I lived in New York, Troy. I know what a baggle is.
July 10, 2017 1:27 PM Subscribe
How long does one have to stay in a place before one can say they lived there?
I got into a bit of trouble in college for laughing at what I thought was meant to be a humorous essay about how one can't truly understand the real New York unless one lives there, which ended with the apparent punchline that my classmate's ten days living in New York had forever changed her. I don't want to be too much of a gatekeeper and I won't be rude about something like that again (though the advice I'm getting on living in Dublin from people who took a two week seminar at Trinity College fifteen years ago is getting old), but that does not seem like an edge case to me. Maybe it is? How do you draw the line between temporarily staying somewhere and actually living there when writing or speaking about these situations?
Would you say that people who studied abroad for a semester or a 2 week-1 month summer session lived there? What about a college kid in another state for four years who goes home every break and never establishes residency in the college's state? When does a business trip or temporary posting somewhere turn into living there? If someone spends 4-5 nights in a hotel room or company apartment in City A and flies back to their family in City B every weekend for months/years, where would you say they live? How much do things like voting, leases, IDs, and jobs matter here? Does one need to see a place in every season to say one lived there? Does the move need to be intended as at least semi-permanent? Are there situations where you might say you live somewhere while you're there, but years afterward wouldn't think if yourself as having lived there, or vice versa? What other distinctions matter to you?
Looking into what's required to establish residency in various places has been useful in clarifying my thinking here, but I'm more interested in how people view this on a social level and how they actually use language around these situations.
I got into a bit of trouble in college for laughing at what I thought was meant to be a humorous essay about how one can't truly understand the real New York unless one lives there, which ended with the apparent punchline that my classmate's ten days living in New York had forever changed her. I don't want to be too much of a gatekeeper and I won't be rude about something like that again (though the advice I'm getting on living in Dublin from people who took a two week seminar at Trinity College fifteen years ago is getting old), but that does not seem like an edge case to me. Maybe it is? How do you draw the line between temporarily staying somewhere and actually living there when writing or speaking about these situations?
Would you say that people who studied abroad for a semester or a 2 week-1 month summer session lived there? What about a college kid in another state for four years who goes home every break and never establishes residency in the college's state? When does a business trip or temporary posting somewhere turn into living there? If someone spends 4-5 nights in a hotel room or company apartment in City A and flies back to their family in City B every weekend for months/years, where would you say they live? How much do things like voting, leases, IDs, and jobs matter here? Does one need to see a place in every season to say one lived there? Does the move need to be intended as at least semi-permanent? Are there situations where you might say you live somewhere while you're there, but years afterward wouldn't think if yourself as having lived there, or vice versa? What other distinctions matter to you?
Looking into what's required to establish residency in various places has been useful in clarifying my thinking here, but I'm more interested in how people view this on a social level and how they actually use language around these situations.
I live in Vermont which is somewhere out on the edge for the US in terms of who is and is not a Vermonter. I grew up in Massachusetts and lived in Seattle for ten years after college and then moved Back East to live in Vermont. I've been in Vermont twenty years and the answer to most of this is definitely "it depends" but the dependencies have to do, to me, how much population churn there is somewhere in general as well as how judgey the people who live there are about people's bona fides.
So in Vermont a lot of times I'll say "I moved here in 1997, was back and forth between here and Seattle for a few years and moved here for good in 2000. My great grandparents lived here but then my stupid grandparents moved so I'm not a native Vermonter, but I love it here, just as it is, and want this place to be my home." In Vermont the rule of thumb is you're "from away" unless you were born here. It's sort of said as a joke, but sometimes not.
I hold an elected office in my town, have a role in my community and feel sympatico with Vermont-y things (including the less-palatable-to-some parts of things like high rural poverty, high gun ownership, high teen pregnancy rate, etc. These aren't all things that I love about the place but they are all things I accept) However I also spend my summers in MA and when I am there (in a house I own) I feel like I live there but maybe that's because my partner lives in MA (though not with me) and the rest of my family is here plus I own property here and grew up here.
When I lived in Seattle a lot of people were from elsewhere and I got the feeling that being someone "From Seattle" was more of a state-of-mind thing among the younger people there, though that may be because by many standards I probably wasn't a Seattleite.
I think of a few criteria
- where is your family
- where do you own property
- where do you align with the values
- where do you spend the majority of your time (whether work or not work)
- where do you SAY you're from
Everyone combines these differently, it's different from national citizenship which is basically math, you're either in or out (or a refugee, or someone with dual citizenship), it's much more fluid, within the US at least. Would be curious to see what people say about other non-US places.
posted by jessamyn at 1:37 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
So in Vermont a lot of times I'll say "I moved here in 1997, was back and forth between here and Seattle for a few years and moved here for good in 2000. My great grandparents lived here but then my stupid grandparents moved so I'm not a native Vermonter, but I love it here, just as it is, and want this place to be my home." In Vermont the rule of thumb is you're "from away" unless you were born here. It's sort of said as a joke, but sometimes not.
I hold an elected office in my town, have a role in my community and feel sympatico with Vermont-y things (including the less-palatable-to-some parts of things like high rural poverty, high gun ownership, high teen pregnancy rate, etc. These aren't all things that I love about the place but they are all things I accept) However I also spend my summers in MA and when I am there (in a house I own) I feel like I live there but maybe that's because my partner lives in MA (though not with me) and the rest of my family is here plus I own property here and grew up here.
When I lived in Seattle a lot of people were from elsewhere and I got the feeling that being someone "From Seattle" was more of a state-of-mind thing among the younger people there, though that may be because by many standards I probably wasn't a Seattleite.
I think of a few criteria
- where is your family
- where do you own property
- where do you align with the values
- where do you spend the majority of your time (whether work or not work)
- where do you SAY you're from
Everyone combines these differently, it's different from national citizenship which is basically math, you're either in or out (or a refugee, or someone with dual citizenship), it's much more fluid, within the US at least. Would be curious to see what people say about other non-US places.
posted by jessamyn at 1:37 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
In casual conversation I've been known to say I've lived in places for a few months. That seems about the minimum to me - I'd find it weird to say I visited somewhere for 3 months.
posted by bizarrenacle at 1:38 PM on July 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by bizarrenacle at 1:38 PM on July 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
I lived in White Plains, NY for 3 weeks during repairs on my NYC apartment. My connections with White Plains? Practically none, except for the train station, takeout Chinese and pizza and the Marriott Residence Inn. But I unambiguously lived there for 3 weeks and that's not at all an unusual use of the language.
