Do you have a favorite pen for writing in arabic script?
October 21, 2019 8:26 PM Subscribe
I love fine writing instruments -- especially fountain pens -- and I also happen to be casually studying the Persian language a.k.a. Farsi. The fountain pen I like to use for Latin alphabet and script doesn't work well for the Arabic script; it seems the nib's too thin. (It's a Monteverde Fine nib.) Using a fudepen actually works better, but I don't imagine that is a normal solution.
Mefites who handwrite in a language that uses Arabic script, what is your favorite pen -- fountain pen or otherwise -- for doing so? Also, does anyone use an italic or stub-nibbed pen for arabic script to imitate a reed pen?
(As a beginner I'm basically imitating the printed style now, which I gather is the naskh style. I understand that I'll eventually move on to more handwritingly styles.)
Any other relevant advice or encouragement welcome!
Mefites who handwrite in a language that uses Arabic script, what is your favorite pen -- fountain pen or otherwise -- for doing so? Also, does anyone use an italic or stub-nibbed pen for arabic script to imitate a reed pen?
(As a beginner I'm basically imitating the printed style now, which I gather is the naskh style. I understand that I'll eventually move on to more handwritingly styles.)
Any other relevant advice or encouragement welcome!
This forum may have you covered:
q=arabic+fountain+pen+site:www.fountainpennetwork.com
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:46 PM on October 21, 2019
q=arabic+fountain+pen+site:www.fountainpennetwork.com
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:46 PM on October 21, 2019
I don't have personal recommendations, but on a quick search this site (and maybe specifically this sampler set) might work for you. The linked FAQ gives a few more resources; one of them mentions the possibility of using "a felt-tip pen with a slanted tip, such as a Sharpie chisel tip" if you want to practice with something other than traditional pens (though the FAQ itself has a somewhat contrary opinion on that).
posted by trig at 12:22 AM on October 22, 2019
posted by trig at 12:22 AM on October 22, 2019
A friend who does Turkish Modern calligraphy (I know, I know — completely different) uses Pilot Parallel pens to get a very striking variation in line weight.
Brause make a Hatat nib. Sure, it's a dip pen, but it's quite widely available.
posted by scruss at 12:53 AM on October 22, 2019
Brause make a Hatat nib. Sure, it's a dip pen, but it's quite widely available.
posted by scruss at 12:53 AM on October 22, 2019
Best answer: Calling it a "fine writing instrument" is pushing it, as it's cheap and plasticky, but I have the Dollar 717 Qalam which is meant for Arabic-script writing ('architect' nib). It's a low-investment way to see if you like that style of nib. I study Persian too; I am definitely not a calligrapher, but the pen is fun to play around with.
But also, try searching خط تحریری to see the kind of calligraphy people can do with just a ballpoint.
posted by Glier's Goetta at 1:56 AM on October 22, 2019
But also, try searching خط تحریری to see the kind of calligraphy people can do with just a ballpoint.
posted by Glier's Goetta at 1:56 AM on October 22, 2019
Oh, and you might also want to try a 'left-hand' nib like Lamy offers. If you're a right-handed person writing left-to-right, you are pulling the pen across the paper. If you're a left-handed person writing LTR, or a right-handed person writing RTL, you are more often pushing to form your letters, and the left-handed nib is supposedly better for that.
posted by Glier's Goetta at 6:01 AM on October 22, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Glier's Goetta at 6:01 AM on October 22, 2019 [1 favorite]
I use fountain pens regularly, and although I do not do any particular calligraphy I do write Nastaliq from time to time. Nastaliq is the standard script for Persian and Urdu, and until recently it was the universal printed script as well. If you are into this stuff, there is a whole history of the use of lithography and its benefits for preserving these kinds of handwritten scripts in the nineteenth and early twentieth century.
Seconding the possibilities of an oblique / stub nib. Lamy, I believe, sells a starter/gift set that has three different oblique nibs, for not much more than a Safari, so that might be up your alley.
My current daily use pen is a Namiko Falcon, which in my experience offers plenty of line variation, more than enough for most Nastaliq varieties (again, not an expert, and I know there are lots of more complicated scripts that would require much greater variation, but in that case you would probably want specialized tools regardless). The Namiko (or now Pilot I think?) Falcon is not a cheap pen, but I got mine on Amazon for around 100 when it was on sale, and it really is excellent.
posted by Stilling Still Dreaming at 6:22 AM on October 22, 2019
Seconding the possibilities of an oblique / stub nib. Lamy, I believe, sells a starter/gift set that has three different oblique nibs, for not much more than a Safari, so that might be up your alley.
