted by penguin pie at 5:07 PM on July 22, 2021
My sense of the word is the same as theory. Grew up in the mid-Atlantic region, have mostly lived in the upper Midwest in adulthood.
posted by eirias at 5:07 PM on July 22, 2021
posted by eirias at 5:07 PM on July 22, 2021
Canadian. Grew up in prairies. Was also shocked to learn it didn’t mean didn’t care either way.
Still use it the wrong way tho !
posted by St. Peepsburg at 5:24 PM on July 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
Still use it the wrong way tho !
posted by St. Peepsburg at 5:24 PM on July 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
Mmm. I think this particular word has lost some of its specificity in general usage because of avoidance of decision-making and lack of effective communication.
It becomes splitting hairs, in most situations, to determine whether someone is saying "both sound good, I'm having trouble deciding between the two", and "neither sound all that great, so I don't care one way or another". Add in additional nuances like "I'm just hungry, I don't care what I eat so long as it's food", "it doesn't matter what I pick, we'll end up doing what you want anyway", and throw in a passive-aggressive "it's the same to me one way or another, I've already decided not to be happy about it"...
And then the person speaking chooses to use words that say none of the above, exactly, but could mean any of the above - for any of many possible reasons - and the line between ambivalent, apathetic, and a few other words just sort of disappears.
posted by stormyteal at 5:53 PM on July 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
It becomes splitting hairs, in most situations, to determine whether someone is saying "both sound good, I'm having trouble deciding between the two", and "neither sound all that great, so I don't care one way or another". Add in additional nuances like "I'm just hungry, I don't care what I eat so long as it's food", "it doesn't matter what I pick, we'll end up doing what you want anyway", and throw in a passive-aggressive "it's the same to me one way or another, I've already decided not to be happy about it"...
And then the person speaking chooses to use words that say none of the above, exactly, but could mean any of the above - for any of many possible reasons - and the line between ambivalent, apathetic, and a few other words just sort of disappears.
posted by stormyteal at 5:53 PM on July 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
Western Canadian here!
I definitely used ambivalent as you are suggesting (to mean "disinterested" or not caring about the outcome) until I learned the proper definition in my late teens.
I suspect this error arises from people misreading context cues when discerning the meaning of the word when they hear it for the first time. Also, unlike a lot of words, you can use it incorrectly without someone who knows the correct definition noticing.
posted by dazedandconfused at 6:22 PM on July 22, 2021 [3 favorites]
I definitely used ambivalent as you are suggesting (to mean "disinterested" or not caring about the outcome) until I learned the proper definition in my late teens.
I suspect this error arises from people misreading context cues when discerning the meaning of the word when they hear it for the first time. Also, unlike a lot of words, you can use it incorrectly without someone who knows the correct definition noticing.
posted by dazedandconfused at 6:22 PM on July 22, 2021 [3 favorites]
“Ambivalent” is a strong “I run hot and cold on this issue.” That is:
“I want every anti-vaxxer to be tied to a chair and made to get the vaccines, to protect their own lives and that of others!”
AND:
“I want every anti-vaxxer to drop dead from the Delta variant.”
Both statements are true about me.
posted by BostonTerrier at 6:31 PM on July 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
“I want every anti-vaxxer to be tied to a chair and made to get the vaccines, to protect their own lives and that of others!”
AND:
“I want every anti-vaxxer to drop dead from the Delta variant.”
Both statements are true about me.
posted by BostonTerrier at 6:31 PM on July 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
To add to stormyteal's answer:
This is a not-unexpected shift in meaning. Word meanings change in similar ways all the time. From a linguistic perspective, neither definition is "wrong" or "incorrect" or "improper" or a "misuse."
These all are notions rooted in language ideologies rather than how language actually works. Certainly, you might personally want to avoid the negative social consequences of not conforming to what people think is "correct" language. But we can still talk about variation in less stigmatizing terms.
One usage is just newer.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:38 PM on July 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
This is a not-unexpected shift in meaning. Word meanings change in similar ways all the time. From a linguistic perspective, neither definition is "wrong" or "incorrect" or "improper" or a "misuse."
These all are notions rooted in language ideologies rather than how language actually works. Certainly, you might personally want to avoid the negative social consequences of not conforming to what people think is "correct" language. But we can still talk about variation in less stigmatizing terms.