I'm having trouble understanding "New York, Troy" and "baggle" in your question.
posted by JimN2TAW at 1:40 PM on July 10, 2017
I'm having trouble understanding "New York, Troy" and "baggle" in your question.
posted by JimN2TAW at 1:40 PM on July 10, 2017
you can move to New York and make that your home, but if you have to bail and move away in a month, it still counts
Yyyyeah, but.
If there's a time of the year that's especially... place-ey... and you weren't there for it, you didn't really live there. If you didn't go through a Dallas summer, you haven't really lived in Dallas. Buffalo winter. Maybe leaf season in New England, I dunno.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:42 PM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yyyyeah, but.
If there's a time of the year that's especially... place-ey... and you weren't there for it, you didn't really live there. If you didn't go through a Dallas summer, you haven't really lived in Dallas. Buffalo winter. Maybe leaf season in New England, I dunno.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:42 PM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Awesome responses so far, thanks!
I'm having trouble understanding "New York, Troy" and "baggle" in your question.
I put a Community quote in the question field because I couldn't figure out a grammatical way to ask the question in 72 characters. The character has a history of wildly overplaying her time in NYC, is speaking to a guy named Troy, and wildly mispronouncing bagel. (Full scene here.)
posted by lemonadeheretic at 1:47 PM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm having trouble understanding "New York, Troy" and "baggle" in your question.
I put a Community quote in the question field because I couldn't figure out a grammatical way to ask the question in 72 characters. The character has a history of wildly overplaying her time in NYC, is speaking to a guy named Troy, and wildly mispronouncing bagel. (Full scene here.)
posted by lemonadeheretic at 1:47 PM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]
When I moved to Texas I was told more than once that you can't become a Texan, you have to be born one. I have no reason to doubt this and have no hard feelings.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:48 PM on July 10, 2017
posted by Room 641-A at 1:48 PM on July 10, 2017
You lived there if you had no other home to go to.
I agree that this qualifies, but I don't think having another home will always disqualify, like a student in a dorm with a room at their parent's house is still living in the city/state of the college. If you had another home but stayed in another place for 3 months or more, you lived there even if you went back home for short periods.
posted by soelo at 1:49 PM on July 10, 2017
I agree that this qualifies, but I don't think having another home will always disqualify, like a student in a dorm with a room at their parent's house is still living in the city/state of the college. If you had another home but stayed in another place for 3 months or more, you lived there even if you went back home for short periods.
posted by soelo at 1:49 PM on July 10, 2017
I think it depends on the reasons for which you are claiming to be "from" one place or another. I've lived in my current location for 5+ years now, and feel like I can offer advice on where to buy groceries, good/bad restaurants, cool places that mostly "locals" know about, etc. For those purposes, I live here.
However, the place I live is in Vermont, so see jessamyn's very nice encapsulation of what Vermonters view as being "from" this state. There are deep roots here and, for better and worse, they dictate the overall feeling on what it means to be "from" a place. My children were born here and, for them, I think they might barely qualify as being "from" Vermont to many Vermonters.
I think that NYC, in particular, makes people think that living there for 2 weeks separates them from "the tourists." There's this classic Jon Stewart rant for when Trump took Palin to Famous Famiglia showing that, even living somewhere doesn't necessarily mean that you're from there.
posted by Betelgeuse at 1:49 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
However, the place I live is in Vermont, so see jessamyn's very nice encapsulation of what Vermonters view as being "from" this state. There are deep roots here and, for better and worse, they dictate the overall feeling on what it means to be "from" a place. My children were born here and, for them, I think they might barely qualify as being "from" Vermont to many Vermonters.
I think that NYC, in particular, makes people think that living there for 2 weeks separates them from "the tourists." There's this classic Jon Stewart rant for when Trump took Palin to Famous Famiglia showing that, even living somewhere doesn't necessarily mean that you're from there.
posted by Betelgeuse at 1:49 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
I worked on a film project in Berlin for 6 months. I stayed in a hotel, but I wasn't on vacation. Did I live there?
posted by Ideefixe at 1:50 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Ideefixe at 1:50 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
I feel like some people are bringing in the question of when you can say you're "from" somewhere, which is a whole nother kettle of fish to whether you have or haven't lived there.
posted by bizarrenacle at 1:55 PM on July 10, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by bizarrenacle at 1:55 PM on July 10, 2017 [18 favorites]
I think you live in a place when you're there long enough to establish daily routines and you have chores and errands to run to maintain your life.
posted by Automocar at 1:56 PM on July 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Automocar at 1:56 PM on July 10, 2017 [11 favorites]
When I moved to Texas I was told more than once that you can't become a Texan, you have to be born one. I have no reason to doubt this and have no hard feelings.Well, if you live here, you're a Texan -- the natives just get salty about being Native Texans.
I moved to Houston in 1994. I contend I'm naturalized. I mean, it's 23 years. Any native Texan born after August of 1994 has lived here less time than I have, and that means a nontrivial number of actual working, voting, legal-to-drink adults.
But in re: the question, I think the first answer has it right. "You lived there if you had no other home to go to."
posted by uberchet at 2:00 PM on July 10, 2017
As bizarrenacle said while I was in the midst of crafting this comment, I feel like living somewhere and being "from" there are two different things. But it's a contextual question.
When one is traveling, either cross-country or abroad, I think these two things get conflated. If I were traveling in West Africa and someone asked where I was "from," I'd say either the USA or, pressing for detail, Los Angeles. I wouldn't go into my whole story about growing up in Illinois and then living in Massachusetts for a decade or whatever, because it's not germane. I'm not "from" L.A., but for the purposes of that situation, I am.
On a more local scale - i.e., the question is being asked of you in the place where you spend most of your time - "from" feels like a question of birth or origin, and may be construed as an inquiry into your presumed background, regional cultural heritage, inherited attitudes, etc. It can be a form of ingroup/outgroup identification. If someone here in L.A. asks where I'm "from" - even though I've lived here for a decade - I'm not gonna say L.A., because many L.A. folks have a certain level of pride (if not arrogance) at being true locals in a metropolis eternally flooded by transplants. (Gentrification issues can make this even more of a hot point: try saying you're "from" Boyle Heights, and even the fact of growing up in the neighborhood might not redeem you in the eyes of some.) This speaks to jessamyn's point.
And all of that is leaving aside the racially-coded situations where (white) folks ask (non-white) folks where they're "from", even if their family has been in New Jersey for three generations ... which is a whole other thing.
posted by mykescipark at 2:11 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
When one is traveling, either cross-country or abroad, I think these two things get conflated. If I were traveling in West Africa and someone asked where I was "from," I'd say either the USA or, pressing for detail, Los Angeles. I wouldn't go into my whole story about growing up in Illinois and then living in Massachusetts for a decade or whatever, because it's not germane. I'm not "from" L.A., but for the purposes of that situation, I am.
