What does "druther"mean?
June 11, 2011 10:42 AM Subscribe
From "The Call of the Wild", I have some questions. Please help me if you read the book.
1) "He's no slouch at dog-breakin',that's wot I say,"; one of the men on the wall cried enthusiastically. "Druther break cayuses any day, and twice on Sundays," was the reply of the driver ,as he climbed on the waggon and started the horses......... what does Druther mean? One Japanese book says that is the name of the man in the red sweater. Well, in my dictionary, it says [ rather(adv.)..from a US regional pronunc.of I'd rather.] Then, will it mean, "I would rather break..."? How about understanding, "; He would rather break.."? And 'druther' is used commonly there?
2) There is more to it than this.
When someone says this phrase just as it is to you, do you assume that a good new s(thing) is coming next? (Or the bad one is coming next usually? ) It all depends?
1) "He's no slouch at dog-breakin',that's wot I say,"; one of the men on the wall cried enthusiastically. "Druther break cayuses any day, and twice on Sundays," was the reply of the driver ,as he climbed on the waggon and started the horses......... what does Druther mean? One Japanese book says that is the name of the man in the red sweater. Well, in my dictionary, it says [ rather(adv.)..from a US regional pronunc.of I'd rather.] Then, will it mean, "I would rather break..."? How about understanding, "; He would rather break.."? And 'druther' is used commonly there?
2) There is more to it than this.
When someone says this phrase just as it is to you, do you assume that a good new s(thing) is coming next? (Or the bad one is coming next usually? ) It all depends?
Druther is a result of "I'd rather " and poor pronunciation.
posted by annsunny at 10:45 AM on June 11, 2011 [9 favorites]
posted by annsunny at 10:45 AM on June 11, 2011 [9 favorites]
In this dialect, the speaker shortens "I would rather" into the word "druther" and uses a local idiom "cayuses" meaning horses. He means that trying to train a fierce dog is harder than training a horse.
posted by nightwood at 10:48 AM on June 11, 2011 [7 favorites]
posted by nightwood at 10:48 AM on June 11, 2011 [7 favorites]
Best answer: The origin of the term is, as your dictionary mentions, a condensed form of "I'd rather"--I would rather: in other words, I would prefer to do [x]. The X is not necessarily a good or fun thing, but it's preferred over the Y. In your example, the speaker would rather break cayuse [Indian ponies] than break dogs. Both these things are probably hard, but for whatever reason, the speaker prefers training ponies over training dogs.
However, in contemporary American English, the only time you'll hear this construction is in the idiomatic phrase "if I had my druthers," which means "If I could chose" [between two or more options]. I'd say it's most commonly used when Speaker A presents a couple of choices ("Do you want to paint the house red or blue") and Speaker B counters with a choice that was not presented at all ("If I had my druthers, we wouldn't paint the house at all."
I'd say it's more common among older speakers and has fallen even more out of favor with younger generations, and it is also associated with rural/southern/midwestern/Western dialects and not with urban/coastal dialects.
posted by SomeTrickPony at 10:54 AM on June 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
However, in contemporary American English, the only time you'll hear this construction is in the idiomatic phrase "if I had my druthers," which means "If I could chose" [between two or more options]. I'd say it's most commonly used when Speaker A presents a couple of choices ("Do you want to paint the house red or blue") and Speaker B counters with a choice that was not presented at all ("If I had my druthers, we wouldn't paint the house at all."
I'd say it's more common among older speakers and has fallen even more out of favor with younger generations, and it is also associated with rural/southern/midwestern/Western dialects and not with urban/coastal dialects.
posted by SomeTrickPony at 10:54 AM on June 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
An average American would know that "druther" means "I'd rather." It's used in a lot of books from that era. I don't think it has anything to do with good news/bad news.
