Phonetics for the whole world!
March 22, 2012 7:05 AM Subscribe
I'm having trouble figuring out the pronunciation of several of my Chinese students' names. Help!
I like to be able to at least give off the appearance of being able to pronounce all my students' names when I check the roster at the beginning of class. This quarter, most of the names are pretty straightforward, but I have two Chinese students' whose names I'm not totally sure about:
Shuang
Sijiao
Qiu
Xu
I'd appreciate if someone better at Chinese pronunciation than I could give me a clear phonetic suggestion for those names.
I like to be able to at least give off the appearance of being able to pronounce all my students' names when I check the roster at the beginning of class. This quarter, most of the names are pretty straightforward, but I have two Chinese students' whose names I'm not totally sure about:
Shuang
Sijiao
Qiu
Xu
I'd appreciate if someone better at Chinese pronunciation than I could give me a clear phonetic suggestion for those names.
Also non-native...
Shwahng (with a soft A)
Sih-JYOW (second syllable is emphasized)
Cheeoo (all one syllable, say it fast)
Shoo (with a pretty hard sh-)
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:20 AM on March 22, 2012
Shwahng (with a soft A)
Sih-JYOW (second syllable is emphasized)
Cheeoo (all one syllable, say it fast)
Shoo (with a pretty hard sh-)
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:20 AM on March 22, 2012
Many of my Chinese students have English nicknames they preferred to be called. You may want to ask if they do.
posted by gnutron at 7:34 AM on March 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by gnutron at 7:34 AM on March 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
I know someone named Xu who goes by his family name instead because neither of the sounds used in Xu are actually present in English, and English-speakers have great trouble with them. "Shoo" is a good first approximation, but Wikipedia's rules would help you do it more accurately:
x: No equivalent in English as a single alphabet. But it is Like she, with the lips spread and the tip of your tongue curled downwards and stuck to the back of teeth when you say ee.posted by grouse at 7:43 AM on March 22, 2012
u after x: as in German "über" or French "lune" (To get this sound, say "ee" with rounded lips)
Many of my Chinese students have English nicknames they preferred to be called. You may want to ask if they do.
My experience is that people will volunteer English names, should they prefer them. Asking risks creating the impression that using one's given/Chinese name is somehow the less-desirable option. You can always preface calling the role by saying they should tell you want they want to be called, without mentioning English names explicitly. (Or ask them to introduce themselves. This helps me learn names more easily, but I do end up having to ask every other student to spell their surname because trying to remember who they are and find their name on the list is too much to do, apparently.)
posted by hoyland at 8:08 AM on March 22, 2012 [4 favorites]
My experience is that people will volunteer English names, should they prefer them. Asking risks creating the impression that using one's given/Chinese name is somehow the less-desirable option. You can always preface calling the role by saying they should tell you want they want to be called, without mentioning English names explicitly. (Or ask them to introduce themselves. This helps me learn names more easily, but I do end up having to ask every other student to spell their surname because trying to remember who they are and find their name on the list is too much to do, apparently.)
posted by hoyland at 8:08 AM on March 22, 2012 [4 favorites]
I also have Chines students, and this is what I've learned:
X = zh
Q = sh
Why whoever chose to mark the "sh" sound with a Q is a Mystery of the Orient.
posted by Rash at 8:40 AM on March 22, 2012
X = zh
Q = sh
Why whoever chose to mark the "sh" sound with a Q is a Mystery of the Orient.
posted by Rash at 8:40 AM on March 22, 2012
X = zh
This is wrong.
Why whoever chose to mark the "sh" sound with a Q is a Mystery of the Orient.
"sh" is used for one phoneme in pinyin, and so "q" was used for a different one.
posted by grouse at 8:46 AM on March 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
This is wrong.
Why whoever chose to mark the "sh" sound with a Q is a Mystery of the Orient.
"sh" is used for one phoneme in pinyin, and so "q" was used for a different one.
posted by grouse at 8:46 AM on March 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
Mmm, I disagree with Rash.
The closest phoneme to the X in English is "sh".
The closest phoneme to Q in English is "ch".
In my opinion (another non-native Mandarin speaker!) the Q sound is indeed VERY close to "ch", but the X sound just totally doesn't exist in English. It's the sound you make if you're ATTEMPTING to make a whistle between your teeth, but failing. Kind of a cross between a hiss, a "ts" and a "sh".