On a more local scale - i.e., the question is being asked of you in the place where you spend most of your time - "from" feels like a question of birth or origin, and may be construed as an inquiry into your presumed background, regional cultural heritage, inherited attitudes, etc. It can be a form of ingroup/outgroup identification. If someone here in L.A. asks where I'm "from" - even though I've lived here for a decade - I'm not gonna say L.A., because many L.A. folks have a certain level of pride (if not arrogance) at being true locals in a metropolis eternally flooded by transplants. (Gentrification issues can make this even more of a hot point: try saying you're "from" Boyle Heights, and even the fact of growing up in the neighborhood might not redeem you in the eyes of some.) This speaks to jessamyn's point.
And all of that is leaving aside the racially-coded situations where (white) folks ask (non-white) folks where they're "from", even if their family has been in New Jersey for three generations ... which is a whole other thing.
posted by mykescipark at 2:11 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
I don't know if there's hard-and-fast rules for getting to claim you "lived" somewhere. I'd say it has less to do with the amount of time spent and more to do with treating the place as your home base. Do you receive mail there? Do you have a daily routine? Could you get, say, a local library card? These aren't absolute requirements, but kind of the general idea.
Where you're from is different and usually implies growing up there or having family roots there. I lived in Chicago for seven years, and it's the last place I lived before I moved here, but I'm not really from there. And of course there are regional/local variations that act as shibboleths - e.g. vocabulary, cuisine, etc. - but a lot of that is either meant in jest or else in-group snobbery.
I'm wondering if the "trouble" you got into in college was not due to semantics and more for making fun of a classmate without their being in on the joke?
posted by Metroid Baby at 2:12 PM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Where you're from is different and usually implies growing up there or having family roots there. I lived in Chicago for seven years, and it's the last place I lived before I moved here, but I'm not really from there. And of course there are regional/local variations that act as shibboleths - e.g. vocabulary, cuisine, etc. - but a lot of that is either meant in jest or else in-group snobbery.
I'm wondering if the "trouble" you got into in college was not due to semantics and more for making fun of a classmate without their being in on the joke?
posted by Metroid Baby at 2:12 PM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
As a gut check, replace "New York" or wherever they're claiming to have lived with somewhere that would not be considered prestigious or a tourist destination. Would you still be questioning whether or not they actually lived there? On the flip side, do you think they would even be telling you they lived there in the first place?
posted by eeek at 2:27 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by eeek at 2:27 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Was there a time in your life when, no matter where you went, no matter how bollixed up your travel plans got or how many flights got cancelled or what other weird curveballs life threw at you, you took it for granted that your goal at the end of the trip would continue to be "Get back to New York"? Then you lived in New York.
Someone once told me that the official tax definition of "home" was the weirdly poetic phrase "The place to which, whenever absent, you intend to return," which amounts to more or less the same thing.
posted by nebulawindphone at 2:39 PM on July 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Someone once told me that the official tax definition of "home" was the weirdly poetic phrase "The place to which, whenever absent, you intend to return," which amounts to more or less the same thing.
posted by nebulawindphone at 2:39 PM on July 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Huh. I almost always say "I spent a year in Germany" and not "I lived in Germany for a year." I was there for a year, I spoke the language well enough to take college courses, and I could give people directions, so I guess I could be saying I lived there for a year. On the other hand, I didn't emigrate and I knew I'd be going back to the U.S. at the end of the year. I don't know that I've ever really thought about it that much.
I think intent is key. While I spent a year in Germany, I didn't intend to stay longer than that. When I moved to the DC area, I moved. (And aside from moving from Arlington into the District after a year I'm still here). I wouldn't have called Heidelberg home, but I call Petworth home now.
And the "native" thing is true here in DC like it is in Texas. People throw around "native Washingtonian" whenever they want to disparage transplants (it's annoying when they do, but it's sort of a joke at this point). If people here ask me where I'm from I'll say Oklahoma (because I grew up there) but I've lived in the District for eighteen years, and it is home to me. When I go anywhere else I tell people I'm from DC.
posted by fedward at 2:50 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think intent is key. While I spent a year in Germany, I didn't intend to stay longer than that. When I moved to the DC area, I moved. (And aside from moving from Arlington into the District after a year I'm still here). I wouldn't have called Heidelberg home, but I call Petworth home now.
And the "native" thing is true here in DC like it is in Texas. People throw around "native Washingtonian" whenever they want to disparage transplants (it's annoying when they do, but it's sort of a joke at this point). If people here ask me where I'm from I'll say Oklahoma (because I grew up there) but I've lived in the District for eighteen years, and it is home to me. When I go anywhere else I tell people I'm from DC.
posted by fedward at 2:50 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think it's very dependent on both the place (some places are much pickier about people "being from" there than others) and the context in which you're saying it.
For example, when I lived in California, essentially everyone was a transplant and no one got bothered about me saying I lived there. Now that I live in Denver, which probably has an equal number of transplants, people are constantly asking whether I'm a Denver NATIVE (something I almost never got asked in CA). Co-workers of mine who have lived here for many decades will still bring up in casual conversation that they aren't true natives, but though their children are (!). I've even had Lyft drivers who will say something like "Well, I was born in Aurora [a Denver suburb] so I'm not really a native." Basically my sense is that different cities/regions/etc. just have different cultures about what it takes to "be from" or "live" there -- ranging from "You had to be born here, literally HERE" to "If this is where you say you're from, your sense of that is better than mine, who cares?!"
Context matters too -- I have sometimes referenced "Oh, I lived in Dallas for a summer" when that's relevant to the conversation for some reason, but I wouldn't claim to know the city super well (since I only lived there for three months during college, which was years ago). I was definitely not a resident in the sense of voting/taxes/etc. but I did rent an apartment and get to know the city better than a weekend visit. So, just sort of depends on the context of the conversation as to exactly how I'll word it.