My current daily use pen is a Namiko Falcon, which in my experience offers plenty of line variation, more than enough for most Nastaliq varieties (again, not an expert, and I know there are lots of more complicated scripts that would require much greater variation, but in that case you would probably want specialized tools regardless). The Namiko (or now Pilot I think?) Falcon is not a cheap pen, but I got mine on Amazon for around 100 when it was on sale, and it really is excellent.
posted by Stilling Still Dreaming at 6:22 AM on October 22, 2019
If you want to try an architect/Arabic nib before investing in a custom grind, these are affordable & pretty good quality. He has them in #5, #6, and Lamy-style so you can stick one in a cheap pen or pen you already have.
posted by ohkay at 8:06 AM on October 22, 2019
posted by ohkay at 8:06 AM on October 22, 2019
You probably want a fountain pen with an "architect grind" modification of the nib. I would not recommend getting one and sticking it in a pen, as not all nibs and feeds are a good match even if they are both ostensibly "#6 nibs" or whatever. A #6 JoWo nib, for example, may not be a good fit with the feed designed for a #6 Bock nib. The fit between the nib and feed is one of the most important factors in the performance of a fountain pen as a writing instrument. Moreover, fitting a new nib onto an existing feed is not beginner-level fountain pen tinkering.
What I would suggest is that you purchase a new fountain pen and have the nib modified by a nibmeister into an "architect" nib (also sometimes called a "Hebrew" or "Arabic" nib). This configuration is the opposite of a usual italic nib in that it makes a narrow down-stroke and a broad cross-stroke rather than the other way around. It's often called an architect grind, because it is produced by grinding away material at the tip of the nib in order to produce the desired configuration and writing characteristics. Thus, especially if you want to do calligraphic writing, it is useful to start with a nib that has a bib blob of tipping (double broad, for example, or a "zoom" nib).
There are several highly regarded nibmeisters that also sell fountain pens, which enables you to purchase a new fountain pen that is pre-configured with the custom grind of your choice and thoroughly tested and regulated to be a good writer. One is John Mottishaw at nibs.com. I have a Pelikan M1000 purchased from this shop with a broad nib I had him modify into a custom architect grind that I really like. For a lot less money, however, you could get a Platinum 3776 Century with a double broad nib and have that modified to an architect point. Or for a little more you could have a Sailor 1911 Large with a zoom nib and have that modified to an architect point. Both are excellent pens with gold nibs. And there are any number of other pens at a variety of price points there that might be suitable for an architect grind modification. Another nibmeister known for architect grinds is Dan Smith of nibsmith.com. Both shops will be more than happy to communicate with you about the best pen/nib combination to suit your desires, preferences and price point (although it doesn't really make sense to get a custom grind on a truly cheap fountain pen).
posted by slkinsey at 10:17 AM on October 22, 2019 [1 favorite]
What I would suggest is that you purchase a new fountain pen and have the nib modified by a nibmeister into an "architect" nib (also sometimes called a "Hebrew" or "Arabic" nib). This configuration is the opposite of a usual italic nib in that it makes a narrow down-stroke and a broad cross-stroke rather than the other way around. It's often called an architect grind, because it is produced by grinding away material at the tip of the nib in order to produce the desired configuration and writing characteristics. Thus, especially if you want to do calligraphic writing, it is useful to start with a nib that has a bib blob of tipping (double broad, for example, or a "zoom" nib).