One usage is just newer.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:38 PM on July 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
USA (New England), grew up under the impression that it meant "no strong opinion either way", at some point in my teens learned that it means "strong opinions both ways", have been using it "correctly" since. I see it misused plenty (although not as often as, say, "nonplussed"), often enough that I don't even notice much anymore.
posted by dfan at 6:57 PM on July 22, 2021
posted by dfan at 6:57 PM on July 22, 2021
I've always used it to mean having opposed or conflicting feelings on a topic or course of action.
posted by aussie_powerlifter at 7:33 PM on July 22, 2021
posted by aussie_powerlifter at 7:33 PM on July 22, 2021
Huh. I use it as no strong feelings either way. Canadian, from Ontario but live out west. Maybe it’s a Canadian thing?
posted by Valancy Rachel at 7:36 PM on July 22, 2021
posted by Valancy Rachel at 7:36 PM on July 22, 2021
British + literature + degrees.
I tend to use it to mean "have considered both sides and see the merit of both sides but don't have a clear preference" more than "meh."
It's kind of a point graph where zero is centred on the x-axis (measuring pro- and anti- thing) and zero is the baseline on the y-axis measuring how strongly you feel about the thing. Ambivalence isn't inherently weak, but it's never as strong as the strong pros and antis. If you have both strong pro- and anti- feelings, they don't happen at the same time and that gets you into "vacillate" territory. (Hamlet vacillates, and ambivalence is the middle state in his vacillations.)
A specific example of my current ambivalence: there is a development project near me that is close to the city centre in an area that is equal parts commercial and residential. It is a high-density mixed-use building. It involves demolishing a bunch of old (but not especially historic) houses and some trees. The design of the building is fugly and too tall for the space, and it's meant to maximise the profit for the property owners. There are strong pro-urban-development people and strong pro-preservation / tree / historic character people. I support dense infill mixed-use development. I very much dislike the design of this particular building and how the owners have chosen to extract every last dollar from their property. I get the sense that if this project is denied approval then NIMBYs will shut down any attempt at dense infill mixed-use development, but that if approved, it would also set a precedent for fugly money-grabbing projects in these areas. I could argue against both sides if I chose to and not feel hypocritical.
I am ambivalent.
(I think that's also why "agnostic" has been brought in from the domain of religion, although even that has multiple applications.)
posted by holgate at 7:37 PM on July 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
I tend to use it to mean "have considered both sides and see the merit of both sides but don't have a clear preference" more than "meh."
It's kind of a point graph where zero is centred on the x-axis (measuring pro- and anti- thing) and zero is the baseline on the y-axis measuring how strongly you feel about the thing. Ambivalence isn't inherently weak, but it's never as strong as the strong pros and antis. If you have both strong pro- and anti- feelings, they don't happen at the same time and that gets you into "vacillate" territory. (Hamlet vacillates, and ambivalence is the middle state in his vacillations.)
A specific example of my current ambivalence: there is a development project near me that is close to the city centre in an area that is equal parts commercial and residential. It is a high-density mixed-use building. It involves demolishing a bunch of old (but not especially historic) houses and some trees. The design of the building is fugly and too tall for the space, and it's meant to maximise the profit for the property owners. There are strong pro-urban-development people and strong pro-preservation / tree / historic character people. I support dense infill mixed-use development. I very much dislike the design of this particular building and how the owners have chosen to extract every last dollar from their property. I get the sense that if this project is denied approval then NIMBYs will shut down any attempt at dense infill mixed-use development, but that if approved, it would also set a precedent for fugly money-grabbing projects in these areas. I could argue against both sides if I chose to and not feel hypocritical.
I am ambivalent.
(I think that's also why "agnostic" has been brought in from the domain of religion, although even that has multiple applications.)
posted by holgate at 7:37 PM on July 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
USA, mid-Atlantic. Ambivalent = conflicted; holding divergent thoughts and/or feelings about a proposition. I want to eat the lovely plums in the icebox, but I know my partner is saving them as a treat.
Agnostic = no preference about a proposition. I could eat the plums or not eat them; let me flip a coin.
Indifferent = I have no interest in the proposition. I don’t give a damn how cold and delicious those plums might be, or who is saving them for what reason, their existence makes no difference to me. I don’t even eat plums!
posted by MonkeyToes at 7:47 PM on July 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
Agnostic = no preference about a proposition. I could eat the plums or not eat them; let me flip a coin.