For the advice givers, I'd say most of them are honestly just trying to help and/or are having a nostalgic reaction to a particularly happy time in their lives, and so want to make a connection on that basis. If their "advice" is along the lines of "Oh, I wonder if X restaurant is still in business, if so they made the most amazing pizza and you should definitely check it out!" you can just say thanks and move the conversation along. If they're insisting on giving detailed/obnoxious advice on stuff like "Oh, you must live in X neighborhood" or "Don't go to Y, it's very unsafe" based on 15-year-old conditions that they experienced for 2 weeks, then you can definitely be a bit more blunt with "I've got it handled, but thanks!" etc.
posted by rainbowbrite at 2:54 PM on July 10, 2017
For example, when I lived in California, essentially everyone was a transplant and no one got bothered about me saying I lived there. Now that I live in Denver, which probably has an equal number of transplants, people are constantly asking whether I'm a Denver NATIVE (something I almost never got asked in CA). Co-workers of mine who have lived here for many decades will still bring up in casual conversation that they aren't true natives, but though their children are (!). I've even had Lyft drivers who will say something like "Well, I was born in Aurora [a Denver suburb] so I'm not really a native." Basically my sense is that different cities/regions/etc. just have different cultures about what it takes to "be from" or "live" there -- ranging from "You had to be born here, literally HERE" to "If this is where you say you're from, your sense of that is better than mine, who cares?!"
Context matters too -- I have sometimes referenced "Oh, I lived in Dallas for a summer" when that's relevant to the conversation for some reason, but I wouldn't claim to know the city super well (since I only lived there for three months during college, which was years ago). I was definitely not a resident in the sense of voting/taxes/etc. but I did rent an apartment and get to know the city better than a weekend visit. So, just sort of depends on the context of the conversation as to exactly how I'll word it.
For the advice givers, I'd say most of them are honestly just trying to help and/or are having a nostalgic reaction to a particularly happy time in their lives, and so want to make a connection on that basis. If their "advice" is along the lines of "Oh, I wonder if X restaurant is still in business, if so they made the most amazing pizza and you should definitely check it out!" you can just say thanks and move the conversation along. If they're insisting on giving detailed/obnoxious advice on stuff like "Oh, you must live in X neighborhood" or "Don't go to Y, it's very unsafe" based on 15-year-old conditions that they experienced for 2 weeks, then you can definitely be a bit more blunt with "I've got it handled, but thanks!" etc.
posted by rainbowbrite at 2:54 PM on July 10, 2017
It can be location dependent.
When I was in grad school for organizational psychology around 2010, I spent a week in a small town in Maine for a course. One day a resident drove me and a couple other students around introducing us to people so we could talk to them about the community. Multiple people, who were otherwise very friendly with our host, also referred to him and his family as newbies - and, while not explicitly saying so, made a clear us-vs-them distinction. After the second or third time of this, I asked our host when he had moved to the town. He told me his family moved there in the mid-1800s.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 3:25 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
When I was in grad school for organizational psychology around 2010, I spent a week in a small town in Maine for a course. One day a resident drove me and a couple other students around introducing us to people so we could talk to them about the community. Multiple people, who were otherwise very friendly with our host, also referred to him and his family as newbies - and, while not explicitly saying so, made a clear us-vs-them distinction. After the second or third time of this, I asked our host when he had moved to the town. He told me his family moved there in the mid-1800s.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 3:25 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
As an academic I've moved every 3 years or so for half my life now. And all of these were for positions I knew were going to be temporary. On the other hand, I never knew where I was going to go after the position was over, so it's not like I was going to go back "home" anywhere. So where have I lived? I count everywhere except the 10 week study abroad (that just seems too short, although I did have a bank account there).
On the other hand I do say bagel, ahem, savory toroidal breakfast object, in a risible way evidently, so perhaps I'm not to be trusted.
posted by nat at 3:33 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
On the other hand I do say bagel, ahem, savory toroidal breakfast object, in a risible way evidently, so perhaps I'm not to be trusted.
posted by nat at 3:33 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
In my case I say I lived in Boston, where I went to college. I think this is for two reasons:
posted by madcaptenor at 3:59 PM on July 10, 2017
- I stayed on campus during the summers and took jobs doing research on-campus; if I'd gone back to my parents' house or if I'd done things in some third location I might feel differently;
- during most of college I did not think I would be moving back to Philadelphia, where I was born. (My parents live in the suburbs of Philadelphia.) I figured I'd go to grad school after college and then who knows what I'd do? I did go to grad school right after college... in Philadelphia.
posted by madcaptenor at 3:59 PM on July 10, 2017
Three months give or take a couple weeks.
Room 641-A: "When I moved to Texas I was told more than once that you can't become a Texan, you have to be born one. I have no reason to doubt this and have no hard feelings."
That's a completely different question. I lived in another province for ten years, at no time did I ever say I was "from" there.
posted by Mitheral at 4:15 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Room 641-A: "When I moved to Texas I was told more than once that you can't become a Texan, you have to be born one. I have no reason to doubt this and have no hard feelings."
That's a completely different question. I lived in another province for ten years, at no time did I ever say I was "from" there.
posted by Mitheral at 4:15 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think there is a difference between "living somewhere" and being "from somewhere."
I think if you stay in a place for more than a month, living "as a local," e.g. buying groceries, doing laundry, paying rent, being involved in community groups, you "lived there."
You can only be "from" one place, usually somewhere that you have a significant emotional connection to. Sometimes that's the place you were born/grew up, at other times it's a place you lived for a formative period of your life.
This is of course different from the legal definition of establishing residency eg for tax purposes, which is usually along the lines of > 182 days in one location.
posted by basalganglia at 4:31 PM on July 10, 2017
I think if you stay in a place for more than a month, living "as a local," e.g. buying groceries, doing laundry, paying rent, being involved in community groups, you "lived there."
You can only be "from" one place, usually somewhere that you have a significant emotional connection to. Sometimes that's the place you were born/grew up, at other times it's a place you lived for a formative period of your life.
This is of course different from the legal definition of establishing residency eg for tax purposes, which is usually along the lines of > 182 days in one location.
posted by basalganglia at 4:31 PM on July 10, 2017
If I received mail, I count it as having lived there. But for anywhere other than my hometown, I also include for how long - which ranges from a summer to ten years.
posted by umwhat at 4:40 PM on July 10, 2017
posted by umwhat at 4:40 PM on July 10, 2017
You can only be "from" one place, usually somewhere that you have a significant emotional connection to. Sometimes that's the place you were born/grew up, at other times it's a place you lived for a formative period of your life.
Yikes. You really made it clear that some of us aren't from anywhere. No hard feelings though, I've learnt to live with it.
But I think a lot of people don't have this. In my life there is definitely a place that is more emotionally important than any other place, but I don't think anyone, not even I, would say this is where I am from.