An average American would not know that "cayus" means "horse," but the word "cayuse" or "cayoose" is sometimes used if you hang out around horse people.
posted by miyabo at 10:54 AM on June 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
An average American would not know that "cayus" means "horse," but the word "cayuse" or "cayoose" is sometimes used if you hang out around horse people.
posted by miyabo at 10:54 AM on June 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best answer: "He's no slouch" means "He is good at" (a slouch would be a lazy or unskilled person. This word as a noun is mostly used in the idiom "he's no slouch", meaning someone who is good and hardworking at something.)
"Druther break cayuses any day, and twice on Sundays" means I would rather train horses [than train dogs], under any circumstances. "twice on Sundays" is just an extra bit added on for funny emphasis, showing how much more difficult he thinks dog training is than horse training. "Cayuse" appears in some old songs (for example "Don't Fence Me In") about western/cowboy life, but is not a common word today for most people.
A lot of the phrases you'll see in that book are very regional and time-specific. If you used them in present-day Canadian/US city, people would think you were joking or deliberately speaking in an old-fashioned way.
I think you are also asking about the phrase "There is more to it than this."
Whether this is good or bad depends on context. It means, there is more explanation needed, or there is something else going on that is not immediately obvious. I think in most cases where this would be used in a story, what will follow is a plot twist, something unexpected which may be a further problem to solve, or a surprise about a character's secret motives. (So maybe it's more likely to be something a bit bad?)
Examples: "She wants to buy the house. But there is more to it than this. She is hoping to demolish the house and build a gas station."
"Edward said he loves me. There is more to it than this -- Frank also said he loves me! I don't know what to do!"
"Sally will inherit the whole estate. But I suspect there is more to it than this, we need to look in her uncle's will to discover the full story."
posted by LobsterMitten at 11:06 AM on June 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
"Druther break cayuses any day, and twice on Sundays" means I would rather train horses [than train dogs], under any circumstances. "twice on Sundays" is just an extra bit added on for funny emphasis, showing how much more difficult he thinks dog training is than horse training. "Cayuse" appears in some old songs (for example "Don't Fence Me In") about western/cowboy life, but is not a common word today for most people.
A lot of the phrases you'll see in that book are very regional and time-specific. If you used them in present-day Canadian/US city, people would think you were joking or deliberately speaking in an old-fashioned way.
I think you are also asking about the phrase "There is more to it than this."
Whether this is good or bad depends on context. It means, there is more explanation needed, or there is something else going on that is not immediately obvious. I think in most cases where this would be used in a story, what will follow is a plot twist, something unexpected which may be a further problem to solve, or a surprise about a character's secret motives. (So maybe it's more likely to be something a bit bad?)
Examples: "She wants to buy the house. But there is more to it than this. She is hoping to demolish the house and build a gas station."
"Edward said he loves me. There is more to it than this -- Frank also said he loves me! I don't know what to do!"
"Sally will inherit the whole estate. But I suspect there is more to it than this, we need to look in her uncle's will to discover the full story."
posted by LobsterMitten at 11:06 AM on June 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
"He's really good at training dogs, in my opinion."
"I would rather train wild horses, even dealing with two on my only day off, than try to train those dogs."
posted by TooFewShoes at 11:32 AM on June 11, 2011 [5 favorites]
"I would rather train wild horses, even dealing with two on my only day off, than try to train those dogs."
posted by TooFewShoes at 11:32 AM on June 11, 2011 [5 favorites]
There is more to it than this.
This means that the situation is more complicated than it seems. More information is necessary to really understand what is going on. It doesn't have anything to do with what happens next.
posted by Wordwoman at 12:12 PM on June 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
This means that the situation is more complicated than it seems. More information is necessary to really understand what is going on. It doesn't have anything to do with what happens next.
posted by Wordwoman at 12:12 PM on June 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Having looked at the section you are reading, I see that this book has even more old-fashioned writing than I remembered. I think that even many native English speakers would not understand some of the phrases in the book. (I have taught university students in the US and can guarantee that many of them would have trouble parsing some of the sentences I'm seeing in that book.) So don't feel bad if you are having trouble with it!