"SH" is indeed a Mandarin phoneme, and it's just a straight-up "sh" sound, but very heavy-sounding and more drawn-out than we use it in English.
posted by Cygnet at 9:41 AM on March 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
The closest phoneme to the X in English is "sh".
The closest phoneme to Q in English is "ch".
In my opinion (another non-native Mandarin speaker!) the Q sound is indeed VERY close to "ch", but the X sound just totally doesn't exist in English. It's the sound you make if you're ATTEMPTING to make a whistle between your teeth, but failing. Kind of a cross between a hiss, a "ts" and a "sh".
"SH" is indeed a Mandarin phoneme, and it's just a straight-up "sh" sound, but very heavy-sounding and more drawn-out than we use it in English.
posted by Cygnet at 9:41 AM on March 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: So it sounds like if I say "Shwong Cheeoo" and "Seejyow Shoo," my students will not be insulted by my stumbling over their names. Thanks!
posted by ChuraChura at 10:21 AM on March 22, 2012
posted by ChuraChura at 10:21 AM on March 22, 2012
Best answer: Native Mandarin speaker here. To answer your question:
Shuang: shwong
Sijiao: ss (as in 'sea', but drawn out) + jow (as in 'jowl'). No emphasising either syllable.
Qiu: cho (there's a reason 'Cho Chang' was translated as 'Qiu Zhang'!)
Xu: shh, or su as pronounced in French
posted by fix at 10:23 AM on March 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Shuang: shwong
Sijiao: ss (as in 'sea', but drawn out) + jow (as in 'jowl'). No emphasising either syllable.
Qiu: cho (there's a reason 'Cho Chang' was translated as 'Qiu Zhang'!)
Xu: shh, or su as pronounced in French
posted by fix at 10:23 AM on March 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Non-native but pretty proficient Mandarin speaker here with some experience in teaching Chinese. People have covered this pretty well so far, but I figured it couldn't hurt to chip in:
- As fix said, "shuang" is "shwong," more or less.
- Sijiao -- this is two syllables, "si" (think of the first part of "silk," then emphasize the "s" a little more than you usually would) and "jiao" ("j" + "yow," though "jow" as suggested above will do in a pinch).
- Qiu -- "q" scares people off, but it's almost exactly the same as the "tch" in "itch." You can fudge it with a regular "ch" sound, or move your tongue a bit further forward into a "tch" sound if you really want to impress.
- Xu -- If "q" doesn't scare people off, "x" does. "Xu" sounds close to the first half of "sure" in my variety of English. The sound that "x" represents is very close to "sh," and you can pronounce "xu" as "Shyoo" and be more or less within the ballpark.
That said, if you want to be a little bit closer, you can make a "sh" sound, then move the tip of your tongue to behind your bottom teeth and make the same sound. The second sound is more or less the one represented by "x" in Pinyin. Do this while saying "shoo" -- and keep your tongue there while you make the vowel -- and you will be very close to Pinyin "Xu." This holds true for English "she" or "shee" and Pinyin "Xi," too.
posted by bokane at 7:19 AM on March 31, 2012
- As fix said, "shuang" is "shwong," more or less.
- Sijiao -- this is two syllables, "si" (think of the first part of "silk," then emphasize the "s" a little more than you usually would) and "jiao" ("j" + "yow," though "jow" as suggested above will do in a pinch).
- Qiu -- "q" scares people off, but it's almost exactly the same as the "tch" in "itch." You can fudge it with a regular "ch" sound, or move your tongue a bit further forward into a "tch" sound if you really want to impress.
- Xu -- If "q" doesn't scare people off, "x" does. "Xu" sounds close to the first half of "sure" in my variety of English. The sound that "x" represents is very close to "sh," and you can pronounce "xu" as "Shyoo" and be more or less within the ballpark.
That said, if you want to be a little bit closer, you can make a "sh" sound, then move the tip of your tongue to behind your bottom teeth and make the same sound. The second sound is more or less the one represented by "x" in Pinyin. Do this while saying "shoo" -- and keep your tongue there while you make the vowel -- and you will be very close to Pinyin "Xu." This holds true for English "she" or "shee" and Pinyin "Xi," too.
posted by bokane at 7:19 AM on March 31, 2012
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Shwang
Suh Jeeow
Chew
Shoo
Very far from perfect, but many mandarin syllables do not map closely to English ones. Those should get recognised.
posted by firesine at 7:10 AM on March 22, 2012