Regarding how long I would have been a place to have lived there: for me it depends on the form of life. A home and a job and I lived there. There's one place in Italy I stayed in a hotel for a month while doing a course — didn't live there. Another place in Italy, we rented a house, worked and kept a household for six weeks — lived there. Generally, a month would be on the short side for me, though. Also, all in all I've probably stayed in Italy for some years, on and off, and I've payed taxes and rent there and generally had everyday chores there. I would say I've lived in Italy. On the other hand I've worked in Germany for several years, but I never had a home there as an adult and I don't know how to buy a bus-ticket there, so even while I may have been there as much as in Italy, I don't feel I've lived there since I was a child.
posted by mumimor at 4:54 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yikes. You really made it clear that some of us aren't from anywhere. No hard feelings though, I've learnt to live with it.
But I think a lot of people don't have this. In my life there is definitely a place that is more emotionally important than any other place, but I don't think anyone, not even I, would say this is where I am from.
Regarding how long I would have been a place to have lived there: for me it depends on the form of life. A home and a job and I lived there. There's one place in Italy I stayed in a hotel for a month while doing a course — didn't live there. Another place in Italy, we rented a house, worked and kept a household for six weeks — lived there. Generally, a month would be on the short side for me, though. Also, all in all I've probably stayed in Italy for some years, on and off, and I've payed taxes and rent there and generally had everyday chores there. I would say I've lived in Italy. On the other hand I've worked in Germany for several years, but I never had a home there as an adult and I don't know how to buy a bus-ticket there, so even while I may have been there as much as in Italy, I don't feel I've lived there since I was a child.
posted by mumimor at 4:54 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]
Since you're looking at social criteria of residence rather than legal ones, it may be helpful to use a different yardstick than months or years. For instance, living somewhere long enough to observe a kind of change, the first time you walk by a place and remember, "oh, this used to be the ." There is a really, really good Colson Whitehead piece from November 2001 on this topic that you may have run across already--it has a particular meaning & weight given when & where it was published but it also has some things to say about laying claim to a place that may be universal too.
Link: Colson Whitehead, "Lost and Found" (New York Times Magazine)
posted by miles per flower at 5:23 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Link: Colson Whitehead, "Lost and Found" (New York Times Magazine)
posted by miles per flower at 5:23 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
"How long does one have to stay in a place before one can say they lived there?"
Not to be too pedantic (maybe I am!) but "have to" and "can" are meaningless words here. People use the phrase "I lived in ____ for a while" to mean all sorts of things. Why do you want to police their use of that phrase? Better perhaps to ask "oh for how long?" and then learn what they have to tell you about that place. I mean, I lived in a hotel in Newport News for a few weeks once, I stayed in a hotel in Newport News for a few weeks once, does it matter to you which I say?
posted by sheldman at 5:55 PM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not to be too pedantic (maybe I am!) but "have to" and "can" are meaningless words here. People use the phrase "I lived in ____ for a while" to mean all sorts of things. Why do you want to police their use of that phrase? Better perhaps to ask "oh for how long?" and then learn what they have to tell you about that place. I mean, I lived in a hotel in Newport News for a few weeks once, I stayed in a hotel in Newport News for a few weeks once, does it matter to you which I say?
posted by sheldman at 5:55 PM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
I totally misread the question and agree that being "from" somewhere is a derail and not what the OP is asking about.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:55 PM on July 10, 2017
posted by Room 641-A at 5:55 PM on July 10, 2017
3 months seems about right to me (and it's definitely a related, but different, question than where someone is from).
IME it also depends on the age and purpose of the person making the . . . claim?
"I lived in Rome for a summer in undergrad" carries different implications than "I vacationed in Rome for a summer."
posted by aspersioncast at 6:04 PM on July 10, 2017
IME it also depends on the age and purpose of the person making the . . . claim?
"I lived in Rome for a summer in undergrad" carries different implications than "I vacationed in Rome for a summer."
posted by aspersioncast at 6:04 PM on July 10, 2017
If referring to the time spent studying abroad in Italy, I always qualify it. I don't consider it "living there" because I had (almost) every intention of returning home at the end of the semester.
I went to college out of state in RI and lived there for a year after I graduated. I was back and forth in between semesters most of the time but not always. I basically lived in RI from 2001-2006 but since I was back and forth to my home state, again, I would still qualify that I was there mostly for college. I don't think I ended up registering to vote there but I'm not sure. It feels wrong (to me, for my personal experience) to say, "I lived in RI for 5 years."
That being said, when I moved to NYC, I was working full time for 2 years. Then I decided to go back to school, in the city but I moved back home out of state but close before the semester started. I say I lived in NYC for 4 years but it was really closer to 3 or 3 1/2. I think this was because I was older and had a clear goal in mind and felt more attached to the personal and professional roots I had put down there.
I know someone who refers to a time that they "lived" in a city ....they moved there with the intention of staying but moved back after one month for personal reasons. It drives me a bit nuts, honestly. How can you say you "lived" there if you were only there for 1 month? But I think it illustrates the point that intention of staying (or not) makes a big difference.
posted by Shadow Boxer at 6:20 PM on July 10, 2017
I went to college out of state in RI and lived there for a year after I graduated. I was back and forth in between semesters most of the time but not always. I basically lived in RI from 2001-2006 but since I was back and forth to my home state, again, I would still qualify that I was there mostly for college. I don't think I ended up registering to vote there but I'm not sure. It feels wrong (to me, for my personal experience) to say, "I lived in RI for 5 years."
That being said, when I moved to NYC, I was working full time for 2 years. Then I decided to go back to school, in the city but I moved back home out of state but close before the semester started. I say I lived in NYC for 4 years but it was really closer to 3 or 3 1/2. I think this was because I was older and had a clear goal in mind and felt more attached to the personal and professional roots I had put down there.
I know someone who refers to a time that they "lived" in a city ....they moved there with the intention of staying but moved back after one month for personal reasons. It drives me a bit nuts, honestly. How can you say you "lived" there if you were only there for 1 month? But I think it illustrates the point that intention of staying (or not) makes a big difference.
posted by Shadow Boxer at 6:20 PM on July 10, 2017
My train of thought on this earlier was that you could set up sliders for several dimensions here that have a baseline level necessary to count, but it seems like it's almost always some combination of intent plus level of routine established plus length of time in a place.
posted by limeonaire at 11:17 PM on July 10, 2017
posted by limeonaire at 11:17 PM on July 10, 2017
I like the suggestion other people have used of "did you receive mail there?" as being the heuristic. Packages from Amazon and such don't count. It ties nicely into my intuitive sense of where I've lived.
posted by phoenixy at 12:49 AM on July 11, 2017
posted by phoenixy at 12:49 AM on July 11, 2017
I'm from New Zealand and live in the UK. I would call New Zealand home, but not England. I would describe myself as a Londoner (6 years) though, and it's definitely home for me as well. Home for me is a sense of longing when you're away.