There are several highly regarded nibmeisters that also sell fountain pens, which enables you to purchase a new fountain pen that is pre-configured with the custom grind of your choice and thoroughly tested and regulated to be a good writer. One is John Mottishaw at nibs.com. I have a Pelikan M1000 purchased from this shop with a broad nib I had him modify into a custom architect grind that I really like. For a lot less money, however, you could get a Platinum 3776 Century with a double broad nib and have that modified to an architect point. Or for a little more you could have a Sailor 1911 Large with a zoom nib and have that modified to an architect point. Both are excellent pens with gold nibs. And there are any number of other pens at a variety of price points there that might be suitable for an architect grind modification. Another nibmeister known for architect grinds is Dan Smith of nibsmith.com. Both shops will be more than happy to communicate with you about the best pen/nib combination to suit your desires, preferences and price point (although it doesn't really make sense to get a custom grind on a truly cheap fountain pen).
posted by slkinsey at 10:17 AM on October 22, 2019 [1 favorite]
If you already have a fountain pen with a nib suitable for modification, another highly-regarded nibmeister is Mike Masuyama. I've had around a half-dozen nibs modified and/or tuned by Mike and he is one of the very best. There can be a substantial waiting list, however. Both John Mottishaw and Dan Smith from above will modify pens other than those they sell, but especially John Mottishaw can have a substantial waiting list for work on pens sent in for modification rather than modification of pens as he is selling them.
posted by slkinsey at 10:27 AM on October 22, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by slkinsey at 10:27 AM on October 22, 2019 [1 favorite]
Lol. It's trivial to buy this nib and put it on this pen (or any of the many $2 knockoffs on eBay) -- the nib literally slides off. Bonus: you could also try a Lamy LH nib (the left oblique mentioned above) on the same pen! This is totally an option should you not wish to spend hundreds of dollars and possibly wait several months just to see if a particular style of nib suits your needs, especially if you're just beginning. I say this as a person with a Rouse SIG nib and a Linda Kennedy DailyItalic -- a custom grind is absolutely worth it, but make sure it's what you want first. Don't be afraid to experiment before you make a commitment!
posted by ohkay at 10:58 AM on October 22, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by ohkay at 10:58 AM on October 22, 2019 [3 favorites]
Mark Bacas is another well-regarded nib worker in the US, and then there’s Gena (can’t remember her last name) of Customnibstudio. She trained under Mottishaw, and I really want to try one of her nibs.
And all architect grinds are not the same — the grinder will ask if you write at a high or low angle, maybe asking for photos of your hand position so they get it right. I greatly dislike a 60-degree architect, but a 45 would be doable.
I’d say check out the LA Pen Show in February, though that’s not the best show for someone new — only one public day, usually totally slammed, so it’s hard to get on a nibworker’s list. But still, it’s an option.
posted by rewil at 8:02 AM on October 23, 2019
And all architect grinds are not the same — the grinder will ask if you write at a high or low angle, maybe asking for photos of your hand position so they get it right. I greatly dislike a 60-degree architect, but a 45 would be doable.
I’d say check out the LA Pen Show in February, though that’s not the best show for someone new — only one public day, usually totally slammed, so it’s hard to get on a nibworker’s list. But still, it’s an option.
posted by rewil at 8:02 AM on October 23, 2019
rewil: all architect grinds are not the same
Can't emphasize this enough, and it's one of the reasons I am inclined against cheap pre-ground architect nibs off eBay. Architect grind nibs are by far the most position-sensitive nibs to use, and getting the angle correct is a big deal. It's hard to explain this without an illustration, but in order to make a broad cross-stroke and a narrow down-stroke, the long axis of the nib's contact area is in a vertical orientation rather than the horizontal orientation of a more usual stub or italic nib. If the user holds the pen at a substantially different angle than the one to which the nib was ground, the long axis of the nib's contact area won't fully contact the paper and, more to the point, the sharp upper or lower corner will dig into the paper and make for an unpleasant writing experience. It may be possible to mitigate this somewhat by softening the corners making a kind of "stub architect" nib. But there's only so far you can go in that direction, and someone interested in calligraphic writing usually would prefer sharper differentiation between the thick and thin lines than a stub-type treatment provides.
This is kind of a tough question, actually, because architect nibs are generally considered somewhat advanced from the user perspective, although they have become much more mainstream in the past few years among fountain pen enthusiasts. Certainly there is more of a learning curve with an architect nib than a stub, for example.