First of all, it uses old-fashioned meanings of words. For example, the sentences "He whirled over, fetching the ground on his back and side" or "Buck described a complete circle in the air" use meanings of "fetch" and "describe" that are not common today.
Second of all, it uses regional dialect and idioms heavily. Even at the time the book was written, the regional dialect would have been unfamiliar to many readers - it would have added an exciting feeling of adventure in a far-away place, for readers in the cities of North America who would never have been out to the rough frontier. For example, druther and cayuse; also "be a good dog and all'l go well and the goose hang high; be a bad dog and I'll whale the stuffin' out of ya"... I've never heard the phrase "the goose hang high" but from context it's clear that it means "all will go well", "if you're obedient, I will not hit you anymore". "Whale the stuffing out of you" is another": to "whale" means to hit repeatedly, and the "stuffing" ia metaphor, like a stuffed toy being hit hard enough to split the fabric covering and let the stuffing spill out - so "to whale the stuffing out of you" means to "hit you very hard".
Good luck with the book, and don't get discouraged. It's an enjoyable adventure story but contains a lot of difficult vocabulary and idioms!
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:43 PM on June 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
First of all, it uses old-fashioned meanings of words. For example, the sentences "He whirled over, fetching the ground on his back and side" or "Buck described a complete circle in the air" use meanings of "fetch" and "describe" that are not common today.
Second of all, it uses regional dialect and idioms heavily. Even at the time the book was written, the regional dialect would have been unfamiliar to many readers - it would have added an exciting feeling of adventure in a far-away place, for readers in the cities of North America who would never have been out to the rough frontier. For example, druther and cayuse; also "be a good dog and all'l go well and the goose hang high; be a bad dog and I'll whale the stuffin' out of ya"... I've never heard the phrase "the goose hang high" but from context it's clear that it means "all will go well", "if you're obedient, I will not hit you anymore". "Whale the stuffing out of you" is another": to "whale" means to hit repeatedly, and the "stuffing" ia metaphor, like a stuffed toy being hit hard enough to split the fabric covering and let the stuffing spill out - so "to whale the stuffing out of you" means to "hit you very hard".
Good luck with the book, and don't get discouraged. It's an enjoyable adventure story but contains a lot of difficult vocabulary and idioms!
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:43 PM on June 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
Just to clarify for future reference, "druther" isn't specifically tied to "I". In other contexts, it could as easily represent "he'd rather" "she'd rather", "you'd rather" "we'd rather" or "they'd rather." Basically all you're getting is the " 'd rather," with the subject supplied by context.
posted by Ys at 7:06 PM on June 11, 2011
posted by Ys at 7:06 PM on June 11, 2011
Lobstermitten has it. I read a lot and the word cayuse is so unfamiliar I would not have known it was English without the explanations given here. I've heard "druthers" though.
On #2, it would mostly depend on context. Usually, it is said if the previous sentence was an overly simple description.
" 'Druthers' as used by Jack London here is a shortening of the phrase 'I'd rather'. But there is
more to it than this. The character's use of the word is one of the ways of showing that he probably lives in a rural place and may not have spent much time in school."
If you said something and someone replied that there was more to it, it could be a gentle way of saying that you are wrong, by saying you do not have all the information.
"If you like that girl, you should ask her on a date."
"No, there is more to it. She has a boyfriend and her mother hates me."
It could be said before a good thing too, but saying something is more complicated is usually either neutral or bad.
posted by tchemgrrl at 7:09 PM on June 11, 2011
On #2, it would mostly depend on context. Usually, it is said if the previous sentence was an overly simple description.
" 'Druthers' as used by Jack London here is a shortening of the phrase 'I'd rather'. But there is
more to it than this. The character's use of the word is one of the ways of showing that he probably lives in a rural place and may not have spent much time in school."