It feels complicated when I am in third country and they ask where I'm from! Usually I go for New Zealand as there's a strange grin of joy people get when you tell them that.
posted by teststrip at 1:16 AM on July 11, 2017
It feels complicated when I am in third country and they ask where I'm from! Usually I go for New Zealand as there's a strange grin of joy people get when you tell them that.
posted by teststrip at 1:16 AM on July 11, 2017
Another vote in support of "did you receive mail" or "did you set up mail forwarding" etc. Means that my six month out-of-state work assignment counts (which it feels like it should, even though I was going "home" one weekend every month), but my then-boyfriend's apartment in a neighboring city in college doesn't (even though I spent more time there than at my dorm).
posted by cdefgfeadgagfe at 1:25 AM on July 11, 2017
posted by cdefgfeadgagfe at 1:25 AM on July 11, 2017
Just like our penchant for hideous duck boots and calling liquor stores "packies," Boston has its own way of thinking about this.
Because we get millions of kids from all over the world, but mostly New Jersey for some reason, crashing upon our shores every September, we draw a very clear distinction to those drunk BU frat kids:
1. You may say you went to school in Boston.
2. Unless you went to Harvard, then you may do that renowned dick move where you say you went to school across the river from Boston, which is code for Harvard, except you're expecting anyone who doesn't know the code to ask, "Across the river where," and you say, "Cambridge. Well, actually Harvard," and this is why we all hate Harvard. Even those of us who WENT there hate Harvard.
3. If you went to school here and stayed for a few years, you STILL have to say you went to school in Boston and stayed. You still DO NOT live here, unless you went to Tufts then you probably stayed in Medford in which case nobody cares.
4. If we allow you to stay after graduation and you then do the standard trek to Somerville/Arlington/Lexington/other suburb after having kids, then and ONLY then are you allowed to say you live in Boston. Even if you live in Lexington, you live in Boston. If you live in Arlington, you live in Boston. The only exception to this rule is if you live in Medford, in which case you live in Medford because nobody cares.
In summary, Boston rules are as intricate and bizarre as our love for Greek pizza and tonics and GO SOX Yankees Suck.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:07 AM on July 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
Because we get millions of kids from all over the world, but mostly New Jersey for some reason, crashing upon our shores every September, we draw a very clear distinction to those drunk BU frat kids:
1. You may say you went to school in Boston.
2. Unless you went to Harvard, then you may do that renowned dick move where you say you went to school across the river from Boston, which is code for Harvard, except you're expecting anyone who doesn't know the code to ask, "Across the river where," and you say, "Cambridge. Well, actually Harvard," and this is why we all hate Harvard. Even those of us who WENT there hate Harvard.
3. If you went to school here and stayed for a few years, you STILL have to say you went to school in Boston and stayed. You still DO NOT live here, unless you went to Tufts then you probably stayed in Medford in which case nobody cares.
4. If we allow you to stay after graduation and you then do the standard trek to Somerville/Arlington/Lexington/other suburb after having kids, then and ONLY then are you allowed to say you live in Boston. Even if you live in Lexington, you live in Boston. If you live in Arlington, you live in Boston. The only exception to this rule is if you live in Medford, in which case you live in Medford because nobody cares.
In summary, Boston rules are as intricate and bizarre as our love for Greek pizza and tonics and GO SOX Yankees Suck.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:07 AM on July 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
What if I went to school in Cambridge, but I didn't go to Harvard?
posted by madcaptenor at 6:32 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by madcaptenor at 6:32 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
My undergrad college was a residential campus: I lived in a dorm for 4 academic years and went home for Christmas and to internships for summers, and the number of times I left campus per week was approximately 1. I knew nothing about the town, very little about the city of which the town was a suburb, and didn't feel a particular affinity for the state, nor did I learn much about local customs/phrases from my fellow students, most of whom were also from different states. I did NOT live there; I do say I went to school in Pennsylvania, but I have only rarely if ever said I've lived there.
Even more so, concerning Ithaca, or Bethesda, or one of the places I did a summer internship, I did actually live in an apartment in those towns for 10-12 weeks. But if someone says "Have you ever lived in DC?" I would say "No, I spent a summer in the suburbs once, but I don't know the city." But if someone says "Have you spent much time in New York state?" I'll say "Yes, I spent a summer at Cornell, and we went out hiking a lot; but I've never really lived there". People rarely actually ask "Did you live in __" explicitly, except in those stupid internet quizzes where you're trying to impress the computer with the number of places you've lived.
My grad school was a major state university, and I spent 7 years living in various apartments around town, still went home to my parents 1-2 times per year, but I interacted with the town like I lived there. I wasn't a Townie, but grad students were granted exemption from townie condemnation, whenever they talked about awful Students they were talking about the undergrads, who lived in fairly specific areas of town and did fairly specific things that only interacted with townies in certain ways. Grad students were much more participating members of hte society, we went to grocery stores and hardware stores and gastropubs, not just the campus convenience store and local student bars. So I would say I lived in that university town - but I would follow it up with the caveat that I was there for grad school.
As well as the "did you receive mail there" metric, I'd suggest that one of the sliders is whether you interacted with the rudimentary life maintenance aspects vs the tourist attractions and vacationing aspects. When I moved to Chicago, I'd visited there before, but I knew nothing about the difference between residential neighborhoods, I only knew the tourist attractions. There's a series of "Not for Tourists" guidebooks that focus more on neighborhoods, reliability of public transit, and things like where to find a vet, than on tourist things like how to see 10 major landmarks in a day.
posted by aimedwander at 7:48 AM on July 11, 2017
Even more so, concerning Ithaca, or Bethesda, or one of the places I did a summer internship, I did actually live in an apartment in those towns for 10-12 weeks. But if someone says "Have you ever lived in DC?" I would say "No, I spent a summer in the suburbs once, but I don't know the city." But if someone says "Have you spent much time in New York state?" I'll say "Yes, I spent a summer at Cornell, and we went out hiking a lot; but I've never really lived there". People rarely actually ask "Did you live in __" explicitly, except in those stupid internet quizzes where you're trying to impress the computer with the number of places you've lived.
My grad school was a major state university, and I spent 7 years living in various apartments around town, still went home to my parents 1-2 times per year, but I interacted with the town like I lived there. I wasn't a Townie, but grad students were granted exemption from townie condemnation, whenever they talked about awful Students they were talking about the undergrads, who lived in fairly specific areas of town and did fairly specific things that only interacted with townies in certain ways. Grad students were much more participating members of hte society, we went to grocery stores and hardware stores and gastropubs, not just the campus convenience store and local student bars. So I would say I lived in that university town - but I would follow it up with the caveat that I was there for grad school.