Anyway, maybe the OP might like to try one of the cheap eBay nibs and, if it seems like it might fit the bill for what they want to do, invest in a broader custom grind more suitable to calligraphic writing down the road.
posted by slkinsey at 11:29 AM on October 23, 2019 [1 favorite]
Can't emphasize this enough, and it's one of the reasons I am inclined against cheap pre-ground architect nibs off eBay. Architect grind nibs are by far the most position-sensitive nibs to use, and getting the angle correct is a big deal. It's hard to explain this without an illustration, but in order to make a broad cross-stroke and a narrow down-stroke, the long axis of the nib's contact area is in a vertical orientation rather than the horizontal orientation of a more usual stub or italic nib. If the user holds the pen at a substantially different angle than the one to which the nib was ground, the long axis of the nib's contact area won't fully contact the paper and, more to the point, the sharp upper or lower corner will dig into the paper and make for an unpleasant writing experience. It may be possible to mitigate this somewhat by softening the corners making a kind of "stub architect" nib. But there's only so far you can go in that direction, and someone interested in calligraphic writing usually would prefer sharper differentiation between the thick and thin lines than a stub-type treatment provides.
This is kind of a tough question, actually, because architect nibs are generally considered somewhat advanced from the user perspective, although they have become much more mainstream in the past few years among fountain pen enthusiasts. Certainly there is more of a learning curve with an architect nib than a stub, for example.
Anyway, maybe the OP might like to try one of the cheap eBay nibs and, if it seems like it might fit the bill for what they want to do, invest in a broader custom grind more suitable to calligraphic writing down the road.
posted by slkinsey at 11:29 AM on October 23, 2019 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you for all your thoughtful and informative answers! I suspended studying Persian shortly after posting the question so the issue was dormant. Now I'm back at it and can report a little.
On first resuming I used a Lamy regular italic pen, 1.1 mm. It works much better than the normal pen nib but is somewhat unnatural to hold for the right-to-left script, and so clumsy and laborious to use. Finally I tracked down the Pakistani Dollar pen made expressly for Arabic script that Glier's Goetta mentioned -- someone sells them on etsy. It's much easier and more pleasant to use!
It is not, though, an architect's nib. It's a left oblique italic nib. (Or maybe 'stub' would be more precise.) If my competence in Arabic script styles grows maybe I will look into how to use an architect's nib for it, but right now I'm pretty sold on left oblique italic. The Dollar pen is pretty darn good for the $8 I paid for it, but it's not as nice as the Lamy and Pilot italics I have. The line is less sharp (maybe because stub and not italic?) and there are issues with inconsistent ink flow. (Though maybe these will go away as I become more accustomed to using it.) I've found some other makes of left oblique italic/stub pens for sale -- like Italix and Manuscript brands -- and will probably invest in a few to have more options. Custom grinding would be a ways down the line.
posted by bertran at 2:24 AM on October 14, 2020
On first resuming I used a Lamy regular italic pen, 1.1 mm. It works much better than the normal pen nib but is somewhat unnatural to hold for the right-to-left script, and so clumsy and laborious to use. Finally I tracked down the Pakistani Dollar pen made expressly for Arabic script that Glier's Goetta mentioned -- someone sells them on etsy. It's much easier and more pleasant to use!
It is not, though, an architect's nib. It's a left oblique italic nib. (Or maybe 'stub' would be more precise.) If my competence in Arabic script styles grows maybe I will look into how to use an architect's nib for it, but right now I'm pretty sold on left oblique italic. The Dollar pen is pretty darn good for the $8 I paid for it, but it's not as nice as the Lamy and Pilot italics I have. The line is less sharp (maybe because stub and not italic?) and there are issues with inconsistent ink flow. (Though maybe these will go away as I become more accustomed to using it.) I've found some other makes of left oblique italic/stub pens for sale -- like Italix and Manuscript brands -- and will probably invest in a few to have more options. Custom grinding would be a ways down the line.
posted by bertran at 2:24 AM on October 14, 2020
This thread is closed to new comments.
I’m guessing that what’s missing from your writing is variation in line thickness, rather than just having too fine a nib. My understanding is that for Arabic script, you want a pen that will draw thick strokes horizontally and thin strokes vertically, which is the opposite of how western calligraphy pens are set up. They’re pretty hard to find, but there are fountain pen nibs designed for this — they’re generally listed as Arabic, Hebrew, or architect nibs. Depending on your writing style, you may also be able to get that effect by holding a western-style nib so that’s it’s rotated 90 degrees. If you try that, you’ll probably have better luck with an oblique or stub nib than a cursive italic, as the more rounded edges will be more forgiving of an odd writing angle.
posted by duien at 10:34 PM on October 21, 2019 [1 favorite]