Indifferent = I have no interest in the proposition. I don’t give a damn how cold and delicious those plums might be, or who is saving them for what reason, their existence makes no difference to me. I don’t even eat plums!
posted by MonkeyToes at 7:47 PM on July 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
Linguistic map is all over the US but corresponds to plains Midwest + central southern due to family. Anyway, my kneejerk understanding of it when I hear it corresponds to "indifferent, could go either way"; but when I actually use it, I make sure to use it properly, e.g. "conflicted, of two minds".
posted by lesser weasel at 8:27 PM on July 22, 2021
posted by lesser weasel at 8:27 PM on July 22, 2021
I can commiserate here; I learned ambivalent from reading in context and thought it was basically a synonym for indifferent until depressingly recently. I think part of the problem is that both readings "work" even if they are definitely not the same reading and it takes a lot of elaboration that isn't typically done to really drive home the difference.
posted by Aleyn at 9:00 PM on July 22, 2021
posted by Aleyn at 9:00 PM on July 22, 2021
Midwestern U.S. by way of east coast: ambivalent always meant, to me, being indecisive between two or more options. But I've heard it used in a way that implies an overall kind of wishy-washy feeling in general.
My theory: this misuse bleeds over from the word "ambiguous" which can, correctly, mean either having two or more conflicting meanings, *or* being unclear, vague or inexact.
posted by nantucket at 9:02 PM on July 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
My theory: this misuse bleeds over from the word "ambiguous" which can, correctly, mean either having two or more conflicting meanings, *or* being unclear, vague or inexact.
posted by nantucket at 9:02 PM on July 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
Ambivalence is not the same as indifference. Ambivalence means having contradictory feelings or opinions (simultaneously). As others have said, misuse as meaning indifferent is likely based on conflating it with ambiguity, and the more people misuse a word, the more others make incorrect assumptions. (Hence "literally" no longer, per some, meaning "literally" but "figuratively. Sigh.)
Raised in the northeast, live in the southeast. I spent the summers of high school (of my own accord) learning/memorizing the entire Barron's guide (vocabulary) for preparing for the SATs. For fun.
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 9:23 PM on July 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
Raised in the northeast, live in the southeast. I spent the summers of high school (of my own accord) learning/memorizing the entire Barron's guide (vocabulary) for preparing for the SATs. For fun.
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 9:23 PM on July 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think the confusion comes in because indifference can lead to ambivalence. If my feelings about both options are equally weak, it can lead to a conflict between those options in that no one factor on either side is strong enough to sway me.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:19 PM on July 22, 2021
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:19 PM on July 22, 2021
Sometimes I (UK, tech, reader) use "ambivalent" as "both sides" or non-polarised pros/cons and sometimes I use it as "meh" and I'm often ambivalent about which.
posted by k3ninho at 12:11 AM on July 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by k3ninho at 12:11 AM on July 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
(Thanks to MiraK for pointing to "enormity" which I now read as "ex-normity".)
posted by k3ninho at 12:11 AM on July 23, 2021
posted by k3ninho at 12:11 AM on July 23, 2021
I beg to differ with MonkeyToes. Conflicted takes the high ground for conveying a strong feeling of cognitive dissonance which leaves ambivalent sinking towards the realms of meh; but not so low as indifferent, let alone apathetic [which has elements of fetch me a cool drink exhaustion]. Linguamap: expensive education in SE England.
posted by BobTheScientist at 12:15 AM on July 23, 2021
posted by BobTheScientist at 12:15 AM on July 23, 2021
UK spouse strongly leans towards using it to mean "meh." I am from California and can't decide which of the two meanings I like. I realize I am not the first in the thread to make this joke.
posted by johngoren at 1:59 AM on July 23, 2021
posted by johngoren at 1:59 AM on July 23, 2021
Today I learned: "ambivalent" is a surprisingly new word - the OED's first example in English is from 1912, and apparently it comes from a German psychoanalytical term coined in 1910. The original sense of ambivalence was "The coexistence in one person of profoundly opposing emotions, beliefs, attitudes, or urges (such as love and hate, or attraction and repulsion) towards a person or thing. Ambivalence was coined by the Swiss psychiatrist Eugen Bleuler to denote what he and later psychoanalysts identified as a fundamental symptom or mechanism of schizophrenia (a word also coined by Bleuler)." It's interesting that the original definition involved profound feelings, which is fairly different than how the word is used today. The word spread fast: the OED's first example of the more general usage is from 1917, only a few years later.
Anyway, to answer the question: when I saw your title, before clicking through, I read it as meaning that you weren't feeling confident about this question and couldn't decide if you should really be posting it or not. Mostly Northeast American English.