As well as the "did you receive mail there" metric, I'd suggest that one of the sliders is whether you interacted with the rudimentary life maintenance aspects vs the tourist attractions and vacationing aspects. When I moved to Chicago, I'd visited there before, but I knew nothing about the difference between residential neighborhoods, I only knew the tourist attractions. There's a series of "Not for Tourists" guidebooks that focus more on neighborhoods, reliability of public transit, and things like where to find a vet, than on tourist things like how to see 10 major landmarks in a day.
posted by aimedwander at 7:48 AM on July 11, 2017
Haha, these last couple of comments on Boston/Cambridge totally get me. I find myself saying "Boston, well, Cambridge. But MIT!"
posted by rainbowbrite at 7:50 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rainbowbrite at 7:50 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
What if I went to school in Cambridge, but I didn't go to Harvard?
People who went to Lesley or MIT or whatever just say that because they're normal and don't have to play the Harvard game of not mentioning their college because pretentious much.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 8:01 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
People who went to Lesley or MIT or whatever just say that because they're normal and don't have to play the Harvard game of not mentioning their college because pretentious much.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 8:01 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I grew up in a college town and do not consider the students who go to school there to have lived there, even more so for the people who only lived on campus (as opposed to renting off campus). If your only experience of town is the bars & pizza joints, you didn't really live there. Other metrics I would take into consideration - do you have a local library card, are you registered to vote, do you pay taxes, do you know the town government structure/who represents you, etc.
By the same token, I don't consider myself having lived in the town my undergrad college was in, nor do I consider myself someone who lived in Portland (I spent a summer there doing an internship, and I would say "I spent a summer in Portland"), but I do think I lived in NYC (was there for grad school & several years after, had several jobs, was a registered voter, had a library card, lived in several apartments in three different neighborhoods, etc).
posted by john_snow at 8:06 AM on July 11, 2017
By the same token, I don't consider myself having lived in the town my undergrad college was in, nor do I consider myself someone who lived in Portland (I spent a summer there doing an internship, and I would say "I spent a summer in Portland"), but I do think I lived in NYC (was there for grad school & several years after, had several jobs, was a registered voter, had a library card, lived in several apartments in three different neighborhoods, etc).
posted by john_snow at 8:06 AM on July 11, 2017
On the language used...some (most?) people seem to distinguish between "live" and "stay".
I don't, but that's partially also because we usually just ask people "where do you stay?" in my country.
This really confused many of my coursemates when I lived(?) abroad in London and California.
posted by appleses at 8:21 AM on July 11, 2017
I don't, but that's partially also because we usually just ask people "where do you stay?" in my country.
This really confused many of my coursemates when I lived(?) abroad in London and California.
posted by appleses at 8:21 AM on July 11, 2017
In terms of language, I tend to qualify 'lived somewhere' unless it's where I currently live, but that's possibly because all the other places have either been when I was growing up/going to school or relatively short (2 years).
Year abroad Madrid: I may say I lived in Madrid during my year abroad. Or I lived in X city during a summer internship. The place I grew up almost always just gets referenced that way or is mentioned as I lived there as a kid. College area is where I went to school.
I vary a lot about explaining living in New York -- I lived in NYC for two years, or if it's with a local, I will say oh, I lived in Hoboken and worked in Midtown -- it's been a long time.
I don't qualify where I currently live -- though I agree that it often will move to the 'are you from here' conversation. Big metro areas are complex too because there's the did you actually live IN the city? or in the surrounding suburbs?
posted by typecloud at 8:24 AM on July 11, 2017
Year abroad Madrid: I may say I lived in Madrid during my year abroad. Or I lived in X city during a summer internship. The place I grew up almost always just gets referenced that way or is mentioned as I lived there as a kid. College area is where I went to school.
I vary a lot about explaining living in New York -- I lived in NYC for two years, or if it's with a local, I will say oh, I lived in Hoboken and worked in Midtown -- it's been a long time.
I don't qualify where I currently live -- though I agree that it often will move to the 'are you from here' conversation. Big metro areas are complex too because there's the did you actually live IN the city? or in the surrounding suburbs?
posted by typecloud at 8:24 AM on July 11, 2017
See, and on the other hand I grew up in a college town and one of the things I hated about the out-of-state students was that they didn't think of my economically depressed flyover state as a place where they lived — that they just saw it as a shitty rest stop on the highway of life that they'd blow on out of as soon as they could.
I guess in Boston or New York there's probably a ton of people who don't want to participate in the life of the neighborhood but still want to claim the neighborhood itself just for bonus punk rock points. In my hometown, the people like that didn't want to participate in practice or claim us in theory, they just wanted to breeze through with an air of vague boredom and then make sure to move someplace extra-cool after graduation to wash off the hick smell.
posted by nebulawindphone at 9:11 AM on July 11, 2017
I guess in Boston or New York there's probably a ton of people who don't want to participate in the life of the neighborhood but still want to claim the neighborhood itself just for bonus punk rock points. In my hometown, the people like that didn't want to participate in practice or claim us in theory, they just wanted to breeze through with an air of vague boredom and then make sure to move someplace extra-cool after graduation to wash off the hick smell.
posted by nebulawindphone at 9:11 AM on July 11, 2017
I love this question! I was a Navy brat, so the hair-splitting that can go along with deciding where, if anywhere, one is "from" or has lived in hits close to home.
I feel like it's fair to say one has lived somewhere if a) they resided in a place for more than six months b) with the majority of their possessions in tow and c) had no immediate, specific plans for moving to a new location. I add that last part because in the case of a lot of military, academic, or clergy folks, it is pretty well accepted that you're probably going to move again sometime in the next 1-3 years, but you don't normally know where until right before it happens. This leaves you free to fully live in your new location while you're there without making specific designs on the future.
Situations where I feel like it's questionable, if not outright bananas, to claim that you "live/d" somewhere:
-You haven't lived there six months yet. Even if you're fully intent on staying there long term, the first six months is for "I just moved to ____" not "I live in ____".
-You were there for a temporary internship, study abroad program, or other short-term reason that didn't require you to ship your stuff. Normally this is covered by the "under six months" thing anyway (although, the shorter the stay, the more ridiculous the claim), but I'd probably even give someone who studied abroad somewhere for a full year some side eye for claiming they lived there because...
