How creeped out should I be by this gadget outside my house?
July 28, 2018 7:25 PM Subscribe
This sound monitoring station was just installed on an electrical pole immediately outside the front door of my rowhouse. Should I be concerned, and what is it likely being used for?
I suspect it may be part of a sound study for a large outdoor concert venue that's attempting to move close by. I've publicly opposed the venue. Probably a coincidence? A second is on another electrical pole in the neighborhood. For this kind of sound study, what info are the likely trying to gather and how will they use it?
I suspect it may be part of a sound study for a large outdoor concert venue that's attempting to move close by. I've publicly opposed the venue. Probably a coincidence? A second is on another electrical pole in the neighborhood. For this kind of sound study, what info are the likely trying to gather and how will they use it?
This sounds like someone is trying to get out ahead of that concert venue, but it's rare that anyone is that forward-looking. Usually I hear of things like that being installed once the noise source (e.g., an airport) is in place.
A few calls to your city might shed some light. If there's an 'environmental' department, start there.
posted by dws at 7:37 PM on July 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
A few calls to your city might shed some light. If there's an 'environmental' department, start there.
posted by dws at 7:37 PM on July 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
Best answer: They’re establishing a baseline noise environment that they’ll use to measure against later. They need to know the current ambient sound levels at various points in the vicinity of the planned venue in order to measure their impact on noise later. They’ll probably also use it to determine how best to mitigate any sound they produce during the design phase.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 7:47 PM on July 28, 2018 [14 favorites]
posted by otherwordlyglow at 7:47 PM on July 28, 2018 [14 favorites]
Best answer: For this kind of sound study, what info are the likely trying to gather
Volume, basically. (More technically, sound pressure level.)
It's not any kind of audio recording device, if that's what you're worried about - while the device does contain a microphone, the device is taking measurements and collecting data about how loud the environment is at various times of the day. Sort of an audio seismograph, rather than any kind of audio surveillance, if you see what I mean.
how will they use it?
One assumes that your residential area has some kind of noise ordinances (environmental volume limits, essentially - most places have some kind of laws about how loud things can be and when), so either the government or the people trying to build the venue are taking preliminary measurements, and (probably depending on who has installed the device), will use that to determine whether a concert venue can exist in the first place, or to incorporate the data in designing the place or setting limits on its use. IOW, if the monitoring station determines that ambient noise (traffic, mostly, probably) in your area now is 90 decibels (db, for short), then as long as the concert venue's music is no louder than 90 db, they are, technically, no louder than your street was before the concert venue existed, so it's legit. Or, say, it could determine that your area drops to 60 db after 10 pm, so all concerts in the venue have to be done by then. Things like that.
I've publicly opposed the venue. Probably a coincidence?
No way for us to know, really - I mean, this could just be a general government study on ambient noise in your area & how it affects quality of life, and the timing regarding the concert venue is just a coincidence. Or it could be random placement. Or whoever put them up did choose places near you because you've publicly opposed the venue - either to use as ammunition against complaints from you after the venue is operating, or to use as a baseline for "can't be loud enough to disturb this person who has already objected to the venue."
As dws suggested, some digging around your city's government could get you some relevant information - I'd also try the Building & Planning Department as a possible route to see who is commissioning the study.
How creeped out should I be by this gadget outside my house?
As above, creeped out because someone is actually recording the sounds of you and your immediate environment? Not at all.
Concerned because it's possibly a sign that this project may well go ahead regardless of your objections and you may still be disturbed by the noise and traffic and parking and street activity generated by the venue? Worth poking around to see who's running the study and keeping an eye out for announcements of public presentations/meetings/neighborhood feedback about the project, sure.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:23 PM on July 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
Volume, basically. (More technically, sound pressure level.)
It's not any kind of audio recording device, if that's what you're worried about - while the device does contain a microphone, the device is taking measurements and collecting data about how loud the environment is at various times of the day. Sort of an audio seismograph, rather than any kind of audio surveillance, if you see what I mean.
how will they use it?
One assumes that your residential area has some kind of noise ordinances (environmental volume limits, essentially - most places have some kind of laws about how loud things can be and when), so either the government or the people trying to build the venue are taking preliminary measurements, and (probably depending on who has installed the device), will use that to determine whether a concert venue can exist in the first place, or to incorporate the data in designing the place or setting limits on its use. IOW, if the monitoring station determines that ambient noise (traffic, mostly, probably) in your area now is 90 decibels (db, for short), then as long as the concert venue's music is no louder than 90 db, they are, technically, no louder than your street was before the concert venue existed, so it's legit. Or, say, it could determine that your area drops to 60 db after 10 pm, so all concerts in the venue have to be done by then. Things like that.
I've publicly opposed the venue. Probably a coincidence?
No way for us to know, really - I mean, this could just be a general government study on ambient noise in your area & how it affects quality of life, and the timing regarding the concert venue is just a coincidence. Or it could be random placement. Or whoever put them up did choose places near you because you've publicly opposed the venue - either to use as ammunition against complaints from you after the venue is operating, or to use as a baseline for "can't be loud enough to disturb this person who has already objected to the venue."
As dws suggested, some digging around your city's government could get you some relevant information - I'd also try the Building & Planning Department as a possible route to see who is commissioning the study.
How creeped out should I be by this gadget outside my house?
As above, creeped out because someone is actually recording the sounds of you and your immediate environment? Not at all.
