Octopus's Garden
August 27, 2011 8:24 AM Subscribe
What kind of structure could be built to permit up-close observation of a hurricane?
Please assume 1) high ground 2) a magical ability to predict landfall location 3) deep purse.
I'd guess a low reinforced concrete dome with portholes of heavy glass. Has anybody ever done that?
Note: This is a theoretical engineering question, not a 'should I do this' question.
Please assume 1) high ground 2) a magical ability to predict landfall location 3) deep purse.
I'd guess a low reinforced concrete dome with portholes of heavy glass. Has anybody ever done that?
Note: This is a theoretical engineering question, not a 'should I do this' question.
The reinforced concrete dome (with deep footings, natch!) sounds good. And I'd keep those ports round, as they're probably less likely to get popped out by high winds.
posted by easily confused at 8:30 AM on August 27, 2011
posted by easily confused at 8:30 AM on August 27, 2011
Not sexy, maybe, but it sounds like you need a satellite.
posted by rokusan at 8:34 AM on August 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by rokusan at 8:34 AM on August 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'd want to keep the dome as low-profile and small as possible - have the majority of the structure underground.
There are also utility concerns (particularly water and water pressure - towers are vulnerable, pumps take a lot of power) that come into play since you don't know exactly when it'll hit and what the roads will be like afterwards. You need a much bigger structure, I think, than what you can realistically fit in a low dome above the surface - either for machines or supplies.
If it were in a useful location, an ICBM launch facility, capped with a dome, would be excessive but wonderful.
posted by SMPA at 8:40 AM on August 27, 2011
There are also utility concerns (particularly water and water pressure - towers are vulnerable, pumps take a lot of power) that come into play since you don't know exactly when it'll hit and what the roads will be like afterwards. You need a much bigger structure, I think, than what you can realistically fit in a low dome above the surface - either for machines or supplies.
If it were in a useful location, an ICBM launch facility, capped with a dome, would be excessive but wonderful.
posted by SMPA at 8:40 AM on August 27, 2011
You could probably use some extra thick Lexan with some steel bars outside the window to stop larger debris.
Properly reenforced concrete is incredibly tough, as is Lexan.
posted by gjc at 8:51 AM on August 27, 2011
Properly reenforced concrete is incredibly tough, as is Lexan.
posted by gjc at 8:51 AM on August 27, 2011
Trouble with some of these ideas is that flooding is the main danger, not wind. Need something wind-resistant, yes, but up high enough to survive a storm surge.
posted by fivesavagepalms at 9:00 AM on August 27, 2011
posted by fivesavagepalms at 9:00 AM on August 27, 2011
either up high enough or watertight. riding out the storm surge from underneath is a possibility.
posted by spindle at 9:06 AM on August 27, 2011
posted by spindle at 9:06 AM on August 27, 2011
Air-tight & geosynchronous. Doesn't need to be water-tight or particularly strong. Radiation shielding is a plus.
posted by bonehead at 9:10 AM on August 27, 2011
posted by bonehead at 9:10 AM on August 27, 2011
NOAA used to fly aircraft into hurricanes to measure wind strength.
Nowadays they use satellites.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 9:16 AM on August 27, 2011
Nowadays they use satellites.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 9:16 AM on August 27, 2011
Aircraft are regularly flown into hurricanes, by both NOAA and the US Air Force. They've been going into Irene every three hours for the past several days.
posted by penguinicity at 9:29 AM on August 27, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by penguinicity at 9:29 AM on August 27, 2011 [4 favorites]
As a starting data point i would look at storming chasing vehicles like this. Top speed of 100mph, range of 700+ miles, tested on mythbusters to stay stationary in winds of 250mph. This gives you better ability to locate close to landfall, on higher ground to avoid storm syrges/flooding. But as you can see from the wikipedia article reliability is a concern, and in a hurricane situation, quite a big concern. Also I assume this is waterproof enough for rain, but doubt it is able to be fully submerged. Also I havent seen any tests of its durabilty versus flying trees/cars. So if you could guarantee reliability, could convert into a submarine/boat and the steel/plexiglass is strong enough to take a car, I would go with a vehicle/
If you were going to go with a building, my major concerns would be debris breaking windows, flooding, power and supplies.
Rather than a low dome, I would build a high concrete dome or even tower, maybe 5 stories (or basically as much reinforced concrete as you can afford). This would negate flooding and I think to some extent debris (from the other open threads I get the idea debris doesnt get this high). Would have a lot of small recessed windows, for less chance of debris hitting them, with shutters able to be controlled from inside, both electronically and mechanically, possibly with failsafes (ie if mechanical or electrical control fails, shutter automatically closes).
With 5 stories of space, power and supplies become almost a trivial issue. Fill one storey with water and food, one storey with generators and fuel. I imagine you could get 7 days from this, and then resupply, if you experience a Katrina level event, with breakdown of supply options, then this becomes a non-trivial issue, but would be a case of building bigger for more storage space. Waste from both of these things needs to be considered. In the case of severe flooding you are going to need a septic tank to take over from failed sewerage systems. You will need some way of venting exhaust gas and some way of cooling generators (not a small issue, the generators at the data centre I work at have external radiators of 20x10 feet. Granted they are 48L engines, so you may not need that much power). You will need a storm proof, debris proof and flood proof external radiator system.
posted by lrobertjones at 3:04 AM on August 28, 2011
If you were going to go with a building, my major concerns would be debris breaking windows, flooding, power and supplies.
Rather than a low dome, I would build a high concrete dome or even tower, maybe 5 stories (or basically as much reinforced concrete as you can afford). This would negate flooding and I think to some extent debris (from the other open threads I get the idea debris doesnt get this high). Would have a lot of small recessed windows, for less chance of debris hitting them, with shutters able to be controlled from inside, both electronically and mechanically, possibly with failsafes (ie if mechanical or electrical control fails, shutter automatically closes).
With 5 stories of space, power and supplies become almost a trivial issue. Fill one storey with water and food, one storey with generators and fuel. I imagine you could get 7 days from this, and then resupply, if you experience a Katrina level event, with breakdown of supply options, then this becomes a non-trivial issue, but would be a case of building bigger for more storage space. Waste from both of these things needs to be considered. In the case of severe flooding you are going to need a septic tank to take over from failed sewerage systems. You will need some way of venting exhaust gas and some way of cooling generators (not a small issue, the generators at the data centre I work at have external radiators of 20x10 feet. Granted they are 48L engines, so you may not need that much power). You will need a storm proof, debris proof and flood proof external radiator system.
posted by lrobertjones at 3:04 AM on August 28, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by snowjoe at 8:28 AM on August 27, 2011