I agree with BobTheScientist that "conflicted" has a stronger sense of being torn than "ambivalent", which is probably where your alternate read stems from: there's a sense that the ambivalent person isn't too strongly invested, emotionally, in the decision - that they don't have much conviction either way and not too much is at stake.
Me, I'm ambivalent about whether I like this phenomenon of slippery definitions or not. On the one hand, I like the certainty that comes with words that everyone understands in the same way - you know people will understand what you say in the way that you meant it, and vice versa. On the other hand, there's something very cool in how we learn the meanings of words through context - if you think about it, it is really astounding how most words really are understood by everyone in the same way, just through context learning. These edge cases, where our context learning can fail because multiple definitions would make sense in a given context, feel kind of like bugs that give you insight about how the software works, and also shed light about how different feelings or sensations or experiences of the world can be tied to each other (e.g., in the case of "ambivalence", being of two minds can go hand in hand with not caring overmuch; in the case of "nonplussed", two seemingly opposite reactions - being gobsmacked and being unfazed - turn out to have some overlap after all; the etymology of "terrific" and the fact that "awesome" has both a terrifying and a delighting sense seem to say something about human psychology and how we can enjoy being scared; etc.)
posted by trig at 3:13 AM on July 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
Anyway, to answer the question: when I saw your title, before clicking through, I read it as meaning that you weren't feeling confident about this question and couldn't decide if you should really be posting it or not. Mostly Northeast American English.
I agree with BobTheScientist that "conflicted" has a stronger sense of being torn than "ambivalent", which is probably where your alternate read stems from: there's a sense that the ambivalent person isn't too strongly invested, emotionally, in the decision - that they don't have much conviction either way and not too much is at stake.
Me, I'm ambivalent about whether I like this phenomenon of slippery definitions or not. On the one hand, I like the certainty that comes with words that everyone understands in the same way - you know people will understand what you say in the way that you meant it, and vice versa. On the other hand, there's something very cool in how we learn the meanings of words through context - if you think about it, it is really astounding how most words really are understood by everyone in the same way, just through context learning. These edge cases, where our context learning can fail because multiple definitions would make sense in a given context, feel kind of like bugs that give you insight about how the software works, and also shed light about how different feelings or sensations or experiences of the world can be tied to each other (e.g., in the case of "ambivalence", being of two minds can go hand in hand with not caring overmuch; in the case of "nonplussed", two seemingly opposite reactions - being gobsmacked and being unfazed - turn out to have some overlap after all; the etymology of "terrific" and the fact that "awesome" has both a terrifying and a delighting sense seem to say something about human psychology and how we can enjoy being scared; etc.)
posted by trig at 3:13 AM on July 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
I'm in the UK and have always taken it to mean not having strong feelings on either side, or feeling a little on each side.
Same here, UK.
If I wanted to say I had strong feelings on either side, I would say "I'm torn between X and Y".
posted by Klipspringer at 4:35 AM on July 23, 2021
Same here, UK.
If I wanted to say I had strong feelings on either side, I would say "I'm torn between X and Y".
posted by Klipspringer at 4:35 AM on July 23, 2021
Also Canadian (Toronto) and know it as "don't care either way."
posted by dobbs at 6:00 AM on July 23, 2021
posted by dobbs at 6:00 AM on July 23, 2021
I've mostly used it (and heard it used) in the "not having strong feelings either way" sense.
(It's linguistically inaccurate to say that either usage is "correct " or "incorrect". The purpose of language is to communicate - so as long as you audience understands what you're saying, you have used words correctly. It's 110% normal for words to be understood in multiple different senses, and for usage to change and evolve over time.)
(Yes, this means that "irregardless" is a word, whether we like it or not.)
If you're aiming for a more formal register, then you might want to stick with the "having conflicting feelings" sense (since it's the one with the longer pedigree). But just because the "don't care either way" sense is newer doesn't mean that it's wrong.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:31 AM on July 25, 2021
(It's linguistically inaccurate to say that either usage is "correct " or "incorrect". The purpose of language is to communicate - so as long as you audience understands what you're saying, you have used words correctly. It's 110% normal for words to be understood in multiple different senses, and for usage to change and evolve over time.)
(Yes, this means that "irregardless" is a word, whether we like it or not.)
If you're aiming for a more formal register, then you might want to stick with the "having conflicting feelings" sense (since it's the one with the longer pedigree). But just because the "don't care either way" sense is newer doesn't mean that it's wrong.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:31 AM on July 25, 2021
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 3:56 PM on July 22, 2021 [3 favorites]