If you said something and someone replied that there was more to it, it could be a gentle way of saying that you are wrong, by saying you do not have all the information.
"If you like that girl, you should ask her on a date."
"No, there is more to it. She has a boyfriend and her mother hates me."
It could be said before a good thing too, but saying something is more complicated is usually either neutral or bad.
posted by tchemgrrl at 7:09 PM on June 11, 2011
Also, druther is not particularly common here in the southern portion of the US, but not unheard. What's unusual about it is the shift of vowel sound in "rather". The shortenening of "would" to " 'd" is a _very_ common contraction in English, and slurring it into another word is a fairly active grammatical form as well. For example, "he'd've" [he would have] and things like that show up quite frequently in every-day speech. Pretty much not seen in written form, though.
posted by Ys at 7:15 PM on June 11, 2011
posted by Ys at 7:15 PM on June 11, 2011
I doubt cayuse is English in origin. Probably a Western aphorism deriving from a bastardization of the Spanish "caballo". This is a guess, on my part - "caballos" = horses, pronounced "cabayus"; the B gradually dropped with use by non-Spanish speakers.
Funny. I read Call of the Wild ages ago, have re-read it several times, and it never seemed to be written in an odd dialect to me. Then again, I read more than most kids my age, and I did grow up in Montana, so perhaps some of the Western slang was just more familiar to me.
Hopefully not a spoiler - The only part that always confused me was the bottom dropping out of the trail. Didn't figure that out until years later when it suddenly dawned on me that rivers were used as highways year round, liquid or frozen. Then that part of the book made sense.
posted by caution live frogs at 7:29 PM on June 11, 2011
Funny. I read Call of the Wild ages ago, have re-read it several times, and it never seemed to be written in an odd dialect to me. Then again, I read more than most kids my age, and I did grow up in Montana, so perhaps some of the Western slang was just more familiar to me.
Hopefully not a spoiler - The only part that always confused me was the bottom dropping out of the trail. Didn't figure that out until years later when it suddenly dawned on me that rivers were used as highways year round, liquid or frozen. Then that part of the book made sense.
posted by caution live frogs at 7:29 PM on June 11, 2011
Per my American Heritage Dictionary (cerca 1980), cayuse is "horse, especially, an [Native American] Indian pony." Word origin indicated as being the name of an Indian tribe [the Cayuse Indians] found in the general region of the state of Oregon. This doesn't completely rule out the word having filtered in from Spanish, but does suggest non-Latin roots.
posted by Ys at 7:45 PM on June 11, 2011
posted by Ys at 7:45 PM on June 11, 2011
Response by poster: Thank you for answering my questions. I get a bit confused by two answers, nightwood and TooFewShoes. Nightwood says ,"He means that trying to train a fierce dog is harder than training a horse."And there are 6 foavorites there! Then "He is really good at training dogs, in my opinion.I would rather train wild horses.." says TooFewShoes,5 favorites there! When 'druther' means "he would rather", I think this phrase says that training a horse is harder than training a fierce dog.(So he is good at training a fierce dog.) But many people say that druther means "I'd rather". (Except for Ys's opinion?)Well, now my question is, training cayuses is harder than training a fierce dog?I wonder what the man really wanted to say.
posted by mizukko at 11:30 PM on June 11, 2011
posted by mizukko at 11:30 PM on June 11, 2011
I think the scene means this:
The two men are watching the dog trainer (the man in the red sweater) hit the snarling dog with a club. They have seen him do this before, seen him train other wild dogs to be obedient. They comment on his performance:
First onlooker: The man in the red sweater is very good at training wild dogs.
Second onlooker (the man with the horses): I agree. His skill is impressive, because training wild dogs is a much more difficult job than training horses. Training horses is hard work, but I myself would prefer to train horses than to train dogs, because training dogs is even harder. Thus I admire the man with the red sweater.