Concerned because it's possibly a sign that this project may well go ahead regardless of your objections and you may still be disturbed by the noise and traffic and parking and street activity generated by the venue? Worth poking around to see who's running the study and keeping an eye out for announcements of public presentations/meetings/neighborhood feedback about the project, sure.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:23 PM on July 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks! The venue developer has said they are doing a sound study, but I hadn't expected it to include sound monitoring since there is not yet a venue to monitor. They might be trying to design to mitigate sound impact, but I think are more likely looking for ways to discredit opposition to the venue.
posted by sepviva at 8:37 PM on July 28, 2018
posted by sepviva at 8:37 PM on July 28, 2018
Best answer: If it helps at all, I'm peripherally involved in an area that will be impacted by a very large event venue that is under development nearby (think major league sports and concerts) and though the venue is well under way construction-wise, it's not done yet and they are working on getting an exemption to the local noise ordinance. The venue owners have published their forecasted noise impacts under a variety of planned scenarios and this analysis includes noise studies for the neighborhood surrounding the venue as it current exists to establish the baseline ambient noise. The study uses the baseline to show what the difference will be once the venue is operational and as a result of this public report, they are being asked to modify their plans to reduce impacts as well as make some operational adjustments. So the ambient noise measurements are important, if that's actually what they're doing.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 9:28 PM on July 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by otherwordlyglow at 9:28 PM on July 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
As long as the baseline noise value is available to the public once it is established, this only helps your cause in that you will have concrete and measurable values on which you can base future complaints should the venue turn out to allow excessive noise off the premises.
Just don't go banging around and making an unusual ruckus while the monitoring equipment is in place, lest you make their lives easier by artificially inflating the existing noise measurements.
posted by wierdo at 10:44 PM on July 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
Just don't go banging around and making an unusual ruckus while the monitoring equipment is in place, lest you make their lives easier by artificially inflating the existing noise measurements.
posted by wierdo at 10:44 PM on July 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Many acoustic engineers I've worked with have put a contact number on the sound monitor box. If so, call 'em. Even if they're working for a project you oppose, they typically welcome the input and questions of local residents. Depending on the environmental assessment requirements of where you are, your comments may go on the public record. You should be able to get a copy of the noise report from the engineer, the developer or the city.
Do you know if your municipality has robust noise bylaws? Many places in North America don't (hence Harley-Davidsons being a thing there). If you're in a city, you may already be considered a noise-disturbed area, so there may be no limits. Typically, if you're in a residential-zoned area (that's not on a designated flightpath with noise disturbance registered on title) you have an expectation of relative peace from about 23:00–07:00 on weekdays. A venue likely wants to run later than that.
There are now fairly effective community active noise cancellation systems, but they tend not to be great for varying noise like music. While the sound level meter (SLM) isn't recording everything (it's typically recording a time series of sound pressure level averages across spectral bands, plus extreme values) some SLMs record snippets of sounds around extreme values to allow human operators to categorize the source. It's important to know if there are (for instance) door slams, train noises or other industrial noise sources in an area.
If you're dead-set against this project, there are ways to query the validity of the study. They mostly involve hiring an acoustic engineer to query methodology. As an individual, unless you're particularly well-heeled and of a very technical bent, there are few meaningful ways of carrying out a counter-study yourself. The best way for a developer to discredit opposition is to let a local resident spout techno-gibberish at a council meeting while gesticulating with an uncalibrated Radio Shack $30 SLM …
The presence of this monitor is generally a good thing: studies are expensive, and few developers do them unless they are forced to by local government. So it shows you've got a law-abiding developer and/or a city that stands up for its residents.
posted by scruss at 8:14 AM on July 29, 2018 [5 favorites]
Do you know if your municipality has robust noise bylaws? Many places in North America don't (hence Harley-Davidsons being a thing there). If you're in a city, you may already be considered a noise-disturbed area, so there may be no limits. Typically, if you're in a residential-zoned area (that's not on a designated flightpath with noise disturbance registered on title) you have an expectation of relative peace from about 23:00–07:00 on weekdays. A venue likely wants to run later than that.
There are now fairly effective community active noise cancellation systems, but they tend not to be great for varying noise like music. While the sound level meter (SLM) isn't recording everything (it's typically recording a time series of sound pressure level averages across spectral bands, plus extreme values) some SLMs record snippets of sounds around extreme values to allow human operators to categorize the source. It's important to know if there are (for instance) door slams, train noises or other industrial noise sources in an area.
If you're dead-set against this project, there are ways to query the validity of the study. They mostly involve hiring an acoustic engineer to query methodology. As an individual, unless you're particularly well-heeled and of a very technical bent, there are few meaningful ways of carrying out a counter-study yourself. The best way for a developer to discredit opposition is to let a local resident spout techno-gibberish at a council meeting while gesticulating with an uncalibrated Radio Shack $30 SLM …
The presence of this monitor is generally a good thing: studies are expensive, and few developers do them unless they are forced to by local government. So it shows you've got a law-abiding developer and/or a city that stands up for its residents.
posted by scruss at 8:14 AM on July 29, 2018 [5 favorites]
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You can choose: be concerned about this device, or be concerned about the concert venue.
...you cannot choose one without the other. It monitors sound level.
posted by aramaic at 7:35 PM on July 28, 2018 [18 favorites]