-POTENTIALLY CONTROVERSIAL OPINION: You went to college there. Does going to college someplace mean that you're going to get to know it pretty well? Sure. Tell me "I went to college in City X, and here are my favorite restaurants" and I'll take your recommendations. But college is such a bubble, I'd argue it's a distinct experience from actively "living" somewhere. Source: I did a year of Americorps after college in the same town where I went to school. It was only during that year, when I had an apartment, neighbors, knowledge of local business owners/prominent citizens, etc., that I felt like I actually lived in the town itself rather than just going to school there.
-You were stationed somewhere internationally on a military base/consulate/etc. This is kind of a grey area, because this would check all of the "lived there" boxes, but IMHO there is a distinct difference between living in a different country outright and living on a military base that just happens to be located in another country. Military bases have a unique culture all their own, regardless of physical location. (Source: I lived on a military base in Japan, but it feels weird to say "I lived in Japan" without qualifying it further.) I'd never give someone in this situation side eye for saying they lived in another country, but I'd give them a few more props for having the self-awareness to acknowledge that their experience living in that country was probably distinctly different than it would have been if they hadn't been living on a little USA Island.
Last thing: The first time I encountered someone who claimed they "lived" somewhere they plainly didn't was when I was a freshman in college. A new friend, upon finding out that my family was presently stationed in Japan, told me about the time she lived in Japan.
"Really?" I asked. "How long were you there?"
"Six weeks." It was for a student exchange program. WHAT.
posted by helloimjennsco at 9:34 AM on July 11, 2017
I feel like it's fair to say one has lived somewhere if a) they resided in a place for more than six months b) with the majority of their possessions in tow and c) had no immediate, specific plans for moving to a new location. I add that last part because in the case of a lot of military, academic, or clergy folks, it is pretty well accepted that you're probably going to move again sometime in the next 1-3 years, but you don't normally know where until right before it happens. This leaves you free to fully live in your new location while you're there without making specific designs on the future.
Situations where I feel like it's questionable, if not outright bananas, to claim that you "live/d" somewhere:
-You haven't lived there six months yet. Even if you're fully intent on staying there long term, the first six months is for "I just moved to ____" not "I live in ____".
-You were there for a temporary internship, study abroad program, or other short-term reason that didn't require you to ship your stuff. Normally this is covered by the "under six months" thing anyway (although, the shorter the stay, the more ridiculous the claim), but I'd probably even give someone who studied abroad somewhere for a full year some side eye for claiming they lived there because...
-POTENTIALLY CONTROVERSIAL OPINION: You went to college there. Does going to college someplace mean that you're going to get to know it pretty well? Sure. Tell me "I went to college in City X, and here are my favorite restaurants" and I'll take your recommendations. But college is such a bubble, I'd argue it's a distinct experience from actively "living" somewhere. Source: I did a year of Americorps after college in the same town where I went to school. It was only during that year, when I had an apartment, neighbors, knowledge of local business owners/prominent citizens, etc., that I felt like I actually lived in the town itself rather than just going to school there.
-You were stationed somewhere internationally on a military base/consulate/etc. This is kind of a grey area, because this would check all of the "lived there" boxes, but IMHO there is a distinct difference between living in a different country outright and living on a military base that just happens to be located in another country. Military bases have a unique culture all their own, regardless of physical location. (Source: I lived on a military base in Japan, but it feels weird to say "I lived in Japan" without qualifying it further.) I'd never give someone in this situation side eye for saying they lived in another country, but I'd give them a few more props for having the self-awareness to acknowledge that their experience living in that country was probably distinctly different than it would have been if they hadn't been living on a little USA Island.
Last thing: The first time I encountered someone who claimed they "lived" somewhere they plainly didn't was when I was a freshman in college. A new friend, upon finding out that my family was presently stationed in Japan, told me about the time she lived in Japan.
"Really?" I asked. "How long were you there?"
"Six weeks." It was for a student exchange program. WHAT.
posted by helloimjennsco at 9:34 AM on July 11, 2017
College is on a case by case basis.
If you went to a place, but were only there when school was in session and didn't really venture out from the campus, I agree you probably just went to school there. You didn't live there.
OTOH, when I moved to Tuscaloosa to attend Alabama in August of 1988, I stayed there until well after I graduated with the exception of the first summer and big holiday breaks. Within a year or two, I had an Alabama driver's license, I voted there, I paid taxes there, and tagged my car there. I lived there.
But other members of my cohort at Alabama didn't make that transition, either mentally or logistically, until after they graduated.
The "bubble" some campuses offer may make it more difficult to establish broader-community bona fides, but I'd say that you still might live in that town if you considered it your real home. It's harder to do living on a campus, though.
posted by uberchet at 11:55 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
If you went to a place, but were only there when school was in session and didn't really venture out from the campus, I agree you probably just went to school there. You didn't live there.
OTOH, when I moved to Tuscaloosa to attend Alabama in August of 1988, I stayed there until well after I graduated with the exception of the first summer and big holiday breaks. Within a year or two, I had an Alabama driver's license, I voted there, I paid taxes there, and tagged my car there. I lived there.
But other members of my cohort at Alabama didn't make that transition, either mentally or logistically, until after they graduated.
The "bubble" some campuses offer may make it more difficult to establish broader-community bona fides, but I'd say that you still might live in that town if you considered it your real home. It's harder to do living on a campus, though.
posted by uberchet at 11:55 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
The clear, definitive, true answer to this question is:
If someone you knew was visiting that place, phoned you and asked you where to find an all night drugstore or at least a convenience store that would have bandages/advil/tampons/whatever and you could name more than one without googling, then you lived there. The tuck shop in your hotel/resort doesn't count.
You might be thinking 'oh, but the place I'm wondering about doesn't have an all night drug store' and I'm saying that if you've never needed something in the middle of the night, you haven't been in the place long enough to say you've lived there.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:59 PM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
If someone you knew was visiting that place, phoned you and asked you where to find an all night drugstore or at least a convenience store that would have bandages/advil/tampons/whatever and you could name more than one without googling, then you lived there. The tuck shop in your hotel/resort doesn't count.
You might be thinking 'oh, but the place I'm wondering about doesn't have an all night drug store' and I'm saying that if you've never needed something in the middle of the night, you haven't been in the place long enough to say you've lived there.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:59 PM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
And then I lost the plot of my point, which was -- if you'd really needed it, you would know which towns nearby had it available in the middle of the night.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:03 PM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by jacquilynne at 10:03 PM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
The place where you would go if you didn't have a reason to be somewhere else is your home. If you have two homes (like children who have divorced parents) then you have two homes.
posted by blnkfrnk at 1:36 PM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]