The whole encounter is brutal - we see the man with the red sweater beat the dog with a club, and stand unafraid as the big dog snarls and bites. (The men looking on say that they would not be able to stand up against a wild dog like this man does.) So the man with the red sweater is very tough and his methods are severe, and this is the kind of man who inhabits the frontier areas where the rest of the book will take place.
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:06 AM on June 12, 2011
The two men are watching the dog trainer (the man in the red sweater) hit the snarling dog with a club. They have seen him do this before, seen him train other wild dogs to be obedient. They comment on his performance:
First onlooker: The man in the red sweater is very good at training wild dogs.
Second onlooker (the man with the horses): I agree. His skill is impressive, because training wild dogs is a much more difficult job than training horses. Training horses is hard work, but I myself would prefer to train horses than to train dogs, because training dogs is even harder. Thus I admire the man with the red sweater.
The whole encounter is brutal - we see the man with the red sweater beat the dog with a club, and stand unafraid as the big dog snarls and bites. (The men looking on say that they would not be able to stand up against a wild dog like this man does.) So the man with the red sweater is very tough and his methods are severe, and this is the kind of man who inhabits the frontier areas where the rest of the book will take place.
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:06 AM on June 12, 2011
Best answer: Also, I think "druther" means "I'd rather" or "I would rather". Certainly in this context that's what it means. It does not mean "he would rather". (Maybe it could mean "he would rather" in some contexts, but the "I would rather" meaning is by far the more common and more likely meaning.)
In this context it means "I, the horse-driving man, would rather train horses than dogs, because training wild dogs is much harder and more dangerous work." It's a way of showing that even these two tough men (the onlookers) are impressed by how tough the red-sweater man is.
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:11 AM on June 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
In this context it means "I, the horse-driving man, would rather train horses than dogs, because training wild dogs is much harder and more dangerous work." It's a way of showing that even these two tough men (the onlookers) are impressed by how tough the red-sweater man is.
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:11 AM on June 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
Also, the comparison with training horses (saying that training wild dogs is harder) also emphasizes how strong, dangerous, and impressive the dog is!
Another way of understanding the horse-driver's remark might by an analogy. Here are two similar examples:
1) Students discussing courses they could take, might say:
"He's taking organic chemistry? I'd rather take calculus, from the hardest professor, at 7:00 in the morning!"
Calculus is difficult (and the hardest professor and early time slot are unappealing), but the speaker is making the comparison to emphasize that (to him) organic chemistry is even more difficult and unappealing.
2) "Her job is to work with politicians? I'd rather inspect sewer pipes!"
Inspecting sewer pipes is a dirty and unappealing job, so the joking comparison here is meant to emphasize that working with politicians would be even more dirty and unappealing.
In the same way, the onlooker is saying "He trains wild dogs? I'd rather train wild horses, any day of the week, and twice on my day off" - training horses is hard, but training wild dogs is the even more difficult, dangerous, unappealing job.
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:41 AM on June 12, 2011
Another way of understanding the horse-driver's remark might by an analogy. Here are two similar examples:
1) Students discussing courses they could take, might say:
"He's taking organic chemistry? I'd rather take calculus, from the hardest professor, at 7:00 in the morning!"
Calculus is difficult (and the hardest professor and early time slot are unappealing), but the speaker is making the comparison to emphasize that (to him) organic chemistry is even more difficult and unappealing.
2) "Her job is to work with politicians? I'd rather inspect sewer pipes!"
Inspecting sewer pipes is a dirty and unappealing job, so the joking comparison here is meant to emphasize that working with politicians would be even more dirty and unappealing.
In the same way, the onlooker is saying "He trains wild dogs? I'd rather train wild horses, any day of the week, and twice on my day off" - training horses is hard, but training wild dogs is the even more difficult, dangerous, unappealing job.
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:41 AM on June 12, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by dfriedman at 10:45 AM on June 11, 2011 [2 favorites]